Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Kerry in Talks Over U.S. Contractor Held for Murder in Pakistan; Arizona Couple Succeeds With Nevada Winery; Cutting an Overdue Budget; 'Disengaged, Lazy Whiners': Accurate Descriptions of America's Youth?; Dead Body Found in Cubicle
Aired February 16, 2011 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: All right, two people are killed, a suspect is held, witnesses are questioned, evidence gathered and one of the world's most important strategic alliances hangs in the balance. What is the story about? Well, it's a story -- it's our lead story this hour, Pakistani police holding an American contractor who admits he shot two Pakistanis to death last month in Lahore. But he claims it was self-defense. What's more, Washington claims Raymond Davis has diplomatic immunity since he was working for the U.S. consulate and holding a diplomatic passport. It's a trick story.
CNN foreign affairs correspondent Jill Dougherty joins me now from the State Department for "Two at the Top." Jill, how seriously is the government taking this? Why is this such a confusing story?
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, the facts themselves, Ali, are very confusing because exactly what he was doing -- Mr. Davis was doing at the consulate was not precisely clear. What happened in the shooting is not precisely clear. There's a lot of stuff that's not clear.
And then also, this hinges on whether he has diplomatic immunity. And the United States says the position that he had at the consulate carries with it diplomatic immunity. It is not clear whether the government of Pakistan actually buys that story.
And the real complication is that Mr. Davis is being held in a local jurisdiction. And so what the federal government wants is not necessarily what the local jurisdiction wants. And this has inflamed people in Pakistan very much. They're already angry about -- you remember the drone flights that have --
VELSHI: Yes.
DOUGHERTY: -- gone against terrorists, but you know, killed civilians. They're already angry about that. So there have been demonstrations about this, and they feel he shouldn't be let out.
VELSHI: This is -- and this -- you've gotten to the heart of this issue, and that is that while Pakistan is a major ally of the United States in the region, there are some people on the ground in Pakistan who do not like that relationship that Pakistan has with the United States, and certainly doesn't like it when somebody tied to the United States is accused of killing Pakistani civilians.
DOUGHERTY: Absolutely. And you know, just a second ago as we're sitting here, I'm watching -- my eye is on P.J. Crowley, who's in the briefing room. He was taking questions on this. And what they're saying is -- and the president -- you heard this yesterday, President Obama saying, We are sorry about the deaths, however, there is an international principle here and that is the Vienna convention that says people with diplomatic immunity must not be prosecuted in a country. And they are saying that it's practice by the State Department, that if something like this should happen, that the person who carried out whatever that action was would be taken back to the United States and there would be an investigation.
And in fact, the Justice Department has confirmed to CNN that that's precisely what's going to happen. It does not, however, according to an official we spoke with, say that Davis will necessarily be prosecuted. But there would be an investigation.
VELSHI: Well, let me ask you this. He -- there's a case being made here that Davis, Raymond Davis, is not a career diplomat, he's a contractor. The U.S. argues that he was acting in self-defense. But some in Pakistan call it murder. It seems even basic facts like this are in dispute.
DOUGHERTY: Well, exactly because as this happened -- he's driving down the street or some road, and two men approach him. He fires back. They have a gun. He fires back. And the question is, you know, Why did he have a gun? Diplomats don't always carry guns. And then he shoots these people. Then another vehicle from the consulate apparently comes up to help him, goes down a street and hits a man on a motorcycle. That man later dies. So it's very convoluted.
VELSHI: Let me ask you this. We have seen missions to go and rescue people, Americans, who are held in jail. We've seen Jesse Jackson, we've seen Jimmy Carter do this. John Kerry is over there. Tell me how that's playing out.
DOUGHERTY: Yes. Right. In fact, P.J. Crowley said that now Senator Kerry has just left, presumably on his way back. Senator Kerry went over there. He has, you know, a long relationship with Pakistan and with the officials, and he met with a number of them, including President Zardari. And essentially, his message was contrition, Sorry that this happened, but also pressing the fact that this man is a diplomat.
And the idea was, as Senator Kerry himself said, lower the rhetoric because it's very -- it's bad for the United States and it's bad for Pakistan because the United States needs Pakistan in the fight against terrorism, and certainly, the government of Pakistan needs the United States. So you could say at least the central governments don't want this to happen. It could be that there is this problem with the lower jurisdiction, which is controlled by the opposition --
VELSHI: Right.
DOUGHERTY: -- to the president of Pakistan. VELSHI: Complicated story, Jill. Thanks for staying on top of it for us. We'll check in when we've got more news on this -- Jill Dougherty at the State Department.
Let me bring you up to speed on some of our top stories. It's five minutes after the hour. One of three deputy U.S. Marshals shot earlier today in Elkins, West Virginia, has died. Officials say the three were hit by a shotgun blast as they entered a home while trying to serve a warrant. One deputy continues to recover from his injuries, and the third has been treated and released.
In Mexico City, one U.S. immigration agent is dead and one wounded after a brazen broad daylight attack on Tuesday. One official says the two ICE agents were driving between Mexico City and Monterey in an armored vehicle when they were forced off the road, surrounded by more than 10 people and shot. A Homeland Security official tells CNN this incident has the, quote, "full attention of all corners of the department."
Anger and violence is bleeding over into Bahrain today, a key U.S. ally in the Arab region. Take a listen to this. Thousands of demonstrators gathered for a peaceful funeral procession for a Bahraini man killed when clashes erupted during another protester's funeral. Bahrain's king addressed his country, vowing justice after the citizen's death. Protesters had initially demanded reform in the wake of the uprising in Egypt. Now, though, some are calling for the removal of the royal family. We'll keep an eye on that for you.
And an underdog is now the top dog at the Westminster Dog show in New York, 5-year-old Hickory. Look at that. Hickory made history Tuesday becoming the first ever Scottish deerhound to win Best in Show. Her handler says the win was a thrill of a lifetime. Dog folks take it real seriously. Hickory bested more than 2,000 other pooches to take the top title.
And the parents of Amanda Knox are now facing charges themselves more than a year after their daughter's murder conviction. In an exclusive interview, Knox's mother tells CNN this latest case feels, quote, "very personal." We're going to hear right from her after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: A new indictment has been filed against the parents of Amanda Knox. She's the American student who was convicted of murdering her British roommate in Italy. She was sentenced to 26 years in prison. Ever since that conviction, Knox's parents have been speaking out about their daughter's case. Now in an interview you'll only see on CNN, Amanda Knox's mother speaks out to our Drew Griffin about this latest charge of slander.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT: You know, as an American citizen, you are going to ask yourself what this is all about after I tell you. In 2009, the parents gave an interview to the "Sunday Times" of London in which they were describing an interrogation that Amanda Knox had described to her parents. The parents were relating that she was denied food and water, she was denied an interpreter, and that she was physically and verbally abused during this intense interrogation.
The police say that's just blatantly not true, and that is what this case is about. That what is what they are being charged with. Yesterday, I did sit down with the mother. This is what she had to say about this additional charge she now faces.
GRIFFIN: I mean, if you are looking at it as the Italian justice system versus your family, this almost feels like persecution, not prosecution, going now after the parents.
EDDA MELLAS, MOTHER OF AMANDA KNOX: Well, and I wouldn't say the Italian justice system. I would say a few people in Perugia, definitely. It feels very personal now. It feels like, OK, you're after our daughter, you're after, you know, us. Someone today commented on the radio it's almost like they try to wear them down. Maybe if we keep at them, they'll go away or -- you know, or go bankrupt or whatever. But it's not stopping us.
GRIFFIN: Will you?
MELLAS: Oh, probably eventually, yes.
GRIFFIN: Go bankrupt?
MELLAS: Well, you know, I think we've mortgaged just about everything we can mortgage. But there's lots of -- you know, there's been very kind people who have sent donations to help pay for Amanda's defense.
GRIFFIN: There is a new appeal in this case and a lot of hope because there is now a new judge, a judge who ordered a new look at, quite frankly, scant physical evidence in this case. That review is due in May, and then the parents will face their judge in July. So there is hope for a new appeal here. But again, you know, her conviction has been upheld by the higher courts in Italy, and she is serving 26 years in prison.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI: A hearing in the parents' case is set for July the 4th.
Proving a myth about the desert wrong. We'll tell you about one couple doing their part in building up America in Arizona right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Nothing like the American can-do spirit. A case in point, a real estate agent and his school teacher wife. They're now in the wine business, but before taking the plunge, they knew next to nothing about how to turn grapes into this drink that's been enjoyed for centuries. Who better to tell us this story than Tom Foreman. He's got their story in "Building Up America."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A few years ago, there was little reason for anyone to visit the small winery in the town of Pahrump, Nevada. But then Bill Loken, a real estate agent, and his wife, Gretchen, a teacher, and both from Arizona, showed up and took over. They had never made wine before, but after taking some courses in wine-making --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This little thing's called a wine thief (ph).
FOREMAN: -- they settled on a simple philosophy about how to build up business.
BILL LOKEN, PAHRUMP WINERY: We are hands-on in every aspect of the business every day, top to bottom.
FOREMAN: That approach has resulted in strong growth. In 2005, they produced only 100 cases of wine from Nevada-grown grapes. This year, it will be closer to 2,000 cases.
LOKEN: It's a myth that a winery does not belong in the desert because when you really look at -- most of California is a desert.
FOREMAN: Along with the grapes they buy from outside the state, their total output is impressive -- 8,000 to 10,000 cases a year, enough to employ 30 people, even through bad times.
LOKEN: We were fortunate enough to tighten our belt, watch how we spent our money, and we made it through without laying off one person.
FOREMAN: They're still small in wine country terms.
LOKEN: I think California has approximately 2,500 wineries. The state of Nevada has three.
FOREMAN: But whether it is the novelty or the quality or the personal touch with which they tend to their place --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Swirl that baby!
FOREMAN: -- today the Lokens proudly say business has never been better.
LOKEN: Business is up to levels that we haven't seen since before the recession hit, and we're back growing again. And so we think the future is bright.
FOREMAN: Tom Foreman, CNN, Pahrump, Nevada.
(END VIDEOTAPE) VELSHI: All right, 17 minutes after the hour. Let me bring you up to speed on some of the stories we're following here at CNN. One of three deputy U.S. Marshals shot earlier today in Elkins, West Virginia, has died. Officials say the three were hit by a shotgun blast as they entered a home while trying to serve a warrant. One deputy continues to recover from his injuries, the third one has been treated and released.
United Airlines bringing its long-haul 757s back into service today after grounding them for safety inspections that should have been done seven years ago. In 2004, the FAA ordered carriers to replace computers that regulate speed and altitude. United did do that, but it said it discovered yesterday that it failed to do follow- up safety checks, so it took 96 of the planes out for inspections. The inspections take an hour-and-a-half apiece. Most of them should be back in service today.
Senator John Kerry is in Pakistan, where a U.S. embassy employee is detained for the shooting deaths of two Pakistanis. The Pakistanis are outraged over the deaths. Senator Kerry, who chairs the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, visited Islamabad to urge the Pakistani government to release the employee, arguing he has diplomatic immunity. In a statement issued today, Kerry expresses deep regret for the loss of life, but hopes that the two countries can maintain a, quote, "spirit of cooperation" as this issue is resolved.
Hey, missions to Mars. (INAUDIBLE) music. Corporate sponsors are looking to cash in on the new real estate up there. Chad Myers is going to join me on the other side of this break to discuss space travel, the Aurora watch, and the weather.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: It's a wet and windy week for parts of the West Coast, rain and snow in California, up to two feet in the mountains, lots of rain in southern California. Chad's with me to tell us all about it.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It never rains in southern California.
VELSHI: Except when it does.
(LAUGHTER)
MYERS: Except when it does. And that's when it pours. There we go, Bakersfield, L.A. all the way down to San Diego, rain there. But it's the heavy snow that'll be up here in the mountains.
VELSHI: Yeah.
MYERS: Two feet easy.
VELSHI: Yes.
MYERS: That's at 4,000 feet. You get up to where the ski resorts are -- VELSHI: Right.
MYERS: -- you could see 8 feet of snow, and that's fantastic unless you're in it and it's coming down on top of you, and that's why we're always a little bit concerned about avalanches when you see this much snow all at one time. That's what we're going to see now for the next couple of days. It is a big storm. It is almost like --
VELSHI: Wow.
MYERS: Because the law was sitting right here --
VELSHI: Right.
MYERS: -- there's this funnel.
VELSHI: OK.
MYERS: It's like a hose. This hose is just pushing rain, more moisture, moisture, moisture right into California, and it gets caught in the mountains and then --
VELSHI: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: So the bay area is going to get it a lot.
MYERS: Absolutely.
VELSHI: Yes.
MYERS: Even seeing it today. Saw it yesterday all the way up through the mountains. And there that last map is gone, but that's OK. You get the idea. It is just this pouring on --
VELSHI: Yes.
MYERS: -- of moisture around the low going this way --
VELSHI: Yes.
MYERS: -- and that dark space --
VELSHI: Wow.
MYERS: -- there from San Francisco. That's a foot or more. And look at the size of this.
VELSHI: Yes.
MYERS: That's just not a foot or more in one county.
VELSHI: Yes.
MYERS: That's like the size of Delaware. VELSHI: Yes.
MYERS: So that is going to be great rain -- later on this year when it all melts off --
VELSHI: Yes.
MYERS: -- it's going to be drinking water for southern and central California.
VELSHI: Talk to me about Mars. Want to go off the radar for a minute?
MYERS: Do you want to have, like, the Velshi launch pad with the Myers rocket taking off to Mars?
VELSHI: I don't know how much you get paid. I don't think we're going to be able to afford that.
(LAUGHTER)
VELSHI: But they're going to (INAUDIBLE) I mean, I'm already fascinated when I take my shoes off at some airports that they're advertising on the bins, so I'm way behind this. We're going to be advertising on space-related things?
MYERS: Correct. They think 20 years from --
VELSHI: Yes.
MYERS: -- now, we'll be going to Mars.
VELSHI: Yes.
MYERS: They would like to sell that --
VELSHI: Yes.
MYERS: -- so you that could see the -- this is cute -- the Google Explorer --
VELSHI: Right.
MYERS: -- or the Microsoft Explorer rocket going up.
VELSHI: Right.
MYERS: They'd like to sell these to corporate sponsors the same way -- I remember when I -- well, we're close enough -- in Buffalo, New York --
VELSHI: Right.
MYERS: -- right? It was a stadium in Orchard Park, and they wanted to name it Coffee Rich Stadium.
VELSHI: Oh, yes, that's right.
MYERS: And Oh, we can't name stadiums!
VELSHI: Right. Now they're all named.
MYERS: It turned into Rich Stadium --
VELSHI: Right.
MYERS: -- and not Coffee Rich Stadium, but now they're all named -- he Tostitos Fiesta Bowl --
VELSHI: Right.
MYERS: -- yada, yada, yada.
VELSHI: Right.
MYERS: So that's what they want to do. They said, Hey, look, we're not going to get this much money from the government.
VELSHI: Right.
MYERS: Let's have some of these corporate sponsors do it.
VELSHI: Sure. They have money. Sell anything you can. Although these -- I mean, the only thing you usually see in space are the names associated with who's been involved, what countries have been involved, or the flags or things like that. So it'll be -- I think we can pretty much get adjusted to anything.
MYERS: This would be a 20-year process.
VELSHI: Yes.
MYERS: It wouldn't be just one rocket that has the name on the side -- there it goes, bye-bye. This would be corporate sponsor brought to you by --
VELSHI: Of the --
MYERS: -- of the something, something --
VELSHI: Right. Got it.
MYERS: -- something, something, something, something --
VELSHI: OK. I heard you talking about the aurora borealis.
MYERS: Yes.
VELSHI: Tell me about this.
MYERS: Big coronal --
VELSHI: (INAUDIBLE) lakes (ph). MYERS: I love this. CME -- coronal mass ejection.
VELSHI: Right.
MYERS: It's sun spots, sun flares popping out of the sun.
VELSHI: Yes.
MYERS: Brand-new one here, number 1158. This thing wasn't even around just a few days ago, and now it's shooting out flares, shooting out CMEs. It's now almost as big as Jupiter, the sunspot right there.
VELSHI: Yes.
MYERS: And so in the next 24 to 48 hours, we could see some interruption of satellites.
VELSHI: Yes.
MYERS: We could also see the aurora borealis (INAUDIBLE)
VELSHI: Does it mean anything? Do we need to worry about this when this happens?
MYERS: Sometimes. Sometimes. But there's no real warning on this one yet.
VELSHI: Yes.
MYERS: But this thing, this sunspot is getting bigger and bigger. When it has one that faces the earth and it sends one out right to us --
VELSHI: That could be a problem.
MYERS: -- that could be a problem.
VELSHI: Put your suntan lotion on.
MYERS: We're getting to the active cycle of the sun now.
VELSHI: Yes.
MYERS: We've been way down for the last --
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Sure, the active cycle of the sun.
MYERS: It comes and goes.
VELSHI: More immediate to my life, I'm getting on a flight to New York after the show. Anything I've got to worry about?
MYERS: It's always about you.
VELSHI: Well, I don't know what to say about sun ejections!
(LAUGHTER)
MYERS: Good flight for you.
VELSHI: All right, thanks, buddy. I'll see you in a bit.
All right, American cycling great Lance Armstrong is calling it quits. Find out why. I'll tell you why after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Let me catch you up on some of the big stories that you might have missed this hour. Hundreds of Wisconsin state workers are rallying for a second straight day at the capital in Madison. They're protesting against Governor Scott Walker's budget repair bill. The governor is expected to hold a news conference shortly to respond to the workers. Protesters say they are prepared to stay late into the night.
Senator John Kerry visited Islamabad today to urge the release of U.S. embassy worker -- a U.S. embassy worker accused of gunning down two Pakistani civilians. During his visit, Senator Kerry told officials that the worker, Raymond Davis, has diplomatic immunity under an international treaty and should be released to U.S. custody. He told local reporters that regardless of the immunity, the United States Justice Department will conduct a thorough criminal investigation into the shootings, and he expressed deep regret for the loss of life.
United Airlines bringing its long-haul 757s back into service today after grounding them for safety inspections that should have been done seven years ago. In 2004, the FAA ordered carriers to replace computers that regulate speed and altitude. United did, but it says it discovered yesterday that it failed to do follow-up safety checks, so 96 planes like this one had to be pulled for inspections.
One of the three deputy U.S. Marshals shot this morning while attempting to serve an arrest warrant in West Virginia has died from his injuries. A spokesman tells CNN that the deputies entered a home in Elkins, West Virginia, and were hit by a shotgun blast. Of the two surviving marshals, one has been treated and released, the other continues to recover.
The nation's second largest book store chain, Borders Group, has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. The government -- the company has also announced that it will close 30 percent of its stores, about 200 of them. . The news doesn't come as a surprise. Shares of the company plunged 75 percent in 2011 in anticipation of this filing, this bankruptcy filing. Since 2008, sales have steadily declined due to the recession and competition from on-line sellers.
Seven-time Tour de France champion Lance Armstrong has announced his retirement from professional cycling. This is not the first time he has announced his retirement. He did it in 2005, deciding to leave cycling. But he soon attempted a comeback. Armstrong's career has been marred by allegations of performance-enhancing drug use, charges that he has consistently denied. He wants to spend his time more focused on family and promoting the mission of his Live Strong cancer- fighting campaign.
Well, the sex scandal involving Italy's prime minister heats up. Now people are protesting in the streets. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: This is the biggest sex scandal to hit Italy in years. That in itself is saying a lot.
Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi vowing to stay in office until his term ends in 2013. He says he is not the least bit worried about his upcoming trial on charges of having sex with an underage girl and abuse of power. Berlusconi denies any wrongdoing, but a woman who allegedly arranged the meeting between the prime minister and the girl is speaking out.
Joining me to talk about the case that just about everybody in Italy is talking about is CNN International anchor and correspondent, my good friend, Michael Holmes.
This thing gets saucier by the day.
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR/CORRESPONDENT: Saucier and saucier. And it's just an amazing story, really. This is a good get by Dan Rivers, our man who's covering the story. Nicole Minetti is the young lady's name. She paints a different picture of all those parties she attended.
VELSHI: And Dan Rivers said what he described as wild sex orgies.
HOLMES: Yes. Let's say lurid.
VELSHI: Yes.
HOLMES: Yes, that's always a good word to use.
The Italian media played them up. There have been all sorts of allegations about these things. And as mentioned, the prime minister has been indicted for sex with an underage prostitute.
VELSHI: And that's not the biggest of the problems.
HOLMES: That is not the biggest of the problem. The woman -- that's Minetti there that you see on your screen.
VELSHI: That's not the woman --
HOLMES: No. That's Karima El Mahrough.
VELSHI: Right.
HOLMES: She's nicknamed, of course, Ruby the Heart Stealer, it's on her Facebook page.
The charge you're mentioning there was the abuse of power. That's for allegedly trying to get her out of police custody.
VELSHI: And this is her?
HOLMES: That's the lady there, Ruby the Heart Stealer.
Now, Minetti, as we were saying before, she's a former TV show girl and dental hygienist who -- surprise, surprise -- became a politician with Berlusconi's Forza Party after getting to know him. She's also being investigated for allegedly procuring prostitutes for Berlusconi, says not guilty on all charges. She did admit that she was called by Berlusconi the night that Ruby the Heart Stealer was in custody, and that he called and she called, and they had conversation.
VELSHI: All right. This story will not be going away.
HOLMES: We'll be talking about this for a long time. Yes.
VELSHI: All right. Let's take it to Bahrain where we saw protests on Monday about government reform. Somebody got shot. Then we saw at that person's funeral on Tuesday, somebody else got shot.
HOLMES: Exactly. Two dead. Numbers of people injured. It's worthy in all the sort of
(CROSSTALK)
HOLMES: -- it's worth having a look at Bahrain specifically.
Now, protesters took to the streets. They were initially demanding reforms. Now, they're starting to demand that it all gets turned over, that the monarchy gets turned over. Like all things Middle East, it is complicated, population of 1.2 million. Half of them are foreigners.
Now, it's interesting here, and I think it's worth talking about, the U.S. comments so far calling for calm, fairly muted comments. Not backing the aspirations of the protesters as we saw with the U.S. comments on Iran. Why? Well, it's obvious. The U.S. has major interest in Bahrain. The 5th Fleet is there, that is Washington's base in the very heart of the Gulf.
VELSHI: Yes.
HOLMES: It can monitor the movement of 40 percent of the world's oil that goes through the Straits of Hormuz. Keep an eye on Iran almost literally just across the Gulf.
VELSHI: Right.
HOLMES: Take a look at the geography.
Now, as with Egypt, U.S. policy has always been pretty much -- essentially, let's face it -- ignore or play down the complaints of locals if it's to preserve the stability in a country where the status quo of leadership suits U.S. interests, and that's what's happening here.
Also interesting to look up at the makeup of this country. It's Shiite majority.
VELSHI: Right.
HOLMES: It's run by a Sunni monarchy, the Al-Halifas. And the Shiites have long been complaining about discrimination at well. Not sectarian in nature so far. Interesting.
VELSHI: Right.
HOLMES: They're seemed to be on the same place.
The other thing to look at geographically, Bahrain is an island but it is connected to, guess where, Saudi Arabia by a causeway. This is interesting because a lot of analysts say that if this got out of hand, for example, that the Saudis may just step in, either behind the scenes or literally. And, you know, you've got a security force that is clamping down on all of this.
VELSHI: In some gulf state, particularly wealthily ones, like Bahrain, the -- a lot of the workers are not locals.
HOLMES: Yes, exactly.
VELSHI: Everybody who offers a service in these countries tends to be somebody imported from somewhere else.
HOLMES: Yes. You see that in Dubai, of course, too, imported labor there. What's interesting in Bahrain is the security forces who are doing the cracking down, if you like, most of them are foreigners, they're not from Bahrainis.
VELSHI: Right.
HOLMES: They're Sunnis that have been brought in from other countries and so, there's a bit of a rift between the locals and --
VELSHI: It's not sectarian but there are all sorts of things going on Bahrain that are worth looking at.
HOLMES: Yes, geographically important place.
VELSHI: Quickly, tell me what's going on in Libya.
HOLMES: Libya, a guy, you know, you've got a leader there, longer serving Arab leader or, you know, authoritarian figure if you want to call it.
VELSHI: Right.
HOLMES: There's been more protests there, a day of rage called for tomorrow. The clashes have been mainly in the second biggest city, not in Tripoli. But you've got Gaddafi, he's, obviously, concerned about this. And this is country that's had unrest before and has cracked down on it very, very seriously.
So, keep an eye on what happens in tomorrow's protest there because that could be a biggie to see how Gaddafi is going to handle that.
VELSHI: OK. And like Egypt and like Tunisia, we've got a full team on this. We are continuing to watch every development.
HOLMES: Absolutely.
VELSHI: And we'll let you know about it on CNN.
Michael, great to see you as always.
HOLMES: Good to see you, my friend.
VELSHI: Michael Holmes, you can catch him on CNN International.
All right. We're going to take a quick break. But before we do, I want to tell you a little bit about the spending cuts and fiscal discipline that we keep hearing about. What if it was illegal for the U.S. government to spend money? It could happen sooner than you think.
I'm going to break it down for you when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: It is time now for "The Big Breakdown." Today, that is an understatement. Call it a major breakdown.
One of the most important functions of government: allocating money. We and the rest of the media have talked for days about President Obama's budget proposal for fiscal 2012, but we're all getting a little ahead of ourselves, because Congress didn't pass a budget for 2011. Not a resolution, not a single appropriation for a single department -- all these books, all this effort and expense for nothing.
Since last October, we've been getting by on stop-gap bills that maintain funding at current levels. But the latest stop-gap expires on March the 4th. And that's where the battle lines are drawn.
Republicans who now control the House want to cut at least $61 billion between now and October 1st, the start of the 2012 fiscal year.
Here's a sampling of the dozens of cuts that they are pushing for. They vowed, by the way, to cut $100 billion in the first year alone, but since we're more than a third into the year, you do the math.
Here's the point: if Congress and the president cannot agree on this, forget the budget that the president is talking about this week. With very few exceptions, the federal government stops in less than a month, comes to a halt. Every box you see here is a department. Every one of these is a department that would probably have to turn off the lights and send its workers home without pay.
It's happened twice in 1995, and President Obama does not want to happen -- does not want it to happen again. Here's what he said about it yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've got to be careful. Again, let's use a scalpel, let's not use a machete. And if we do that, there should be no reason at all for the government to shut down.
And I think people should be careful about, you know, being too loose in terms of talking about a government shutdown because this has -- this is not an abstraction. People don't get their Social Security checks. They don't get their veterans payments. You know, basic functions shut down. And it -- that also would have an adverse effect on our economic recovery. It would be destabilizing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Now, as if this weren't pressure enough, a separate issue could also spell fiscal disaster. Very soon, the Treasury will hit its legal limit for borrowing money. Our national debt is just under $14.1 trillion. The limit is $14.3 trillion.
If Congress doesn't authorize a higher limit, the government can't borrow, which means it can't pay its bills. It can't meet its obligations to its creditors. Congress has never not raised the limit before, but this time, it could come at a steep cost to almost every federal program.
We'll stay on this story for you.
Every day here on the show we have a segment called "You Choose." We give you three-story headlines and you vote on which one of them you want to see me talk about. Your first option: a grandmother who gave birth to her own grandchild. Your second option: a secret recipe for Coca-Cola. And finally, a dead woman's body goes unnoticed in her cubicle at work.
Head to my blob, CNN.com/Ali to vote. We'll bring you the winning story in 10 minutes. Once again, CNN.com/Ali.
Well, an English teacher struck a nerve with her blog, calling her students lazy and disengaged. Her word may have put her job in jeopardy but she says she was simply stating facts. We're going to talk about it with our "Stream Team" after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Hey, it's time now for a Political Update. People keep asking and New Jersey Governor Chris Christie keeps denying any interest in a 2012 White House run. CNN chief political correspondent Candy Crowley, who has seen every one of these people deny and then run, joins us from Washington with a Political Update.
Candy, what do you think? Is he going to run? Is he not going to run?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Here's my guess, he's not going to run.
And here's the problem, people keep asking because here is the governor of New Jersey who was invited to come down and speak, but here he is in the heart of Washington talking about budget cuts, he's the buzz of his party, so he tends to kind of do things that lead to the question, are you sure you're not running for president.
But the fact of the matter is he's been as uncategorical as almost any of the people that we've been asking and it doesn't look like he'll run this time around. But that's the problem with no. I did a piece the other day, no has a shelf life, as we all know. He's not running this time around, maybe he'll run next time around.
Here's what we know for sure. He is an interesting and new politician, he's a new face on the scene. It's why the Republicans like him and why he garners so much attention.
Today's speech all about budget cuts, what we have to do to get the nation in some sort of fiscal order. And he talks about what he was doing in New Jersey and some of the pushback that he's seen. He recalled, for instance, going in and talking to a group of firefighters after he had announced in New Jersey some cutbacks that would in fact affect these firefighters and he got booed for his trouble. And here's what he had to say describing that situation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: Here's what I don't understand. Why are you booing the first guy who came in here and told you the truth? See, there's no political advantage to me coming into that room and telling the truth. The way we used to think about politics and unfortunately, the way I fear I think they're thinking about politics still in Washington, D.C.
See, the old playbook says lie, deceive, offiscate (ph), make it to the next election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: So this is a man who has gained the reputation, Ali, as someone who is in your face, someone who says exactly what he's saying. Has not made him the most popular guy in New Jersey among -- in some corridors, but it certainly has gotten him a lot of attention.
And today, obviously what better time to come and say, hey, stop listening to people who have been lying to you. We need to tell the American public what to expect and that is cutbacks in some places that's going to hurt. VELSHI: Yes, and New Jersey is one of these big states, like Pennsylvania, like New York, like California, with massive, massive budget problems. So whether he says he's running or not, this may be a more interesting discussion one year from now when we see what's happened to New Jersey.
If he has turned this place around or it at least looks like it's on its way being turned around, whether he runs may be less important than whether or not the country starts to use New Jersey as an example of how to fix our fiscal problems.
CROWLEY: Yes, and as you can see, he's a young man. You know, we have presidential elections every four years. So let's stay tuned and see how he does in New Jersey and see where the road takes us.
VELSHI: Yes, and I should say, on social media we're getting a lot of comments about the fact that some people think Chris Christie is making cuts that are too deep and hurtful.
CROWLEY: Yes.
VELSHI: This is obviously a debate that is going on in so many states.
Candy, good to see you, as always. Thank you.
CROWLEY: Thanks, Ali.
VELSHI: Your next Political Update from "The Best Political Team on Television" is just one hour away.
All right, here's a fascinating story. A high school English teacher outside of Philadelphia has been suspended for calling her students, quote, "disengaged, lazy whiners," among other things in her blog. Right now, 30-year-old Natalie Munroe is fighting to keep her job. She says she was simply voicing her opinion.
Listen to what she said today on "Good Morning, America."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NATALIE MUNROE, SUSPENDED ENGLISH TEACHER: I was writing it not about anyone specific. They were caricatures of students that I had had over the years, things that I would say if we were limited and canned comments that were allowed to write and things like that.
And again, it was partially meant tongue in cheek, obviously, for myself and my friends. It was not for mass consumption.
I'm sorry that it was taken out of context, but I stand by what I said.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: She stands by what she said. Let's get the conversation started. Here are the questions we want to pose to our Stream Team today. Was this teacher right? Are kids, in fact, lazy? What's wrong with her calling them out if they are?
Let's hear from Pete Dominick first. Pete and Steve Perry with me right now.
Pete, what do you think? Kids, are they lazy?
PETE DOMINICK, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, yes, kids are lazy. I think if we're going to generalize, yes. I think any culture, any generation, three, four generations of security and prosperity like in America, they are lazy.
I see these illegal immigrants and people from other countries, they work hard, they work all day. They don't make excuses. You see American kids, they're whining about having to read and they don't have enough video games. I have two kids myself, they're not going to be lazy, Ali Velshi. Not with my wife in charge.
But I'll tell you this about this woman. I don't think she -- she didn't violate any kids' privacy, that's one thing, it's crucial. I think it's beneficial to know what teachers think. I'm not saying she shouldn't be fired cause she said some pretty negative things, but just because she expressed her herself I think there's an argument to be made to keep her.
And lastly, I would say we should never violate any student's privacy. It's not like the kids chose to be at school or be in a classroom whose activity is, you know, being publicly reported. That's unacceptable.
VELSHI: All right, let me tell you a bit about what Natalie Munroe said. Steve Perry, listen to this.
Quote, "There are serious problems with our education system today -- with the way that schools and school districts and students and parents take teachers who enter the education field full of life and hope and a desire to change the world and positively impact kids and beat the life out of them and villainize them and blame them for everything -- and those need to be brought to light. If this scandal opens the door for that conversation, so be it. Let that conversation begin."
Steve Perry, your reaction.
DR. STEVE PERRY, CNN EDUCATION CONTRIBUTOR: I don't know that kids are lazy. I work with children every single day and children learn what they want to learn when they have engaged instructors. So they're not necessarily lazy. What they are often is unmotivated by the people in front of them.
Second, just because you have a right to say something doesn't mean that you should. Sometimes judgment has to come into play. Even in this industry, in the media industry, we learned that if you say something about your boss, it will get you jammed up.
Focus on what's important. Get out there -- yes, you can express your opinion and say what you want to say about life. But when you are a teacher and people can pretty much know who's in your classroom and you say things like the trash company is hiring, I think you're going a little too far.
VELSHI: All right, Pete --
DOMINICK: One question -- I have one question, if I could, Ali. I love Steve, I'm really impressed with what he's done with school, his career, but when he said they are not motivated by people in front of them, Steve, are you talking about the teachers or the parents?
Isn't there something to be said -- teachers get bashed all the time. I think that's unfair. We as parents need to do better and that's hard because sometimes we don't have enough time because we're working so much.
I'd be interested to hear Steve's comment on that.
PERRY: OK. What I think is the teachers are in the job to teach. They're in the job to teach children how to do things.
Parents can do something different. What we expect of parents is that you participate. Not that you're responsible for teaching a child chemistry or math, but you participate in their life. You come to some of their games, you help them with their homework where you can.
But the responsibility for teaching and learning is on me. We are the instructors.
DOMINICK: I'm glad I'm off the hook for having to teach my kids chemistry or math, Ali Velshi.
VELSHI: But, Pete, you're not off the hook about discipline, about rigor, about whether or not your kids are or are not lazy. I mean, I'm not sure, I have to tell you, my kids just seem to be working endlessly. I certainly did not have their workload when I was a kid. So I don't know if kids can be categorized as lazy.
What do you think about Steve's point about engagement, Pete?
DOMINICK: I think that's fair. It's tough to make that generalization and I almost regret that I did seeing as that, you know, Steve here, he works with kids every day and he sees it.
I guess I'm talking about our culture, America, versus some of the other countries and the way they value education and the way unfortunately I think we value pop culture the way they value education, and I think that's a general problem.
VELSHI: Steve, what you think about that?
PERRY: I think, to one of his earlier points, it's important that we do look at the fact that there are people from other countries and come in here and they're beating the pants off our kids. They don't know English when they get here, but they doggone sure know it when they go to become the valedictorian of the class. There is something to be said about very often parents, this is a challenge that I find with many parents, when they say that we're giving them too much homework and we're working them too hard. Clearly we're not, because when you look at the report card that America has on itself in science alone, 72 percent of our fourth graders are performing at basic in science. So clearly we're not working them too hard.
VELSHI: Well, maybe we're not working them right, though, Steve. You've made this point before, that maybe we shouldn't just back up the truck and pile them with homework. Maybe we're not teaching them the right things.
PERRY: I absolutely agree with that. What the challenge that we have is that educators need to be impassioned. They need to be individuals who are standing up in the front of the class because a great teacher is like a phenomenal salesman. I got that chemistry, you need that chemistry, like come on over here and get this.
When you are up there and you're on fire, the kids want to know what you have to say. And if you walk by a class in which the children are engaged, they lean forward like there's a secret, like there's something that they want to hear. And that's where we're losing it because we don't have enough inspired individuals at the front of the classroom.
VELSHI: See, like I leaned --
(CROSSTALK)
DOMINICK: But you could be the most motivated teacher in the world -- what if your classes are too big? If you're the greatest teacher and you've got 35 kids, what are we going to do there?
VELSHI: That's a different topic for another day. So you hold on to that for a second, Pete. We're going to have that topic, that discussion very separately.
Pete Dominick and Steve Perry, great to see both you guys. Two handsome guys, one with a better hair cut than the other one.
(LAUGHTER)
VELSHI: All right, we're still taking your votes on the "You Choose" story of the day. You can choose from a grandmother that gave birth to her own grandchild, the secret formula for Coca-Cola or the body of a dead woman going unnoticed in her cubicle at work. Head to my blog, CNN.com/Ali, to vote.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: OK, it's time for our "You Choose" segment where we asked you to vote on the news. A whole lot of people ask me why do we bother doing this? Because we want to know what you think and you always puzzle me. I was sure you wanted to know about the secret Coca-Cola recipe, but that's not the one that won. The winner, the body of the woman found in her cubicle at work.
Fifty-one-year-old Rebecca Wells went to work on Friday and died while sitting at her desk. No one noticed until Saturday afternoon. A security guard found Wells slumped in her chair at the L.A. County Department of Internal Service. Authorities don't know the exact time of her death, but say she had been dead a full day. They also don't know how the woman died, but authorities don't suspect foul play.
By the way, for the stories that didn't win, we'll post the stories about the grandmother giving birth to her own grandchildren and, I can't believe this, nobody wants to know about the Coca-Cola recipe? It's on my blog, CNN.com/Ali. Try it out and let me know whether it worked for you.
Time now for "The XYZ of It."
In 1988, the income of the average American taxpayer was $33,400, adjusted for inflation. Twenty years later, in 2008, average income was $33,000. That's $400 less. And the top 1 percent of Americans, those who earn more than $380,000 a year, have seen their incomes grow 33 percent over the same period over 20 years.
The rich are getting richer because they tend to be highly educated with more marketable skills in today's knowledge-based job market. The rich also supplement their income with investments in the stock market. And despite the blip of the last few years, people who have stayed invested in the S&P 500 have seen a 1,300 percent return over the past few decades.
But if your money just comes from a paycheck, you haven't been as lucky. While technological innovations reduce costs and made big profits for American companies and their shareholders, they have hurt many American workers who lost their jobs because of automation or outsourcing to countries with lower labor costs.
Unions, too, have lost much of their clout over the past two decades. One former chief economist from the Department of Labor says that has hurt wages.
So has America ceased to be the land of opportunity? I don't think so, but it has changed. We've moved from being an industrial powerhouse into a services economy and now we're evolving into being a knowledge-based economy in which a highly educated workforce with real technical skills will be the growth engine of the future. That means if Americans want to get ahead in this world, education and training are more important than ever.
That's it for me. Brooke Baldwin takes it from here.
