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State Workers Protest in Wisconsin; Bahrain Crackdown; One Adopted Child Found Dead, Another Burned With Acid By Adopted Parent; Violence Continues Along Mexico-Texas Border; University in Tennessee Cuts Tuition; Protests Continue in Wisconsin Against State Government Bill
Aired February 17, 2011 - 14:56 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Back now to our breaking news coming out of Wisconsin. We told you about Democrats supposedly abandoning the state, leaving, not showing up for work today. That was told to us just a short time ago by the Republican assembly leader, Representative Jeff Fitzgerald.
Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF FITZGERALD (R), SPEAKER, WISCONSIN ASSEMBLY (via telephone): The rumor is that they left the state actually.
LEMON: So that there won't have to be a vote on this bill?
FITZGERALD: No, there will be a vote. But you know, if they don't show up for work here real soon, you know, the issue could be forced.
Obviously, there's a call at the house put in place is what it's called, and that is put out to law enforcement to go retrieve those senators have left and bring them back to the chambers to vote.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
LEMON: Again, Jeff Fitzgerald, he is the Republican assembly leader there.
Joining us now on the phone is Graeme Zielinski, communicates director for the Wisconsin Democrat Party.
So listen, I spoke with Mike Browne just a short time ago and he's a communications director for one of your colleagues. He's saying he hasn't seen a Democrat in the building, he hasn't heard from his boss.
What do you know? Where are the Democrats?
GRAEME ZIELINSKI, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, WISCONSIN DEM. PARTY (via telephone): Well, I will assume they're in this hemisphere, but there is no quorum (ph), there are no Senate Democrats in the capitol. LEMON: OK, listen, seriously, I mean, this is very serious when it comes to the budget and whether or not some things like this will happen around the country. You know, "He's in the hemisphere." We want to be serious here.
Where are these Democrats? Do you know where these people are, Graeme?
ZIELINSKI: Nope. I do not. I do not know.
But you're right, this is deadly serious. This is an all-out assault on the working families of Wisconsin. Working families of America. This is deadly serious, you're correct.
LEMON: Yes. Did you know anything about this plan, either from someone, your boss, either from other colleagues? Did you hear a whisper or hint about this plan before it happened today?
ZIELINSKI: Well, look, I mean, we all know the Senate rules. We all know --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Did you hear about this plan before it happened today?
ZIELINSKI: Nope. Did not.
LEMON: You didn't hear about it?
ZIELINSKI: I did not.
LEMON: Have you spoken to any Democrats today?
ZIELINSKI: I speak to lots of Democrats.
LEMON: Have you spoken to any of the Democrats that are in the Senate, any of the 14 Democrats who are not at work today?
ZIELINSKI: I have not, no.
LEMON: And you have no idea where they are?
ZIELINSKI: I have no idea where they are. No, I do not.
LEMON: OK. So then you don't know where they are. It's a representative government. These senators represent the people. Shouldn't the people at least be allowed, you know, a modicum of respect --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Hang on -- to know where their leaders are, Graeme. Even if you don't like what the governor is proposing, shouldn't they know where their leaders are? Shouldn't their leaders be held accountable?
ZIELINSKI: The leaders should be held accountable. What we're talking about here was never discussed in the election in the context of the election. The pending seven decades of collective bargaining for public employees was never discussed by Scott Walker or the Republicans when they were in for office in November.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Graeme, Graeme, Graeme, that's politics. The president said he would close Guantanamo Bay the first year. Now we're hearing today that it's looking unlikely. That's politics. That what happens when people are running. They make promises that they can't keep or they don't talk about things that may happen. That's politics.
So again, as a communications director, the representative government, shouldn't these people know where their leaders are? Shouldn't they it be held accountable regardless of if they like what the governor and the Republicans are proposing or not?
ZIELINSKI: I guess I don't understand your question. You're saying that they're not accountable because -- because why? I'm sorry, I don't get your point.
LEMON: Because -- because people may be trying to get in touch with them. There is a vote scheduled for today. They're not at work where they should be. The people who elected them, elected them to go to work and to deal with things like this, and they're not there.
ZIELINSKI: And I guarantee you they're working on behalf of people that they represent. I guarantee you that every single one of those senators is working hard on behalf of the working families in their district.
LEMON: Have you -- so you haven't spoken to anyone. Have you tried to call anyone? Have you tried to e-mail anyone? Have you tried to text anyone?
ZIELINSKI: No, it's not my place. I work for the state party. I don't work for the Senate Democrats. But, you know, that's -- they have -- they have -- there are no Senate Democrats in the capitol. There is no quorum.
LEMON: OK. So you haven't communicated with them.
Have you spoken to any of the people, the Democrats or Republicans or independents who elected these Democratic senators? Have you spoken to anybody? Has anybody called the office to say, hey, what's going on?
ZIELINSKI: Absolutely.
LEMON: And what are they saying to you?
ZIELINSKI: Absolutely.
Look, this bill that Scott Walker is proposing is so damaging to the state of Wisconsin, it's so damaging to the future of the state of Wisconsin, people are mad. I'm here looking at the capitol right now. There's tens of thousands of people who came out, tens of thousands of workers who have come out to speak against this bill.
This is important for working families in Wisconsin. It's a massive power grab by a governor who didn't talk about this during the campaign. And it totally shifts the balance between corporations and the middle class here in Wisconsin. This is dead serious stuff. And this is the front line of a larger conversation we're having nationally about who's going to rule, corporations or working people. So, that's what's going on here in Wisconsin.
LEMON: OK.
So, listen, you're a communications director. So you should know. You should be versed in politics. What is the strategy behind Democrats doing this? What do they hope to accomplish by doing this?
ZIELINSKI: Look, this bill is bad news for the state of Wisconsin.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I said what do they hope to accomplish by doing this?
ZIELINSKI: You would have to ask them. I don't -- I don't speak for the elected members of the Wisconsin Senate.
LEMON: Yes, you do. You're the communications director, Graeme. You do speak for them.
(CROSSTALK)
ZIELINSKI: No, for the state party, for the Democratic Party of Wisconsin, not for 14 Senate Democrats.
LEMON: OK. Aren't they part of the Democratic Party?
ZIELINSKI: Absolutely.
LEMON: You can't venture a guess what they're hoping to achieve by this? I hate to be so hard on you, but I think it's really an important story. And the people need some straight answers.
ZIELINSKI: I'm sorry. Your question is?
LEMON: I said --
ZIELINSKI: What do they hope to achieve?
LEMON: Yes.
ZIELINSKI: Well, I hope they -- this bill is being ramrodded through. What I suppose they hope to achieve is have some deliberation about this bill and what it means for the state of Wisconsin. There's no need for this now.
This is not -- is not -- this wasn't required. This wasn't -- any collective bargaining taking away rights for workers all across the state, lowering wages for every single wage earner in Wisconsin, ending health care benefits, slashing benefits for every single wage earner in Wisconsin, union or not, is serious business. So --
LEMON: Yes, it is. But, listen, as I said, I'm not on anybody's side here. But there's -- is that a reason to run away from the job, because, as the Republicans say, as the governor says --
(CROSSTALK)
ZIELINSKI: They're not running away from their job.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. He's got a huge budget deficit, a huge hole in the deficit. And he needs to fix that.
And I understand the people on the other side who are upset by it. But I'm talking about the leaders here. So, is that a reason to walk away from the job?
(CROSSTALK)
ZIELINSKI: And ending collective bargaining does nothing to fix the deficit.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Listen, I'm not talking about the bill. We're not debating the bill here. I'm talking about the Democratic leaders who did not show up today to work.
ZIELINSKI: They are working hard for the working people in their district.
LEMON: How are they working if they're not at work, nobody can get in touch with them?
(LAUGHTER)
ZIELINSKI: You're -- we're in circle mode here. They are working hard for the people in their district.
LEMON: No, but I'm saying is -- you keep trying to feed me stuff about, oh, you don't speak for them or they're working when you're telling me they're not there. They didn't show up. You don't know where you are.
So, how can they be working if you don't know where they are and there's a scheduled vote and they didn't show up for it? That's what they were supposed to be doing today.
ZIELINSKI: Again, I apologize. You're going to have to ask them.
What we're talking about here today is a bill, a historic movement you're seeing right here in Wisconsin where tens of thousands of working people all across the state are speaking out against a bill that was never discussed, the specifics of which never were discussed in the campaign, which is being ramrodded through in record time with very little discussion by the majority.
And now we're -- well, we will see where this leads. But we certainly hope that the governor looks out his window and sees the tens of thousands of people that are marching against his power grab. And we hope for the best for the working people of Wisconsin.
LEMON: OK. So, listen, Graeme, will you promise me this, just one thing? Will you call some of those Democratic leaders, because I know you have their phone number, or e-mail them or text them and tell them to -- the people deserve to know where they are? And you tell him to call CNN and speak to my colleague who is coming up next, Brooke Baldwin, because I think the people deserve to know.
Will you promise to reach out to them and get back to us and let us know?
ZIELINSKI: Sure.
LEMON: OK.
LEMON: Graeme Zielinski, thank you for your time, sir.
He's the communications director for the Wisconsin Democratic Party. Again, we appreciate his time.
It is breaking news here on CNN.
Brooke Baldwin, sorry to go into your time there, but right in the middle of that interview. And you're going to be following this as well, very important story. Take it away.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Don Lemon, nice work pressing him there, because the people deserve to know where their state senators are, and the offer very much so still stands here in the next couple of hours.
If you're watching, wherever you are, call us here at CNN.
Hello, everyone. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
Let me just reset in case you're just tuning in here. Take a look at these pictures, teachers, students even prison employees, other state workers, they are marching on the Washington -- capitol. Look at them, thousands, thousands -- the state capitol, state Senate set to vote on a measure that would force these employees to pay more for their benefits, to eliminate their collective bargaining rights, all of this because the new Republican governor whose name is Governor Scott Walker, he is facing a major shortfall, a $137 million shortfall this year.
So that's the scene outside. I want to take you inside. I want to show you the pictures inside that state capitol dome where these protests actually began yesterday. Let's listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Kill the bill! Kill the bill! Kill the bill!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: They're frustrated. They're angry. So many teachers actually calling in sick again here day two for the second round of protests that many of the schools in Wisconsin actually had to close, shut their doors.
Congressman Paul Ryan said, and I'm quoting here, "It's like Cairo's moved to Madison," actually comparing his home state to that of the pictures we have seen over the last couple of weeks in Egypt.
And we're just going to go through all of this here in just a moment, in minutes here.
But, first, I want to get to this. There was a huge, huge show of force today in a tiny kingdom, an old-fashioned authoritarian throw-down in a place so modern and so liberal by the region's standards, it's actually sometimes referred to as Middle East-lite. Look at the map with me.
I'm talking about Bahrain. This is actually the place in the Persian Gulf where Michael Jackson went to seek calm. Do you remember this some years ago and to try to relax after being acquitted on those child abuse charges?
Well, let me take you to today. Early today, this is what happened in Bahrain's capital to demonstrators hoping to bring forth some sort of political change, just like their counterparts we saw in Egypt. Let's watch and listen. That crackdown -- that crackdown happened so fast, so unexpectedly, many of those protesters there were asleep when they were barraged with tear gas, rubber bullets, beaten with clubs.
At least three people were killed.
Nic Robertson is in Manama. That's the capital of Bahrain. He's joining me on the phone.
And, Nic, people were asleep. I imagine many of them didn't see that coming.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They didn't.
But government officials here say they gave them all warning, and the government says that it had to act because it was facing a sectarian abyss across the country. These, after all, are the mostly Shia Muslims, the protesters. They make up 70 percent of the country here. They're complaining in these protests against the ruling elite family, a Sunni Muslim family. That's where the tension exists, has been here, the sort of tension, for 40 years. And the people -- the injuries, we have seen people in the hospital here with severe head injuries, chest injuries, leg injuries, hit all over by tear gas canisters, by buckshot, by other hard objects.
It has come as a shock to both sides of the community here. The government says it's shocked and the protesters say they're shocked. And they vow to carry on with this -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: How long, Nic, did that show of force last?
ROBERTSON: It was fast. It -- this was a very, very well coordinated military -- security military effort by police, well over 1,000 heavily fitted-out riot police with baton guns, with shotguns, with tear gas guns, riot shields, wooden sticks.
These were many of the police force here recruited from outside of Bahrain. They appeared to have no compunction about going in hard on the Bahraini protesters here who were having a peaceful protest. This -- they were followed up, the police, in a 15-minute operation on this main place of protests (AUDIO GAP) with cordon after cordon. Hundreds of police vehicles swarmed into the area.
And then once the police had chased the protesters out, we saw convoys of army -- armored personnel carriers, heavy machine guns drive down the highways into the city to secure the area, very, very well coordinated.
BALDWIN: Three fatalities, as I said, hundreds of injuries, as Nic just outlined -- Nic Robertson there live in Bahrain. Stay safe. Thank you.
And not too far away is Yemen. I want to talk to -- Yemen -- and protesters showing up in the capital of Sanaa at Sanaa University to call for Yemen's president now to step down, but they found the spot was already taken by people who support the government.
See what happened, throwing rocks back and forth. We're told police did not try to break up this fighting you're looking at, but at least 20 people were hurt before those anti-government protesters left.
Yemen's president has been in office there for 32 years. He has promised not to run again when his term ends in 2013.
More protests, live pictures of protests, young people, older people in another part of the world a heck of a lot closer to us. These are live pictures from Wisconsin. And most of the anger there -- look at that, a couple of kids. Most of the anger coming from teachers, thousands of them. And now many school districts are shutting their doors.
So who will win this fight? We're about to start that conversation, at least get some answers there. And I want you to listen to this. College tuition is getting cheaper -- you heard me -- at least at one school. So could this become a trend? That's ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Back to this breaking story in Wisconsin. The tug of war in Wisconsin between teachers and state lawmakers takes a dramatic turn today.
Just in the last hour here on CNN, the Wisconsin State Senate majority leader said he believes many of the state's Democratic senators -- and there are 14 of them -- left the state on a bus in protest of what he calls the state's proposed anti-union bill. It's a bill they were scheduled to vote on today.
And now a turn in this breaking news.
I have Mark Miller on the phone with me. He is the Senate minority leader of Wisconsin And joins me on the phone.
And, Mark, where are you?
MARK MILLER (D), WISCONSIN STATE SENATE MINORITY LEADER: Yes.
We are not located in the capitol. The capitol has been overtaken by citizens who are outraged by this proposal to take away workers' rights and to undermine the human service protection that has been an important part of Wisconsin --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Let me stop you for a second, because I just want to get your geographic location. Are you in the state of Wisconsin?
We are located away from the state capitol in a secure place where we can continue to I think (AUDIO GAP) the people of Wisconsin have said they do not want to see this bill, which was only introduced a week ago Friday --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: I understand. I understand. But it is your job, as a state senator, you and 13 other colleagues, to show up to work today and take part in this Senate vote of this bill. I'm just curious as to why you didn't do your job, why you didn't show up.
MILLER: It's the governor's job to be a leader of a state and to engage the interested parties in any kind of dramatic legislation. He failed to do that. He failed to ever contact any of the interested parties, to work with our party. He is ramming this through in such a short time. And it is the governor who has failed to do his job. We're trying to allow an opportunity for democracy to work.
BALDWIN: Senator Miller, I'm just curious. Is this something that you or one of your colleagues thought about last night and decided not to show up 24 hours ago? How well orchestrated was this plan?
MILLER: This is reaction to the -- what the (AUDIO GAP) committee did in reporting this bill out to action on the floor, which was to be taken up today. That shows how fast it was -- this was being fast-tracked. And we said, this is too fast. Citizens won't stand for it. We're going to make sure that this bill has an opportunity for people to understand what's in it.
BALDWIN: So, I know that the state legislative -- the -- the Budget Committee, they passed that bill. That was after midnight last night. So, sometime between midnight last night and 3:15 my time here on the East Coast or I guess really this morning when you all were supposed to show up for roll call, someone decided that none of those 14 state Democrats should be at the state capitol today, correct?
MILLER: Yes. The capitol is occupied by thousands of citizens. And they are demanding that their voices be heard. And we're allowing that opportunity for those voices to be heard.
BALDWIN: And we're allowing the opportunity for your voice to be heard, because who knows who could be watching right now, including Governor Scott Walker.
And just tell me now, live here on CNN, what demands would you have perhaps on behalf of you and your 13 other Democratic colleagues? What needs to happen for you to return to the state capitol?
MILLER: We demand that the provisions that completely eliminate the ability of workers in the state of Wisconsin to negotiate with -- on a fair basis with their employers be removed from the budget repair bill that this is hiding under and any future budget.
BALDWIN: So, you say this bill cannot, which it is intending to, eliminate the collective bargaining rights, but perhaps you would be -- as long as they take that away and perhaps curtail the collective bargaining rights, you would head back to Madison; is that right?
MILLER: Yes. We will return and do our job, but the governor has to do his job. He has to engage in responsible negotiation with the interested parties. And he failed to do that, in addition to which, we want to have legislative oversight over the dramatic changes he's proposed in the Medicaid, Medicare, BadgerCare programs which are essential to so many Wisconsin residents in these difficult times.
BALDWIN: So, before I let you go, Mr. State Senator, I just want to make sure that I'm hearing you right. So, until you or one of your colleagues gets a phone call from one of the Republicans in the Senate or the governor that they agree to eliminate the elimination of the collective bargaining rights, you're staying put?
MILLER: We need to -- yes, we need to be able to enter into a responsible dialogue and not one that is such a sham.
BALDWIN: And what about the two-year budget? I read a number, $3.6 billion budget shortfall. What about that? That's a massive number, sir. MILLER: Well, it's only half of what we experienced last year at -- when the -- the recession hit like a ton of bricks on every state in the country.
And we were able to solve that and balance the budget when the deficit was twice as big as what this governor is doing. The economy is recovering. And the governor's completely ignoring the fact that we have a predictable recovery going on. The only thing that hasn't recovered has been the rate of unemployment.
BALDWIN: Well, I want to --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: -- too high a rate of unemployment.
BALDWIN: I want to give -- we want to give you your side of the story. I want to give Governor Walker the ability to call in if he would like to in the next couple hours to hear his side of the story and where he's willing to stand.
And before I let you go, before I let you go, Mark Miller, tell me again, where are you?
MILLER: We are located in what we consider a secure location outside the capitol. We are not all in one place at this time.
BALDWIN: Got it.
All right. Right. But he did say in the say the of Wisconsin somewhere outside of the state capitol. So I got that somewhere, somewhere in between. We will just leave it there.
But, Mark Miller, I appreciate you calling in. And in case something changes, in case you do get that phone call, call me back. Let me know. Deal?
MILLER: All right. Thank you.
BALDWIN: All right. Thank you.
MILLER: Bye now.
BALDWIN: Now, you heard that. That was some breaking news for sure.
I want to right get to Hillary Mintz. She is an affiliate reporter for us in Madison. She's a reporter with our CNN affiliate WISN.
First, what we just heard, where the state senators, at least we know where they're not as far as the 14 Democrats go. But do me a favor, if you can, Hillary, and tell me -- walk around for me and tell me who you see, how many people you see and what they have to say.
HILLARY MINTZ, WISN REPORTER: Well, this is another long day of protesting. Take a look at all these people around me, and people of all ages here. They have been chanting, singing, showing their signs all morning long.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
MINTZ: And if you notice, all ages because school is canceled today. The Madison schools and a number of other schools, they haven't been in school today, yesterday, because all of the teachers wanted to come out here and protest. And it's just state workers from all over, even firefighters here.
And I'm going to bring in --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Actually, Hillary, let me stop you.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Let me stop you. And I want to hear from that firefighter.
MINTZ: Sure.
BALDWIN: We're going to sneak a break in. I want to hear from that firefighter and hear what he has to say right after this break.
Folks, don't go anywhere. Breaking news here on CNN. Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Want to take you back to our breaking news. There are thousands of people, young and old, protesting in Madison, Wisconsin. They are furious about this bill that was supposed to be voted on in the state Senate that would effectively eliminate state bargaining rights for state and local employees. And that includes teachers, prison workers.
I want to go back to our affiliate reporter from WISN, Hillary Mintz, in the thick of things there in Madison.
And she was standing there.
Hillary, pick up right where you left off with that firefighter. What does he say? Why is he there in Madison?
MINTZ: Yes, that's right.
Well, Brooke, they just had a march down one of the main streets here in front of the capitol about an hour ago.
So, Josh Klug here, he is a firefighter from Merrill, Wisconsin.
So, Josh, tell me, why are you guys out here today? JOSH KLUG, FIREFIGHTER: We're over here to protest the governor's budget plan. Governor Walker's budget plan doesn't just try to solve this deficit in the state. It's busting unions. It's taking away collective rights to bargain, something that we have enjoyed in Wisconsin for over 50 years.
And we would like the governor to meet and come up with something that way, instead of throwing his weight around and telling us and dictating to the people and workers of Wisconsin how he's going to solve it.
MINTZ: What do you -- how do you describe the scene out here this morning?
KLUG: This is phenomenal. I have been down and involved in politics in the lobbying in the state, before I have never seen anything like this before. Walking through the state capitol and having people as a firefighters chant thank you was really humbling.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Hillary, let me jump in for a second. Let me jump in for a second, Hillary, because I want to though establish the fact that apparently this bit about the bill and how it would eliminate these collective bargaining rights for state, county and local employees, from what I understand, that does not include police, that does not include firefighters and state patrol.
So, from what I'm reading, that would not affect Josh, who we just heard from. So, given that, why is he still there?
MINTZ: Well, yes. I'm sorry. Could you repeat that one more time? I was having a little trouble hearing you.
BALDWIN: My question is, from what I understand, the fact that this bill would end collective bargaining for state, county and local employees, but that does not include, your police, your fire, your state patrol. So, from what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're there on the ground, that would not affect Josh. So why is he still there?
MINTZ: Yes. Can you answer, how would these collective bargaining and how would these cuts impact you? We have been hearing that they would not impact the firefighters union and the police union.
KLUG: That's correct. Originally, apparently, Governor Walker slashed and carved all the firefighters, cops and the state patrol from the original budget. However, because we are part of the AFL-CIO and we're union brothers and sisters as well, we didn't think it was right for the governor to single us out because this is about labor and it's about union rights.
And so we were proud to stand next to the teachers, sanitary workers, Public Works Department workers, university professors, whoever it might be, and show them that union does work and it definitely works in Wisconsin.
MINTZ: That's right. So it's all about that solidarity message, Brooke, is really what this is all about out here.
BALDWIN: All right.
Hillary, I just wanted to make sure we explain that, got both sides. And, like you said, it's solidarity. He is standing by colleagues.
Hillary Mintz, thank you.
I want to bring in Sam Chaltain via Skype. He's an educator and an organizational change consultant.
And, you know, several states are considering doing the same thing Wisconsin is trying to do here. Is there a better way to get this done? I mean, if you -- I don't know if you heard my conversation with that state senator, that Democrat. But there seems maybe a little bit of room for compromise, but not much.
SAM CHALTAIN, EDUCATOR & ORGANIZATIONAL CHANGE CONSULTANT: Yes, I did, Brooke. First of all, thanks for having me.
And, in case you're wondering, I'm speaking from a secure location somewhere in Washington, D.C.
(LAUGHTER)
CHALTAIN: I think the problem with this story is what we have are two wrongs that never add up to making a right. And the first wrong, as you mentioned, I'm an educator first and foremost, so the first wrong would be I would say some of the ways in which education unions have evolved over time.
There are some real issues that need to be addressed in the education community and in our unions. Whether it's last-in/first-out hiring positions or fact that in some places it's almost impossible to fire a clearly ineffective teacher.
So we can do better in that regard. At the same time, the last 12 months, despite being this -- having this unprecedented attention on education issues, almost like 2010 was the year of education reform, from Race to the Top, Michelle Rhee, "Waiting For Superman," but in a way, all we have been having for the last 12 months is a debate about labor law.
And that's important, but, to some degree, it's being presented as the whole debate.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: So much, Sam, though, it seems to me the linchpin of this whole discussion, and I feel like we were thrust in the middle of it when I was talking to Mark miller, the Senate minority Democrat, and he was talking about, it is not OK from his perspective to eliminate, totally eliminate the collective bargaining rights.
So, if you're speaking from the stance of a union, they're there to protect, for example, teachers. If you take that away, that takes away some of their rights. How do you stand on collective bargaining rights? Because I know you talk about reinventing unions, but that -- some would say that's a fundamental right.
CHALTAIN: That's right.
And that's actually the second wrong is the idea that the solution is to do away with collective bargaining altogether. I mean, the right to bargain collectively is not just a core American principle that's developed over time. It's recognized as a fundamental right in the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights.
If we think about some of our most celebrated heroes in American history like Cesar Chavez, they were union organizers. And some of the most necessary changes that have occurred over time have been because of the right or the power that comes from people collectively negotiating to address working conditions or situations that are unjust.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: But, Sam, bottom line, bottom line here, do you see, really, yes or no, from your perspective in Washington, D.C., is there room here for compromise? There are thousands of people who are furious over this. Yet, there is a multimillion-dollar budget shortfall in the state of Wisconsin.
CHALTAIN: There is room for compromise.
Part of the reason that the rally is, I think, so acute, although I think it would be an issue that would get people out no matter what, is because of the climate that's been created over the past 12 months, where I think because it's a simpler narrative, the reality is lots of educators have been demonized, unions have been demonized and there's almost this singular, monolithic narrative that these are adults out only for adult interests.
BALDWIN: Sam Chaltain, we'll have to wait and see where this goes together as we both watch these pictures. And what a story in Washington and so many other states across the country can relate. Sam, thank you so much.
Moving on, a child found inside a truck dripping in toxic chemicals, his sister dead in the back of that truck. Did welfare workers drop the ball in this case? And did you hear what the man accused of abusing them just did in jail? We have that answer and a whole lot more in a live report next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Just when you thought this the story could not get any worse, it does. I'm talking about the discovery of Jorge Baharona lying next to his pickup truck right along a Florida highway. Now, his son adopted son, 10 years of age, folks, covered in chemicals in the front seat. His adopted daughter's body in the bag in the truck bed.
Even more horrors have come to light 24 hours later. There were warning signs that something was terribly wrong in the Baharona household. They were so blatant even the seven-year-old granddaughter of Baharona's wife noticed it when she visited the house. I want you to listen to what that little girl said she saw.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. WALTER LAMBERT, PEDIATRICIAN: When she would go to this home that these children were in the bathroom, were being tied, but they were untied to eat. She reported that she talked to her mother about it who specifically told her that she was not to talk about this as well as the grandmother telling her not to talk about it, and they talked about that there were family secrets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Family secrets. Now I want you to listen what happened when Florida child protection investigators went to the Baharona home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you first went to the home the very first time with the mother, did you speak with both the children on that day?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you speak to either of the children?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I saw them. She kind of like hushed them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wouldn't that make you suspicious that something was going on?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, but your honor, they were not going to talk to me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, then you can go to meet them at school or somewhere else.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your honor, this was like Friday evening at 9:00.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I intended to go on Monday to speak to them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So we don't do investigations on the weekends? Is that what you're telling me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not allowed to do an investigation on the weekend.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Did you catch that? I want to make sure you did. We're going to replay that whole thing right now. Roll it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I intended to go on Monday to speak to them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So we don't do investigations on the weekends? Is that what you're telling me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not allowed to do an investigation on the weekend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Could that be the biggest horror here in that case, that a weekend visit that might have saved the lives of these children never took place? John Zarrella covering the story for us, day two in Miami. John, first, let me just ask the obvious. How is that little boy, the 10-year-old, today?
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, we heard today that he's still in critical condition but that he is in and out of consciousness. And when he's alert and awake, he's at least talking with the nurses and doctors who are there to treat him. So he appears to be doing better is what we are being told.
Now, as far as the medical examiner who has his sister's body, we are told that he has arrived at a cause of death. We do not know when that information is going to be released because authorities in West Palm Beach are going over that information in conjunction with authorities in Miami to try and put it all together before they release the information on what is the cause of death.
BALDWIN: Got it. What about the piece of sound we just played twice where the child protection investigator is heard saying she's not allowed to work on the weekends, John? That can't be true.
ZARRELLA: Well, today, the head of the department of children and family services here in Miami-Dade came out to clarify and gave us a timeline of everything that happened starting on the 10th of February. On the 10th of February, according to the department of children and family services, they got the call to the abuse hotline at 4:00 in the afternoon that said something is wrong at the house. You need to investigate.
At 7:00 that evening they go ahead and launch their investigation. But they say they can't reach anybody at the Baharona house in Miami. So nothing happens on Thursday night.
Friday morning, the 11th at 9:00, they call the schools to see if the kids are in school. They find out, well, the kids don't go to school because they're home schooled. So after that, they make more attempts during the day to find the kids and talk to the family at the Baharona home and not able to do it.
Finally at 9:00 at night that investigator that you just played the sound from, she gets to the house. She finally talks to the mother. The other two adopted children, remember there are four in all, are there, but she does not speak to those children. She sees them but doesn't talk to them.
The mother says the two twins are not there, that they're with her husband and that they don't live in the house anymore because her and her husband have separated.
On Saturday the 12th, investigators try to call the husband on his cell phone. They can't reach him. That's all apparently they did on Saturday. On the 13th, department of children and families talks to other members of the family who say Barahona, Jorge told them he doesn't have the kids, they're with his wife.
So they go back to the wife who says no, I don't have the children. They're with Jorge. So now department of children and family services says, the red flags go up.
Of course, on the 14th, it's all a little bit too late. They find the van on the side of the road at 7:00 in the morning with the body of the little girl in the back and the boy unconscious on the side of the road covered in acid.
BALDWIN: So bottom line, these investigators are allowed to work on the weekends, and number two, that there is a history here at this house?
ZARRELLA: Yes, there's no question about that. They do work on the weekends. This particular investigator probably didn't. The question of course, is, how much actually got done. You can hear the timeline that took place. Yes.
And now to your other question, there were other issues. In fact, before the adoption of the two twins, in 2009, they had lived in this house for four or five years. A guardian ad litem looked into this who worked with these two kids, red flagged it back before the adoption, said I don't think these kids ought to be adopted.
And today at the news conference where the timeline was revealed, the same woman who was the head of DCF in Dade County said, acknowledged in fact, they did have that information from the guard ad litem. Listen how she put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACQUI COLYER, FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF CHILDREN AND FAMILIES: She did. She absolutely did. But you know, in every case, there's going to be one who may say, you know, I don't think that this is a good idea. But all the -- all of the evidence, not evidence, but all of the information at that time showed these people to be decent people.
We don't know what happened. We don't know where the snap came. But something happened that just, you know, sent them into a tail spin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So obviously, John, still a lot of questions. And speaking of snapping, tell me quickly, what happened to Jorge Baharona in jail?
ZARRELLA: He was supposed to have his first appearance in court. He refused to go. He apparently tried to hurt himself in the cell. He didn't go. They still held the hearing in court, on he's held on $1 million bond.
BALDWIN: John Zarrella, thanks for staying on the story and keeping it all straight. I appreciate it. A lot more to come. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: I want to get you these new developments into the investigation into the attack of those two U.S. customs and immigration agencies shot in Mexico this week. First, Texas Congressman Michael McCall says it was a hit sanctioned by the Zetas drug cartel, not some rogue incident as some assumed.
The two ICE agents were ambushed Tuesday. One was killed. The second was wounded. The survivor has now been identified. He is Victor Avilla. He is not back in the United States. This latest attack comes as warring Mexican drug cartels intensify these turf battles right along that Texas border.
And in the second part of our series, Thelma Gutierrez introduces us to a sheriff who is digging in and vowing to take a stand. Viewer discretion is advised. Some of the images we're all about to see are graphic.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SHERIFF ARVIN WEST, HUDSPETH COUNTY, TEXAS: They just opened fire on us from across the border.
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sheriff Arvin West says there's a war going on just a few miles from his backdoor, a place he calls Mayberry.
WEST: This thing shoots good.
GUTIERREZ: He's warning residents to take up arms.
WEST: I don't care what the rest of the country this. I could care less. My priority is my citizens in this country. GUTIERREZ: He says several towns are now under siege by cartels who are trying to control smuggling routes into the U.S.
WEST: They will protect that load of drugs at all costs.
GUTIERREZ: From U.S. interstate 10, it's a quick dash to the border. In this high speed pursuit, deputies chase SUVs packed with drugs. One gets stuck on the Mexican side. The drug haul is unloaded right in front of U.S. officials who can do nothing but watch.
The sheriff says the cat and mouse chases to the border a few years ago were the good old days. Now entire towns have fallen to the cartels. They've unleashed a campaign of terror where hundreds of families have been chased out their homes, and their homes set on fire. Their enemies have been beheaded and dismembered and left in the plain view.
WEST: See this little village right here? See the rooftop tops way over there? The drug cartel run them people off.
GUTIERREZ: The sheriff shows us what he's up against. The locals call you this Jurassic Park against because it looks like it can keep dinosaurs out. But the sheriff calls it a joke.
GUTIERREZ (on camera): This is part of the international barrier between Chihuahua, Mexico and Texas. It's a 13-foot tall steel gate. Take a look at what happens right here. It ends and all you see are posts and some barbed wire.
GUTIERREZ (voice-over): In the last two years, three chiefs of police have been murdered in the Juarez Valley. The sheriff says it would be suicide if he crossed over the border.
GUTIERREZ (on camera): You have no law enforcement counterpart on that side.
WEST: Not anymore. The last one I had contact with, they cut his head off and put him in an ice chest. There hasn't been anybody stepped up to the plate since then.
GUTIERREZ: Sheriff West says there's only seven miles of fence across the border, 91 miles are wide open. Even though 300 extra border patrol agents have been sent here, he says a county road crew was recently shot at. Farmer Joel's land runs right up to the border and so does Gale Carr's.
GALE CARR, TEXAS FARMER: This is our home. This is our little piece of the American dream. You know, I'm third generation on this farm, grew up here my whole childhood. I have memories of going back and forth to the little town on the other side of the river.
GUTIERREZ: But now they say they can hear and see evidence of the violence against innocent families for themselves.
CAR: We could see the fires from here. What is it, a mile from us here maybe? One night I sat on the balcony of my house and counted to 120 and finally stopped. It wasn't like pop, pop, pop, it was pop, pop, pop, pop.
GUTIERREZ: Carr says he worries about family and friends who are there and says the exodus from the towns continue. More than 2,500 Mexican troops have been sent into the Juarez Valley. Even so, we saw smoke billowing from a home burning right across the border.
CARR: It's to the point to where I wonder why we're spending millions of dollars in Afghanistan when our next door neighbor is a fallen government basically.
GUTIERREZ: Carr says he's not a vigilante and he doesn't believe in militias but says if the violence spies over, he and the farmers are ready to be the first line of defense.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: Thelma Gutierrez with me now from Los Angeles. Thelma, the guy you talked to obviously said that Jurassic Park fence wasn't doing any good. He mentioned 300 agents have been deployed to the area to try to secure it. Is that making any difference?
GUTIERREZ: Brooke, it depends on who you ask. Janet Napolitano said recently our southern borders are more secure than they've ever been, and some of the residents told us there's no question they feel a little more secure with the presence of so many additional agents.
But the sheriff did point out that the county is huge. We're talking about 5,000 square miles, 91 miles that run along that border wide open. And he says, you know, consider the fact that these towns on the other side of him have fallen. He worries how long it might take for that to spillover to happen here.
BALDWIN: Thelma, these are great pieces. We'll see you back here tomorrow for part three. Thank you.
We have heard, parents perhaps you in particular, how colleges are charging a heck of a lot more money for tuition. But one university is actually making tuition cheaper. Coming up next, I'll be speaking with the man behind the change. There he is. He is good enough to join me from Tennessee at the University of the South. Could this perhaps become a trend? Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: We saw this story today and it made our collective heads at our morning editorial meetings kind of all roll back. There is a college out there that is cutting tuition. The University of the South in Suwanee, Tennessee, has just announced it is cutting fees by 10 percent.
In fact, here is a quote - "We believe it is time for someone to change the college pricing game." That is from John McCardell, the university's president and vice chancellor, joining me live from Nashville. Good to have you on.
JOHN MCCARDELL, PRESIDENT AND VICE CHANCELLOR, UNIVERSITY OF THE SOUTH: Thank you.
BALDWIN: What do you mean when you say the college pricing game here. We know costs keep going up. Are you suggesting this is a racket?
MCCARDELL: No, not at all, but for a very long time, I think colleges, universities, almost without exception, have been engaged in a financial model that is often described as high tuition and high discount.
And at the same time they have tended to think of the setting of their fees as a marketing as opposed to a financial decision. Well, we all know the economy has changed, and we are also discovering that families are more and more likely to be making their choice of college or university based on what they think they can afford.
BALDWIN: I'm sure some families are breathing a sigh of relief when they see this 10 percent discount, but I have to ask, given the fact you're discounting students for next year, what are you cutting to make up for the loss in revenue?
MCCARDELL: Well, we anticipate, at least if other assumptions hold true and since no other school has done this -- we don't know whether the assumptions will hold true or not -- that there may be a budgetary shortfall, but we will balance it through gifts, through grants and if necessary through endowment spending, because we believe placing a college education more within the reach is the right thing to do, and it's time to reverse this upward spiral, cycle.
BALDWIN: Suwanee isn't cheap, it's a fantastic private institution, but it isn't cheap. It still will cost will $41,000, so what about the families that can barely pay tuition at a public school? Is there any chance you're talking to your colleagues in other states that perhaps other universities, you being the guinea pig, might follow?
MCCARDELL: This will certainly make our university more competitive with the public institutions who are recruiting out-of- state students at fees comparable to ours. It will allow us to make financial aid awards to students based on need.
Part of the problem is that more and more schools are engaging in bidding wars, offering merit scholar ships to students who would like to have them, but don't need them. I think part of the solution of escalating costs is for us to call off this bidding war and direct our dollars much more efficiently to the students and families who need them most. That's a part of our strategy as well.
BALDWIN: John McCardell, again you're with the University of the South in Suwanee, Tennessee, I appreciate you coming on. Thank you.
MCCARDELL: Thanks very much.
BALDWIN: This may look like a prank because all you can see is toilet paper on the branches. I know none of this did this back in the day, right? But a crime has been committed to this tree, and in SEC country, police are taking it very seriously.
I'm going to get to that right after I check in with Candy Crowley about the breaking news in Wisconsin. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: We want to go to our chief political correspondent Candy Crowley joining me with the latest news crossing the CNN Political Ticker.
But Candy, before we talk Ticker, I have to talk about Wisconsin the capital protests are massive. I spoke just a little while ago with the Senate minority leader who was holed up -- he wouldn't tell me where -- somewhere safe outside the capital, along with 13 other Democrats, because they don't want to vote on the governor's emergency cuts. Why not show up and vote?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Because they'll lose. It's pretty much as simple as that. There's a majority Republican, and with the house in the Senate there, but more than that, as you noted, the crowds are getting bigger and bigger.
When you are on the correct side of the headlines, and that is -- what are we talking about all these teachers and kids out there saying you're going to ruin our schools, this is about education, cut corporate funds, don't cut this, the more that's out there, the more that's the headlines, the more pressure there is on the governor. Since they don't have the votes, public pressure really helps.
So really there's two reasons. One, just as a practice matter they're going to lose that vote, and two, the longer this goes on, they believe the more pressure there is on the governor to back down.
BALDWIN: All right, we're staying close to this story, more in a moment. But first to the Ticker. What do you have?
CROWLEY: Well, first of all, there seems to be sort of a pre- game blame game going on, if you follow me.
And it's -- it's about the federal budget, specifically about the 2011 budget, which hasn't been passed, supposed to have been passed by last October. We have been working since then, the government has been working on just stopgap spending measures that allow the government to keep going.
Well, now Speaker Boehner sort of ratcheted up the showdown with Senate Democrats and said, listen, if we can't agree on some major spending cuts -- they want to cut about $60 billion out of this particular spending bill, to make it permanent -- if we can't agree on that, then we're not going to be able to pass the C.R. We have to cut -- continuing resolution -- we have to cut the current stopgap measure before we will go for it.
So what do we have now? We have Senate leadership, Senator Reid, coming out and saying, I'm sorry that Speaker Boehner can't control his Tea Party Caucus, and now he is threatening to shut down the government.
And then you have Boehner coming back, going, listen, if the government is shut down, it's the Democrats they're going to blame for it. So there are several spending bills, as you know, up there, two of them at any rate. This is the one that will keep the government going until next October. So, huge battle, and we're already starting sort of the PR side of this.
Secondly, and I forgot to send you a card, and I'm sorry, but it is the second anniversary of the stimulus bill.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
BALDWIN: I will forgive you.
CROWLEY: OK. I don't think this will surprise you, but Republicans and Democrats have distinctly different views on how successful it's been and they are putting out those views in various forms.
The White House defending it, saying it's created millions of jobs, Republicans sort of zeroing in on vulnerable Democrats in 2012, saying, oh, and, by the way, here's the unemployment rate in their states, so arguing that of course it has done no good.
And finally a presidential poll, because it's never too early. There was one out in the Gallup survey showing President Obama, about 45 percent of registered voters say they would vote him -- 45 percent say they would support an unnamed Republican. The key here is unnamed.
When there's not a name to it, like if there's nobody, you can envision somebody really good. Once you put a name on to something, those numbers start to fall. But it's an interesting poll. It says more about President Obama's support at this point than about any relative support for a Republican candidate, because, you know, it's really hard to guess how the public would go for an unnamed Republican. You've got to have a name to it.
BALDWIN: Yes, it makes sense that the numbers would change once you have a name.
Candy Crowley, as always, lovely to see you. Thank you.
CROWLEY: Thanks.
BALDWIN: And, folks, you can always get your "Political Ticker" fix 24/7. Go to CNNPolitics.com.
