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Power Slipping From Gadhafi's Grip?; Pirates Kill Four Americans; Pro-Union Protests Take Place in Ohio; Rahm Emanuel States Views about Public Unions in Chicago; Libyan Leader Speaks Out Against Anti-Government Protests

Aired February 22, 2011 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. Welcome to this new hour in the CNN NEWSROOM.

And I want to show you some pictures, some brand-new pictures in to CNN here. Take a look at this. It's a similar scene being played out in our nation's heartland. No, this is not Wisconsin. This is in fact Columbus, Ohio, where a Republican bill that would cut union members' ability to collectively bargain could potentially be on the table here.

So, in this show, I will be speaking to a Democrat, a ranking Democrat, I should add, from that statehouse and also the governor of Ohio himself, John Kasich, joining me live in this newscast. Stick around for that.

But, first, I want to begin this hour with Libya's leader of 42 years, Moammar Gadhafi. He may still be in charge of his capital city, that being Tripoli, but listen to what he's lost, any semblance of control in cities in eastern Libya. You are going to see that for yourself in just a second. He has also lost the support of his diplomats. Several Libyan ambassadors are calling for him to resign, one of whom accusing Gadhafi of genocide.

But at least the question we have been asking thus far, where is Moammar Gadhafi, that is at least answered for now. He appeared on state-run television today and spoke for more than an hour -- there he was -- from a long-ago-bombed-out palace in that capital city of Tripoli.

He had a lot to say, urging supporters to fill the streets, to demonstrate for him. And if you listen, he also had pretty ugly names for the thousands of Libyans who are openly revolting on the streets against him. He said they were high on drugs, that they were committing a crime that will get them executed. And he said that he intends to die in Libya, in his words, as a martyr. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOAMMAR GADHAFI, LIBYAN LEADER (through translator): I have paid the price of my remaining here. My grandfather has fell martyr in the war before. I am -- it's not possible that I leave this place. I will be a martyr at the end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Now, after Gadhafi's speech today, we saw these scenes. Take a look. These are the scenes playing out on Libyan state television, crowds of people shouting, chanting in support of their leader, waving green flags.

Elsewhere, though, the United Nations Security Council met today behind closed doors. Subject? Libya and what to do about it, same with the Arab League.

And people we have talked to in Tripoli tell us that food is in short supply, the sound of gunfire fills the air, and Libyan security forces in some neighborhoods are shooting anyone who dares to move within that city's streets.

But, right now, do you know how many television reporters from Western news agencies are actually in Libya and reporting? One. One journalist. And that is CNN's Ben Wedeman.

Ben drove across the border from Egypt and is now reporting from eastern Libya, which is solidly in control of people who are loudly, vehemently against Moammar Gadhafi.

And for Ben's safety, I'm not going to tell you where exactly he is, but listen to what he saw just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We were able to go to the city of Tobruk in eastern Libya where we saw that despite what Colonel Gadhafi is saying he is not in control of the eastern part of the country.

There's no army, no police on the streets. The anti-Gadhafi protesters have been able to burn down the police station, burn down party headquarters, burn down the intelligence headquarters. They are in open revolt. Some of the protesters telling us they not only want to overthrow the regime of Moammar Gadhafi, they want to see him killed or put on trial in the international court of The Hague.

We also heard from some people that they have a plan to cut the export of oil from eastern Libya. Eastern Libya is where much of Libya's oil comes from and this they say they will do unless the massacres, as they decide them, committed by the Gadhafi regime are put to an end.

Otherwise the situation in the heart of the country seems fairly calm. Gas stations are open and some stores are open, although, clearly people are not going about their normal lives.

One of the big concerns here is that the Libyan Air Force which has been used against protesters in Tripoli could be used again in this area to punish the people of eastern Libya for trying to overthrow the regime of Moammar Gadhafi.

I'm Ben Wedeman, CNN, reporting from eastern Libya.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Now, I mentioned a moment ago the U.N. Security Council meeting today in New York about Libya.

And Richard Roth is at the United Nations right now.

And, Richard, my question is this. What have you heard specifically about that U.N. Security Council meeting and what about these Libyan ambassadors; they're making such disparaging comments about their own leader?

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: The U.N. Security Council meeting just started, second one of the day. It is very likely there could be some statement produced by the full Security Council that might call on Libya to stop its attacks on civilians and to provide more open passage for humanitarian aid, medical aid to get through.

As for the dueling diplomats, we may have an end to that. It looks like perhaps the 24-hour attempt by the deputy ambassador from Libya may have failed. Right now, the Libyan ambassador, who was not seen yesterday, has entered the council. And it's been announced early by diplomats that he's the one who's going to be speaking for the government.

He called Colonel Gadhafi of Libya a friend today. He was surrounded by reporters in a mad scrum when the representation of Libya seemed to be up for grabs. And he commented to reporters about his allegiance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABDURRAHMAN MOHAMED SHALGHAM, LIBYAN AMBASSADOR TO UNITED NATIONS: I think that Gadhafi, he's brave. He can make a decision.

QUESTION: But who's responsible, sir? People are dead.

SHALGHAM: Yes, responsible -- all the regime is responsible. I am one from the regime. All of us (INAUDIBLE) responsible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: He said that everyone is responsible in Libya, but he refused to pinpoint that Gadhafi might be. He said he tried calling authorities in Libya to ask them to stop the attacks on civilians.

But right now, he is the man representing Libya in a Security Council meeting regarding the violence in Libya. What's interesting, Brooke, is that this is the first real Security Council meeting after weeks, almost months of this turmoil in North Africa and the Middle East.

They do not want to get involved in these individual country issues until there's broad feeling, like there's a threat to international peace and security. It's a hot topic inside the U.N. on when to get involved -- back to you.

BALDWIN: Richard, I want you to back up just for a second because I think it's worth underscoring the point that you have the Libyan ambassador who you spoke with personally, and also the deputy saying very, very different things.

One is saying Moammar Gadhafi is a friend, the other saying he's committing genocide on his own people. So very different messages coming from the U.N.

ROTH: And it appears it will be a very uneasy truce between them to continue working. The deputy had the support of about 10 other people, diplomats, staffers, inside the Libyan Mission when he stunned us in the lobby of the Libyan Mission with Gadhafi's portrait right above him when he denounced Gadhafi and said he was committing genocide.

So, now the Libyan ambassador, who is a longtime political hand inside Libya, former foreign minister, he seems to be back in charge, at least for now, of the Libyan Mission representing Libya.

BALDWIN: Richard Roth keep an eye on that U.N. Security Council there -- Richard, thank you. And, of course, my thanks to Ben Wedeman reporting somewhere within eastern Libya.

Also, this today. Friends, loved ones, they are sharing dramatic new details of that rescue operation that came unfortunately too late for those four Americans on a yacht seized by pirates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NINA CROSSLAND, NIECE OF PHYLLIS MACKAY: My aunt was not dead when she -- when the Navy SEALs arrived on the ship. She had been shot. She was not dead at that time. And they did try to save her, but they were unsuccessful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: New details emerging this afternoon. In fact, a friend of one of those on board that yacht, that yacht named Quest, will be joining me in just a couple of moments.

And more empty seats that belong to Democrats. Look at them, dozens. Indiana, Ohio -- the number of states in the budget showdowns grows.

We are going to go live to Columbus there in just a moment. Live pictures, protesters lining up in front of the state capitol. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: First, you have the story in Wisconsin. Now labor unease is spreading to other states in the heartland. Case in point, this is Columbus, Ohio, unionized workers descending upon the capitol building there. Essentially, they say this, that Governor John Kasich is using the state's budget crisis to eliminate their right to collective bargaining.

I know. It sounds familiar. It sounds a little bit like Wisconsin. Well, guess what? Today, Democratic legislators are fleeing Indiana, just like they did last week in Wisconsin. Those empty seats you're looking at there in the chamber, now confirming reports we began to get right around noontime today. "The Indianapolis Star" is reporting that state Democrats are fleeing to border states to avoid this vote on an anti-union bill.

That is Indiana. We're watching that development very closely for you today.

And, by the way, union supporters are out again today in Wisconsin's capital, Madison, that protest now just about a week-old.

But, right now, I want to take you to Ohio. That's where our focus is for the time being. And that's where we find Deb Feyerick, live there for me in the midst of some of those demonstrators.

And, Deb, I understand you just talked to a major player in the showdown there in Ohio. Who was it and what did he tell you?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We did. And, as a matter of fact, he's on the steps now talking to this crowd, and this crowd is really behind him. It's former Governor Ted Strickland, a Democrat.

He says that the people here, the nurses, the firefighters, the police, the teachers, the corrections officers, they're unfairly being portrayed as the villains. He told us when he was governor that in fact he was able to negotiate with the unions, that they took wage freezes, that they took unpaid days, that they made concessions, they negotiated.

He says this is simply a power grab by Republicans, who control the legislature here in Ohio, and that, in fact, they're using the budget crisis as a way to dismantle the unions.

Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TED STRICKLAND (D), FORMER OHIO GOVERNOR: These folks are willing to work with this governor. The union is willing to work with this governor.

What they're not willing to do is to give up their fundamental rights to collectively bargain. And that's the issue here. As I said before, it has little or nothing to do with the current budget crisis. It has everything to do with politics. And that's why you see folks here today from police, fire, teachers, nurses, and ordinary citizens standing against this radical effort.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: And, Brooke, the Republican senator Shannon Jones, she said that in fact the state simply has no money, that they need to be able to put more control in -- to the city and town managers to do more with less. But when I asked her, is this going to save money, she said, well, no, it's not going to save any money, but at least it's going to give the municipalities the flexibility -- they're talking about flexibility -- to do what they need to do.

Folks here say that is completely anti-union and it will hurt the middle class -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Yes, and to your point in speaking with who was once the incumbent governor, he lost to the current governor, John Kasich. And John Kasich will be my guest next hour. We will drill down on what he has to say on this bill next hour.

But I want to get to the people behind you there, Deb, this demonstration today. I know it was billed as really a show of solidarity, a show of union support. Can you just guesstimate for me as we look at these aerial pictures how many people turned out at the state capitol?

FEYERICK: Well, they were anticipating between 15,000 and 20,000 people.

We saw a lot of buses dropping off union members, so probably just walking around the capitol earlier, there probably are between 10,000 and 15,000 people. You don't get a great vantage point. You're getting better shots from those aerials, but, yes, a lot of people here.

BALDWIN: Yes.

FEYERICK: And the reason is because there is going to be a 4:00 meeting where this is going to be discussed. The Republican senator says, give us your ideas, let us know what we can do, give us language. But so far,she says that she just hasn't gotten any.

So that's where things stand. Many people think that this is simply going to be jammed through.

BALDWIN: Deb, quickly, are the union workers there -- we know we have seen folks in Wisconsin. They have been out there in the bitter, bitter cold for seven, eight days. Are folks in Ohio willing to stay there as well?

FEYERICK: Unclear. Right now, this is a big rally. They're fearful that in fact this is going to -- the vote is going to be put today. Probably not, but right now this is the biggest rally that they have got planned to date.

BALDWIN: Deb Feyerick for me in Columbus, Ohio -- Deb, thank you.

And, as I mentioned, coming up, I will be talking to not just one, but two key players in this whole Ohio budget debate. First, I will be speaking with state Senate Minority Leader Democrat Capri Cafaro. That is in just a couple of minutes. And then next hour, I will speak with Republican Governor John Kasich. Now to this, though: Four Americans hijacked by pirates off the coast of Somalia are now dead. So are four pirates. So what happened? We're going to tell you coming up next. Also, I'm going to speak with a friend of one of the sailors who was killed. He actually received an e-mail from his friend just last week.

And less than 24 hours after that earthquake that devastated one of the largest cities in New Zealand, look at those young women, I will be speaking with a woman who lived through it and says, as you would be, I'm sure, she is still very, very scared.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Those four Americans hijacked by pirates in the Indian Ocean are dead. Their families, their friends had been holding out hope for this peaceful ending possibly to this whole horrific ordeal, but that is not the way it played out today just off the coast of Somalia.

I will be speaking in just a minute live with a friend of one of victim, Scott Adam. In fact, that is his wife there, Jean. And we're also going to hear from the family of the other two victims, Phyllis Mackay and Bob Riggle, who had join the Adams on their round-the-world sailing trip that ended so tragically today.

But, first, I want to get to David McKenzie, our correspondent who has the details about how this whole thing happened. He is in Nairobi, Kenya.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tragic end to a hostage drama off the coast of Africa. Four American sailors who were sailing around the world who had been taken by Somali pirates late Friday were killed in the morning hours of Tuesday off Somalia.

CENTCOM, the Central Command of the U.S. military, said that they had been shadowing the S/V Quest, the 58-foot pleasure yacht that had four Americans on board. They were moving by that boat both by the land -- both by the air and on the sea.

There had been negotiations going on between the pirates and the American Navy, according to CENTCOM. But somehow that broke down. And in the morning hours, there shots ringing out from the S/V Quest. They sent special operation forces to investigate. And this is what the vice admiral said happened when they boarded.

VICE ADMIRAL MARK FOX, U.S. NAVY: There were no gunshots fired from the boarding team as they boarded, none. And then, as they were clearing the vessel, they did kill one pirate as they were clearing it and then there was another pirate that was killed in a knife fight.

MCKENZIE: The Navy personnel gave emergency first aid, but they were unable to revive the four sailors -- a very tragic end to this hostage drama. There are around 700 sailors still held off the coast of Somalia by Somali pirates. And this problem seems not to be going away any time soon. David McKenzie, CNN, Nairobi, Kenya.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: As David mentioned, it's an issue that's not going away, the threat of pirates very real and deadly.

But, still, when it hits home and a loved one dies in one of those attacks, it's difficult to believe. The loss can be overwhelming.

A little earlier today, the niece of one of the victims, Phyllis Mackay, spoke about her aunt's final moments. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROSSLAND: My aunt was not dead when she -- when the Navy SEALs arrived on the ship. She had been shot. She was not dead at that time. And they did try to save her, but they were unsuccessful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: I am now joined on the phone by a friend and former adviser of Scott Adam, Clayton Schmit.

And, Clayton, correct me if I'm wrong, the last time you saw Scott was just about six months ago?

CLAYTON SCHMIT, FRIEND OF SCOTT ADAM: Yes.

Scott would occasionally -- Scott and Jean would occasionally park the boat in a port and fly back to the States to do some business. And I had been following their trip around the world and was surprised to see them walking around Fuller Seminary campus, where he taught and where I work. And we had a nice chat at that time.

BALDWIN: Yes. Apparently, they spent half the year I think in Marina del Rey and half the year sailing and traveling around the world.

I just want to begin with some of these e-mails. I know you were on the Adams' e-mail list. You got monthly updates about their travels on this yacht called the Quest. What was the last update? What did that entail?

SCHMIT: Well, it was talking about, as they all did, where they were heading, what the concerns were, what their hopes were. And they simply asked for people to pray for them as they entered into dangerous waters.

BALDWIN: So they were aware that they were entering into dangerous waters. Can you be specific as far as what kind of concerns they had?

SCHMIT: Well, they knew very well that this was a dangerous place. That's why they signed up with the flotilla. That was a safer way to proceed through that area.

But they had this tremendous heart for mission. And I once asked them before they struck out on this trip, are you taking any firearms to protect yourself? Obviously, this is a dangerous venture. And, for two reasons -- one, they thought that it was a mission trip and they didn't feel it was right to protect themselves in that way and to carry firearms. Two, they said that if you bring firearms on board a yacht and you stop at a port and they're found, they can confiscate the boat.

So, they said, all we have got to protect ourselves if it comes to that is a flare gun.

BALDWIN: Is a flare gun in this part of the world.

What were they like? We know that they did pass out Bibles, made friends, friendly, gregarious couple. What will you remember most?

SCHMIT: I will remember Scott's great smile, his tremendous enthusiasm, not a very large man, but a very large spirit, just a joyful person, a person who always spoke his mind and -- but was also exceedingly generous. They were eager to share their experiences and invited -- invited friends, including me, to sail on part of the journey with them. I was never able to do that, but they did invite us on board the boat. And we went sailing together.

And they're just really generous, lovely people.

BALDWIN: Clayton Schmit, I appreciate you calling in and sharing some of your memories. And my condolences to you. Thank you, sir.

SCHMIT: Thank you very much.

BALDWIN: Coming up next: word that for the first time in more than three decades, ships from Iran have entered the Suez Canal.

Also, what is Detroit's new solution to save the city money? Answer: Close half of its public schools. But what about the students? What does that mean for them? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Checking some of the other top stories now: Iran sending two warships into the Suez Canal today heading to the Mediterranean. At least that is according to canal officials. Check this out. These are the first Iranian warships to enter the key waterway since 1979. Iran says the ships will head to Syria for a training mission. But this move puts Egypt's fledgling government in a pretty precarious situation with Israel. You see, Israel's prime minister is now accusing Iran of trying to expand its influence in the region.

And in Detroit, class could be out forever at about 70 schools there. The city's schools are really struggling with this massive $327 million budget deficit. And a plan is on the table to close roughly half of the district's schools by 2014. That is on top of the 59 others shut down just last year. High school class sizes would jump to 60 students each.

And an anniversary at the Supreme Court today. Folks, it's been five years since Clarence Thomas, Justice Clarence Thomas, has spoken during oral arguments. Colleagues say he doesn't like being considered -- quote -- "silent Clarence." He says he would rather be considered a good listener.

And thousands of people showing up to yet another rally -- rally -- showing support for unions and collective bargaining rights, this one there in Columbus, Ohio. Look at the crowds. Coming up next, I will be speaking with this woman -- there she is -- a ranking Democrat in Ohio. She will be talking to me about what her party's demands are. And I do plan to ask her if she has any plans to pack her bags and leave her Republican governor behind. That interview is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Let me take you back to the situation unfolding today in Ohio. We just heard from CNN's Deb Feyerick. What did she tell me, 10,000, maybe 15,000 union supporters have descended right there upon the state's capital to oppose this plan to strip public employees of collective bargaining rights.

So this bill is supported by newly elected Republican governor John Kasich who will be my guest here shortly. But right now I want to turn to Ohio's Senate minority leader, Democrat Capri Cafaro who is out there as well obviously. Mrs. Cafaro, I do have to point out that your party lost the recent elections. So what makes you think, among all the souls standing behind you, you have the support to oppose the guy who won, Governor Kasich?

CAPRI CAFARO, (D) OHIO SENATE MINORITY LEADER: Well, really, first of all, this is not necessarily Governor Kasich's bill. While he does support in my understanding the elimination of collective bargaining for state employees, senator bill five was introduced by State Senator Shannon Jones.

We live in a representative democracy. This was not originated with the executive chamber but rather the legislative chamber. Each and every one of us has an obligation to represent and speak out for the people that we work for, in my case that's the 330,000 people in the 32nd district in northeastern Ohio.

BALDWIN: But what kind of support? This is turning more and more so here like a red state. You have a Republican governor, it's a Republican majority. What support do you have to beat this bill?

CAFARO: Well, just look around me. Look behind me. These people are concerned. They are concerned that the elimination of collective bargaining, which has been in place in this state since 1983, is going to be taken away from them.

This has a direct impact on our economy. These people have taken concession after concession. For example, in my community, in my district in Ashtabula County in the cities of Ashtabula and Conneaut, those city workers have taken concessions. In Warren, the firefighters have taken concessions. These public servants -- and they are public servants -- play a critical role in our economy. BALDWIN: I understand the public workers have made concessions in the past and I understand the crux of the whole issue is the bill eliminating collective bargaining. But do you agree, I think everybody agrees the budget deficit in Ohio at $8 billion is massive. My question to you then is give me some solutions. What would you be willing to do to try to close that?

CAFARO: First of all, let me clear up one misnomer here. The link between collective bargaining and the budget shortfall in the state of Ohio is an absolute misnomer. You take, for example, states of Arizona that have no collective bargaining in place with significant budget shortfalls. We are going to have to make tough sacrifice. There will be shared sacrifice across the board.

BALDWIN: What type of sacrifice? What specific sacrifice would you put on the table?

CAFARO: Well, I'll give you an example. In skilled nursing facilities we pay a lot of money through Medicaid, hundreds of millions of dollars. We need to take that on and continue to shift the cost away from skilled nursing facilities into long-term care facilities. That's just one of many potential reforms.

BALDWIN: What about taxing? That's one example. But what about potentially calling for a tax increase to close the budget gap? Would you be willing to call for that?

CAFARO: I don't think anybody is willing to call for a tax increase at a time where we are all hurting. Right now people don't have the money in their pockets for an additional tax increase. In addition to that, if we take away collective bargaining there will be even less money in people's pockets, less money into the economy. That is -- I mean, we need to understand there is a direct link here.

BALDWIN: Before I let you go --

CAFARO: -- if we take out collective bargaining.

BALDWIN: I understand. So many people right behind you are in solidarity against that very issue.

CAFARO: Let me just say one more thing, Brooke, and I appreciate you being on.

BALDWIN: Sure.

CAFARO: I'm not afraid to work with Republicans. I may be a Democrat, but I'm happy to work with them.

BALDWIN: No. I plan on asking Governor Kasich next hour if he'll be willing to sit down with the Democrats and hammer a compromise out.

Before I let you go, Capri, I do want to ask you -- we've seen what some of the Indy star is representing that some house Democrats are packing up because of the anti-union bill. We've seen what happens in Wisconsin. Are you, your fellow Democratic colleagues planning on packing your bags anytime soon?

CAFARO: That really isn't possible for us here in the state of Ohio. I commend my colleagues in other states. But right here now we stand to try to continue with the dialogue to oppose collective bargaining here in the state of Ohio.

And obviously we're here with so many people, Democrats and Republicans, union and non-union, letting people know that collective bargaining has worked here in the state of Ohio. I'm happy to work with Republicans regarding the issues that are important and right for this state. Unfortunately I believe Senate bill five is wrong for the state of Ohio.

BALDWIN: Perhaps some of them are listening to you right now. Capri Cafaro says she will not be leaving Ohio.

CAFARO: I certainly won't.

BALDWIN: I appreciate you telling me your side of the story.

CAFARO: We can't. It's my pleasure.

BALDWIN: And I do want to tell you we're going to be getting another viewpoint. I hope you stick around and wait for the interview. I will be speaking with the Republican governor of Ohio, John Kasich. Join me for that interview shortly after 4:00 eastern.

But now I want you to look at this. What you are looking at there, that is -- we'll call that pure skill, a chopper hovering over a snowboarder, folks, who spent the night on Mt. Hood, exposed to dangerous elements. A rescue made possible because of a steady pilot at the controls. And guess what? I'll be speaking with that pilot coming up.

Plus, a few hours remain for voters in Chicago to choose their mayor. It is Election Day. Jessica Yellin is there for us. That is ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Did you see this video? I want to show you this amazing video from a mountaintop rescue. I want to take you to Mt. Hood, Oregon. A black hawk helicopter saving a snowboarder lost in the frozen wilderness overnight.

So this whole thing started when 27-year-old Julian Brantley got lost Sunday near the Timber Line Lodge ski resort. So he hiked out of band bounds up that mountain hoping to zoom down the mountain on his snowboard.

But the ride landed him smack in the middle of a blizzard so he got lost in the whiteout conditions. When the sun went down, that's when the real trouble started. No food, no water, no extra clothing to hold him through the frigid overnight temperatures. I want you to listen to him as he described the meager resources he had just to stay alive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIAN BRANTLEY ACREE II, SNOWBOARDER: About last night when it started to get dark, I kind of set up shop, got some pine needles down and just kind of did the fetal position thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: You heard that. He said pine needles, used pine needles as insulation perhaps to keep warm. Amazing. But he did have a cell phone. He did call for help. The search began and the Oregon Army National Guard found him and air-lifted him back to safety. In fact, one of the people behind that successful rescue is supposed to be joining me by phone from Salem, Oregon. And as soon as we get in touch with him, we will get him on the air.

And now to this -- the prime minister of New Zealand says it might be his country's darkest day. A second time in five months a devastating This earthquake rips through one of the country's biggest cities and one woman who lived through it all says she's scared one day later. I'm going to ask her what it felt like, what she saw. That is next.

But first, I want you to take a look at the Dow. It's down 200 points and dropping. We're going to keep our eye on that as we approach the closing bell. Perhaps what's happening in Libya is affecting that number there on Wall Street.

And as we do that, here is a little bit of free money advice. Stephanie Elam today with the help desk today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Time now for the help desk where we get answers to your financial questions. With me this hour Ryan Mack, the president of Optimum Capital Management, and Doug Flynn, a certified financial planner and founder of Flynn Zeto. Thanks for being here today, guys.

Our first question writing "I'm a 22-year-old college student and I have $20,000 in debt not including student loans. I have considered bankruptcy because I want to start fresh. Will that affect my student loans?" What do you say, Ryan?

RYAN MACK, PRESIDENT, OPTIMUM CAPITAL MANAGEMENT: As of right now, the answer is no. Essentially right now student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. There is legislation that individuals are talking about proposing to make sure they are. But as of 1998 in October that essentially negated them to be discharge bankruptcy unless you can prove undue hardship in that.

But the bigger question is being responsible, make sure we do the patriotic things and take out loans responsibly, devise a plan and pay it back responsibly. Whether individuals, governments, corporations, we all have to do that to make sure we are adding value.

ELAM: That could really you for a long time, just being 22. Our next question is from Kent is "I'm 64 and have been out of work for 18 months. I have depleted what was left of my 401(k), been through $125,000 in personal savings, carry $20,000 in credit card obligations, and am about to lose my unemployment benefit." Is there a way back, Doug?

DOUG FLYNN, CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER: Well, the first thing that comes to mind is if you're 64 and you spent that much money in that short period of time, a year and a half, two things pop up. One, you're probably spending $100,000 a year and haven't changed your lifestyle being out of work, and, two, you were completely not prepared for retirement at 64 if money that was supposed to last you forever was completely gone through in 18 months.

So the problem is this person was probably on a way to working for their entire life. They just overspent. And the bigger issue is what should have happened is three or six months into the unemployment, that's when you have to go into crisis mode. You don't wait until the very last dollar.

ELAM: What can he do now, anything?

FLYNN: The problem is he's going to have to downsize if he owns a house, cut expenses to the bone, get any kind of job. The problem is, had he done this a year ago he might have been able to do it with $100,000 in the bank. Humans do this, they wait until an absolute crisis and then act. We say three or six months in, act as if right then and there you have that money as a backstop.

ELAM: So the idea then is just find places to cut that you didn't realize you could cut before. Thanks, gentlemen. If you have a question you want answered, send us an e-mail to CNNhelpdesk@CNN.com.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, he won't even answer that question. He is just shaking hands and talking to reporters and won't say if he even feels good. It's classic Rahm Emanuel, ticking to the plan, and this time really sticking to message.

He's famous, Brooke, for his foul mouth in addition to his tough line strategy and political wiles. But his foul mouth has made him a nationally known figure. And I asked him when the last time was he cursed because he's been very disciplined on the campaign trail. He said he cursed when he heard he had to do an interview with me, which was incredibly sweet Rahm-style.

But I did ask him a little bit about how he's going to rein in the city's $500 million budget gap and the outlays they owe to pensions if he becomes mayor. And I said, how will you do it differently, or would it be different from what the Republican governors are doing across the country? And he said, you know, he once saw unions learn too late in the game that their own pensions had dried up and he won't let it happen again. But he'll do things differently. This is Rahm Emanuel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RAHM EMANUEL, (D) CHICAGO MAYORAL CANDIDATE: I will not see that happen to working families again, and I only know one way to do that, Which is to be honest, straightforward, to say we have a problem, let us not wait until it's a draconian at the end of the decade or sooner when the funds actually run out.

YELLIN: What you're not saying is a cut.

EMANUEL: No. What we will do is we'll work together through this issue. Now, what happens, that mean -- I understand you guys are all from CNN, very interested in the national story. In Chicago we're chartering a different course. We're not chartering a course that Wisconsin set.

YELLIN: Because?

EMANUEL Because I'm going to work it out with them. They're partners.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

YELLIN: Feisty.

BALDWIN: A little bit.

YELLIN: He'll do things a little different from Wisconsin.

BALDWIN: We're not surprised, not at all.

But something not a lot of people realize about Chicago, Chicago has no term limits. So this is a job that Emanuel says he wanted so if he wins, he could be there for a while.

YELLIN: That's true. Mayor Daley was in the job 22 years. But there's still a big hurdle first. This has -- it's a little bit kind of mayor's race. There's a primary today, and if nobody gets 50 percent of the vote it goes to a runoff. So this might not be it. There could be a runoff on April 5th. We'll just have to see what the results are tonight. They are looking for one person to get 50 percent plus one to be a winner.

BALDWIN: So 50 percent plus one. Jessica Yellin for us in Chicago. Jess, thanks.

And coming up, we'll take you to New Zealand to speak to a woman who survived yesterday's massive earthquake and talk to her about how she's doing 24 hours later.

Also, did you see Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi on state television today? He says he thinks the protesters in his country are taking hallucinogens, threw out the word "rats," says that they're rats working as foreign agents. So coming up I'll speak to a woman who lives in Tripoli, the capital city, and I can tell you really that's all I can tell you for her safety. She's about to share some details with us. It could get her executed under Libyan law. Stay there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BALDWIN: Now time for our quick political update. Let's go to Gloria Borger in Washington with the latest crossing the political ticker. Hi, Gloria.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: How you doing, Brooke? Well, I know you're keeping your list of potential 2012 Republican candidates, right?

BALDWIN: It just got a little shorter, didn't it?

BORGER: It sure did. Cross off John Thune of South Dakota. Lots of people in Washington, at least in Republican circles, were wondering whether he would jump in the ring, and he announced today, no, that in fact the important battles are happening right here in Washington so he's going to keep his Senate seat.

But not to worry, Brooke. He's only 50, so he's got plenty of time to run again if he decides that he wants to go for that brass ring.

Now, there's also somebody who keeps telling us he's not running for president. That's Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey. But people still seem to want him to get in the race, and he still is making an awful lot of news. He gave his budget message today in the state of New Jersey, and it outlined some spending cuts mixed with some spending for things like education. It sounds a little bit like Barack Obama to me. He would probably disagree with that. It also has some tax cuts in it.

And he also said, quote, "The old way of budgeting is over," and he seemed to really be supporting his fellow Republican governors in the states of Wisconsin and Ohio right now who are having their fights, as you know and have been reporting, with labor unions.

As for the president himself, he's also talking about the domestic economy today in Ohio, but lots of people in the administration are really closely monitoring the situation in Libya. As you've been reporting and CNN has been reporting, things are very, very difficult there today.

The president did not give any public comments, and the face of the administration was Secretary of State Hillary Clinton who came out and said that the U.S. is watching that situation with alarm, called the bloodshed there "completely unacceptable," said the world was united against it in an unambiguous way.

And we're going to have more about this in "THE SITUATION ROOM," particularly talking about just what the White House can do, if anything, in this kind of situation and what the international community can do, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Yes, we're watching Libya closely. But I want to take you back to a point just made. There are reports in Ohio, Indiana, and reports Wisconsin with these bills on the table.

BORGER: Right. BALDWIN: Some sides say they are union-busting bills. Some of the Republican governors say, look, you know, we have major budget shortfalls and we've got to do something.

BORGER: Right.

BALDWIN: What are you hearing from the White House? We know we're watching these stories very closely in the middle of the country. What has the president said?

BORGER: You know, it's a very difficult situation for this president, because he clearly understands, as he said the other day, the need for cutting budgets, but he doesn't believe that you as a result have to throw out collective bargaining which is at the heart of the labor union movement.

BALDWIN: Right.

BORGER: And, you know, there are lots of polls being taken right now, Brooke, about this. The public is divided on it. They are all in favor of cutting the budgets and making members of the unions pay their fair share, but the question of whether you ought to bust the unions still remains very, very open in the minds of the public, and it's something that the administration says cut the budget but don't end the unions.

BALDWIN: And here is the president. Live pictures speaking of, just hopping off the plane having been in Cleveland today talking jobs. There he is, now home, close to you, Gloria Borger, at Andrews Air Force Base.

BORGER: Very close, sure.

BALDWIN: Hey, Gloria, thanks so much for a little bit of extended political ticker at this hour. I appreciate it.

And I want to remind all of you we'll get another political update in half an hour. And you can always read the latest political news with people very hard at work. Go to CNNpolitics.com and also on Twitter @politicalticker.

And now, watch this.

A daring rescue attempt on the high seas, but ultimately pirates killed four Americans. Who were they? Did they realize the dangers, and why did that rescue failed? I'm Brooke Baldwin. The news is now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

As bullets fly in Libya, the man accused of trying to kill his own people now has a new target, America, and Moammar Gadhafi's blame game includes everything from hallucination pills to rats.

First, anger in Wisconsin. Now public employees in Ohio are taking on their leaders.

CROWD: Kill the bill! Kill the bill!

BALDWIN: I'll ask Governor John Kasich about this game of political chicken.

Plus, a man fighting cancer has months to live. But he also cheated on his taxes, so should he spend his final days at home or in prison?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're talking about his life here.

BALDWIN: And should you have to give your boss the password to your Facebook account? We're on the case.

(END VIDEOTAPE)