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Rescues in New Zealand Amid Tragedy; How to Invest in Oil; Homeless Vets' VIP Advocate; Opposition Makes Gains in Libya; Detroit School Shutdown; Has Football Become Too Violent?

Aired February 23, 2011 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: All right. It is the top of the hour. I want to show you something that has happened in the last hour, breaking news.

The price of a barrel of light sweet crude oil has exceeded $100 a barrel for the first time since 2008. That is having a negative effect on the markets, although since we last looked at the Dow Jones Industrial Average, which you're looking at right there, it has actually improved, down 112 points, better than it was about a half an hour ago. So it seems that maybe markets are taking this in stride.

Of course, this is all over concern about what's going on in the Middle East, which we will be having very full coverage of over the course of the next hour.

Another story that I want to bring your attention to, it's the earthquake in New Zealand.

Now, in catastrophes as big as that one that hit Christchurch, the second largest city in New Zealand, well, we all take note of small victories, victims that are pulled alive after hours in flattened buildings. Today, we've had around 30 remarkable rescues, and that, of course, is more than 24 hours after New Zealand's second largest city was shattered by what was really an aftershock to a deeper, more powerful earthquake that happened last fall.

Here's a case in point. An office worker named Ann Bodkin emerging from the ruins of a building near the epicenter of the 6.3 magnitude jolt, she had taken cover under her desk when firefighters brought her out alive. It was cause for celebration, only briefly, though. Another trapped worker used her cell phone to speak with an interviewer from inside the rubble.

Listen very carefully to what she says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANN VOSS, WAS TRAPPED DUE TO EARTHQUAKE: A couple of hours ago I thought I had it. I thought that, you know, good-bye, Ann. But I managed to wiggle a bit out and breathe because I couldn't breathe. There was no air.

And now I've got a while to be here. So I'm a bit happier.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you have your cell phone with you. Have you used it previously?

VOSS: I have. Yes, I rang my kids to say good-bye.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELSHI: OK. It's hard to hear because it's a cell phone and she has an accent, but she says, "I rang my kids to say good-bye." Well, we hope that her good-bye was premature.

Media reports last hour indicated that she had been rescued, but now other reports say otherwise. And police say they're not sure. We'll stay on top of it until we find out.

But in any case, we know that the victories are far outnumbered by the tragedies. Authorities called off the search for survivors in the Canterbury TV building where dozens are believed to be crushed. But overnight they went back in just to be sure.

Now, the known death toll in New Zealand is 75, but New Zealand's prime minister says hundreds remain unaccounted for, including the daughter of Julie Berg.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIE BERG, DAUGHTER MISSING: I've been trying to take my daughter's phone since I had reception just because I thought the rescuers might hear the ring and dig down and find her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELSHI: All right. I'm joined on the phone again by Richard Green. He's a weather analyst for the New Zealand Web site Weather Watch. He's in Christchurch.

Richard, good to speak to you again.

You used to work for Canterbury TV, the CTV that we were just talking about where the building is crushed and they think that there might be 100 workers or more there. What new information do you have about that?

RICHARD GREEN, WEATHER ANALYST: Well, they have gone again to have a look, Ali, just to see what the situation is. Overnight, conditions cleared, but it's -- the difficulty is, as I had been mentioned previously, this very large hotel that's in the center of the city, 26 stories high, which looks like it's imminent, its fall, at some point. Now, that is a block and a half from the Canterbury Television building, so the search and rescue team have been very cautious in going in there because of the potential difficulty if this obviously fell, and it would cause quite a scene as well.

VELSHI: Give me a sense for those of us who don't know Christchurch, over what sort of area is there still concern? You're talking about a hotel that could still come down. How widespread is this and what's happening to people who have lost their homes in that area? GREEN: OK. Well, we're talking about the central business district. Homes have been hit very hard in eastern suburbs of Christchurch and the hill suburbs, which are also to the east and over the hills into Port Littleton and also Governors Bay.

Now, what's happening here, we're talking in terms of size -- a central business district -- we're talking perhaps a couple -- two to three miles either side, north, south, east and west. So it's all within the four avenues. That is a large area.

And when the earthquake struck, of course it was lunchtime, Tuesday. So many people were out and about.

Now, the biggest concerns for Christchurch city at the moment, this is right across the city, a population of about 350,000. Power is slowly being restored, but it is taking a long time.

Just around half of the city now has power, but water and sewage issues. Only 20 percent of the city has running water, so there are emergency water services. Tankers and a number of schools around the Christchurch area where thousands of people are going to get water.

Now, so it's the emergency services at the moment, too. They are doing their best.

We are stretched, Ali. There's no doubt about that. The help from around the rest of New Zealand has been fantastic, and the world. We really have appreciated that, and it is our time of need, no doubt about that.

Now, it is a New Zealand disaster. Yesterday, the government announced that it's a national disaster, not just an emergency situation locally.

That is the first time that that has happened in new Zealand. Still reports coming through, this may be new Zealand's biggest natural disaster of all time. Let's hope that's not the case, but it is very grave indeed.

VELSHI: All right. Richard, we -- as you said, our hearts and thoughts are with you. We'll continue to follow this story very closely. Thanks for bringing the world up to date on what's happening there.

Richard Green is a weather analyst at weatherwatch.co.nz, joining by phone from Christchurch, New Zealand. We'll stay on top of that story.

Well, as Wisconsin goes, so goes Indiana and Ohio and Tennessee and Idaho and New Jersey. This is a growing fight over budget gaps and labor rights.

Republican lawmakers and governors are trying to scale back public worker unions in the name of fiscal restraint. Indiana, now the second state after Wisconsin where outnumbered Democratic legislators have fled the capitol and the state to hold up a vote that they are sure to lose. I should say votes, by the way. They're actually protesting 10 different measures affecting labor, education or both.

Just within the past hour, they succeeded in forcing Republicans to table a so-called Right to Work bill. But from a hotel meeting room in Illinois, they say the standoff is far from over, and that is today's "Sound Effect."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DALE GRUBB (D), INDIANA STATE HOUSE: Everybody's trying to do what they think is best, just to be patient, OK, study the issues, and give everybody a chance to come together. We've always done that in the past. This will pass, and things will be better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELSHI: Grubb says he and his comrades are willing to come back any time the governor is ready to negotiate. In the meantime, the Indiana House Republicans are left without a two-thirds quorum to do the state's business, just like the Wisconsin Senate.

And in case you're wondering why the Democrats flocked to Illinois, well, that's because it neighbors both Wisconsin and Indiana and has a Democratic governor.

Former Chicago Bears safety Dave Duerson was found dead last Thursday after shooting himself in the chest. His family has agreed to donate his brain to a center that's doing research in what it calls the concussion crisis in sports.

Later this hour I'll discuss violence in sports with today's Stream Team. Today, the team will be joined by former NFL star Eddie George, coming up around 2:45 Eastern.

I want your input into this. Are sports today too violent? If so, what do you do to fix it?

Head to my blog, CNN.com/Ali, to join the discussion, or post on Facebook.com/AliVelshiCNN, or on Twitter, @AliVelshi.

I've been getting a lot of questions in the last few weeks about investing in oil. Only you can decide if it's the right thing for you to do, but you don't have to be a tycoon to benefit from the rising prices.

Coming up next, I'm breaking down how anyone can profit from a little black gold.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: OK. Today, oil prices rose above $100 for the first time in over two years. The mere threat of supply interruptions because of the uprisings we've seen in the Middle East is causing some of that spike. So on today's "Taking the Lead," we are looking at one of the smartest ways for you to make money by investing in oil. You don't need to be rich to do it.

Let's start with the big don't.

Don't invest in oil futures. When I tell you oil futures are above $100 a barrel, that's not for you. First of all, you need a lot of money to invest in oil futures and secondly, it's highly speculative. You could lose your life savings if the price of oil changes just a little bit. There are safer ways to do it.

Here is one of the things you should look into -- exchange-traded funds, ETFs. They are less risky than oil futures. There are many of them. One of the examples, if you want to write this down, is XLE. It's the Energy Select Sector exchange-traded fund. XLE is the ticker.

You buy exchange traded funds just like you buy a stock. So there's no minimum. I had somebody tweeting me saying this is just for the rich. Well, no, it's not actually. Anybody can buy an ETF. All you need is a trading account.

Mutual funds, often the best way for regular people to invest, because you spread your risk amongst a number of companies. To make the most of a mutual fund investment, look into a company that -- a mutual fund that invests in companies that explore -- that service oil companies or that explore or produce for oil.

Here are a couple of examples. The Vanguard Energy Fund -- ticker there is VGENX -- is an example. It's got a low expense ratio, an excellent record, and it blends oil companies and oil service companies.

Here's another way to invest in the rising price of oil. Invest in companies that actually explore for oil or produce it. The Guinness Atkinson Global Energy Fund invests in smaller companies, more potential growth. It's a little bit riskier, but it is very diversified. There's a minimum investment of $1,000 if you have your money in an IRA.

Now, this is not to say you should go out and invest in oil. Only you can decide if these investments are the right thing for you to do. But remember you do not have to be a tycoon to benefit from rising oil prices. No doubt you're paying for those rising oil prices whether you drive or whether you use any sort of transportation, or you are in part of the country where you use oil to heat your house.

OK. Now back to our social media question about violence in sports. We wanted to know if you thought that sports today is too violent.

Well, the majority of you actually said no. Here are some postings.

Oz said this on Facebook: "No. We've come from gladiators and rugby and football with no pads. Whatever we do now pales in comparison."

Christine says, "Football is a rough spot and even the minor hits can cause brain injuries. It's a chance a player takes."

Andrew posted this on my blog: "Sports are not too violent but some players are."

And Micah says, "People today are way too soft and sensitive to issues. Every time something big happens, everyone overreacts."

Doug says, "I would fix it by returning sports to its proper focus, by teaching young athletes why sports have value in society."

And Kevin also had an interesting fix to the problem: "Make a policy that all player fines related to a hard hit or player misconduct go into a fund that can be divvied into various long-term injury prevention research."

Head to my blog, CNN.com/Ali, to join the discussion, or post it on my Facebook or Twitter pages.

Well, with their service complete, many veterans are ending up on the streets. We're going to meet the VIP veteran who has made helping them out his life's work.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: It's the Marine mantra, "No One Left Behind." And decades after he served, one Marine still lives that. His ongoing mission is to get homeless vets off the streets and into housing.

More from our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Ali, we've come to an extraordinary place. Here, a son of Hollywood royalty giving back in a way few can imagine.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STARR (voice-over): Stephen Peck shows us around 26 acres of housing for homeless veterans. For this Vietnam veteran, a former Marine, 40 years after he came home, the work is an emotional labor of love.

(on camera): You, already, as a veteran of a very tough war, when you see that you are able, that your organization is able to help and make a difference in somebody's life, got to be good.

STEPHEN PECK, PRESIDENT, U.S. VETS INITIATIVE: That's a great thing, yes. Yes, it's good therapy.

STARR: Do you think it helps you as a veteran?

PECK: I'm going to stop for a second.

STARR (voice-over): There are an estimated 100,000 veterans on the nation's streets every night. Peck's group, the nonprofit U.S. Vets Initiative, serves over 2,000 veterans in five states each day with housing, counseling, and employment services.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good.

STARR: There's a new plan for the women here to be able to have their children with them. Lorna Hudson's 5-year-old son Sheldon right now has to stay with relatives.

(on camera): Tell me about the night that you realized this is it, got to fix it.

LORNA HUDSON, HOMELESS VETERAN: I would say it was the night when it was raining cats and dogs and I had no shelter. And I felt like, wow, there's got to be something better than this.

STARR (voice-over): Peck's journey of service is rooted in his own background. He is the son of the late Gregory Peck --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD")

GREGORY PECK, ACTOR: In our courts, all men are created equal.

(END VIDEO CLIP, "TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD")

STARR: -- a Hollywood icon, not just for his film career.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you classify yourself as a radical, Mr. Peck?

G. PECK: No. No. I would classify myself, if I have to be classified, as an old-fashioned American liberal.

STARR (on camera): Your father was also known for being someone in the business who, in those days, was very active, with a social conscience.

S. PECK: He was. Apparently on Nixon's enemies list.

STARR: And proud of it.

S. PECK: And proud of it.

STARR: Was he seriously?

S. PECK: Oh, he was. Oh, yes. Yes. I looked.

I had heard the story, so I looked it up on Google. And there it was because of his progressive politics, you know, and his liberal -- you know, the way you say it these days -- politics.

STARR (voice-over): Stephen Peck says when he got his draft notice for Vietnam, his father was supportive.

S. PECK: He was a liberal politician against the war, but he was a patriot. So he wasn't going to say, son, you can't go to this war.

STARR: And after the war, Stephen became an advocate for homeless veterans.

(on camera): You could have done something a lot easier --

S. PECK: Could have, yes.

STARR: -- after all of the experiences that you had in Vietnam.

S. PECK: Right. Right.

STARR: But this was it.

S. PECK: This is what drew me. No, this is what drew me, yes.

STARR: You don't regret it, you've not looked back.

S. PECK: Not a day.

STARR: Not at all?

S. PECK: No.

STARR: Do you think some of Vietnam is still with you?

S. PECK: Absolutely.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: Stephen Peck calculates there may be tens of thousands of female veterans across the country that need some type of help. And he says he's going to keep helping one veteran at a time -- Ali.

VELSHI: Barbara, thanks very much.

It is 21 minutes after the hour. Let me give you a check on the hour's top stories.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

VELSHI: All right. The other big story that we're following obviously is the earthquake, the aftershock in Christchurch, New Zealand. Let's go "Off the Radar" for a second.

It was a 6.3 magnitude earthquake, or aftershock, as you said. It's brought down power lines. Today, Google has offered sort of a helping hand with its emergency response team, setting up something called Person Finder. Tell me what Person Finder -- how it works.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I think this is in the infancy of something very important for the Internet. VELSHI: OK.

MYERS: This is how people miles, tens of thousands of miles away, can communicate with each other when you don't have anything maybe more than a mobile device.

VELSHI: Right.

MYERS: OK? I am looking for someone. I have information about someone. That's all it is. Now, this is obviously --

VELSHI: It's good because it's not complicated. So if you're on a mobile device, it's easy. Two choices.

MYERS: When I walked into the building, there were about 6,000 records. Now there are 9,100 people on here saying, "I'm OK. I'm not OK."

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: Right, because how many times have we found in hurricanes or things like that, we put somebody on TV, we interview somebody, and all of a sudden it connects people? That's just an impractical way to do things, to hope that everybody who is looking for someone or who needs to be found is going to be on TV or on the radio.

MYERS: If you can go on this spot like this, "I'm OK," and then all of a sudden, somebody 10,000 miles away says, "Oh, I found him, he's OK," all of a sudden all of that --

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: Now, you say it's in infancy because, look, you could lie, you could be saying somebody is OK and play a joke on someone.

MYERS: True. But I think that the applications to get onto this site will be much easier in the future.

VELSHI: Right.

MYERS: The Droid will have something, the BlackBerry will have something. It will be an app that you can download that maybe you wouldn't have until --

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: Right. But everybody will probably get one and be able to say, hey, just so you know, I know that you're hearing about all of this stuff, I don't have great communication, I'm OK, spread that word.

MYERS: How many times can you not find your parents?

VELSHI: Yes.

MYERS: Something's wrong --

VELSHI: Every time that we report something on the news, don't you get e-mails from people that say, I know somebody who's there, or I'm trying find them?

MYERS: Exactly.

VELSHI: It may just be that their phone is off, they're not taking calls, or the cell system is not working all that well.

MYERS: I'm OK.

VELSHI: Good idea.

MYERS: Amazing.

VELSHI: All right. Very good. Thank you. Thank you for that, Chad. A little bit of hope in a bad situation.

Listen, those anti-government revolts going on in Libya, how long can Gadhafi hang on to power? We'll bring you an update on the crisis right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: If you haven't been watching, here's what you've missed.

With at least 75 people dead and its second biggest city in ruins after yesterday's quake, the government of New Zealand has declared a national disaster, the first in the country's history. Rescuers are still hopeful they can find more survivors under the rubble in Christchurch, but a steady stream of aftershocks has authorities fearing more building collapses.

President Obama is expected to speak on the revolt in Libya today or tomorrow. Meantime, the revolt against Moammar Gadhafi appears to be growing. Residents in the capital, Tripoli, describe the situation as a state of terror. The opposition claims to have control of the eastern part of the country, and high-level defections from the government continue.

Residents in the capital of Tripoli describe the situation as a state of terror. The opposition claims to have control of the eastern part of the country and high-level defections from the government continue. The U.S. and other foreign governments have begun getting their citizens out of the country.

Attorney General Eric Holder says he'd just been told to stop defending the constitutionality of the Defense of Marriage Act. The 1996 law states that marriage is only the union of a man and a woman. According to Holder, President Obama decided that classifications based on sexual orientation should be subject to a more heightened standard of scrutiny and that key parts of the law do not meet that standard and are unconstitutional.

Senator Harry Reid says that brothels are hurting his home state. He wants them banned. The Senate majority leader is calling on Nevada lawmakers to have what he calls an adult conversation about outlawing prostitution. Reid made his remarks before the state's legislature yesterday with some brothel members in attendance. Reid says Nevada should be focused on new jobs, not an old professional.

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg has signed a bill banning smoking in many public places. The new law makes smoking illegal in New York City's 1,700 parks and on the city's 14 miles of public beaches. Smokers will also be prohibited from lighting up in pedestrian plazas like Times Square. The law will go into effect in 90 days. Violators can face a $50 fine.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Nine days in and the chaos continues to spread in Libya. Opposition protestors say they now control even more of the country. Witnesses in Tripoli, the capital, say that it is nearly deserted but for armed Gadhafi supporters roaming around.

Let's dig in deeper now with our daily contributor, CNN anchor and correspondent -- CNN International anchor and correspondent Michael Holmes, my good friend.

Michael, we were careful to say armed supporters of the government, different from the army. This isn't like Egypt or Iraq or places like that with big effective armies.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR/CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. And that's for a reason in many ways. The army itself, under 40,000 standing troops, and it's fractured. It's underequipped. It's undertrained. It's not united.

Why? Well, it's been deliberately done that way. Moammar Gadhafi doesn't trust anyone.

VELSHI: Right.

HOLMES: And let's remember how he came to power, a military coup. But --

VELSHI: So, it's a deliberately weak army.

HOLMES: Deliberately weak army in terms of its structure.

VELSHI: Right.

HOLMES: It's not going to be able to be coalesced into something that could challenge him seriously.

VELSHI: Right.

HOLMES: But what you do have then are the paramilitary groups. And you've also got these reports of mercenaries being brought in from Africa who are out there. They are very-well organized, the paramilitary y groups, at a very local level -- also brutal. We're hearing reports of going house to house killing people now. VELSHI: All right. Let's talk about Christchurch, New Zealand. Have you've been there?

HOLMES: Yes, I've been there a couple of times. Beautiful little place. You know, it's a second biggest city in New Zealand. But New Zealand is a pretty small country.

VELSHI: Right.

HOLMES: One of the most unpopulated countries on earth. In fact, only 375,000 people in Christchurch -- absolutely being decimated by this earthquake. Horrific stuff, 75 dead so far.

VELSHI: But everybody's got an asterisk next to that.

HOLMES: Absolutely because there's at least 300, maybe 400 people missing. You're talking about one building in particular, where the -- the building, Canterbury Television, 100 people missing inside that building. They've given up on that building.

VELSHI: Yes.

HOLMES: They stopped searching. There's been some great rescues.

VELSHI: We talked to a guy there who was in the news and he was talking about the Grand Chancellor Hotel. It's the biggest building in the city.

HOLMES: Twenty-six stories.

VELSHI: And they're worried that it's going to come down.

HOLMES: It's moved apparently something like a meter and a half sideways.

VELSHI: Wow.

HOLMES: And is tilting three meters. Any good aftershock and that thing is going to topple. They've had to cordon off two city blocks because it will take down a bunch of other buildings when it goes down.

VELSHI: Right.

HOLMES: This city has been absolutely decimated. I think it could be $12 billion to rebuild.

VELSHI: Wow.

HOLMES: Yes.

VELSHI: They're getting the aid necessary? They got the resources necessary to try to do whatever they can?

HOLMES: As much as they can. They've got a great infrastructure there of search and rescue in New Zealand, as you know, a mountainous country. They're used to rescuing people. And they're pretty good in urban areas as well.

In addition, I'm told at least 1,000 international rescuers --

VELSHI: Right.

HOLMES: -- including from the U.S., are there at the moment. Australia, a close neighbor as well. They're working around the clock right now.

But it's slowly turning as we saw in Haiti from a search to recovery.

VELSHI: Right. And at least we're still -- we're still early enough, as we've seen both in Haiti and in 9/11 and other -- in Pakistan, that we're still in the stage where they'll be able to pull survivors.

HOLMES: Yes. And we've seen a couple of amazing rescues.

VELSHI: Yes.

HOLMES: There's one woman in there, Ann Bodkin, pulled from the rubble after 25 hours. You had that lady who was on the phone to the news station. They got her out as well. They're still pulling people out. But those things -- it's just those little miracles amid the disaster.

VELSHI: Hang on for a second. We got Nic Robertson who is on the eastern border I believe of Libya -- Libya's eastern border, which we understand is controlled or at least opposition people are claiming they control it.

Nic, what's the -- what's the story from Libya?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'm on the western border actually of Tunisia. We've been talking to people who have been coming out of the country, they're saying it's still controlled by Gadhafi. What they tell (ph) you is that last night, things got tougher in the city of Tripoli, the capital, because Gadhafi's speech told security forces to get out on the streets, people deserted the streets.

The other interesting thing we're hearing is people fleeing the country, coming across the border, reports about 20 checkpoints along the road. But all those checkpoints they say the government is systematically destroying the elements of any wrongdoing, any killing, any shootings by government security forces. They say what's happening is that those checkpoints, they're having their cell phone, SIM cards, and their cell phone memory cards taken out of their phones and those cards are being destroyed.

So, destroying any video evidence that's been recorded on those cards. That's a systematic process that the Libya security forces are doing right now, Ali. VELSHI: What is the sense of government control in Libya that you're getting as opposed to whether there's this popular revolt? How popular a revolt is it? Are there enough people getting up and objecting to government rule in Libya that this revolution is gaining ground?

ROBERTSON: At the moment in the capital, people aren't getting up and challenging it. Since Gadhafi came out with his speech late last night, people have decided to stay out of the way of his security forces. They are the dominant force on the streets in the capital.

In the eastern country, that's different. It has fallen to anti- government forces. But in the capital and the west of the country, it does still see that Gadhafi is dominant.

But people are fleeing and they tell us the reason they're fleeing because they expect a big fight to come they say because they expect people to come to the countryside in numbers to challenge Gadhafi security forces. But right now, he does, they say, seem to have a grip on the capital, Ali.

VELSHI: What's your sense, then, from where you -- the reporting you've done as to what the next likely development is going to be in Libya with respect to who is controlling it?

ROBERTSON: You are going to see an upping of the ante. You're going to see a solidification in the east of the anti-government forces. You'll probably seeing them try to parade towards the capital.

You'll see the potential for tribes to rise against the government and to organize militias to come against the government. This may play out in a protracted manner.

There are report that's Gadhafi may try and torch some of it and blow up some of the oilfields. That hasn't manifested itself yet, but everyone recognizes that is a potential. That will probably turn more people against him, more quickly, but it does seem it's going to hold on so there will be a fight eventually it seems, a fight for the capital where his militias and private security forces will go face- to-face with tribes and with the population who have yet to get themselves organized in that way, Ali.

VELSHI: All right. Nic, stay safe while you're out there. We'll keep in touch with you -- Nic Robertson on the Tunisia/Libya border.

Michael, let me ask you this. You mentioned these weak militia paramilitary armies. Nic is now talking about the parts of the country that will be controlled by militia. Compare this to something we know -- what's it like, when we're talking about militias that will start to take control of different parts of the country? In Tunisia and Egypt, it was very clean -- either the government ran it or they didn't.

HOLMES: What I said, the army is the weak part. The paramilitary units are well-funded, well-resourced and brutal beyond belief. There's also an extensive and brutal internal security apparatus, intelligence apparatus. And when you've asked me to compare it to something, like the revolutions in Eastern Europe, the fall of the Berlin Wall, the Romanian Revolution -- it brings to mind more the actions of their Securitate in Romania or the Stasi in East Germany in terms of how they ran the country at that level on the street --

VELSHI: OK.

HOLMES: -- in neighborhoods, cities, towns.

VELSHI: Very interesting. All right, Michael, we'll stay on top of it with you and your team at CNN International. Thanks very much, Michael Holmes.

HOLMES: Good to see you.

VELSHI: All right. We're taking a quick break. We'll be back in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Robert Bob was brought in to fix Detroit schools. But the system is in so much debt that the only solution he says is to close half of the city's public schools, about 70 schools. It's a controversial move that's angered some parents and teachers alike, one that spells increases in class sizes and decreases in jobs. It is one that is necessary, though, according to some people.

Take a look at this: in the last decade, Detroit's population has shrunk 20 percent. Public school enrollment is down 50 percent. Bob's plan would close 70 schools, leaving 72 open by 2014. As a result, high school class sizes would jump to 60 students apiece.

Joining me now to discuss how this could impact the city, Detroit's Mayor Dave Bing.

Mayor, good to speak to you. Thank you for being there.

You certainly are the mayor of a very, very troubled city. And many of us have thought we'd seen really the worst of it in Detroit. Closing 70 schools -- how does that fit into the bigger issues you've got in Detroit?

MAYOR DAVID BING (D), DETROIT: Well, it obviously will create a major problem because when you close those schools, those kids are not throwaways. And, you know, the question becomes: where are they going to go? How are they going to get educated?

And we've been losing population both from a citizens' standpoint and we've been losing population in our school system. And this will accelerate that even more. And then you have, you know, another 70 empty buildings that I've got to deal with from the city's perspective. So, there's nothing good about it. VELSHI: All right, in your state of the city address last night, one of the things that I caught was that you said crime rates are -- and unemployment are both down in Detroit. Now, is that because something good is happening or is that because as you just said people continue to leave the city?

BING: No, I think it's because something good is happening, quite frankly. Our police are doing an outstanding job. We've got a 15 percent reduction in crime rate, a 17 percent reduction in homicides, a lot of the cases that have been open for a long time are now getting closed.

We're doing a lot of good things as far as public safety is concerned, but it's still way too high. It's all based on where we started from.

VELSHI: Mayor, I'm a big fan of Detroit, I spend a lot of time there. I often say it's well located, got a great airport, got a trained workforce, great highways and infrastructure.

What happens to fix Detroit? What has to happen?

BING: Well, I think because we've lost so much of our population -- at one point in time, 40 years ago, we had 1.8 million people. We're down to half that population. We have 139 square miles in the city of Detroit and we have an infrastructure for over 2 million people. We can't afford that any more.

So we're looking at making sure our city becomes much more dense from a population standpoint than it's ever been. So we've got people living in a lot of areas where there may be one or two people in a neighborhood, and we've got to get those people to come back into the central city so that we can service them appropriately.

VELSHI: David Bing, if your city does well, that mean the country is going to be doing well or at least we can take some lessons learned from Detroit. Thank you for being with us. We wish you luck and will continue to watch Detroit closely.

Dave Bing is the mayor of Detroit.

We are just getting word that the governor of Wisconsin, Scott Walker, has scheduled a news conference for 3:30 p.m. Eastern time, that's 45 minutes from now. As you probably know, Wisconsin's teachers and other public workers have been in an uproar for more than a week over Walker's bid to make them pay more for health care and pensions and to take away their collective bargaining rights. The teachers spent days out of classrooms protesting. Democratic state senators have been in Illinois for stalling a vote because they are out of the state. You will see and hear Governor Walker live at 3:30 Eastern time right here on CNN.

Al right, is football too violent? I'll ask former NFL rookie of the year Eddie George and the rest of my stream team when we come back.

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VELSHI: Former Chicago Bear Dave Duerson committed suicide last week, and he seemed to have a greater purpose in mind as he made a point to shoot himself in the chest and not the head. He left messages with family members asking them to have doctors examine his brain for evidence of possible trauma.

As you know, the National Football League has been criticized for being too lax in dealing with the consequences of head injuries. So this begs the question, is football too violent?

Joining me from Los Angeles, former Heisman trophy winner Eddie George. He was the second running back to rush for 10,000 yards while never missing a start.

Eddie, let's talk about this -- and we also have another guest, Marie Harden joins us as well.

Eddie, let's start with you about this. What's your sense of the NFL and how it treats head injuries?

EDDIE GEORGE, NFL PLAYER: Well, in regards to the NFL and the head injuries, I think over the last four to five years you've really looked at Roger Goodell implementing a plan to make the game safer. You know, having players thinking more consciously about where they're hitting and how they're hitting players, defenseless players.

But the game is the game. It's going to be a violent game and when you're talking about in regards to the death of David Duerson, I tend to believe that, you know, as far as his brain was concerned we don't know if it was related to his death.

And it's tough to say -- you have to be careful about what you say about guys having injuries and relating it to suicides. I think what you have to look at is the underlying layers that surrounded his death. You're talking about a rags to riches back to rags story in terms of a financial situation that most people can't handle. You know, you look at Chicago, this past years, three prominent men of business all committed suicide. They never took an NFL hit.

So you have to be really careful in terms of, well, is the game too violent. Is it causing these guys to make these decisions? I think it comes down to the bigger issue is after the game. You know, the transition that you make after the game and having, knowing what to do next for a lot of these guys because there is no set plan for what you do after your playing days and it often brings on depression and a lot of issues from total well-being perspective.

VELSHI: Marie, what's your sense of this?

PROF. MARIE HARDIN, PENN STATE UNIVERSITY: You know, I would agree with Eddie in that football is simply a violent sport. That's the way it was set up. It's a sport where the most forceful team is going to win the game, and I do think we have to be careful about what we read in to things like the death last week. I would also say that, you know, certainly sports over the past few decades, perhaps we could argue they've become more violent, that doesn't necessarily that they've become more dangerous, as the science of sport really works on safety issues with athletes.

VELSHI: Eddie, what, then, needs to be done? Because there are an increasing number of people who are saying that there needs to be more research into this, to see what's dangerous and what can be done.

You mentioned there have been some changes made. You're satisfied that they're enough?

GEORGE: You know, I think the research is there. I think, you know, when you're looking at guys' brains and seeing how that affects the injuries or blows to the head, how that impacts your lifestyle, I think what needs to be done a better job of is the health care issue with players. You know, five years out and then you're not covered, is just not enough.

I think you need to really look at that research and a wellness plan after for these guys so you can have a chance to have counseling, so you can have a chance to have counseling, so you can have a chance to tap into a network that you can find business or other things that you can do with your life skills.

I think it really starts there because when you're talking about a person that's been through the highs and lows of the NFL and experienced the mountaintop and then all of a sudden becoming a nobody, that's a disheartening situation.

So a lot of it stems from, who are you next, what are you doing next from a financial standpoint, a health standpoint and social standpoint. And that's what needs to be addressed more importantly than anything else because the game is it the game. It hasn't changed over the last 75 years.

And again, Roger Goodell and the NFL, they're trying to do a better job of keeping the game safe for players. But more importantly, after the game, the health care of these players is more important. The total well being.

VELSHI: Eddie, it's good to talk to you. Thanks very much.

Marie, thanks for joining us.

Marie Hardin, by the way, is an associate professor at Penn State University, currently Center for Sports Journalism, and Eddie George former Heisman trophy winner. Thanks to both of you.

All right, time for a CNN Political Update. CNN deputy political director Paul Steinhauser joins me from Washington.

Paul, what do we think about the budget battle going on in Wisconsin? There's some surprises in some new polling.

PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes. The whole idea, Ali, was, what do Americans think about all this. Check this out, Gallup is out with a poll this morning, a national survey they did just earlier this week.

Take a look at this. First off, the question is: In your state, if there was a move to reduce the pay and benefits for state government workers, would you approve or support that or be against that? Look at the numbers right here, a majority, 53 percent oppose such a move, just 44 percent favor it.

What about the other thing going on in Wisconsin, and that is a move by the governor there to try to strip the collective bargaining rights of those state government workers? You can see there a larger opposition, more than six in ten oppose the move, only one in three support the move.

And, Ali, as you can imagine, this poll indicates a partisan divide on that question with Democrats and even Independents opposing the stripping of the collective bargaining. Republicans by a slim majority, not that slim, 12 points favor it.

Ali, that's what I've got. Back to you.

VELSHI: All right, Paul, thanks very much.

And of course, anybody who's undecided on that matter will have lots of opportunities to form their opinions, because it sounds like it this is playing itself out in a few different states.

Paul Steinhauser, good to see you my friend.

Your next update from "The Best Political Team on Television" is just one hour away.

I'm sure a lot of folks have had it up to here with the TSA and airport security. Well, count a Seattle restaurant owner among them. I'll show you how he's trying to stick it to the TSA and why his sweet revenge kind of comes off like sour grapes.

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VELSHI: Time now for my "XYZ."

Today, I'm serving up what some consider the just desserts for the TSA, that's the Transportation Security Administration, the people in charge of security screenings at almost all of America's airports.

Now it seems that a restaurant near Seattle-Tacoma Airport is fed up with the pat-downs and perceived lack of respect for the traveling public. So it has put TSA employees on its no-eat list. Signs on the doors tell TSA agents not to come in. If they come in anyway, a restaurant employee says, and I quote, "We turn our backs and completely ignore them and tell them to leave. Their kind aren't welcome in our establishment."

Now supposedly the restaurant's clientele approves of the ban. We're even led to believe police have escorted TSA workers out of the restaurant. I've got questions about all of this, and not only because I spend more time in airplanes than I do my own kitchen.

My big question is this -- really? The people who touch your junk didn't make the rules. And if you think dignity is being compromised, what about theirs? At least for you it's a moment out of your day. For them, it's the daily grind, day in and day out.

Here's a thought -- Why not just frisk the TSA people who for reasons I can't fathom actually want to eat at your place? And next time you want to make a point or take a stand, aim a little bit higher.

That's it for me. Brooke Baldwin takes over NEWSROOM -- Brooke.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Ali Velshi, thank you.