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Discovery's Final Mission; Libya's Uprising; Wisconsin Battle Escalates

Aired February 24, 2011 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Don Lemon, thank you so much.

I appreciate you staying with us. And we have lots going on this hour, including this. Check your clocks. We are T-minus one hour and 50 minutes from the launch of the space shuttle Discovery. These are live pictures, final preparations under way before a crew of six heads to the International Space Station.

We will take you live to Cape Canaveral to the Kennedy Space Center a little later in the hour for that.

Also, that woman suspected of snatching a newborn from a New York hospital more than 20 years ago is facing a judge in federal court today. Ann Pettway is charged with one count of kidnapping.

Also this. We are getting some new details on this suspect. This is a 20-year-old from Saudi Arabia who was allegedly stockpiling chemicals for a bomb. One of his targets? George W. Bush's house.

And we have been all over this story out of Wisconsin. A vote could happen any time now in the Wisconsin Statehouse on and that controversial budget repair bill that would cut entirely collective bargaining rights for union members. And we are just getting breaking word that state police have been sent to the homes of several state Democrats in the Senate there to get them to return to Madison to the state capitol for that vote. We're going to take you live to Madison, but first this.

I want to begin with this question. How much longer can Moammar Gaddafi hold out? If you were with me this time yesterday, you're going to remember we passed on reports of Libya's second largest city, Benghazi, falling to the resistance. We told you those reports at the time were unconfirmed. Well, folks, here's confirmation.

What a scene we are seeing and hearing. There is a sea of humanity, thousands of Libyans rising up against their longtime leader Moammar Gaddafi, who by all accounts is preparing for a possible battle shaping up in the capital city of Tripoli some 400 miles away from this scene.

I should tell you these pictures were shot by a CNN crew that entered the city of Benghazi today.

CNN's Ben Wedeman is with that crew. We are going to hear from him in just a moment. But, first, I want to get to the fate of scores of Americans who have been waiting, hoping to leave Libya on this boat. This is that is high-speed ferry chartered by the U.S. State Department.

This afternoon, we have gotten word that there are 127 Americans on that ferry, and about that many from other countries as well. You may remember we told you yesterday there was some bad weather that had kept that ferry from leaving for the island of Malta some 250 or so miles away from the coast of Libya. And that appears to be the case again today.

So, I want to bring in Chad Myers, who's been watching the weather for us way over in Libya.

And the story is the same. It's that bad?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: It's still bad today -- 25-mile- per-hour winds over a very large body of water will make big swells. That's the Mediterranean Sea.

Do you remember the slightly awkward moments we showed on TV on Monday where Moammar Gaddafi was holding the umbrella trying to talk?

BALDWIN: Yes. Right.

MYERS: The umbrella, he couldn't keep it steady. That was the same storm. It's the same storm that's right now. Now, it will move away tomorrow and things will get better. But with winds at 25 miles per hour, now dark in the Mediterranean Sea, I doubt many of these ferries are going to be leaving again tonight.

BALDWIN: Yes, they just can't take any chances.

MYERS: No.

BALDWIN: I remember talking to Nic Robertson there on the border in Tunisia and you could see the wind sort of whipping for him, so fingers crossed for them they're able to get that.

MYERS: And some of the buoys saying 12-foot waves. I don't care how big your ship is. You don't want to be out there with 600 people on a pitching ferry trying to get to -- over that big -- it's big water. It's not Lake Erie. It's big, big water. It's an ocean.

BALDWIN: The Mediterranean we're talking here, yes.

MYERS: Yes, pretty much, yes.

BALDWIN: All right, Chad, thank you for that. We're going to watch what happens with that ferry.

And I told you about the scene in Egypt's second largest city, Benghazi, support for Moammar Gaddafi apparently crumbling there. Ben Wedeman has reached that city. He has filed this report for us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This demonstration in Benghazi gives you an idea of the passion of the people of this city, of the passion of so many Libyans who have been thirsting for 42 years for this sort of opportunity, the chance to express themselves freely.

We arrived in this city. And from the beginning, everywhere we went, I felt like I was an American soldier going into Paris during World War II, everybody clapping and cheering. We are the first television crew to get to this city.

And we were just overwhelmed by the welcome here. People were throwing candy inside the car, clapping, shaking our hands, telling us you're welcome. Thank you for coming here -- an incredible experience.

And I'm almost -- I feel like I'm just not up to the task of conveying just the significance of what we're seeing here. It's noisy. It's chaotic. But the people are ecstatic. The pictures just say it all.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, Benghazi, Libya.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: You are right, Ben. The pictures definitely tell the story. And what a scene. By the way, we are hoping to reach some sort of a communication, connection with Ben Wedeman, and hope to get him live from Benghazi at any time in the next two hours. So stay tuned for that.

Also, Chad Myers, thank you for the update on the ferry and the tough seas there in the Mediterranean.

Now, coming up next, a 20-year-old is arrested in Texas on weapons of mass destruction charges. The question is, was he targeting former President Bush?

Also, we are watching what's happening in Wisconsin, where any minute now, there could be a vote on that controversial budget bill. Governor Walker calls it the budget repair bill. We are going to take you live to Madison and get to the bottom of these reports that state troopers have been sent to some of these state Democrat senators' homes. That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: A man has been arrested in Texas on a weapons of mass destruction charge, one of his alleged targets, the Dallas home of former President George W. Bush.

Jeanne Meserve is our homeland security correspondent.

And, Jeanne, let's just begin with who is this suspect, this 20- year-old, and what was he doing in Texas? JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: His name is Khalid Ali-M Aldawsari, 20. He's from Saudi Arabia. He was in the U.S. on a student visa. He has studied chemical engineering at Texas Tech and had recently transferred to South Plains University, where we're told he was studying business. So that's why he was here. He was arrested in Lubbock yesterday.

BALDWIN: So, I had read he has said -- he reportedly had been plotting this for years. As we mentioned, he's just 20 years of age. So what was he allegedly plotting?

MESERVE: Well, the government says that, according to his diary, he was inspired by 9/11 and Osama bin Laden and that he, in fact, sought out a scholarship from a Saudi business to come to the U.S. He wanted this particular scholarship because he didn't have to study in Saudi Arabia.

He would come right here. He would get a fair amount of money. And, according to the affidavit, he saw this as a way to get here and get the training he needed to commit jihad.

BALDWIN: Keep in mind he would have been 11 years of age on 9/11. How far had he gotten, Jeanne, with this alleged plot?

MESERVE: Well, he had gotten fairly far. He was trying to create an explosive called TNP, which is a very old-style military explosive, also called picric acid. I'm told it is very powerful.

He had obtained two of the ingredients, sulfuric acid and nitric acid. He was trying to get the third ingredient, phenol, but the company he was trying to buy it from in North Carolina got suspicious. And they tipped off the FBI. And that is how they got on to this guy.

But, in addition to the chemicals -- and they say had he gotten the phenol, he probably could have created about 15 pounds of explosive -- he also had wiring and flasks and other sorts of lab equipment that he could have used to make this. That's the allegation.

BALDWIN: So it was a very aware company in North Carolina who then told the FBI.

Final question here, what's next for him? What's next for the suspect?

MESERVE: Well, he's going to appear in court tomorrow. That will be his initial appearance. He will be facing this charge, as you said, of attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction. If he is eventually convicted, he could face life in prison and a $250,000 fine. So this is serious, Brooke.

BALDWIN: It's serious indeed. Jeanne Meserve, thank you for that.

And now I want to take to you Wisconsin, really ground zero in this battle over budgets, over politics and labor rights. Lawmakers there could vote any minute on the state's controversial budget- cutting bill. And protesters have been there. We're in week two now. They're gearing up for more demonstrations tonight.

I'm going to get straight to Ted Rowlands.

And, Ted, before we talk about this vote here, I have to ask you about this. It was the state DOT spokesman who was the one saying that state troopers were dispatched to some of the homes of several Democratic state senators. A, who made that call? And, B, is that even legal?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, I don't know if it's legal or not. There are some folks that have raised that question whether it's -- if it's legal or ethical to send state troopers out to some of these senators' homes. Basically, what we're talking about is these 14 Democratic senators that are in the state of Illinois. There was a rumor that maybe some of them were sneaking back home at night.

So, some state troopers were sent to some of those homes, according to the Senate majority leader, and apparently nobody was home. Was that ethically OK? A lot of people are looking into that. When asked why they did that, because they can't arrest them, then bring them to the state capitol, they said that they were hoping if they did find a state senator, that maybe the state trooper could compel them to come to work and vote on this, and more importantly establish a quorum in the Senate, so that they could move this bill forward.

BALDWIN: I know they just need one Democrat to then establish that quorum for the vote. And speaking of, we had heard that it could happen any minute now. Is that still the case or might this thing be pushed off even farther?

ROWLANDS: Oh, no, that's on the Senate side. That's one side of the equation.

What's happening right now in the state capitol is the Assembly is moving through this. The Senate -- or the Assembly Democrats, their strategy was to prolong this, basically filibuster, and they have come to an agreement to limit the amount of amendments. So, it looks like they are going to come to a vote possibly at some point today, although they just hand-delivered a note within the last half- an-hour to the governor asking him to come to the table to negotiate more.

BALDWIN: I see.

ROWLANDS: But the Assembly part of this equation could be finished today. The Senate equation, one of two things has to happen. Either one of these 14 comes back and establishes a quorum, or three Republicans shift sides.

Now, one Republican has said that he is willing to negotiate and may come over. But I just talked to the Senate majority leader inside the capitol, listened to him. I asked him, any more people going to come over? And I asked him, how long is this going to take. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT FITZGERALD (R), WISCONSIN STATE SENATOR: I do believe, by the Assembly passing the bill, that it puts additional pressure on the Democrat senators to get back here. And as soon as they do, we're going to pass the bill as well. We will get it to Governor Walker.

ROWLANDS: And no way the governor or any of your members will budge?

FITZGERALD: I don't see anything that would lead me to believe that we are in a different position than on the day the governor announced the bill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Hmm. Zero room for budging.

ROWLANDS: So, bottom line, Brooke, the stalemate continues here. Yes, the Republicans aren't budging and the Democrats in Illinois say they're going to stay there at least until tomorrow. And then it's a day-by-day decision whether they will come back to the state of Wisconsin and get this thing moving through. Without them, this goes nowhere, obviously.

BALDWIN: And as it has gone nowhere, we have seen those crowds there in Madison. Talk to me just quickly about the crowds today and about this rally tonight.

ROWLANDS: Hundreds of people filtering in and out of the capitol. Some are outside carrying signs, but the vast majority of them are inside. They have really taken over in there over the past week.

Actually, today, there was -- there were some rules established for the upcoming weekend. They're going to limit the space where the public can be. But, for the past week, they have really taken over the Statehouse and that continues to be the case today, a lot of people coming in. I even saw some people from Los Angeles that came in, in solidarity with these folks that are protesting the governor's will here.

BALDWIN: Really? All the way from L.A., just like you, Ted Rowlands, just like you. Ted, thanks so much there for us in Madison.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: And as thousands of Libyans flee across the border, trying to get out of there, and Americans trying to get out by ferry, I'm going to speak with Fareed Zakaria about what happens if Moammar Gaddafi is removed from power. That is next.

Also, new allegations today that a top general in Afghanistan ordered a special team to brainwash U.S. senators into supporting the war in Afghanistan. Well, there is apparently now a brand-new twist. We have some reaction from some of those senators, including Al Franken, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Well, we are sitting here watching the clock tick down, as are a crew of six astronauts. These are live pictures inside the space shuttle Discovery. And today it's historic, because it's about T-minus an hour-and-a-half before this crew makes its final liftoff into space headed to the International Space Station.

And we will be talking to an astronaut about why this is so significant coming up a little bit later next hour, big, big day down there at Cape Canaveral in Florida.

Also, checking some other top stories today, the man who threatened "South Park" creators is headed to prison for 25 years. He is Zachary Adam Chesser. He pleaded guilty in October to charges including communicating threats and providing material support to terrorists. He confessed to posting online these threats against the "South Park" TV show creators over their depiction of the Prophet Mohammed. Chesser also admitted trying to go to Somalia to join an Islamic militant group.

And if you are driving a Toyota, folks, listen up here. The automaker is recalling 2.2 million vehicles for problems that can cause gas pedals to get stuck in floor mats. I know you have heard about this. This recalls includes the multiple years, multiple models. You can go to CNN.com/money for all those details.

And a judge in London ruled today Britain can extradite Julian Assange to Sweden for questioning over allegations of sexual misconduct. Swedish authorities have not yet charged the WikiLeaks founder with any crime yet. Assange says he will appeal the ruling. His lawyer believes Sweden will turn Assange over to the United States.

Stay right here. We're going to talk Libya, we're going to talk Moammar Gaddafi, and we will talk to this expert, one of our favorites, Fareed Zakaria, next. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: It is a city of sunshine and shuffleboard, a vacation destination with the friendly nickname St. Pete. But St. Petersburg, Florida, right now is teetering on the edge. There is a feeling that something has gone terribly wrong there.

You see, late Monday night, St. Petersburg police officer David Crawford was shot several times at close range while investigating a report of a prowler. Now, Crawford's killing comes four weeks after two of St. Pete police officers were killed in a separate shoot-out.

So, to understand how unsettling this sudden rash of police killings really is, consider this. This is the first time in almost 31 years that any police officer has been killed in the line of duty in St. Petersburg -- 31 years. Tuesday night, there was an arrest in Officer Crawford's shooting, but that arrest only increases the unease for folks in the city because the suspect here is 16 years of age.

His name is Nicholas Lindsey. He is described as quiet. He has a record, mostly property crimes. He has parents who attended parent- teacher conferences. His father who is also named Nicholas stood with his son in court and apologized just yesterday. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On behalf of me, my son, and our entire family, we send our deepest condolences and sympathy to the family and his colleagues that he worked with. This is my only son. And I'm sorry that this happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know all of those people are gratified to hear your comments at this the most difficult time and at the start of what will be a long journey as we work through the justice system. But thank you for being here. And thank you for the courage to make those statements. OK? Thank you, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I hug my son?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't do that, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Can't hug his son.

Want to bring in Bill Foster. He is the mayor of St. Petersburg joining me on the phone. And, Bill, I just have to underscore this point for your city here.

Before this last month, it has been three decades since the last St. Pete police officer was killed in the line of duty, sir. What is happening?

BILL FOSTER, MAYOR OF ST. PETERSBURG, FLORIDA: Well, thank you, Brooke, for your time and your coverage.

These are certainly anomalies for my city. St. Petersburg is a wonderful city. We have great young people. We used to be known for our aging population. And now our median age is less than 40, a thriving nightlife, home of the Tampa Bay Rays. We have so much to be proud of.

BALDWIN: But now this.

FOSTER: And now this.

BALDWIN: Is there an explanation?

FOSTER: Well, there really isn't. Three wonderful officers, fathers, husbands, family men gave their lives to protect my residents. And all -- you know, both incidents were very different in circumstances.

The first one, they were serving a warrant with a U.S. Marshal, which they do hundreds of times, and ambushed by somebody who was not going to jail. And it was his intent to take down officers.

The second one, a 16-year-old kid who had just turned 16 in the possession of a handgun, knew how to load it, knew how to aim, he fired at a badge, took one of my guys. And he will pay those consequences.

But that's a dangerous combination, kids and guns. And, as a community, we're searching for ways to break that cycle between petty thefts and burglaries and even auto thefts --

(CROSSTALK)

FOSTER: -- transition.

BALDWIN: Well, let me jump in, Mr. Mayor, because you brought up the 16-year-old, who, oddly enough, through some articles and some digging on my behalf and our producer here, we discovered that you had sort of incidentally met this 16-year-old. Was it last year?

FOSTER: It was last year. It was probably eight months ago. And I'm still a new mayor. I'm in the end of my second year, and just was interested in the recurrence of auto thefts with juveniles and how many of them graduated to more serious felonies. And so I was working with the police department in an intervention program, where those that were ordered inside curfews, kind of house arrest, our officers would literally visit every single night. And it was the worst of the worst. And --

BALDWIN: And so -- but you met him. And I had read that you said, hey, I think this is one of the kids who is going to make it.

FOSTER: I visited six that night. And this particular kid, who was 15, was bright, articulate, had a great family support, had a mom, had two aunts that said they were going to kick his butt if he strayed off.

He said, I'm not going to hang around a bad crowd. I'm going to get my grades up. I want to play football. And he said all the right things

BALDWIN: He said all the right things, but now he's a suspect in Officer Crawford's death.

Final question here. What can you do? What can your city do? Change body armor rules? I mean, I know Officer Crawford wasn't wearing a vest. It wasn't a situation in which I read he thought he would need one. What can you do to stop this?

FOSTER: Well, the chief and I are going to discuss the policy regarding the bulletproof vest. Being in the Sunshine City, with 100- degree weather, they can be uncomfortable. But we also know that officer safety is paramount to comfort and everything else. So, we're going to readdress that. But we're also going to work with our kids throughout this community to do better with education --

BALDWIN: Sure, community outreach.

FOSTER: -- as to the consequences of their -- of stupidity.

BALDWIN: Mayor Foster, we appreciate you calling in. We thought it was an important story to tell down there in St. Pete. Appreciate it.

FOSTER: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Want to take you back to Libya, where every indication is that a noose is beginning to tighten today around the capital city of Tripoli and around the country's longtime leader, 42 years here in power, Moammar Gaddafi.

Joining me now from New York is Fareed Zakaria of CNN'S "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS."

And, Fareed, good to see you.

Let's look again. I know you've seen these pictures. This is from Benghazi, Libya's second largest city, and -- and thousands of Libyans. This is just the kind of picture you just stop and sort of marvel at because they're rising up against Gaddafi. As you look at this, Fareed, what are your thoughts? Just curious.

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": This is an absolutely historic moment for Libya. It's a historic moment for the Middle East. But for the Libyans, this is really an extraordinary deliverance. Gaddafi is seen as a kind of mad comical character in the West, but he has run one of the truly repressive, totalitarian regimes. Hundreds of thousands of people killed, imprisoned, tortured.

So for people to come out and express themselves and change the regime as is inevitably going to happen, I think this is an extraordinary moment.

BALDWIN: I want to pick up on your comment, character comment in a moment. But just sort of looking back, it will be two weeks tomorrow since we sat here and saw a reasonably smooth easing out, reasonably smooth easing out of Egypt's president Hosni Mubarak. Is what we're seeing in Libya more ominous since the role of the military is quite different?

ZAKARIA: It's quite different in many different senses. First, Libya is an oil state. So it has enormous revenues of its own. It doesn't need the world. Tunisia needed European investment. Egypt needed American aid, it needed tourists. So both these countries were sensitive to what the outside world was saying and the pressure of the international community.

Libya has been a rogue state for most of its existence under Gaddafi. It has been under sanctions for most of its existence. Gaddafi doesn't care about that. He is brutal. He is thuggish, and he has oil revenues which he has used to pay himself and his army. So much less immune -- much less vulnerable to pressure than any of those other countries and you can see it by his defiant last stand.

BALDWIN: So he's been able to be defiant and go rogue because of the oil is what I'm hearing you say. But then there's the question over what can the White House, what can President Obama do or say. I want to play a snippet from when the president spoke yesterday afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Let me be clear. The change that is taking place across the region is being driven by the people of the region. This change doesn't represent the work of the United States or any foreign power. It represents the aspirations of people who are seeking a better life. As one Libyan said, we just want to be able to live like human beings. We just want to be able to live like human beings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Fareed, I want to get response to what the president said yesterday. We've gotten word the President Obama has also spoken on the phone with French President Nicolas Sarkozy. I want to get your opinion of where the U.S. should stand, what the most effective strategy and action could be right after this break. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Fareed Zakaria back with me to talk a little bit more about Libya. Let's pick up where we left off. We heard from the president yesterday afternoon. He's just gotten off the phone with the president of France and supposed to be talking with British Prime Minister David Cameron. In terms of what actions, what goals. What should the U.S. be doing with regard to Libya?

ZAKARIA: Look, I began this by saying it's a difficult set of problems he's faced. I think the administration handled Egypt about right, Bahrain about right. These are long-standing American allies. In the case of Bahrain, the king had been reforming.

But the Libyan case mystifies me. This is an anti-American regime, a rogue country, a sponsor of state terrorism. He has butchered his own people and is now in the process of effectively a kind of massacre of his own people. Why would it be so difficult to have a stronger position?

And I don't think there's much need for consultation. What are you going to talk to Sarkozy or Cameron about? This country is immune to sanctions, has very little trade. All President Obama needs to do is to get to the White House podium and call publicly for the end of the Gaddafi regime. That's the only thing that will matter. It will have an enormous moral impact and have a kind of symbolic impact. There is very little the United States can do substantively, economically. What it can do is take a moral stand.

BALDWIN: So he needs to stand up there at that White House podium and call for the end of the regime.

I want to talk more about Moammar Gaddafi. He's run this country for 42 years, and one way or another, he's run afoul of eight American presidents, including this one. Fareed, do you remember this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD REAGAN, (R) FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: How can you not take seriously a man has proven he is as irrational as he is and things of this kind? I find he's not only a barbarian, but he's flaky.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: He's flaky. Got a bit of a laugh, the late President Reagan caused him flaky. Moammar Gaddafi always good for a laugh. This is from Robin Williams poking a little fun.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBIN WILLIAMS, COMEDIAN: Here's a man who had the audacity to go it's a line of death, you cross it, you die. OK, you cross this line, you die. OK, you cross this line, you die. This line you die. OK, you knock on my door, I'm not coming out.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Not to mention all kinds of fodder for "SNL." But bluntly speaking, Moammar Gaddafi had this habit of coming off as a loon. You sat with him in your interview. He's an admitted terrorist sponsor and he's brutal dictator who kept himself in power for four decades. Talk to me about your interview with him. People accused him of being on drugs. Is that how he came off to you?

ZAKARIA: He certainly seemed to me to be on drugs. It was ironic he accused people in a rambling phone conversation.

BALDWIN: Of taking pills.

ZAKARIA: He said they were on hallucinogenic. I thought to myself it takes one to know one. I think he seemed detached. He seemed weird. He did seem like he was on drugs. But I think it made me wonder whether he was actually running the country and whether there was a power structure behind him, perhaps his sons, perhaps the intelligence apparatus, perhaps the army. It's probably some kind of combination of all those things.

But it highlights the problem which is it's not clear that anyone is really in charge in Libya. The whole country is run but a very clannish way. That's why so much of the government, ambassadors, ministers, are spinning off defecting left right and center.

BALDWIN: They are.

ZAKARIA: And what is likely to happen is fairly chaotic in the aftermath of Gaddafi's leaving. Still, it shouldn't deter us from pushing ahead, because no matter what happens afterwards, it's probably not worse than the chaos and bloodshed and mayhem that Moammar Gaddafi has inflicted on his own people and also people in other countries.

BALDWIN: So a post-Gaddafi Libya or whatever it may become your saying is better than what we've seen for the last 42 years. Fareed Zakaria, fascinating conversation. Interesting you sat with him a couple years ago. Thank you.

ZAKARIA: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Did the U.S. military try to brainwash several senators to make them support certain moves in Afghanistan? I know it's a pretty shocking report, perhaps you've read it. I'm talking about the report out of "Rolling Stone." There's this new twist now, and those senators, they are responding. That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: I've got a strange story for you, very strange. "Rolling Stone" magazine is quoting an Army psy-ops officer, short for psychological operations, who says he was ordered by superiors to brainwash American lawmakers, use his psy-ops training to brainwash these five different U.S. senator to get more troops for Afghanistan, brainwash.

And I have names for you, specifically here we're talking John McCain of Arizona, Jack Reid of Rhode Island, Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, and Al Franken from Minnesota, and Carl Levin out of Michigan.

This comes from "Rolling Stone" written by Michael Hastings, and it's built around these quotes from a certain lieutenant colonel, Michael Holmes. Holmes says his orders came from a three-star general William Caldwell who Holmes recalls saying, quote, "How do we get these guys to give us more troops? What do I have to plant inside their heads?"

According to "Rolling Stone," Holmes says he refused and he says he suffered retaliation as a result of that. I know, you're listening to this, you think hang on. It's a little kooky, but serious enough a U.S. commander general, David Petraeus in fact, has now ordered an investigation.

Keep in mind here, there is a bit of an eerie precedent. Way back, going to take you back to the 1960s, presidential hopeful George Romney -- yes, that is the father of Mitt Romney -- claimed he had been subjected to brainwashing by the U.S. military. Asked to explain his support for the war in Vietnam, his memorable response was "I had the greatest brainwashing that anybody could get not only by the generals but also by the diplomatic corps." So believe it or not, that actually prompted questions about Romney's mental state and he left the race.

CNN's senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash for me in Washington. Dana, what, if anything, are these five senators saying about this purported brainwashing attempt?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: As you can imagine, you just pointed out a good example, the idea of a senator being brainwashed is embarrassing. The general reaction among the senators named is, me brainwashed? That's what they're saying.

Senator Carl Levin for example released a statement saying there would be no need for them to trial psy-ops him to get more funding for troops in Afghanistan because he says he's always supported that. And Al Franken has said, released a statement, Brooke, saying he always is skeptical of what he's told, especially on trips like this to Afghanistan. He takes great pains to get information from a host of sources before he forms policy decisions.

But they do all say at least the ones speaking out that it's appropriate for the Pentagon to be investigating these allegations.

BALDWIN: Obviously, Petraeus, obviously the Pentagon taking this seriously enough to investigate. You cover Congress. Would there be any indication Congress would hold its own investigation here?

BASH: You have seen this as I have. When members of Congress are angry or want to make about big deal about something, they're not shy. They race to a camera and bang their fists on the desk and demand hearings. And I find it really interesting and noteworthy that's not happening in this case.

I was talking to one Congressional source who deals with the military who told me part of the reason is many people are not surprised by this. They're not shocked that the military is doing extensive homework on the positions, on the personalities and the records of members of Congress to try to get what they want. It happens in the field and in the halls of Congress.

Now allegations that the Pentagon and entirely a three-star generally broke a law by taking that a step further and using psy-ops tactics on Americans which is illegal is a different story. So that's why they're holding back from the perspective of Congress but letting the Pentagon take the lead.

BALDWIN: No fist banging in Congress. It speaks volumes. Dana Bash, thank you. Live in Washington.

And this next one, this is a bit of a tear jerker. This is about this little boy, 13 months. He has a degenerative brain condition, and the hospital taking care of him right now says there is nothing more they can do. But here's the thing. The family, his parents are refusing to let them, to let this hospital remove his breathing tube. That story is next.

But first, Stephanie Elam with a little money advice.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Time now for the help desk where we get answers to your financial questions. With me this hour Ryan Mack, the president of Optimum Capital Management, and Doug Flynn, a certified financial planner and founder of Flynn Zito. Thanks for being here today, guys.

Our first question writes "I'm a 22-year-old college student and I have $20,000 in debt not including student loans. I have considered bankruptcy because I want to start fresh. Will that affect my student loans?" What do you say, Ryan?

RYAN MACK, PRESIDENT, OPTIMUM CAPITAL MANAGEMENT: As of right now, the answer is no. Essentially right now student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. There is legislation that individuals are talking about proposing to make sure they are. But as of 1998 in October that essentially negated them to be discharge bankruptcy unless you can prove undue hardship in that.

But the bigger question is being responsible, make sure we do the patriotic things and take out loans responsibly, devise a plan and pay it back responsibly. Whether individuals, governments, corporations, we all have to do that to make sure we are adding value.

ELAM: That could really you for a long time, just being 22. Our next question is from Kent is "I'm 64 and have been out of work for 18 months. I have depleted what was left of my 401(k), been through $125,000 in personal savings, carry $20,000 in credit card obligations, and am about to lose my unemployment benefit." Is there a way back, Doug?

DOUG FLYNN, CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER: Well, the first thing that comes to mind is if you're 64 and you spent that much money in that short period of time, a year and a half, two things pop up. One, you're probably spending $100,000 a year and haven't changed your lifestyle being out of work, and, two, you were completely not prepared for retirement at 64 if money that was supposed to last you forever was completely gone through in 18 months.

So the problem is this person was probably on a way to working for their entire life. They just overspent. And the bigger issue is what should have happened is three or six months into the unemployment, that's when you have to go into crisis mode. You don't wait until the very last dollar.

ELAM: What can he do now, anything?

FLYNN: The problem is he's going to have to downsize if he owns a house, cut expenses to the bone, get any kind of job. The problem is, had he done this a year ago he might have been able to do it with $100,000 in the bank. Humans do this, they wait until an absolute crisis and then act. We say three or six months in, act as if right then and there you have that money as a backstop. ELAM: So the idea then is just find places to cut that you didn't realize you could cut before. Thanks, gentlemen. If you have a question you want answered, send us an e-mail to CNNhelpdesk@CNN.com.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: There is a sad, sad story out of Canada today about this sick little boy. He is just 13 months of age. His parents requesting to let him die at home, so the parents of baby joseph are in the middle of this fight with the Canadian hospital currently treating their son.

The hospital says this little boy has a degenerative brain condition and it wants to remove his breathing tube. But the family, these parents are saying no way, and they're fighting to keep their son alive. They want him transferred to a hospital here in the United States.

Senior Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen here, and Elizabeth, this is a toughie no matter how you look at it. What's going on?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: What's going on, this baby as a neurodegenerative disease. The family says that the hospital has told them, look, he is all but dead. In other words, a breathing machine is making him breathe, but he's in a vegetative state, so we ought to, so to speak, pull the plug.

And the family is saying we think there could possibly be hope and we want an outside doctor, an outsider to come in and evaluate him, and tell us what they think.

BALDWIN: So the parents live just across the border from Detroit, and can we bring our son, baby joseph to you, admit him here? What does that hospital say?

COHEN: We asked the Michigan children's hospital, and the family sent us an e-mail that said no, we can't. The doctors said we can't do anything for baby Joseph that hasn't already been done. His Canadian team is doing a good job and we can't do anything differently.

BALDWIN: If they get an outside doctor and says we're really sorry, there's nothing we can do. Then at that point would the parents be willing to remove the breathing tube?

COHEN: We asked the attorney that question, and they said, yes, they would be willing to accept that he was going to die. But they would want the hospital to make an easy transfer to the home so that he could die at home.

Now, I say easy. It's not going to be easy. Usually children in this state die in the hospital, but they would want them to do whatever they need to do, so he could live long enough to get home and die is there. But apparently the family says the hospital doesn't even want to do that.

So it's a very difficult situation. Some people would say the parents just aren't accepting the reality, and I'm sure other people would say --

BALDWIN: Hey, it's OK. Let the child die in their arms at home.

COHEN: But they still think there may be some possibility here, and they've actually engaged some of the folks who fought for Terri Schiavo to live. And so they're joining up with those forces, and those are some formidable forces. So they're not convinced their child's time has come yet. They think that there still might be some hope.

BALDWIN: Let us know what happens it's so sad.

COHEN: It is.

BALDWIN: Elizabeth, thank you. It's tough, 13 months.

The space shuttle Discovery sitting on a launch pad right now getting ready for the final mission. It will happen live in our next hour. History in the making, that is coming up.

Plus Wolf Blitzer with brand-new information just from the world of politician. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: And now the hour can't be complete without checking in with Wolf Blitzer. Good to see you. What do you have?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": Lots happening, of course, always in the world of politics. So let's get to these latest poll numbers from the "USA Today"/Gallup poll, the whole issue of whether there will be a government shutdown, how much compromise there should be between Democrats and Republican as far as the budget is concerned.

Most Americans want a compromise, and what should congress do in the budget battle, 60 percent say compromise, 32 percent say to the Democrats and Republicans stick to the plan.

The other question, though, who is doing a better job over the budget, it's roughly evenly divided. Obama and the Democrat at 39 percent, Republicans get 42 percent, 16 percent not sure, sampling error about four percent, so it's about evenly divided who is doing a better job as far as the budget is concerned. We only have a few days left before they have to vote on a budget, otherwise the government could shut down, although there are desperate efforts underway, as you know, Brooke, all around to ensure that the government does not shut down.

Another item, Mike Huckabee, the former Arkansas governor, he's seriously thinking of running for the Republican nomination, but right now saying he's not going to make any announcements at least for several months because he simply can't afford it financially.

He told a breakfast of reporters, if I run, "I walk away from a pretty good income." He's a contributor, for example, to FOX News. He does speaking engagements. He says "I don't want to walk away any sooner than I have to, because frankly I don't have a lot of reserve built up. Most of my life was in public service, therefore I didn't come away wealthy."

He's being honest. He's going to wait as long as he possibly can. Once you announce you're a presidential candidate, for example, you have to give up that contributor job that you have for FOX News. You have got to do other stuff that's going to cost you money. So he's waiting and waiting.

We will see if he finally decides that he wants the money or he want to take his chances and run for office. That will be -- that will be -- we will soon -- we will learn about that soon enough.

Finally, one more point. We're going to all over what is going on in Libya today in "THE SITUATION ROOM," Brooke. The clock clearly is ticking for Gadhafi. We will see what's going on, still a lot of Americans at risk in Libya right now.

BALDWIN: Yes. We have got a live report coming up from Benghazi here in just 60 seconds.

Wolf Blitzer, my thanks to you.

We will get another political update in 30 minutes. And updates, of course, hop online. Go to CNNPolitics.com or on Twitter at @PoliticalTicker.