Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Americans Evacuated From Libya; Obama Administration Imposes Sanctions Against Libya; Libyan Ambassador to U.N. Speaks Out Against Moammar Gadhafi to U.N. Security Council; Americans in Libya Ferried to Malta; First Meeting of President's Council on Job Creation
Aired February 25, 2011 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And hello, everyone. I'm Brooke Baldwin here live in Washington. And we're going to continue watching this breaking story unfolding there in Valletta, Malta, this island, some 250 miles offshore of Libya.
These are the first live pictures of this ferry that the State Department had chartered. There are about 300 or so passengers on board, 168 of them Americans. This thing had been pushed back not just one, but two days because of bad weather and rough seas.
And I know we have Ivan Watson who is standing by there with me in Malta to walk through this occasion.
And, Ivan, just walk me through. This is so, so significant for these people on board who have been very desperately trying to leave.
IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right.
You know, Brooke, we have been in touch with one 23-year-old American professional basketball player. He had just arrived in Libya, in Tripoli, three weeks before the chaos erupted. He was going to play for the professional team of one of the sons of Colonel Moammar al-Gadhafi.
And then this madness erupted there. And he said that he was trapped basically by himself basically at the team clubhouse. Nobody was bringing him food. He was abandoned by teammates and managers who had his passport. He tried to make it out via Tripoli Airport and could not escape because he didn't have a passport.
He was stopped by gangs of armed men who threatened to shoot one of his fellow basketball players. He spent all his money on a plane ticket trying to escape and never got on board a plane, and then found an alternate route via this ship.
It's a Maltese ferry, a catamaran ferry, the Maria Dolores. And it was trapped at Tripoli port for two nights with passengers on board. They couldn't leave because of the inclement weather, a storm in the southern Mediterranean. He's told us his relief will only come when he steps foot here in Malta, when he's escaped Libya and the nightmare that he witnessed back in Tripoli -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: You know, you mentioned that young basketball player. I have also seen a picture of what looked like a dozen-plus teachers also waiting to get on that ferry, also in Tripoli.
And from what I understand, you know, and what we're hearing unfolding in the capital city of Tripoli and all the violence, many of these people seem to be haunted by what they have seen and also the people they are leaving behind.
WATSON: Absolutely. I mean, these are -- this is a fraction of the foreigners who are evacuating, who are escaping right now.
Imagine the more than six million Libyans who are living through this crisis right now. Some of them desperately want Moammar Gadhafi overthrown. They're risking their lives. They're battling to do so, and some risking their lives to defend what does really appear to be a crumbling regime right now.
And some of the people we have talked to are terribly worried for the friends they have left behind and what may happen there. You know, I spoke with one Libyan-born businessman, and he had terrible things to say about Gadhafi, saying he will fall in the end, but he's going to try to take down as many people as he can before that happens.
And we have certainly heard from his son earlier today in an interview, Saif al-Islam, saying there are three options for us right now, live and die in Libya. So, the ruling family has made it very clear they are going to die before they leave Libya. We can anticipate more bloodshed in the days and weeks ahead. And certainly that's what's taking place with more gunfire reported in Tripoli as we speak.
BALDWIN: All eyes right now on that ferry that is behind you, Ivan. And I just want to put you on the spot live. Do me a favor and just turn around. And, if you can, just describe what you're seeing and how many people you see on board and if they're waving, if they appear to be eager to get off that ferry are and on Maltese soil.
WATSON: Well, I do have to say, as the boat wheeled around here in the historic harbor in Malta, we did see the passengers clustering by the window, some of them waving.
And I -- it does seem like some of them have moved down, because the exit ramp is -- is going to be below the windows right now. And they're being met by ambulances. They're being met by first aid workers, as well as embassy employees.
The U.S. Embassy here in Malta has actually flown in additional staff from other consular posts around Europe to help deal with this. This is one of the first groups of American citizens to have come in.
And, Brooke, if you recall President Obama's speech in the last couple of days, the first thing he mentioned was the safety of American citizens and of the U.S. Embassy staff in Tripoli. Clearly, a major concern for the Obama administration amid this chaos is the safety of the people behind, as what appears to be a desperate regime battles for its life. Now, the hatch has opened here and we're starting to see some of the sailors on board preparing to unload. Some of these people, again, some of them, Brooke, spent 48 hours on board this vessel after spending days trapped in Tripoli and are going to be very relieved, I expect, to set foot on land again and away from the conflict and the chaos in Libya.
BALDWIN: Sure. I'm sure that feeling of relief is an understatement. And we are not going to move away from these live pictures, Ivan. You're doing an amazing job of helping me walk through what we're seeing as they move the stairs close to the Maria Dolores ferry and as we wait and watch for those first few passengers on board who, as Ivan mentioned, had been essentially holed up on this thing for 48 hours praying for the weather to improve, for them to leave, just to get to Malta.
You know, Ivan, you mentioned President Obama and the White House. And we will be hearing from Dan Lothian here momentarily as well, but significant, significant announcements out of Jay Carney's mouth at the White House daily briefing, saying the U.S. government is imposing sanctions against Libya and suspending diplomatic operations in the country. So that certainly is significant. We will be checking in with Dan Lothian, as well as some of our folks at the United Nations.
Also, though, Ivan, I do want to mention as we look at this ferry, let's talk about a plane. We know that P.J. Crowley with the U.S. State Department had tweeted I think it was just about within the hour or so that the flight chartered by the U.S. government had left Tripoli at 1:49 p.m. Eastern time to take those U.S. citizens to Istanbul.
Do we have any kind of update on that flight?
WATSON: Well, I do think the timing may be interesting, that the announcement that the U.S. Embassy would suspend its operations and sanctions would be imposed came just moments after that plane took off, clearly, the safety of American citizens paramount as the Obama administration weighs its options and weighs ways to deal with the Gadhafi regime.
That flight is going to be about perhaps two, three hours to Istanbul. Another -- Turkey another American ally that has also been evacuating thousands of its own citizens -- Turkey, for instance, has more than 20,000 Turkish nationals, most of them working in construction, in Libya. We know that there are tens of thousands of Chinese citizens that work there, many of them in construction as well.
And we're expecting a vessel with 2,000 Chinese evacuees to arrive at this very same harbor later tonight. It's just giving you a sign of the turmoil there and the chaos and the fact that people are really trying to flee en masse.
And I do have to say, Brooke, the descriptions we have gotten regarding Tripoli Airport from people who have flown here to Malta, one of the main evacuation routes, just really horrendous, with police, Libyan police firing guns into the air, beating desperate passengers with clubs to try to control them and beat back the desperate crowds who are leaving their suitcases outside the airport in their desperation to try to catch some kind of flight out of that beleaguered city.
BALDWIN: Right. We keep hearing these reports out of Tripoli, under heavy fire today, reports of sniper and artillery fire. And yet we saw -- or I should -- we did see Moammar Gadhafi, the 42-year Libyan leader, wearing that fur trooper hat, essentially saying, we can destroy any armed violence with the armed people.
So, he is most definitely defiant, albeit embattled.
But, again, if you're just joining us, this is a major, major moment here as we're finally about to see the first pictures of these 300 or so passengers getting off the Maria Dolores ferry there in Malta after a multi-hour journey from the capital city of Libya, from Tripoli.
And, Ivan, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't embassy officials warn those on this ferry not to talk to members of the media before leaving, simply out of fear of jeopardizing their safety, jeopardizing the safety of the others on that ferry?
WATSON: Well, you can imagine, Brooke, that for two nights, the Maria Dolores, this ferry, was harbored in Tripoli harbor because of the storm in the Southern Mediterranean. It was unable to make the passage, in a very vulnerable position. You had more than 150 Americans on board. You had embassy staff and family members, as well as more than 100 other foreign nationals, in a vulnerable position.
And if somebody chose to lash out at them, to use them -- and this is purely speculative -- as hostages, they were sitting ducks, to put it bluntly. So, there were some warnings not to speak to the media after a certain point to try to ensure their safety, at least until this vessel departed Libyan shores.
BALDWIN: Sure.
Do you know, Ivan, do we know what happens next once these 300 people arrive there on land in Malta?
WATSON: Well, on the wharf below here, we know that there are -- we see a number of ambulances that are lined up. We see emergency personnel on hand to try to help them.
There are more than a dozen U.S. Embassy staff here, all prepared with phone cards and numbers. We understand that some people may be taken to hotels.
The airport here in Malta is being used as a transit hub. They're chartering flights to take people on from here. And the evacuations, this is just really the first batch of American citizens to have left, but already evacuations have been taking place here. For instance, yesterday, we saw British Royal Air Force cargo planes bringing in British nationals from Libya, landing here.
And they didn't even really set foot outside of the airport. They were then shuttled to other planes to then presumably fly to the United Kingdom from here.
And we know that there are other vessels that are going to be coming in as well, one hours later tonight that is expected to arrive with more than 2,000 passengers, most of them Chinese who have also been trapped there. And it just does give you a sense of how scary the scene is right now inside Libya, certainly inside Tripoli.
One of the people we talked to yesterday, Brooke, it was a couple from Indonesia, and the woman said, you know, it was very scary. The man said, we spent days locked up in the house. We were too afraid to even set foot outside. We did see burning buildings, government buildings, on the way to the airport, when they finally escaped. And the woman chimed in and said, yes, one of those buildings, in fact, was the Parliament, which had been set on fire -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: Yes. So many people I have heard really have felt like prisoners in their own homes there in Libya, particularly in Tripoli.
Ivan, you're doing an outstanding job. I have got to ask you to stand by. We have to sneak a quick break in. We don't want to miss this first moment of these passengers, all 300 of them, disembarking from that ferry there parked at Malta.
We will be right back with more from Ivan and also from the White House, Dan Lothian. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Welcome back, breaking news.
You are watching, the world is watching these live pictures. That is the exit where we are about to see the first of some 300 passengers disembark from the ferry there in Malta, 300 people, 168 of whom are Americans. They have been waiting for this moment for two days. But because of bad weather and tough seas, they have not been able to get out of Libya until now.
So, we're watching that. And we're also just watching this strange, yet brutal day unfolding in Libya. And I want you to look at another set of pictures here. On the left side of your screen, you can see Libya's leader, Moammar Gadhafi, as he appeared on state-run TV just a couple of hours ago.
You saw him sort of pumping his fists and vowing to fight to the death. And then in this strange turn, Gadhafi told the crowd to -- quote -- "sing, dance, and be happy."
We're also getting reports Gadhafi security forces and snipers were firing on people in the streets of Tripoli.
Now, I want you to look at this map here. You see those cities? They're marked with orange dots. Now, all of those orange dots are now in the hands of protesters. Now, some of those cities also contain oil and gas terminals. And this just in -- the U.S. government has announced sanctions against Libya. And it's also suspending -- U.S. Embassy personnel have left Tripoli and all U.S. Embassy operations now suspended.
So, Dan Lothian now joining me live from the White House.
And, Dan, some significant announcements out of that daily briefing from Jay Carney today.
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right.
You know, over the last couple of days, what you have heard from this White House is that they were reviewing a whole set of options. Today, we heard some more specifics. We're presuming that the reason for this is because this administration has been very careful not to come out with any strong language directed at Gadhafi himself or any other options that they were planning on taking until all of the Americans who wanted to leave Libya did get a chance to do so.
So soon after that plane lifted off with some Americans, that ferry also removing Americans from Libya, then you heard the administration coming out with a series of steps, including what you were talking about, not only unilateral, but also multilateral sanctions. Although the White House not giving specifics, they're telling us that those specifics will be coming in the coming days.
Take a listen to what Jay Carney had to say about that a few minutes ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Consistent with the president's tasking to the government to prepare options to hold the Libyan government accountable for its violation of human rights, we have decided to move forward with unilateral sanctions, which we are in the process of finalizing, coordinated sanctions with our European allies, and multilateral efforts to hold the Libyan government accountable through the United Nations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LOTHIAN: Now, Carney also said that the U.S. will be using the -- quote -- "full extent" of the intelligence community to monitor Gadhafi and operations there for any kind of atrocities.
In addition to all of this, the Treasury Department is also asking banks across the country to search for any accounts that might be tied to Libya. Of course, what they're looking for here is to potentially freeze assets, one way to get the attention of Colonel Gadhafi, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Well, who knows if he's listening or not. He, though, is very defiant, making it very, very clear he is not budging.
We know, as you just mentioned moments ago, the White House announced those sanctions against Libya. What does that mean in conjunction with this leader who says he wants to die a martyr on Libyan soil?
LOTHIAN: You know, that is the very important question that we have been asking, something that publicly the White House is not talking about.
But I will tell you, privately, I was talking with an administration official, who said, listen, yes, there is a lot of concern within the administration, yes, there is frustration, because, as this official pointed out, we're not dealing with Egypt here. We're talking about a leader who is unpredictable, who may do anything at any moment.
And so it's unclear whether any of what the administration is pushing today will actually get his attention and be effective.
BALDWIN: Dan, let me break away from you, because we're looking at some pictures here of what looks like the first few passengers heading off onto Malta from that ferry.
And to help me walk through this and perhaps talk to some of these people, I want to go to Diana Magnay, who is standing alongside there on Malta.
Diana, walk me through what's happening right now. Looks like a lot of emergency personnel. What are you seeing?
DIANA MAGNAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Brooke.
Yes, well, we have seen two people come out, one of whom was on a stretcher, helped out by those Red Cross and emergency personnel who you can see, and then another gentleman led down and -- and sort of assisted in walking.
Those are the only two people, passengers, that we have seen come out so far. The -- those who were in need of medical help were obviously the first people on board the catamaran more than two days ago, and they're the first to be disembarked.
And we're now seeing really just a lot of activity of medical personnel, and another man coming -- I don't know if it's a man or a woman, someone else coming down in a wheelchair and being helped. So those first passengers of these more than 300 on board that ferry, obviously those in need of medical assistance disembarking first, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Let me ask you this. And this may not be something you can answer. But as we see some of these people disembarking, do we know if any of these people are injured as a result of the violence in Libya, or are these just perhaps elderly men or women?
MAGNAY: I would be guessing here. We do not know. We have spoken to quite a lot of people on board the ferry. We have managed to Skype with them. But they were all -- they weren't suffering any injuries as a result of what had happened to them. And we haven't been informed by embassy staff whether these people we're seeing now are injured as a result of what went on in Tripoli or elsewhere in Libya over the last few days or whether it is just that they're elderly people and therefore in need of help -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: OK, Diana Magnay, stand by for me.
I want to go to someone who is on the phone now, Aman Tekbali, a college student. His mother and four older siblings are on the ferry.
Are you on the ferry? Where are you calling from?
AMAN TEKBALI, RELATIVE OF FERRY PASSENGERS: (INAUDIBLE)
BALDWIN: Hello? Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Are you on the ferry?
TEKBALI: No. I'm not on the ferry. I'm a sibling of somebody who's on the ferry.
BALDWIN: You're in Portland, Oregon.
TEKBALI: No. I'm in Tucson.
BALDWIN: You're in Tucson. OK. Sorry. I'm getting a couple of messages crossed. So you're in Tucson. You're a college student, but your mother and a couple of siblings are on board that ferry. Have you been able to be in contact with them?
TEKBALI: Not directly. My younger sister has actually talked to them several times. She got a text message this morning from my sister letting her know that the ferry is leaving.
BALDWIN: What else have they said to you?
TEKBALI: Just that they're, like, staying inside and that food is being rationed. So, you can only buy a certain amount of bread from the store and that they don't leave the house like except for like in the early hours of the morning and they just get what they need and they stay home. And they stocked up several days before. (INAUDIBLE)
BALDWIN: Are you still there?
TEKBALI: I'm still here.
BALDWIN: OK. Perhaps that was a horn from the ferry as we're watching some of these pictures.
Are you sitting there and watching CNN right along with me? Are you watching for your family?
TEKBALI: I'm actually at work right now, so I can't watch anything. (LAUGHTER)
BALDWIN: OK. OK. Well, we're watching, and I think many people around the world are watching these images as these people from this ferry disembark after -- been holed up for days on this ferry as they have been trying to leave Tripoli in Libya. Can you tell me why your family was in country?
TEKBALI: Yes. They were in Tripoli. They were there for various reasons. My mom was just visiting. And a couple of my other siblings are working there right now, just kind of recent thing that started. And my sister just got married, my oldest sister.
So right now on the ferry is my mom, three of my sisters, my brother, my brother-in-law, and his brother, who are all dual citizens.
BALDWIN: Had you spoken with them in the past week or so? Had they described any of this violence in Libya?
TEKBALI: I haven't spoken with them directly, like I said, but from what my little sister has told me, she said that they kind of stayed away from that kind of stuff and stayed inside (AUDIO GAP) they heard gunshots and they have been following the news. But I don't think they have seen any violence firsthand.
BALDWIN: Good. That is good for them.
Do me a favor. Thanks for calling in from Arizona. Do me a favor. If you do hear from them, when you do hear from them, let us know. We'd like to follow up with you. I appreciate you calling in.
But I want to go back to Diana Magnay, who I believe is still on the line.
Diana, are you still with me?
MAGNAY: Hi. I am still with you, Brooke.
BALDWIN: So what are you seeing now? I see -- is it a mother perhaps carrying an infant?
MAGNAY: I am seeing a family, exactly, with a small child, a mother carrying a small child, and behind her a little girl as well. It seems to be the first family that we have seen getting off the ship.
And you can probably see in the background, there is another ferry, but it's unrelated. So this is a family. They're going through to the area where they're going to be greeted by U.S. Embassy staff here in Malta. And what's going to happen to them is that they will be able to exchange currency. They will be able to book accommodation for the night and organize travel arrangements to get them back home to the United States or wherever it is that they want to go. So that's the first family coming off the ship right now -- Brooke. BALDWIN: We know -- yes, the first family, it looked like a small infant being carried by its mother. Here is a wider shot of the ferry, 300 people on board, 168 Americans.
And, Diana, how -- was there some sort of process to be able to be one of the 300 on the ferry? How did these people get on board?
MAGNAY: Well, what's interesting is that the ferry actually has a capacity of some 600. So there was still a lot of space. And, in fact, when we spoke to people on board in their long wait, they said, you know, we do have plenty of room. We feel fairly safe. We're being fairly well looked after, and there is plenty of room precisely because of this amount of empty space.
And I talked to the ambassador to Malta, the U.S. ambassador to Malta, just before this plane arrived and asked him why he felt there was still so much extra capacity. He said, well, as far as U.S. citizens go, we believe that we did get the message through to them on time and that they were able to board, but perhaps other countries weren't able to tell their nationals with enough time, so that they made it to the dock in Tripoli and were able to board the ferry -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: Well, Diana, do us a favor. As soon as you can get closer to some of these men and women who I'm sure are eager to get out of the media spotlight there, but if any of them are willing to share their ordeals, we would love to hear from them.
For now, Diana Magnay, thank you so much, as we watch the first few people disembark off of the Maria Dolores ferry after it had been holed up in port in Tripoli for days, finally arriving there in Malta.
Before we go to break, I want to take you live. We are looking at Ban Ki-Moon. He has been speaking. He is the secretary-general of the United Nations.
And when we come back, we will be speaking with Richard Roth at the U.N., because we now know the U.S. government is imposing sanctions against Libya and suspending diplomatic operations in the country, this just coming down last hour from the White House. We will talk to Richard next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Welcome back.
Continuing our breaking coverage today of what's happening there in Libya. These are live pictures in Malta, the port of Valletta, as we're watching the first few of what will be 300 passengers disembarking after those two painstaking days in port in Tripoli as they'd been waiting but because of bad weather couldn't leave. So we're trying to get some of those Americans on board that ferry to speak with us live here on CNN, so stand by for that.
But also this -- according to United Nations officials, the crackdown on protests in Libya is, quote, "escalating alarmingly." I want to get right to CNN's Richard Roth, live at the United Nations in New York.
Richard, we know there have been emergency meetings called to discuss what's happening there in Libya. What are you hearing? What's coming out of those meetings?
RICHARD ROTH, CNN UNITED NATIONS CORRESPONDENT: Well, the United Nations on several fronts heavily involved with Libya. Right now U.N. secretary-general Ban Ki-moon has been talking to the Security Council telling them, the ambassadors and their countries, it's time for accountability by Libya. It's time to act now. The days and weeks ahead, he says, are quite urgent regarding Libya.
The secretary-general of the United Nations saying to the ambassadors that there are reports of torture, violence, soldiers, people going into hospitals in Libya to attack opponents of the government, painting a very horrifying picture of what is going on in Libya.
He talked about the refugees. We see the ship there in Malta, but he talked about what he said was a terrifying trip for many getting out of Libya.
The Security Council, Brooke, has an important resolution that is now going to be considered by all the countries, a resolution that would impose sanctions on the Gadhafi regime. That may sound familiar with our viewers. There were sanctions for ten years following the Lockerby Pan Am bombing ordered by Libyan officials.
So that resolution may be voted on in the next day or so. The Libyan ambassador to the United Nations is now talking. This a man who is a close confidant of Colonel Gadhafi and he's kind of go over to the protestors' side.
BALDWIN: Richard, do me a favor, as we watch him speak -- you mentioned that there had been sanctions for ten years after the Lockerbie bombing. Remind all of us why those sanctions were lifted.
ROTH: The sanctions were lifted because it was felt that Libya had complied with cooperation by turning over suspects wanted in the Lockerbie bombing, two men who were tried, one acquitted and one convicted, sent back to Libya and they said he was supposed to die in a matter of months or days. That hasn't happened yet. Families of those who died on the flight are upset about that, about how that was considered.
The sanctions were lifted in December of 2003. They included asset freezes and travel bans, the same sanctions that will now be imposed by the Security Council, potentially in the next 48, 72 hours. China and Russia are two that don't really like this type of sanction enforcement. They don't think it's productive.
The sanctions name Gadhafi and members of his family being put under the sanctions and Libya would be referred to as the international criminal court for potential prosecution for crimes against humanity.
BALDWIN: As you mentioned, Richard, the gentleman who has been speaking is a close confidant of Colonel Gadhafi.
Let's listen in for a moment.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
IBRAHIM DABBASHI, LIBYAN AMBASSADOR TO U.N. (via translator): Road blocks have contained demonstration. They're asking for democracy. They're asking for freedom. They're asking for their rights. They demonstrated peacefully. They didn't throw a single stone. They were killed.
What did brother Moammar Gadhafi say? He said that these people used tablets. Tens of thousands would need mountains of these pills to lose their brains and minds after 1 million in Benghazi yesterday. The green mountain of tablets that colonel claimed would not be -- Moammar Gadhafi and his sons are telling the Libyans, either I rule you or I kill you.
It is clear this evening after many brothers were killed in eastern Tripoli, he came out in a speech before children who were brought from asylums and some soldiers dressed in civilian clothes and he told them, I will distribute arms to the tribes. Libya will turn red because of blood.
Is this because of glory? Or is it because of the people? Moammar Gadhafi cannot give a single weapon to any person in Libya because it will be used against him. I regret to be in this position. When I heard Gadhafi addressing a school in 1959 he was talking about freedom for Congo. 1960, I had listened to him complaining about the fresh nuclear experiments in Nigeria. 1961 I listened to him against the separation between Syria and Egypt. Today, I listened to him telling his people --
BALDWIN: So we've been listening to this close confidant of 42- year leader of Libya, Moammar Gadhafi.
And Richard Roth, I want to go back to you. As I was trying to understand what he was saying through the translation -- I know you spoke to several of these leaders out of Libya there at the United Nations, some of whom have remained friends with Gadhafi, some accusing him of genocide in his own country. From what I got, he said, "Either I rule you or I kill you," speaking to the violence. Seems to me he's drawing a line in the sand, and he's on the other side.
ROTH: Viewers should note how unique, almost unprecedented what we've been watching. An ambassador from a country speaking out against his president at the Security Council's famed horseshoe table. This does not happen often.
And this man is a longtime veteran of Libyan politics, former foreign minister, twice a U.N. ambassador. It's taken some time for him to come to this point. He has not wanted to appear before the media. It was his deputy which shocked the world on Monday when he told me in the lobby of the Libyan United Nations headquarters in New York that Gadhafi had to go. He's now in effect siding with his deputy and other Libyan diplomats who have resigned as they did in Geneva today or quit their posts, maybe seeing which way the wind was going.
BALDWIN: Also, Richard, since I have you here at the U.N., we also heard from Jay Carney at the White House saying that the embassies, diplomatic operations within Libya, would be closed. Is that effective immediately?
ROTH: Well, I can't speak to that time-wise, but President Obama will meet with the U.N. secretary general on Monday. There are intense rounds of sanctions being proposed by everyone now from the security council to the United States unilaterally, the European Union. The diplomatic arsenal, whatever the world could use against the Gadhafi regime, which intends of all intentions to hang on and toughen it out. It's all being lined up.
The question is will China and Russia quickly jump on board with the other countries who want to go after Gadhafi again with sanctions? That will just determine the timing or how tough this resolution is. There's some significant measures in this, but with fighting in the streets it may not matter much to the Gadhafi regime just what is done with their assets abroad. It hasn't worked in the past when they were hit with sanctions ten years ago. We have to see what might affect them.
BALDWIN: Richard Roth for me at the United Nations, you know Gadhafi very much so defiant, saying today we can destroy any armed violence with the armed people, yet his own former colleague we should say certainly drawing the line in the sand as you pointed out. Richard, thank you.
As we've been watching the scene unfolding, the live pictures from Malta, with 300 or so passengers finally getting off of this ferry chartered by the U.S. State Department, we have a passenger on the phone with me right now, Judith Drotar. Judith, are you with me?
JUDITH DROTAR, AMERICAN ON SHIP FROM LIBYA TO MALTA (via telephone): I am. How are you over there in Atlanta?
BALDWIN: Judith, I'm actually in Washington, D.C., but I think the better question is, how are you all the way over there in Malta? How are you? And how was the ride?
DROTAR: We're very tired. It was a very, very rough ride. But we're here, and I can't say enough for all the people that made this possible. The ferry company was unbelievable, and we're very grateful to the State Department for organizing this. There were a lot of nationalities on board, and we're all ecstatic and ready to disembark.
BALDWIN: I hear the excitement, Judith, in your voice. Do you feel, now that you are out of Libya and now on the island of Malta, do you finally feel safe?
DROTAR: That's a really complex question because I have to say only in the last four or five days did I feel slightly unsafe. I think the biggest problem for all of us was that everything happened so quickly that we no longer felt that we could trust our instincts, because prior to that we all felt pretty safe, you know?
So we're just happy to be out of an environment that we didn't understand and we didn't know what was going on. When all of our phones went down, we had no access to news and information. So that is always very difficult. In fact, just listening to you guys is interesting because we don't know much here. We're getting off the ferry to read our newspapers and watch CNN.
BALDWIN: We're glad you are, and we've been covering it with our global resources I tell you for the past week, two weeks here. Judith, I understand you were in Libya for three years. Tell me where you were and where you've been these past few days where you describe your communication just cut off.
DROTAR: I've been -- this is my fourth year in Libya, and, yes, the communications were cut off sporadically for about a week, you know. Obviously Facebook and all of that stuff went down first, and then the Internet went down. But where I worked there was a satellite so we were able to access the news that way. Then the phone lines al went down late Sunday night, and from there it just began unraveling really quickly.
BALDWIN: Where were you, in Tripoli?
DROTAR: Yes, in Tripoli. I work at the American school there.
BALDWIN: At the American school. And, Judith, we've heard all of these reports in particular in Tripoli, in Gadhafi's backyard essentially, where there has been escalating violence, reports today of sniper and artillery fire. What have you seen? A lot of people in Tripoli have talked about being prisoners in their own homes.
DROTAR: Yes. Well, you know, when the phone lines went down, I made a decision for all of the American school teachers to come together at the American school. And so we kind of stayed there for a couple of days until we could start trying to find people flights. And that we managed to get four people and two dependents out on Tuesday.
And then it just started deteriorating. So many people were trying to get out, and the infrastructure at the airport just couldn't accommodate that. So when, you know, the State Department pulled this together, I came on board with 22 teachers. and, boy, are we grateful.
Now, as far as what we saw, the school is out in the suburbs. We heard many things. We could hear gunshots at night. We did have a guard at the campus. And they assured us that we were safe, and we felt pretty safe there. But, as I said, it was falling apart really rapidly. I have to tell you that earlier this week we thought we were going to be running school all week. We were that --
BALDWIN: Did you really? Plans quickly changed for you. And, Judith, where are you literally this very second? Are you still on that ferry, or are you off? DROTAR: Yes. I'm on the ferry. And they're starting to disembark our group, which is all U.S. citizens. So I'm going to be sliding out of here in a few minutes, happily. I've been in the same clothes for five days. We can't wait for a shower.
BALDWIN: Oh, no. What was the mood like, Judith? This is the first time we're hearing from anyone on this ferry so this is so, so significant to be talking with you. What was the mood on board -- I know you were stuck for two days because of bad weather. Now finally the multi-hour journey through the Mediterranean, what were people saying?
DROTAR: Well, obviously it was very uncomfortable, but, you know, that was so minor compared to what we were experiencing emotionally because all of us came with, you know, one quick suitcase. We've left everything behind, you know. I've been working so hard to develop the school in the last four years, and we had to leave our little masterpiece behind.
But most importantly we left a lot of really wonderful Libyan people behind and so we're all very sad. So, you know, a little roughing it on the ferry was really minor compared to all of that.
BALDWIN: I think that's significant what you're saying, the fact that we here way over in the United States hear the excitement in your voice, that you are out of Libya and on this ferry about to be in Malta and away from the violence that you had heard, yet it's bittersweet because you're leaving behind people you loved. It's tough, isn't it?
DROTAR: Right. Yes, it is. Especially when we don't have any idea what's going on. You know, usually you can read stuff, and here none of us could. I mean, there's representatives from a lot of different oil companies on this ferry. I've talked to representatives from construction companies, embassies. We all were caught off guard.
And that's why everybody was trying to make an exodus at the same time, because we just -- other than a couple of companies that somehow read the picture a little better and got out sooner, you know, we were just all desperate to get out because we didn't know what was going to happen.
BALDWIN: You know what else struck me, Judith, watching some of these --
DROTAR: I want to put in a plug for the State Department.
BALDWIN: I think they hear you loud and clear. They hear your appreciation. But something else that struck me is the fact that when we were watching the first few people get off that ferry, there are a lot of children. Did you see a lot of kids?
DROTAR: Yes. Oh, yes. They were running all over the place. They were watching movies. In fact, when the tugboat finally came and it looked like we were going to be pulling out of port, at the same time they put on a video and it was "Star Wars." So we got to hear the theme of "Star Wars" as the tug was coming up to the boat. So we were very impressed. It was very, very dramatic.
BALDWIN: "Star Wars" playing on the ferry. Judith Drotar, we are so thrilled that you are safe, that these people are all safe getting off this ferry. We wish you well. Judith, thank you so much so much for calling me in Washington, D.C., from Malta. We appreciate it. We're going to get in a quick break and then continue our breaking coverage in Libya.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Welcome back here. We have just spoken with a woman who is of that ferry there in Malta. As we keep our eyes very closely on the ferry, 300 people, 168 of whom are Americans, they have been waiting to leave Libya, and have finally arrived in port in, Malta, and are thrilled to be on Maltese soil. We're not going too far from that story.
But I do want to move along and let's talk jobs, shall we. Fewer people joined the lines of unemployment offices around the country last week, and that is a small sign that the job market may be improving, even though it's happening very, very slowly. They are nodding, yes, very slowly.
The unemployment rate nine percent, and finding more ways to get people back to work is real one of the challenges for President Obama's brand new council on jobs and competiveness. And the panel met for the very first time yesterday.
One of the business leaders the president is turning to for advice on how to create jobs is AOL co-founder Steve Case. And I do want to start with something President Obama told your group there, Mr. Case.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to have to up our game in this newly competitive world, and that means we've got to out-educate every other country in the world. We're going have to out-innovate every country in the world. We've got to make sure that we've got the best infrastructure to move people and goods and services throughout the economy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So Steve Case, how do you like the president asking you for advice? Kind of a big --
STEVE CASE, COUNCIL FOR JOBS AND COMPETITIVENESS: I'm honored. I'm flattered. I'm happy to do my small part in trying to get the economy moving and create a lot of jobs.
BALDWIN: How did, and I know you're a big Twitter guy so we have twit pics of your meeting that we'll sneak up on the screen, but how did the first meeting go? CASE: Very well. It was an organizational meeting. Jeff Immelt is going to be heading this council on jobs and competitiveness and the president was there, senior cabinet officers, all the senior economic advisers and had a great discussion about the problem and some of the opportunities.
BALDWIN: You were on air force one?
CASE: Correct.
BALDWIN: Did you talk jobs with the president on board air force one?
CASE: Actually, separate from this. Another initiative called Start Up America, which I've agreed to chair and on Tuesday spent the whole day in Cleveland.
BALDWIN: There we go.
CASE: There was a discussion about the economy and jobs and particularly the role entrepreneurs play in creating jobs. If you look back at the last 25 years, 40 million jobs have been created by start-ups which is all the net new jobs in our economy. So big business, the fortune 500 is important wish use there, small business, main streets are important, but the real leverage of the growth businesses in the middle and that's really the focus of Start Up America.
BALDWIN: I think I heard you on an interview lately calling entrepreneurship the sort of special sauce.
CASE: Yes. I think it's a key driver of America. Always has been. America, by my view, what's really found by entrepreneurs and pioneers willing to take risk, and that's been true for a couple centuries and we need to celebrate that and recognize the entrepreneurs who have these great ideas to create innovative products and services that help make sure we're competitive in a global world, that's how we create the jobs that drive the economy.
BALDWIN: How right now, given the economy, and I know we're trying to improve, but the unemployment rate as I said, nine percent, still, people have the jitters. How do you convince someone, hey, start up a business?
CASE: It's not going to happen overnight, and entrepreneurs have always been willing to deal with risk. They are willing to tackle it, but creating an environment where it makes it a little more comfortable to take risk is important.
And celebrating entrepreneurship as the president has been starting to do I think is helpful. Looking at tax incentives to get other people to invest and the flow of capital is important and found mentorship is very important so one thing build up, America will be doing is mentoring just to make it easier to get started, looking at regulations to make sure there's not burdens there and anything we can do to make it easier to start companies and particularly easy to scale companies. It's not about startup but also these speedups. That's how we'll get the economy back on track.
BALDWIN: Part of the conversation with entrepreneurship has to be technology, right, but technology right now, everybody has, you know, your cell phone, you have you a laptop. It's ubiquitous, right, so how do you then take technology to the next level since we all have it and then grow jobs from that?
CASE: It's a huge opportunity. The last 25 years I think as the first internet revolution, trying to get internet out there, PCs out there and cell phones out there. I think the next 24, 25 years is the second internet revolution and how now that it is ubiquitous and people have mobile devices and using them habitually, how do you disrupt industries and create new ones? Health care is a huge opportunity.
BALDWIN: How, give me specifics.
CASE: Mobile health where can you use your phone to track different things, calories and walking and tie that into a database that reminds to you do certain things and tie that in with a community of other people with a shared interest in dealing with that and trying to stay well or dealing with a serious disease. There's a lot of ways that technology can help do that.
We're also seeing a lot of momentum in the commerce area, including retail, supporting main street merchants with companies like living social that we're involved in that's really making it easier for merchants to build an audience and giving consumers great deals. That's only possible because the Internet is now ubiquitous and mobile phones are now ubiquitous.
BALDWIN: What about people who are manufacturing sector? They have been, you know, a lot of them annihilated and many of them want to get back on the job, and they hear you talking about technology and think, well, how does this affect me? How can I then get a job back because of that?
CASE: Well, I think that's part of the reason why the president chose to go to Cleveland, which is associated with sort of the rustbelt, the industrial area.
BALDWIN: Exactly.
CASE: We've actually done a great job in Cleveland led by an organization called Jump Start and others that have really created I think thousands of new companies just in the past decade to really get things back on track in a variety of different sectors.
Health care, for example, happens to be an important example. The Cleveland clinic is based there had which helps anchor that. Each region is different and needs a different approach. The real focus is on expanding and building the entrepreneur eco-systems. Everyone knows about Silicon Valley and if you're a social media in the Silicon Valley you're doing pretty well.
BALDWIN: But the rest of the country? CASE: There are a lot of areas that need that kind of attention, and that's what we'll try to do in Start Up America, and the council is a great team of folks and with the president's support. I think We have to give him credit, because 90 days ago the White House wasn't even engaging with people and they are engaging with people and celebrating the role of entrepreneurship. I think that's a step forward, and we need to build on that.
BALDWIN: And so many people on the council taking time to listen, going around the country listening and establishing the priorities and going from there. Steve Case, a pleasure.
CASE: Good to see you.
BALDWIN: Good luck. We'll follow you on Twitter.
And Now to Wolf Blitzer here in Washington with the latest on the CNN Political Ticker. Hey, Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": One item, Brooke, that's moving here on the ticker that's generating a lot of buzz is this congressman from Georgia, Republican Paul Brown. He was at a town hall meeting and some elderly individual got up and asked him this pointed questions and I'll read it specifically. "Who is going to shoot Obama?" That was the question that was asked, and he really didn't respond to that.
He said the thing is I know there's a lot of frustration with this president. We're going to have an election next year. Hopefully we'll elect somebody that's going to be conservative, limited government president that will sign a bill to repeal and replace Obamacare. But he didn't repudiate that individual for asking a question like that, who is going to shoot Obama?
And remember, it's against the law to threaten a sitting president of the United States or an ex-president of the United States, federal officials for that matter as well. So a punishable crime, five years in prison, $250,000 fine simply for threatening the president of the United States.
He later issued a statement, Brown, saying Tuesday night at the town hall meeting in Georgia, an elderly man asked the important question and went on to repeat the question, "I was stunned by the question and chose not to dignify it with a response." And then he goes on to explain that it's inappropriate to ask a question like that.
This congressman though is very, very anti-Obama. He's made several controversial statements about the president of the United States, so it's generating a lot of buzz out there, a simple question like that, but one that potentially could be a crime. Brooke?
BALDWIN: Yes. We heard about it. It's frightening stuff down there in Georgia. Wolf Blitzer, thank you very much. We'll check in with you next hour, and I might try to sneak into "THE SITUATION ROOM" since I'm here in D.C. in your backyard. Wolf, thank you. Also, we'll also get another political update in half an hour. You can always get the latest news hot off the Political Ticker, go to CNNpolitics.com. And now as we are approaching the top of the hour here, watch this.
