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Moammar Gadhafi Defiant; Wisconsin Budget Battle Continues

Aired February 28, 2011 - 14:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Christine Romans, good to have in Atlanta and good to see you as well. Hi, there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. A lot happening right now, we're joggling a couple of events for you so I want to let you know about this.

Any minute now, the White House is scheduled to hold a press briefing, and in a rare move, we're actually going to hear from the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations that is Susan Rice. She is expected to make remarks on the situation in Libya. We are monitoring that for you.

Also, an alleged terror plot against the U.S., the target, commercial planes and the suspect actually works for British Airways. We are all over that story.

And just in here, kind of a wild weather situation. Take a look at the radar with me. We are just getting word that two tornadoes have touched down in Kentucky, and these are the first pictures of some of the damage we're seeing, thanks to our affiliate WLKY. Keep in mind, several other states also under tornado watches. Right now, Chad Myers, I see him out of the corner of my eye. He is working on it. We will have more from Chad here.

But first, this. Moammar Gadhafi's son probably summed up the current situation in the Middle East, this uprising, best when he actually said Libya is not Egypt or Tunisia. And, you know, that is true. Libya's leadership is reacting and responding to this whole wave of anti-government protests very, very differently than did the now deposed leaders of Egypt and Tunisia.

Moammar Gadhafi makes it clear he's not going anywhere alive. Developments today from Libya, take a look at this. A Libyan military jet dropped bombs on to one of their own military bases today. It was a base that was overrun and is now controlled by protesters. And CNN staffers actually were nearby. They saw the jet. They heard the explosions.

No word yet if anyone was hurt or killed in that bombing. But we're going to get more on that and what our own CNN's Ben Wedeman actually saw here in just a moment.

But also this -- a few soldiers in Libya are telling CNN that they no longer support their leader, the Gadhafi government, and are also joining this whole uprising after refusing to shoot into several peaceful demonstrations. Also the United Nations is estimating about 1,000 people have been killed in two weeks of clashes throughout Libya.

But now I want to share this with you, an amazing story that Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi likely does not want the world to see. It is coming from Nic Robertson, one of our senior international correspondents, in a town just about 40 minutes by car from Tripoli.

Nic was taken there to see a demonstration in support of the Gadhafi government, but I want you to watch what happened when he actually got there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The signs are saying and the crowd here are saying things like, Gadhafi, you bloodsucker; Gadhafi, you and your family have to go.

They're also calling, we want guns, we want guns.

(voice-over): Hard to imagine, barely a few miles away, just a few minutes earlier, government officials were showing us how Gadhafi's troops control the roads. As the officials drove us towards Zawiyah, that control evaporates.

(on camera): You can still smell the burning here, this police station only just burned, smoke rising up at the back here. All the trash from inside the police station brought out here, a burnt-out wrecked police vehicle here -- here, the tables and chairs from inside.

And if you look up here, it's been shuttered up, barricaded up. But when you look inside, the whole building is scorched inside.

(voice-over): A handful in the anti-government crowd tote new-looking weapons. Government officials claim weapons like these are being looted from the police and army, justifying, they say, shooting at protesters. These former soldiers who have brought their weapons with them tell us why they changed sides.

"The military chiefs, they are the ones who forced the soldiers to fire at the demonstrators," he says. Government officials (INAUDIBLE) not all the city is against Gadhafi, taking us to several pro- government rallies.

(on camera): This is the second pro-government rally that we have been brought to. A few people here are hooting their horns here in a line of traffic. But if you actually step back and look at the number of people who are protesting up there, the numbers are perhaps 50, 60, 70 at the most. It's quite a small crowd.

(voice-over): While our cameras are there, it quickly grows to several hundred, the crowd turning angry as we pull away. As we left the anti-government demonstration a little earlier, no anger directed at us, only concern. This former soldier tells me he expects the army to attack them, and soon.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BALDWIN: Nic Robertson reporting there on the ground in Libya.

And, you know, this whole international conversation over what to do about Moammar Gadhafi now has an American voice. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is in Geneva, Switzerland, today. She is attending a meeting of the United Nations Human Rights Council.

And speaking out just a short time ago, Secretary Clinton echoed President Obama's position that the Libyan leader must step down, and she took it a step farther. She put a timeline on it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Colonel Gadhafi and those around him must be held accountable for these acts, which violate international legal obligations and common decency. Through their actions, they have lost the legitimacy to govern. And the people of Libya have made themselves clear: It is time for Gadhafi to go - now, without further violence or delay.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, just want to remind you we are waiting to hear from Ben Wedeman, who has a pretty interesting story to tell from a town about 90 miles south of Benghazi, talking about this incident in which a Libyan military jet dropped bombs onto one of their own bases today.

Ben, his crew was nearby. So I will ask him about what they saw, what they heard, who was in charge. And, also, you see the little box on the bottom part of your screen? We're still watching and waiting for that White House daily briefing. It's just about six minutes behind. But the news item there, in addition to hearing from the press secretary, Jay Carney, is we're also going to be hearing from Susan Rice, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, obviously, topic number one for her, Libya. So, we will watch for that.

Also, coming up next, the governor of Wisconsin issuing an ultimatum to Democratic senators who have fled his state. What he says will happen if they don't come back by tomorrow. Ted Rowlands will join me live from inside the capitol there in Madison, where people have been holed. Take a look at this, live pictures. You still see live protesters there inside the rotunda two weeks into this thing.

Also, look at this video, people scrambling. A packed escalator in Washington, D.C., totally fails, sending people flying to the floor. There's surveillance video from this incident back in October being released today. We are going to explain what you're looking at next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Just in to us here at CNN, I mentioned this just minutes ago. We now have confirmed two tornadoes touching down in Kentucky in two counties. I have Dubois and Henry County.

I want to bring Michael Webb. He is with Kentucky State Police. And, Michael, just tell me -- describe the damage for me. What are you seeing or hearing? I'm not quite sure I can hear him. Michael, can you hear me? Guys, can we turn up his audio on the beeper?

Sorry, Michael. Let's try again. I couldn't really hear you. And if I can't hear you, no one else can. But we want to know how it's looking there in Kentucky. Be in touch.

Also, we want to know how it's looking like in Libya right now. I told you earlier that several witnesses, including our own CNN staffers, witnessed this Libyan air force jet attack on one of its bases today. This is in the eastern part off the country.

CNN's Ben Wedeman was one of those witnesses. And Ben is there live for me.

I believe, Ben, you're in Benghazi, but take me back to what you and your crew saw and heard.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brooke, we were outside Ashdabi (ph), which is about an hour-and-a-half drive to the west of Benghazi, and we heard an airplane overhead.

Now, you don't normally hear airplanes these days. Shortly afterwards, we heard a very large explosion. We went to where that explosion took place after sort of ascertaining the locations by talking to people along the way.

It was a military base where a lot of ammunition and heavy equipment is held. Now, the guards at the gate told us that a Russian-made plane from -- belonging to the Libyan air force dropped four to five bombs within the compound of the camp. And when we were there, in fact, we did hear some secondary explosions.

They said nobody was killed or injured in this bombing raid. But what happened afterwards is that the military in the area, of course, military who's come over to the side of the protesters, they started firing anti-aircraft guns into the air in a fairly wild manner. There was no airplane at that point to be seen in the area.

So nerves are very much on edge, and certainly after this bombing raid. We do know that the son of Moammar Gadhafi, Saif al-Islam Gadhafi, has said in interviews with Western media organizations that those air raids that they have conducted in the eastern part of the country were designed or intended to hit ammunition dumps to prevent those weapons and that ammunition falling into the hands of anti- Gadhafi forces -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: So, Ben, do we know who was at the helm of that military jet? I understand that Libyan state television later denied the bombings. So I just wanted to clarify that with you. And, also, what would this speak to as far as Gadhafi's eroding grip on power?

WEDEMAN: Well, it would indicate that he still has the ability to launch his airplanes and send them over to the eastern part of the country. And, of course, we did hear the denial from Libyan state TV, but we saw it, we heard it with our own eyes. So, I don't think it would be anybody else bombing eastern Libya -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: What about this -- really it's a current standoff between -- you know, you have eastern Libya and you have western Libya. I mean, what -- in speaking with Libyans, Ben, what do they want? Who or how does this stalemate get broken?

WEDEMAN: Well, everybody you speak to in this part of the country is very enthusiastic about the idea of organizing some sort of military force to head west and go all the way to the capital, Tripoli.

But what you see on the ground is that they're really not prepared. In fact, we went to one base to the west of here and saw that they had 10 T-54 Soviet tanks. Those date back, of course, to the 1950s.

The tanks seem to be in fairly good condition, but apparently a lot of the tank drivers fled west as well to Tripoli. So they don't really have the ability in terms of organization. I did speak to one general who's defected to the anti-Gadhafi forces. And I asked him, do you have a plan? Do you have a detailed plan to take the fight to Tripoli? And what he said was that, our plan is as follows. We will unite the people. We will form a combat unit and go to Tripoli and liberate it.

So it seems they're very long on enthusiasm, but short on practical details -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Also, though, Ben, there is such momentum now here, momentum in terms of the mounting international pressure for Gadhafi to go away. You hear from Secretary Clinton. She says it is time for Gadhafi to go now without further violence or delay.

Also in talking to the Libyans, are they even aware of this mounting international support, or are they just in a such a vacuum without Internet or communication?

WEDEMAN: No, they do have communications. They do watch a lot of satellite television in Arabic and other languages, so they're very well aware of what is going on in the outside world. And, by and large, they're encouraged, because, when we first arrived here a week ago, the impression of many Libyans we spoke to was that the West was simply not putting pressure on Moammar Gadhafi, that they were taking a fairly passive approach.

Now, increasingly, we see, with talk of a no-fly zone, of sanctions on travel restrictions on key members of the Libyan regime, people are encouraged. But this situation seems to have hit something of a stalemate, with the eastern part of the country under the control of anti-Gadhafi forces, Moammar Gadhafi still very much in control of the capital.

It seems that it may take some sort of outside push perhaps to break this stalemate -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Ben Wedeman for us live in Libya -- Ben, thanks to you and safety to your crew here.

Also, some breaking developments in that Falcon Lake murder. You remember this story from several months ago? A woman said a group attacked and killed her husband in this lake right near the Texas/Mexico border? Well, they never found his body, but there is some news on that. That is next.

Also, we are watching and waiting to see Jay Carney step behind that podium, the daily White House briefing running now 16 minutes late. But it's also significant today because we're waiting for Susan Rice. She's the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations and I'm sure what will be pervasive through her conversation will be the topic of Libya. We will bring that to you live.

CNN NEWSROOM will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Just in here, police in Texas identifying two more suspects in this murder mystery near the border. We have been following this case. I know you know the story. We're talking about David Hartley. This whole thing happened last year. His wife, there she is, Tiffany, says a group of people shot him when they were out on this lake out riding jet skis.

So she got away, but investigators have yet to find her husband's body. Police say the suspects are drug traffickers and they apparently were apparently ordered to find and to kill Tiffany Hartley. That is the latest that we're getting this afternoon. Of course, if we get any other updates, we will pass them along.

But now to Wisconsin. Picture this. You have hundreds of people camped inside that Statehouse there in Madison, two weeks now to protest the governor's planned spending cuts. And, tomorrow, somehow, the governor is supposed to get in there, pass all these hundreds or thousands of protesters to present his new budget to the state legislature.

Ted Rowlands is still there for us in Madison.

And, Ted, how is that supposed to work? We see the crowds. Governor Walker is supposed to get in there. How is that going to happen?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, actually, they have made a lot of progress here, in that they have secured this level and the areas where the governor would have to move from his office.

He's giving his speech tomorrow basically up these stairs at the full Assembly. His office is just over here, and they have pretty much cleared this entire area. So you could see that all he has to do is -- and he can get to his office from back channels -- go from his office and walk literally to the Assembly to give his speech. That won't be a problem.

In fact, the only guy left here is Mordecai (ph). He says he won't leave because he doesn't feel as though he can't give up the -- quote -- "territory." They haven't arrested him. They are going to let him just stay there. All the other protesters, Brooke, are down here. And their numbers have dwindled considerably as well because the police have locked the doors. They have moved people out throughout the night, as people have had to leave because of jobs, et cetera. And they're not letting anybody in unless they have an appointment with their lawmaker.

So, they have been able to reduce the numbers inside considerably. There are couple hundred people outside chanting, let us in, let us in. But the answer to your question, the governor will be able to get from his office to the chambers to make a speech tomorrow.

BALDWIN: He will be able to do it, past Mordecai (ph) and couple dozen people, it looks like there, Ted.

But let's talk about tomorrow, because Tuesday is so significant. That's the day Governor Scott Walker is planning on explaining his budget. It's the whole deadline to pass the current budget. But then you have those 14 Democratic state senators who fled town. Are they taking the deadline of tomorrow seriously, Ted?

ROWLANDS: Yes and no. Here's what they're saying, is, first of all, there's two things the governor is saying. We can't -- we cannot restructure some debt if we don't do it quickly within the next few days. He's moved that deadline around. So Democrats say, you know what, that's a fluid number.

And the other thing he's saying is, if we don't get this resolved by Tuesday I'm going to have to start laying people off. Well, to that, they say, you know what? You could meet us in the middle and start negotiating. You too have the ability to end this stalemate.

Both sides are holding firm, and it doesn't look like anybody is going to flinch before Tuesday. So, the ramifications are yet to be seen, but these deadlines have all come and gone. And I suspect Tuesday's will as well.

BALDWIN: Wow. Two weeks. No one is budging. Today -- tomorrow, I should say, a huge, huge day. We will check back in with you, Ted Rowlands in Madison. Thank you.

And let's talk about hail, shall we? That will do a little damage on the car. Folks, this is hail coming down in Oklahoma, and there are now tornado watches in effect in the Southeast. We mentioned those two tornadoes in touching down in Kentucky. We will explain what else you need to know.

Also, just moments ago, Charlie Sheen's publicist says, "I'm leaving," announcing he's resigning after Sheen gives another bizarre interview -- the latest on Charlie Sheen coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER UPDATE)

BALDWIN: And an ordinary trip on the subway turns into something treacherous. I want you to watch this newly released surveillance video. Watch, everyone, as they're coming down the escalator, right?

So, this is a Metro D.C. -- I think it was the L'Enfant stop, Metro stop, if you know D.C. This is after a rally in October. And you see everyone kind of tumbling down. Well, everyone was OK, but there was some sort of escalator malfunction. People started, you know, falling on top of one another. A couple of them were hurt, one seriously. Transit officials say it was the brakes on the escalator failed. So now the escalator brake lines on Metro -- Metro lines there in D.C. are being inspected much more frequently.

Take a look at some other top stories right now.

A British Airways employee convicted of four terror-related charges, including a plot to blow up a plane in the U.S. Prosecutors say Rajib Karim used his job as a software engineer to pass on information to al Qaeda's affiliate in Yemen, including U.S.-born radical cleric Anwar al-Awlaki.

And just in a couple of minutes, I will be speaking with a CNN terrorist analyst, Paul Cruickshank, about the latest on that terror plot and what that means for us here in the States.

Also, so many of you were talking about this today. Charlie Sheen, did you catch him, these interviews on TV? He's returning to television, but not in an acting capacity, per se. Last week, you know, he was ranting, some 28-minute rant on a radio station. Now the "Two and a Half Men" co-star sounding off on several TV network interviews. Strong words, insults, more bravado. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLIE SHEEN, ACTOR: I am on a drug. It's called "Charlie Sheen." It's not available, because if you try it once you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body. Too much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CBS shut down production of "Two and a Half Men" late last week after Sheen lashed out on one of those radio morning shows. Sheen is threatening to sue CBS. And just moments ago we learned that Charlie Sheen's publicist resigned.

Coming up next hour, we'll talk about Charlie Sheen with founder of intervention 911.com, former interventionist from the A&E TV show "Intervention." I want to know what he thought when he watched Charlie Sheen on some of those interviews and what he would do if he was advising him on an intervention.

We have been watching for this White House daily briefing to start. It was supposed to start a half hour ago. I want to bring in Richard Roth at the United Nations. Richard, I'm talking to you because we're waiting also to hear from Susan Rice, U.S. ambassador to the U.N. what do we anticipate? Obviously Libya, but what more?

RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki- moon traveled to Washington to meet President Barack Obama. And that's always the custom. When the U.N. secretary-general is in your country's capital, your ambassador is there, and that's why Susan Rice is there at this tension-filled moment regarding Libya.

White House spokesman Jay Carney may come out. I'm not sure who will be briefing. But at the U.N. Security Council Saturday night there was a big resolution agreed on which put sanctions on Libya and referred anyone in Libya who committed crimes against humanity for possible investigation at the International Criminal Court.

So you're likely to hear discussion and questions. Will the U.S. push for a no fly zone over Libya with or without U.N. involvement? What are the --

BALDWIN: How can that happen, Richard? Let me jump in with regard to the no-fly zone. It can't just be the U.S. who pipes up and says no- fly zone. Does that go through NATO?

ROTH: Well, it should. The U.S. is supposed to, according to the U.N., not really set something like that up without international approval. The U.S. tried to get more wording in the resolution to make sure that like with the Iraq war they felt they had the right to establish a no-fly zone or go in. There will always be a disagreement about interpretations. Let's listen to White House spokesman Jay Carney.

SUSAN RICE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: Good afternoon, everyone. I want to start by giving you a brief readout of the president's meeting with U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon. As you might expect, a significant portion of that meeting was devoted to discussing the situation in Libya.

The U.N. has played a positive and very important role in efforts to end the bloodshed there and to hold the Gadhafi regime accountable and support the Libyan people. Indeed, in Libya the United Nations is demonstrating the indispensable role it can play in advancing our interests and defending our values.

We'll come back to Libya in a few minutes, but let me just finish with the readout of the president's meeting with the secretary-general. The president and the secretary-general also discussed the situation elsewhere in the Middle East as well as the situation in Cot de Voir. They express their concern about the escalation of violence there and the need to enable the legitimately elected president to assume responsibility for governing Cot De Voir.

They also discussed the historic referendum that recently took place in southern Sudan where the people overwhelmingly voted for independence, and they discussed the vital work that the U.N. and the international community have still to do along with the parties to the Sudanese conflict to ensure lasting peace as the south gains its independence in July of this year.

The president and secretary-general also discussed their shared agenda to build on the strengths of the United Nations while pursuing and implementing very important management reforms as well as budgetary discipline.

And finally president Obama reaffirmed the administration's strong belief that the United Nations continues to play a vital role in addressing tough global and transnational threats and in doing so its work enhances the safety and well-being of the American people.

Now, coming back to Libya, as you know on Saturday night in New York the Security Council unanimously adopted resolution 1970, a tough and binding set of sanctions aimed at stopping the Libyan regime from killing its own people.

As you know from the very beginning of the crisis in Libya we've been clear, that it's vitally important for the international community to speak with one voice, and it has done so with an unusual and important sense of urgency, determination, and unity of purpose. This resolution that we passed had several important components. First, it refers the situation in Libya directly to the international criminal court. This is the first time that the Security Council has unanimously voted to refer a case of heinous human rights violations to the ICC.

Secondly, it includes a travel ban and assets freeze on key Libyan leaders. It imposes a complete arms embargo on Libya and mechanisms to enforce it. And, finally, it takes new steps against the use of mercenaries by the Libyan government to attack its own people and it facilitates the delivery of vital humanitarian assistance.

These sanctions and accountability mechanisms make all members of the Libyan regime think about the choice they have before them. Violate human rights and be held accountable, or stop the violence and respect the Libyan people's call for change. There's no escaping that critical choice.

Meanwhile, all the members of the United Nations Security Council are united in their determination that these sanctions work and work as swiftly as possible. But the Security Council has not finished its business and will continue to monitor the situation in Libya quite closely.

And I'll reiterate what the president said over the weekend. Now is the time for Colonel Gadhafi to step aside to prevent further bloodshed and to allow the Libyan people to have a government that is responsive to their aspirations. I'm happy to take a few of your questions.

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I just want, if I could, I'll call on people. What I'd like to do is do all questions for ambassador rice now and get to other issues of after that. Darlene, why don't you start?

QUESTION: Thank you. Madam Ambassador, can you update us on the status of the talks for instituting a no-fly zone. How far along are those talks?

RICE: As Secretary Clinton said in Geneva today, these talks are underway with our partners in NATO and elsewhere. We have made clear that is it an option that we're considering and considering actively and seriously.

QUESTION: Are you prepared to offer material support to the anti- government rebels in Libya?

RICE: Well, we are first of all in communication with all sorts of elements of Libyan society, civil owe sight, leaders of all sorts to understand their perspectives and be able to be as supportive as we can of the Libyan people's aspirations for freedom and for justice.

It's unclear at this point who will emerge as the critical opposition elements, and we await to see how the opposition will coalesce. And in that context I think is premature to begin to talk about any kind of military assistance.

QUESTION: Dr. Rice, thanks for being here. In an interview with several reporters, Moammar Gadhafi said that he's not going anywhere. He's never used force. All my people loved me. And he expressed surprise that the United Nations would impose sanctions and implement a travel ban based purely on media reports. I was wondering if you had any response to any of the things he said in the interview.

RICE: It sounds, just frankly, delusional. And when he can laugh in talking to American and international journalists while he is slaughtering his own people it only underscores how unfit he is to lead and how disconnected he is from reality.

It makes all the more important the urgent steps that we have taken over the course of the last week on a national basis as well as the steps we've taken collectively through the United Nations and the Security Council. And we're going to continue to keep the pressure on.

You've seen reports about the massive quantity of resources, some $30 billion, at that the treasury department has seized since the assets freeze went into effect on Friday. In light of the fact that Colonel Gadfahi and his son Seif say they have no resources out there to be seized, that they've led a clean and uncorrupt life.

ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: When you talk about Colonel Gadhafi slaughtering 0 his own people, he appeared to be doing that a week or so, even longer. And yet the president stopped short of calling for regime change until this weekend. So why did it take so long for you to call for regime change? The president was saying it's up to the Libyan people. Now you're saying Gadfahi has to go. He's been slaughtering his people for days.

RICE: First of all, it is up to the Libyan people. And we will continue to be very supportive of their efforts to achieve the universal rights and the freedoms and the opportunity that they are seeking. I think we have been very, very clear about what is right and what is moral in this situation and what has been unacceptable and inexcusable violence, and we have taken very strong and very swift actions to confront that.

On Friday we froze the assets of Libya's leaders, and on Monday $30 billion, an unprecedented quantity of resources, have been seized in just over the last several days. On Saturday, the Security Council with U.S. and leadership of others moved at a speed that is -- I can tell you from my experience -- almost unheard of to pass unanimously a resolution that not only imposed a travel ban and assets freeze and arms embargo but referred the situation in Libya for the first time on a unanimous basis to the International Criminal Court.

BALDWIN: U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice speaking with Ed Henry there back-and-forth on what's happening in Libya. What's so significant, she's mentioning that the resolution that was passed Saturday and many of which of these votes were unanimous, that the situation now refer directly to the International Credit Court. It's the first case unanimously referred to the ICC.

I want to bring in back in Richard Roth. Richard, I tell you what, what really perked my ears was when she was asked, despite all these sanctions how Moammar Gadfahi is surprised about the sanctions and she said, quite frankly, that sounds delusional. These leaders now, international community, not parsing their words.

ROTH: Yes, Colonel Gadfahi is one of the few world leaders that I think ambassador rice minces no words about. A year and a half ago when he came in the General Assembly she warned about what he might say or do here. As you remember that was a 90 minute rambling speech where he ripped up the U.N. charter.

Most notable in her comments, U.S. looking at all options, including when asked about a no fly zone with the goal of keeping the skies free of any Libyan helicopter, gunships, airplanes used to attack civilians. Earlier in the day the White House spokesman echoed similar comments. She said it would be best for Gadfahi to go and American officials reaching out to Libyan society.

Washington I'm sure eager to find people in the opposition who they can start reaching out to and who might fill a vacuum if the Gadfahis step aside or are no longer on the scene.

BALDWIN: Richard Roth, thank you as always for your perspective.

And next, he admits to carrying out what has been called the biggest scam in history, but Bernie Madoff says he's a good guy. He calls the government "one big Ponzi scheme." You're actually going to hear his voice in some of these prison confessions.

Plus, I'll be speaking with the daughter of two of Madoff's victims, and she says she became physically ill after hear his interview. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Wall Street's biggest swindler Bernie Madoff says there's a scam victim you haven't heard about -- him. Madoff talking to New York magazine saying he suffered along about the other victims of the Ponzi scheme. He spoke from the federal prison where he is serving 150 years for masterminding the scam that cost investors billions of dollars. Some people lost everything. But Madoff says he deserves credit for helping people make money. Listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERNARD MADOFF, CONVICTED OF FRAUD: All the A and B clients, all of my friends, everybody else, you know, it was the people that came in very late in the game that got hurt. So did I make a lot of money for people? Yes. I made a lot of money for people. You know, did people lose profits that they thought they made? Yes. You know, but did they lose capital? I'm sure -- I'm confident that when this thing is all finished very few people, if any, will lose their principal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So maybe he thinks he did right by some of these people biff making them some money. I want you to listen to one more snippet. This is when he says he was talked into these pyramid schemes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MADOFF: If you think that I did this, I woke up one morning and said, listen, I want to be able to buy a boat and a plane, and this is what I'm going to do, that's wrong. I had more than enough money to sue port any of my lifestyle and my family's lifestyle. You know, I didn't need to do this for that. I just you know allowed myself to be talked into something. And that's my fault.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: "I allowed myself to be talked into something and that's my fault." That was Bernie Madoff. My next guest's parents lost just about everything they had. Ilene Kent is one of the founders of InvestorAction.org, a group that tries to help some of these victims of securities fraud. And Ilene, you heard his voice. We played two different snippets. How do you feel when you hear his voice? Are you sick to your stomach at all?

ILENE KENT, FOUNDER, INVESTORACTION.ORG: Yes. I get this feeling in the pit of my stomach. I just can't believe he's saying these things. I guess the really sad part is that he really believes it. He has no remorse for the devastation that he's left in his wake.

You've got many -- he says he really feels badly for the investors. Well, the earlier investors people like my parent, who are much older, many widowed. Thankfully my parents have been married for 65 years in a couple of weeks.

BALDWIN: How much did your parents lose?

KENT: They lost a good chunk of their retirement. I really don't feel comfortable saying how much. What really matters is what's left, and there's not much left because this man was a thief. Anybody could have understood a market decline. What nobody thought was that their money manager would steal their money.

BALDWIN: You know, this article -- I know you read every word here, I read all 13 pages as well, and part of it he talks about individual investors, i.e., your parents, who, and I'm going to read this as a quote, "at least tacitly played along with the game. Their friends had to tell them. How could you be making 15 percent and 18 percent when everybody else is making less money? Believe me, if you don't think they had doubts, they had doubts." Did your parents have doubts? Would they have shared their doubts with you?

KENT: No, absolutely not. And 15 percent to 18 percent, I don't know where he's getting that from. The trustee and a couple of his lawsuits have claimed that the people, the insiders, were boasting about 18 percent to 25 percent returns. I don't know any individual investor who received anywhere near 18 percent except in the years when the S&P was at 20 percent.

BALDWIN: So your parents, neither your mom or your dad, no red flag, no questioning over the money they were making?

KENT: Oh, god no. This really goes back to his -- he's diverting the blame, trying to blame the victims. The intrepid fraud investigator who tried to turn the SEC four or five or six times, he in his book made it very clear there's no way the individual investor, people like my parents, people like the thousand members of our organization, there no way for them to know that this was a Ponzi scheme. People like JP Morgan chase, however, that's a different story.

BALDWIN: Ilene, just quickly here, if you were sitting across from Bernie Madoff in Butner Prison and you could ask him one question, I'm sure you've thought about this, what would your one question be?

KENT: Bernie, if you really want us to believe that you want to set the record straight, why are you not talking to the criminal investigators?

BALDWIN: He's talking to the "New York" magazine and the "New York Times" but not the folks you want him to answer to, it sounds like. Ilene Kent, appreciate you for coming on. And happy anniversary to your parents.

KENT: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: It was the night of the king at the Oscars, but making headlines today, how the stars looked on the red carpet. We break down the best and worst dressed celebs. And can you also guess by looking at some of this what the new trend could be? That's next.

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BALDWIN: OK, come on. Admit it. It's one of life's guilty pleasures. I'm talking about the red carpet at the Oscars. All like to tune in and see who is wearing what and maybe more of what we don't like. And then we spend the next day sorting through the trends, talking about the hits and misses and what's trending today, most definitely.

Nicole Vecchiarelli is the senior entertainment editor with "In Style" magazine joins us. The March issue is on newsstands right now. Nicole, host Anne Hathaway, she changed her outfit eight times, and we know Rachel Zoe. NICOLE VECCHIARELLI, SENIOR ENTERTAINMENT EDITOR, "IN STYLE": Eight times.

BALDWIN: You've got to have people do it that quickly.

VECCHIARELLI: Her hair was changing, too. Going up, going down.

BALDWIN: Amazing.

VECCHIARELLI: I thought she hit the mark every single time. She did an excellent job. I mean, she really embodies what is totally, you know, just a glamorous host. She was so Hollywood, whether she was wearing red or beaded or, you know, the tuxedo was so sexy. Did a wide range and looked amazing every single time.

I loved the last dress that she wore. This royal blue Armani dress and loved the text doe. Those were the two favorites.

BALDWIN: I love tuxedo. I thought it was so hot, but she could look hot in a brown paper bag, I think.

VECCHIARELLI: Exactly.

BALDWIN: What really stood out for you last night? Who stood out?

VECCHIARELLI: Well, to me I thought that there was -- it was interesting to see that there were some trends on the carpet and that there was a lot of women wearing these figure-hugging, very sexy body conscious dresses and that's, you know, a trend that you see not just on the red carpet but on the runway for the rest of us to be able to embrace, too. You looked at Amy Adams dress, Jennifer Lawrence, Penelope Cruz, these women all had figure-hugging, sexy dresses. They looked amazing.

And there was also some interesting trends in terms of hair and makeup. You saw a little bit less of the super glammed up up-do and people looking a little bit more natural with a natural wave to their hair, too.

BALDWIN: I like that. I'm a natural kind of gal.

But what about I loved "true grit," Haley Steinfeld, 14 years of age, how did she do? It was like a princess dress.

VECCHIARELLI: I thought she really hit it out of the park. I mean, it's really hard to go -- I can imagine to go to an event like that when you're 14 years old and not come of that you're looking too grown up and not come off that you're looking too little girlish. You still want to be glamorous and make it a special night.

She work this beautiful princess dress with the little sweet headband, so there was an element to her that was still girlish and sophisticated and elegant.

BALDWIN: Quickly, Nicole, who missed the mark, if you had to pick one person? VECCHIARELLI: Honestly, I think everyone did an amazing job.

BALDWIN: Oh, come on.

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VECCHIARELLI: Some people like to focus -- some people like to focus in on, you know, Helena Bonham Carter because in the past she's made really outlandish and eccentric choices, so people were waiting to see what she wore, but I thought she completely pulled it off. The amazing thing that's her style and she wears it well so you can't fault her for it.

BALDWIN: Yes, she worked it. Nicole, thanks so much for dishing fashion with us the day after the Oscars.

And coming up, an alleged terror plot against the U.S. The target, commercial planes, and the suspect apparently worked for one of the airlines.

Also, Wolf Blitzer is here with brand new information just in from the world of politics, including news about Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney. That's CNN Political Ticker rolling at you next.

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