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Discussion of Obama-Calderon Press Conference; Newt Gingrich Considering GOP Run for President; Pension Problems in Pittsburgh

Aired March 03, 2011 - 14:03   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: President Barack Obama and Mexican President Felipe Calderon holding really an extensive press conference there.

I want to bring back in "The Best Political Team on Television," CNN's Wolf Blitzer, and also Gloria Borger.

Gloria, you said you wanted to hear from the president about Libya. You thought many Americans wanted to hear that. And that's the first thing he addressed, was that.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, he did. And for the first time verbally, because he has said it in a written statement, he did say that Gadhafi has to go.

He really put him on notice in no uncertain terms. He said that he's ordered a full range of options, although he did not specifically call for the establishment of a no-fly zone. And he did allow that there is a danger over time of a bloody stalemate developing there.

What he did order the use of military aircraft for is some relief from that border issue they've got with refugees going across the border there. And it's clear that the military is going to try and help and intervene in the refugee crisis in some way, shape or form.

But he was very clear that this is something the United States is watching, and that -- one of the things he said that interested me, and I'd be interested in hearing what Wolf has to say about it, is that one of the successes of Egypt he said was the ownership of what happened in Egypt that the people felt. And it was one way of him saying, you know, this cannot be about America. It has to be about the Libyan people.

LEMON: And he did. The last question, as he was about to give it to Felipe Calderon, someone said -- one of the -- I guess the person who asked the original question said, "Are you considering a no-fly zone?"

And he said, Wolf, yes, that is one possibility.

BORGER: Sure.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, he's considering a full range of military options. He didn't outline what those military options in Libya, per se, are. He didn't say he would go forward with a no-fly zone which, in effect, means air strikes first to knock out the Libyan air defense capabilities, the radar systems, the anti-aircraft guns, and all of that. He said he's reviewing all those options.

He wasn't asked about arming the opposition, the opponents of Moammar Gadhafi's regime. So he didn't get into that, although they're considering a wide range of options.

On the use of U.S. military force, he did say he was going to let U.S. military aircraft go into Tunisia, next door to Libya, where tens of thousands of refugees, mostly Egyptian refugees, have now crowded into camps along the border to try to get them back to Egypt. It raises the question, what about the Egyptian air force? Why aren't Egyptian planes being used to move Egyptian citizens from Tunisia back to Egypt?

Egypt has a pretty large air force as well, with a lot of the military transport planes. They can charter planes, as well. So why is the United States doing that? That's a question that the Pentagon and the U.S. administration, the Obama administration, is going to have to answer at some point down the road.

I will say this, Don. Probably the most thing the president just said is that all of those military forces, those senior officers, the commanders, the elite surrounding Moammar Gadhafi, they'd better be very careful, because if they engage in mass killings, if they start killing fellow Libyans, they will be held accountable not only by the International Court of Justice, but by the international community, especially by the Libyan people down the road themselves.

The president said history is on the side of those opposed to Gadhafi right now. So he's warning them.

Here's the basic difference between Libya right now and what happened in Tunisia earlier and what happened in Egypt more recently.

In Tunisia and in Egypt, the militaries refused to kill fellow Tunisians or fellow Egyptians. That's why the leaders of those two countries are out.

In Libya right now, the Libyan military, at least a big chunk of it, still ready to kill fellow Libyans. And the president is saying to those military officers and those who kill fellow Libyans, if you do it, you're going to pay a price. Be careful, think twice.

He's trying to wean them away from Gadhafi. That might be a successful strategy, because I think the people in Libya, especially the military elite, they're beginning to get nervous right now.

LEMON: Yes. And you took the words right out of my mouth, Wolf. You were reading my mind.

He said, "Colonel Gadhafi has to step down now." That was very clear language. "Has to step down from power and leave. It's good for his country and it's good for his people." And then he went on to say what you said. "Those around him are being watched closely and will be held accountable. History is moving against Colonel Gadhafi." And he started that by saying, "I want to say with great clarity that he has lost legitimacy," and said he did not want to mince words.

BORGER: It's part of trying to isolate Gadhafi. I mean, the feeling is that you want to give people who are close to him, put them on notice and say look, you'd better not be with him, you know? And you'd better leave, because whether it's an International Criminal Court or whatever, we'll be holding you accountable.

That's part of the reason, by the way, that they are freezing assets of the elite, because they're not going to get access to their money either. So they have a moment now to make a decision, as Wolf was saying, and the president is saying, you know, either you're with us or you're against us. So you're on notice.

LEMON: Gloria Borger, Wolf Blitzer.

Wolf, we'll be watching you at 5:00 p.m. Eastern as you cover the story.

BLITZER: Thanks, Don.

BORGER: Thanks.

LEMON: Thank you.

Want to move on now and talk about some other big stories that are happening here.

This just in. A federal judge in Florida has issued a stay on his ruling, his earlier ruling this year, that the Obama administration's health care bill could not be enforced.

President Obama signed the bill last March. In today's order, Judge Roger Vinson put a hold on his January 31st ruling and told the administration to expedite an appeal into whether current parts of the health care law can remain in effect.

Vinson ruled earlier that the individual mandate requiring most Americans to purchase health insurance or face financial penalties was unconstitutional, and he tossed out the entire bill. He said the administration may have perhaps been confused or misunderstood his ruling.

Make sure you stay with us for updates on that story.

Wisconsin state Democrats have until 4:00 p.m. local time return to the Capitol in Madison or they'll be held in contempt. Wisconsin's state Senate approved the resolution this morning.

If the Democrats don't return, law enforcement officials could go out with a warrant to detain them and bring them back to Senate chambers. They left the state to prevent a vote on the governor's budget plan which guts collective bargaining rights for teachers and other state workers.

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich just finished a news conference here in Georgia where we learned he is going into an exploratory phase for his presidential run. Again, this happened a short time ago, just as Presidents Obama and Calderon were speaking.

Gingrich, certainly not a Washington outsider, gained political momentum with his 1994 "Contract With America." That helped put the GOP in control of the House for the first time in 40 years and got him elected Speaker. He announced he would not seek a third term as Speaker of the House in 1998, and left Congress the following year as he battled ethics violations.

And just yesterday, Fox News announced it was suspending Gingrich's contract, as well as the contract of former Pennsylvania senator Rick Santorum, until both make their presidential aspirations clear. Santorum is also supposedly mulling a run, as well as visiting Iowa, South Carolina, and New Hampshire next week.

"The Best Political Team on Television" is covering all of this from all of the angles.

CNN's Jessica Yellin just left that news conference where Newt Gingrich spoke, and she joins us now live.

So we were watching President Obama and President Calderon. This was going on. What did Newt Gingrich have to say, Jessica?

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Don.

Gingrich said that he wants to help this country re-establish what he calls American exceptionalism. He believes that there's an opportunity to shrink the size of government, empower citizens, and reduce spending. And for all those reasons, which we've heard from him before, he thinks that he is going to consider even more seriously running for president.

I would say he thrust his toe more deeply into the water. It was -- this season is just unusual. It was a non-announcement announcement, going further than he's ever gone before, in saying that he is going to seriously look at, methodically study forming an exploratory commit, which is the first serious step to running for president.

He's put a Web site up. I think it's Newt2012.com. And that he will take all the necessary steps to walk down this road.

What sort of is fascinating here, Don, is that there have been these sort of jerky stops and goes. First, we were told that he was going to announce an exploratory committee, then he wasn't today. And then his team said he was going to hold a half an hour press conference, taking reporters' questions.

It turns out, he let one reporter ask a question. I shouted one, and he wouldn't answer and walked out. So, there's always been this history of a little bit of messy organization around Newt Gingrich, and you sort of wonder what's going on with the team right now. But he does say that he is taking the next necessary steps. And he is a formidable contender, and we will certainly be following him and hear a lot more from him in the days to come -- Don.

LEMON: Messy organization, Jessica, or is he just hedging? Because we thought he was going to make an announcement -- at least, I am going to have an exploratory committee, or at least create an exploratory committee. But then he just said, I just have a Web site that is looking into the possibility?

YELLIN: Well, you know, there are legal hurdles you have to go through, and closing down certain businesses and extracting certain ties before you can formally do other things. And it would seem that that is going on behind the scenes now.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Hey, Jessica, can I interrupt you just for a second?

YELLIN: Yes.

LEMON: Because I'm sure viewers are hearing it, it's a little bit distracting. You're keeping your cool there.

What is that shouting and noise going on behind you? And does it have anything to do with the event that you're covering?

YELLIN: This is not related to Newt Gingrich's announcement. It's an unrelated issue. We don't have to get into it.

LEMON: OK. All right. Continue. I'm sorry.

YELLIN: Yes -- no.

LEMON: The legal issues surrounding it?

YELLIN: But to give you a broader context on Newt Gingrich, he is a man who has been known for his bold ideas, his intense charisma, his extreme enthusiasm for politics. He has a way of getting this contagious enthusiasm around him, building true grassroots support.

The criticism has always been about sort of his discipline and prioritizing which issues to pursue, and following up. And so as we watch this evolve, we'll see if those old criticisms of Speaker Newt Gingrich are still true as he looks into a presidential run. So far, some herky-jerky stops and starts in this early announcement phase.

LEMON: You are part of "The Best Political Team on Television," and you're an absolutely great correspondent to keep your cool with all that shouting, and to keep your train of thought.

Thank you, Jessica Yellin. We appreciate your reporting. You think Wisconsin has budget issues? We've been talking about that a lot. It looks like pension problems could crush the Steel City. And the pension battle there could play out in the cities and states and cities across the country.

Details, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back, everyone.

The Steel City of Pittsburgh is proud of its football team and their Super Bowl success last month. But now the black and yellow is in red. You hear that?

Pittsburgh is in the midst of a battle to fix its broken budget.

CNN's Jim Acosta has more on a city that's getting blitzed by its own employee pension plan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The fiscal house is on fire in Pittsburgh. Unless the city can get a handle on its out- of-control pension costs for its firefighters and other public workers, local leaders have said they are facing financial Armageddon.

(on camera): Is that overstating it?

MAYOR LUKE RAVENSTAHL (D), PITTSBURGH: Well, I think we're headed that way. The reality is --

ACOSTA: You're heading towards Armageddon?

RAVENSTAHL: We'll, we're heading towards very difficult scenarios.

ACOSTA (voice-over): Pittsburgh cannot meet its obligations to its pension system to the tune of $700 million. This in the city that already spends 50 cents of every dollar on pension, health care cost and debt. Mayor Luke Ravenstahl, a Democrat who grew up in a union family, blames his city's labor agreements.

RAVENSTAHL: Things have to change.

COSTA: The city's firefighters and police can retire at age 50, after 20 years of service, landing a pension equal the half of their take home pay. Firefighters can even boost their pensions by working more overtime in the last three years on duty. A practice called pension spiking.

(on camera): Is that fair?

RAVENSTAHL: It's not. And we've brought it up to the fire union. They're aware of it. Of course, they push back.

ACOSTA: Usually, pension spiking does not go on?

ROBERT COX, BATTALION CHIEF: Not in this bureau. I'm not sure how it does in other cities. But in this way, our overtime is distributed. It's an even rotating list.

ACOSTA (voice-over): Firefighters deny their engaging in pension spiking. They blame city hall.

WILLIAM GILCHREST, PITTSBURGH FIREFIGHTER ENGINE 17: Because of fiscal mismanagement of the cities, the governments and things, the working man shouldn't have to suffer for that.

ACOSTA: Ralph Sicuro, with the local firefighters union, is open to raising the retirement age but says this no job for senior citizens.

RALPH SICURO, INTERNATIONAL FIREFIGHTERS UNION REP.: So, what am I supposed to do with somebody that reaches the age of 65 and they want you now to work until your 70. What do I tell them? They can't -- they can't get up on the rig anymore.

ACOSTA: The mayor warns the pension system needs more than tweaks.

RAVENSTAHL: If I had my way, we would be able to offer 401(k) plans to city officials and government officials.

ACOSTA (on camera): But that's a nonstarter for this city's firefighters and police officers who don't qualify for Social Security benefits. But if Pittsburgh doesn't fix its pension problems, the state could come in and take over those programs, forcing the city into some painful choices like tax increases or massive layoffs.

Jim Acosta, CNN, Pittsburgh.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All right, Jim. Thanks.

A bike that requires no pedals? It sound like something from the future, right? Well, it's actually already here. That's ahead in "Connection."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Ah, the bicycle -- the freedom to roam around your neighborhood streets a lot faster than you could run when you were a kid. But continuous pedaling sometimes made it more work than pleasure.

Well, in today's "Connection," we'll show you a bike that just might make that a thing of the past.

Here's CNN's Dan Simon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It fits in the trunk of a car, unfolds in seconds.

GRANT RYAN, INVENTOR: Undo the handlebars like that.

SIMON: And has you cruising with stares from everyone around.

It is called the YikeBike.

(on camera): Where did you come up with the name Yike?

RYAN: Well, when you sit on it, you know, it does look unusual. So, we were, like, "Yikes." So it's the YikeBike.

SIMON (voice-over): Grant Ryan is the New Zealand inventor whose aim was to reinvent the bicycle. This one requires no pedaling.

RYAN: Obviously, you know, it looks a little different than a normal bike. But there's nothing in here natural about this. This is what we're used to.

So you've got a nice upright riding position, and your hands just naturally lay down here. Got an accelerator here, got a brake here. You've got some lights the whole way around, turning signals. Away you go.

SIMON: Inspired by the Segway, Ryan wanted to make it electric, only lighter and faster.

RYAN: I'll give you a race.

SIMON: It weighs 20 pounds and zips along at 14 miles an hour.

RYAN: It's got great acceleration, great braking. It's really maneuverable, and so it's a great way for nipping (ph) around town.

SIMON: In 2009, "TIME" magazine called it one of the best inventions of the year, but it hasn't been available to the public until now.

RYAN: Look up. Nice and relaxed.

SIMON (on camera): OK.

RYAN: Then just gently squeeze the accelerator. Nice and gentle. Yes.

SIMON: OK. Here we go.

(voice-over): As I found out --

(on camera): This is tough, man.

(voice-over): -- it takes a little practice to master it.

(on camera): I need a little more practice. (voice-over): But after 15 minutes or so --

RYAN: Maybe if you sit just a little further back.

SIMON (on camera): OK.

(voice-over): It starts to feel natural.

(on camera): There we go. The bike goes six miles on a single charge, so it's really ideal for going those short distances. And as you can hear, it makes a little bit of noise, which is there on purpose to let cars and pedestrians know of your presence.

(voice-over): The Yike is made out of hi-tech carbon fiber, which accounts for its steep $3,600 price, a major drawback. By contrast, though, a Segway will cost nearly double. For now, the bike is only available online.

Despite its size is, Ryan says it's safer than a regular bike. It's got anti-skid brakes and lights that are on all the time.

RYAN: It's got a good front wheel so you can go through potholes and bumps, and everything else is as small as possible.

SIMON: It's unclear if the Yike will be a success. But if you're looking to attract attention --

(on camera): It is a lot of fun.

SIMON (voice-over): -- you won't go wrong.

(on camera): It does take some practice though.

(voice-over): Dan Simon, CNN, San Francisco.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: OK.

Coming up right after this quick break, MTV is getting back to its roots -- the music.

Does that look like a tricycle to you?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. Every day on this show, we do a segment, and it's called "The Big I." It's all the big new ideas and innovations. And today we have an exclusive for you.

So, when you think of MTV, do you still think of music television, or do you think about "Jersey Shore," "The Real World," "16 and Pregnant," or that new controversial show "Skins"?

MTV hasn't really been about music for quite a while now. Well, they're making a very real attempt to be relevant again when it comes to music.

So, today, MTV is launching a brand new music app, and it's called the MTV Music Meter. And it's not just a big promotional app without much substance to it. Right? It's an actual ranking of the top 100 artists based on their social media buzz, their streams on video sites, and much, much more on that. And this is not just a top sales ranking that we're talking about here that you're going to see artists at the top. That's not going to be there all the time.

This is all about the up-and-comers. And here to tell us all about it is the head of digital media for MTV's music group. His name is Dermot McCormick.

So, first of all, thank you so much.

DERMOT MCCORMICK, EVP OF DIGITAL MEDIA, MTV: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: This is very cool. We're like dueling iPads here.

MCCORMICK: Yes.

LEMON: So tell us about this. How does it work? It calculates how? What happens?

MCCORMICK: So, it's essentially about music discovery. You know?

In today's social media world, how do you find the new artists between all the blogs and the tweets going on? So, this kind of solves that problem.

It goes out and essentially sifts through all the conversations online, and we generate a daily list of 100 artists we think you should be listening to.

LEMON: OK. So, it has all of them up here, and it goes all the way we should say to 100. So, have you 100. That goes all way through. And then you click on one. I have one up here that you can click on.

MCCORMACK: James Blake.

LEMON: You clicked on James Blake. And if you want to see James Blake, you've got audio, you've got photos, you've got tweets, you've got news, you've got bios, all of that. So, why is it so important for you to do this, especially on this platform?

MCCORMACK: So, we think, you know -- bviously clearly iPhone, iPad is a new generation of products that clearly -- we have four of them between the two of us. It's important for music. This is where people are accessing music.

More importantly, it's mobile. You know, think about a meter in terms of you're out with friends for dinner and someone mentions James Blake. And you're like, haven't heard of James Blake. Well, in seconds you could be jumping, you could be listening to audio -- LEMON: Because you have the app. You don't have to go and do the search and look for the music. You can go on. Anyway, it's just a sample. Because we have to pay for the music if we use it. But it's just a sample. So, if I had the volume up, you can hear it a little bit. We'll just do a second of it. And the music comes right up. But it doesn't play the entire song, right? Just a sample of it. If you want it, you have to buy it. Even photos of the artist.

MCCORMACK: Yes, you can scroll through the photos, you can check tweets, you can check news. You can share it with your social media network. So, if you like James Blake, you can tweet it right now.

LEMON: And there are the tweets right there. So, if I wanted to - now, does this connect to my tweets, or you just see his tweet?

MCCORMACK: You can go up to "share artist" and you can tweet it to.

LEMON: Ah, just hook it to my -- I got you, got you.

MCCORMACK: @DonLemonCNN.

LEMON: @DonLemonCNN. So, you go there and you do Twitter.

OK, so let me ask you then, why is it important for you to do it on this platform? What's the strategy behind this? As we said, MTV, you think about "Skins." You think about "Jersey Shore." You don't really think about music anymore.

MCCORMACK: Well, clearly the Internet and Web are moving on to new platforms. And frankly, music has gone and moved on there, too. So, this is really the place where music lives. So, people listen to iPhones. They discover it through iPad. So, we actually think there's a new opportunity for you know, MTV, to re-establish in these new platforms. And in a way, the next great MTV hasn't come along in music online, and we think we can reapply for that job.

LEMON: So, it's not necessarily MTV. It's you know, now, maybe now it's MTV online or MTV app or MTV notebook?

MCCORMACK: Well, we do live - and you guys know this through CNN. We live in a multi-screen world. So, we don't know where people are watching this segment right now. They could be watching on their iPad. They could be watching on their iPhone. Hopefully they're tweeting. And we think we live in a multi-screen world and we think the audience are already there. We want to be on all the screens our audience are on.

LEMON: Two seconds. Can you even tell me what's next, or you don't know?

MCCORMACK: What's next in term of Music Meter is we want to push it on to connected TVs, we want to push it onto Android. So, if there's a screen connected to the Internet, we want to be on there.

LEMON: Oh, my gosh! Thank you. Dermott, thank you very much. From MTV, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Good stuff. Nice app.

OK. And to link up to MTV Music Meter, head to Ali's blog at CNN.com/ali. Again, very interesting.

Mazda is recalling tens of thousands of cars because of an unexpected bug. Well, an unexpected spider actually. Details next in what you missed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. Checking some of the stories you might have missed today. President Obama spent most of the day with Mexico's leader, Felipe Calderon. Just a little while ago, at a joint news conference, Mr. Obama complimented his guest and addressed an international crisis in the same breath.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Most recently, our governments have spoken forcefully out for the human rights of the Libyan people. And Mexico played a leading role at the United Nations in suspending Libya from the Human Rights Council.

President Calderon, this not only reflects our commitment to the shared values of freedom and justice and rule of law, it's also another example of Mexico's global leadership. As you said in your address to our Congress last year, that Mexico is standing tall. And ready to take its rightful place in the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: President just moments ago.

All right, this has got to be a candidate for the most bizarre car recall ever. Mazda is flagging more than 50,000 Mazda 6 sedans from '09 and last year. Not because of any defects, all right? But apparently a certain type of spider likes to build its nests inside the car's fuel system.

I'll say it again. A certain type of spider likes to build its nests inside the car's fuel system. Have you ever heard of such a thing? And Mazda says those webs can block air intake, potentially causing fires in the car's gas tank.

For the 14th time, Robert F. Kennedy's assassin has been denied parole. Sirhan Sirhan brought with him two psychologist reports, saying he's no longer a threat to the society. But the commissioner of the board told him he still hasn't grasped the magnitude of his crime. Sirhan's up for parole again in five years.

The FDA has ordered more than 500 different drugs off the market, citing possible safety concerns. The include over-the-counter cough, cold and allergy meds. And the problem? Many haven't been evaluated by the agency. The agency is giving most companies making or selling unapproved products 90 days to stop making them and 100 days -- 180 days to stop shipping. President Obama speaks out on the revolt against Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi and announces steps to help those fleeing Libya. Details straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: You saw it right here on CNN live. President Obama again today condemned Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi's violence against the Libyan people and declared he must leave now. He spoke as Libyan jets for the second straight day bombed two strategic towns controlled by anti-Gadhafi forces.

Joining me to talk about all of this, CNN International anchor and correspondent Michele Holmes. Michael, very tough words from the president. He says, I want to make this completely clear. Time for him to go.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: As if Hillary Clinton hadn't already. It's familiar wording, but yes. Very, very direct. I mean, he said that Gadhafi had, quote, "lost the legitimacy to lead, and he must leave."

The other key thing that came out of what he had to say, though, is he's authorizing American military airlifts to get some of these refugees who have left Libya back to their own countries. There's a lot of foreign workers in Libya. Places like Bangladesh, Vietnam, Thailand and Korea. And they want to get back home away from all of this. They say now 180,000 people -- the U.N. says have fled either to the east or to the west of the country just getting out. Of course, Mr. Obama again saying you know, full range of options on the table.

LEMON: What I thought was interesting is he said those closest to Gadhafi who may be helping him, they should know they are being watched closely and they too can be prosecuted. And they're on the wrong side of history.

HOLMES: Well, that's right. He's again raising the specter of the international criminal court, human rights abuses being held to account for that when this is all over. If and when it's all over. This could drag on for a very long time.

We had the fighting again today in Al Brega. I think we got the pictures of some of that going on there. The air strikes. This is an oil terminal area, key sort of strategic area if you like and Gadhafi forces are bombing there.

You know, there was a battle on the ground as well. But it seems that the army was beaten back by the rebels. It does show that the government forces are pretty determined here to retake ground, but the rebels equally committed, although not terribly organized. They're a pretty ragtag bunch.

LEMON: Yesterday you and I were talking about this when it happened during the breaking news coverage. We were talking about what happened at Frankfurt Airport in Germany. The two U.S. airmen. U.S. Air Force airmen killed. This appears to be carried out by a single Muslim radical.

HOLMES: It does. It's looking that way, yes. This 21-year-old from Kosovo. He was born and raised in Germany, though. His parents actually moved from Kosovo something like 40 years ago.

What do we know about him? He was, as I said, born and bred there, became radicalized. There are suggestions he was influenced by al Qaeda ideology, but no suggestion that he acted anything other than alone at this time.

This all points to increasing radicalization that we've seen in Germany. There are reports of a lot of people who have gone from Germany to Pakistan for training, dozens of them come back. And the German authorities are quite worried about that.

LEMON: OK. Mike -- Raymond Davis. Raymond Davis

HOLMES: What a story this is.

LEMON: From Pakistan. An American CIA contractor accused of killing two Pakistanis back in January.

HOLMES: Yes. Extraordinary story. This was in Lahore, January 27. And he says it was a robbery attempt. And he fired on two men that tried to rob him driving through. Very built up, busy area. There's been all sorts of stories what actually went down. The Pakistani authorities, they locked him up.

There was claims initially by the U.S. that this guy had diplomatic immunity. It later turned out he was working with the CIA, a contractor with the CIA.

And the other thing, of course, that happened that made this even worse was that as he called for help, there was that is other car that came from the embassy to help out - or the consulate to help out, who hit a motorcyclist and killed him. It just got worse and worse.

LEMON: There's a court ruling today. It's considered a setback. Why is that?

HOLMES: Well, because they said they had not received any evidence that he has diplomatic immunity. And until they get that evidence, they're not going to be able to release him or anything like that. It's put a lot of tension on the U.S./Pakistan relationship in a moment. Going to be another hearing in a couple weeks where we'll have to see what happens there. At the moment, they're saying, no evidence that he's got diplomatic immunity. He's going to stay locked up.

LEMON: Yes. You're a brave man and very fashionable. I like the leather jacket.

HOLMES: I know. You can't borrow it.

LEMON: I know! I wish could I wear it.

HOLMES: I just had an urge.

LEMON: That's pretty cool. We should, you know, the little runway walk for you.

HOLMES: Oh, you do tease me.

LEMON: Thank you, sir.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Michael.

You know, time is running out for the NFL owners and the players union face a midnight deadline to try to hash out a deal that could save this year's football season. We'll break down what's at stake in this dipute -- dispute -- for you next.

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LEMON: It is time for today's "Big Breakdown." And in the "Big Breakdown," tonight is it. If the NFL owners and the players union can't reach a deal by midnight tonight, there is a strong possibility there's going to be a lockout, which could mean no NFL football games this fall.

This whole dispute boils down to the players' collective bargaining rights, which expire at midnight. Now, here are the key issues on the table.

First, the NFL makes about $9 billion a year. Out of that, the owners get $1 billion off the top. The players get close to 60 percent of the remaining money. Now, the owners want more money and you know, they want an additional $1 billion off the top. They also want to increase the regular season schedule to 18 games from the current 16 games. And the overall number of games played per season would stay the same, since there would just be fewer exhibition games.

Owners also want to put a cap on rookie salaries. That means no top draft picks would be guaranteed $50 million at the door. You can't do that at the door anymore. $50 million.

Now, let's just say that the owners and the players union don't come to terms today, and there is a lockout. That means there will be no contract between the players and their teams, no players will be signed, and no trades would be made. That being said, there will still be an NFL draft in April. But those players can't officially sign with a team. There will not be any off-season activities. No training camps or the like. Players will not get their roster bonuses, which are usually paid this month, and that equals about $200 million.

And if the lockout continues into September, which is when the regular season is scheduled to start, that means games will be canceled. Players would not get their regular paychecks, and the NFL as a whole would lose about $400 million in revenue a week. Big incentives on all sides to get it all done. All right, so needless to say, there's a lot at stake here, and experts predict the federal mediator will push back tonight's deadline for a week, and a deal will be made that will save this year's NFL season. We're going to stay on top of the story for you, on top of the talks, and let you know what happens. Big deal, a lot of money at stake.

The U.S. Supreme Court upheld an anti-gay church's right to protest at military funerals, but do they deserve First Amendment protection? The "Stream Team" will tackle that subject, next.

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LEMON: This next story is causing quite a stir. It was a major legal victory for the Westboro Baptist Church. By a vote of 8-1, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the church saying it does have the right to stage anti-gay protests at U.S. military funerals. Justice Roberts wrote the U.S. has, quote, "chosen to protect even hurtful speech on public issues."

The church says god is punishing America for the, quote, "sin of homosexuality" through events, including soldiers deaths. So, the question for the Stream Team today is, does this go over the line? Do these protests take the First Amendment right too far?

So, joining me are John Ellsworth and Father Albert Cutie, and also our Jeffrey Toobin. Thank you all so much for joining us. Jeffrey's joining us by phone. As you notice, he's not moving there.

So, John, listen, your family has been on the receiving end of this. What do you make of this ruling?

JOHN ELLSWORTH, MILITARY FAMILIES UNITED: Well, it's what we expected. It's unfortunate, but again, First Amendment rights do triumph here.

Our main concern with this is we need to make sure we have some guidance in what we can and can't allow. How about a little civility? How about some decorum? They expect it in their courtrooms. We would expect it at our military funerals.

LEMON: So Father, listen, Westboro -- most people don't consider it a legitimate church, OK? But is this -- aren't they saying the same thing that's reinforced by religion that's being preached from the pulpit in many churches on Sunday?

REV. FATHER ALBERT CUTIE, EPISCOPAL PRIEST, AUTHOR: I hope not. I hope nobody is hearing that God hates some people or that even than God hates the activity of some people. I think human beings hate. God teaches us to love and to love unconditionally.

That's the problem that I have. I don't think the First Amendment should protect hatred in the public forum. And I think that's where the law makes its biggest mistake. I think we have to be careful when we say to people, oh, by the way, you have the right to do this. Nobody has the right in the 21st century to propagate hate, and that's what's happening here.

LEMON: Jeffrey Toobin, I have to ask you, why isn't this considered hate speech because hate speech is not protected, is it?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST (via telephone): Well, hate speech is a pretty vague term. But any kind of political view, even the most outrageous, is protected by the First Amendment. And if you look at the circumstances of the Snyder family speech -- and frankly, I prefer to call this so-called church the Snyder family because it's really just one crazy family. It's an insult to Baptists, an insult to churches to talk about the crazy Snyder family as a church.

But they were talking about politics. They were expressing their views, horrible though they are, on matters of public concern in a public space that was not disrupting a funeral, and that is at the core of what the First Amendment protects.

LEMON: John, did I see you wanting to get in on this?

ELLSWORTH: John wants to get in on this. First of all, it's the Phelps family. The Snyder family --

TOOBIN: Oh, goodness, I'm sorry.

ELLSWORTH: I want to make sure we understand that.

TOOBIN: I apologize! Oh, my goodness.

ELLSWORTH: It is the phelps family.

TOOBIN: Phelps family -

ELLSWORTH: It is just the phelps family. As an extended, it's not a church in my view as an organization. It's protected, file theirselves under a 501 (c) (3) to get that tax break. It's not a church.

It is to me a hate organization, and I have to agree that this is not what God would want. This is not the way that Christians behave. I actually belong to a Baptist church, and I believe in God. This is not the Christian God that I believe in. And I want to make sure that that's clear.

Back to the Snyder case, what we are looking for is some distinction and whether or not it is a -- it is free speech, but how far does it go? It's getting to the point of harassment. We have to be very careful.

LEMON: John, let me jump in here. Because that's what I wanted to ask Jeffrey. Why isn't this then considered harassment? Because you say whatever you want, but you can't come into my yard or street and start screaming or whatever. You would get arrested for either loitering or disrupting public or either for harassment. So, why isn't this considered at least that, Jeffrey?

TOOBIN: Well, let me just repeat my apology that I mixed up the Snyders and the Phelps. It is the Snyders who are the horrible, tragic victims here and the Phelps were the perpetrators.

Now, to answer your question, you have to look at what happened at this funeral. This was a protest by the Phelps family, 300 feet from the funeral. It was not disruptive. It did not -- it could not be heard at the funeral service. The family, the Snyder family, only found out what was said when they saw the news coverage of the event.

So yes, it might be harassment if they were standing ten feet away and screaming at the Snyder family. But under the facts of this case, when the protest was at a significant distance away and not disruptive, I don't think you can say it was harassment.

LEMON: I want to ask Father Cutie this. Do you think, Father -- maybe Jeffrey, you're the best person to answer. But I have to get Father Cutie in here. Do you think it's time, Father, we revisit the First Amendment?

CUTIE: We have to revisit it, and we have to ask ourselves the question, what is the difference between free speech and disrespecting other people's basic rights? I think when you're having a funeral, it is a solemn affair. I don't know why a city or a county would give permission for this type of protest during a funeral.

People are denied permits all the time for other kinds of things. Why can't we deny people a permit when we know they may interfere with something that is sacred and holy like a funeral, even if it is 300 feet away? It's wrong!

LEMON: Father Cutie, thank you very much. Thank you very much, Mr. Ellsworth. And Jeffrey, thank you very much. Jeffrey, no one is perfect. We all do it. And you apologized. So, we appreciate it. Thanks, Jeff.

All righty. CNN NEWSROOM continues right after a quick break.

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LEMON: Lots going on in the news, and no one better to take over right now than Brooke Baldwin. Hi, Brooke.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, I like that! Thank you, Don Lemon! I appreciate it.