Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Surging Oil Prices; Sources: Senator John Ensign Retiring; Tapping Oil Reserves; Wisconsin Dem Talks Budget

Aired March 07, 2011 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it's a bad couple of weeks to be a car owner. And the next few weeks and months may not be a whole lot better.

The average nationwide price of self-serve regular gas has topped $3.50 a gallon. It's risen at a breakneck pace, almost 34 cents in two weeks. That's according to AAA. That's the highest, fastest increase since right after Hurricane Katrina.

Now, if this rate keeps up -- I'm not saying it necessarily will, but if it does, we will set a new record for the price of gasoline inside of a month from now. The highest average gas price to date is $4.11. You can see it right there in the middle of the chart, $4.11. That was July of 2008.

Remember, averages are made from extremes, which means that the $3.51 average looks pretty good right now to our friends in San Diego. They're looking at about $3.92 a gallon. Seattle is $3.65; Las Vegas, $3.56, just a little higher than the national average; $3.71 in Chicago; Houston is $3.38; $3.47 in Boston; $3.41 in Atlanta.

But take a look at Billings, Montana. Right now, that's the best deal in the country, on average $3.18.

Now, you cannot talk about gas without this, without this, without talking about oil. So I've hauled out my barrel for "Two at the Top."

Today, 42 gallons of west Texas intermediate, which is the crude oil that we buy, is selling for more than $100. Let me show you that on a chart.

You can actually see over the course of the last month or so the increase in the price of oil. It's gone up more than 19 percent in one month.

There's no particular magic to understanding oil prices. They go up for two reasons -- demand and speculation.

The entire world produces about 84 million barrels of oil per day. Guess what? We use all of it.

Here in the United States, in fact, where only five percent of the population of the world lives, we use 25 percent of the oil that the world produces every day. In fact, 10 percent of that 84 million barrels that the world produces and uses every day, 10 percent of the oil consumed in the world is consumed right here in the United States just for driving.

Right now we import more oil than we produce ourselves. So where does the oil that comes to the United States come from? These five countries: Canada, by far the biggest source of imported oil in the United States; Mexico; Nigeria; Saudi Arabia and Venezuela. They make up almost three-quarters of our foreign oil imports.

Now, do you see Libya in that group? No. Why? Well, that Libyan turmoil may be spooking the market. That's the speculation, not the demand -- the speculation that I mentioned -- but it's not putting a dent in global oil production.

Demand-wise, in fact, there's virtually nothing you or I can do that's going to have much of an effect on the price of gas. In fact, demand for oil and gasoline in the United States has been pretty stagnant for the past few years. We are driving fewer miles, and those miles that we do drive are being driven in more fuel-efficient vehicles.

Here's the real problem. Take a look at the stuff in red right there, China and India. Other developing countries like that are increasing their demand, and they are more than offsetting that part that we're not using.

The real problem for many of us here in the United States is the way in which we live. While the rest of the world has spent the last couple of decades urbanizing, take a look at this picture here. Look familiar? It could be anywhere in the United States.

We are still driving to work. The rest of the world is living closer to where they work, developing better mass transit. The United States remains a nation devoted to suburban sprawl, where it's typical to live 20 or more miles from work.

Now, I have long argued -- I'm the chief business correspondent here at CNN, so I've said the best way to offset those increasing energy prices is to invest in oil or companies that make money off of oil. But for many Americans, investing right now is not an option.

If you can't invest, and you can't move, and you drive to work every day, well, you've got a problem on your hands. You didn't need me to tell you that.

Now, here's the question I'm getting -- is it going to get better? My best guess is until we are fully committed to developing alternatives to energy that is derived from crude oil, from this, it's not likely to get better any time soon.

That is not stopping people from looking. And when oil and gas prices spike, people look to the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. That's the nation's emergency stockpile.

I'll talk more about that in our next segment. OK. For today's "Sound Effect," I want to turn to a hearing this week on Capitol Hill on the radicalization of American-Muslims. The new chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee says he wants to learn how certain U.S. citizens are drawn into or recruited into terrorism. But many American-Muslims feel that New York Congressman Peter King is unfairly scrutinizing them.

King was a guest on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION," as was the first Muslim elected to the U.S. House of Congress, Keith Ellison of Minnesota.

Listen to both of them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PETER KING (R-NY), CHAIRMAN, HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: The majority of Muslims are outstanding Americans. But at this stage in our history, there is an effort to radicalize elements within the Muslim community. And I've said when we've gone there (ph) for the Mafia, we looked at the Italian community, the (INAUDIBLE), the Irish community. In New York, they went after the Russian mob. They go into the Russian community in Brighton Beach and Coney Island.

And right now there is an effort -- and this isn't just me saying this. Eric Holder said he stays away at night worrying about the numbers of young Muslim men who are being radicalized.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEITH ELLISON (D), MINNESOTA: Let me be clear. I think that it does make sense to talk with people in the Muslim community about how we can meet the challenge of public security. I do think so. I think it makes sense to talk about Internet, confronting ideology of people like Anwar al-Awlaki.

I think where he's trying to exploit and misuse Islam, we should counter him with what Islam really does say. And so I do think that there is a place for that. I just think it doesn't makes sense to narrow in on a discreet insular group that has already been the target of a certain amount of discrimination.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELSHI: The hearing is set for Thursday. And you'll see top-to- bottom coverage right here on CNN.

I want to draw your attention as well to a "CNN in America" special, "Unwelcome: The Muslims Next Door." Soledad O'Brien chronicles the dramatic fight over the building of a mosque in the heart of the Bible Belt. Her special report airs Sunday, March 27th, at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, only on CNN.

(NEWSBREAK) VELSHI: Well, tapping into the oil reserves is a controversial idea that's only been done twice. Is it time to do it again? That's next in today's "Taking the Lead."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Let's go right to Capitol Hill. Dana Bash, standing by with some breaking news.

Dana, what have you got?

BASH: Well, Ali, we told you just a few minutes ago that we understood that John Ensign, the Republican senator from Nevada, would hold a news conference shortly about his political future. We now know from two Republican sources informed of the decision that John Ensign will announce that he is not going to seek re-election, that he will retire from the United States Senate at the end of this term.

Now, John Ensign was a rising star in the Republican Party, Ali. He was a member of the leadership until he went public. "The New York Times" had first reported that he had an affair with the wife of a longtime aide, and then got into ethical and, for a time, legal trouble because of allegations that he was trying to get a lobbying job for the husband of the aide that he was having an affair with.

And this is somebody who now will leave a seat empty in the state of Nevada, which I can tell you, talking to senior Republicans, they are not unhappy about, because they were very worried about his prospects. And Nevada, as you well know, is a very important swing state when it comes to the Senate and everything else in politics -- Ali.

VELSHI: Dana, thanks very much for that update. We'll get more on it as this develops. Thanks very much.

Dana Bash, at Capitol Hill.

Gas prices have made the second highest jump ever in the past two weeks. The biggest, by the way, was after Hurricane Katrina.

Now the Obama administration is apparently considering tapping into the U.S. oil reserves, the Strategic Petroleum Reserve.

Earlier, I spoke with Christine Romans to weigh in on the idea.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: First, I think it's unlikely. And here's why.

We've only done it a couple of times, once in the first Gulf War and once during Hurricane Katrina. We've done some exchanges out of it, allowing people to take oil out, but then having to put the oil back at the end. That's happened after Hurricanes Ike and Gustav, Ali. But, also, remember, if they were to tap the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, it's unclear what the oil market would do on that fact. It might cause, actually, some great uncertainty and unhappiness in the markets, right, if they thought that the administration was so concerned about oil and shortages, in fact, that they were pulling oil out of here.

Now, what is -- those 727 million barrels, as you know, Ali, the whole idea of this is it's an emergency reserve just in case there are supply shutdowns and supply stoppages.

VELSHI: Right, which we don't have. Which is not what's happening.

ROMANS: We don't have.

VELSHI: Yes.

ROMANS: We do not have that. Libya has got a million barrels a day off the market, according to the oil industry. People have been watching that. And Saudi Arabia and OPEC say that they're going to keep pumping oil to make up for it.

You make a very good point when you do your breakdown about this, Ali, that every little drop of oil that comes out of the ground we're using somewhere in the world. And a quarter of that we're using here in this country. So there's important conversations about conservation, about dependence on foreign oil, on all of the sorts of things there.

But the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, just talking about it, I think, might be a gambit to try to put oil prices down a little bit, to try to tap the brake on oil prices a bit. But would it really work and would they really do it? That's what's not so clear -- Ali.

VELSHI: I mean, it is -- it's important to get to the bottom of this, that we don't have a lot of oil shortage affected by Libya. The bottom line is that very little oil comes out of Libya in the first place, and virtually none is stopped. And that's not really -- it's not a supply problem that's affecting the price of oil. It's a psychological problem, like it often is.

ROMANS: It is. And it's also a global demand issue as well. I mean, you already had very brisk global demand altogether.

Now, one thing that's very clear is there are some who are concerned that until you're pretty sure that this unrest and the demonstrations in the Middle East are over, that you're still going to have this nervousness. I mean, analysts are looking at every single country there and reading the Twitter feeds and the tea leaves, Ali, to try to figure out, could there be demonstrations in Saudi Arabia, in Abu Dhabi, in Qatar, in all these other places that are important natural gas and oil-producing areas.

So, you know, we're not saying there are no risks out there in the region. There certainly are. But in terms of oil being off the market -- now, what else could the administration do?

They could roll back a gas tax. You know, there's an 18-cent federal gas tax, and different states have even more higher taxes. They could do that. Talked about it in 2008; it didn't happen.

They could do maybe price controls. Did that in the '70s, but that didn't really hold.

Plus, Ali, you've got this other debate in the country right now about getting the government out of your life. And then you start to hear people talking about, well, can't they do anything about my gas prices?

VELSHI: Right.

ROMANS: So, it's conflicting ideologies there on that.

Bottom line is, according to Deutsche Bank, an analyst there, Ali, you won't see $4 gas until you see oil at $125. Right now you've got oil about $105, $106.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELSHI: All right. Frank Buckles died on February 27th at age 110. He was the last surviving U.S. veteran of World War I.

He drove an ambulance for the U.S. Army in Europe, rising to the rank of corporal. His daughter wants his body to lie in honor in the Rotunda of the Capitol building in Washington as a tribute to all the veterans of the First World War. And she's backed by politicians in his home state of West Virginia.

But the request appears to have been rejected. Instead, he'll likely receive an honors burial at Arlington National Cemetery.

We asked to hear from you on this story. And we've heard plenty.

Ben asked, through Twitter, "Did he do anything exemplary besides go to war? If not, then he shouldn't get special treatment because he lived the longest."

Wow, that's kind of harsh.

Trudy had the other side of the argument. "This vet should lie in state. He symbolizes all who have died in World War I and gave their lives for their country."

Alain made an interesting argument on Facebook for any politician faced with choices about honoring America's veterans. He suggest4ed, "It should be compulsory for every lawmaker in the United States to serve and fight in a war."

I don't know if I like that, Alain. That means we've always got to have a war for people to serve and fight in.

All right. Imagine that you're in a store picking up a few things and then this happens. This is surveillance video of a tornado in Rayne, Louisiana. Look at that.

Violent winds force open the doors to the store while customers shop. And just right outside it continues to carve its destructive path. Coming up next, Jacqui Jeras will join me live to talk about severe weather hitting the country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

VELSHI: All right. One group is making it its business to fight inequality in classrooms and put great teachers in our schools. We're going to talk to the founder of Teach for America about ways to fix our broken school system, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: There's been a lot of talk lately about ways to fix the broken public school in this country. From better teacher recruitment and evaluation, to school structure and discipline, we have talked a lot about the possible solutions on this show. We've also seen teachers in Wisconsin, as well as other states, protest pay cuts, layoffs, and what some are calling the death of union collective bargaining rights.

It's a tough time on the education front for many districts. But in the midst of all this, organizations like Teach for America have made it their mission to help. This group sets out to eliminate educational inequality by getting some of the nation's most promising future leaders involved to help.

Joining me is Wendy Kopp. She's the founder and CEO of Teach for America.

Wendy, thank you for being with us.

So many of us Teach for America very closely. For those of our viewers who don't, give me the elevator pitch.

WENDY KOPP, FOUNDER & CEO, TEACH FOR AMERICA: You know, you just said it. This is about building the larger movement to ensure that all kids in our country, regardless of where they're born, have the chance to attain an excellent education. And we go out and recruit our most outstanding recent college graduates and young professionals to commit two years to teach in our highest poverty communities, knowing that that's critical for kids who are growing up today, and also knowing that that experience of teaching successfully in urban and rural areas will be the foundational experience that these people will take with them forevermore.

So we're building, ultimately, a force of leaders in our country who know that we can solve this problem and how to solve it.

VELSHI: Now, you've written a new book. It's called "A Chance to Make History." What's the book about? KOPP: The book is about 20 years in this, what I have learned from our teachers, from the Teach for America alumni, and from many others in our urban and world communities about, honestly, the fact that we can solve this problem. That's the most salient lesson of the last 20 years.

VELSHI: All right. So you've got the special sauce, because it's a problem. It's a big, big problem. It's nationwide. It's exacerbated by this recession and budget cuts. But the fact is, even before the recession we were losing our edge in terms of public school education.

What is the solution when you say we can solve it?

KOPP: Well, when I -- first of all, 20 years ago, when I got started in this, the prevailing notion backed up by all the research was that socioeconomic background determined educational outcomes. You know, if you're born into poverty, you know, chances are --

VELSHI: You'll get not much of an education.

KOPP: Chances are. I mean, 50 percent of our low-income kids, 15 million kids in the country, end up not graduating from high school. And the half who do graduate have an eighth grade skill level on average. This is a crisis, and what we know today is we can solve that problem.

VELSHI: OK.

KOPP: We can provide kids with an education that is transformational, meaning that changes their trajectory. And the reason I say that so clearly is, literally, we have now hundreds of schools that are providing a transformational education in communities across the country. So, if we will center ourselves in those very successful urban and rural schools' experience and try to understand, what are they doing differently, therein lies the key to them scaling success.

VELSHI: All right. Without taking sides on who is to blame, there are some people who clearly hold teachers responsible, they hold unions responsible, they hold evaluations responsible, and school districts and principals and whatever. Without any of that stuff, it just doesn't seem like a great environment to say, hey, you're a smart kid, let me teach you how to be a great teacher.

How do you recruit people in this environment?

KOPP: Well, honestly, we go out and share with our recent college grads and graduating seniors -- I mean, we have 48,000 people compete to be part of this. And they're responding --

VELSHI: Right. And you've got about 8,000 people --

KOPP: We bring in of that about 5,000 of them, and they commit two years.

VELSHI: OK. All right.

KOPP: But they're responding to the message that, you know what? Kids in our country -- I mean, right now -- are years behind where they have the potential to be. And we need our future leaders to step up and say we're going to change that.

And so they're wanting to be part of the growing momentum for change out there. At some level, I could not agree more that we have a very kind of volatile public discussion, but we're not necessarily talking about the things that are at work in the schools, though we are actually -- I mean, we're right here in Atlanta, and, you know, there are some public schools in Atlanta who start with fifth graders who are mostly kids in low-income families who are far behind.

VELSHI: Right.

KOPP: And by the time they're in eighth grade, they are literally in the top third nationally of eighth graders. So those kids are proving they have the potential when they're met with high expectations and the extra supports that they need.

VELSHI: All right. Well, it's great that there are people who are that keen on it, that for 5,000 spots you've got 45,000 people applying. It's great that, despite all of the discussion that's going on, the importance of being a teacher and of helping the kids is paramount.

So thanks very much for that work.

KOPP: Thank you.

VELSHI: Wendy Kopp is the founder and CEO of Teach for America.

All right. It is a race spanning more than 1,000 miles, an amazing trek across Alaska. We're going to try to keep up after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Now looking at some of the stories you may have missed. Gas prices have shot up nearly 34 cents over the past 13 days. AAA says the national average for regular unleaded gasoline is now $3.51 a gallon. California has the highest prices in the nation averaging $3.89. Montana has the lowest at $3.18.

Defense secretary Robert Gates visiting Afghanistan today. He arrived this morning and was greeted by America's top commander there, General David Petraeus. Addressing the troops, Gates became a bit emotional.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT GATES, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: You all keep me up at night. I think a lot about the people out here and what you're having to put up with and the conditions you live in and the sacrifices you make. (END VIDEO CLIP)

VELSHI: Gates also met with Hamid Karzai. He apologized again for civilian casualties in the Kunar region. Karzai says he accepts the apology after previously stating that an apology wasn't going to be enough.

Hundreds of people attended the funeral for Wes Leonard on Sunday. The high school basketball player in Michigan who died shortly after scoring the winning basket in a game last week. He suffered from an enlarged heart.

And former French president Jacques Chirac is on trial today. Chirac is accused of embezzling money from the city of Paris when he was mayor, along with nine other people. French officials say Chirac used public money to pay people to work for his political party, the RPR. It has taken 15 years for the former president to be brought up on charges.

The famed Iditarod sled dog race got under way in Alaska over the weekend. A total of 62 teams are taking part this year. The mushers and their dog teams will travel over a thousand miles in the competition. The price to compete is about $50,000 and a new truck. I'm sorry, that is prize, not the price to compete. The prize: $50,000 and a new truck. Why you need a truck if you've got these dogs taking you everywhere?

Fierce new fighting on all fronts in Libya's civil war. The U.S. and NATO consider military options in response. I'll map it out for you right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: With heavy new fighting under way in the civil war in Libya, NATO has started around-the-clock surveillance of flights of the country. Now, the word from the American ambassador to NATO and in Washington, the White House says sending ground troops to Libya continues to be a possible option. It's not at the top of the list at this point.

Let me show you a series of maps to help you understand the situation on the ground right now. The first map shows the capital of Tripoli and the western side of the country. It's green, it's controlled by Gadhafi's forces. To the east is the key port city, it's an oil city, of Benghazi. That was the first major city captured by rebel troops.

Now, let me just move this along. Here you see the city of Ras Lanuf. You see all these blue lines? These are oil pipelines. It's a key oil complex. Rebels say they control it, but it's been under fire from both government air and ground forces.

Let me show you the third one. Bin Jawad. Reports now indicate the coastal town is under the control of government troops after fierce fighting today and over the weekend. And let me show you Misrata, the scene of heavy fighting over the weekend. Witnesses say rebel forces were able to repel a government assault yesterday.

And finally let me show you Zawiya, very close to Tripoli, as you can see. Just a little west toward Tunisia. The battle here has gone back and forth for several days. Both sides are claiming the upper hand in the battle, but the government is preventing us from entering.

Nic Robertson got within a mile of the town today, and he said he heard heavy machine gun and artillery fire, but we're unable to confirm who is actually in control of the town of Zawiya.

Joining us now, CNN international correspondent John Vause. John, good to see you, my friend.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lovely to see you.

VELSHI: We have so much that we can talk about here. One of the things that people are asking is, why are we characterizing this as a civil war at this point?

VAUSE: Well, look at the map. You've got west versus the east. A couple of things are going on here. What is coming out now as these battles ebb and flow, neither side has the ability, at least from a five-mile point of view, to declare that knockout punch.

VELSHI: Which is interesting because typically you would think with Gadhafi still in power and his military, they should be able to.

VAUSE: Well, they should, especially when you think about the rebels. What are they? They're a bunch of kids with guns, bunch of old guys with (INAUDIBLE). They have no supply lines, they are disorganized, they're traveling all the way from Benghazi all the way to Tripoli. They're stretched, making their way along the coastal highways.

One other point which you should look at this, when we look at a map like this, whenever you see straight lines, you should always become suspicious because that means this country --

VELSHI: It's not a natural border.

VAUSE: Exactly. It's not a natural border. Libya is essentially a mixture of African tribes and Arab clans. There's no reason Libya should be a country except that the Italians made it one and then Gadhafi kept it one. So, that's what could end up happening, is that this could end up being a protracted battle between the west and east.

VELSHI: Quite remarkable, given everything going on in this part of the world with U.S. forces there, with NATO forces, with coalition forces. That there's a discussion now, while it's not at the top of the list, the possibility of actually bringing ground troops into Libya. What we've heard is they're talking about the military options and they've started the surveillance flights over Libya.

VAUSE: All of this is following a fairly predictable pattern. First of all, you have discussions. You have sanctions, they freeze the assets. Now they start talking about a no-fly zone. Over the weekend, we had British SAS troops actually caught by the opposition forces in Benghazi. So, there's now talk of some kind of covert action possibly involving Washington, definitely involving the British.

The next step in that is military air strikes and then overt military action. But something (INAUDIBLE) happened over the weekend, which makes this a lot easier. It's kind of gone unreported, but there was a formation of a transnational council that's being headed by the former justice minister. He defected from Gadhafi after six days.

Now, that's important because it gives an address inside Libya where --

VELSHI: To deal with everybody else.

VAUSE: Exactly. They need to be recognized. This transnational council is represented by Europe, the Arab world, trying to get some kind of recognition. But that for the U.S. is very important because it avoids Iraq, it avoids Afghanistan. It means that they're working on behalf of the Libyan people.

VELSHI: Right. Because the danger is always overflowing a government when you don't know what's -

VAUSE: What's next.

VELSHI: -- what's there. Egypt managed to resolve itself or at least initial -the stages of itself resolved itself fairly quickly without a whole lot of outside intervention. Does the world have an appetite for dealing with a civil war in Libya?

VAUSE: No. Absolutely not. If you look at Egypt, the reason why it was resolved fairly peacefully because of the institutions. The military was there ready to take power.

VELSHI: This is a country --

VAUSE: Well, Gadhafi has kept the military weak because he didn't want a coup. And so, if he goes, all the institutions go. That's why they're trying to build institutions right now in Benghazi right now and these other cities that have been raided (ph).

VELSHI: All right. John, good to see you. Spend more time with us! Because there's a topic that we talk a lot about on this show, and that's China, obviously. And that's something you know a lot about,

VAUSE: My old stomping ground.

VELSHI: That's right. Good to see you, John. Thank you so much.

VAUSE: Good to see you. Cheers!

VELSHI: All right. I want to continue the discussion right after the break. Are we doing it now, Sarah, or after the break?

All right. As soon as we come back, we told you about what's going on in Wisconsin. When we come back, I'm going to talk to one of those Democrats who's outside of the state about what they think about the gauntlet that's been put down by the governor of Wisconsin. Stay with us. I'll talk to him right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: All right. We've been following the developments in Wisconsin. A major development this morning when the governor read a letter that he received from Wisconsin Democratic senators, setting down some terms for continued discussion about the battle that's been raging there.

I'm joined now by state senator Chris Larson, who is in Illinois with a number of the other Democratic senators.

Senator Larson, thanks for joining me on the phone. We have a national audience here. This morning's press conference - or there was a press conference a couple of hours ago -- little hard to determine what it is that the governor was accusing the Democratic senators of doing in having sent this letter. Explain to us what happened.

CHRIS LARSON (D), STATE SENATOR OF WISCONSIN (via phone): Yes. I'm not entirely sure where -- what he is trying to do here. I mean, I think it shows a lot when he was using the letter we sent him to meet as a prop for a press conference.

We've continued to try to have these discussions. Everything that he said about us meeting, we've known there was two people meeting and they've always said that we speak - you know, they don't speak for the 14 of us, that they have to go back to us. And at no point was there any agreement that they would vote or vote for this or was there a timeline set up for us to go back.

So, I think what Walker is trying to do is just explain, you know -- shift blame away from himself in that --

VELSHI: Let's listen in for a minute to what he said. Listen to this.

LARSON: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: It would be nice today if we could announce that we had an agreement for these 14 state senators to come back. But instead we've got a letter from senate Democratic leader Mark Miller. A letter that says, in part, "I would ask that you or your authorized representatives agree to meet with us near the Wisconsin/Illinois border."

I think the public has finally seen in the past 24 hours firsthand the frustration that we have felt for days in the sense that they were misled by the statements that Senator Miller made last night to a national media outlet when he said that the senate was going to come back. Now today reversing court course on that. I think that's indicative of the fact that now -- Senator Miller is misleading the public, just like he misled us and just like apparently he seems to be misleading many members of his own caucus.

For us to move forward, we need to have reasonable and responsible elected officials stand up and decide it is time to set aside those who would stand in the way and instead figure out a reasonable pathway home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: For us to move forward, we need to have reasonable and responsible elected officials stand up and decide it is time to set aside those who would stand in the way and instead figure out a reasonable pathway home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: OK. So, Senator Larson, what gets you hot under the collar about what the governor said?

CHRIS LARSON (D), WISCONSIN STATE SENATOR (via telephone): It seems like he's trying his best to divide and conquer. I mean, the thing is we are all in the meetings. We're all there trying to figure out what he was interpreting. It really came out that he -- he is basically lying about -- or purposely misrepresenting what was talked about.

The reason that the meeting was requested is because we didn't think he understood exactly what we were trying to get at and trying to make sure we can -- we can do just that, find an agreement here. And it's unfortunate he's trying to use that as an opportunity to divide us.

I mean, we've always stood behind Miller as our leader. We affirmed him as our leader. This is something where he's taking things --

VELSHI: OK.

LARSON: -- misinterpreting what it is we're talking about. It's always been clear we're fighting for workers' rights.

VELSHI: OK. So, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Ultimately, bottom line, is you are Wisconsin state senators, is not Illinois state senators. So, at some point, something has got to get you back to Wisconsin. What is that going to be?

LARSON: Taking workers' rights off the table. The fact that they continue to attack collective bargaining and trying toto kill the unions, you know, it doesn't save any extra money. They've already put forward the financial and benefits that unions are willing to pay into those. So, the idea that the union needs to die is what needs to be gone off the table. And that's why people are still so upset.

I think it's -- they're purposely misleading and again undercutting their credibility. I think they're hoping that the public doesn't remember that they shut them out of the capitol and they shut down the phone line and responded to our negotiations, our request for an agreement to take this off the table. They responded to that with fines, penalties, and handcuffs.

VELSHI: Senator Chris Larson, thanks for joining us. We'll talk to you again. Senator Chris Larson, Wisconsin Democratic senator joining us from Illinois.

OK. It happened to Charlie Sheen. It didn't happen to a Swedish doctor. Should you get in trouble at work over stuff you do when you're not working? We're going to ask our "Stream Team" after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Well, we all know about Charlie Sheen who basically lost his TV job because of his off-the-job behavior. That standard apparently doesn't apply when it comes to Swedish doctors. Sweden's top medical ethics board has ruled that a Stockholm-area doctor can continue to treat patients even though he's an alcoholic. The board ruled that there's no evidence that the doctor's alcohol problem harmed any of his patients and that alcoholism alone is not sufficient to revoke a doctor's stories.

Both stories raise the same question.

So, let's bring in the "Stream Team." Ryan Mack is that author of "Living in the Village," he's in New York. Lisa Bloom is an attorney who's handled many employment cases. She is in Los Angeles.

Ryan, should your off-the-job behavior jeopardize your job?

RYAN MACK, PRES., OPTIMUM CAPITAL MANAGEMENT: Well, I mean, bottom line is, Ali, I'll tell you, feel free -- if I'm ever going under the knife and you find out my doctor is an alcoholic, feel free to wake me up so I can get another doctor. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, he's not able to get a driver's license, he had his license revoked. Why should he be allowed to get his medical license?

I mean, it's different, if individuals -- I mean, basketball players have to get tested to put a ball through a hoop. Then why shouldn't they have similar test of screenings for individuals to put some of those license in their hands and treat (INAUDIBLE).

I mean, I definitely feel that at the very least, if he's not going to get his license stripped, he should have at least be mandated to go through such a program to make sure he's cured of his illness. Alcoholism is an illness.

VELSHI: Lisa, what do you think about the Swedish doctor?

LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: Well, this is the difference between Swedish law and American law. In America, an employer can fire an employee for any reason except discrimination or if the employee has contract right. So, here in America, an employer can get away with that. But I think it's wrong.

Look, there are millions of people who are alcoholics but they are in different stages of recovery. In the Swedish case, the court found that the doctor's job was not affected at all. And I think that should be the test. Does this off-duty behavior come into the workplace? Does it affect work performance?

So, sure, can the guy. If not, let's let him keep his job. His chances of recovery are much better if he keeps his job.

VELSHI: All right. Let me ask you another question. The city of Chicago hired 139 ex-convicts for various jobs over the last two years. Now, they include a man who shot two police officers in the '70s, a convicted cocaine smuggler who is hired as a legislative aide, Chicago Mayor Richard Daley say ex-offenders deserve a second chance.

Ryan, you write about this in your book, "It Takes a Village." You actually have featured a number of people who have either had addictions or problems or have been ex-offenders. You tend to feel very strongly that they should get a second chance.

MACK: Absolutely they should get a second chance. I mean, look, these 650,000 (INAUDIBLE) this year. Most of them will be going back to prison, and much of that is because of the scene, the lack of opportunity.

Now, I'm not condoning irresponsible behavior at all, but the bottom line is, the operative word in that is ex-offenders, formerly incarcerated. And I actually have faith in the legal system that the rehabilitation process is effective to making sure individuals, when they come up, don't have to pay for the same debt twice. So, we have to get individuals the second chance. They make sure they can get reintegrated back into society more effectively.

VELSHI: All right. Lisa, this is the flip side of the first question we were talking about, about people who do things on their jobs. What do you think of people who have offended or who otherwise might have disqualified themselves for jobs? Should they be getting a second chance?

BLOOM: You know, the number one determining factor, Ali, in whether an ex-con stays straight and stays out of prison is whether that person can get a job. If you do the time, you know, you should have a chance to move on and get a job. I think that's extremely important.

With one exception, and I would say sex offenders. Sex offenders should never be allowed to work with children because the chances of recidivism are so high. But for everybody else, let's give them a job, let's give them the second chance but let's keep a close eye on them, too.

VELSHI: Ryan, let's take you back to the topic that while some people don't want talk about, it's what starts along this discussion is Charlie Sheen. You don't associate -- you think Charlie Sheen and the doctor in Sweden are two different stories?

MACK: I mean, with Charlie Sheen, I mean, this guy is not operating on anybody, you know? But I do feel that Charlie Sheen's actions outside of work at the end of the day -- I mean, if I had somebody in my company who was soliciting prostitutes and (INAUDIBLE) I think I'd have to fire them, too. For the simple fact that this guy -- it affects the branding. I don't want to be known as a type of a company that hires individuals who do that type of activities. So, that particular instance -- that particular action affects the brand of everything.

So, I definitely think CBS definitely has a worry and concern to worry about their brand. As an employer, they have a right to figure out exactly who work for them, who doesn't. And that is a viable threat. Some people might not believe so, but they do. So, obviously, they had to let them go.

VELSHI: And, Lisa, you seem to think that Charlie Sheen, it's not -- it wasn't the partying. It wasn't his behavior outside of work. It was the stuff he was saying.

BLOOM: You know, what galls me is that Charlie Sheen has had so many domestic violence incidents, incidents he's pled guilty to, that he settled out of court with woman after woman. None of that seemed to bother his employer as much as his bad-mouthing the executive producer of the show and bad-mouthing the network.

Having said that, let's not cry any tears for Charlie Sheen. He had a contract. It was renegotiated last May. He's at the top of his game at that time. I'm sure he's getting paid out millions of dollars once they pull the plug on that show. So, he's going to do very, very well.

VELSHI: Good to see you both. Lisa Bloom is an attorney with the Bloom firm. Ryan is the author of "Living in the Village" and he's the president of Optimum Capital Management. The book is great, by the way. I had a bit of a role in it and I think it's an important read.

Thanks to both of you. Great to see you both.

Hey, still ahead -- "XYZ" and 3M. I'm going to tell you why Post-it notes are suddenly a sticky subject.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Time now for the "XYZ" of it.

Last weekend, "The Financial Times" published quotes from an interview it conducted with George Buckley, the CEO of 3M, the company that makes all those Post-it notes and scotch tape and a host of other things. Buckley accused the Obama administration of being anti- business, calling the president's instincts Robin Hood-esque and saying politicians like President Obama forget that big businesses have a real choice between manufacturing in Canada and Mexico, which he says tend to be pro-business, or America, when he inferred is not.

I thought that was unusually inflammatory language for a CEO and I wanted to hear more about what exactly he would like to see changed. So, I invited Buckley on to the show. He declined. It seems he said his piece and he's done talking about it.

But is he right? We need American business, which has lots of money, to use that money to create jobs. I'm not sure there's evidence out there to support 3M's Buckley.

The president's chief of staff Bill Daley comes from the world of business, the president has corralled one of the greatest industrialists of our time, G.E. CEO Jeff Immelt to work with other CEOs to create jobs. I've spoken to several CEOs who say this administration is open to them and their concerns.

I don't see how in times like this it's responsible for a CEO of a major American corporation to lob a mortar over the trench and then retreat to cover.

George Buckley, if you want to stand and speak for American business, the mic is available. Be brave enough to step up to it and take the questions. And until you do, I'm done using Post-it notes.

That's it for me. CNN NEWSROOM continues with my good friend Brooke Baldwin.