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Civil War Raging in Libya; Moammar Gadhafi Enters Journalist Hotel in Tripoli; Moammar Gadhafi at Journalists' Hotel
Aired March 08, 2011 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And now top of the hour, developing right now, as we mentioned, civil war raging in Libya. East of the capital is fully in opposition control, but the closer one gets to Tripoli, the question who is in charge, a little trickier to answer.
Senior international correspondent Nic Robertson has been waiting in the lobby of a Tripoli hotel, as we were just pointing out, for hours, six hours, to see if Moammar Gadhafi indeed shows up.
Nic, let me guess. No sign.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You got it, Brooke, six hours and counting, and the journalists here are still lined up just where you saw them last hour, still waiting for him to arrive and still no explanation as to exactly what he will do and whether or not he will talk to us when he arrives.
But they have got this lined up right now, so he will walk right along the line of journalists right into the hotel. They could sneak him in through a side door, but security deciding to bring him all the way through the lobby here. We saw just a few days ago when he exited a big gathering that he held, he got into a golf cart and rode the length of the park there in a golf cart, quite surprising. So here he's going to be paraded in front of everybody, but we don't know what he's going to say -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: Well, as you wait and see if he shows up, Nic, if you can perhaps dispel some of these rumors, if there were negotiations taking place between Moammar Gadhafi and the opposition as to whether or not he would be willing to leave the country, true or false?
ROBERTSON: False. That's what his officials here tell us. They say that he was never going to be putting himself in this kind of position, that this is lies and propaganda by the opposition. Everything that we have heard from him, from his family, from government officials, they have said all along that the rebels can put down their guns and the government won't prosecute them.
They believe they are going to win the war. And they have also said that they won't get into any political negotiations about reforms and other things until, until the country is united and the rebels are defeated. So that's been their position. So, from a government point of view, this is this is the negative information they say being put out by the rebels. Just a non-starter is what we have from here, Brooke.
BALDWIN: I see. Thank you for explaining it so eloquently there, Nic Robertson, waiting for Gadhafi in Tripoli. Nic, my thanks to you.
(WEATHER UPDATE)
BALDWIN: And now, watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN (voice-over): A horrific case of child abuse ends in murder. A little girl dies, her twin brother severely burned by chemicals.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're being taped up with our arms and legs and put in a bathtub.
BALDWIN: But could she have been saved? Someone calls an abuse hot line while the girl was still alive.
Charlie Sheen vs. CBS. The actor gets fired, but does he actually have the upper hand in court?
CHARLIE SHEEN, ACTOR: Winning.
BALDWIN: We're on the case.
What are some members of Congress giving up for Lent? We have got the list of guilty pleasures.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: Here we go. If it's interesting, if it's happening right now, you are about to see it. Rapid fire, let's go.
Saint Louis, one deputy U.S. Marshal is in critical condition right now. The man believed to have shot him is dead. The gunfire erupted when federal and local authorities tried to serve an arrest warrant on the suspect, who reportedly refused to surrender. Another U.S. Marshal and a police officer were also shot, though their injuries not quite as bad.
And we are getting our first look now inside that dilapidated mobile home where 20 men and boys allegedly gang-raped this 11-year- old girl. And you can see the place, filthy -- 18 suspects charged in this case. More arrests are expected, and a lawyer representing some of the men says the number of suspects could reach 28. Boys charged in the case have made their first court appearance. You can see them walking and being shielded by that black blanket held up by relatives to keep them away from the cameras.
Also, this: An American disappears in the United Kingdom, and now her family is demanding answers. We're told Lieutenant Colonel Mary Ewing went diving in England, but she never came up. She is a war veteran and a master diver from Alabama. Rescue crews say the search has now turned into a recovery mission, but Ewing's daughter says no one is telling her what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIANNA JACKSON, MOTHER MISSING IN UNITED KINGDOM: She's tough. I mean, she's strong. And I can't believe that she just disappeared in the ocean and she was with someone and they just don't know where she is. That doesn't make any sense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: British police are calling her disappearance a missing person's case.
In Baltimore, a neighborhood in mourning over the death of a high school student stabbed to death outside of his home Sunday. Ronald Gibbs was a promising athlete, a boxer, who witnesses say was trying to protect his sister in a fight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHAWNETTE BASSETT, FAMILY FRIEND: Protect your sister. And she was his big sister. That's his first instinct. That's a man's job, protect your sister. And it's sad that he lost his life. Oh, God.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Ronald Gibbs was just 17 years of age, the man believed to have killed him still at large.
Look at this mess with me, an entire side of the house obviously gone. Imagine an SUV slamming into the house at 4:00 in the morning, but it's even more frightening than that. The SUV hit a baby's crib with the baby sleeping inside. Look. Is that the baby's mattress? The little girl suffered only a scratch on her head. Amazingly, her father says he found her under the degree inches from the SUV's front tire.
Massachusetts mudslide buries a small SUV in Greenfield here. Look at this, heavy rains, seeing mud and debris in the street. We're told everyone is OK. The mud also pushed part of the cemetery into the backyard of some of the homes there, crews cleaning up the mess. Quite a job, they have.
California, a thief walks into a church, steals a backpack, but inside there's an urn filled with a man's ashes, all of this happening half-an-hour before his funeral. We're told he grabbed the bag from the altar, the man's widow devastated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELEONORE HOCKABOUT, WIDOW: Shock, horror, terror for a moment, you know? What can you do? You can't do anything about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: What does that? The family is asking the suspect to please return the ashes, no questions asked.
Move over, McDonald's. The world has a new fast-food king, sort of. Subway now has more restaurant chains than McD's all around the world. The sandwich shop has something like 34,000 locations. The golden arches, however, still reportedly makes a little bit more dough.
And since we're talking fast food, researchers calling out the diabetes belt of America. Can you guess where that is? Look at the map with me. The areas in dark blue are the places where the disease type 2 diabetes is most prevalent. The states with the highest number of cases include Ohio, Pennsylvania, and most states in the South.
A tragic end to the search for an American student in Spain. Police find his body in a river, but are there signs of violence? That is ahead.
Also, some new twists in a disturbing case of child abuse and murder. Police say a foster dad killed his daughter, then soaked her twin brother in chemicals. But we're also now hearing that this girl was alive when someone raised a red flag. So who dropped the ball in this case? We're live with that one next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Police in Spain announcing they have discovered the body of an American college student missing for over a week now. Austin Taylor Bice disappeared last month. And they found his body after draining part of a river near where he was last seen. And, so far, police say the body does not indicate any signs of violence.
And you already know this here, parents of adopted twins, a boy and a girl, now facing first-degree murder charges. Police say the children were beaten, malnourished, taped up and forced to stay in a bathtub for hours. The girl was found -- let me pull away from that.
Let me take you live to Libya, to Tripoli, and we're now seeing the crush of media where the red carpet is where Moammar Gadhafi has just appeared.
Let's just listen to this.
BALDWIN: Let me bring in Hala.
So, what you're looking at is obviously dozens of members of the international media who have all been waiting for six-plus hours, including our own Nic Robertson, who I spoke with moments ago.
I want to bring in Hala Gorani from CNN International, who is watching this whole thing with me.
And we were waiting, we were thinking we might see him, but no one was entirely sure. Why is he there? Who is he speaking to?
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, you're never entirely sure when it comes to Moammar Gadhafi. Nobody is setting their watch by Moammar Gadhafi time, I can tell you that, since the beginning of this. It's always unpredictable whether or not he will show up.
Right now, I haven't gotten a look at him. I don't know, Brooke, if you have actually seen him.
BALDWIN: I haven't. I haven't.
GORANI: We can see a scrum. We can see people scrambling. Is Moammar Gadhafi in the middle of all this? Is he sort of being ushered away by security? We don't know. We understand he was there for an interview. Of course, word got out that he was going to show up at this hotel. And that's why all the media --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: And so everyone is camped out.
Weren't we supposed to see Moammar Gadhafi at some point this morning and he didn't show up there.
GORANI: Again, he didn't show up. But then when the red carpet was rolled out on the other side of the revolving door of this Tripoli hotel and the word got out that an important VIP, that a VIP of note was going to show up, that's when rumors and reports of Moammar Gadhafi appearing to address reporters started circulating.
What he will say is anyone's guess. But that said, that said, I think we can safely say at this point that he's not going to either step down or tell the opposition that he's willing to speak and come up with a plan to exit gracefully, you know.
BALDWIN: Why do you say that? Because we can't have that kind of high expectation?
GORANI: No, because both sides have shot those reports down quite vociferously today. So we're not expecting that. But then again, as with everything that is connected to Moammar Gadhafi, we have to wait and see. But it's definitely not something that we're expecting and it's not something that would fit into his personality or his style.
BALDWIN: I want to welcome our viewers in the United States and all around the world, CNN and CNN International.
I'm Brooke Baldwin sitting alongside Hala Gorani, and we want to walk you through what we're looking at unfolding live.
GORANI: And I think we're hearing Nic Robertson.
ROBERTSON: -- and the government has flatly denied from the outset. Indeed, initially, refusing to comment on such -- such baseless lies, Becky.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Nic, while we work out what's going on next, Moammar Gadhafi, of course, now entering your hotel just moments ago. I want to welcome all of you in the USA, as well. You're watching CNN and we are with Nic Robertson in Tripoli who has been waiting eight hours today for Moammar Gadhafi to pitch up at the hotel where the journalists are staying at the behest, let me tell you, of the government.
Nic on the line. Nic, if you can hear me, for our viewers in the U.S. who have just joined us, if you can describe what's going on in the past five, six minutes or so.
ROBERTSON: Well, Moammar Gadhafi arrived at the hotel. He pulled up in a cavalcade of about four or five large, white Land Cruisers. He got out of his vehicle surrounded by I would say perhaps half a dozen to a dozen bodyguards.
They swept into the hotel. There are more than 100 journalists and camera crews waiting for him to come in. And as he came in, the whole thing descended into pandemonium and this scrum to get the best picture.
He seemed to pause, he seemed to not know which way to go. In fact, for a leader of a country this size, someone who has been in power for 42 years, he seemed quite a diminutive figure as he tried to make his way through the throngs of press, not knowing which way to go. His minders trying to open up a way for him through the crowd.
But eventually, he made it through to a hall here in the hotel, and now we're looking at a screen that's deep with security guards lined up in front of that cloth screen. He's behind there. What happens next, we don't know. The expectation is that he will invite the other hundreds of journalists who are here for some sort of briefing, some sort of speech -- Becky.
ANDERSON: I know you spoke to the foreign minister yesterday about the possibly of military intervention. There's a lot of diplomatic wrangling going on particularly at the U.N., at the Security Council at present.
What did the foreign minister tell you about the possibility of any intervention at this point?
ROBERTSON: He was quite scathing about it. He said that the intent that Libya has high expectations from President Obama initially. That -- that from what the country has seen of him since they -- they have no faith in what he was saying. They say they have been calling, calling for sort of an international monitoring group to come into the country, said they have been calling for that day one.
And what they can see is clear from Libya and its leaders now is that the international community, particularly the United States, France and Britain want to divide Libya, want to partition it. He called it a return to the days of the colonies.
So his view is just that this is an effort by the international community to back the rebels and partition the country, east and west (ph), Becky. ANDERSON: OK. We are waiting for Moammar Gadhafi to either appear, hold a press conference, something is going on behind the curtain.
Nic Robertson is with us in the hotel in Tripoli where journalists are being put up at the behest of the Libyan government.
Nic, is it obvious whether any of his family members are with him?
ROBERTSON: No. He came in by himself. It was just his security team that came in with him when he came in, Becky. Neither of -- neither of his sons or anyone else appeared to be with him, Becky.
ANDERSON: While we wait, Nic, and I know this may be some time but let's stay with you here because it's an important moment in this -- in this crisis. And it is a crisis, let's face it, this is a civil war that seems to be getting worse.
Remind our viewers who may have just joined us, I want to remind them that we've seen fighting to the west, significant fighting with air strikes to the west of Tripoli today, about 30 miles away in a town called Ras Lanuf, which is an important strategic oil town, and up to the east of Tripoli as well. We're not talking hundreds or thousands of kilometers away from the capital here. We're talking tens of miles away. Ben Wedeman also talking to a story there which was rebel fighters who seemed to be -- being pushed back slightly by the government's forces now.
But, Nic, I know you spend time in both of those areas. What did you see when you were there?
ROBERTSON: Well, we were -- when we were in Zawiya yesterday, we were -- a security gentleman is telling me to move to the side here a little bit. This is the way we're often dealt with here by officials here. They tend to move us around a little bit.
When we were on the outskirts of Zawiya yesterday, we were able to hear heavy artillery detonations, we were able to hear heavy anti- aircraft gunfire, small-arms weapons fire going on. And that was -- that was what we were able to see and hear yesterday when we were outside Zawiya and we were very close, about a mile away from where the rebels were in the center of the town.
And what we've heard from a source who left today, he reports again tanks in the city that have been killing civilians he said today. He also said that the two medical centers -- we're just being moved on here a little bit. The two medical centers in the city had been closed down and that the army was taking out its wounded in ambulances for treatment elsewhere. So the situation in Zawiya with the medical centers closed down does give the perception that perhaps the army is getting more of an upper hand in defense of city.
But, again, another day of fighting, that's Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, five days of fighting in Zawiya now and today again casualties. Two doctors reported killed, both the medical centers, the only two medical centers there treating the wounded, the rebel wounded, have been closed down by officials.
And again, I'm walking backwards because we're being moved back by the security officials from the entranceway from where Moammar Gadhafi walked into just a few minutes ago, Becky.
ANDERSON: Yes, which brings me to my question. While we wait to find out what's going to happen in the next few moments, whether Moammar Gadhafi will indeed address the press or whether he will talk individually to journalists, we're not sure at the moment but we're going to wait to find out what happens, it brings me to another point.
There's much talk at present about the at least drafting of a resolution by the U.S., U.K. and France that would allow a no-fly zone over Libya, the objectives of which, of course, would be to protect Libyan civilians from government gunfire from the air and indeed to enforce or force a regime change at some point. Is it obvious that these air strikes at this point are targeted at civilians or at those who are armed?
ROBERTSON: Well, the government says -- (INAUDIBLE) military targets (INAUDIBLE) bombs dropped on checkpoints, they've seen bombs narrowly miss -- narrowly miss concentrations of (INAUDIBLE) but there also are reports of civilian casualties in all of that as well. And that, of course, is the risk of using aero weapons, that there will be civilian casualties and that, of course (INAUDIBLE).
However, having talked to government officials here over the past week, the possibility and threat that there may be a no-fly zone imposed on Libya has really, they told me, forced the government not to wait to see if that happens, but to push forward and speed up its efforts to retake areas in the east of the country.
So their reaction, the government here has felt the pressure of the threat of no-fly zones, but the way they've responded to that pressure is to accelerate the speed of their attacks and try to retake that ground by using air power quickly before there's a possibility of a no-fly zone being imposed, Becky.
ANDERSON: Just bring our viewers up to date. We are waiting on Moammar Gadhafi. Nic is in the hotel where Moammar Gadhafi walked in just moments ago.
Nic, bringing us back to Tripoli, we've been talking about towns to the east and to the west of the country. What about Tripoli? What's going on there?
ROBERTSON: Tripoli itself seems to be firmly under the control of the government here. The only weapons that I've seen out on the streets here over the weekend, for example, when there was a pro- government rally, some celebratory fire in the air Sunday morning. More gunfire during early morning. There were many, many Gadhafi supporters out on the streets firing their weapons.
And when we talked to opposition supporters here, they say the difficulty is for them, they cannot come out and protest because they are not armed and they feel that this puts them at a disadvantage to come out and express their feelings.
What we're seeing from the rebels in the east of the country, in Misrata just a hundred miles east of the capital in Zawiya, about 40 miles drive to the west, that the rebels there have been armed and that's what given them the strength to maintain their anti-government protests.
Here in the capital we have seen protesters come out, we've seen them come out on the weekend. Last Friday, the police then forced them back off the streets with tear gas, live rounds also fired. So the protesters in Tripoli lacked the power to take on the government and establishment, and for that reason the government very much has Tripoli under control.
But a lot of anxiety here. If you talk to the average citizen here who has no interest left or right of this government, their big fear is for their families, what's going to happen to their families. The children don't go to school, their children wake up at night crying, the future of this country is very uncertain.
Their lives at this moment are very uncertain. They realize a civil war could descend upon them and that this could be a bloody time for them. So there's a huge amount of stress below the surface while the government does maintain relatively firm control, Becky.
ANDERSON: Well, listening to Nic Robertson live from Tripoli. Our viewers in the U.S., you will get a commercial break at this point.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Welcome back to CNN breaking news. Let me bring you back up to speed as to what we've been watching out of the capital city of Libya, out of Tripoli. Some 100 journalists have been waiting six-plus hours for Moammar Gadhafi to appear at this hotel. He has now done so, flanked by a team of security guards. You can see the crush, the scrum inside as the red carpet is rolled out for Moammar Gadhafi.
Let's watch the video of him arriving.
(VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: We have just been listening to Nic Robertson reporting also on CNN saying none of Gadhafi's family is there. About 100 journalists. He appeared getting out of a Land Cruiser.
And now Hala Gorani standing next to me as we can walk through the -- sort scene right now. We watch and we wait --
GORANI: We wait.
BALDWIN: -- to see what he has to say.
GORANI: Along with the 100 journalists who have been waiting for six-plus hours at this Tripoli hotel. What next is the question? What is Moammar Gadhafi going to do? Is he going to hold a news conference? Will he hold some sort of a briefing? Will he speak for six hours? Will he speak for six seconds? You don't know. You never know.
At this point we know he's with security, so it might be some sort of address that will last a touch longer than the very short address he gave in Green Square last week. But of course, we're just going to have to watch and wait with the rest of the journalists and perhaps the rest of the world.
BALDWIN: As we sit here and watch with the rest of the world, I want to go to CNN senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman, reporting live from Libya.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: -- just sort of rumors being pushed along by the media. But here there's such a level of mistrust for Moammar Gadhafi that no one really wants to make a deal with him. The determination on this side of the country is that they want to see him go.
ANDERSON: Yes, all right. Interesting stuff. And one of the big question marks, of course, at the border has been over the past 72 hours or so is, why the significant slowdown in people looking to flee the country?
There has been talk -- nothing -- no evidence to suggest it as of yet -- but talk by the aid agencies here that there is a possibility that the Libyan army are now preventing people from making their way up to the -- certainly, on this side of the border, the Tunisian/Libyan border, and as I say, we can't stand that up at the moment, but it's certainly a concern for those who are working up at the border.
Nic, we're going to leave you for a moment. See if you can find out what's going on in that hotel, see if you can find out whether we're going to get hear from Moammar Gadhafi anytime soon. We appreciate what you're doing, and we'll be back to you, shortly.
Ben Wedeman is to the east of the country, close to a town called Benghazi. Ben, you've been listening to myself and Nic talking as, of course, we wait for the appearance of Moammar Gadhafi. What do you want to add at this point?
WEDEMAN: Actually, I wasn't listening, Becky, because I was doing something completely different. But, obviously, everybody has been paying a lot of attention to Tripoli, listening to these rumors that there's some sort of deal afoot to allow Moammar Gadhafi to step down.
What we're hearing here is that, first of all, the opposition leaders are saying there is no deal, that it's all just sort of rumors being pushed along by the media. But here, there's such a level of mistrust for Moammar Gadhafi that no one really wants to make a deal with him.
The determination on this side of the country is that they want to see him go. When you speak to the fighters who are trying to make progress, push an offensive further west, they don't want to only see Moammar Gadhafi go, they're talking about, basically, hanging him in Bab al-Azizia, his compound in the Libyan capital.
There is a feeling that the situation here has gotten to the point of no return. There's no way anybody's going to allow for the central government in Tripoli to reassert its control until the head of that government goes. Becky?
ANDERSON: We're speaking to Ben Wedeman in Benghazi. For those who are not as familiar, perhaps, as you are with the lay of the land in Libya, Ben, just explain how strategic an area like that which you are in is for both the rebels and, indeed, of course, the government forces?
WEDEMAN: Actually, I'm not in Benghazi, I'm much further to the west of there, sort of the central area, where a lot of this fighting is going on, Becky, is between Brega and Ras Lanuf. And both of those towns have major refineries. The biggest refineries in the country.
And these are refineries that not only produce the petrol that fuels the cars of Libya, they also produce the natural gas that provides the power to run the power plants. Not in -- just in the east, but also in the west.
So, whoever controls these two towns, Ras Lanuf and Brega, has the possibility to, basically, strangle the other side. At the moment, the opposition is saying that they're not going to cut off the power to the west, to Tripoli. But the worry is that if central government forces, the Libyan army, is able to take control, re-take control, of Ras Lanuf and Brega, that they might do exactly that.
Because we understand from sources in Benghazi that when the revolt was just beginning in its first week, there was an order form Tripoli to cut the power to Benghazi to punish it for its revolt. So, the worry is that, if the Libyan army takes control of Ras Lanuf, of Brega, again, they may do exactly that. Becky?
ANDERSON: Ben Wedeman, there, reporting for you from outside of Tripoli.
OK, let's just bring you up to date on exactly what we know at this point. I want to bring up some pictures for you. Just moments ago, Moammar Gadhafi entered the hotel where the journalists in Tripoli have been staying who are there at the behest of the government, of course.
Nic Robertson is in amongst that throng and, as soon as we find out what Moammar Gadhafi intends to do, of course, we will bring it to you. Will he hold a news conference for the journalists there? Will he speak to them individually? At this point, we don't know, so we're waiting on information from Nic, and we'll get Nic back on this just as soon as we know.
As far as the potential for a deal, a negotiated exit deal that you may have heard reports about earlier on in the day for Moammar Gadhafi, well, neither the government nor the opposition are now prepared to stand that up. In fact, you heard Ben Wedeman and Nic Robertson saying that it would be very unlikely, the opposition, now would be prepared to offer Gadhafi a negotiated exit deal.
The other thing we've been hearing, today, is the escalation of fighting, of air strikes. The west of Tripoli -- and I must remind you, when I talk about to the west of Tripoli, I'm talking about 30 miles from the capital, we are not talking about hundreds of miles, here. Just 30 miles to the west of the capital, evidence of further air strikes today on one of the roads leading into a strategic oil town.
And, as Ben suggested he's -- in and around that area, he's also seeing evidence of more air strikes against rebels who, where Ben is, at least, are being pushed back slightly. Although Ben says their determination to continue -- continues.
Those pictures that you are seeing, of course, are coming out of Tripoli for you. I want to bring in a guest for you, now. The head of the UNHCR, Antonio Guterres, is with me at Djerba Airport. With us, here, at Djerba Airport, of course, are thousands of male migrant workers.
I must say, before we start this conversation, I think the UNHCR and the other aid agencies and the Tunisian army have done the most remarkable job, and I think they should be thanked for what they've done by everybody around the world. Let's find out what your biggest challenges are at this point.
ANTONIO GUTERRES, UN HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR REFUGEES: At the present moment, bringing the Bangladeshis home. Today, 1,000 more arrived, and --
ANDERSON: Here at the airport.
GUTERRES: No, arrived --
ANDERSON: At the border.
GUTERRES: At the border. We were very successful, together with the National Organization for Migration and the support of the international community to bring back to Egypt the almost 50,000 Egyptians we had stranded at this border.
But now, the problem is even more complex. We have 13,000 Bangladeshis at this border, almost 4,000 at the Egyptian border. Bangladesh is very far away. We need flights, and we need the international community to put more flights at the disposal of the agencies working here. And we need countries to facilitate the way.
Sometimes, to ask for permission to go through a country, you need lots of bureaucracy. We need it to be much more simple.
ANDERSON: And let's explain just what's been going on at this airport today, for example. It just shows the efforts that the international community is making. There have been about 1200 Bangladeshi male migrant workers coming through here, today. There have been four flights that have taken off, and there's an expectation of four, five, or six flights going forward for the next ten days, which should get most of the Bangladeshis, of course, from the border.
Those flights have been sponsored by the Spanish today, by the Belgian military and, indeed, by the IOM. And one assumes that that will continue.
GUTERRES: I hope so, because today, a little bit more than 1,000 left, but 1,000 arrived at the border. So, we need to increase this air bridge to Dhaka. We need to have more support from the international community, and it's absolutely essential to bring these people home.
And it's very important to say, migrants that cross this border into Tunisia, they don't want to go to Europe, they don't want to go to a developed country. They want to go back home. And it's the -- I believe, the duty and the interest of the international community to support these people, to end their plight, and to allow them to go to their countries of origin.
ANDERSON: Stay with me for one moment. I think we just want to bring one of our reporters back in. Who do we want to bring in, at this point? Is it Nic Robertson, who's in -- ? Richard Roth. Let's get you to the United Nations and to Richard Roth in New York.
Richard, you know we're waiting on -- well, something from Moammar Gadhafi. He's in the hotel where the journalists are, Nic Robertson included, in Tripoli. And while we wait for that, let's get the very latest from you as to what the UN Security Council is doing at this point in and around, for example, a no-fly zone for Libya.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR UNITED NATIONS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and having been a reporter in Libya and receiving word that Colonel Gadhafi might speak, you never know. It could be one minute, it could be hours, or you're taken somewhere else. Obviously, the situation is different now.
No-fly zone, actually brought up for the first time behind closed doors with the full Security Council. One of many options discussed in informal consultations by the 15 nations. It's inching along as an idea. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton of the United States being quoted in an interview as saying this no-fly zone or any international action has got to be coming from the international community, from the United Nations, not just from the United States.
China and Russia would be opposed, at least initially, regarding any instrument, such as a no-fly zone, that might in any way lead to military intervention.
There was some wiggle room, I observed, in some comments out of Beijing from the government spokesman there earlier today, saying that what's important is the restoration and the stability of Libya after any renewed international action.
We'll have to watch that very closely. Diplomatic niceties, diplomatic movements sometimes can be incremental. You have to look at one word or the other. But it's on the boards at the UN, where the United Kingdom and France are working on a draft resolution that is supposed to be a contingency plan, should there be a need to go in to use it.
What many of the countries, Becky, are waiting for is the Arab League and the African Union to authorize or request a no-fly zone. That's going to make it easier, provide political cover for other countries reluctant on the Security Council to say the regional nations want this, we should do this. Back to you.
ANDERSON: The UK has said today that it supports, in principle, of course, a no-fly zone. They're involved in the writing of the draft resolution. But they say that the legal basis for a no-fly zone over Libya would have to be very clear. What do we know about the way that this resolution is being drafted at this point?
ROTH: Well, they're not showing us the wording. It may be in its key element stage with attorneys. These words can change in a second once they go formally behind closed doors. Britain, the United States, they don't want another repeat of Iraq. They don't want the arguments, the controversies, whether the Security Council really authorized use of force. They've been down that road.
You can see that in Secretary Clinton's remarks, that it should come from the UN, not the United States. You also have had US -- NATO comments saying that a no-fly zone may not be that significant because there aren't as many flights. That's not really the issue. But another US military official saying that, indeed, helicopters are the target in any type of no-fly zone.
And you also heard talk that you need to take out Libyan air defenses, which would certainly be military intervention, in order to establish a safe no-fly zone. A lot of issues still to go. Very complex, said one Security Council diplomat.
ANDERSON: Libya, of course, has no representation at the UN, as far as I understand, at present, given that the UN representative from Libya resigned a couple of weeks ago. How involved, though, would those who have in the past worn the Libyan hat be in these negotiations, now? And these negotiations amongst those parties that are integral to any decision-making on military intervention?
ROTH: Well, actually, there is still representation by Libya at the UN. It's another continuing, interesting sidebar to this whole story. The Libyan government, Colonel Gadhafi asked last week for their own representative to come to New York to represent them after their own ambassadors turned on the government and pleaded for sanctions against their own nation to come to the aid of the Libyan people,.
My colleague, Whitney Hurst, just got off the phone with current diplomats, Ambassador Dabbashi, the deputy, he's still in place. They have not seen, they say, or heard of Ambassador Treki --
ANDERSON: Right. ROTH: Who was nominated by the Libyans. So, those people played an emotional role in getting UN action to come together, 50 nations, very rapidly, according to observers. Not traditional by UN standards to come together on a sanctions resolution.
The allies behind this new resolution may go down that same road and say, "The Arab League wants it, the African Union wants it, you should do it," and appeal to their sensitivities to prevent further violence against civilians.
ANDERSON: Richard Roth at the UN, Richard, thank you for that.
All right, let's just get you the very latest shots out of Tripoli. If you've just joined us, you will have missed the entrance of Moammar Gadhafi, and what an entrance it was, into the hotel in Tripoli where the journalists are staying at the behest of the government at present.
It's a government-sponsored -- it's an organized trip, there. The only way, in fact, let's be honest and be frank, that the international media can get a sense of what's going on in Tripoli.
These were the scenes just about 20, 25 minutes ago, when Moammar Gadhafi entered the hotel. Now, Nic Robertson is in amongst the throng of journalists and photographers who were there waiting for Gadhafi, and they've been waiting for eight hours, and they may wait longer.
He's inside the hotel, now, surrounded by his security and, at present, we have no idea whether he's going to speak to the -- to the press in its entirety, whether he'll speak to journalists one by one, or whether -- well, I, frankly, I guess he'd just decide to go again.
Anyway, that is the picture coming out of the hotel, and we'll, of course, get back to Nic Robertson in Tripoli just as soon as we get a sense of what is going on there.
I want to get us, though, to Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, now. We've been talking about the possibility of a no-fly zone over Libya, the objectives of which, of course, Barbara, one assumes would be to protect civilians who are being hit by air strikes from government forces from the sky. And, indeed, at some point, looking for an effective regime change.
Difficult to say, at this point, whether Gadhafi's forces are targeting civilians or just targeting -- and I use "just" loosely there -- just targeting armed rebels. And that will be important, won't it, as they come to a decision about what the international community does next.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that's right, Becky. President Obama, here in Washington, has made very clear he wants the international community to be able to act very rapidly if you have this nightmare scenario of the Gadhafi forces really opening up on Libyan civilians, if you start seeing wholesale bloodshed across the country. This may come from air strikes. It may also come from ground action by forces loyal to Gadhafi, so this is very problematic.
That's one of the things they are looking at. The question, perhaps, is as Moammar Gadhafi walks into that hotel in Tripoli at this hour, does he feel any of this military pressure from the international community?
We are hearing a lot of talk about planning, maybe no-fly zones, maybe have them, all kinds of options on the table. In fact, government saying all options are on the table, but nobody making that decision to cross the line and move towards military action. That's a very serious matter.
Gadhafi knows that. He knows that there's very little stomach for action against him at this point.
So does he feel the pressure? Does he feel any pressure to change his ways? Does he feel any pressure to step down and leave without the threat of imminent military action? That may be a very problematic thing.
You know, you're beginning to hear people say this could be a sustained conflict. It could all go on for some time.
FIONNUALA SWEENEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Barbara Starr, this is Fionnuala Sweeney, in London. We'll be going back to Becky in Tunis in a moment, at Djerba Airport in Tunisia.
But let me ask you -- one would think that U.S. resources specifically are rather stretched at the moment given events in Afghanistan and Iraq and so forth. What is being said at the Pentagon about the U.S. military capability, if it were to take part in some sort of coalition no-fly zone?
STARR: Well, let's give you the lay of the land as it starts right now.
There are a number of U.S. Navy warships in the Mediterranean with hundreds of Marines on board, helicopters. They can begin to do operations if ordered. There is a U.S. Navy aircraft carrier with a full fighter air wing on board nearby in the Red Sea. They could be called into action.
There are a number of aircraft, U.S. aircraft stationed in Europe, Italy, Germany, certainly could be moved further south into Italy, very easily within range of Libya. But again, what would they do, you know?
Defense Secretary Robert Gates has been sounding a real note of caution about a no-fly zone. As you look at that map, he says those aircraft would have to come across the Mediterranean, launch strikes against Libya's north coast along the Mediterranean and begin to bomb and take out anti-aircraft sites and take out radar sites, begin 24/7 operations over Libya and really clamp down on Libyan forces.
What do you get out of that? Well, you could put the Libyan air force on the ground very rapidly. You could keep them from flying. Helicopters are another problem though.
They fly low and at a very slow speed, very hard to detect in a no-fly environment, very hard to go after them and, again, we see these high-profile Libyan air force attacks that are absolutely terrible against civilians. There's still a lot of ground action by the Libyan army so, you know, a no-fly zone isn't really going to stop that.
And Gates has been warning the world community that you are really talking about opening up a third conflict for the United States and for the allies. Gadhafi knows that. He knows my bet is exactly where the world community stands on this, but the clock could be ticking against him. Again, the president says and the world community says this can't go on forever, and that they won't tolerate violence against Libyan civilians -- Fionnuala.
SWEENEY: And Barbara, as we await what we expect to be some kind of news conference from Colonel Gadhafi in Tripoli, at a hotel where journalists have been waiting throughout the day, CNN USA, our sister network, will take a break.
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BALDWIN: Welcome back to CNN breaking news out of the capital city of Libya, out of Tripoli.
We have now seen just in the last minutes here the first few clips of Moammar Gadhafi. And let's roll the video, guys, because this is just a few moments before the 42-year Libyan leader gets behind a curtain.
You can see he had some sort of glasses on and a turban. It was quick. It was fast.
This is the scene. This is the scrum, the crush of reporters, some 100-plus journalists, inside this Tripoli hotel. And they have literally rolled out the red carpet for this leader.
Why is he there? Who will he be speaking to? What will he be speaking about?
These are all the questions on many, many minds, about 100 reporters, photojournalists there in Tripoli. Apparently, he arrived by land cruiser, flanked by bodyguards and no other family members.
As we watch and wait, I want to take you back to CNN International, live.
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ROBERTSON: -- the fighting in Zawiya, a 40 minutes' drive away from here.
What exactly is happening in Misrata? What exactly are government forces doing there? Why can't we go and see and report from these places? So many questions are on people's minds, but right now he's behind those curtains in one of the rooms there -- Becky.
ANDERSON: That's right. OK.
Let's just remind our viewers of how he made his entrance, Nic. It was quite a scrum, wasn't it, as Moammar Gadhafi pulled up outside the hotel and came in with his security guys? Just talk us through some of that.
ROBERTSON: Well, we could see his cavalcade pulled up, about four or five, maybe six, white vehicles. People were sort of at the head of the group with a number of security guards all around him. And the security guards sort of established a narrow sort of pathway for him to walk past what were many, many and dozens upon dozens upon dozens of cameras, and of course that whole neat line fell apart as they came in with people trying to get the best picture they could.
I landed up in a large flower pot, actually, and managed to get out of there and continue. But that's exactly how chaotic it was. People were trying to get in front of him.
And he seemed -- I must say, this is a man who has been ruling this country, one of the largest countries in Africa, for 42 years. He seems an awfully diminutive figure amongst the security and the cameras pressing around and pressing in on him. And I couldn't help feel this was some kind of metaphor for the pressure he must feel from the international community and the situation internally that he's in, in his country right now, as we're literally seeing it break in two in front of us.
That's what his government officials have been saying, that the international community is trying to partition his country. He's been absolutely (INAUDIBLE) reunited. Obviously, that's another key question we'll ask him if we can get the chance later -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Nic, remind us, when was the last time we heard from Moammar Gadhafi? And what did he say?
ROBERTSON: Well, he was speaking last night I believe to a French television channel. He spoke late last week for about two -- no, more than two-and-a-half hours, about three hours also, on a live state broadcast, speaking across the whole spectrum of issue, reminding the nation how he leads the country -- rather how he leads the people in the country, reminding people what he'd done for the country, how the country had become united under him, how he chased out the colonial powers. And then setting out his position towards the rebels, telling them that they could put their weapons down, setting out his position for the international community, saying that if they wanted intervention, they should remember that that would cost thousands of lives. And said if that's what was in their mind to do, then Libya was ready for it.
It was fighting speak. This was a speech of a man -- and this was heard subsequently -- the speech of a man who is insisting that he's staying in power.
We've heard now from President Obama and this report of his phone conversation with British Prime Minister David Cameron saying that one of the key issues now that should focus international force on Libya is that Moammar Gadhafi needs to go, needs to step down. And this is (INAUDIBLE) of what the Libyan leader is saying, has said, and he intends to do in the future, Becky.
How do you reconcile these two positions? How does one -- or his own government, if they want to ask him to step down.
These are very, very difficult issues, and ones that nobody here is really coming up with an answer yet. But when you talk to people in this city, when you talk to intellectuals here, I think very few of them disagree that Moammar Gadhafi's time is limited. And for the country's future, he has served it, they would say, greatly in the past, but now it's time to move on. And they see the need for change. And, of course, many others we talked to hear would argue much more strongly than some of the intellectuals and say this man is a vicious tyrant who kept us oppressed and down, and it's time for (INAUDIBLE) -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Yes.
Nic Robertson at the hotel where Moammar Gadhafi is. He walked in about 40 minutes or so ago now. We're not clear exactly what he proposes to do there, but there is a throng of journalists. Nic, of course, amongst them.
And we await Gadhafi's appearance from behind what is a screen or a curtain. You're looking at video of Gadhafi as he walked in. You may have seen this before, but it's quite something to see -- quite something to see, as you see Gadhafi coming through.
Let me bring you back to we are here, just in case you're wondering what I'm doing at what is evidently an airport. This is Djerba Airport, close to the Tunisian/Libyan border where we, for some days now, have been covering the story of migrant workers who have been fleeing the fighting in Libya since February the 20th. Behind me, about a thousand Bangladeshi migrant workers who were evacuated down from the U.N.'s transit camp today on the border to here, awaiting a flight out to Dhaka.
They have been a real priority over the past couple of days for the UNHCR and other aid agencies here. They really had very little when they got to the border, and very little support from their government. They have, though, gotten an overwhelming amount of support from the international community now.
Today, two flights sponsored by the Spanish, one sponsored by the Belgian military, and one sponsored by the IOM, the aid agency helping these guys. You see behind me -- we've got a whole load of baggage over here, to my right. And beyond, you can't quite see, but there are male migrant workers hoping to get back to Dhaka tomorrow who will be sleeping tonight in this airport. But let me tell you, it's a lot more comfortable here than it is up at the border.
It is organized and it is calm at the UNHCR's transit camp at the border. It is quite a remarkable feat given what they've had to deal with over the past week or so.
What we're seeing at the border has been very interesting as well, and there's still a question mark as we close out the coverage at least from here for the time being on CNN. Do consider this -- we have no idea, nor do the aid agencies or the Tunisian army, who have also worked effectively here on the border, we have no idea as to what is going on, on the other side of the border.
We've seen male migrant workers coming over the border in what is now being described only as a tickle. There were as many as 1,000 an hour at one point at the height of this.
The question is this: has everybody who wants to flee fled, or is something going on, on the other side of the border, that is preventing people from leaving? There were more than 1.5 million migrant workers in Libya when this fighting began. Only 10 percent them -- and that is nearly 200,000 -- have made their way to either this or the Egyptian/Libyan border.
I'm Becky Anderson at Djerba Airport in Tunisia.
You've been watching coverage live from here as we've been in Tripoli, awaiting the appearance of Moammar Gadhafi, who is currently inside the hotel where Nic Robertson is staying.
Stick with CNN. I'm going to get you to "THE SITUATION ROOM," my colleagues there, to continue our coverage.
