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Muslim Radicalization Hearing Underway; Wisconsin Capitol on Lockdown; Paying Cash for a New Home; White House Fights Bullying
Aired March 10, 2011 - 10:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Live from Studio 7, I`m Suzanne Malveaux.
I want to get you up to speed for Thursday, the 10th of March.
An emotional and testy House hearing is under way right now. Homeland Security Chairman Peter King says today`s testimony will assess al Qaeda`s recruitment of Muslims in the United States, but critics say that it broadly paints all Muslim-Americans as terrorists.
Congressman Keith Ellison, one of two Muslims in the House, broke down telling the story of a young Muslim-American who died in the World Trade Center.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. KEITH ELLISON (D), MINNESOTA: Salman Hamdani was a fellow American who gave his life for other Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Moammar Gadhafi`s fighters hit rebels in the oil town of Ras Lanuf again today. For the first time, ships in the Mediterranean bombarded the city. Gadhafi`s ground forces shot mortars at a hospital and mosque.
NATO defense ministers are debating military options on Libya at a meeting in Brussels today. Specifically, a no-fly zone. That, championed by Britain and France. France today recognized the National Transition Council in Benghazi as Libya`s legitimate government.
Gadhafi has put a $400,000 bounty on this man`s head, Mustafa Abdul-Jalil, Libya`s former justice minister who now leads the interim government in Benghazi. He pleaded for the international community to act in this exclusive interview with CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MUSTAFA ABDUL-JALIL, LEADER, INTERIM TRANSITIONAL NATIONAL COUNCIL (through translator): There has to be immediate action. The longer the situation carries on, the more blood is shed. That`s the message that we want to send to the international community. They have to live up to their responsibility with regards to this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Former U.N. nuclear chief Mohamed ElBaradei says that he`s going to be a candidate for the Egyptian presidency if the process is truly democratic. ElBaradei says that constitutional changes written by Egypt`s military rulers are superficial. A referendum on the amendment is March 19th.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: Shame! Shame! Shame! Shame! Shame!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Furious protesters flood the Wisconsin Capitol after Republicans pass a bill to cripple collective bargaining rights. Republicans separated the collective bargaining measure from a budget bill. That meant absent Democrats were not needed for a vote, bringing a three-week standoff to an end. Democrats are now considering a lawsuit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON ERPENBACH (D), WISCONSIN STATE SENATE: We`re going to get together today, I would imagine, somewhere around noon and just talk about what our options are. There`s a pretty strong legal argument, even though I`m not a lawyer, that they did violate open meetings laws in the state of Wisconsin, and we take that very seriously. Everybody does. You have to post it at least two hours ahead, usually 24 hours ahead, and they didn`t do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: A mental competency hearing for Tucson shooter suspect Jared Lee Loughner is set for May. Loughner pleaded not guilty Wednesday to dozens of new charges in the January 8th shopping center shooting that left six people dead. He`d already been charged with the attempted assassination of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords.
And President and Mrs. Obama are leading a first-of-its-kind summit today. It is a conference to stop bullying. Teachers, parents, students, and psychologists are taking part in these daylong discussions. The White House is streaming today`s event on its Web site, as well as its Facebook page.
And today the Dalai Lama announced that he wants to end his political role and shift power to the prime minister of Tibet`s government in exile. Analysts say the change would prevent a political vacuum after his death. The Dalai Lama remains the spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism.
Actress Lindsay Lohan will be back in a Los Angeles courtroom at the bottom of the hour. Lohan is expected to tell the judge whether she`s going to take a plea deal and certain jail time. She`s accused of shoplifting a $2,500 necklace.
Well, more on our lead story, the emotional and impassioned hearing over radicalized Muslims in this country. It is playing out right now on Capitol Hill.
Committee Chairman Peter King says the ultimate goal is to prevent terrorist attacks. Critics say that King is unfairly singling out American-Muslims.
We have in-depth coverage. Our senior congressional correspondent, Dana Bash, she is tracking the testimony. We`re going to get analysis from our chief political correspondent, Candy Crowley. And former FBI assistant director Tom Fuentes has insight from a law enforcement perspective.
I want to start off with you, Dana. We saw an experience, a very rare moment that we see up there on the Hill, and that was really the emotional testimony from Representative Keith Ellison. Give us a sense of what that was like to see. And what was the reaction there among those who saw him tell that story about the Muslim-American who was killed in the 9/11 attacks?
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, to answer that last question first, there were some members of the panel, his fellow members, who were emotional, tearing up, just along with him. And what was so powerful about what Congressman Ellison did is he wrapped up his testimony telling the story, as you mentioned, of a 23-year-old paramedic and also police cadet who died on 9/11. And he didn`t just talk about him in that respect. He talked about him as sort of an all-American guy.
And as one source who follows these issues quite well e-mailed to me as we were watching, that what he did was kind of brilliant in a way in terms of what he was trying to get across, which was he wrapped in the American experience and the Muslim-American experience. And what he was trying to do there is get to the heart of why, from his perspective, he thinks that the whole tenor and the goal of these hearings are misguided, because the focus, of course, is on the Muslim community and radicalization in the Muslim community. So that`s why that was so incredibly powerful, that bit of testimony.
But more broadly, what we have heard -- and we`re just actually getting into the question-and-answer period with these panelists -- is testimony from Muslim-Americans and also the father of somebody who was a Muslim convert, family members who were radicalized, and also the man we`re seeing there now, a Muslim-American who, frankly, agrees with Peter King and agrees with many of those who say that the Muslim community, and particularly Muslim leaders, are not doing enough to root out this danger and help law enforcement with this issue.
Peter King was very, very unapologetic, very brazen, I think is probably a fair word to use, in talking -- opening up this hearing, Suzanne, talking about the fact that he knows that there`s criticism. But he feels that political correctness will only hurt the ultimate goal, from his perspective, and that is to start a dialogue on what everybody agrees is a very big problem, which is the idea of the radicalization of Americans in this country.
MALVEAUX: And Dana, we`re going to get back to you. I want to bring in Tom Fuentes, about your thoughts from a law perspective point of view. I want you to set the record straight here.
Congressman King said that 15 percent of Muslim men would support suicide bombings. And here was part of his testimony. I want you to take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PETER KING (R-NY), CHAIRMAN, HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: I have repeatedly said that the overwhelming majority of Muslim- Americans are outstanding Americans and make enormous contributions to our country. But there are realities we can`t ignore.
For instance, the Pew poll which said that 15 percent of Muslim- American men between the age of 18 and 29 could support suicide bombings. This is the segment of the community al Qaeda is attempting to recruit. To combat this threat, moderate leadership must emerge from the Muslim community.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Tom, you`re the one person who can really answer the questions and put this in perspective. Is Congressman King right? Does he have this right here, that the fact that 15 percent of Muslim men would support suicide bombings?
TOM FUENTES, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Actually, Suzanne, that figure sounds pretty high to me. I don`t know what the source of that number is. But I can tell you from the law enforcement perspective, that especially in the aftermath of 9/11, the efforts by the FBI, state and local law enforcement agencies to establish strong partnerships in cooperation within all of the communities within their area of responsibility was enormous.
I was in charge of the Indianapolis division of the FBI in 2002 and 2003. The headquarters of the Islamic Society of North America is just outside Indianapolis. I had a very close relationship with Dr. Sayid (ph), who was in charge of this society, invited him to speak frequently to all FBI employee meetings. He invited me to speak at his headquarters and at the mosque on numerous occasions. And that was in 2002. Those efforts by the FBI and on other agencies have only increased over the years.
MALVEAUX: Do you think that these hearings -- I mean, Congressman King says that this will improve the dialogue, the discussions about the possibility of Muslims being radicalized and people coming forward. Do you think it will have the opposite effect and that Muslim-Americans will be like, do you know what, we`re not going to be speaking with law enforcement here, we`re being singled out?
FUENTES: Well, I think you could have both effects. And I think the negative aspect is -- has already started just by having the name of the hearings imply that the government is somehow targeting Islam, targeting the Islamic community.
Now, there is radicalization, and it occurs all over the world. As Jeanne Meserve mentioned earlier in a report, it happened on a much more frequent basis in Europe. And in my travels around the world at the time, running the FBI`s international program, you know, many European authorities would tell me that they were jealous of the United States, that in this country, we assimilate immigrant populations very quickly, and we were not going to have this radicalization problem to the extent that they have had it.
Now, it has occurred. And the question is, is it part of the community? Is it occurring --
MALVEAUX: Right.
FUENTES: -- in the Islamic community, or is it occurring in the heads of individuals who have access to the information?
For example, if I could continue one second --
MALVEAUX: Just very quickly.
FUENTES: -- if you look at the Pakistani kids that went to -- that left Virginia and went to Pakistan a while back, their parents didn`t know what they had in mind. They thought that one of them was going to get a bride. So if you don`t have people aware of what someone is thinking, and especially their own family members, their own parents, their own friends, it`s going to be very difficult to say this is a community problem.
MALVEAUX: And Tom, I want to bring in Candy Crowley because we want to be real here.
We`re getting pretty close to what you and I have known in Washington, the silly season, when it comes to all things turning politics. But critics of these hearings, they look at this and they say, you know what? This is the same Republican playbook at work, fear-mongering, that Republicans are trying to appear strong in defense, trying to paint Democrats as weak on national security.
What do you think are the politics at play here from both sides, if you see them at all?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think I would tell you that Republicans say this is the same old Democratic way of trying to paint us when we bring up legitimate questions from their point of view to certain things that need to have answers, they try to paint us as a bunch of mean white guys. So we`ve seen this argument play out whether it has to do with immigration, with Latinos, with African-Americans. I mean, it is a problem, an image problem that the Republicans have had for some time.
They say it is not in reality, but certainly there is an image problem that they are not sympathetic to minority rights, that they are not sympathetic to minority plights, that kind of thing. And this does dovetail into that. And you can`t -- you know, it`s a committee room on Capitol Hill, and so you will always look at the politics of something.
I wanted to just put a quick P.S. to your discussion there. The poll that Congressman King was referring to about the 15 percent of young Muslims, American-Muslims, that`s a Pew poll. I know this just because we researched it last weekend.
And I think it was around 2007, and it showed about 15 percent thought that there were times when suicide bombings could be justified. You know, it was rarely, and I can`t remember all the specifics of it, but it was 15 percent. That`s where that number comes from.
MALVEAUX: OK. Candy, thank you very much.
Candy Crowley, Dana Bash, Tom Fuentes, we`ll get back to all of you as we continue to watch these hearings.
And we also want to hear from you as well. What do you think will come out of these hearings?
You can give me your opinion on my Facebook page. Just go to Facebook.com/SuzanneCNN, or Tweet me. I`m on Twitter: @SuzanneMalveaux.
We`re going to be monitoring the hearings, checking back with our correspondents throughout the next two hours.
Also "On the Rundown," Joe Johns looks at the role that Muslim radicalization could play in the presidential election.
And the cleanup from powerful storms that pounded the South.
Also, Lindsay Lohan due in court this hour on charges of stealing a necklace.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MALVEAUX: We`ve got some breaking news here. We are hearing of people who were forcibly removed, potentially some protesters, inside of the Wisconsin State Capitol building.
That is where our Ed Lavandera, he`s live on the scene.
And I understand that you`re getting some information there are protesters who are inside of the building who are now being forcibly removed, escorted out of the building.
What can you tell us?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Suzanne, the scene here in the Madison State Capitol, intensifying this morning. We`ve been unable to get inside. We`ve been told by security officers inside the Capitol building that the entrances are essentially on lockdown. Nobody else is being allowed in, even though we`ve been credentialed to get in. We have some crews inside, and they say that outside the assembly hall where this vote is supposed to take place here shortly, that many protesters, several protesters, have been forcibly removed from the area just outside of the assembly chamber. So, all of that is going on inside.
And the scene out here on the Capitol grounds in Madison, Wisconsin, intensifying as well. We`ll kind of walk through the crowd here, Suzanne.
As you can see, the thousands and thousands of people who have showed up here to protest here today, all of these people had come with the hopes of trying to get inside the Capitol building. But as I mentioned, everything essentially on lockdown. Nobody being allowed inside.
In fact, Jesse Jackson even was trying to get in here a little while ago. They wouldn`t let him in as well.
So, the scene intense. The crowds here have been growing throughout the day. You can see just not -- these are kind of sidewalks that go all the way around the Capitol grounds and --
BASH: And, Ed, as you walk around --
LAVANDERA: -- these crowds continue to show up.
MALVEAUX: As you walk around, can you remind our viewers what this is all about? Why is this taking place?
LAVANDERA: I`m sorry, say that again.
MALVEAUX: If you can remind our viewers what this is all about. Why are people gathering there? We know this is over collective bargaining rights, the vote that just happened. You were in the thick of all of that last night.
LAVANDERA: Yes, right. Last night, around 4:00 Central Time, Republicans had announced that they were going to pass just the collective bargaining and increases in the health insurance premium and pension payment increases. They had stripped away just that portion of the budget repair bill, and they did that in just a matter of hours last night.
And that sent a shock wave throughout many of the protesters who have been here for three weeks protesting the passage of this bill. And they descended on the Capitol here last night, several thousand people doing that throughout the night. It`s about nearly 200 people that refused to leave the Capitol building last night.
So, they are incredibly angry about the way all of that took place last night. And now the bill moves on to the assembly, which was expected to vote on it here shortly, and is expected to pass there. And after that happens, it would be clear for the governor of Wisconsin to sign into law.
So that`s why you`re seeing this intensity of anger here today, especially over the way things transpired here last night -- Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: OK. Ed, give us -- we`ll get back to you if people are arrested, if things turn violent or ugly. Please let us know. Thank you, Ed.
Parts of the Deep South are cleaning up from a line of intense storms that produced tornadoes in several states. Wind damage was reported in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia. And now flooding is a major concern.
(WEATHER REPORT)
MALVEAUX: Well, your mortgage is probably a big chunk of your budget. But what about paying cash for a new home? Well, more and more Americans are doing just that. A closer look at this growing trend.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MALVEAUX: Want to check in with CNNMoney.com`s lead story. Here it is, a possible $50 spending cap for your debit card. It says debit card may soon be denied for purchases greater than $100 or as little as 50 bucks. Really important to pay attention to.
And also, the stock market, if you take a look at it, the Dow Jones down a big, big chunk. They were taking -- it`s about 176 points or so, and that -- can`t help but worry about that.
Our Alison Kosik, she is here, with us from the New York Stock Exchange.
Alison, we take a look at these numbers, why do we think we`re seeing such a big sell-off now? Is this a problem?
ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It is.
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
MALVEAUX: And Alison, we`re hearing about this surprising trend that folks, during these tough economic times, instead of actually financing their homes, they`re paying for their homes with cash.
What is that about?
KOSIK: Yes. This is kind of surprising, actually.
You know, in January, 32 percent of people who were buying homes, they paid all cash. I`m talking about no mortgage, no financing of any kind. And we`re seeing this happening a lot in California and Denver. In fact, in Phoenix and Las Vegas, half of all those home sales there were all-cash sales.
The National Association of Realtors says, you know, when you have cash, when you have that big suitcase full of cash, it winds up being easier to cut a deal when you buy a home, because you can also negotiate a lower price -- Suzanne. MALVEAUX: I`m a little confused, Alison, because given the recession, a lot of folks really hit pretty hard. How can they afford to pay with cash?
KOSIK: Well, because the housing market has been hit hard, we`re seeing home prices are low, and that makes it easier to pay with all cash. You know, people don`t have to save up as much as they normally would.
Also, we`re finding that appraisals are weak these days. And as you know, banks only finance what a home is appraised for, so instead of going out and getting that financing, people are saying, you know what? We`re just going to pay all cash.
Also, cash speeds the deal up. It`s easier to negotiate. And, you know, people don`t want to deal with the mortgage approval process.
There`s a lot of time. You have to put your life out there on paperwork. And also, what is also moving these cash deals, Suzanne, is it`s becoming a big investment choice again. Many buyers are actually investors buying big blocks of home all at once, just plunking down all their cash -- Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: Alison, thank you very much.
Want to go straight to some live pictures we are watching here. This is out of Madison, Wisconsin. It`s a story that we`ve been following, our Ed Lavandera on the ground there.
This is really a standoff at the state Capitol. We have just been notified that one of the people trying to get into the state Capitol, Democratic Representative Cohen, trying to get into the building there. But we understand that there are officials inside that have forcibly removed protesters who are inside the state Capitol building, and it is essentially on lockdown, as they deny anyone to go in and out of that building.
All of this around the controversy over collective bargaining rights. The Republicans essentially voting last night that they would be -- that they would be denied.
Bill Kirkos on the phone for us now, a CNN producer who can kind of lay out what is taking place there.
Bill, can you describe what`s happening?
BILL KIRKOS, CNN PRODUCER: Yes. Hi, Suzanne.
Right now we`re in the assembly chambers where the assembly, at 11:00 a.m. local time, was supposed to take up the revised version of the bill. The media, we`re stuck here, because the media, as of about an hour ago, was locked out of the building. We`ve been told that if we leave, we`re not going to be allowed back in.
What`s going on right now in front of us is that the protesters who spent the night here are being forcibly removed. I`m not sure if they are technically being arrested, but they are being picked up, sometimes Indian-style, sometimes they`re laying down, they`re being dragged out. But the state police have come in and have started removing all of the roughly three dozen protesters who were here banging drums, protesting, singing in unison just outside -- literally, about 10 feet away from where the legislature is about to convene, at least scheduled to at 11:00 a.m.
So right now all these protesters are being forcibly removed. We are stuck here. All the media is stuck here, all the cameras that are here. You can`t leave, otherwise you can`t get back in.
That`s the situation right here, right now.
I spoke to Democratic -- are you there?
MALVEAUX: Yes.
KIRKOS: I spoke to Democratic Minority Leader Peter Barca a short time ago, who had an impromptu meeting in here just in response to what he described as just a chaotic scene. He`s trying to get this in front of a judge right now to reverse this media lockdown right now, so at least get media to come and go freely.
He claims that there are Democratic assemblymen, legislators in the assembly, who have also been denied entry into the building. So, if this is supposed to start on time at 11:00 a.m., the legislators themselves at this point cannot get in.
And they`re kicking all of the protesters out right now. Some of them are being dragged out by their -- by their feet. The cops are doing as good a job as they can to keep it orderly under the direction of Chief Tubbs (ph) here, the Capitol police chief, but they are all being kicked out to try and clear this space. And we are locked in.
MALVEAUX: OK. So, just to be clear, you`re actually -- you`re inside the building, correct, as they are denying people from getting inside?
KIRKOS: Oh, yes.
MALVEAUX: We`re hearing chants from outside the building, "Let us in! Let us in!"
KIRKOS: Yes.
MALVEAUX: Are they arresting protesters or people who are inside the building? Are they putting them in handcuffs? What is taking place as you say, you know, that they forcibly are making them leave?
KIRKOS: We`re not seeing anybody put into handcuffs. What the state police -- and there are so many police departments here that have been handling security for the past three weeks from all over the state. But this is all being handled by the state police.
And when we asked the state police right next to us, as they literally push up against us with the protesters to get them out of here, if people are being arrested, they`re not answering. I don't even think the protestors know if they're technically being arrested until, maybe, they get outside.
I can't see that outside, because again, if we leave, I can't get back in here and I'm here with my photographer Derek (ph). So, they're not being put in cuffs, I'm not sure if they are technically being arrested, but they are forcibly being removed.
Some of these protesters, when they see the cops coming up to them, at the last second to take them, are just volunteering, they're listening to Chief Tubbs who is politely requesting them to leave without force. Some of them are getting up and just leaving on their own. Some of the others are going out literally kicking and screaming. They are not in handcuffs, though and --
MALVEAUX: OK, Bill, I want to if we can, just stop and listen here, because we are looking at what is taking place outside.
CROWD: (CHANTING & SCREAMING)
MALVEAUX: Live pictures there out of Madison, Wisconsin, really a standoff at the state Capitol building there as there are demonstrators and protesters who want to get inside of the building. And as our own producer, Peter Barka told us from inside of the building, there's a lockdown there.
And so there really is a position here where it could become more chaotic. It does not look like it's violent yet, but there certainly does seem to be a lot of frustration on both parts.
I want to bring back Peter, if you can hear me, who is inside of the state Capitol building.
Why is this taking place, Peter? I mean, what are they trying to do? this is a meeting that is supposed to be held here as people try to rush the building and they try to escort people out?
KIRKOS: Hey, Suzanne, yes, it's Bill here. What's going on, is these -- they're removing, they're forcibly removing the protesters who spent the night here and who are right outside. They're in -- when you walk into the assembly chamber where votes are cast and where the sessions are held, you have to walk through this pretty little foyer area. That's where about three dozen protesters were able to spend the night and have been all morning. And it's right next door to where the legislators all sit during session.
So, these people are being kicked out right now. You would think to make probably, I mean, assuming because of the 11:00 a.m. session that's coming up here in the lower House to take up the revised bill that was passed. So, these people are being cleared out, because if they're not, there's going to be -- the police's logic here is that there will be so much activity, noise, chanting going on, that they probably won't be able to conduct session here starting at 11:00 a.m.
It's not even sure if this is going to start at 11:00. I don't see any Republican legislators here in session. I see a few Democrats. But they're trying to basically empty this place out and in theory hold -- convene session here at 11:00 a.m.
MALVEAUX: Thank you, Bill.
Governor Walker is speaking right now. Let's listen in.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: -- in January the private sector helped create more than 10,000 new jobs to help slow the unemployment rate down to 7.4 percent. We believe that's the sign of more things to come in the future, better things to happen as we help improve the economy. Because to help the middle-class, the best thing we can do is to improve the economy.
The other great challenge for us in addition to a tough economy is obviously a tight budget. Like state governments all across the country, we face a deficit here in Wisconsin, it's $3.6 million. And what we proposed in the budget repair bill four weeks ago tomorrow was an effort to not only get under control fiscal year '11 which ends in June this year, but to prepare to get our budget under control for the next two years starting July 1st.
(END COVERAGE)
MALVEAUX: You've been looking at Governor Scott Walker. Now, we are told he is not in the state Capitol right now, he's actually in Milwaukee, addressing a group of reporters there. But obviously he is talking about what has ignited this -- the passion and the debate and the fury that is taking place there in Madison right now. And that really is over the budget and how to bring the deficit under control, and workers' rights, collective bargaining rights.
The Republicans of that state voting just yesterday to remove it from the budget bill and to diminish collective bargaining rights for union employees there. It has caused an outcry and an outrage from a lot of people who are there and we see them. We see what is taking place here outside of the state Capitol as people are clamoring.
There's been some pushing and shoving, but no major violence, but clamoring to get inside of the building, including some representatives, some members of the legislature trying to get in for a critical follow-up, a next meeting, on that very issue.
And our own producer, Bill Kirkos, inside, explaining that there's a lockdown inside, that there are people inside the building who can't get out, cameras, reporters, and demonstrators who are not allowed to leave the building.
So what you're watching here is really a standoff. A lot of frustration. A lot of emotion. And we are going to go ahead and take a look at this. We're going to be monitoring this situation as it continues, as it unfolds.
We're going to take a quick break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MALVEAUX: Want to go to some breaking news. This is taking place. These are live pictures that are outside the state Capitol in Madison, Wisconsin. That is where there is a standoff that is taking place. As you can see, these pictures right now, our CNN photographer capturing the scene outside.
This is where protesters, demonstrators and even members of the legislature are trying to get into the building here. There's been a lot of controversy over collective bargaining rights and Republicans' move to eliminate those for union workers in that state. You can see that they have gathered there to express their anger and frustration with what is taking place.
Inside the Capitol is our own Bill Kirkos, CNN producer, who says that they are stuck inside, that some people were escorted -- forcibly escorted outside. But for the most part now everyone who's inside that building is trapped. Want to go to Bill first.
Bill, what do we -- what is taking place where you are?
KIRKOS: Well, Suzanne, about 20 minutes ago they started, maybe close to half hour ago, they started to forcibly remove the roughly three dozen protesters who had made camp here all night and into this morning just outside the lower house chambers, the assembly chambers where at 11:00, the assembly is going to take up and examine the last night's Senate conference, the changes to the bill that were made in the Senate last night to, in theory, take a vote here to pass this through the assembly. That was scheduled to start at 11:00 a.m.
So, all morning with negotiations going on between police and the protesters to quietly leave, being exhausted, they started forcibly removing all of the protesters from this little area, which is the only way you can get into the assembly, where all of the Democratic and Republican legislators of the lower House are going to meet here at 11:00 a.m. Central Time.
They started -- some by kicking and screaming, kicking -- forcing them to go out, others were just being picked up because they were sitting Indian style. A couple of state troopers would come over, pick them up and force them out.
There were 30 here this morning, I'd say, 35. Right now this has been going on for almost half an hour, they're down to about what I can see in this crowd maybe about eight to ten. And like I said, some are -- when they see the police coming up to them under the direction of the Capitol police chief here, they're leaving on their own. But some are refusing to leave, and they're being taken out forcibly right now. Not in handcuffs but --
MALVEAUX: Not in handcuffs. OK, Bill, hang on for a second, if you would.
I want to bring our Ed Lavandera who is on the phone. He's outside where you see our camera at the door, and you see law enforcement, the state officials who are there at the doors.
Ed, what is taking place? I think you're right there, are you not, right there with the camera?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I am right behind our cameraman here in the crush of people that have been trying to get into one of the entrances and it's gotten very chaotic here, Suzanne, as several hundred people trying to crush in through this one door. They've got several dozen officers here trying to push people back.
But it's gotten incredibly intense. Tempers definitely flaring. It was getting very chaotic, people pushing and shoving, some of the officers had to push back some of the protesters here. So, I think you can hear the chanting and everything that you're hearing on behind us.
MALVEAUX: Are they bringing in more law enforcement officers, or is this at a standstill, what is taking place now?
LAVANDERA: Well, the door has -- the door -- one of the doors had been kind of creeped open and the protesters are sort of grabbing it and pulling it open. So they were trying to shut the door back, shut the door again, and they couldn't do that because so many people were kind of barricading themselves towards the door and barreling forward towards the door.
After a while officers were finally able to close the door and people here have been chanting, "Shame on you, this is our house, open it up," you know, so the anger here is incredibly palpable.
MALVEAUX: Ed, who are these people? And what are they singing?
LAVANDERA: It's hard to make out. Suzanne, we've got to (INAUDIBLE) what they're singing. But they've been going through a series of chants. These are a lot of the protesters who noticed the scuffle kind of going on --
MALVEAUX: Ed, let's take a listen here. I want to hear what they're saying.
CROWD: (SINGING) .
MALVEAUX: Ed, from what I can hear, what I understand, it sounds like they're chanting, "What side are you on," and it looks like several of them are directing that at the law enforcement officials there, who are standing guard. Does that --
LAVANDERA: Yes. There's no question. This assembly vote is supposed to take place in about 15, 20 minutes. In fact, just a little while ago, there were two assembly members, Democrats, who were trying to get inside the Capitol building, and even they were turned away just a little while ago to their great dismay.
That's really one of the things that led to this becoming so intensified as people started realized that even a couple of lawmakers couldn't get inside the Capitol building at this point. They've essentially shut it down completely as you've heard from our colleague Bill Kirkos who's inside.
And things quickly escalated with a handful of people starting to -- pushing and shoving. And every once in a while it gets really intense. We were banged around pretty good for a little while here, Suzanne. This has escalated to its worst point, but they've managed to shut the doors and really tempers are starting to flare and escalate the closer we get to the assembly vote, which is scheduled at 11:00 this morning Central Time.
MALVEAUX: Does it look at all like any of these demonstrators have been trying to forcibly get in to rush those officers that we see?
LAVANDERA: Oh, yes. I was caught in the middle of it and I could hear several of the protesters saying, you know, push forward, let's push our way in, let's push our way in. So they were clearly trying to do that. But there was potentially the officers who've been able to barricade the door, and finally be able to close it down.
There's about three or four of them standing in front of the door right now. I think you can see from that live picture. And there's also several more starting to make their way through the crowd, making sure everything stays peaceful. But it's definitely -- and tempers here escalated quite a bit and it's intensified here as the hour approaches to that vote that's coming up here shortly.
MALVEAUX: Does it look like, from your vantage point, Ed, it may be difficult to tell, but based on the size of the crowd around you, does it look like the law enforcement officials are going to be able to hold these guys back much longer?
LAVANDERA: Well, you know, what is interesting is the handful of people that are kind of getting out of hand and really pushing forward, as soon as something like that happens and some pushing and shoving is going on, there`s a -- the vast majority of the people here in this little area that we`re at who start chanting, "Peaceful, peaceful, peaceful." They know with this many cameras here rolling, any kinds of scenes of police officers getting punched or anything like that does much more kind of public relations harm than the images you are seeing right now.
So it`s interesting to see that as a couple of people really got heated up and intensified and started really pushing their way and grabbing their way into the door, there are also a lot of people who are, you know, telling these folks to settle down.
In fact, one of the guys who was the worst offender had a couple of people come over and essentially just grab him by the back of his jacket and they pulled him out of here to get him out of here so he could go calm down, so.
MALVEAUX: All right. Our Ed Lavandera, outside of the capitol building there, our Bill Kirkos inside. We are obviously monitoring what is taking place there out of Madison, Wisconsin.
A standoff at the state capitol as angry protesters are trying to demand for rights, collective bargaining rights. There are lawmakers who are trying to get in the building. There are people who are trapped outside the building. There are people who are being forced to leave. It is a chaotic situation there at the state capitol. We`re going to be following that as it develops throughout the next couple of hours.
We`re going to take a quick break right now.
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MALVEAUX: We have in-depth coverage of the hearing that is taking place on radical Islam. We`re going to get some analysis from our chief political correspondent, Candy Crowley. Former FBI assistant director Tom Fuentes has insight from the law enforcement perspective.
But I want to show you, just a little bit ago, this was Democratic Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee at the hearing. Here`s what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D), TEXAS: AND I brought with me the Constitution. It`s a living and breathing document. The First Amendment allows us the freedom of religion, the freedom of association and expression. But I will tell you today, that is breathing document is in pain.
We could have had a hearing that spoke about any number of issues of terrorism. We might have gone back to the cold cases of the Civil Rights Movement, acts of terror. We might have tried to understand whether Klansman still roam today and terrorize individuals in parts of this country. Maybe we would have found out what those who are opposed the Jewish faith are doing to Jewish communities and synagogues, no matter what their religion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: I want to bring in our Candy Crowley on this point because the congresswoman is obviously talking about what critics have said, which is this is targeting specifically the Muslim community.
How is this playing out politically here? And does Congressman King, some other Republicans, do they risk, perhaps, alienating Muslim community here as well as some others who share that criticism?
CROWLEY: Well, sure. Sure there`s that risk, I mean -- and -- but Peter King gladly took the risk. He has been -- he`s heard all of this. I mean, these members of the committee are not saying anything that hasn`t been said in the run-up to this committee hearing by a variety of groups and -- both civil rights and Muslim groups. So this is not new.
I mean, what`s happening here is what often happens in hearings, and that is people come as witnesses and then the folks, the questioners, the representatives, make their own points. And that`s what you`re seeing here. I don`t think anyone would argue with the First Amendment of the Constitution.
And so this has, in so far as it has become a political football, you are hearing Democrats, many of them, make the argument that this is an attack on a group of people based on their religion, which is totally anti-American.
And you will hear Republicans led by Peter King saying, listen, you know, the vast majority of Muslim-Americans are good and wonderful citizens, but there are those in the community that are being targeted and we think we need more cooperation by law enforcement.
So, you know, one of things that was interesting to me is that the Republican support that you have heard for King has not been overly out there. He has had support, but this is obviously a sticky subject for Republicans because they know that their party has that harsh-image problem that they have had for some time, that they are not sympathetic to minorities, and they think this might in fact feed into it.
But we should point out that Peter King said that no one in the administration ever asked him, in fact, to not have these hearings.
MALVEAUX: All right, Candy Crowley, thank you.
We will bring in Tom Fuentes at the another point.
Want to move on, the White House is talking about how to stop bullies. I`m going to talk with a mother and an activist whose 11- year-old son committed suicide after relentless bullying. Hear what she thinks should be done to stop it.
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MALVEAUX: Right now, the president and first lady are holding the first ever White House conference on bullying prevention. There are dozens of parents and teachers who are there. And if you watch this Facebook public service announcement, here`s what the first couple said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For a long time, bullying was treated as an unavoidable part of growing up. But more and more, we`re seeing how harmful it can be for our kids, especially when it follows them from the school to their phone to their computer screen.
MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: That`s why we`re holding this summit and that`s why we`re asking you, whether you`re a student or teacher or coach or parent, to join us.
B. OBAMA: You can participate in the conversation online, find more resources and be a part of this growing campaign at stopbullying.gov.
(END VIDEO CLIP) MALVEAUX: Sirdeaner Walker is attending the White House conference, and she became an anti-bullying advocate when her 11-year- old son, Carl, committed suicide after constant bullying two years ago.
Miss Walker, thank you for joining us. I know you`ve been very vocal about what happened with your son. Can you briefly tell us? It`s hard to imagine that an 11-year-old would feel that sense of despair that led to that.
SIRDEANER WALKER, BULLIED SON COMMITTED SUICIDE: I`m sorry. I can`t hear you.
MALVEAUX: Miss Walker, can you hear me?
Miss Walker, can you hear me?
WALKER: Yes, I can.
MALVEAUX: You can hear me now, Miss Walker?
WALKER: I`m sorry.
MALVEAUX: Can you hear me? It`s Suzanne Malveaux, can you hear me?
WALKER: Yes, I can hear you.
MALVEAUX: We thank you for being here with us. I know this is a difficult subject, but one you have talked about publicly about your son, 11-year-old Carl, who was bullied, which led to -- led to his suicide.
Was there anything that the president or the first lady said to you that gave you hope that this is a problem that`s being addressed?
WALKER: Well, I feel very encouraged by the bullying prevention conference today.
I think that everyone is aware now that this is a very important issue that`s facing our children each and every day that they go to school, and that our children deserve to be in a school environment where it`s a safe learning environment.
MALVEAUX: Can you tell us what happened in the case of your son?
WALKER: I`m sorry?
MALVEAUX: Can you tell us what happened in the case of your son, Carl?
WALKER: Yes, my son, Carl, was bullied at his middle school. He was specifically being called anti-gay remarks, even though he wasn`t gay, he was just 11 years old. And I brought that to the school`s attention. And it was ongoing, and I was very active, involved parent. And he ultimately ended his life. It will be two years next month.
MALVEAUX: Our condolences to you, Miss Walker.
Is there -- do you think there`s an appropriate response now? Do you think people understand what is taking place in this country, the extent of the problem?
WALKER: I`m sorry. Could you repeat the question?
MALVEAUX: Sure.
Do you think that there`s an understanding of the extent of the problem now? Do you think people recognize what happened to Carl and other children like Carl? That they acknowledge and understand what is taking place, how serious a problem this is?
WALKER: I think that you know, all schools need to have a collective response. And I think that the federal government, we`ve always looked to the federal government for leadership in voting rights and civil rights and we need to look to the federal government for leadership in the safety of our schools.
And I have been advocating for the passage of the Safe Schools Improvement Act which would include enumerated categories of protection, so that, you know, kids nowadays, that`s what they are calling each other. They are saying, you act gay. We need to stop this. We need to get past as adults any hang-ups that we may have and we need to work towards a solution. We need to name the problem. This is what children are calling each other in school across our country.
MALVEAUX: Miss Walker, we appreciate your time in telling us your story and also your participation at that White House conference.
Thank you, once again, Miss Walker.
WALKER: Thank you very much.
MALVEAUX: Sure.
We`re back with more of the day`s news after this quick break.
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