Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Japan in Crisis; U.S. Energy Policy?

Aired March 15, 2011 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Mr. Velshi, thank you so much.

We are going to take you to Libya. We will take you to Egypt, even Texas over the course of the next two hours.

But,first, it's already Wednesday morning in Japan, where aftershocks continue to rattle buildings and of course nerves as well. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, oh, oh, oh, my God.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That is an iReport from Tuesday in Yokohama, south of Tokyo. That is far from Friday's epicenter. You could hear the fear in his voice.

North of there, in Fukushima, the biggest concern is the threat of that meltdown, maybe even meltdowns at Daiichi nuclear power plant, several reactors there. The amount of radiation exposure spiked when the number two reactor exploded late Tuesday. But we're told levels are back down now. I'm going to have much more on that in just a moment.

Also, as the search for survivors continues on land, look at this image. Do you see what's in the midst of that water? I believe it's a home here. This is a photo. It was captured by the crew on board the USS Ronald Reagan, the aircraft carrier looking for survivors at sea. That is a lone house adrift in the Pacific.

Today, the American Red Cross made an initial pledge of $10 million in aid. But that's just a fraction of what's needed there in Japan. Japan's combined quake/tsunami tragedy is estimated to go down as the most expensive disaster ever, with well more than $100 billion in damage.

But I want to get back to the nuclear crisis that cascaded today across the stricken power plant. Let me try to explain this here. First, I want to take you back to this morning. There was a blast. You see the different reactors, one through four there. So, number two is where a blast was this morning. Remember this it one we actually focused quite a bit of time on yesterday because it had lost its cooling capabilities. So today you have the explosion and now the possible danger here, the damage, this thing they call the containment vessel that is basically what contains the reactor's core. And that is key. Also, later today, a fire broke out at reactor number four. And let's remember reactor number four was actually shut down for maintenance before the tsunami even hit. So now this one has problems. And there are also fears of problems at reactors five, reactor six. And they were also closed for maintenance.

So what's the story there? We will get to the bottom of that. Hold on because we're not through here because the biggest new problem, I haven't even gotten to that yet, may be the one involving spent fuel rods being stored in these cooling pools on site.

They're apparently getting dangerously hot. And that's where I want to begin with Chad Myers.

And, Chad, as we read these sort of different iterations of issues at these different nuclear reactors, these are from what I understand spent rods.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Correct.

BALDWIN: So used rods.

MYERS: Correct.

BALDWIN: Still hot, still radioactive.

MYERS: Yes, cooling down so that they can be put away forever. Now, the French recycle all of their rods. They don't have really very, very much when it comes to bad rods to go take it underground. The Japanese leave their rods -- is my microphone on?

BALDWIN: I don't know. Let's take a look.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Let's check the microphone.

MYERS: There we go.

BALDWIN: There we go.

(CROSSTALK)

MYERS: The --

BALDWIN: Fuel rods.

MYERS: The fuel rods in America are taken away from the site. In Japan, the fuel rods are left at the site.

BALDWIN: On the roof?

MYERS: Well, kind of in a pool inside the containment building. BALDWIN: OK.

MYERS: And the pool is used to keep them underwater, right.

Well, if the water has been leaving because the pumps aren't working, we believe that that's why the number four unit had a fire, because those rods, even though they weren't hot, they were spent, they were old, they were done, they weren't being cooled properly.

I don't think they even worried about number four because they were worried about one through three, exactly. OK? So, one through there, and all of the sudden, one through three were running at the time, four not, five, six not. So here we go. Here's one, two, three. One, the top is blown off. Three, the top blew off. Two right here had an explosion that still seems to be intact, but they're telling us that they're concerned about the containment vessel, which is this hardened steel, concrete reinforced thing. That's our last layer of protection.

BALDWIN: That's what's containing all these uranium-enriched rods, correct? So that's potential bad, bad news.

(CROSSTALK)

MYERS: Yes. We don't want that to happen at all. That would be very bad.

BALDWIN: Yes.

MYERS: Now, I don't believe there's a big crack in it yet because the radiation, when it spiked today during the fire at four because of the rods that were being stored there caught on fire, they put the fire out, but the radiation really did spike. The radiation went back down again.

If the rod -- if this explosion earlier would have really cracked that containment vessel, the radiation would still be high. This would be the end of the beginning or the beginning of the end to that number two.

BALDWIN: Yes. Apparently it was pushed to something like 167 times the average annual dose of radiation. So we have an expert coming up because I want to have that translated for us so that it's more palatable.

MYERS: It was quite high.

BALDWIN: But what about in terms of the radius? They are asking people to shelter in place. And they have extended that I think it's like 30 kilometers, about 18, 19 miles. Is that right?

MYERS: It is, because radiation can go in all directions. Radiation just -- if we get the big one here, then radiation is going to go everywhere.

But it does get blown by the wind just a little bit. And right now the wind is from the north here. Finally we had that change in direction. All day and all night until the overnight hours, now it's just beginning to get morning there, the wind had been blowing onshore, been blowing back toward where the people lived.

And some radiation did go there. Radiation did spike in Tokyo, not bad, 26 times a normal day. A normal day is very low because that's what comes in, in the sunshine. So no real big deal, but they did see the spike there. They did see some radiation come in. Now that radiation will be all blown away and this is all kind of brought in on the sides of moisture particles and dust particles flying around the atmosphere.

If we keep this wind offshore, and that looks like that will be the case for three days, that will reduce the danger of the radiation going back toward the cities and blowing out into the Pacific. People say, wait, Pacific? That's us. We're next. By the time it gets to America, unless this is a major thing, it's very far. The isotopes will reduce themselves to basically nothing. Most of them will.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Too far. Still, they seem to not be able to catch a break. So, so scary.

MYERS: If this goes to Chernobyl, then that's a completely different story.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But we won't take it there yet, not yet.

MYERS: I don't.

BALDWIN:: Chad Myers, thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

MYERS: OK.

BALDWIN: And the other piece of this story here, actually, check out this new video I'm told we're getting in here. It shows a road, look at this, this road cracking wide open during Friday's quake. We're going to have more images; we will that share with you when we come back.

Also, you know, you have seen these images of cars just tossed around, swept away by the force of those waves. You see a car there in the thick of things during the tsunami as it was hitting. Now we're learning about a man who was inside of one of those cars. We will hear his survival story next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Take a look at the wall monitors behind me. I mean, these are just perfect examples of the amazing pieces of video we're getting in from Japan showing the brute force of the earthquake that hit Japan just now over four days ago. And many of the pictures, you've seen them, they're are startling, they're unsettling, and others are just sort of eerie. It's almost like watching the earth open up beneath your feet. Take a look at this video. This is from Chiba.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the other end of the road that I just videoed. You can see the damage. This is the --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Now I want to replay you some video that we showed you yesterday, and this is important. You're going to see why in just a moment. First, I want you to watch this with me.

You see the tsunami wave; it's carrying what looks like an entire building, this entire structure, along with debris and cars. Imagine being caught up in this tremendous rush of water. It happened to one man.

It is from my colleague, his story from Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The images are tough to watch. But as I learned, the stories are even harder to hear.

You see those cars being tossed around like toys? Well, this man, Iobashi (ph), was in one of them. And he lived to tell about it.

(on camera): So you were looking out your windshield and you saw the water coming?

(voice-over): He tried to escape, but it was too late."Over and over I was hit," he said. And then his car flooded. He was slowly drowning, and so he tried to smash the window with his right hand.

Finally, he got the car to open, but the water pinned the door back on his hips and his leg. Mr. Iobashi (ph) doesn't know how he was saved. The next thing he remembered was pulling up in the ambulance to Saka Hospital.

(on camera): Well, as you might imagine, triage is a big deal at a place like this. Here at Saka Hospital, they basically categorize patients into four categories immediately: green, if it was a relatively minor injury; yellow, if it was more serious; red, if it was very serious; and black, if the patient had died. When Mr. Iobashi (ph) came in, he was considered a red.

(voice-over): Critically injured, his life was now in the hands of Dr. Takanori Sasaki (ph).

(on camera): So it's important to point out Dr. Sasaki (ph) has been here since Friday. He never left the hospital since the earthquake occurred and has been taking care of these patients as head of the emergency room.

(voice-over): Day after day, Saka Hospital stayed open with Dr. Sasaki (ph) in charge, taking care of hundreds of patients. In Japan, near drownings and cardiac arrest are the most common serious injuries seen, followed by head and crush injuries.

(on camera): Now, Dr. Sasaki (ph) has been here since Friday. And I want to give you an idea of just how busy the busiest hospital has been after the earthquake and tsunami. Six hundred patients seen here over the last several days. Seventy-nine patients remain, 13 patients have died.

(voice-over): Watching Iobashi (ph) closely, it is clear he is haunted by what happened to him. The tsunami robbed him of just about everything. In fact, you're looking at all he has left. But then, a rare smile, and he tells me, almost in disbelief, "I am still alive."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Wow. What a story. Sanjay, of course, still in Japan alongside Anderson Cooper. They will be going live once again with a special "A.C. 360." They will be live in Japan starting at 10:00 p.m. Eastern. I will be watching. I hope you watch right along with me of course here on CNN.

And also a lot of talk here about international aid. And here's a perfect example of the international relief supplies now arriving in Japan. In fact, this shipment is from China. But dozens of countries are rushing food and aid as fast as working airstrips can accommodate all these different flights. In fact, just today alone, crews working from the aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan delivered some 17 tons of food and drinking water and blankets.

As far as people are concerned here, urban search-and-rescue teams from 15 countries, including the United States, are there working diligently on the ground in Japan. They're combing through these different piles of rubble, pieces of homes, buildings there where homes used to stand.

And a lot of you have also tweeted me and asked, are there dogs? And the answer is yes. Specially working trained dogs are sniffing for any signs of life.

And coming up here on CNN NEWSROOM, with three explosions at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant since Friday, the situation in Japan clearly getting worse. But how close are we now to that worst-case scenario? I will ask a nuclear expert who is coming up here in just a moment.

Also, just last year, President Obama said we need to build more nuclear power plants in the United States in the wake of the Gulf oil disaster. And now we see, you're watching it unfold here, this nuclear crisis in Japan. Will the not in my backyard argument gain momentum? And what is the United States' energy policy right now? We will tackle some of those answers when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: So maybe the biggest question for us here is whether the nuclear crisis unfolding right now in Japan will be throwing a wrench in our plans. Did you know the United States has not built a single nuclear energy plant in more than 30 years?

But President Obama has been hoping to turn that around. And today his energy secretary was asked whether we are still going forward. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVEN CHU, U.S. ENERGY SECRETARY: Any time a terrible natural disaster or even human-caused disaster occurs, you always go back and you look and you improve. And so we still feel that we can -- should go back, look and improve this, but I still feel there's -- it's probably premature to say anything, except we will learn from this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So I can't quite tell if that was a yes or a no. Could you?

Jessica Yellin, national political correspondent, maybe you know. Where does the Obama administration stand on all this? I mean, are they still going ahead with the loan guarantees to build new nuclear plants?

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: On those loan guarantees, yes, those are still standing.

And there is significant pressure, Brooke, from the energy industry to move ahead with these plants. Look, despite Japan, the case is that the U.S. needs more energy sources and that we could build in areas without seismic activity, unlike Japan, and with more modern designs.

There seemed to be growing acceptance of a nuclear future in the U.S. until now. So, given what's happened in Japan, no doubt voters are going to be a little more wary. And you can see why anti-nuclear critics would have new wind in their sails.

BALDWIN: Yes. It makes sense that people are now taking an extra closer look at all of this. But I want to take you back to March. We will listen to the president here unveiling his long- awaited plan for energy, U.S. energy independence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For decades, we have talked about how our dependence on foreign oil threatens our economy. Yet our will to act rises and falls with the price of a barrel of oil.

And what I hope is, is that the policies that we have laid out, from hybrid fleets to offshore drilling, nuclear energy to wind energy, underscores the seriousness with which my administration takes this challenge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So we saw the date. That was March 31.

Talk about timing, Jessica, because we know what happened three weeks later; three weeks later, that oil rig blew up in the Gulf of Mexico. So that obviously put a bit of a kink in the president's plan as he mentioned to expand oil drilling. And now we have this nuclear crisis unfolding in Japan.

That's given folks, as you mentioned, another set of serious doubts, same time, something not terribly unusual, you have all the instability in the Middle East, gas prices going up and up and up. So, Jessica, do we or don't we have an energy policy?

YELLIN: Well, we have a stated policy. In the State of the Union, President Obama called for the U.S. to get 80 percent of our energy from clean energy sources, including nuclear, within 25 years and he's also pushed for investing in alternative energy.

But critics say it's not a consistent plan. And Republicans slam the program saying that the president is driving up or helping to drive up the price of gas in this country because they say he is not supporting enough drilling here in the U.S., drilling for oil.

Here's possible Republican presidential candidate and Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour on that point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. HALEY BARBOUR (R), MISSISSIPPI: This administration's policies have been designed to drive up the cost of energy, in the name of reducing pollution, in the name of making very expensive alternative fuels more economically competitive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YELLIN: So, Brooke, we have heard congressional Republicans say the same thing he just said.

What they're not telling you is that, even leading energy industry officials admit that, given like 20 years' time, U.S. drilling will not amount to more than 1 percent of global energy use. In other words, opening up more drilling here not enough to fix the problem on its own. You need a bigger policy that is compromise.

BALDWIN: All right, Jessica Yellin for me in Washington, Jess, thank you.

And as we continue our conversation, I know you're engaged; you have been following all the developments there at the Fukushima Daiichi plant, explosions, and there are fires, efforts also to prevent a meltdown, 100 hours of drama unfolding at this one power plant. And when I come back, I will walk you through exactly what has happened up to this point. And we will talk possible worst-case scenario.

And I will be speaking to a cancer doctor who specializes in radiation. In fact, she chose this particular field because she survived that atomic bomb the U.S. dropped on Hiroshima back in 1945. Today, she will tell you what the people of Japan are facing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Before we take you to Japan, I want to show you some live pictures. Members of the House are voting right now to make sure the government continues to be funded. Remember that resolution deadline is this Friday.

So they are voting to extend another three weeks to keep the funding going for the U.S. government for this fiscal year 2011. We will keep our eye on the vote and we will bring you the latest from Capitol Hill as soon as we see some final numbers there.

But I want to talk Japan and this nuclear crisis that is unfolding before all of our eyes here. And it's hard to follow to start with and then it changes a bit each and every hour, each and every day. In fact you hear the explosion here, you hear about an explosion there. Here, for example, you have four different reactors that have been watching at the Fukushima Daiichi plant.

Well, Hala Gorani had put this together for us. It's a bit of a timeline. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HALA GORANI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A 9.0 earthquake hits off Japan's coast Friday. The Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is located in one of the hardest-hit areas.

The quake and tsunami knocked out regular and backup cooling systems to reactors one and three. Workers begin injecting seawater and boron into the reactors to prevent a meltdown.

Saturday afternoon, a hydrogen buildup leads to an explosion, blowing the roof off the number one reactor building. Four workers are hurt. Midday Monday, another explosion tears through the reactor number three building. The roof and top walls are destroyed -- 11 people are hurt.

Late Monday, reactor number two loses its cooling capability. Workers begin injecting seawater and boron into that reactor as well. Tuesday morning, an explosion hits the same reactor, number two, possibly damaging its containment vessel.

And later Tuesday, a fire breaks out at reactor number four. It had been shut down for maintenance before the quake. As of Tuesday evening, the government has evacuated more than 200,000 people within a 20-kilometer radius of the plant and warned people 30 kilometers away not to go outdoors.

Hala Gorani, CNN, Atlanta. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: So that's our quick timeline for you.

Now to the expert. Joining me now live from Washington is Robert Alvarez. He's a senior scholar at the Institute for Policy Studies. He's been involved in the nuclear power issue for decades both as a government official and as an analyst.

So, Robert, thank you for coming on because we want to talk through all of these issues here at these different reactors. And I want to begin, though, with something we actually can't see here on this image, and that's the issue with these fuel rods. There are reports that these spent rods, so the used rods, they're heating up in this storage pool within one of the roofs of one of these reactor facilities. When you hear that, how loudly do alarm bells go off and how much does it worsen the situation?

ROBERT ALVAREZ, INSTITUTE FOR POLICY STUDIES: Well, it's something that we have to be very concerned about because the spent fuel has to also be cooled.

It's -- the cooling of the spent fuel is nowhere near as urgent as the reactor, but if something were to happen to cause the spent fuel pool to lose its water, these are pools that are several stories above ground and are not under the containment, the big, thick, heavy reactor containment, that you have with the reactor pressure -- or vessel itself.

So, if something were to happen to compromise the integrity of the pool wall or the structures, support structure, in other words, causing it to crack and leak, then drainage becomes a concern. And once the fuel is partially exposed -- and this could take a while -- the fuel will catch -- basically catch fire.

The zirconium, the metal that clads the fuel, will get so hot, that it will catch fire and will -- then large amounts of radiation will be released into the environment. And, as you see in the photograph where reactor number three is, it looks to me that the pool itself is now exposed to the sky. There's nothing there but the sky.

BALDWIN: So is it reactor number three? Help me. Is that where the spent rods are on that particular roof? Or we don't know?

ALVAREZ: Each reactor has its own spent fuel pool.

BALDWIN: I see.

ALVAREZ: And so reactor number three has a pool that's been -- where the building that was covering it has been virtually destroyed.

BALDWIN: So Robert, when you hear these reports and you talk about making sure that these rods remain cool and that they're covered in water and there are now reports that in order to mitigate I guess future damage, there's reports of taking a helicopter and dumping cold water on some of these spent fuel rods. Does that sound to you at all like they are grasping at straws, looking for a solution here?

ALVAREZ: I think that -- you know, we are operating in terms of our knowledge far away under fragments of information here that are reported primarily by the Japanese nuclear authorities and international Atomic energy agency.

And based on those pieces of information, what I get out of this is that this situation is not under control and that they're taking what I would consider to be desperate measures to get control. And one of those measures would be having to drop water into the pool using helicopters.

BALDWIN: So you do describe that as desperate measures.

ALVAREZ: Absolutely.

BALDWIN: And then you have, sir, reactor number two. We've highlighted this because this is also the other huge concern because there are reports that the containment vessel within it that surrounds the reactor is damaged. What are you hearing? And how bad is it if that containment dome goes?

ALVAREZ: Well, there are two barriers that are designed to prevent the escape of the radioactivity in the core. There's the primary reactor vessel, which is a large steel container that is the piece of equipment that's of grave concern right now. And then over that is a concrete dome, a secondary containment, that's supposed to serve as an extra barrier of protection.

What we don't really know or completely understand is, in reactor two, what has been going on here and if there have been explosions and other events that have compromised the primary containment or have cracked or created problems for the secondary containment. So we're still sort of operating in a situation where I'm not sure we have a complete picture.

BALDWIN: Right. To your point, we're piecing some of these bits of information we're getting together.

ALVAREZ: Well, not only that. The people on the site don't necessarily have a complete picture of what's going on.

BALDWIN: You know what, and I'm glad you brought that up because I know it's a group of some 50 or so workers. Robert Alvarez, we're going to continue this conversation in the next hour because I have so many more questions for you, including there are 50 or so workers likely risking their own lives here to mitigate danger for those on the ground. Robert Alvarez, we'll see you again prosecute the end of my show.

Just in here, we are showing you live pictures of the House floor. We have now learned the U.S. House has just passed that continuing resolution to avoid a government shutdown. This is only for another three weeks. It now has to go on to the Senate. So you have to keep that in mind. BALDWIN: Coming up, though she was just a baby when the atomic bomb fell on Hiroshima, and a couple of years later her close friend, schoolmate, died from the radiation exposure. So what did she do? She went on to become a radiation specialist, an oncologist. Dr. Ritsuko Komaki knows what the people of Japan are up against. She was there right with them when the quake happened last Friday. I'll be speaking with her, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The nuclear crisis in Japan is not only a today-only emergency. Experts are seriously worried about the lasting effects. Places like Chernobyl, Nagasaki, people in all of those places dealing with diseases, deformity, and death, all because of their exposure to radiation.

That's the expertise of my guest, Dr. Ritsuko Komaki researches radiation oncology at the University of Texas. Dr. Komaki, help me understand, describe the effects, potential effects, extended radiation exposure could have on one's body.

DR. RITSUKO KOMAKI, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS MD, ANDERSON CANCER CENTER: Well, the first thing we have to be concerned is about acute effect. Like my grandmother was in the city when atomic bomb was dropped in Hiroshima, and she had acute effect, such as diarrhea, nose-bleeding due to bone marrow suppression, and the toxicity. However, she was recovered. She was taken away from Hiroshima city immediately, and then by the time she came back several month after, she recovered and she lived to like 72 years old.

However, the residue, the long-term effect is the serious problem. Like one of my friends, Hidake (ph) Sosaki (ph), she was exposed when she was two years old and she developed leukemia when she was 10.

BALDWIN: And she was a child. I would think a concern would also be on children because even lower doses of radiation could have detrimental effects on kids.

KOMAKI: That's correct, because they are still growing, and those cells which are dividing are more sensitive to radiation. And they do get leukemia or sometimes thyroid cancer, and they are more susceptible to radiation.

BALDWIN: I know that radiation oncology is very personal for you. As you just mentioned you grew up in Hiroshima. You lost your father to cancer. You mentioned your grandmother. I want to ask you after the break, remembering the days and weeks and years after the bomb and how today's possible radiation contamination would be all too familiar for people today in Japan. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back to my guest, Dr. Komaki with the radiation oncology department at the University of Texas cancer center. We mentioned you grew up in Hiroshima. How old were you when the atomic bomb dropped?

KOMAKI: I was two years old.

BALDWIN: Given what you remember then and given what's happening today here at these multiple nuclear reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi plant, what can people who live nearby expect?

KOMAKI: Well, I expect because of the cesium leakage, the half- life is 30 years. That means if anybody who will drink the water or maybe contaminate the vegetables, if they eat them, and also from Chernobyl, the cesium was on the grass which was eaten by the cows, and by drinking the milk from the cows, the children or babies, they developed thyroid cancer.

That's why I am very concerned about the babies and the children who are growing up in the area. They have to be maybe evacuated from far away.

BALDWIN: Who are still as you said developing. I also just wanted to ask a little bit more on a personal note. You know, my very best girlfriend is from Japan, she was actually born in Sendai. She was texting with me this morning. She shared a phrase with me today. She says it's a phrase the prime minister is using with people there. It's "ray (ph) say (ph)." What does that mean in Japanese and how might that be resonating with those in that area?

KOMAKI: It means "calm down." It means just do not get upset, just calm down. That's what it means. But, you know, at this time --

BALDWIN: Do you think that's something people can do right now?

KOMAKI: Yes. They kept saying when I was in Japan, when the earthquake hit, I was a doctor in Japan, and the officers and those people kept telling all the citizens, you know, calm down, and just don't get upset. But I think they have to move something very quickly. Otherwise -- my concern is the real, the hydrogen, it might explode almost like atomic bomb.

BALDWIN: It's so serious. We're all watching. Dr. Komaki, I appreciate it.

As the world turning its attention to Japan, still Libya, the Libyan government taking back control of the eastern part of Libya town by town. There are more reports of air strikes. We'll have a live report, getting the latest there, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Moammar Gadhafi forces rolling back the opposition across Libya. They're grabbing control of key cities, more cities now. As they move eastward toward the rebel stronghold of Benghazi. In Ajdabiya, the last major city leading to the opposition's base, the fight is getting intense and the rebels are now looking for some help. Here is Arwa Damon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ARWA DAMON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The opposition forces are struggling now to keep pro-Gadhafi troops from pushing into the city of Ajdabiya. We have seen rounds landing inside the city's outer perimeter. We have seen the opposition firing back, using surface-to-air artillery. We've seen an incoming barrage of mortar fire.

There are also reports of air strikes happening overnight and in the morning. We saw one aircraft overhead. It did not fire, not while we were here. Not entirely sure if it was trying to gauge the opposition's positions.

This is proving to be a much tougher battle than anyone had anticipated. This city, key territory. Should the pro-Gadhafi elements be able to push in here, the concern is that this could potentially turn into a bloodbath.

We've just seen a creeping barrage of incoming artillery fire forcing the opposition to withdraw further into the heart of the city of Ajdabiya. This is going to be a key and decisive battle if Gadhafi's troops continue to be able to push forward in this way.

When it is going to end, how long the opposition can hold on at this point is not at all clear. All of the fighters only have one question at this point, and that is, where is the no-fly zone? They're asking that of the United States. They are asking that of the United Nations.

The concern is that as these pro-Gadhafi elements gain even more ground, if Colonel Gadhafi should somehow hold onto power, he's not a man known to have mercy on those who oppose him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: And now I want to bring in Arwa Damon live in eastern Libya. And Arwa, as you talk about the potential bloodbath, if the Gadhafi forces, if they push past Ajdabiya, if they potentially take the rebel stronghold of Benghazi, I mean, that would be a significant blow to this opposition movement, would it not?

DAMON: Brooke, it would be absolutely devastating. That is, of course, everyone's concern.

A few interesting developments to update you on. We just came out of a press conference that was carried out by the military spokesman for the opposition. He was saying that after that heavy bombardment by pro-Gadhafi elements in the city of Ajdabiya, a small unit of pro-Gadhafi troops did manage to breach the city from the western part. They are saying that they were, however, driven out by opposition forces who now maintain control of the city itself.

According to the opposition, Gadhafi's troops remain on the outskirts. It also appears the opposition, according to them, they have deployed a number of air assets. They are saying they used air assets to bombard Gadhafi troops moving forward. They are saying they deployed naval assets to attack three oil tankers that Gadhafi they are saying was used to go strike at opposition strongholds, saying that they managed to sink two of the oil tankers that Gadhafi had actually converted into warships. The third they claim was rendered inoperable.

They are also saying they managed to capture an oil tanker registered to Gadhafi's son Hannibal that is said to be carrying 25,000 tons of fuel. They are highlighting the fact though that the capability do remain minimal, and they are stressing the need for that no-fly zone, still calling on the international community, the United States to step up. Brooke.

BALDWIN: Well, Arwa, there's still no word on the no-fly zone, and as you know, as you've been reporting, some of the members of the opposition movement. They are young. Some of them are running out of ammunition. How do they maintain momentum going forward here?

DAMON: You know, Brooke, you go up to the front lines and you see them cheering and you see them victorious. You see these air bombardments coming in, the heavy artillery coming in. You see them moving back very rapidly, very chaotic. And yet they do say that they have high morale.

The critical thing here is as they do state, this is a fight to the death because at the end of the day they say they don't have a choice. They cannot afford to be captured by Gadhafi's forces who they do believe would massacre all of them, and so they will fight this out as long as they need to.

But there is a lot of frustration with the speed that this is taking. On Friday, for example, we were down at Friday prayers where we saw a passionate plea to the heavens for help, many holding up signs and thanking for France for its support of the recognition of the newly formed national council that is heading up the opposition government on an interim basis, wondering when they would be able to thank the United States.

And they are really looking for that international backing because they do realize that they have taken this fight to a certain level. They are concerned about how far they can take it past this point, if in fact they have reached the maximum of their own capabilities.

BALDWIN: Well, those are powerful words, Arwa, that these people feel that they have no other choice. Arwa Damon, live in Libya. Arwa, thank you.

And now listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like -- literally like a bomb has gone off around here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That is an American who captured the tsunami and its immediate aftermath there on camera. The image he says still haunts him. That is coming up.

Also, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has just met with the foreign minister of Egypt in Cairo. Wolf Blitzer traveling right along with her. He's left Paris and is now in Cairo. He'll join me live next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You know Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is on a mission right now to promote democracy. And with those waves of change rolling from Egypt and Libya and Tunisia, it is a crucial, crucial challenge, and our own Wolf Blitzer is traveling right along with her.

Wolf, obviously I want to ask you about what the secretary, who she is meeting with today in Cairo, but I'm also curious, your personal impressions. Were you driving through Egypt, Tahrir Square. What were your impressions today?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": It's fascinating to see what's going on in Egypt, because it's still a work in progress, and the final outcome, as you know, Brooke, is not a done deal. Everyone is hoping that the democratic movement succeeds, but there are still a lot of roadblocks on the way.

And even within the past hour I've been here in Cairo. We heard gunshots. There were some disturbances going on not very far from where we were involving Coptic Christian protesters, and the authorities came in to remove them. There are some serious tensions going on between Egyptian Christians, the Copts, and other Egyptians.

And so there are plenty of problems. And the secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, is here. She's meeting with the new Egyptian leadership, the post-Mubarak leadership. And there's a lot of work that has to be done to make sure that what started here only a few weeks ago really results in free and fair elections in the coming months and a new Egypt, if you will. It's still very much, Brooke, a work in progress.

Driving around the city it's jammed, cars all over the place, people all over the place. But we were stopped a couple of times by the Egyptian military. They didn't like the fact that our photographer was taking pictures. At one point they were ready to start confiscating cameras and stuff like that.

So there are still problems, to be sure. We resolved it all fine. Everything worked out OK in the end, but it's still by no means, you know, as smooth as it should be, let's put it that way.

BALDWIN: So still issues with foreign journalists there. And then also we know you're not finished in Egypt. You're going next to Tunisia when we talked about Tunisia three or so months ago when the movement there. The secretary is meeting with new leadership there, but she's also meeting with some bloggers, members of the social media. Why is that important for her? BLITZER: Because so much of this unrest, so much of this movement that started three months ago in Tunisia resulted from the social media sites, the social network sites, the Facebook, the Twitter, and especially in Tunisia. It really got going.

And she wants to meet with them. She wants to make sure that the next generation, people in their 20s, their 30s, that they are all -- that they understand that the United States is a partner with these countries, with this movement for democracy, and the United States is going to be there to help in any ways the U.S. can.

Now will say this, Brooke, hovering over all of this, the positive developments here in Egypt, the positive developments in Tunisia, there's still a huge nightmare scenario for the U.S. and a lot of other countries unfolding in Libya right now. You were just talking about it with Arwa Damon.

And in Bahrain for that matter, too. It's a real sensitive moment and the secretary of state is not happy that Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates have actually sent ground forces into Bahrain to help the besieged king there in the face of the disturbances, the protest movement there.

So, this is still a -- still a lot of issues going on over here. Forget about all the -- the long-time-simmering issues in the Middle East involving Iran, the Israelis, the Palestinians, Lebanon, Syria. You can go on and on and on.

There have been some slight improvements, but, as you know, there's a long, long way to go before this region is peaceful and democratic and productive and prosperous and entering the new age, if you will.

BALDWIN: What a special opportunity for you to be able to travel along with the secretary of state and experience it firsthand. Your expertise and your passion, we appreciate it.

Wolf Blitzer, we will see you live from Egypt on "THE SITUATION ROOM" in an hour. My thanks to you. Stay safe.