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New Phase in Libya Campaign; President Obama in Chile

Aired March 21, 2011 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Earlier today, a top U.S. commander said the multinational campaign that launched Saturday is generally achieving its goal, which is not, the general insists, removing Moammar Gadhafi. But Gadhafi may have wondered when cruise missiles blew up a building in his personal compound in Tripoli, which we were just talking about. The building supposedly housed a command and control center, and Libyan officials say no one was hurt in that strike.

At this point, the U.S. is aiming to take a smaller role in what's being called Operation Odyssey Dawn. The coalition has nine other members, and NATO may take the lead, though that is a delicate issue and far from resolved.

In the meantime, Libyan fighters have not gone away. We've heard from Misrata, east of Tripoli, that Gadhafi's tanks and snipers have unleashed "absolute destruction and carnage." A witness says they are shooting people in the main street.

An exclusive CNN poll finds broad American support for the allied mission. More than 80 percent say protecting Libyans from their long- time dictator should be a somewhat or very important goal of the United States, but 70 percent do not favor sending in ground troops.

I want to turn now to CNN's Nic Robertson, who is in the Libyan capital and who saw the bombed-out compound for himself.

Nic, tell us about that and tell us what you're hearing there at this hour.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's been relatively quiet throughout the day here. In fact, different from yesterday. We haven't heard any of the sort of heavy anti- aircraft gun barrages going off. We haven't heard any missiles falling.

The compound that we were taken to is several square miles, a palace compound used by Moammar Gadhafi. It has multiple layers of security to get in.

One of those layers, you go through the barrack carriers where the soldiers who guard the property live. And then you sort of get into the middle of the compound area, which is a large open field area.

And we were taken to one building there that had been hit by two missiles. It appeared as if they had gone through the roof. One of them, we were told, had exploded only when it got to the base of the building, a four-story building, heavy concrete, strong rebar construction.

The center of the building, damaged. What was interesting, the rooms are sort of on either side of the central part that was damaged, which was probably an area of perhaps 20, 25 yards long where the roof had come down. Those rooms, relatively untouched. Debris strewn around them, but by no means destroyed like the center of the building. That's where Libyan officials took us to just a couple of hours after we saw smoke rising up and heard explosions in that very same compound -- Randi.

KAYE: And did Gadhafi, do you think, expect that it would come to this? I mean, does the government there appear the least bit intimidated by what's happened in the last couple of days?

ROBERTSON: Well, they would say no. They would point to all their supporters. And we've seen perhaps maybe several hundred to a thousand come out around that palace compound. They would point to that and say no.

But when you listen to what they actually tell you -- and there was a government spokesman at the site of that missile strike last night. He said the Pentagon briefer had said that there would be no strikes in this compound area. That was his point. That was one of the reasons they brought us there, to say, look, there have been strikes.

Obviously, now we know more about the situation, we've heard more from the Pentagon. But that was their point then.

But the other thing that he said that was very telling is, this is just done to intimidate and scare the people here. So I think that gives you an idea that the government believes that, really, these are scare tactics, and it must be having some sort of effect, because we haven't seen Moammar Gadhafi on television since the strikes began -- Randi.

KAYE: And any idea where he is?

ROBERTSON: No idea whatsoever. He's certainly not making himself known. You know, in the sort of run-up to this situation, we've seen him coming on state television many, many times, driving even in a golf cart one day around a sort of conference complex. He has gone underground. It appears that he really wants to keep his location a secret -- Randi.

KAYE: All right. Nic, stand by. Stay with us for just a few moments.

As we mentioned, we're waiting for President Obama to speak.

We want to bring in our Wolf Blitzer, who's joining us from Washington.

Wolf, what do you expect we will hear from the president today? And what do we need to hear?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'll be surprised if the president repeats bluntly what he said so many times over the past couple of weeks, that Gadhafi must go. Even though that's the U.S. long-term goal, for Gadhafi to go, the U.N. Security Council resolution, Resolution 1973, stops way short of that. It calls for the protection of civilians, it calls for a no-fly zone. It doesn't call for regime change. And so they're very sensitive about their public statements, making it clear that this is the immediate goal, is to protect Libyan civilians and to get this no-fly zone place.

I don't think he's going to want to talk about what he said before; namely, that Gadhafi, in the end, has to go, even though I do know that is the long-term U.S. objective. It is regime change. They don't think there can be a peaceful, stable Libya as long as Gadhafi remains in power. The question is, how do you get rid of him?

One of the things that Nic was talking about, these air strikes, including in Gadhafi's compound in Tripoli, I suspect -- and it's more than just suspicion -- that one of the objectives was not simply to go after a command and control facility -- it did have some command and control capabilities there -- but also to rattle Gadhafi, to rattle his sons, and, more importantly, though, to rattle the senior military leadership around Gadhafi, to try to wean them away, to convince them it's over, throw down your guns, move away, save yourselves, because the U.S., the British, the French, the other coalition partners are coming. And that's one of the clear objectives in all of this, to scare these senior Iraqi military officers, some of the other tribal leaders who have supported Gadhafi, and convince them that the cavalry is on the way and they're going to lose from their own narrow perspective.

They better see the handwriting on the wall now, as opposed to waiting -- they'll either be arrested and sent to some sort of war crimes tribunal, or they'll be killed in the process, and to save themselves, put down your guns. So I think that's one of the U.S./coalition objectives.

KAYE: So what happens here though, Wolf, if at the very end of this, after the president has said that Gadhafi must step down, he must go, after the air attacks, and after the attacks on the ground troops there, even? What will happen if Gadhafi is still in power at the end of all of this? How will this be viewed?

BLITZER: It will be seen as a huge setback not only for the opposition, for the rebels, first and foremost, in Libya, but it will be seen as a setback for the U.S., for Britain, France. Remember, the Obama administration, they were much more reluctant warriors than the French were, President Sarkozy, the British were, the prime minister, David Cameron.

They were taking the lead in calling for this U.S. Security Council resolution authorizing the creation of a no-fly zone. They worked hard to get it.

The Obama administration was reluctant, especially the Pentagon brass and the defense secretary, Robert Gates. They explained how difficult it would be, how complicated it would be. But in the face of what was seen as a potential slaughter of a lot of Iraqi civilians in Benghazi, the second largest city in Libya, a city of about 800,000 people, in the face of what they feared would be a slaughter of a lot of these people, the U.S. reluctantly, the Obama administration reluctantly, jumped on board and decided, yes, it's a good idea.

So now we've seen what's happened over the past three days, 120- plus Tomahawk cruise missiles flown in, a lot of destruction of the air defense capabilities of Libya, of their air force of Libya, and it's continuing. So we'll se what happens next. But if Gadhafi, when all is said and done, Randi, if he stays in power, it will be not only a huge embarrassment, but it will be seen as a setback.

KAYE: I just want to bring our viewers up to date as we're waiting here for President Obama to make remarks on the situation in Libya from Chile.

Wolf, what about the fact that there was no formal speech by the president to announce these air attacks? What do you make of that?

BLITZER: He did make a sort of informal statement when he was in Brazil. You know, a lot of the critics in Congress, some Democrats, some Republicans, are saying this is a war and he needed to invoke the war powers resolution, he needed to do more consultation.

He did invite on Friday, before leaving for Brazil, he invited the leaders of the House and Senate, the respective chairs of the Armed Services Committee, the Intelligence Committees, Foreign Relations Committees, Democrats and Republicans, to the White House Situation Room. Those members who weren't in Washington, they were put into a secure conference, and they could get a briefing from the president and the secretary of Defense, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, about this operation. So the White House will argue there has been constant communication with the congressional leadership.

The National Security Council senior staff has been calling John Boehner, the Speaker of the House, briefing them, briefing other leaders. So they'll argue there has been this briefing, but a lot of the critics on the Hill, even those who support this operation, are saying there wasn't enough consultation. There certainly was no formal vote in the House and Senate authorizing it, as there was before the former president, George W. Bush, went ahead with the war in Iraq. It was almost exactly, I should say, eight years ago to the day the war in Iraq started, 2003, and this war, effectively, started in Libya. One off the ironies, that the wars started in Iraq and Libya on exactly the same day, eight years apart.

KAYE: And what about the handoff? The United States has said that it will be in charge of this mission for days, not weeks. How do you see the handoff breaking down? Who will take over?

BLITZER: It's now changing, Randi. It's not going to be days anymore, it's not going to be later this week. It's going to be weeks, because the U.S. has those unique capabilities to lead in a mission like this. And everything I'm hearing, it's not going to be quick -- it's not going to be as quick as the president would have liked. It's probably not going to happen. It's going to take a lot longer to let either some British general or French admiral or someone like that formally take charge. But I think it's fair to say, given the fact that the United States has the capabilities to lead in this kind of an operation, even if technically someone else is seen as the leadership, it will still be largely a U.S.-led operation.

Think of those 128 Tomahawk cruise missiles that began the operation, let's say. Of those, all but two were U.S. Maybe two were British -- 126 were U.S., two were British, so those are the rough numbers. It gives you an appreciation of who is really taking the lead in this kind of an operation.

Now, let's be precise. British warplanes, French warplanes, they are involved. But U.S. F-15s and F-16s, Harrier Jump Jets, Marine Corps-piloted, they're much more involved in this operation. It's a significant international coalition, but when all is said and done, it's a U.S.-led coalition.

KAYE: All right. Wolf Blitzer, stay right there. We want to continue this conversation.

We are waiting for President Obama to speak from Chile, so we are going to take a quick break.

But in the meantime, we want to know what you think about the U.S. involvement in Libya. Send us your thoughts. Here's how to reach us: at Twitter, Facebook, and our blog. There it is. We'll read some of your comments in just a few minutes, so stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Welcome back. Glad you're staying with us.

We are waiting for President Obama to make some remarks in Chile. He is expected to address the air strikes on Libya. That should happen any moment.

But in the meantime, we want to continue our conversation with Wolf Blitzer, who is in Washington, and Nic Robertson, who is in Libya, in the capital city of Tripoli.

Wolf, what are your thoughts in terms of the military communication? Because there was a briefing today by the Pentagon that said that the military, the U.S. military coalition forces, haven't been communicating with rebel forces on the ground there. So how do you think they know who they're dealing with?

BLITZER: It's called clandestine or covert operations. They're very precise. They say no boots on the ground, meaning no U.S. formal military American boots on the ground. But you've got to believe there are American civilians on the ground, and they're talking to these opposition forces in Benghazi, the second largest city in Libya. That's where the opposition is headquartered. Whether they're CIA or other intelligence operatives, whether they're contractors, whether they're private diplomats, private American intermediaries, if you will, I'm sure there's close coordination, there's close communication. People are talking. People are -- American citizens who are close to the U.S. government are very well aware of what these opposition forces are up to in Benghazi. So even if there aren't formal U.S. military troops on the ground helping the opposition, there is a dialogue, there is an ability to communicate with these opposition leaders.

KAYE: And Nic, if you can, tell us how the rebel forces and the opposition forces are feeling these days about this no-fly zone and about American involvement.

ROBERTSON: Well, they've been waiting and wanting the no-fly zone, and now it's arrived, and that's making them feel safer, or slightly safer, in Benghazi, at least. They're still concerned about elements that they believe are still in the city, perhaps in villages that are still loyal to Gadhafi. So there's sort of a fear of sort of a force behind them, or certainly a counterinsurgency that could be launched against them. So there are concerns about that.

And they certainly recognize that if there were international boots on the ground, then that could count very much against them, not only in a broader Arab opinion around the region, but also with Libyans. That this could be used by Moammar Gadhafi to say, look, this is an international force that the opposition has invited in, and he'll try to rally more people in the country to his side. Because although the military fight here is perhaps slowing down, the dimensions of the sort of political fallout and political steps next are very big and very complex.

And even if some fighting does continue, the sort of resolution as the Security Council resolution called for, the resolution in political terms, is still a long, long way off. So international boots on the ground would be counterproductive for the opposition there -- Randi.

KAYE: And Wolf, do you believe that the United States has a very clear mission in Libya, as you see it?

BLITZER: Well, the U.N. Security Council mission is very clear, to protect the civilians, to enforce a no-fly zone. I will say this, as far as communications with the rebels are concerned, remember about a week or so ago the president announced that there would be a U.S. diplomat assigned to deal with the opposition in Benghazi. And when Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was in Paris last week, she did meet formally with a representative of the opposition. I was in Paris covering that trip with her.

There's also no doubt, for example, that the French government has formally recognized the Libyan opposition as the legitimate government of Libya. So there's a much stronger dialogue going on there. So there's no shortage of people who are aware of what's going on. They're getting ready, by the way, for their opening statements, Randi. So I suspect the president -- the two leaders will be coming out fairly soon.

KAYE: Yes, I think we'll hear from them in less than a minute.

So how do you see this ending, Wolf? And if we get interrupted here by the president, we'll come back to you right after he speaks.

BLITZER: Yes. We'll probably have the opening statements from the Chilean leader, and then the president of the United States, and then they'll open it up to a few questions.

I think it's still very much up in the air, how this is all going to end. Obviously, the United States, the British, the French, the other coalition partners -- and they're still hoping that there will actually be some real contribution from some of the Arab League countries. Qatar, for example, is indicating -- there they are right there, so I suppose we should listen in, Randi. Don't you think?

KAYE: All right. Let's do that, Wolf. And we'll talk on the other side of these remarks.