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Japan's Nuclear Crisis; U.S. Troops Pose With Dead Bodies; Anti-Aircraft Fire In Tripoli; U.S. & Coalition Hammer Libya
Aired March 21, 2011 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And Gloria is right. You had people like Vice President Biden and other top officials who I'm told by senior aides to the president who had concerns about this mission in Libya earlier on in the internal debate, but those concerns were alleviated, if you will, for Vice President Biden and others once they heard the Arab league, other allies were on board.
That's why where there was so much heartburn, I can tell you, here in Latin-America yesterday, when administration officials started getting these reports that the Arab league had gone into session, and they were concerned that the air strikes violated the U.N. mandate, went much further than what they had wanted and that maybe their endorsement was somehow in peril.
I can tell you that behind the scenes, they didn't talk a lot about this, but behind the scenes, senior administration officials were phoning people in the Arab league, trying to clarify all this and say, look, this was within the U.N. mandate which not only said institute a no fly-zone, but use all means necessary to protect the civilians, the U.S., and its allies. Clearly believe the air strikes fall within that.
And then, the president has well eluded to called the king of Jordan himself yesterday to try to alleviate concerns. Vice President Biden was on the phone yesterday, calling leaders in Kuwait and Algeria. This is a full court press by this administration because Gloria is exactly right. That support of the Arab league is critical.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: It was a game changer.
HENRY: Absolutely.
BALDWIN: Ed Henry for me in Santiago, Chile. Absolutely. We're not going to go far from Libya. I promise you, as well (ph).
Also, we'll tell you what's going on with that nuclear plant right now in Japan. Top of the hour here. Take a look at this.
BALDWIN: Libyan leader, Moammar Gadhafi, promises a long war, but really, what's the end game for the United States?
I'm Brooke Baldwin. The news is now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN (voice-over): 2:25 p.m. Friday afternoon.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are not going to use force to go beyond a well defined goal.
BALDWIN: Twenty-four hours later, the U.S. and its allies begin to strike Libya. More than a 100 missiles target government tanks, air defense sites, even part of Moammar Gadhafi's compound.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We certainly have to look on a weapon of a missile.
BALDWIN: Now, what happens next? And where exactly is Moammar Gadhafi?
Also, in addition to Libya, blood spills in Yemen, Syria and Bahrain. A closer look at this historic moment sweeping a region in turmoil.
Plus, new trouble in Japan's escalating nuclear crisis. Workers evacuated after smoke rises from two reactors, but without the workers, what's next for the plant.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN (on-camera): All right. Here we go. Hour two here on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Brooke Baldwin. I want to take you right back to Libya, and about an hour ago, we heard several loud explosions followed by rounds of anti-aircraft fire over the capital city of Tripoli. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN (voice-over): There were two, maybe three explosions in the same area as Moammar Gadhafi's palace compound. Keep in mind, that is the same compound that was hit last night. This is the aftermath. One building inside the compound was heavily damaged in last night's strike, but despite an attack on Gadhafi's compound, the man heading U.S. operations in Libya insists the goal here is not to get Gadhafi. Here he was.
GEN. CARTER HAM, COMMANDER, U.S. AFRICA COMMAND: I don't know much about the location of the Libyan leader nor have we expended any military effort, in that regard. We have expended considerable effort to degrade the Libyan regime's military command and control capability. And I think we've had some fairly significant effect, in that regard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN (voice-over): General Carter Ham also says he sees Gadhafi's military forces moving away from Benghazi, the rebel strong-hold in Eastern Libya, and that's where we find CNNs Arwa Damon. And Arwa, I can imagine many of these opposition members you've been speaking with for days and days now are elated that there's some sort of international military intervention here. Have you seen any evidence of a retreat by Gadhafi's forces where you are? ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brooke. We moved certainly have, if we just go back to what happened over the weekend on Saturday. Gadhafi's forces were not at the gates of Benghazi. They were in Benghazi, having marched an attack on the southern portion of the city. At least 95 people were killed on that according to hospital administration officials. Eyewitnesses telling us how tanks were firing indiscriminately into apartment blocks, how Gadhafi's troops were firing automatic machine guns, laughing the entire time.
Now, on Saturday, the opposition did manage to push Gadhafi's military out of Benghazi, but they were under no illusion that (INAUDIBLE) to be able to push back that sort of a sustained attack. On Sunday morning, finally, the opposition says they saw the actions, the damage that foreign fighter jets could cause, when at least eight, according to an eyewitness, missiles came down on Gadhafi's military that was masked some 30 miles outside of Benghazi.
We counted at least 70 damaged vehicles. The debris strewn around for miles, really, and everyone there saying thank you to the international community. Some say that this international aid, these air strikes have come a bit too late. They would have wanted to see it soother, but they're very happy that they're taking place right now quite simply because they do firmly believe that if this air strikes had not happened, they would have all been killed -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: That's the situation, the elation there, perhaps, more where you are, Arwa, in Benghazi, but talk to me a little bit more here about Western Libya. You have Tripoli, not too terribly far, about 100, 120 miles away of Misurata. We've heard from -- Arwa, this is on the ground in Misurata saying there is still unbelievable violence on the ground there.
DAMON: That's right, and the violence that is going on in other parts of the country have been brought up by the opposition here in Benghazi. They say that it's not enough for them to have Benghazi be relatively calm right now. This is not about the city of Benghazi. This is about all of Libya. There is heavy fighting being thwarted in Misurata, in Zentan, in Zawiya. All of these more further to the west.
(INAUDIBLE) telling a horrific story saying that Gadhafi's troops are massacring them. The challenge, of course, when it comes to this coalition in terms of trying to stop that kind of violence is that Gadhafi's troops are actually inside the cities and that makes launching an air strike against them very difficult if not actually impossible. And so, people hear the opposition does realize that this war for Libya is far from being over, and they are asking for some sort of intervention to try to bring about an end to the attacks that are happening in other parts of the country -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: Arwa Damon live for us in the rebel strong hold of Benghazi. Arwa, my thanks to you.
And you know, there seems to be some worry here as to what we're getting into with regard to Libya. I'm going to talk about that here in just a second, but as it turns out, they're actually asking the same questions we are over in Britain. I want to play you some sound. This is from Prime Minister David Cameron answering some questions today in parliament.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What would be a successful outcome to this military action? And is it possible that it could take a number of years for us to get out of Libya now?
DAVID CAMERON, BRITAIN PRIME MINISTER: A successful outcome is the enforcement of the will of the U.N. which is a cease of attacks on civilians. That is what we our aimed in doing, but let me be absolutely frank about this. It is a more difficult question in many ways than the question with Iraq, because in Iraq, we had been prepared to go into a country, to knock over its government, and to put something else in place.
That is not the approach we're taking here. We are saying, there's a U.N. Security Council resolution to stop violence against civilians, to put in a U.N. fly-zone, and then, the Libyan people must choose their own future, but the point I would make, they have far more chance of choosing their own future today than they did 24 or 48 hours ago.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Last year, the UK issued 231 million pounds worth bombs that, quote, "licenses to Libya," 55 million pounds of licenses to (INAUDIBLE) including the 30 personnel carriers who are rolling into Bahrain just last week. Would you must agree that our position would be a lot more consistent and a lot more principle if, indeed, we stop selling arms to oppressive regimes anywhere in that region?
CAMERON: That's an important point which we discussed in statements and questions a number of times. We are having a proper review, not just of arms exports, but also training licenses and other relations as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So, some of the same questions being asked today in our nation's capital in Washington, D.C. And as we know, the president is out of the country. He's in Chile. We've seen him, but the questions are being asked, nonetheless. Senior congressional correspondent, Dana Bash, is there on Capitol Hill. Dana, I understand the questions here. They're coming from both sides, from the president's party as well.
DANA BASH, SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's true. We finally found some semblance of bipartisan sentiment here in Congress, and that is unease with what is going on in Libya. You've heard from Democrats who didn't want a no-fly zone, in the first place, who didn't want military action, and also, I think that regardless the president should come to Congress before doing anything.
And even some Republicans who did or didn't want a no-fly zone, they're saying that the president simply is not defining the mission in a way that the American people and Congress can understand. Listen to an example of that from a Democrat and a Republican.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. STEVE LYNCH, (D) MASSACHUSETTS: There's a civil war, no doubt. We don't know that much about the rebels, but for the United States to commit its sons and daughters in military action, especially while we have two wars going on already, normally would require some direct and imminent threat against the United States, and that's just not in evidence right now.
SEN. RICHARD LUGAR, (R) FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Who are the Libyan protesters, aside from civilians that the dictator, ruled dictator is trying to kill? And who do we deal with then, and for how long? Is this, once again, a counter insurgency situation? Is it a nation building affair? None of that's been defined.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: And so, there you heard from both sides of the aisle about concern about the fact that this mission is not defined -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: Dana, isn't part of the issue here that Congress didn't get properly consulted on this ahead of time? Is that, at all, what you're hearing they're on the hill?
BASH: That is definitely part of what I'm hearing. In fact, I talked to two Republican congressmen. Congress is not in session right now. They spoke to me from their districts by phone, and both said that they believe that the president should come up here. You played that very interesting clip from the parliament in England.
Obviously, we have a very different system, but I want to read to you what the chairwoman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee said to me, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen. She said, "I would hope that our leadership on both sides of the aisle would ask President Obama to convene a joint session of Congress as soon as possible so that he could better define the mission and clearly articulate U.S. security interest and our operations in Libya."
And I spoke to another congresswoman who said, you know, the president shouldn't wait. He should come home from South America. He should be here, and he should come to Congress right away. I want to just -- to be fair, just before we came on, the White House did send this letter, this two-page letter, Brooke, to Congress which the president in here says that he hopes, explains from his perspective what the U.S. is doing right now in the mission.
He says that this is part of his efforts to keep the Congress fully informed consistent with the war power's resolution. And also to be fair, there was a meeting on Friday, in the situation room at the White House. Many members of Congress, because they were already gone, had to participate by phone. There was some concern that I've heard from some members of Congress that it really wasn't enough of a consultation, it was more of an information session.
And that people who are by phone really couldn't hear very well. So, you're definitely hearing from both sides of the aisle that they want more information from the president, and the White House says, we're doing their best.
BALDWIN: Well, let's stay on this. Dana Bash, thanks to you. I'm going to stay in Washington today on Capitol Hill, and I want to bring in Representative Eleanor Holmes Norton. She's a congressional delegate from the District of Columbia.
Congresswoman Norton, I understand -- and one of the reasons we're talking to you here is I know you were on that conference call Saturday, among concerned members of the president's own party. Can you give me a little bit of color with regard to that phone call? What were people saying?
DEL. ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, (D) DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: Most of the concern was that the president hadn't consulted with Congress and hadn't indicated anything about the world powers act or any indication that he was going to consult. I had those questions, but I must tell you, even as I had been waiting, listening to you on the air, a whole host of questions arise.
I mean, you have raised the specter of different aims here between the United States and the U.N. resolution. Now, we got to ask ourselves, is it Gadhafi must go? Or we're there to protect civilians? Are we involved in a no-fly zone? Or is it an all out attack on Libya?
BALDWIN: So, if I may --
NORTON: And for me-- for me, the question is, is this a civil war or is this an Egyptian-type revolution? Because these are a bunch of tribes, and you could end up unsettling another yet another Middle East country if you leave warring tribes in place because you find out it's a civil war.
BALDWIN: So, perhaps, what I'm hearing from you is there are, not only frustrations over how members of Congress were approached or not approached, it's also questions about the mission. Let me ask you this, have you -- have other members of Congress received any assurances, perhaps, from the White House that the U.S. involvement in Libya will be limited? Do we know, the president was saying days, will it be weeks? Do you have an answer to that?
NORTON: In the beginning, we were told that -- first of all, we were told that there were Arabs. Where is Qatar? The last I heard, even Qatar hadn't shown up. That nullified some people. Then, we were told we would be in there for days. Now, it looks like, CNN is saying, that the president is saying we may differ from the U.N., because we want Gadhafi to go. Well, that's not what the U.N. said.
It said we want to protect civilians. What about the rebels? We're not coordinating with the rebels. Are we going to leave them surrounded and at the mercy of Gadhafi? I've never seen anything so confused in my life.
BALDWIN: Wow. Well, Congresswoman Norton, I hear your questions, and I'm glad you think we're asking some of the right questions. Let me just in (ph) on this, do you have any kind of way to communicate your questions and concerns with the administration?
NORTON: As you know, we are out this week because the majority decided we should go home for a week. Therefore, Congress is really in the limbo. This heated up, interestingly, only when we were out. Yet, the administration awaited two weeks and assured us that nothing was going to happen. That we would not go in. And then, all of a sudden, Congress goes home, and we're in, and instantly in.
So, I think in that phone call, I can tell you, there's some real anger and concern that something has happened. We didn't know anything about it. We didn't have anyway to find out anything about. I'm pleased that our own leaders in the Democratic caucus, at least, had a conference call so that we could know what they knew.
We found out, for example, I asked specifically, what do we know about intelligence so we can find out whose side are we on? And I was told, we don't have much intelligence from Libya. The questions simply abound.
BALDWIN: Well, I appreciate you sharing your questions here for us live on CNN. Representative Eleanor Holmes Norton out of D.C, thank you.
In a matter of 24 hours here, The U.S. and its allies go from a no fly zone to a coordinated assault. Some Arab leaders say it went too far. The question we're asking is, do they have a case?
Also, how do you avoid hitting civilians? We'll break down this specific type of warfare being used and what's next for the military strategy. I'll stick with the man who has most definitely made some of these decisions in the past, knows exactly what goes on behind the scenes, Ret. Gen. Wesley Clark joins me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: The general in charge of U.S. forces in Africa says units loyal to Libya leader, Moammar Gadhafi, have little will and have little capability to take back rebel-held areas. That is after weekend of American and coalition air strikes missiles launches including the direct hit on Gadhafi's complex in the capital city of Triopli.
I want to bring in Ret. Gen. Wesley Clark live with me now from Little Rock, Arkansas. And Gen. Clark, were you, at all, listening to my conversation with Congresswoman Norton in D.C.? I mean, she brought up a whole host of questions and concerns over how, you know, Congress was told about the mission -- to the mission, itself? Did she have merit in her questions?
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. These are important questions. There are three circles that have to be tied together right here as this policy is unfolding. And this is not -- this is not unusual. These things happen in fast moving operations. First of all, the U.S., itself, has to figure out the difference between what the president says is the objective, and what the U.N. Security Council resolution says. And if we have a further reaching objective, then, how do we get there, and who authorizes it. And then, secondly, we got to bring the American people and the institutions of government together on that. And then, third, with our allies, we have to be together. So, press reports today, say, for example, Turkey and a NATO ally is not approving the use of NATO as a command in control agency, perhaps, because Turkey has a lot of guest workers in Libya, and they're very concerned about the safety of their people in Libya if NATO authorizes this near part of that decision.
BALDWIN: Let me just back up for a moment and just talk here scenarios and approaches to what's happening in Libya. You have the president, and you reiterated this as he was speaking in Chile as part of his question and answer saying, it is U.S. policy specifically that Gadhafi must go. That he must give up power, but then you have General Ham, American four-star general today saying, you know, he -- not necessarily an ideal situation, but he could see Gadhafi staying in office. So, how we may understand -- what is the end game? What's the most likely scenario here?
CLARK: Well, this has to be defined and worked out. The practical way forward is to use the leverage of international legal authority to do an investigation of Gadhafi's crimes in Libya, bring him up on charges, and then, declare him an indicted war criminal. At that point, he can't legitimately, even by international law in anyway, be in charge in Libya. He can be arrested, brought to the Hague for trial.
And that's the easiest way forward, but if we don't use that, then we could also call for democratic elections. But something has to be done in the near term about what's going on in Misurata, where his intelligence agencies are currently running wild, arresting people and so forth.
BALDWIN: Right.
CLARK: That's the tricky part of this, and then, the United States doesn't want to be in a position where it's policy is more far reaching than the legal authorities underpinning that policy that have been received from the U.N. Security Council, because we wouldn't have any effective way of implementing our policy in accordance with international law. So, it's a little tricky. The administration, I'm sure, right now is scrambling to pull all of this together. It can be put together. It just has to be, and we're watching it in real-time unfold.
BALDWIN: We are watching it. Actually, you were in the double box (ph). These are live pictures there in Tripoli, and if we can show Nic Robertson. I know Nic Robertson is there in Tripoli. We've been seeing some tracer fire, some anti-aircraft fire there over the capital city. And Nic Robertson, if you're there, can you just tell me what you're seeing, what you're hearing?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brooke, about three or four minutes ago, we heard what it turned like a couple of distant heavy explosions, and then reacting to those explosions, we heard a lot of anti-aircraft gunfire, a lot of crater fire. There's more going up in the sky right now. I'll just be quiet for a moment.
So, what you're looking at there is the anti-aircraft gun firing. (INAUDIBLE). There were several strikes just about two hours ago. We heard a couple of explosions. (INAUDIBLE). Now, they're putting up tracer rounds. So, it light up over there, way over there, and then, it took them a while to change it (ph).
BALDWIN: Nic Robertson, I think we were having a tough time hearing you over some of the anti-aircraft fire there. Guys, let's keep this live picture up. And, General Clark, I want to bring you in. If you can just give me a little bit -- I know you don't know specifically what's going on. You can't give me a play-by-play per say, but what is the priority here in terms of these air strikes. Are they taking out, you know, command in control forces, taking out communication, radar, tanks? What happened?
CLARK: Well, sometimes, it turns out that when you strike a target, you hit what you shot at, but it didn't turn off the radar or shut down the communications or they alternate. They activate an alternate antenna. So, maybe, we're coming back tonight to clean some of these targets up that are still on the air in some way. The anti-aircraft fire is basically desperation fire.
The aircraft that released these bombs are far above the range of this artillery to reach into the air. If they're trying to shoot at missiles or bombs, it's very unlikely that you can hit a falling bomb and do anything to it or a cruise missile coming in very, very low and very fast. So, a lot of this is just uncoordinated morale-boosting fire.
BALDWIN: Yes. I know this is highly, highly technical in trying to determine how they do hit their target. I have more questions for you, General Clark, and more questions for Nic Robertson in Libya. Got to get a break in. We're going to continue this conversation in two minutes. Stay here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Back here live. We've been watching some of the tracer fire over the night skies over Tripoli in Libya. And as we've been talking with our senior international correspondent, there on the ground who is seeing and hearing all of this, Nic Robertson. We also have Ret. Gen. Wesley Clark. They're sort of walking us through what could be happening.
And I think it's important to point out here that they can't specifically, per this U.N. Security Council Resolution 1973, they cannot target Gadhafi. This is all about making sure and protecting that the civilians within Libya, and so, what they can do is target some of these -- some of the radar, the communications equipment, military tanks, et cetera, but they cannot go after Gadhafi, specifically.
CLARK: That's correct under the reading of the U.N. Security Council Resolution, but as been said, if he's in a command center, then he could be hit. And there's nothing to keep the targeting from going all the way to the top on the command centers, to break up the integrated air defense system. Typically, there are regional air defense headquarters that coordinate radar locations and air missiles, and they're tied together in the national headquarters somewhere, and it's tied into the national command authority.
All those are legal targets. And, by the way, I should say this, that the U.S. warriors, who are experts in this, will be looking at every target to make sure it's in line with exactly what's authorized by the wording of the U.N. Security Council Resolution.
BALDWIN: And I know it has to be in line with Resolution 1973, and I know you saw yesterday one of his command centers, Gadhafi's command centers was hit. I'm curious if that could be a way of rattling him a little bit?
CLARK: He should be rattled. He's up against the most powerful military - (AUDIO GAP)
BALDWIN: Oh, we lost him. Let me bring in Nic Robertson who is there, hearing and seeing the tracer air fire over Tripoli. And Nic, just talk to me about the last 24 hours there in the Libyan capital. How much have you seen and heard in terms of air strikes?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: As I walk back to the beginning of those 24 hours, there were strikes, almost exactly 24 hours ago on the compound, the big palace compound of Moammar Gadhafi. We were taken to see that building, that collapsed structure there. We arrived there, sort of fought our way through busy traffic around the palace compound because a lot of people are showing their support from Moammar Gadhafi. We went in, we went through security, went to the building, were there for about 15 minutes filming the building this had been damaged. Two holes punched in the roof, a heavy concrete building.
Then another five minutes in Gadhafi's (INAUDIBLE), and we were out of there, in fact by sort of bundled on the bus, pushed on there by government officials to drive us out of that area. So, we were quickly taken, quickly gone from there.
Then it's been quiet through the day, almost normal traffic in the suburbs of the city. Stores open, people going about their daily business. Then 8:00 p.m. this evening, several loud explosions followed by heavy anti-aircraft gunfire. Government officials say the port area in Tripoli was hit, also in Homa (ph), which is about 75 miles eastward down the coast from here.
There is in the port facility here in Tripoli naval vessels. Those naval vessels appear to carry some radar capability. It's not clear if they were the targets or if they hit. Government officials say civilians were hit, but until now, they haven't shown us any proof of civilian casualties at all. All we're seeing on state television are wounded soldiers. Then again, just about 10 minutes ago, a couple heavy explosions, then the trace fire eliminating the sky again. The last 24 hours here in Tripoli, there's been three rounds of missile attacks in this city here, and as well as we now know from officials down the coast at another facility, where they say an oil storage tank is burning as well. Brooke?
BALDWIN: You haven't seen any evidence of civilian deaths, but I'm curious, I know it's a U.S. concern. These reports of human chains, they're called protectors. These men, women, some cases children brought in on behalf of Gadhafi's side as human chains. Have you seen any evidence of that?
ROBERTSON: Certainly, it's on state television here. When we were in Moammar Gadhafi's compound last night and the night before, there were about a thousand people the night before, perhaps, 100, 150 people gathered around what is now a museum there. It's one of his old palace buildings hit by U.S. bombs in 1986. He gave a speech from there recently. It's the building that has this clenched fists we've seen, the golden fist, 12-foot high crushing what appears to be a replica, an imitation U.S. fighter aircraft.
So, there were people gathered around there. And on state television, it's written "protectors." The gates of the compounds are open. We're seeing people and families coming and going at will. We're told these are volunteers. Clearly they're loyalists to the government, you just have to talk to them and listen to the way they sink and chant about Gadhafi.
But the way they're able to walk about at will gives the very clear impression that they're not being kept in there, and they're not being told when they have to come and when they to come and when they have to go. It seems to be apart from the security getting in and out, freedom of movement.
And they were -- just before the strikes this evening, with those pictures again on state television, so, the government's not hiding what it's doing here. It's sort of playing this, if you will, game out in the open, of using people to protect the buildings. But as we have seen, strikes in the compound, it's 150 yards from where those people were yesterday. But no casualties, no injuries. The strikes were clearly targeted very specifically at that one building. And the debris field was perhaps 100 yards, quite some distance from where these people were.
BALDWIN: Nic Robertson, please to you and your crew, stay safe and stand by. If there are any breaking developments there out of Tripoli, please, we'll get you back in front of a camera and get that live here on CNN. My thanks to you, Nic.
Alos, my thanks to retired General Wesley Clark. By the way, he wrote an op-ed for "USA Today." So, you can read about his key three questions at CNN.com/opinion.
And we are in the middle, obviously, of this major, major moment in history, and people are also rising up against their governments in Syria, Yemen and also Bahrain. But do these countries risk becoming hotspots for terror? Michael Holmes joins me next. He's going "Globetrekking."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BALDWIN: We here at CNN can't help but look beyond Libya's civil war. You have other uprisings where tension is brewing in several Arab states across the Middle East.
Michael Holmes is here from CNN International. I know we're going to talk Syria, Yemen and Bahrain. Let's begin with Yemen. We know several generals broke rank today?
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's a lot going on outside of Libya, we're going to talk about. It's interesting, they did break ranks, they went to the opposition movement. Three of those generals interestingly in Saleh's tribe. Now, that's significant.
BALDWIN: That's the president?
HOLMES: That's the president. Yes, being there for 32 years.
What we've been seeing is a steady sort of drip-drip of supporters deserting him. Pillars, if you like, falling one by one. Let's remember, this is the poorest country in the region. The government was weak before all of this. They've got a rebellion in the north, a secession is moving in the south, and al Qaeda kind of all over. They've been an ally with the U.S. in the battle against al Qaeda.
Also, 22 officials, including several ambassadors also deserting the president today. Very significant.
BALDWIN: And then there's Bahrain?
HOLMES: yes.
BALDWIN: What's happening? That's been weeks and weeks.
HOLMES: There's a couple ironies when you're talking about Bahrain here. You've got the United Arab Emirates and Qatar, members of the Gulf Cooperation Council, part of the coalition who are now acting against Gadhafi in Libya. Now, this is --the GCC, the same organization that just sent troops to Bahrain to help the government crush pro-democracy protests by the Shia majority. It's interesting, supporting pro-democracy folks in Libya, helping to crush folks them in Bahrain. A lot of people talking about the, let's call it irony of that.
The other one is the West's big fear in Bahrain is Shia's taking power because they're in the majority democratically. And then Bahrain being susceptible to Iranian influence. But you know, the crackdown by the ruling monarchy is likely to further radicalize the country's Shias, which makes the prospect of Iranian meddling even more likely. So, it's such a fluid situation. So much can happen.
BALDWIN: So that's Yemen and Bahrain, which we have been talking about for some time. But there's a new country now added to the mix, and that's Syria today.
HOLMES: Yes. Now, Syria, this is extraordinary just to see protests in Syria. There's been a growing protest there. Started off in one place, we're now seeing other cities having protests, too. And we're seeing people being fired on.
You're talking about a very hard, very tough regime. Government forces using live ammunition, tear gas against the people. First significant challenge, really, to President Assad in his 11-year rule, a position, of course, he inherited from his dad who ran the country with the proverbial iron fist.
Syria, unlike other countries in the region, perhaps more similar to the Saudis in terms of their willingness to crush the dissent. Now to factor in Syria, let's call them Iran's neighborhood BFF as well, so that's going to come into the mix when others on the outside look at what's happening in Syria.
And there's also voices out there saying, look, Bahrain, Yemen, Syria, they're shooting their own people, protesters. Where's the no fly zone there? That's some of the voices in the region coming up and talking about that, too.
BALDWIN: Is that realistic, though, that question?
HOLMES: Of course not, it's not going to happen.
BALDWIN: No.
HOLMES: You talk about Yemen and al Qaeda, an ally with the U.S. in the fight against al Qaeda. With Bahrain, you're talking about a place where the Fifth Fleet is based. So, no. The U.S., it's another one of these arguments where you get people talking about hypocrisy and U.S. foreign policy. Let's get rid of the guy in Libya, but oooh, we don't want to see Bahrain get overthrown, because we have the Navy there. This is the sort of talk that comes out of the region. And people need to know that it is being discussed.
BALDWIN: And you and I were talking during the commercial break. We keep talking and talking and talking about what's happening in the Middle East, and you and I were talking about my conversation with General Clark about targeting -- back to Libya -- talking about how per this resolution, 1973, they cannot specifically target Gadhafi, It's all about protecting the civilians.
But you had a good question, and I want to bring in General Clark. Ask your question.
HOLMES: Yes. It's good to see you, General. I was talking to you about this time yesterday, I think. It is interesting. In my reading of the resolution, if it's deemed that Colonel Gadhafi was directly ordering attacks on civilians, would protecting the civilians not preclude him being taken out in some sort of circumstances?
CLARK: Well, I think that if he gets caught up in the command and control, yes. But not specifically targeted, that's not the intent of the resolution.
I don't think a lawyer from the Pentagon could look at this and say, it's OK to specifically by name, find Gadhafi and target him. I don't think that's the intent of the resolution, I don't think it could be read that way.
Now, the fact is, it's about excessive violence against civilians, that's been the complaint. And it's about the scale of the violence. Which is different in Libya, than it is in Yemen or Bahrain or so far in Syria. And that scale is the distinguishing factor.
HOLMES: And it's interesting too, there's something else we've been talking about, and I think it's worth raising again too, is when it comes to Libya and the no fly zone, what happens if the rebels decide they're going to make a move now? That it's strategically a good time to march on some of the cities they've lost back to Colonel Gadhafi? Does a cease-fire in your view apply to them?
CLARK: Absolutely.
HOLMES: And what if they made the move? Could they be open to being attacked?
CLARK: Well, I think -- yes. I don't know that we would attack them; I think there would be a lot of conversations behind the scene to stop them. But also, I don't know that they've really got the means of making that kind of a move.
Now, if they do a peaceful protest and they come up to Gadhafi's forces, and they're very peaceful and it's not an attack, of course, then they're not affected by the no-fly zone so we wouldn't target them. But once, if they made an armed attack and Gadhafi had said he was obeying the cease-fire and he was obeying the cease-fire, and it was only the rebel side that broke it, then we'd be in a very difficult position given where the sympathies are in the coalition.
HOLMES: Great point.
BALDWIN: General Clark, I'm so glad we were able to bring you back. And we have more questions, but we will keep them to ourselves and hopefully we can get you back on tomorrow and continue this conversation. General Clark, I really appreciate it.
Mr. Holmes, good to have you back.
HOLMES: Good to see you too.
BALDWIN: Thank you very much.
Developing right now, here's smoke shooting out of the crippled nuclear power plant, Fukushima Daichii nuclear power plant in Japan, forcing workers to evacuate. Have you seen this picture? So, who is monitoring the plant right now? And what does this new grayish black smoke signify in terms of a possible meltdown? That's next.
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BALDWIN: All right. Let's talk about the nuclear crisis still playing out in Japan. And obviously, this is serious, serious business.
Joining me now live from Washington, we have Jeffrey Merrifield, former member of the NRC, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, who we've been talking a little bit about lately.
And Jeffrey, we've been talking about the situation, specifically -- there it is. This is reactor number 3 at the Fukushima Daiichi plant.
There's the smoke, sort of grayish/black smoke billowing from that plant today. And it seemed to come from the same exact corner where those spent fuel rods are stored in those storage pools. So my question to you, sir, is does that in itself cause you to worry?
JEFFREY MERRIFIELD, FMR. U.S. NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSIONER: Well, Brooke, I think one of the things that happened yesterday was there was a large amount of water that was put into that spent fuel pool. So there is more waterborne material that could be the potential source of steam. We really don't know.
What we do know is right now, it's about quarter to 6:00 or 10 minutes to 6:00 in Japan. Light is going to be coming up. We'll get a little clearer view of what's happened.
The pictures that you have are dated from a number of hours ago. The workers were pulled back because of the uncertainty of what that smoke was. One thing which is noteworthy, the radiation levels in that area have not been elevated as a result of that release, so that's good news.
BALDWIN: And here's the water. You mentioned the water from some of those fire trucks on the ground. They've been trying from helicopters from above.
They keep shooting water specifically into number 3. I know Greg Jaczko has been talking a lot about number 3.
Can you surmise where, specifically, that water is going? I mean, might there be a chance that the storage pool could have cracked maybe from the earthquake -- we don't know -- and that there could be water leaking out? And, if so, what's the danger there?
MERRIFIELD: You know, it's really -- there's a lot of speculation built into that series of events. Really, what they're trying to do to the extent possible is to get as much water into that pool to make sure that the spent fuel rods are covered. That's going to provide appropriate shielding so that the workers can continue their activities to re-establish emergency power.
Now, they have laid the line, as you probably heard, to unit 2. They are in the process of trying to re-establish some of the cooling capabilities as a result of that. And the plan is to continue working their way through units one, 3 and 4 to try to re-establish power at those units as well.
So, hopefully it's simply the smoke is really steam and it's not a significant issue. But really hard to say at this point. BALDWIN: Nothing more ominous than that, we're all hoping.
Jeffrey Merrifield, former member of NRC.
Thank you so much.
And we will be right back.
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BALDWIN: All right. Developing right now here, CNN is just now getting some new information on the case involving several American soldiers accused of killing Afghan civilians and keeping their body parts as souvenirs.
Now we have pictures. You will see them next.
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BALDWIN: The U.S. Army is reacting to some damaging photos being released by a German magazine showing U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan posing with bodies. CNN has done extensive reporting on what the Army has characterized as a rogue platoon of U.S. soldiers accused of murdering innocent Afghan civilians, smoking hash, taking war trophies from victims, and posing with these enemy bodies. But this is the first such time such photos from the platoon have been published.
CNN investigative reporter Drew Griffin is here with the latest.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Troubling, Brooke. A lot of it being compared to what's happened at Abu Ghraib back in Iraq.
"Der Spiegel" is the German magazine that got hold of -- now published these photos. They are part of the case against this band of rogue soldiers all facing court-martial out of Fort Lewis, Washington.
The pictures show U.S. soldiers identified by the magazine as Specialist Jeremy Morlock and Private First Class Andrew Holmes, both posing with a dead Afghan. Holmes and Morlock, currently facing charges related to the wrongful death of Afghan civilians. In a third picture, two apparently dead Afghans are tied back to back.
The U.S. Army does require pictures of bodies to be used for identification in battle investigations, but doesn't condone anything like posing or what some would call trophy photos. The Army today embarrassed by this, releasing a statement saying, "We apologize for the distress these photos caused. The actions portrayed in the photographs remain under investigation" and "part of an ongoing U.S. court-martial proceedings." And "The photos appear in stark contrast to the discipline, professionalism and respect that have characterized our soldiers' performance during nearly 10 years of sustained operations."
That's from the Army. Now, last summer, we did begin extensive reporting on this rogue platoon, speaking specifically with Jeremy Morlock's former defense attorney, Mike Waddington, who at the time was trying to explain why his then-client Jeremy Morlock was being accused of killing innocent Afghan civilians.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: So your defense is that your client was mentally incapacitated, that the Army either knew it or should have known it?
MICHAEL WADDINGTON, MORLOCK'S ATTORNEY: The Army knew that he had been blown up in two IED attacks. The Army then chose rather than to treat him, to take his weapon, give it back to him, for whatever reason, and then load him up on drugs.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): The drugs, show here, distributed in plastic baggies, included Ambien and Amitriptyline, both of which carry FDA warnings about producing suicidal thoughts. The trouble began, Morlock says, in November of 2009, when the Stryker Brigade got a new squad leader, Staff Sergeant Calvin Gibbs.
WADDINGTON: When Gibbs showed up at this unit, he bragged to the young soldiers underneath, including my client, him about killing innocent people in Iraq.
GRIFFIN: Staff Sergeant Gibbs is charged in all three killings, and witnesses stated it was this new commander who orchestrated, coerced and threatened the Stryker Brigade to both kill Afghan civilians and cover up their murders. And there is something else. The U.S. Army accuses Staff Sergeant Gibbs of collecting teeth, leg bones and fingers as souvenirs.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: Jeremy Morlock faces court-martial proceedings this Wednesday. The other soldiers shown in the photographs also facing court-martial.
Now, the attorney for Private First Class Andrew Holmes told us this afternoon, his client was a 19-year-old kid ordered to be in the photos, so he got in the photo. The attorney says it does not make him a murderer.
We have yet to be able to reach Jeremy Morlock's current attorney. And Brooke, we also talked about Sergeant Gibbs in that piece. Sergeant Gibbs has pleaded not guilty. His court-martial is set for April. His attorney refuses to call us back.
BALDWIN: So that's set for April. What happens this week?
GRIFFIN: This week will be Jeremy Morlock, who is charged with killing innocent -- I mean, it was staged killings, what the allegation is. It's really repugnant to read.
In fact, the Army used the word "repugnant" in the photos released today. They've been trying to keep this under wraps for a long time. It's been difficult to report on, but now you're seeing the information being leaked out.
BALDWIN: I remember when you were first reporting last September.
Drew Griffin, stay on it. We'll follow it up with you.
And my thanks to you for watching.
Let's go to Wolf Blitzer now in Washington -- Wolf.
