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U.S. Jet Crashes in Libya; Holding the Coalition Together

Aired March 22, 2011 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

Obama Faces Questions About Mission Goal in Libya. Arab Role in Libya Unclear. Yemeni General Sides With Protesters. Protests Spread in Syria. 6.6 Earthquake Strikes Off Coast of Honshu, Japan. Smoke Rising From Two Fukushima Reactors. US Military Considering Mandatory Evacuation of Troops and Families in Japan. Trace Levels of Radiation in Seattle. Death Toll In Japan Passes 9,000. American Teacher Found Dead in Japan. Stock Market Rallying

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: It was the quickest rescue mission ever, wasn't it? We begin with that developing story out of Libya. This is the crash site of that U.S. fighter jet and we are happy to report that both crew members are safe. They are in U.S. hands. -- story out of Libya. This is the crash site of that U.S. fighter jet and we are happy to report that both crew members are safe. They are in U.S. hands.

We're covering the angles from all the points on the map. Nic Robertson is in Libya's capital. Chris Lawrence is working his sources at the Pentagon and retired Navy Captain Alec Fraser is here at the CNN center.

So let's start with our Pentagon correspondent, Chris Lawrence.

Chris, what is the Pentagon saying about this?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, they are saying, bottom line, Carol, is that both of these crew members are now off Libyan soil and safely back in U.S. hands, but the story of how they got there is just -- is just fascinating.

This crew took off from a base in Italy overnight and they were on a strike mission. In other words, they weren't necessarily just patrolling. This was a fighter jet specifically designed to go after some of Moammar Gadhafi's air defense systems.

Overnight at some point, the military says the plane got into some mechanical problems and both of the crew members ejected. Their chutes worked just fine but they landed in different places. The pilot was picked up by an osprey. That was sitting off the coast about a hundred miles on the USS Kearsarge.

The Marines, the 26 Marine E Expeditionary Unit is on standby on the Kearsarge any time they're flying these sorties and that unity immediately took off and picked up the pilot. The weapons officer landed in an area and was recovered by the rebels. And I was told by a senior defense official that the rebels treated the crew member very well and then there was a process by which the U.S. military was able to recover that crew member.

The bottom line, both now off Libyan soil, minor injuries but that is to be expected when you eject from an airplane.

COSTELLO: It's just amazing how fast this went down.

Chris Lawrence, many thanks to you, live from the Pentagon.

We want to head to Tripoli now and Nic Robertson.

And Nic, we hear rebels initially rescued this American crew. Do we know more?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We don't have specific details on how they managed to rescue them. But we have heard from Libyan state television, clearly, the aircraft came down in rebel-held territory in the east but it hasn't stopped the Libyan state broadcaster here claiming, claiming that the aircraft was shot down by Libyan government anti-aircraft guns.

And they're also saying that this aircraft was a phantom fighter. Clearly they're getting their facts all muddled up and wrong because phantoms haven't been used for decades. So this rather seems to be an empty claim by the government here, but they are trying to make some political capital out of it, some propaganda capital out of it -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Nic Robertson reporting live from Tripoli.

Want to check in with Alec Fraser now.

Alec, you're a former Navy captain. You heard Nic just a moment ago saying that pro-Gadhafi forces are taking credit for this. But how can the military prove that they're absolutely wrong?

ALEC FRASER, FORMER NAVY CAPTAIN: Well, let's go back at the beginning here. When an airman or, you know, a pilot goes down behind enemy lines or in the areas like we have in Libya, all types of assets are immediately put to play in order to go get it.

The military tradition is always that we will go after a pilot with hundreds of lives at stake just to get that one back. So that's always a tradition. Whether the pilot -- the plane was shot down or had a mechanical failure you'll find that the military investigation will come out.

You will see what the results of the investigation are and that will prove that it was not a shoot-down by the Libyan forces.

COSTELLO: I just want to -- like we were having this discussion earlier. You told me so many fascinating details. You said there is a GPS on board this military aircraft and that enabled the military to find it quickly. Tell us more.

FRASER: When emergency is declared, whether he does it verbally, over the radio, or whether -- when an ejection seat is fired, an emergency signal goes out, is picked up by the controlling center or aircraft or back on the ships. And a plan goes in immediately to be able to start launching the aircraft to go pick up the pilots and the weapons officer.

The ejection seat has a locator on it. The pilots have locators on it. The pilots have two-way radios with them. They are encrypted so the hostile forces don't pick it up. They have -- they have an ability to be able to respond in a cryptic manner so that passwords are used so that the rescuers are not lured into an ambush and they carry a pistol or some sort of weapon.

COSTELLO: And we heard Chris mention that the pilots, they ejected -- this crew, I should say, ejected and they landed in different places. So they can communicate with each other through their encrypted walkie-talkies, for lack of a better term, right?

FRASER: They certainly could and not only that, they're talking to aircraft overheard, they're talking with the command center back wherever that is. Probably on the Kearsarge, the amphibian ship that's operating off the coast. Where are those helicopters and the osprey were located.

COSTELLO: And just a final question. Tell us about this F-15 and how the pilots managed to eject. Because when you look at pictures of the aircraft, it's pretty mangled.

FRASER: The F-15 is a fighter ground attack aircraft. It carries two crewmen. One is the pilot, one is a weapons officer in the back, flies as can you see very quickly. It is very good at night. It carries both ground attack bombs, laser-guided. It has machine guns in the front.

And it has ability to be able to shoot down other aircraft. It is a very capable, it's been used many times for a number of years, has updated electronics, is a very good fighter bomber aircraft.

COSTELLO: Alec Fraser, many thanks. Fascinating stuff. And we're glad that crew was OK.

In Misrata, Libya, two hours east of Tripoli people say civilians are still being slaughtered in spite of the coalition air strikes.

This is YouTube video. It claims to show an attack on civilians by Gadhafi supporters. The blast tosses the camera. CNN cannot confirm who was responsible for this attack.

And here's an interesting visual we want to share with you. These are satellite images of Zawiyah, a Libyan city outside of Tripoli. On the left the image from February clearly shows Martyr Square Mosque. On the right, one month later, that building is simply gone.

The intelligence source who provided these photos to CNN says pro- Gadhafi forces destroyed the building because rebels had used it as a command center. The source says the images were used to rattle international concern that Gadhafi was turning on his own people.

Again, CNN cannot verify the authenticity of those images.

President Obama is facing sharp criticism on Capitol Hill from members of both parties. They say he overstepped his authority by launching military strikes without the consent of Congress. One fellow Democrat is going even farther.

Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich says, quote, "I'm raising the question as to whether or not it is an impeachable offense." He goes on to say, "Both Houses of Congress must weigh in. This is not for the president alone or for a few high ranking members of Congress to decide."

Other lawmakers are shying away from talk of impeachment but still insist that Americans need to have a voice in the military action.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICHARD LUGAR (R), RANKING MEMBER, FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: And in my judgment, if we're not on the edge of an act of war, we are close enough that the president really ought to have a debate in the Congress, ought to have on behalf of the American people, a very clear definition of why American forces are going to be at risk, what the objectives are so we can claim success on the basis, literally, of having to define what we were about.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Yet, public support for establishing the no-fly zone has grown in recent days. The latest CNN Opinion Research Corporation poll shows 70 percent of Americans now favor the action compared to 56 percent a week ago. Forty percent opposed it then compared to 27 percent now.

So if most of the nation is behind the president, does it even matter what Congress thinks? We'll ask Eliot Spitzer from CNN's "IN THE ARENA" in the next hour.

Libya pounded for another day by fresh air strikes, but exactly who's in charge and exactly how will it end? Some of those details are still fuzzy even for the countries involved. Coming up, we're asking retired General Wesley Clark how he sees this all playing out.

And white smoke rises from the damaged Japanese nuclear power plant. Officials are not saying what it is. We'll have the latest developments for you from Japan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: The sky in Libya lit up by more Tomahawk missiles. U.S. officials say Moammar Gadhafi's grip on Libya is getting weaker. President Obama says he wants the dictator out but removing him from power is not the mission of the allies.

The coalition goal is to protect citizens from attacks by Gadhafi and his loyalists but the big question today is what's happening with this coalition of nations once so willing to work together, is it starting to fray?

Let's bring in retired General Wesley Clark. He's live in Little Rock.

General, thanks for being here.

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you.

COSTELLO: There seems to be confusion about who is exactly in charge of this mission. I mean, Norway seems confused, Britain and Italy saying NATO should take over, but France say no, NATO should not take over.

You know -- an American plane went down today. This isn't exactly the best time to be figuring out details like this, is it?

CLARK: No, but sometimes this happens. And this is -- the administration has got to work with its allies. It's got to put together these coordination measures and control measures. It's got to do it in haste because Gadhafi was moving quickly on the ground. And you're just watching it in real-time as the process of diplomacy takes place.

Nations have different interests. France has a different interest than Britain, say, in the area. Turkey certainly has its own interests. And what we did 11, 12 years ago in Kosovo is over a long period of time. We worked these issues out without publicity and without people knowing exactly what was going on.

So nations could work together. Here, it's all out in the public.

COSTELLO: I know. And it's frankly kind of scary. Who should take control now? Who should take the reins now?

CLARK: Well, NATO is going to have to finish the coordination job as long as U.S. assets, national assets are required like Tomahawk missiles and other classified intelligence assets. After that, there's no problem with France taking the lead if they want to do it. Britain has a national headquarters and can participate with the French national headquarters.

There's also a European Union command center. Whether it's capable of doing this or not remains a technical question.

I certainly hope that Turkey gets brought into the operation. They have a large population there. They're also the only the Muslim member of NATO and they should be brought into this operation in a responsible way and apparently they haven't been here.

COSTELLO: So what is the likelihood that -- you know, even though the United States doesn't want to take the lead role, that it will be stuck with that?

CLARK: I think that that's possible but it's not the most likely outcome. France very much wants the lead in this and they're going to work to find a way to do it. And if we don't want the lead, let the French have it, so to speak.

Our aircraft will always remain under U.S. chain of command. They may be operationally directed at one target or another or to fly around in the sky, but they are our aircraft under U.S. national command. That's not the issue.

The most important issue is how the military operation then reinforces the administration's policy goals that Gadhafi has to leave.

COSTELLO: We also have American politicians like Dennis Kucinich suggesting that President Obama should maybe be impeached and others like Senator Richard Lugar unclear about what the U.S. mission exactly is.

What kind of message does this send to our allies in this coalition?

CLARK: Well, we're a democracy and people are allowed to express their own opinions. And this case, the operation did come together very quickly due to the humanitarian need on the ground and Gadhafi's efforts to wipe out Benghazi.

And apparently, all the consultation wasn't made, all of the questions weren't answered. Congress was on break during this period. So, OK, they are asking these questions. These questions can be answered.

COSTELLO: Yes, but at what point do American politicians just need to be on the same page, you know, even if they are exactly not, to support our troops over there?

CLARK: Well, I think that the issue in this case is that they -- these politicians also have a duty to their constituents to ask the tough questions.

It's not a football game. And it's not about supporting your own team so much as it is getting it right. And the questions that Congress asks at the outset can be important. They can raise important issues that are going to be critical in the long run.

In the long run, we have to do this right, and we have to do it in accordance with law and in accordance with other interests of the United States and in accordance with what the American people see as our real national security interests.

So, Congress does have an important role to play. I wouldn't want to see it minimized but, on the other hand, the president will answer these questions. They are answerable. It's just a matter of getting it done. It's difficult, because he's out of country.

COSTELLO: It is. General Wesley Clark, thanks so much for being with us today. We appreciate it.

CLARK: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Head of the Arab League says his group stands by its support of the UN resolution on Libya. Qatar says it will send fighter jets to support the no-fly zone, and the UAE, the United Arab Emirates, is debating a military role.

But over the weekend, the League support wasn't so clear. The Secretary-General said the 22-member nations wanted to see civilians protected, not shelled. Anderson Cooper talked about those mixed signals with an expert on international studies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FOUAD AJAMI, INTERNATIONAL STUDIES PROFESSOR: This is the classic textbook of the Arab League. It was amazing, anyway, that the Arab League said anything about Moammar Gadhafi. Remember, what is the Arab League? The Arab --

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Gadhafi was part of the Arab League.

AJAMI: Absolutely. And look at the Arab League. The Arab League has regimes that themselves are embroiled in wars with their own populations. They don't want to come down on Gadhafi. They don't want to, in many ways, show that you can't oppress your own people.

The Syrians are in the Arab League, the Yemenis are in the Arab League, the Bahrainis are in the Arab League. On and on. The Algerians are in the Arab League. So, it's a wonder of wonder that the Arab League actually gave what we could construe as what, a green light? Was it a yellow light? We could just see a flickering light. But that's the Arab League.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: You heard him mention Yemen and Syria. Both those countries are seeing more protests against their governments. In Yemen, a top general says he's on the protester side, and he would order his troops to protect them, not crush them. Yemen's president might be ready to make a deal to give up power.

Let's check in with CNN's Mohammed Jamjoom. He's in Abu Dhabi. So, Mohammed, explain exactly what's going on inside Yemen with this deal.

MOHAMMED JAMJOOM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, a lot of conflicting reports right now out of Yemen exactly what the intentions of the president are. Some people are suggesting he's ready to make a deal with the opposition.

But he came out today in a speech, a televised speech to the National Defense Council. He told the military commanders that defected yesterday that they should come back into the fold. He said that any kind of divisions within the military and the armed forces, there, would only cause chaos. And he said that there were -- if there were attempts at a coup in Yemen, that that would cause all-out civil war.

Now, all the government officials I've spoken with today are very upset with Saleh. They say that was the exactly the wrong thing for him to do. He should have given a much more conciliatory speech. He should have offered concessions. He's not doing that. He's as entrenched as ever. And they're worried that because the military seems to be split right now, that will lead not only to military clashes, but also to civil war if Saleh doesn't figure out a way to transfer power peacefully.

Now, as far as any deals that are being made, Yemeni and US officials last said that Saleh was speaking with the military commanders who had defected. But the fact is, nothing can be done unless the opposition comes to the table, and they refuse to do so. Carol?

COSTELLO: OK, so let's follow up on Syria. There were more protests in southern Syria. What is the government doing about it?

JAMJOOM: It's interesting in Syria because, although it's a very authoritarian regime there, and although it's very rare to see people gathering there in this kind of way, we've seen more and more video has emerged from Syria the past few days showing what appears to be hundreds of people out in the streets of several cities calling for reform, calling for regime change.

Now, what happened is, you had the president of Syria actually being conciliatory toward the family members of protesters that were killed when they got into clashes with security forces. That surprised a lot of people. They didn't think they would hear that kind of a tone from the president.

But it indicates to a lot of people in this region that the Syrian government is quite worried that the wave of unrest that's sweeping through the country -- sweeping through countries in this region could have hit Syria, now, and they could be seeing more of this movement in the coming days. Carol?

COSTELLO: Mohammed Jamjoom, many thanks.

Smoke rises from two reactors at that damaged Japanese nuclear plant, and officials, they don't know what caused it. And a young woman from Virginia, missing since the tsunami struck, well, it has a sad end. She was found dead. Her parents' wish. That's just ahead on CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: We'll get back to our Libyan coverage in just a minute but, right now, we want to check on what's new this morning, what's coming out of Japan. An earthquake with a preliminary magnitude of 6.6 struck off the east coast of Honshu just a short time ago. It was the third strong quake to hit today near the epicenter of that 9.0 quake that, of course, as you know, hit 11 days ago.

Smoke rose from two reactor buildings at the Fukushima nuclear plant. Firefighters sprayed the buildings. Officials are not sure about the source of the smoke. Plans are in place to restore power to the damaged facility.

And the US military is now considering the mandatory evacuation of thousands of American troops and their families from one area of Japan. The proposed move would be due to concern over rising radiation levels. And we want to talk about the possible dangers and why the military might be considering this now with our Chief Medical Correspondent Sanjay Gupta. First of all, welcome back.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.

COSTELLO: So, why would the military be considering a mandatory evacuations for military families now? Why not before?

GUPTA: Yes, it's a good question. And to be fair, I don't think there's a lot of precedent for this sort of thing, right? There's not a lot of incidents in the past where they can say, "Here's exactly what the protocol should be."

I think, in part, it's because the radiation levels have been high. Higher than normal, I should say. Not high enough to cause human health impact, and they acknowledge that. But the anxiety remains considerable.

COSTELLO: Oh.

GUPTA: I think for a lot of people, they thought that maybe the situation would be better by this point, and that the -- the nuclear reactors would actually have more control over those in terms of those radiation level spikes.

That hasn't happened yet. It's not to say they haven't made progress, but that hasn't happened yet. So, I think at some point, they just made a decision that, look, we should at least consider this. They, obviously, allowed voluntary evacuations before, but this idea that, look, we need to actually make it mandatory.

COSTELLO: Well, I think when you hear about radiation levels being found in spinach, in milk, in the soil, in the tap water --

GUPTA: That's right.

COSTELLO: You get a little scared.

GUPTA: You do. And I think that the spinach, for example, was over a hundred kilometers away where they found radioactive particles in the spinach. So, it gives an idea of the scope of this as well. It's not just confined to that Fukushima Daichi region, that 20-kilometer region around that.

But it's fair to say, as well, that the levels are very small. And I know people keep saying that, and I don't know how much it allays anxiety. Somebody put it to me like this, that you'd have to eat that spinach that's been contaminated every single day for a year to get the same amount of radiation in one CAT scan.

It's higher than normal, by all means. Is it going to cause an impact on human health? Not the way things stand right now. And people keep saying that until they're blue in the face, I know, but --

COSTELLO: It doesn't matter.

GUPTA: It may not matter.

COSTELLO: Because -- a lot of my colleagues have friends on the West Coast.

GUPTA: Right.

COSTELLO: They detected radiation levels, very small --

GUPTA: Right.

COSTELLO: -- off the coast of Seattle that it's coming from Japan, and people are really worried. And it doesn't matter how many times you tell them there's nothing to worry about, calm down. It's difficult when you're living in Seattle, or you're living on the West Coast --

GUPTA: Sure.

COSTELLO: -- of the United States.

GUPTA: Yes.

COSTELLO: Or you're living in Hawaii.

GUPTA: And you hear that the detectors, of which there are a hundred permanent detectors around the country, 40 mobile detectors, they've been set up for a long time, but when they start to say, look, the radiation levels are higher than they normally are, even if they're only 1/100,000th higher, you know? Even if they're lower than what you'd normally get just from background radiation, it does --

I mean, it was amazing to me, Carol, when I was in Japan hearing that people on the West Coast were buying out of potassium iodide at the stores. That was surprising to me, because in Japan, you can understand there is a lot of anxiety about radiation because of that country's history. It was a little bit surprising to hear that on the West Coast people were buying it out, considering how low the levels were even in Tokyo on that same island.

COSTELLO: Right. Right.

GUPTA: But again, it's not to say that -- diminish their concerns, because I think you can understand the anxiety, but the science doesn't seem to support that right now.

COSTELLO: Right. So, try to calm down.

GUPTA: Yes.

COSTELLO: I guess that's the best advice. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, many thanks.

GUPTA: Good to see you, Carol.

COSTELLO: It was sadly expected. The death toll rises again in Japan. Japan's national police agency says the death toll has now passed the 9,000 mark. It's the biggest toll for the natural disaster in Japan in 88 years. More than 13,500 people are confirmed missing, and more than 2600 have been injured.

An American teacher has been found dead in Japan, 24-year-old Taylor Anderson, a Virginia native, had been missing since the tsunami struck. Some other teachers told CNN's Anderson Cooper she hopped on her bike after the quake and probably tried to pedal home. Her neighborhood was hit hard by the tsunami. Her parents said she loved Japan, and they also thanked people for their prayers and asked for continued prayers for those still missing and for the people of Japan.

You, too, can help the people of Japan by going to cnn.com/impact. Our Impact Your World site has links to charitable agencies supporting the relief effort in Japan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

COSTELLO: We're following a developing story out of Libya this morning, where a U.S. Air Force fighter jet has crashed after some sort of equipment malfunction, not enemy fire. The U.S. Military says both crew members -- a pilot and a weapon's officer -- got out of the F-15 E Strike Eagle safely. They ejected. They're now in U.S. hands. A senior official tells us a Military plane picked up the pilot and Libyan rebels found the second crewmember and they took care of him until coalition forces could get him out.

Coalition air attacks have stopped pro-Gadhafi forces from entering the rebel stronghold of Benghazi, but residents have not forgotten other Libyans still under attack.

CNN's Arwa Damon reports from a demonstration.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARWA DAMON (on camera): The protesters vowing, changing that with their blood and their souls they will continue to fight for their nation. Also, we're calling the names of Zintan and Misurata, two cities where eyewitnesses say there are still ongoing massacres by Gadhafi's forces. They are also carrying a massive French flag to show their gratitude. They say to those French foreign fighter jets and other nations whose intervention here brought Gadhafi's military machine to a grinding halt outside of Benghazi, preventing what many people felt was an imminent massacre.

Naima (ph) who's standing back there and is a bit shy about appearing on camera has her daughters in Misurata and she hasn't heard from them in quite some time now. She's now really growing increasingly worried. We've been trying a list of numbers for her to try to get through but we're having absolutely no luck.

(SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

DAMON: This is her son and he was just telling us on al Jazeera, they saw their relatives' homes that were damaged. So, of course, that's why they really want to get through, but we're having no luck. All the cell phone lines are shut off and land lines aren't working.

(SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

DAMON: The women here have also been chanting their support for the no-fly zone and for the air strikes. Everyone who we've been talking to have been expressing irritation towards any of those outside voices. Women here are criticizing this international intervention.

Although the city of Benghazi is relatively calm, peaceful for now, there is the realization that this struggle is far from over. As this woman's sign says, we just want freedom. Stop killing our kids in Zawiyah and Misurata and, of course, the area of Zintan (ph).

People want to see this taken until to the very end, until all areas of Libya they say are safe and until Gadhafi is gone from power.

Arwa Damon, CNN, Benghazi, Libya.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Colonel Gadhafi has been laying low but his compound was hit in air strikes. Still, the dictator has said over and over again he's not going anywhere.

So let's get some insight into what makes Gadhafi ticks. Abubaker Saad is one of his former aides. He's joining us live on Skype from Danbury, Connecticut.

Thanks so much for joining us.

ABUBAKER SAAD, FORMER GADHAFI AIDE: Good morning, Carol. Thank you.

COSTELLO: Good morning. It seems like the walls are closing in on Colonel Gadhafi. He's been laying low. First of all, where do you suppose he is?

SAAD: Well, Gadhafi, as you know, he has several bunkers actually. One of the largest bunkers is underneath that particular compound that he is living in and he is actually inviting people to it.

The days when I was there, they built four stories below the ground. So he has a huge bunker there. He has another bunker in Surt, his tribal hometown. So he has several spots where he could actually hide. As you probably all we have noticed that now he is giving all of his statements by phone to the Libyan television.

COSTELLO: So does he have many loyalists around him? I mean, how many people are loyal to him and how long, I mean, are they in great numbers so that they can continue to protect him?

SAAD: They are. Unfortunately, they are. He has a large number of loyalists surrounding him and most of them had lived a luxurious life when things were going good for him. So they feel that if they abandon him, they, themselves, are also going to be in trouble. So, basically, they are sticking by him for their own survival. COSTELLO: So the no-fly zone appears to be working and maybe Gadhafi is hiding out in one of these underground tunnels. I mean, eventually, would he capitulate in some way and what would that involve, do you suppose?

SAAD: From the way I know him, throughout the years, he is not going to capitulate. He is going to fight it out. The only possibility that some of his loyalists will begin to realize that they are on a losing side, once they realize that, some of them might act, like those who have defected into the freedom fighters groups. So that's basically the only hope. But he and his family are really sticking it out to the last minute so they are not going to leave.

COSTELLO: And my last question. There appears to be mustard gas. He has access to chemical weapons.

How likely would it be that he would use them?

SAAD: I doubt if he could use it, but, you know, knowing Gadhafi, he can do anything to survive. He knows if he releases the mustard gas, he, himself and his relatives and his loyalists and friends are going victim to it, too, because they are not that sophisticated in handle is these kind of chemical weapons or nuclear weapons when he had it before and it was cleaned out from him in 2004 and 2005.

COSTELLO: Abubaker Saad, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it.

SAAD: Thank you.

COSTELLO: We go to Diana Magnay. She's on board the USS Kearsarge and that's where one of the rescued crew members of that F-15E fighter jet, you know, it had mechanical problems, it went down. Two crew members were rescued inside Libya. One of those crewmembers is aboard that ship.

So Diana, what can you tell us?

DIANA MAGNAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, hi. Well a rescue mission to go and rescue one of those pilots was conducted from the Kearsarge last night. Two osprey tilt rotor aircraft left here to go and pick him up. He is now, apparently, being looked after by the staff here. There are extensive medically facilities on board this vessel, which is an amphibious assault vessel.

These jets behind me, these harrier jets have been launching strike missions on Libya, the area around Benghazi, and then the area around Ajdabiya on Saturday and Sunday respectively. But last night they were involved simply in this rescue mission. The ospreys here taking off to rescue one of those two pilots who, as you say, Carol, is currently in the medical facilities here on board.

We will, of course, be trying to speak to them as soon as we can be, but we have had they heard that their injuries are minor, Carol.

COSTELLO: After they're treated for those minor injuries, where will they be taken?

MAGNAY: This is unclear. We have only just found out that they're actually on ship and we've only just landed on board the Kearsarge ourselves.

I'm also not hearing at this stage whether the second pilot has been evacuated from Libya. He was found by rebel forces and looked after and I'm not sure what the status of that rescue operation is right now. Perhaps he may -- the pilot who is currently on board this vessel may be taken to the base in Sigonella in Sicily, which is where this expeditionary unit is generally based around.

Of course, the Mt. Whitney has command and control of all the ships in this area around me and they will be in control, in command, obviously, of where this pilot goes next, Carol.

COSTELLO: Well, I'll let you go Diana Magnay, to get more information.

Thank you for filling us in, though. We appreciate it.

A bit of chest-thumping in Russia. Former president Vladimir Putin and his successor Dmitry Medvedev are sparring over Libya. We'll tell you what they're saying about it and each other.

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COSTELLO: As you know, CNN's journalists are employed in war zones around the globe and last night that role came under attack. The criticism came from FOX News and our coverage of the ally strikes on Libya.

FOX's Jennifer Griffin reported that allied jets had to call off a strike on Moammar Gadhafi's compound because international journalists were on site. She said Gadhafi's government took the reporters there to use them as human shields.

Well, our Nic Robertson was one of those reporters on the site and he discussed the situation with Wolf Blitzer.

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WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": I want you to explain what you know about this suggestion FOX News reporting that you, a Reuters crew, some other journalists were effectively used by Gadhafi as a human shield to prevent allied fighter planes from coming in and attacking a certain position.

Explain what you know about this.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this allegations is outrageous and it's absolutely hypocritical. You know, when you come to somewhere like Libya, you expect lies and deceit from a dictatorship here. You don't expect it from the other journalists.

Why do I say that? Because FOX News has said that they didn't send somebody on this trip last night because they said it was, quote/unquote, "propaganda trip."

They sent a member of their team. He was non-editorial. He was nontechnical. Not normally a cameraman. He was given a camera by the team and told to come out and come on -- come on the bus with the 40 other journalists who were there who were free to get on the bus, free to get off the bus when they wanted.

Told us when he was on the bus that even he, this member of this Fox team, was surprised that their correspondent and the normal cameraman weren't coming out, that he was being sent. This isn't his normal job, that he was being sent. So that's why I say what Fox is saying is outrageous and hypocritical.

And the idea that we were some kind of human shields is nuts. I mean, if they had actually been there, Steve Harrigan the correspondent here is somebody I've known for many years, I see him more times at breakfast than I see him out on trips with government officials here.

Other correspondents here who go out regularly say the same things. NBC, CBS, all of the other news teams here go out. Not on all of the government trips. We didn't go out on another one yesterday. But we -- we very, very rarely see the Fox News team out on the trip.

So for them to say and call this -- to say they didn't go, and for them to call this and say this was government propaganda to hold us there as human shields, when they didn't even leave the hotel, the correspondent didn't leave the hotel and go and see for himself is ridiculous.

We were taken there. We went in through the security. We film the building. We were given 15, 20 minutes to do that. Five minutes at Gadhafi's tent and then we were taken out. And I was literally physically pushed back on the bus when we left.

That's how quickly the government officials wanted to get us out. If I sound angry it is because I am. As I say, I expect lies from the government here, I don't expect it from other journalist and it -- and it's frankly incredibly disappointing to me -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Well, did this Fox representative who went with you on this trip, did he have a camera?

ROBERTSON: He was given a camera by the cameraman and the correspondent who stayed in the hotel and didn't go out, a correspondent who very rarely leaves his hotel. I don't know who he's talking to here to pick up and find out what the story is. Where we go on these government trips is for a very simple reason because we don't want government officials to film it themselves, edit it themselves and then hand it off to us.

We want to go for ourselves. We want to go and see. Is it a command and control system? What are the telltale signs there? That the government wouldn't let us see if they edited the tape, that's why we go because we're news professionals and we want to see it for ourselves.

As I say, I'm -- I'm disappointed, shocked. I -- I find this a very, very poor situation -- Wolf.

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COSTELLO: And late last night, Fox's Jennifer Griffin returned to Fox's air and she acknowledged that Fox had, indeed, sent a representative of that media tour of the compound and she apologized for saying they had not. She, however, stands by her claim of journalists being used as human shields.

NASA workers' pay tribute to the space program and form a human shuttle. See how it all came together, next.

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COSTELLO: Here are stories making news cross country. Southern California is cleaning up after a fierce storm that struck on the first day of spring. Snow fell at the higher elevations, the storm brought high winds, thunderstorms and record rainfall in other areas.

In Minnesota, people are keeping a nervous eye on rising rivers fed by heavy rain and melting snow. Chunks of floating ice and debris are getting caught under bridges and complicating the problem.

In Miami, people can now stay fit without paying for a gym membership. The cities of Miami and Miami Beach have opened several free outdoor gyms. Many are right on the beach as you can see. "Men's Health Magazine" recently ranked Miami as the fattest city in America. As one Miami commissioner says no more excuses.

Workers at the Kennedy Space Center have created a human tribute to the space shuttle program. It took more than an hour to get everybody in place, we've speeded it up for you. All 2,000 workers at the Kennedy Space Center were invited to take part in the tribute to the soon-to-be retired program.

And a quick programming note to tell you about on Thursday we are going to interview Mark Kelly and the other five members of the "Endeavour" crew live right here on this broadcast. So be sure to catch it at 9:00 a.m. Eastern. And if you have a question for the crew, grab a camera and put it on iReport and we'll ask the crew your questions.

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COSTELLO: We're following lots of developments in the next hour of the CNN NEWSROOM. Let's check in first with Chris Lawrence at the Pentagon.

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, remember when federal spending was all that anybody could talk about? Well, the mission into Libya isn't free. Stick around for about 20 minutes. We're going to try to break down exactly what it costs to keep that no-fly zone flying.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. After the air strikes in Libya, a Democratic congressman is talking about impeachment and cutting off funds for the military mission there. I'll have the story, coming up.

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: And I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. You know, gas is expensive, but could you be paying $5-a-gallon for gas come next year? Well, the former president of one of the world's biggest oil companies is betting on it. We're going to tell you all you need to know coming up in the next hour.

COSTELLO: Oh, say it isn't so. But thank you Poppy.

Also, three Libyan-American brothers are hoping the revolt may lead to a reunion. They have not seen their father, an opposition activist, in two decades. They think he's locked away in a Libyan prison if he's still alive.

Coming up in the next hour, one son shares the struggle to find and free his father.

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COSTELLO: Checking stories making news later today, President Obama is heading to El Salvador. He has a meeting with El Salvador's president and later he and the first lady visit a school and a community center.

Attorney General Eric Holder is talking about the safety of law enforcement officers with police officials from across the country. They're gathering right now in Washington.

Jury selection is expected to begin in New Orleans in a class action lawsuit stemming from Hurricane Katrina. The family of a New Orleans man say he should not have died at memorial hospital after the storm hit in 2005.

And in New York, hall of fame linebacker Lawrence Taylor is being sentenced to six years' probation for having improper sexual conduct with an underage girl.