Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Unrest in Egypt; Gadhafi Still Attacking Civilians; Fighting Continues in Libya; Large Protests Break Out in Yemen and Syria; A Witness in Misurata, Libya, Describes a Dire Situation; Financial Experts Give Advice

Aired March 22, 2011 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Randi, I love that story. And hello to you.

Want to begin with Moammar Gadhafi, still not complying with U.N. Resolution 1973, still using force against his own people. That is according to an American admiral, the commander off the U.S. Naval forces in Europe and Africa, who said today -- and I'm going to quote here -- "We will continue to make him comply."

It's also just a couple of hours since a U.S. Air Force F-15 Strike Eagle jet went down in Eastern Libya with two U.S. Air Force officers on board. Now, the official word from the Pentagon today is that the plane experienced some sort of equipment malfunction. We do now know the two crew members ejected. They were recovered and they are now safe and out of Libya.

I want to get right to the Pentagon, get a little bit more on this with Chris Lawrence live for me there.

And, Chris, let's just back up.

How was the crew rescued? Where are these two members now, and how are they doing?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, first off, Brooke, how are they doing? They're OK. They have got some minor injuries, but that's to be expected when you consider they had to eject from their airplane.

These two crew members had some sort of mechanical malfunction in their F-15. They had to eject from the airplane over Eastern Libya. Now, the ejection worked fine, the parachutes worked fine, but they landed in different places. The pilot was picked up by an Osprey, a team from the USS Kearsarge, which is sitting just offshore about 100 miles in the Mediterranean Sea. They sent out the plane out. They picked up the pilot.

The weapons officer actually fell in a different location. He was actually recovered by some of the rebel forces. One of the officials here at the Pentagon says those forces took very good care of him, they treated him with dignity, and then he was then able to communicate his location to the U.S. military, who then made arrangements to get him out of Libya as well. BALDWIN: Chris, do we know where they were flying out of? Did I read it was Italy? And do we know what their mission specifically was over Libya before the jet crashed?

LAWRENCE: That's right. They are American pilots who the plane was based in the U.K., in the United Kingdom, but, yes, they were flying out of an Italian base as part of this mission. And they were specifically on a strike mission.

So they weren't just up there patrolling, flying around. They were specifically flying to take out some more of Moammar Gadhafi's air defenses.

BALDWIN: How many U.S. aircraft could there be in the air over Libya at any given time, Chris?

LAWRENCE: It's hard to say because they don't parcel it out by country. It is a coalition effort. So they're mixing and matching French jets, U.K. jets, U.S. jets.

And it really depends on exactly what sort of mission they're flying. Some are still flying these strike missions. Others more further towards the eastern part of the country are now in more of a patrol area, just sort of overflights.

BALDWIN: We're also learning this piece of information. Admiral Locklear is now saying this afternoon that air forces are now diminished, quoting here, diminished to the point where it will have -- where it will not have any negative impact, referring to Gadhafi's air forces here, on these coalition members conducting the airstrikes.

Can you just -- what does that really mean?

LAWRENCE: That means that the major assault phase is, for the most part, over, when it comes to getting rid of the air defenses. It means that planes, for the most part, not 100 percent, but for the most part, can now start to patrol certain areas without the danger of being shot down from below.

Most of that capability was in his surface-to-air missiles. That's why in that first 48 hours, you saw that barrage of Tomahawk missiles from the coalition. That was designed to take out some of Moammar Gadhafi's missiles. His air force was in bad repair, not much of a threat. And as the military has said, he really has not flown any aircraft since this no-fly zone started.

BALDWIN: And then my final question to you is, you know, a lot of people have talked about how the Arab League wanting this no-fly zone, that was kind of a game-changer for a lot of the other nations, including the U.S. And there hasn't thus far really been any heavy lifting on behalf of any Arab nation.

But now we're hearing today that Qatar, that the Qatar military could be preparing to join this coalition effort over Libya. What can you tell me about that? LAWRENCE: Yes. Apparently, Qatar has been moving some of its forces into the area. And we expect that, by the weekend, they may be a part of some of these flights flying overhead in Libya.

BALDWIN: OK. Chris Lawrence live at the Pentagon -- Chris, thanks for the update so much.

And we will be checking in with our senior international correspondent out of Tripoli, Nic Robertson. He's actually just back from a trip with government forces to take a look at some areas that have been bombed in and around the capital city. We will get a lay of the land from Nic here any moment now.

But I do want to take a quick break.

But before I do, President Obama has made it clear the U.S. might be leading now, leading this mission here, but that's not going to last much longer. But here is the question a lot of you are asking. How do they hand over the responsibility?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. CARTER HAM, COMMANDER, U.S. AFRICA COMMAND: It's not so simple as just having a handshake someplace and say, OK, you're now in charge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So who does take over next? And how long will that mission go on? That's next.

And take a look at this picture with me. That's a lot of dark, black smoke rising from a government building. This is Cairo. So what is happening today in Egypt, you ask? CNN still has correspondents there. We will get you live to Cairo and explain what is going on, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: As promised, want to go straight now to Libya to senior international correspondent Nic Robertson, who is there in Tripoli.

And, Nic, I know you have been spending your days there in the capital city, again today being escorted somewhere by government officials. Tell me where you were taken and what you saw.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We were taken to the port facility in Tripoli, and Tripoli has a very big port, but we were taken to the naval section of it, where there were naval vessels along the dockside.

We weren't allowed to film the naval vessels, but we were taken to a large warehouse facility right there on the docks right out in the water in the harbor area.

We were shown several destroyed mobile rocket launchers. They look like mobile surface-to-air missile rocket launchers. There were four of them, and literally the four of them were parked side by (AUDIO GAP) and right at the back there was a crater (INAUDIBLE) that appeared to be a missile strike (AUDIO GAP) destroyed the vehicles.

But inside that warehouse, we could see other what looked like missiles (AUDIO GAP) for these rocket launchers, surface-to-air missiles. Officials didn't want us taking too close a look at those.

They told us that this facility was a training and repair facility, a facility they said that was used by civilians. We did see workshops, mechanical workshops where there were repairs for propellers, propeller shafts for some of the naval vessels. But very clearly for us, we could see that this was a military facility that had (AUDIO GAP) targeted, Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. And, Nic, as I keep you, stand by.

I do want to let everyone know we have you in Tripoli. We also have Arwa Damon in Benghazi. And she's been working and covering the opposition forces. So we will get that side of things as well.

But I want to ask you about a city not too terribly far from you, Nic. And that's Misrata. We have heard today from Admiral Locklear saying Gadhafi's forces, despite this alleged cease-fire, they're very much still so attacking civilians there.

I'm sure you have asked the government to take you to Misrata. What are they saying?

ROBERTSON: Time and time and time again, we have asked. Misrata has been the center of focus for a couple of weeks, to get there. It's only two or three hours' drive away. You would think, any rational person would think that it would be easy to go there.

The government insists that it's taken control of the city, insists that it has a cease-fire. If that were true, it would be -- they would take us there readily. The fact that they won't take us is indicative of the facts that we're finding out from the coalition, that there's still fighting going on there.

We have asked them. And one time when I asked, I was told that you journalists believe too strongly in yourselves. Your information wouldn't stand up in the court of law. Don't be so confident in yourselves.

So we have been dismissed out of hand by government officials when we have asked to go to Misrata. We will continue to push, but no luck so (AUDIO GAP)

BALDWIN: No, I know you will. And I know, Nic -- Nic, if you're still with me, it was this time yesterday that we were showing live pictures, just above your head essentially, seeing some of the tracer fire, some of the anti-aircraft fire. Have you seen any of that in the last few hours at all?

ROBERTSON: About 20 minutes ago, there was a small burst of heavy anti-aircraft gunfire and it went away. It was some ways distance to where we are. Perhaps there was a missile or bomb that fell that we couldn't hear that was on the outskirts of the city. But I think there would have been mover gunfire had that been the case. So perhaps that was just somebody lining up or training on a weapon. Not clear so far tonight, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And given what you have been seeing, given Operation Odyssey Dawn, have you noticed any psychological effects among any of these Gadhafi forces whatsoever in the last day or two?

ROBERTSON: No.

I look for the cracks. You look for it in the body language. I sat and talked late last night with the deputy foreign minister. I talked late last night as well with another very senior government official who took a phone call while I was with him from one of the Gadhafi sons.

He seemed very at ease with the situation, unfazed with what's going on, where -- of what may be coming and had a pretty good analysis, he thought, of what was going to be coming, today seemed -- still seemed pretty confident. I talked to a young naval officer today who helped put the fire out at the port facility after the rockets landed, the missiles landed, taking out those rocket launchers.

And he said, look, there has to be a cease-fire. We have to get into talks here at this time.

But I'm not seeing anyone standing up. And I don't think we will see anyone stand up here and say Gadhafi has to go. Why? Because the regime won't tolerate it. They certainly won't tolerate it on camera. And the sorts of people we were able to meet a couple of weeks ago, get in touch with, who would tell us their true feelings, right now, they're just too afraid while emotions are so high here, to afraid to tell us what they're really thinking. But they -- it's a clear understanding between us and them that they're worried about the situation for their families, but they want to see Moammar Gadhafi gone -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Sure.

Emotions and lives at this point, lives would be there at stake there.

Nic Robertson doing such an impressive job reporting for us out of Libya -- Nic, my thanks to you.

And we keep being told that the command of the coalition military operation in Libya will be handed over soon. I think it was President Obama saying in days just yesterday. But the question is, hand it over to whom?

Senior foreign affairs correspondent Jill Dougherty is live there in Paris.

And, Jill, we know and the president pointed this out again yesterday in Chile that America have the most assets here, so they're essentially coordinating the operation right now. But we know that Washington does at some point want to pull back. France doesn't want this to turn it into a NATO operation because they say that that's not what the Arab countries want. So who will lead, Jill?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: OK. Well, you know, sometimes you split the difference and sometimes you put two things together.

And that seems to be what they're doing. I mean, if you judge by what the French are saying today, the foreign minister is saying, we will create a joint -- like a tandem approach. Part of it would be political, and that would be the foreign ministers, in other words, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and foreign ministers of other countries, from not only the Western countries, but the Arab countries, and they would be in a group that's like a joint steering group.

Then there also would be NATO, but NATO wouldn't be like the -- in the leadership position calling all the shots. NATO would be very much part of it, because NATO is the only organization that can carry this out militarily. But that group would be using the assets and the capabilities of NATO.

So it would be kind of a joint double-headed situation. And that would solve some diplomatic problems, because, as you pointed out, the French very much believe that the Arabs do not want a Western face on this. They don't want NATO carrying out another military operation in another Arab country.

So you would have the political side of it, which would be publicly speaking a lot and the military over here doing their thing and coordinating.

BALDWIN: I like how you said that, splitting the difference.

DOUGHERTY: That appears -- appears to be what it would be.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: So it would be a tandem approach, as you can glean thus far. And I'm sure it's changing perhaps hourly or I know daily, so NATO not necessarily in leadership. Would that potentially appease the Arab nations, then, in participating?

DOUGHERTY: Well, it could, certainly. But you have a lot of complications. You know, I think it's very important. In all of these joint international operations, these people are politicians at home often, too.

And just like in the United States there are domestic considerations, in these countries, there are domestic considerations. And to give you a good example, Qatar is a country that's on board militarily. In fact, today, the French said they have got two planes, two fighter jets, that they are contributing and those planes are going to be in Greece and they will be moving into the area and carrying out operations with the French. That's Qatar.

Now, when it comes to the United Arab Emirates, they have a complicated situation because they are being criticized for -- the United States, for participating in kind of a peacekeeping operation in Bahrain, which is looking like a crackdown. So already you're into these other stories that are making it very, very complex. So the UAE is at this point on board on humanitarian issues, but it's not on board militarily yet.

BALDWIN: Yet, you say. We will wait and see if they do more than humanitarian aid. But that is news today, Qatar two planes, two fighter jets.

That's the first Arab nation here going forward militarily. Jill Dougherty, thank you so much for trying to explain that out of Paris. Appreciate it.

And coming up here, we're going to take you to Cairo live, where the Egyptian Interior Ministry -- you see these pictures, the black smoke. You see the flames as well. It broke out, this fire broke out after thousands of people were protesting right outside. We will take you there live coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: We are getting some new details today about that huge fire today in downtown Cairo.

Let's throw the picture up so you can see what happened. This is the Egyptian Interior Ministry building, multiple floors of this building clearly on fire. This whole thing started after thousands of ministry employees were protesting outside the building. They want higher wages.

But the demonstrators say they had nothing to do with the fire.

I want to go live to Ivan Watson on the story for us in Cairo.

And, Ivan, we know that the Interior Ministry is obviously investigating here. What have they said, if anything, thus far?

IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, a spokesman for the Interior Ministry told us that he thinks it could be an electrical circuit malfunction on the top floors of that building. And he explained the rapid speed with which the fire then grew, he blamed that on the fact that there are many uniforms stored up there and old pieces of furniture and maybe that's why there was so much smoke. He said nobody was injured, except for a few firemen who dealt with smoke inhalation -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Now, this isn't the first suspicious fire in Cairo in about a month. This is number two, is it not, Ivan?

WATSON: Yes. I was here about 30 days ago, Brooke, on February 23, when there was another demonstration in front of that very same building and there were acts of arson, cars set on fire, and the facade of one of the Interior Ministry buildings was also torched.

Now, in this case, we don't know how this fire started. The demonstrators were demonstrating peacefully in front of the building. It does look, based on where the fire erupted, on the top floors, that it's not something they could have thrown up there or somebody could have thrown. Many of the demonstrators were angrily debating what the source of the fire could have been, believe possibly some people were saying it could have been started from within the building.

But two fires at that building in 30 days, it looks awfully suspicious and suggests that the political situation here in Egypt is still far from stable about a month-and-a-half after the president of this country, the dictatorial president, was overthrown.

BALDWIN: Yes, I think you're absolutely right. I think big picture pulling back, it reminds us that this country that we saw through this revolution very much so far from stable even now that Hosni Mubarak is out of there.

Ivan Watson report live in Cairo -- Ivan, my thanks so you.

And coming up here, we're taking you to Japan, where smoke is still rising at that nuclear plant. But there is now word that power has been restored at one of those reactors. We are going to tell you what that really means next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: OK, time to get you caught up to speed here on what's happening in Japan.

And, first, let's go to some video, because we are now 11 days removed from the earthquake, and really what can you say about this? This is the scene in one of these towns right along the northeast coast where first the earth shook and then the ocean rushed in, the tsunami -- 11 days later, more than 13,000 people are still counted as missing.

Today, the official death toll crossed 9,000. And now I want to move on to the other part of the story. This is a picture I know you are familiar with by now. Steam, you see it, rising again today from the stricken nuclear plant.

In fact, what you're seeing right there, this is unit number four, so steam and smoke yesterday. We spoke about that -- now steam again today. Also today, a Japanese official said units one and two are damaged worse than suspected and that includes potential damage to the unit's nuclear cores.

They then sprayed water again today at reactor number two, reactor number three, and reactor number four. So, once again, the thing they want to prevent here is the potential melting of some of the units' nuclear fuel. That includes the fuel contained in those spent fuel rods. They had been housed in sort of the roof areas of some of these different reactor buildings. Today, they did get power restored to part of unit three here, but not to the crucial cooling system.

We're staying on the story. We will be watching it for you.

Coming up next here, we are just getting word that several members of al Qaeda have been killed in Yemen. And that's just one of the countries in the Middle East where violence is escalating. John King, he's going to join me here to break it all down, the political hot spots for us in the region.

John and I will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Let's get back to the Middle East, because we know there's Tunisia and Egypt. Their governments fell after just days, weeks of popular uprising. Now you know, of course, where Libya stands today. Similar tension is spreading and heating up in several other Arab states.

I want to talk now to my colleague John King. There he is in Washington. John, let's talk about the hot spots. I know there are several and the potential for upheaval.

JOHN KING, HOST, "JOHN KING USA": Brooke, as you just noted, most of our attention in recent days is on Libya because it's turned not only into political uprising but a civil war with international intervention. So we're watching Libya, of course.

But there have been protests in recent days over in Morocco. Here's Libya, here's Egypt, Tunisia here, dramatic change there. Morocco have been protests. There have been more protests in Egypt, too, around the constitution am voting. There have been protests in Syria, some of the most large and aggressive protests in years in Syria, demanding change in their government. Protests as well continue in Bahrain. We know that has been a sore point with the Obama administration because there are Saudi troops, United Arab Emirates troops have tried to help Bahrain. We've watched that. More protests as well in Yemen and small protests in is Saudi Arabia.

So what started a couple of months ago in Tunisia obviously was successful in Egypt is still spending a lot of time focusing on Libya, because that is where the military action is, but there are continued uprisings across the countries. And nobody knows where this is headed. It's just a dramatic time of political upheaval in the Middle East and North Africa area, perhaps right here the most volatile neighborhood in the world.

BALDWIN: John, let's talk Yemen specifically for a second. We know Defense Secretary Robert gates today said he didn't want to talk about Yemen, calling it an internal situation. My question is, is that the official policy on all of the different places you mentioned?

KING: Well, obviously we're involved, our military is involved in Libya, so we have had a pick and choose policy. That's one of the criticisms of the administration. Why are they so nervous about Yemen? You see some of the demonstrations here. Yemen has been a very good U.S. ally. There are special forces operations in Yemen. There are fights against Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula in Yemen. So when the administration sees these protests demanding change on one hand, the president says you have to support the people because they want individual rights. On the other hand he's worried because if President Saleh steps down, who will fight Al Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula.

Here are attacks to the Al Qaeda in Yemen. The Christmas Day attempted plane bombing, the cargo planes package bombs a year ago, Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, the Ft. Hood shooting suspect also, and the "times" square bombing attempt also linked back to the terrorist group.

That is, as Secretary Gates says, as I know the president believes, the most active Al Qaeda chapter, Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, right there in Yemen. So when you have all of this upheaval, what happens? If there is regime change in Yemen, does the next regime continue to cooperate with the United States, or do the radicals somehow take power, seize the vacuum?

BALDWIN: The most active Al Qaeda chapter, AQAP. I know a lot of people worry about AQAP. Would what's happening in Yemen, would that at all be a distraction? Could it at all be a good thing for Al Qaeda there?

KING: Well, that's a great question because one of the interesting things and the noteworthy things our terrorist analyst Peter Bergen has said very well, he thinks this is bad for Al Qaeda in the long term and in the big picture because none of these people demonstrating, you don't see American flags being burned. You don't see people burning Obama in effigy or making anti-American statements. These are people saying, we want rights. We want to vote. We want free elections. So it's not anti-American.

So in the long term this could be devastating to Al Qaeda, if Arabs can have the right of free elections, the right of choice, the political freedoms we enjoy in the United States.

In the short term, in the particular case of Yemen, what the administration worries about is that government falling and the radicals seizing the vacuum and perhaps using it as a base to launch attacks in the short term. In the long run, everyone thinks this could, could, big capital "c" could turn out to be devastating to Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, knowing its power in Yemen, they're a bit nervous at the White House.

BALDWIN: I'll have to look for that Peter Bergen article on CNN.com. John King, thank you so much. It helps looking at a map. I appreciate it, Mr. King.

Now take a look at a report with me from Randi Kaye. It shows how dramatically and quickly the tension has spiked in Syria.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For six days people in the southern city of Daraa have taken to the streets. It began as a protest against the detention of more than 30 children, some as young as 10, who had written graffiti saying "The people want the fall of the regime." The protestors soon added corruption and economic hardship to their list of grievances. Human rights groups say six people have been killed so far, most of them shot Friday by security forces.

This video uploaded to YouTube was apparently shot at a funeral in Daraa Saturday. The unrest has since spread to towns near Daraa, an important agricultural center close to the border with Jordan. On Monday, video was posted on YouTube, apparently showing a protest where a crowd shouted, "after today, no fear."

President Bashar al Assad has in some ways opened up a country tightly controlled by his father, allowing greater economic freedom and access to the Internet. But the regime's tolerance of dissent is very limited. Its extensive security forces often in plainclothes have moved in quickly, this cell phone video apparently showing the arrest of a woman protestor.

MARK TONER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: We condemn the violence by the Syrian government that have caused death and injuries of individuals who protested in Syria over the past week. And we call on the government to exercise restraint and refrain from violence against the peaceful protesters.

KAYE: The U.S. had few options to influence events in Syria, but they seem to be acquiring a momentum of their own with widespread protests being called for on Friday on Facebook and other social media.

Randi Kaye, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Coming up, President Obama has said we are in Libya for humanitarian reasons specific live. But he also said this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is U.S. policy that Gadhafi needs to go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So what is it that the United States is really trying to accomplish in Libya? We'll have that conversation next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: A coherent goal for the mission in Libya, President Obama says the strategy is clear and he's laid it out pretty well. But a lot of people, perhaps you included, say they're not exactly sure I guess what is going on, and what is perhaps more importantly coming up next.

Some of them are in fact members of Congress. Another one is my guest. Les Gelb is the president emeritus for the Council on Foreign Relations and also a former assistant secretary of state. And Les, it's nice to see you. I read your pieces all the time. In one of your pieces I was reading last night you wrote, quote, "President Obama and his team have a herculean task on their hands. So we're there, U.S. is there. We can't argue about that now, Les. So what does president Obama do next?

LESLIE GELB, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: I think the main thing he should do next is to push the Arabs to come in and do what they more or less promised us, namely that they would play an active role in this no-fly zone operation. They can't stand on the sidelines or play just a minimal role. They've got to come in and play a significant role.

BALDWIN: Les, how exactly does the president go about doing that, pushing the Arabs to be involved?

GELB: He's got to get on the phone and call the Arab leaders who were in the leadership of that Arab league resolution and say, look, we did this in good part because of your blessing and because of the anticipation that this would not simply be a western military action. And it's going to fall apart or turn against us all unless you become a principle party to it.

BALDWIN: Les, I want you to finish your thought when I asked, what does the president does next. So, number one, push the Arabs. Number two, what does he do?

GELB: Number two, he's got to turn over control of the operation to our main partners, the British and the French. That was the understanding at the outset, and it's very important he keep to it.

And, thirdly, I think he ought to propose a cease-fire. Now, that's very tricky because to propose it and push it, not just say, let's have a cease-fire, means that, in one way or another, that's an acceptance of the continued existence of the terrible Colonel Gadhafi.

But unless we do that, this civil war will continue, and I don't believe any amount of no-fly zone action is going to settle that civil war conclusively.

BALDWIN: Les, let's play the "what if" game. What if the cease-fire is actually upheld in Libya? What if Gadhafi stops this violence against his people, but then let's say what if he still remains there? I know this has to be a scenario the State Department is playing out, thinking about. Then what do they do? I remind the phrase, is it the devil you know versus the devil you don't? What's the better choice?

GELB: Well, one would have hoped they would have thought about this before we fired the first shot, but a lot of what we've said publicly doesn't indicate there was must what-if-ing going on in the administration or elsewhere.

BALDWIN: You honestly don't think there was enough what-if-ing done prior to the first fire?

GELB: No, I don't, and it doesn't look like it. And a lot of these things don't look like they're surprising the administration. But what do you do then? You have for a time being a divided country. And given the fact that we know a lot about Colonel Gadhafi and don't like him and given the fact that we know very little about the rebels in the east who really did this uprising, for the time being that may not be a bad outcome.

It doesn't settle things. It doesn't settle things. But settling it may involve much more military involvement on our parts. And I don't think our interests justify that kind of additional military engagement.

BALDWIN: Well, we don't know, and that has been one question, if two Libyas begin to emerge or not. And then who takes control and trying to learn more about the opposition and their philosophy and who might emerge. But Les Gelb, I appreciate you coming on, thank you. We'll check back in with you.

I'm now getting word that we have someone on the phone who I cannot identify because of his safety, because he is calling in from Misurata, a town about 120 miles from the capital city of Tripoli. If I may just first ask you, what have you seen? What have you experienced in the city of Misurata in the last 24 hours?

WITNESS, IN MISURATA: This is the fifth day of consecutive shelling of the whole city of Misurata, and the murderous dictator is distributing and has snipers on almost all of the buildings, on the main street and the town center.

BALDWIN: Snipers on almost all of the buildings.

WITNESS: And Misurata has been without telecommunications for 21 days now and without water and electricity for nine days. The situation is dire, and this is an urgent call for help in Misurata.

BALDWIN: Sir, let me just ask you, how are you existing day to day? Are you simply staying home, doors closed, praying for your safety?

WITNESS: Pardon hardly, hardly. The situation is terribly hard for the families in Msrata. Water is very, very scarce. Having no electricity has impacted the food situation. And it is really a very, very desperate situation now. The international strikes have not -- were felt in Misurata and first night of attacks they destroyed a base south of Misurata and really we are grateful and relieved by that. And it worked wonders for our morale and it destroyed the dictate o dictator's forces morale. But we haven't seen strikes in Misurata since.

BALDWIN: I know you're calling in, speaking on behalf of the opposition movement there in Libya. What kind of presence do members of the opposition have in Misurata specifically?

WITNESS: The whole of Misurata has risen up against this mad dictator. And we have formed a local council which works under the national council and is part of the national council and we are looking after the affairs of our city to the best of our ability and to the best of our resources. But the situation militarily -- this dictator has flattened the city and has created a climate of fear. People are fearing for their lives. You cannot walk in any street in the fear of a shell landing on you or near you. And we call up on the international community to destroy his power bases in Misurata and destroy his supply lines and disrupt and destroy his communications and command structure.

BALDWIN: Are you at all comforted, as a member of the opposition, knowing that operation Odyssey Dawn, knowing there's a military coalition fight going on in the skies above Libya, does that allay any of your fears at all?

WITNESS: Absolutely. We are heartened by that and we are grateful for that, and I cannot tell you how important is that. That is so vital. If it hadn't been for the international community actions, we would have been all gone a long, long time ago. We just need it to continue and we feel that we need this mad dictator to be bombed into submission and taken to court.

BALDWIN: What about, quickly here, as you mentioned, you're lacking water, lacking electricity and food, how are the hospitals holding up here?

WITNESS: The main hospital in Misurata is working on a generator. If that generator gives up, I can't even imagine the consequences of that. It is a desperate call for help in Misurata. Please.

BALDWIN: Well, we hear your words here live over CNN, sir. I appreciate you calling in and perhaps even risking your own life to do that. I appreciate it. Stay right here. CNN Newsroom will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Still ahead, they are freed now but their stories of what it was like being held in Libya are incredible. We will tell you what happened to those four "New York Times" journalists coming up.

But first, Stephanie Elam with some free money advice.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANIE ELAM: Time now for the Help Desk, where we get answers to your financial questions. With me right now, Donna Rosata, a senior editor at "Money," and Lynette Cox, a writer for walletpop.com. Glad you are here. We have questions coming in.

First from Brian in Connecticut, "I'm a grad student graduating in the next few months and trying to get a handle on my debt. Can you give me an idea where I should start?" This is probably good thing, get it done.

DONNA ROSATA, SR. EDITOR, MONEY: Start with a budget no question about it, get a hand only your expenses, find out how much money you have got going out the door. You don't want to deficit spend. In other words, you don't want to spend more than you are actually earning. Hopefully as a recent graduate, he has actually found a job that will help.

Then on the credit and debt side, do things like pay your bills on time I don't max out those credit cards, you know, be smart with your finances. I tell people don't live like a hermit and never spend anything but do things in moderation but start with the budget.

ELAM: That's A good way to start. Check your credit score, keep watching it, might encourage to you keep on the path to having good debt numbers.

Our next question from Alexis in Georgia who writes "I'm 21 years old and had problems with identity theft due to a family member. How can I rebuild my credit and keep my score up in the future." This is a shame but what should she do?

LYNETTE KHALFANI-COX, WRITER, WALLETPOP.COM: It is unfortunate but common. In fact 50 percent of victims of identity theft say it was by someone they know, family member, caregiver, co-worker, it makes sense is. They have access to your information.

She should file a dispute letter with her credit reporting agencies and police report with it so they can say this is what happened with some of the bad credit and she is young, she has time to rebuild her credit f she doesn't have any loans right now, she can get a secured credit card and if she does have loans, make sure pay on time, pay more than the minimum and like Lynette was saying, don't rack up debt and she can be on her way to repealing the credit.

ELAM: Like the song, time is on her side.

COX: Yes.

ELAM: Thank you so much. If you have something you need to find out, get a personal finance question answered, send us an e-mail any time to CNNhelpdesk@CNN.com.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: There is one word to describe the Obama administration's words and actions regarding Libya and that word is "ambiguous." I want to play you -- this is a piece of sound from the president. This was just yesterday when he was speaking in Santiago, Chile, he is trying to separate, you will hear this he is separating the goal of the military coalition from the ultimate goal of the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Our military action is in support of an international mandate from the Security Council that specifically focuses on the humanitarian threat posed by Colonel Gadhafi to his people.

I also have stated that it is U.S. policy that Gadhafi needs to go.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: OK. So, you heard that. I know senior political analyst Gloria Borger heard that and we talked about it yesterday. We talked about it in Washington. It is now officially posted on CNN.com. You ask, actually, a bunch of really, really good questions. I tweeted this one out. A lot of people said it was a great question. The question was "If the president has done the right thing, why does it feel as if something is wrong?" Gloria, is something wrong? Does the president have a problem here?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, we are living in a different world, and I think, in the end, we may have to decide that we have to learn to live with ambiguity.

And it is interesting, because the president of the United States was saying it is American policy that we want Gadhafi go. Fine. But if he was going to get an international coalition like we got, including the Arab League, United Nations Security Council, their plan has to be more ambiguous in order to get everyone to agree to it.

Our American political system dictates specifics, plans, timetables, when are we going to get in, when are we going to get out? Congress wants to know. But these international coalitions, I think we are just learning this as we go along here, are just sort of messy, complicated, sometimes confusing.

BALDWIN: Right.

BORGER: It is the new world.

BALDWIN: Maybe -- we were talking this morning in our editorial meeting, just Americans, we want to know, we want to know how, because that is how we are.

BORGER: We do.

BALDWIN: In this ambiguity, do we know what the real goal is to help save Libyan civilians from this bloodbath or is it a regime change, Gloria?

BORGER: We do. The president has stated, as have other heads of state that we can't stand idly by while a murderous thug kills his own people. And I think you got to a point in Benghazi where there was a sense that you were reaching a turning point there, where Gadhafi could actually win. And so it is a humanitarian effort.

Now the question that I have is, how do you know when a humanitarian effort has succeeded if Gadhafi still remains in power

BALDWIN: It's an excellent question. What is the answer?

BORGER: Well, and the answer --

(LAUGHTER)

BORGER: And the answer -- asked and answered -- and the answer, as I talk to experts in this, is essentially this is two phases.

First of all, you try and save the people of Benghazi, for example, on your humanitarian mission. And then what you do is, you tighten the noose on -- on Gadhafi, and you isolate him to such a degree that the people who are now with him are going to be against him. And then the rebels can emerge victorious. So, essentially, it is a two-pronged plan, but it is complicated. It is not easy.

BALDWIN: And I think part of the complication is people waiting and watching for Arab nations to take part, right? And so I was -- I don't know if you any heard my conversation with Les Gelb, who was a former assistant secretary of state.

BORGER: Yes.

BALDWIN: He said, look, prior to number one, President Obama, you have to push the Arabs to be involved. But how do you do that, Gloria?

BORGER: Well, I think when the Arab league signed on initially, the president, the administration thought that that was a huge victory. And there's been some sort of confusion as to what they signed on to and as to what they didn't sign on to.

There are some people who, like Richard Haass of the Council of Foreign Relations, who have criticized the president for being too concerned with the process of getting everybody in the room to agree, rather than what the policy will entail.

It was a very difficult dance not to be underestimated, not only with the Arab League, but also with the United Nations Security Council. I think the question as we go forward is, OK, if the U.S. has essentially blown the doors off the hinges in the house, then what's the role of NATO now? What's the role of our European allies as they try and finish this mission?

BALDWIN: OK. Well, we are going to unfortunately have to leave it on the question. You ask a lot of them.

BORGER: Always.

BALDWIN: Anyone can to go to CNN.com/opinion for Gloria's column.

Gloria, as always, my thanks to you.

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: Sure.