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Radiation in the Wind; No Response From Air Traffic Control; Doctor: 100-Plus Killed in Misrata This Week

Aired March 24, 2011 - 13:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: You don't have to know a millisievert from a mole hill to be concerned about Japanese radiation traveling the winds to America. The source, if you need to be reminded, is the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, which you can see here behind me on that screen. It's overheated to the point of multiple explosions and fires since the earthquake and tsunami two weeks ago tomorrow.

Two positive developments today, radiation levels in Tokyo tap water fell back to levels that don't pose a threat to anybody, and reactor number 3 stopped smoking, allowing workers to get back on site. Two workers had to be hospitalized when they stepped in a radioactive puddle.

Some 5,000 miles away, EPA monitors have picked up miniscule traces of airborne radiation in some states. We have them highlighted for you here. Those include Hawaii, California, Oregon, Washington State and Colorado.

They're being traced back to that Daiichi plant. But in every case, the feds say the levels are -- and I want to quote here -- "thousands of times below any conservative level of concern."

And we can't say this often enough. Radioactivity is everywhere, and all of us are exposed to it every day. It comes from space, and we're exposed to it on airplanes.

It comes from the Earth. It's in the ocean. It's in our meat, our vegetables. And yes, even in our beer. The issue isn't avoidance. It's amounts.

CNN's Ted Rowlands is tracking those in Los Angeles.

Ted, there are really two issues here that we're talking about, the facts and the fear. Let's start with the facts.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the facts are, as you already talked about, Randi, is basic, that Japan is 5,000 miles away from the West Coast of the United States, 5,400 miles away. And the experts say that there is no harm from the radioactive levels that have been detected on the West Coast and in Hawaii. They say that these levels are so small, in fact, they're saying that the levels they're seeing here in Los Angeles are 100,000 times less than you would be exposed to in a transatlantic flight, a roundtrip flight. Clearly, the experts are all in agreement that there is no danger to humans at this point. However, we stood on a street corner here in Los Angeles for about an hour, and it didn't take us long at all to find people that were read up on this issue but were still very concerned about radiation exposure here in L.A.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course there's concern. I mean, what happens halfway around the world will eventually affect us, as well as the rest of the world.

ROWLANDS: What about all the experts saying no big deal?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think all the experts are saying that, but there's got to be some concern with radiation escaping. There's concern in Japan, and eventually there will be concern here too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The government has a vested interest in saying no. And who knows? They're finding it in the food over there, they're finding it in the water, they're finding it in some people. So obviously it has -- there's some problem with it, but whether it's going to come here or not, who knows?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Obviously, we don't have the anything to compare it to. So it's all a guessing game. And I think anyone that says that they know is guessing.

ROWLANDS: So you're concerned?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm very concerned.

ROBERT DEMAYO, PSYCHOLOGIST, PEPPERDINE UNIVERSITY: People are much more likely to trust in their basic sense of fear, their anxiety about this. The people issuing advisories don't do anything, don't worry about it, many people view as not credible, not believable. And people believe that the cost of not doing anything is greater than the cost of doing something.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROWLANDS: And Randi, the theme that we detected with most people that had concerns was a trust issue. They just don't trust experts, don't trust governments, and they don't think that they're getting the whole story. They don't trust the media, as well -- Randi.

KAYE: So, Ted, for those who are scared, are they doing anything about it?

ROWLANDS: Nobody that we talked to had done anything. But, in California, specifically, and the West Coast, the potassium iodide pills -- in liquid form also -- have been sold out at stores across the West Coast.

So, people are doing things about it and getting the potassium iodide has a precaution. The people we talked to said they were concerned, but nobody said they had done anything specific to prepare themselves for some sort of radiation exposure. But they are legitimately concerned, and these are not ding-a-lings. These are people that have researched it, and they just have a fear.

KAYE: Yes, it certainly sounds like they do.

All right. Ted Rowlands, watching the radiation there in California.

Meanwhile, Chad Myers has been tracking it as it's been moving across the world, really, from Japan to the states.

How does this travel?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: It travels on dust. It travels by itself. It travels on a water molecule. It travels in many ways, even in a rain cloud.

And here's Japan. And these are all low-pressure centers. And you can see the way they march across the Pacific.

And yes, they are coming to the western coast of the United States. And there could be radiation in some of those droplets. And eventually, if it rains out, it could take that radiation from above and drop it down on the U.S. It could happen.

Now, saying this has been going on for many days, if it would be coming it would be already here in many spots. Go to this graphic. It's on my Twitter page, but here it is.

It's an EPA radar net. Monitor anywhere you want.

Let's go right to L.A., because that's where Ted was. So I'll just go here.

KAYE: OK.

MYERS: I'm going to grab a red dot.

KAYE: See if the people there really should be concerned.

MYERS: Correct. And somewhere of concern would be somewhere up in here.

This is the Japanese quake. Here's the day. Here's March the 12th, 13th, and here we are, all the way up to March 25th.

Here's what background radiation looks like when the sun comes out, whatever. Up and down, up and down. A little bit of a spike here, a spike here, and another one there on the 22nd.

I don't know what those spikes are. This map does not show what the spikes are. But they found -- it's kind of like a DNA. There's almost a DNA of what's being released at that site. And did it make its way all the way over to the U.S.? That's how we know that it's not just a sunshine particle that's coming down.

KAYE: Right. So those spikes didn't appear dangerous.

MYERS: They were not dangerous.

KAYE: Right.

MYERS: Let's go to Denver. On a regular day in Denver, there are spikes because it's a mile-high city, not as much atmosphere below you to block that out. So here's before, and it almost looks like after.

KAYE: It went down.

MYERS: It went down a little bit, and then there's that one little -- one little spike there on the 21st and the 22nd. And so, yes, radiation is making its way to the U.S.

The recorded levels have been thousands of times below any conservative level of concern. That's the big --

KAYE: I know, and we continue to say that, but people are still concerned.

MYERS: There's radiation everywhere. It happens -- there is more radiation, actually, in the Capitol of the United States from the stones that they used than coming out of most nuclear power plants in America.

KAYE: Well, that's comforting, I think. Not.

MYERS: I don't know where that came from, but that's just out there.

KAYE: All right. Well, that's a good little fact to know, sort of.

MYERS: I know.

KAYE: All right, Chad. We'll leave it there on that note.

MYERS: All right.

KAYE: Thank you.

Some of the other big stories that we're following today.

We're expecting a decision shortly on whether NATO will take over operations in Libya. NATO ambassadors are meeting right now in Brussels.

Meantime, the French military says one of its fighter jets has destroyed a Libyan plane at an airbase near Misrata. Initial reports said the plane was shot down from the sky, but the French Defense Ministry now says it was struck by an air-to-ground missile as it is landed after violating the U.N.'s no-fly zone.

After days of fierce fighting, mounting casualties. The opposition is reportedly clinging to control in Misrata, but with most water service cut off, and medical supplies running low, aid groups are afraid it's the beginning of the humanitarian crisis there.

Protesters in Syria say there's been no letup in the violent suppression of pro-democracy demonstrations. This is all going on in the southern town of Daraa, where security forces are accused of repeatedly firing on civilians. According to human rights activists, at least 34 people have been killed in just the last two days.

This video was posted online yesterday and is said to show some of that violence. CNN cannot independently confirm that. Just a little while ago, a government minister said President Bashar al-Assad opposes the use of force against demonstrators but realizes mistakes could have been made.

Pilots left to fend for themselves when trying to land at Reagan National Airport? This happened only a few miles from the White House. Is an incident like this a threat to your national security? We're going to talk about it.

And earlier in the show we asked you to share your thoughts on a new app for smartphones called Color. It's a new kind of social network that allows users of smartphones to instantly share photos, videos and texts with anyone that happens to be around them, including strangers who also have the app. Some are calling it virtual voyeurism.

If you want to comment on this, go to our blog, CNN.com/Ali, to share your thoughts. You can also post on Ali's Facebook and Twitter accounts, and on my Twitter account as well. I'd love to hear from you @RandiKayeCNN.

We'll share your thoughts and your comments in less than 10 minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Welcome back.

I want to show you something. You probably see it there behind me. That is a live picture of FlightTracker.com. Those are all of the planes that are in the air right now.

Imagine what would happen if they had to land without the help of air traffic control. Well, that actually did happen to two planes at Washington's Reagan National Airport shortly after midnight Wednesday.

The pilots were unable to reach anyone in the air traffic control tower. We learned just hours ago that the air traffic controller on duty at the time has been suspended.

The controller's failure to respond caused one of the pilots to reach out to a regional air traffic control facility. Take a listen. (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: American 1900, so you're aware, the tower is apparently not manned. We've made a few phone calls. Nobody's answering.

So two airplanes went in, in the past 10, 15 minutes. So you can expect to go in as an uncontrolled airport.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there a reason it's not manned?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I'm going to take a guess and say that the controller got locked out. I've heard of this happening before.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the first time I've heard it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Fortunately, it's not very often. But, yes, it happened about a year ago. But I'm not sure that's what happened now, but anyway, there's nobody in the tower.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's interesting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KAYE: Both planes did end up landing without incident. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood has now ordered the FAA to schedule two people on that overnight shift. He said, "It is not acceptable to have just one controller in the tower managing air traffic in this critical airspace. I have also asked FAA administrator Randy Babbitt to study staffing levels at other airports around the country."

Former National Transportation Safety Board managing director Peter Goelz joins me now to talk about this.

Peter, I know you believe this is outrageous. A lot of people do.

It happened in Washington, D.C. The planes, carrying 165 passengers and crew. The airport, only a couple of miles or so from the White House.

So what should we think at this point? How concerned should we be about national security?

PETER GOELZ, FMR. NTSB MANAGING DIRECTOR: Well, I don't think it's an indictment of national security, but it certainly raises red flags about the procedures that the FAA has in place should this kind of event occur. And clearly, the procedures broke down, not only in the tower, where the controller, for whatever reason -- maybe it was a health problem -- but for whatever reason was, not at his station for 20 or 25 minutes.

And then, secondly, for the incoming planes, you know, they wanted to land, get their passengers to their -- the right location. But should they have been allowed to land there with no information about what was going on in the tower? I think there's a couple of important questions to be answered.

KAYE: And you heard that conversation. He reached out to this air traffic -- the regional air traffic.

Do you think that was handled correctly?

GOELZ: Well, sure. You go to the -- to what's called the TRACON center. They are the controllers that hand you off during the final miles to the tower. Those are the ones you would go to, and they apparently did a good job of getting them in.

Now, of course, I'd go to the TRACON and say is this really the best policy? Maybe they should have been diverted to Dulles or to BWI. That would have been some inconvenience, but not a significant amount.

KAYE: Yes.

And Ray LaHood is ordering this second air traffic controller on duty. The air traffic controller involved, as we said, has been suspended.

Is this enough for you?

GOELZ: Well, I think let's see what the investigation turns up. I don't think there's any way that we're not going to have a full and complete and candid investigation of this event given the amount of coverage it's gotten. So let's see what the explanation is, and then I think, Randy Babbitt, he's a pilot himself. I am sure is he upset about this. He's going to take the right action.

KAYE: Yes, we don't know certainly if the guy was locked out, if the controller was locked out, as one of the pilots might have thought, or if he had fallen asleep.

GOELZ: Right.

KAYE: We have no idea. So you're right, the investigation continues.

What about frequent flyers though? How concerned should they be? I mean, is this something that we should worry about?

GOELZ: No. Flyers, whether they know it or not it, you know, commercial aircraft land at unmanned airports as a regular part of their procedures each day. There's well over 125 unmanned tower airports where commercial flights land.

Pilots are -- the pilots know how to do this. There are procedures. So it's perfectly safe.

KAYE: All right. Peter Goelz, really appreciate your insight on this today. It's such an important topic with all those flyers out there. I'm sure they all want to know more about it.

Appreciate it. Thank you.

GOELZ: Thank you, Randi.

KAYE: Earlier in the show, we asked for your thoughts on a new app for smartphones. It's called Color. It's a new kind of social network that allows users of smartphones to instantly share photos, videos and texts with anyone who just happens to be around them, including strangers who also have that same app.

Well, we got a lot of feedback on this.

Janet says, "Sounds like a great app in lots of situations. As with anything, there will be those who abuse it and use it inappropriately. That shouldn't stop technology from advancing."

Mort10 wrote in that "The Color app might seem like a good idea, but the privacy concerns and negative consequences could be enormous."

And finally, Roberta thought of this: "Could you imagine what retailers could do with this app? Just think walking through a mall and your phone getting bombarded by retailers sending photos of their sales. This is not an app for me, no."

That's a pretty funny one.

All right. Well, go to our blog, CNN.com/Ali, to continue sharing your thoughts. You can also post on Ali's Facebook and Twitter accounts, and on my Twitter account, as well: @RandiKCNN.

Listen, now we want to take you to Misrata. We have a doctor who we're not identifying. He's on the phone with us from Misrata central hospital. We want to ask him about the fighting and the deaths in Misrata.

Doctor, can you tell us what you are witnessing there at this hospital?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yesterday we had heavy shelling from tanks from the Gadhafi troops. Those tanks were shelling at the hospital. We had two bombs which fall over one mosque in front of the hospital, 20 meters away from the hospital, and another bomb falling to the hotel by the hospital, even 15 or 10 meters away from the hospital.

And today, in the morning, there is -- after the air strikes of the forces, there are no tanks in Misrata city. But we have the hospital surrounded by the snipers.

Those snipers are preventing anybody to come in or out from this hospital. So we decide to evacuate the hospital and take our patients for their safety to our private clinic in the (INAUDIBLE).

(CROSSTALK)

KAYE: Can you talk about some of the fatalities there? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sorry?

KAYE: Have you witnessed fatalities there as a result of these snipers who are on these rooftops from the Gadhafi regime?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You mean how many we have, or what?

KAYE: Yes. I want to know the situation you're dealing with in terms of fatalities.

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe you hear the shooting in the background of me, the shooting from the snipers. We have 109 persons killed this week, and we have 1,300 patients injured in a month.

We are operating here in the hospital. Three patients at the same operating room without any means of any (INAUDIBLE) operating in the corridor.

Any patient who has an amputated leg or amputated hand, we just operate on him and send him home because we have no empty space for all those patients. We have run out of all narcotics, all sedation. We don't have any drugs (ph).

Since 10 days, they are stuck in the hospital and operating all the time. Over the last few days, nobody can move from the hospital because of the shelling and the snipers.

KAYE: Are the coalition air strikes -- have they helped you at all? Have they helped give you some cover?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The air strikes, when those started (INAUDIBLE) these came from (INAUDIBLE). After the forces go out, they come back for the shelling again. So we need more air strikes to prevent those murderers to come back to the city.

KAYE: All right. Doctor, we appreciate you speaking with us. We certainly hope the conditions improve for you.

Speaking with a doctor who we didn't want to identify for his own protection, speaking with us from Misrata, the central hospital there, telling us 1,300 people injured and 109 killed, and snipers on the rooftops targeting them.

All right. So, after six days of air strikes, what is the state of Gadhafi's military?

CNN Pentagon Correspondent Chris Lawrence has been following this story, and he will join us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: As we mentioned, we're expecting a decision shortly on whether NATO will take over operations in Libya. NATO ambassadors have been meeting in Brussels. Earlier today, French warplanes destroyed a Libyan combat plane that violated the no-fly zone. At the same time, coalition planes have been unable to stop Gadhafi's ground forces from attacking the rebels, especially in the cities of Misrata and Ajdabiya.

So, this all raises the question, after six days of coalition air strikes now, what is the state of the Libyan military?

CNN Pentagon Correspondent Chris Lawrence has been following this story, and he joins us for some answers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Libyan air force is grounded and Tomahawk missiles and fighter jets have virtually destroyed Moammar Gadhafi's air defense.

VICE MARSHALL GREG BAGWELL, ROYAL AIR FORCE: To the points that we can operate over his airspace with impunity --

LAWRENCE: Despite the no-fly zone, Libyan forces still have numerous mobile launchers. State TV claims they brought down an American fighter jet Monday. U.S. officials say mechanical failure caused the crash of the F-15.

The rebels have captured some weapons. Others have been destroyed. But before the war, Libya had about 500 mortars, 2,400 pieces of artillery. The ground troops, just under 2,000 tanks and armored vehicles.

And on the phone from the Mediterranean Sea, a coalition official says some of that is being used in fighting in Misrata and Ajdabiya.

REAR ADM. GERARD HUEBER, ODYSSEY DAWN TASK FORCE: Tanks, artillery, rocket launchers.

LAWRENCE (on camera): And is that outside of the major cities, Misrata, or is that -- are you noticing those being used inside the cities?

HUEBER: It is outside, and they are making incursions into the city and targeting the population centers in those cities with that equipment.

LAWRENCE (voice-over): U.S. surveillance planes have seen some attacks by elite units like the 32nd Brigade commanded by Gadhafi's own son.

HUEBER: Those forces are fully engaged in this conflict that is attacking those civilian populations.

LAWRENCE: An analyst at the National Defense University says Libya's elite troops get more money, better weapons.

DR. GAWDAT BAHGAT, NATIONAL DEFENSE UNIVERSITY: Almost every regime in the Middle East has kind of two armies. LAWRENCE: Libya's version of Iraq's Republican Guard comes from tribes loyal to Gadhafi, dedicated to protecting the regime. But at most, it's 10,000 men.

BAHGAT: That's why, to a great extent, Gadhafi depends on foreign fighters.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE: A U.S. official says though that the military still remains relatively well organized and able to effectively fight in certain parts of the country. We saw that the French shot down that Libyan jet, but that was the first plane they've really put in the air since this all started. And even that jet was 30, perhaps up to 40 years old. No match for any of the planes out there flying today -- Randi.

KAYE: And Chris, what about the reports of the coalition bombs and the air strikes killing civilians in Libya? Do you have any more information on that?

LAWRENCE: That's right. State TV in Libya has been reporting that there were civilian casualties in a suburb of Tripoli. The head of African command, the man commanding this mission right now for the U.S., General Carter Hamm, he said he's not surprised that Libyan forces have made these claims.

He said the only thing that surprised him was it took them so long to do it. But now he's not dismissing their claims outright. He's saying what he said was, we can't be sure there have been absolutely no civilian casualties, but he says what we're targeting is very, very precise.

KAYE: All right. Chris Lawrence, we'll leave it there. Thank you, Chris.

All right. Here's a question for you. What really happens when you put saltwater into a nuclear reactor to cool it down? Chad Myers is going to join me in just a moment to give us a demonstration.

It is very cool science. You are going to want to stick around for this one.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Welcome back.

I want to get back to that nuclear crisis in Japan. So today we're going to go "Off the Radar" and bring in Chad Myers.

You have a really cool demonstration --

MYERS: I do.

KAYE: -- about how the saltwater reacts inside this nuclear reactor. MYERS: Reacts badly.

KAYE: That's not good news.

When a reactor is running properly, and there are hundreds of them that are running across the world that are running properly, they run with pure distilled water. Nothing in that water except H2O. That's it. I boiled H2O in this cup. Doesn't look like it. Distilled water. It's all gone.

Then I boiled in this cup H2O with a salt mixture in it. That's what happened to the salt. It stays in the cup. When the sun hits the ocean, the water evaporates but the salt stays. There's never a salt hurricane other than because of a spray. When the sun hits saltwater, it evaporates to pure water. That pure, fresh water rains out, we have fresh water lakes.

KAYE: So, when the water evaporates out of that facility --

MYERS: When they pumped saltwater in, the steam evaporated. The steam from this went out. That was pure water. But the salt brine stayed in.

Then they pumped more saltwater in, and the steam sprayed out, and that was all pure water. And the salt brine became more concentrated. You know what a '72 Ford pickup looks like in Minneapolis after all those winters with all this on their fenders? They rust, they go away. They corrode. Corrosion is going on in here. Salt is being just -- it's tearing up all these parts of this thing.

KAYE: So, the salt is actually keeping the water away from cooling the rods?

MYERS: And if this occurs on the rod, that's an insulation. That will stop the water from cooling the rod itself and possibly even make the reactor overheat again because there are estimates there are 60 to 100,000 pounds of salt because of all the saltwater pumped in. Hopefully now they're only pumping in fresh water. We don't know that yet.

KAYE: So, it could possibly even lead to more leakage into --

MYERS: It still could get worse.

KAYE: Yes. All right, Chad. Very interesting demonstration. But not good news.

You can ad one more name to the list of possible presidential candidates. A Minnesota Republican and Tea Party favorite is ready to make a move towards the White House. The details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Thirty-three minutes past the hour. Updating the headlines and news you may have missed. In Japan, officials say tap water in Tokyo is considered safe for babies once again. New tests today show radioactive levels fell sharply from just two days ago. But the water in areas just 20 miles outside of Tokyo still considered too dangerous for infants to drink.

This is scene from inside the damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant. Workers are back today after smoke forced an evacuation on Wednesday. Three of their coworkers were exposed to unprecedented levels of radiation after stepping into radioactive water. Two of the men were hospitalized.

It's day six of air strikes in Libya. We're just receiving word that NATO is wrapping up a meeting with a possible decision -- possible -- on whether to take over military operations. The NATO secretary-general is expected to make a statement at any minute now. We'll bring that to you.

But Moammar Gadhafi and his forces are not slowing their attacks. In fact, French jets destroyed a Libyan plane in Misrata today after it violated the no-fly zone. Overall, a U.S. official says the rebels are in a better position, but Gadhafi still has the upper hand. His troops are well organizes and (INAUDIBLE).

So now, coalition forces are shifting their focus to Gadhafi's ground troops. They've bombarded pro-Gadhafi targets. But officials say his forces are still making advances in several key cities.

Congresswoman Michele Bachmann is hoping to maneuver her way from the House floor to possibly the White House. CNN has learned that the Minnesota Republican and Tea Party favorite will form a presidential exploratory committee. She plans to file papers to do that in June if not earlier.

The face of the nation is changing. The U.S. Census Bureau released some revealing numbers at a briefing just a short time ago. The census numbers show that the Hispanic population topped 50 million people, which accounts for more than half of the nation's growth in the past decade. The Asian population is growing just as fast, but there are just three times more Hispanics in the U.S. Demographers say it's part of a trend where in three decades, whites will be a minority.

At the last minute, Mark Kelly, the husband of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, has backed out of interviews with the media following a press conference with the Endeavor crew. That conference was just held in Houston about an hour ago. Kelly is set to command the mission to the international space station April 19. He has publicly said he is optimistic his wife plans to attend his launch. Giffords is currently being treated at a Houston rehab center after being shot in the head in January.

Both sides in Yemen remain fiercely defiant. Is the only outcome civil war? Find out next in "Globetrekking."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KAYE: Anti-government protesters in Syria continue to show extraordinary defiance against the iron fisted govern of President Bashar al-Assad. Thousands took to the streets of the southern city of Daraa today for the funeral of several demonstrators killed yesterday in clashes with security forces. Human rights activists say 34 people have been killed in the past two days.

Since taking over from his late father 11 years ago, Assad has created one of the most authoritarian regimes in the Arab world and shows no sign of bowing to the demonstrators' demands.

Joining me to talk about this, Michael Holmes and Hala Gorani. Good to see you both. Hala, let's start with you on Syria. This all goes back to teenagers and graffiti. This is how this whole thing started.

HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: These teenagers were arrested. Some of them detained. I think for the residents of Darra, this might have been the hay that broke the camel's back. They are frustrated with police brutality, with corruption in Syria. They started small protests. Those small protests swelled. They became bigger protests. When security forces cracked down and deaths started happening, that's when the protests grew not only in size but also in intensity in terms of the level of anger against the regime.

KAYE: So, the government there, what is their message? I mean, they seem scared that this could turn into something even bigger like we've seen in other areas.

GORANI: Well, I don't know if you can use the word scared. There does seem to be a level of concern, however, because we heard directly from the government today with a cabinet minister, close aide to Bashar al-Assad, promising reform saying the media including CNN in fact, were exaggerating the violence there, the death toll.

And so it does seem as though there is some level of concern that lets give the protesters the promise of something so that it doesn't turn into something else.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He's a guy that is perfectly happy to crack down. He doesn't have a lot to lose in that regard. Do you agree?

GORANI: Well, I do and I don't. Because on the one hand, this is not the Syria of his father where a crackdown in 1982 led to anything from between to 10 to some say 30,000 deaths among Muslim Brotherhood members who were opposing the regime. This is a different era. We have Twitter. We have Facebook.

We also have the example of other autocratic leaders who have fallen in a matter of days. And I think you can't discount that. Although he's close to Iran, he's -- he's allied himself very closely to Tehran, he's also accepted the renewed diplomatic relationship - renewed diplomatic relationship with the U.S. and with France. So, there are two sides to this, I think. KAYE: Michael, I want to ask you about the upheaval in Tunisia. Obviously, it's a key U.S. ally in the fight against al Qaeda. What's going to happen there?

HOLMES: It's very difficult to know what's going to happen there. This was, of course, the place where it all started. With the young man who had his scales (ph) taken from him by a government official.

It's an evolving situation there. It's very hard to put this in the same basket. This is one of the things we keep raising too long. You're looking at different countries with different basket of problems. There are some unifying problems, if you like: youth, unemployment, anger at corruption, which we've seen a lot of that particularly in Yemen as well, and in Syria. But each country is different. Each outcome is likely to be different, as well. There's certainly a lot at stake right across that area.

GORANI: But I think one unifying thread here is the military is usually the one entity, the one institution that, depending on which way -- which side it falls on decides the future of the protest group.

HOLMES: Which is where it gets complicated in a place like Yemen where basically half the military leadership has gone to the opposition. The other half staying with the government. You've got really a standoff there. Although it's hard to see Saleh surviving this.

GORANI: It's hard. And he's promised to leave anyway in a matter of a year. It's just a question of when, not if he goes.

Syria is different. The leadership is a religious minority. They've named heads of major institutions like the military from their own religious ethnic minority. So, they have a lot to lose if they are confronted.

KAYE: Sure. And I just want to ask you about Libya. There's still -- we have the no-fly zone. The but situation really appears to be heading for a bit of a stalemate. It seems as though the coalition forces are going to walk away with a stalemate as their victory.

HOLMES: That was always the great fear of this was what was the end game going to be. If Gadhafi stops still and abided by a cease- fire, then what are you no flying and what happens then with the rebels? If the rebels then advance, does the cease-fire apply to them as well? And when does supporting or protecting civilians became taking sides in a revolt?

KAYE: Yes. And it really doesn't seem to be ending. We just spoke with the doctor from central hospital there in Misrata, who's talking about the forces firing from rooftops.

(CROSSTALK)

HOLMES: You can bomb tanks outside the city. You can't inside.

GORANI: Yes. You can't bomb a sniper surrounding a hospital in central Misrata. That you can't do from the air.

HOLMES: And that was never going to be a possibility when they introduced this. Yes, you can keep planes on the ground, you can hit armored columns. You can interrupt supply lines. You can't do anything once it's an urban situation.

I think the big hope now is that they can cut the supply lines to the point where he runs out of ammunition and fuel at some point.

KAYE: Right. Seems as though there's a limit to this humanitarian effort.

All right, guys. We'll leave it there. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Who decides when America goes to war? It's not quite as simple as you may have learned in civics class. After a break, we'll look at some recent wars and conflicts and the political conflicts that they caused.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: President Obama's come under some criticism for how he's handled the crisis in Libya, specifically how he got U.S. forces involved in it. The president committed to an early leadership role in the coalition mission against Libya after the U.N. Security Council passed a resolution last week. But some members of Congress are fighting mad he acted without their say so or even much input from Capitol Hill. Some even accused him of violating the Constitution, which says Congress shall declare war.

Thing is, Congress has only issued declarations of war five times, the last being World War II. Clearly, we've been in some skirmishes since then. Let's break this down a little bit for you. In this country's history, presidents have sent troops abroad more than 200 times. More than half of those without prior authorization from Congress.

The most glaring example, Korea, when President Truman deployed U.S. forces into a three-year police action. Then Vietnam, where U.S. involvement escalated in the early 60s, no declaration of war there. And no congressional OK to the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution in 1964.

In the wake of those conflicts, the War Powers Resolution of 1973 was meant to limit the commander in chief's authority over his troops, but presidents have basically ignored it ever since because of questions about its constitutionality.

So, back to Libya. The White House's basic message here, we don't need congressional approval because there's no invasion, no ground troops, just a very limited military action. Expect to hear more about this next week at a Libya hearing called by the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Secretary of State's Hillary Clinton has already been invited to chat about the administration's decisions.

The government is the spending millions going after athletes who lie to them. Is this a good use of taxpayer dollars? The "Stream Team" will tackle that will topic next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: The government is spending millions of your tax dollars trying to prove that some athletes are liars and steroid cheats. Barry Bonds is currently involved in a perjury trial where he is charged with four counts of lying to a federal grand jury.

But here's the thing, investigators seldom devote this much time and resource to a perjury case. This is because they are so hard to prove and usually there are more serious crimes on their desks.

And to make it all the more confusing, there is a similarly expensive perjury trial coming up for Roger Clemens, but nothing for Rafael Palmeiro. You may remember, Palmeiro is the guy who flunked a drug test shortly after swearing to Congress that he never took steroids.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

RAFAEL PALMEIRO, FORMER BASEBALL PLAYER: I am here to make it very clear I have never intentionally used steroids. Never, ever, period.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KAYE: That's pretty much the Bonds defense, and prosecutors are taking him to trial. There is also the money spent on the probe of cyclist Lance Armstrong, who has not been charged. So, the question for today's Stream Team is, are these trials worth it or are they a waste of tax dollars? Pete Dominick is the host of "Stand Up with Pete Dominick" on Sirius XM. Lisa Bloom is with us as well. She's an attorney.

Pete, let's start with you. Do you think these trials are a waste of taxpayer money?

PETE DOMINICK, HOST, "STAND UP WITH PETE DOMINICK": Let me speak with a resounding -- and speak for all of America when I say -- no, it's easy. It's a slam-dunk, Randi. If this were me or you or Lisa or anybody watching, this would have been done a long time ago.

The only way I think we should investigate a trial -- a player like this is if he plays for the Red Sox. Obviously, I'm joking, but seriously, Barry Bonds, I mean he's -- perjury is a serious offense. Why don't we look into people who really ruin, maybe, the world. The global economy, investment bankers on Wall Street, maybe generals who's covered up Pat Tillman or you know, some oil executive who ruined the Gulf of Mexico.

That's when Americans want to see justice. But they can pay hefty fines or their companies can, and they get away with it, Randi.

KAYE: So, Lisa, what's your take on this? Why would a prosecutor go after a charge like perjury on this? LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY, THE BLOOM FIRM: Randi, the problem is we have crime labs across the country that don't have the money to investigate rape kits, to do DNA testing that could exonerate people on death row. We have scarce resources in the system. And given that, do we really want to go after people for lying to authorities?

I mean, as an attorney, I assume that everybody in a trial is lying, including my own client, God forbid. But this is just the reality. It's not a good thing, but it's what happens. Do we want to spend our scarce judicial resources going after these guys -- not for taking the drugs, which is a bad drug - but simply for lying to authorities about it? I say no, it's a waste of money.

KAYE: And some are actually accusing the lead investigator, Jeff Nivitsky, of turning the investigations of Bonds and Armstrong, into a personal vendetta, Lisa.

DOMINICK: It's hard to think that --

BLOOM: Every -- go ahead.

DOMINICK: Well, I was just going to say it's hard to think that's not the case. I agree with Lisa. If you're going to use federal taxpayer money to make an example of somebody, you shouldn't make an example of someone who pumped drugs in their bodies so they could hit a little ball with a piece of wood. You make an example of somebody who stole from the world, from pensions. You should make an example of somebody who polluted the environment. That will work. And that's effective. People would agree more on that.

KAYE: Lisa, you want to respond to that?

BLOOM: Well, I disagree. I think that is cheating. If you're taking illegal drugs and you get more home runs than anybody else, that's cheating because the players who aren't doing that can't compete. So, I think that's wrong. But let's let the leagues -

(CROSSTALK)

BLOOM: -- not the federal courts.

KAYE: Pete, you're saying what?

DOMINICK: But why should the federal government get involved with what happens in baseball? That's all.

KAYE: Why do you think we're having trials for Bonds and Clemens but not Palmeiro, as well, Pete?

DOMINICK: Well, because Palmeiro's autograph on a baseball is not nearly worth as much money. I'm not sure. That's a great question. I'd like to hear the answer to that to the prosecutors. They should answer that.

KAYE: Lisa, if you were Bonds' lawyer, would you have even let him go to trial at this point? BLOOM: I don't understand why he went before the grand jury to begin with. Ordinarily a defendant would not go speak in front of the grand jury precisely for this reason. Because look, there's nothing that law enforcement thinks is a worse crime than lying to law enforcement. So, if you go in and talk to a prosecutor, you go before a grand jury, you'd better tell the truth because that's going to be considered a worse crime than whatever you're there to talk about in the first place. So, I would not have let him go to the grand jury.

And now unfortunately, he's at trial. The evidence against him may be pretty good. He may be in some trouble here, and his best solution may be to plea bargain this thing.

KAYE: All right. Pete, Lisa, we'll have to leave it there. Pete, you're shaking your head. Sorry you have to keep that one to yourself.

All right, guys. Thank you.

BLOOM: Thank you.

KAYE: Should the whole school have to work around one child's allergy? One school says yes, and a lot of parents are not too happy about that. My "XYZ" is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Time now for the "XYZ."

For months we've been watching protests throughout the Middle East and North Africa. And here at home, we saw massive protests in Wisconsin over the budget. But a protest in Florida has a lot of us shaking our heads. Parents and students are protesting what they consider special treatment of a first-grader in Edgewater, Florida. Treatment the school says she needs to deal with a life-threatening peanut allergy.

Take a look at this. The parents protesting want the six-year- old girl removed from the classroom and home schooled rather than deal with new rules to protect her from peanuts. But the Velutia County School District says her peanut allergy is considered so severe it's considered a disability under the Americans With Disabilities Act, and federal law requires them to make some accommodations.

What students are being asked to do leave their lunch outside the classroom, wash their hands before entering the class in the morning and then again after lunch. They had been asked to rinse out mouths, too, but the school's backed off that.

Some frustrated parents are saying their kids are being asked to change their lives because of one little girl, and that one student is setting the agenda for the whole school. Oh, they're also saying the school is wasting valuable education time and taking away their rights.

Really? This is a girl with a life-threatening allergy. What if it was another condition? A disability is a disability. And doesn't every child have a right to education? And speaking of education, what are those parents who are protesting teaching their children about accepting others and treating everyone with a disability with equal respect?

That will do it for me. NEWSROOM continues now with Joe Johns in today for Brooke Baldwin.