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The War for Misrata/Trace Radiation Found in U.S. Milk/Severe Weather Rakes Florida

Aired March 31, 2011 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: And we've been watching some severe weather which his erupting throughout the Florida area. Chad Myers joins us now to bring us up to date on that.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, storms rolled through Tampa. We had tornado damage near Largo, and then south of Tampa, really south of Ybor City, just north of McDill and then kind of sliding of to the east. And as it slid through, it produced some very big damage near the Lakeland County Airport. Here's the Lakeland airport. There was an air show going on, the Sun and Fun Air Show. Seven people at a time were under some kind of -- what we thought was a building, now it appears only a tent. But seven people were, in fact, injured as that tent did get blown around in the wind. That storm has now moved well off shore and away from the coast, but there's still more weather coming on shore to the southwest part of Florida for the rest of the day.

KAYE: Wow. So people there, take cover.

MYERS: Absolutely.

KAYE: All right. Thank you, Chad.

MYERS: Sure.

KAYE: And right now, we want to show you a live picture of Capitol Hill. Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Joint Chiefs Chairman Admiral Mike Mullen will testify on the Libya conflict before the Senate Armed Services Committee in just a few minutes from now.

No American boots on Libyan ground, but U.S. covert agents on the case. The air war is in the hands of NATO, which draws the line at arming Libyan rebels. Training those rebels a big job the Pentagon doesn't want. Big developments in the campaign now known as Operation Unified Protector.

And I haven't even mentioned the defector, Moussa Koussa, Libyan foreign minister, former head of intelligence, now unexpectedly retired somewhere in Britain. The Brits say showed up on his own and announced he was quitting the regime he'd been part of for decades. The regime says Koussa was allowed to leave for health reasons, but he was, they say, expected back.

It's a morale boost, if nothing else, for opposition forces who once again are trying to regroup after a bold advance and quick retreat in the east. Here's the latest snapshot. If you take a look here, the towns in green are those that are in control by Gadhafi's forces, and then the red ones, those are where the rebel forces are. You have Benghazi, which is the rebel stronghold, Ajdabiya, which is also an area where we've seen a lot of conflict. And then those in yellow, Misrata and Brega right here -- that's the oil port -- those are sort of conflicted. It's unclear really who is in control of the towns that are in yellow there. Best we can tell at the moment, the front lies somewhere between Ajdabiya and al Brega.

As recently as Monday, the rebels were on the doorstep of Sirte, Moammar Gadhafi's home town. Clearly, they need help, but the U.S. defense secretary says training them shouldn't be America's responsibility. Robert Gates, as I mentioned, is on Capitol Hill amid new revelations of a stepped-up CIA presence in the Libyan turmoil. Here's a bit of what he told the House Armed Services Committee today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT GATES, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I can't speak to any CIA activities, but I will tell you that the president has been quite clear that in terms of the United States military, there will be no boots on the ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: And now I want to show you a Libyan city that's far from rebel territory, but a battleground in every sense, Misrata. That's the city right there, not too far from Tripoli, somewhere between Sirte and Tripoli. For weeks, this city has been under siege from government tanks, artillery, even snipers.

And independent reporting has been all but impossible. But CNN's Frederik Pleitgen managed to enter Misrata yesterday, and you need to see what he found. Fred joins us now from a ship off the Libyan coast. Fred, tell us what you saw in Misrata.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Randi. Yes, that's, of course, because we're now having to leave Misrata after having been able to see the scene on the ground there. We're out with the ship that brought aid into the port of Misrata, and that aid is, indeed, very badly needed.

We do have a lot of battles going on there in the city. As you noted on that chart before, the city still very much contested territory. Gadhafi forces hold some with some heavy weapons. The opposition holds some others. The humanitarian situation in town is very, very dire. Take a look what we saw when we went into this town.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Weeks of urban combat have taken their toll on Misrata -- badly damaged buildings, streets littered with wreckage. Libya's third largest city, the final opposition stronghold in the west, is under siege by pro-Gadhafi forces.

(on camera): All right, so we're extremely close to the front line right now. We're with a couple of the fighters from the opposition forces. And this is in downtown Misrata. There's a lot of the destruction everywhere. Most of the buildings here have some sort of damage to them, pockmarks. There's a lot of destroyed cars in the streets, as well. And we can also see that the people that we're with, the fighters we're with, are very, very tense at this moment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go! Let's go!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait, wait, wait!

PLEITGEN (voice-over): A celebration on a destroyed armored vehicle a step too far for pro-Gadhafi forces nearby, and the scene turns ugly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fire! Fire! Fire!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As you see, that all is destroyed is from Gadhafi's forces. Building, gas station, schools, restaurants, police station, even fire station, they are destroyed.

PLEITGEN: Most residents have fled downtown Misrata as pro- Gadhafi forces have positioned snipers on tall buildings and used tanks and artillery in the city center. The anti-Gadhafi fighters, badly outgunned, fight back with the few weapons they have. They provided us with this video, saying it shows a man disabling a battle tank with a rocket-propelled grenade.

Those civilians still left in Misrata are suffering. Twelve- year-old Muhammad (ph) and his 15-year-old brother were wounded when mortars hit their parents' home. Muhammad lost several fingers on his left hand and his whole right hand.

Their father swears revenge. Gadhafi should be killed, he says. He's not a human and he should be killed. But for now, the medical staff at one of the few functioning hospitals are struggling to keep many of the wounded alive. They lack even the basics -- anesthetics, operating tools and space. Some patients must stay in the parking lot. The emergency room is in a tent in front of the building.

DR. ALI ABDALLAH, SURGEON: We live here now. All the doctors and medical staff, they live here now.

PLEITGEN: And they won't leave any time soon, as opposition fighters struggle to hold onto this besieged town and forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi continue to pound what not long ago was one of Libya's most prosperous places.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: And Fred, we hear that they need more air strikes. They need help in Misrata. They need medical supplies to treat the wounded. Is there any sign of help coming from anywhere?

PLEITGEN: Well, certainly, the opposition fighters, Randi, were very thrilled about the air strikes when they happened. Now, one of the big problems, however, that the coalition obviously has in that town is that Gadhafi has moved a lot of his tanks and heavy armor into residential areas. So it's very, very difficult for the coalition to strike those tanks and other sort of heavy equipment that Gadhafi has there.

I had some opposition fighters telling me they wished that the coalition would take more risks and strike more of these vehicles. They say, in many cases, they just sort of do flights overhead to monitor the situation.

Now, the humanitarian situation, I would say, is probably the most difficult one. There are barely any supplies getting in. In fact, the ship that we are on right now is one of the very few that was able to bring medical supplies and food into that place. There are people who are suffering hunger in those areas, refugees who have had to leave their houses, from people from other countries who have fled their homes in Tripoli who are now looking to get back to countries like Mali, Ghana and other countries in Africa.

So certainly, the humanitarian situation is difficult. And at this point, aid groups simply can't get in. They can't put ships into the port of Misrata because the situation is so unsafe. There was one Turkish aid ship that was supposed to come in a couple days of ago. That still hasn't gone in simply because the situation is so uncertain and the terrain is so contested, Randi.

KAYE: All right, our Fred Pleitgen for us off the coast of Misrata. Fred, be safe. Thank you.

And now we want to take a live picture where we are told that the live Senate committee hearing is back under way on Capitol Hill. There you see Senator John Kerry. Many of them are grilling Defense Secretary Robert Gates this afternoon, as well as Admiral Mike Mullen. They want to know a little bit more about the situation in Libya, what exactly it's going to cost the United States, how long the United States will be there, and really, why the United States is there. So we will continue to watch this live picture on Capitol Hill.

And now back to Washington, where it's still much easier to spend money than cut back. With little more than a week left in the latest stopgap spending bill, Republicans and Democrats are said to be making good progress on a plan to fund the government through the end of the fiscal year. That is six months. Fiscal 2011 started last October.

At issue is how to find something in the neighborhood of $33 billion in savings. That's a lot less than House Republicans were pushing for, a lot more than Senate Democrats were offering. Vice President Biden was on the Hill last night. Tea Party Patriots are there today, reminding the Republicans they helped elect last fall that $33 billion isn't their idea of fiscal restraint.

After this the fight is over, attention turns to fiscal 2012 and a mandatory yet hugely unpopular hike in the U.S. debt ceiling. We'll keep you posted on that. The list of states pushing to limit collective bargaining rights of public workers just got longer. New Hampshire is the latest state to take such measures. Union activists and employees are protesting at the capitol today. They are outraged after the statehouse approved a measure Wednesday that unions say cripples their ability to negotiate fair terms for state workers. The change would essentially force public employees to agree to wage and benefit cuts to help make up for the state's budget shortfall. Republicans say if the unions fail to make concessions, the state will have to lay off 350 people.

Low levels of radiation found in U.S. milk, but how does it compare to other common radiation sources like, say, flying on an airplane maybe? That is the question. We'll put it to an expert right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Traces of radiation have turned up in milk in California and Washington state, but federal officials say the milk poses no health risks because the radiation levels are 5,000 times lower than the limit set by the Food and Drug Administration.

Joining me now to talk about this is Cham Dallas. He's led multiple expeditions into the most highly contaminated radiation areas of the world.

So of course, I want to ask you, if the government's saying it's safe, should we believe the government?

CHAM DALLAS, INST. FOR HEALTH MGMT. AND MASS DESTRUCTION DEFENSE: We can believe the United States government in this. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission is really good. They've been at this a long time. I still am wondering if some of the data we're getting out of the Japanese government I can accept at face value sometimes. Particularly problematic is the fact that we're not getting information out of them. But if the United States government tells me this, I'm very confident in it.

KAYE: And you're OK with this because you know that we get radiation from all kinds of things, right, even from eating a banana, a tiny little bit of radiation, but also from airplanes.

DALLAS: Yes, radiation with is us every day, tiny, tiny amounts of radiation. Every time you go over the ocean -- I'm going to Japan next week connected with this nuclear disaster there -- or potential nuclear disaster. And I'm going to get some radiation over there. In fact, when I used to go to Chernobyl years ago -- I went into -- I had led 12 expeditions into the most highly contaminated areas there -- there were a number of those expeditions where I got more radiation on the plane going over the ocean than I did when I was there at Chernobyl.

KAYE: And correct me if I'm wrong, but getting back to the milk, I think you told me that at Chernobyl, it was in the milk, as well.

DALLAS: Yes, it was. KAYE: And how did they handle that?

DALLAS: Well, there was significant levels in the milk at Chernobyl because they got...

KAYE: Not like this.

DALLAS: Unlike here...

KAYE: Right. Right. Want to be clear.

DALLAS: So far.

KAYE: Right.

DALLAS: So far, the levels at Chernobyl were much, much higher than anything we've seen -- anywhere near what we've seen here in Japan but that's because it got into the air. Chernobyl, they had a complete meltdown, a fire. radioactivity went everywhere. It got on the grass. It got on the leafy vegetables. The cows got it. The milk got it, the children got it, and they got thyroid cancer.

KAYE: Right.

DALLAS: But we haven't seen anything like that here in Japan and certainly not in the United States.

KAYE: So how -- in the U.S., I mean, a lot of people are thinking Japan's pretty far away. If it's in the air, OK, but how is it getting in my milk?

DALLAS: Well, tiny little amounts can come across the ocean and get in the grass, and tiny little amounts can get in the milk. The problem here...

KAYE: Through the cows.

DALLAS: Through the cows.

KAYE: OK. Just want to be clear on the process.

DALLAS: Now, there may be some background going on from old fallout, you know, from the atomic bomb tests in the '60s, but not radioiodine. That's coming from Japan, but it's very, very small levels, very, very tiny, not an issue now. It's just that we can detect this stuff at a very low level.

KAYE: Yes. And you know, it feels like we have this conversation a lot, but we think it's important because every little -- every day, it seems like there's something else. Maybe it's the milk, maybe it's the spinach, whatever it might be. So we really appreciate you coming in (INAUDIBLE)

DALLAS: It is important. I'm glad you're covering this topic.

KAYE: Well, thank you. And we appreciate your expertise on it...

DALLAS: Thank you, Randi.

KAYE: ... always. Thanks, Cham.

Next, I'll be joined by businesswoman, TV personality and fashion icon Kimora Lee Simmons. She's here to talk about the disaster in the Japan, but also a very special project close to her heart that she's working on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: The cost of this month's catastrophic quake and tsunami in Japan could top $300 billion. That's the word today from the country's deputy finance minister. The disaster has left more than 11,000 people dead. On top of that, the country is still dealing with a damaged nuclear plant.

Like people across the globe, fashion icon and businesswoman Kimora Lee Simmons is watching the events unfold in Japan, and she joins me now live from New York. Kimora, your mother is from there. This is very close to your heart. You have friends there, as well. How has this affected you?

KIMORA LEE SIMMONS, BOUNTY SPOKESPERSON AND MOTHER OF THREE: I think that my heart absolutely goes out and I feel like every day, I -- maybe me personally, I probably don't do so well with national disaster, you know, issues like that. And no, it's very sad and I feel like it's -- it's -- it's, you know, groups of people that are instantly gone. I think that's very devastating.

But also, when I see this overall, I feel like I'm a person, I'm a part of the human, you know, community. So it's not about being Asian-American or the fact that my, you know, mom is Japanese or -- it's more about the suffering of everybody and people in general. Every day, it's something like this. And you know, you can look at other quakes and other disasters and -- I don't know. It's been -- it's been very tough. And I feel like as a community of entertainers and designers in the fashion community, a lot of people are coming together to do a lot of things in terms of sales and proceeds and raising money.

KAYE: Yes.

SIMMONS: And I've donated, and so many of my friends have, as well. And I think it's just do what you can, you know? Everybody at home can't, you know, send over a million dollars, but if you have it and you can, if you have 25 cents...

KAYE: Whatever it is. It's true.

SIMMONS: You know, they need help. Whatever it is.

KAYE: As a mother of three -- you know, whenever there's a disaster or anything tragic unfolding on television, your kids might get a glimpse of it. How have you been able to help your children understand what's happening there?

SIMMONS: Well, it's difficult for my kids. That's probably a slightly different conversation, and also knowing that they, you know, have family there and from there and will they ever get to go there. And I've been there a lot. and I feel like, I don't know, kids are different. You have to kind of protect them, I think, and the images that they see, you know, on the news. And I think it's -- you know, we have to talk to them about it and kind of explain it.

And again, I think it's a -- my kids feel like they're part of a human community. And so it's not just an Asian thing or a Japanese thing or...

KAYE: Right.

SIMMONS: ... or in any -- it happens all of the -- you know, all of time. And overall, I think we talk to our kids about, you know, everything...

KAYE: Right.

SIMMONS: ... about Pakistan, about Libya, about -- you know, it's never-ending.

KAYE: I want to ask you -- we mentioned how it's so important to give back. You're giving back. You give back plenty. But there's one project that I wanted you to tell us about today related to the schools.

SIMMONS: Yes, so I've teamed up with Bounty and we have a huge campaign, and I'm going to be going into one lucky school and designing a classroom. So it's like a springtime classroom makeover, and we're giving them a $50,000 makeover. And I'm asking everyone to please pitch in. And the easiest thing that I need you to do is go to Bounty's FaceBook page and register any school of your choice to win.

And it's very important. This is about education. This is about our children. This is about the fact that, statistically, almost 100 percent of our teachers have said children learn and thrive better in a clean environment, which is kind of obvious. So I think I'm asking everyone to do their small part to help make a difference in our children's lives, which is really our lives, you know?

KAYE: That sounds pretty cool. I mean, especially if a classroom makeover is going to be designed by you, that'll be pretty great, so...

SIMMONS: It'll be fabulous!

KAYE: One lucky school will have a very fabulous classroom. Yes. Kimora Lee Simmons, thank you so much, and appreciate all your work and...

SIMMONS: Thank you, Randi.

KAYE: ... talking with us about Japan, as well. We'll see you soon.

SIMMONS: Thank you.

KAYE: Coming up next, meteorologist Chad Myers joins us for a severe weather update on the storms hitting Florida, including those reports of tornadoes in Tampa and Mulberry. So keep it here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Been talking quite a bit today about that severe weather in Florida. Chad Myers is back to bring us up to date on the latest there with those tornadoes.

MYERS: It was a brutal day in Tampa, and all the way from when the storm that was out here in the ocean, in the Gulf of Mexico, rolled across and went right over Largo -- have some amazing pictures over Largo, near the Largo mall -- and then back into the bay just south of Tampa/St. Pete, north of McDill, and then south of Brandon and it kept on going.

And we will have pictures. I'm sure they're coming in tomorrow. They're coming in slowly because they're still having severe weather. It's hard to send teams out there...

KAYE: Yes. You know how hard it is to cover that.

MYERS: Exactly. All of a sudden, you're trying to put a 500 or 50-foot mast up in the sky...

KAYE: You don't want to do it!

MYERS: ... when lightning's coming down, the crews are going, No, no, no, we're not sending pictures back just yet.

Well, now the big weather did move off shore. That was the first batch. Now there are more storms back out here to the west that may run into Tampa/St. Pete later today. That's still with tornado watches in effect, could still be spinning. And the watch now goes all the way from Tampa all the way to south Florida. South Florida needs rain. You don't need anything rotating. You don't need any kind of severe weather like that.

KAYE: No, but they...

MYERS: Lots of rain here.

KAYE: They definitely do need rain. What's going on out in Washington? There's some flooding in the river there, right?

MYERS: We have some pictures here. Yes.

KAYE: OK. Let's take a look.

MYERS: Yes, Snoqualmie and some of the big major rivers have had a lot of rain in the past couple of days, and the flooding has just gone completely out of the banks. We've gone -- anyone -- from around Portland to around Seattle, and then all the way up into the higher elevations, where now the snow is melting in the rain. A lot of snow on the ground. Rain hits the snow, snow melts, too. That doubles the amount of runoff, and then the runoff tries to come down.

KAYE: We couldn't get those pictures, either. Probably not safe to get them, either. But we'll have those, and hopefully, the tornado pictures, as well, for tomorrow.

MYERS: That's right.

KAYE: All right, Chad. Thank you.

MYERS: Thanks, Randi.

KAYE: Appreciate it.

MYERS: OK.

KAYE: It is our second week documenting Philippe Cousteau's arctic expedition, if you're keeping track. He has set up camp at the Arctic ice base and is here with a truly fascinating look at how you cook, and well, go to the bathroom in the frozen Arctic tundra.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHILIPPE COUSTEAU, ENVIRONMENTALIST, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: This is where we all go to the bathroom. It's an unheated tent, no running water, no plumbing, just hand sanitizer, a five-gallon bucket with a little makeshift toilet seat on it. And I think that's enough said.

Behind me is the Catlin ice base. Now, it's important to note that all the human waste, food waste, trash, everything is shipped out of here. Nothing is left behind except for footprints. Now, you've pretty much seen everything that the base has to offer, but I did save probably the most important place for last.

Thank you very much, Fran.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Say when.

COUSTEAU: This looks fabulous. Go for it. Now, this is the most important place on the entire camp, arguably. And Napoleon always said that an army marches on its stomach. Well, that can also be said for an Arctic expedition. And we are very lucky, thanks to Fran's amazing cooking and culinary skills, to be able to march on this amazing food.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bon appetit.

COUSTEAU: Thank you!

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: To read Philippe Cousteau's daily expedition blogs, head to our blog at CNN.com/ali. NATO took the lead in Libya today, but there are still some big questions about the conflict here at home. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates and Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Admiral Mullen right there live, speaking on Capitol Hill. There's Defense Secretary Gates. And they're facing some tough questions there in Congress. We'll bring you much more on that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Here are some of the stories that you may have missed.

Let's start with some breaking news. Dangerous weather in Florida. You're looking at the scene from Lakeland Regional Airport where an intense storm and strong winds ripped through that area. There were initial reports that 70 people were trapped underneath a collapsed building but police now say those reports are false. People were attending the Sun and Fun Aviation fair at the airport when the storm hit and caused a tent, not a building it turns out to collapse. Several people were injured. There is widespread damage.

In the meantime, in Tampa, the National Weather Service confirms a tornado touchdown down in the Tampa Bay area where a number of homes and businesses were damaged.

A U.S. intelligence source confirms the CIA is on the ground in Libya sending additional officers into rebel strongholds. This revelation comes NATO takes command of operations in Libya today. the operatives are gathering intelligence to help guide NATO air strikes and also to work with anti-Gadhafi forces.

And White House spokesman Jay Carney says the resignation of Libya's foreign minister is a sign than Libya's government and Gadhafi's inner circle may be feeling pressure. However, Carney told reporters that quote, "We can't predict how long Libya conflict will continue."

As Gadhafi's forces being ground on Capitol Hill, U.S. lawmakers are pushing for answers at a series of congressional hearings today. Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Admiral Mike Mullen, the joint chiefs of staff chairman, are getting grilled about the strategy, cost and of course, timetable. How long are we going to be there, a lot of folks want to know. Some lawmakers are angry they weren't consulted as well before the U.S. got involved in Libya and are raising doubts over the president's exit plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT GATES, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The one thing that may make a difference in terms of how long it takes for this regime to change is the fact that we continue to degrade his military capabilities. And I think that may contribute to some cracking of the unity of his own military. But the bottom line is, no one can predict for you how long it will take.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KAYE: And this is the day that baseball fans have been waiting for. Opening day for Major League Baseball. And it's not even April. The Atlanta Braves are playing the Washington Nationals right now. This is just some practice, though, not the game. The Yankees are taking on the Detroit Tigers and the Brewers. And the Reds are also getting under way.

One day after a defiant speech, Syria's hard-line president changes his tune on lifting the state of emergency. Just rhetoric or a signal of real change? We've got answers for you in "Globe Trekking," coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: We've been talking a lot today about the town of Misrata, which is in Libya. We're not really sure who's controlling it, whether it's the rebel forces or Gadhafi's forces. On the line right now, we have someone -- we don't want to reveal his name for his own safety. But we have spoken with him before, and want to bring him back in to tell us what he's seeing in terms of the violence that's happening on streets of Misrata.

Sir, can you hear me? Tell us what you're seeing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (on the phone): The (INAUDIBLE) and destruction in Misrata continues. It's just utter madness. The shelling -- the tank shelling, the evictions, the door-to-door searches. It's going on as we speak. The (INAUDIBLE) goes on. The human suffering goes on.

KAYE: And when you say the door to door, can you tell us exactly what's happening there? are these Gadhafi forces who are pulling out residents? And if so, what are they doing to them?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, they go in the areas where they control. They will go door to door evicting people, not allowing them to take their belongings or even their cars. And we have confirmed reports of them burning some houses, looting some houses. Controlling more areas of the city.

I am afraid it will be one big massacre here in Misrata if the Russian community and the international forces do not do more to take out his forces within the city. There are tanks in the streets. There are very, very heavy artillery.

It just goes on. It's utter madness. I mean we had 20 dead yesterday. The figure today is nine and rising. The number -- we honestly stopped counting the number of wounded.

KAYE: It sounds like an awful scene there, sir. We appreciate you being on the line with us and risking your own safety to help us understand exactly what's happening there. We had our Fred Pleitgen there as well just yesterday. And he was also helping us understand in our television exclusive, actually, one of the first TV reporters there.

So I want to bring in Michael Holmes to talk more about that. You heard him. He's talking about carnage. They're burning houses.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's dramatic stuff. And Fred's reporting from inside Misrata was awesome, by the way. It was incredible stuff. Cameraman Scott McWynnny and Jonathan Ball (ph) producer as well, did some amazing stuff.

It really underscores the difficulty that the coalition has with the no-fly zone and using air power to take out Gadhafi's assets when they can. When you're in the city, that's problematic. They're pretty pinpoint, these missiles they're firing. But you're going to get collateral damage.

KAYE: We heard a lot also, we've been reporting quite a bit on the CIA operatives that we've gotten word have really been in Libya for weeks. What's your take on that?

HOLMES: Yes, it's not surprising. It doesn't surprise me at all they're there, and there are also British are there as well, the special air services there. Their special forces.

It doesn't really surprise me they're in there. Their job is to gather intelligence where Gadhafi's forces are, the strength, etc. But also to learn more about the opposition, who they are, what their strengths, what their weaknesses are. Technology has moved on a long way, but there are the old sort of old-school spotters as well where they can use lasers to pinpoint artillery pieces, which helps the laser-guided missiles take out stuff in a pinpoint way. Maybe they're doing a little bit of that as well, especially close in on the population centers.

KAYE: We're keeping one eye on Libya. The other eye on the rest of the region, including Syria. Possibly, maybe, the government is going to lift emergency law?

HOLMES: I don't think anyone's holding their breath on this one. Yes, again, the promises have been made before. They haven't come to fruition. The big speech he made the other day, he didn't even mention it.

Now they're talking about studying and lifting the emergency law. There's a lot of the suspicion among the opposition there that he may lift that and introduce an anti-terror law, which will basically have the same sort of impact. And he'll be able to operate much the same as did he with the emergency law. So, there's a lot of the suspicion among the opposition what that's going to mean.

KAYE: Much the same as his father did.

HOLMES: Yes. Right. He's not his dad. It is important to realize that. His dad was -- he was a brutal man. He killed tens of thousands of people.

KAYE: He was in power there for, what --

HOLMES: Thirty years.

KAYE: Thirty years.

HOLMES: Thirty years. And his son has been in power for about 11 years now. And he's not his dad. He does want reform. He's up against many, many hard-liners within his own regime. So, it's going to be difficult to see how this goes. There's a lot of suspicion about the genuine nature of lifting the emergency law and what would replace it.

KAYE: All right We'll keep an eye on it along with you as well. Michael Holmes, good to see you. Thank you, too.

Unemployment has hit the African-American community at a rate nearly double that of whites. So, how do you fix it? Well, one organization has a 12-step plan that they say will get everything back on track. We're going to talk to them about it right after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Welcome back. It is no secret that unemployment is a big problem in this country. While the recession has been officially declared over, hundreds of thousands of jobless in this country are still having a very hard time making ends meet. It's especially hard in the African-American community.

In 2010, the unemployment rate for whites averaged about 8.7 percent while African-Americans fared much worse, nearly double that at 16 percent.

According to the most recent numbers released this year, it hasn't gotten much better. The rate for whites remains at 8.7 percent while African-Americans are at 15.6 percent. Not much of a difference.

So, what can be done to close this gap? Well, the National Urban League has come up with a 12-point plan which they say will help put urban America back to work. The group's president and CEO, Marc Morial joins me from Washington to discuss this plan. Hi, there, Marc.

MARC MORIAL, PRESIDENT AND CEO, NATIONAL URBAN LEAGUE: Hey it, Randi, How are you?

KAYE: I'm well, thank you. I'm really interested in this plan of yours. But I want to ask you first, why now? Why hasn't someone done this before?

MORIAL: Well, we issued six of the 12 points over a year ago. And added six additional points, and we think that there's been some reluctance to have more of what I call a targeted approach to areas of high unemployment. There are 474 counties in the United States where the poverty rate is higher than 20 percent and has been so for more than two decades. So, we think that policies need to be much more targeted to try to bring the unemployment rate down in those areas where they are persistently high. KAYE: So, I know you have these 12 points. I want to take a look, we don't have time to go through all of them. So, I want to look at the highlights, and maybe you can explain to me how they would help. So, let's start with restoring the summer youth jobs program. How might that help?

MORIAL: Well, the unemployment rate among teens, black teens is nearly 50 percent. White teens, 30 percent. We think putting young people to work during the summer is an important way to not only prevent unemployment but to stimulate the economy. And to try to keep our young people away from lawlessness and hopelessness and to demonstrate to them that we have confidence in them as the future workers of America.

When times were good, we had a commitment to summer jobs. It's sort of contradictory that now that times are bad, we can't even pass a summer jobs program through the United States Senate, and that was last year because of filibusters. So, summer jobs - it's a small thing in some people's minds, but we think it's an important thing for the young people of America.

KAYE: Just to get through a few of the others. If we can, just move quickly through these. Another one is boost minority participation in information and communication technology industries.

MORIAL: I think what we've seen is an increase in entrepreneurship amongst people of color, amongst African-Americans. The number of businesses have increased. The size of those businesses is still very small.

Small business development has been talked about, but we think focusing on minority business development as a part of small business development will in fact create jobs. At our report released today, we showcased two minority entrepreneurs, Lonnie Grayson from Cincinnati, David Sims from Philadelphia. The Urban League has assisted them. In the case of Lonnie Grayson, he's added ten new employees just in the last year because of the help he's gotten.

Here's the most important number. If one out of every three of the nation's microenterprises hired just one person, we could dramatically bring the unemployment rate down. So, we're saying, yes, focus on small businesses, but make it a hyper-focus on minority-owned businesses because it will yield a benefit. It will create jobs for everyone.

KAYE: I want to try to get in one more quickly. How would creating green empowerment zones help?

MORIAL: Well, we are allowing the production and assembly of solar panels to go abroad. If we're going to create a green economy in the United States, we say give tax incentives to businesses to locate in distressed urban communities.

I visited a solar panel plant out West. That plant could be located in any inner city in America. It is part of what we have to do to focus the jobs on those areas that are the hardest hit but also to try to keep jobs here in the United States. The biggest threat right now in the short run would be a congressional budget deal which dramatically cut programs that create jobs. So, we are also saying to the Congress, we do need a fiscal plan, but don't do it in a way that's going to cost people their jobs. Don't do it in a way that's going to cost the nation maybe another half, three-quarters of a million jobs.

KAYE: All right. That is a great conversation. Such an important conversation to have. Marc Morial, thank you so much.

MORIAL: Thanks, Randi.

KAYE: Really appreciate all the work you're doing.

As you heard it, he would like to put urban America back to work. So, keep that in mind because we want to hear what some smart minds have to say about all the time and resources that we're spending in Libya while so many Americans are still out of work. Right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: We just heard before the break a stark report on the state of black America. But you don't need statistics to know most every American community has some kind of urgent need. Jobs and money usually top the list.

And so we've put it to the Stream Team. Is it wise to poor dwindling resources into countries thousands of miles away, say like Libya, when cities and towns in America are struggling? What do you say about this?

CNN's contributor Erick Eriksson, CNN political analyst Roland Martin, and Pete Dominick all are here to discuss this.

Erick, let's start with you. What's your take?

ERICK ERICKSON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, you know, I think the government is able to multitask, can do many things at one time. We're in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya. We will probably pass yet again another unemployment benefits extension. I think the government's able to multitask on these things.

KAYE; Roland, what do you think about where the United States is putting its resources? We have states running out of money, like Erick said, the unemployment benefits could run out.

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, first of all, we do have to adjust our whole thinking. If you look at the amount of money we spend on defense compared to the next ten countries behind us, it shows you how we are so far ahead of everyone else.

But you do have to have some sense of balance. We can't talk about the need to strengthen our ports, we can't talk about protecting our borders, how else are we going to pay for it? And so, the real issue comes in as to how do we prioritize our spending? Now, keep in mind, Randi, whenever we talk about defense, we typically will have some member of Congress then say wait a minute, there are defense jobs in my district. So, the spending we do on defense, the direct correlation also to jobs on defense companies.

KAYE: And Pete, I know you don't agree with these guys on everything here. So, where do you stand?

PETE DOMINICK, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: Certainly not. I don't understand. We can talk about Libya and whether or not that's worth it and the money we're spending.

We should talk about Afghanistan, $2 billion a week and for what? What are we getting out of it? $120 billion a year. We have bases all over the world. We need to stop trying to protect everybody. Let Europe's taxpayers pay for their defense a little bit more. And we could put that money in here at home. Green jobs, health care.

We want to cut everything here? Cut the defense budget. As Roland said, we spend more than the next ten countries, we spend so much money in this country on defense. Who, I ask, everybody on the panel, who is the conventional military that's going to evade America? If you're more afraid of al Qaeda than heart disease, you've been duped.

KAYE: So, where do you guys think the money should be spent? Erick?

ERICKSON: Well, you know, I kind of reject the notion that we need to spend money to create jobs. We tried the stimulus plan. It didn't work out so much. The president this past weekend credited the tax cuts from December as helping kick start some job recovery. I think probably the government needs to figure out how to get out of the way and let the private sector do some job creation.

MARTIN: Hey, you know what? Hey, Randi, it sounds great. So, why don't we do this here, Erick? Why don't we get rid of all the subsidies the government provides to the private sector and say hey, you guys want to be on your own? Go right ahead. Be on your own. The fact of the matter is --

ERICKSON: You know, actually I wish we would do that, Roland, and lower the overall tax rate, as well.

MARTIN: But trust me, those same corporations, they don't want to do it. So, GE, you can make $14 billion, but don't want to pay any taxes.

Look, Randi, at the end of the day, we have to confront the reality where we stand as a nation when it comes to education. There are still basic services we have to provide as well. So, I disagree with people on the left who say oh, no, whacking the defense budget. One of the reasons America is strong economically is also because we have a strong defense.

But it also is a question of smart spending and not continuing to fund unnecessary programs that Secretary Gates is trying to get of in terms of the Pentagon.

KAYE: But don't you remember President Obama the state of the union saying his principal focus is growth and creating jobs? Pete, let's let you get a word in here.

DOMINICK: Well, yes, I mean, the fact is we're cutting everywhere, everywhere, but defense. They're trying to trick you and say they're cutting defense. They're not cutting it. They're just not spending as much. We're cutting everything. Essential services, and we are not cutting defense. We need to take care of our military, our veterans and all of the health care needs. But we definitely need to make cuts there in defense.

MARTIN: And it is true, Randi. In order for us to confront our deficit problem, you have to tackle Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and defense. Democrats do not like to touch Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid. Republicans don't want to touch defense. You can't confront our deficit, you cannot confront our spending, if you don't deal with all three. They are the three biggest issues which we spend money. At the end of the day, we must confront all three.

KAYE: All right, guys.

ERICKSON: What Roland said.

(LAUGHTER)

KAYE: There you go, what Roland said! We will leave it there. We're out of time. We'll have to continue that discussion another day or on our own time. Thanks, guys.

DOMINICK: Thanks a lot.

KAYE: A battle brewing over the GOP convention in Tampa. That's next in our political update.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Time now for CNN political update. CNN's senior political editor, Mark Preston, joins me live from Washington. Hi, Mark! What have you got?

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL EDITOR: Hey, Randi. A little bit of a dispute in the Republican party right now. The chairman of the Iowa and South Carolina Republican parties are upset at Florida. Reason being is that Florida is holding their primary on January 31, 2012.

Why is this important? It's important because Iowa and New Hampshire and South Carolina and now Nevada are four states that always go first. However, if Florida keeps their date on January 31, it totally messes up the calendar.

It also violates RNC rules. So, the South Carolina chairwoman, the Iowa Republican chairman, they want the convention to be taken away from Florida. The RNC is supposed to meet in 2012, late in 2012 to nominate their presidential nominee. They want the convention out of Florida if Florida stays out of compliance.

The convention, Randi, could be upwards worth upwards of $170 million, so a little bit of an internal dispute there that we're following here at CNN.

KAYE: Oh, yes. All right, I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it, Mark. Thank you!

And CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with my friend Brooke Baldwin.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, friend, Randi Kaye. Thank you so much. Have a great rest of your afternoon.