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President Reveals Debt Targets; Breaking Down the Budget; Searching for a Supposed Serial Killer; TSA Pats-Downs A Six-Year-Old; Jury Still Out In Bonds Trial; Talk Back Question; Afghan Businesswomen Threatened

Aired April 13, 2011 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. I'm Suzanne Malveaux. I want to get you up to speed.

In about 90 minutes, President Obama is going to lay out a blueprint to tackle the nation's crippling $14 trillion debt. The plan counters a recent Republican proposal and is sure to impact a broad cross-section of Americans.

We are talking from high-wage earnings, those who make a lot of money, to the nation's poorest; from retirees to those who have just been hired. Our CNN special live coverage begins at 1:00 Eastern.

Well, the president's plan, not even public yet, and already Republicans say that raising taxes on wealthy Americans by allowing Bush-era tax cuts to expire is a nonstarter. On the Senate floor today, the minority leader suggested that the president's proposal will be nothing more than political theater.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MINORITY LEADER: The truth is the president is only entering this debate at all because he can no longer ignore the growing bipartisan calls for action. If he were serious, he'd be talking about a detailed roadmap for action, not just grabbing headlines by announcing another speech.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: An hour from now, New York police plan to discuss the Long Island serial killer investigation. A medical examiner confirms now that remains found this week are human, bringing the number of potential victims now to 10. All were discovered on Long Island beaches. We'll ask a forensic psychiatrist about the case in just a few minutes.

In Newburgh, New York, today, police say a distraught mother deliberately drove her minivan carrying her four children into the Hudson River. The oldest, a 10-year-old boy, escaped the sinking vehicle and alerted firefighters.

It took about an hour to find the van in the dark water, and by then everyone inside was dead. Authorities say the woman had just been involved in a family argument. Egypt's former president is now in custody. Hosni Mubarak and his sons will be held for 15 days while prosecutors question them about corruption allegations. Mubarak is being questioned at a hospital now because Egyptian state television says he had a heart attack. Other reports say it was a nervous breakdown.

An international conference on Libya today. Nations and organizations involved in the military campaign met in Doha, Qatar. Topics ranged from humanitarian aid, to funding the rebels, to NATO air strikes. The Libyan opposition called on NATO to be more aggressive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAHMOUD SHAMMAM, SPOKESMAN, LIBYAN INTERIM NATIONAL COUNCIL: So we're not seeing really a great effort to protect the civilians since NATO took over the operation. So we'd like to put great emphasis on this. This is the great emphasis of this conference. This is the number one request we have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: New home video now of Japan's March 11th tsunami now uploaded to YouTube. Watch the bottom left corner of the screen now. Two people get caught up in the surge of debris. Seconds later, they make it to safety. Incredible.

Japan's Sendai airport reopened for a limited number of flights today. The first jet to land had the message "Let's get through this" written on the side. American troops spearheaded the cleanup at Sendai.

This was Sendai airport on March 11th. Water, wreckage spilled out onto the runways. U.S. troops say some 5,000 mangled cars and trucks had to be cleared from the parking lot.

More now on the deficit reduction plan President Obama is unveiling next hour and what this means for you. The president is expected to call for reforms in Medicare, Medicaid, as well as an increase in taxes on the wealthy.

Want to bring in our White House correspondent Dan Lothian, who has been following all of this.

And Dan, tell us if you've learned any specifics about what we expect the president to lay out this afternoon.

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, beyond those themes that you have just pointed out, the White House has not offered up any specifics other than to say that the president will be calling for an end to these Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, those making more than $250,000 a year.

As you know, this is very controversial. The president, last year, had dug his heels in, saying that he did not think that the wealthy should benefit from these tax breaks, but ultimately it was a compromise, an extension for two years.

But the reason the president is pushing this now is because he believes that there needs to be a revenue source in order to bring down the deficit. Republicans are saying that it's a nonstarter, it's simply unacceptable. So it will be interesting to see how this battle plays out.

We saw how contentious it was just last week with the budget. This is shaping up to be equally, perhaps even more contentious, than that as well -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: And Dan, is there some worry inside the White House? I know that he's coming forward and he has to look presidential, but Republicans are already slamming him for saying this is somewhat political theater. Clearly, they have to know that it's very important, not only what he says, but also how this looks.

LOTHIAN: That's right. And, you know, any time you have an election year looming, 2012, everything will be sort of viewed through those glasses. And a lot of concern, obviously, that -- at least from Republicans -- that the president is delivering more talk and not heavy on the specifics. And that has been one of the big criticisms that we heard yesterday, hearing it again today.

Republicans pointing to what the House has laid out, specific ideas about cutting the deficit, the long-term problem. And they don't believe that the president is offering anything in terms of specifics.

The White House saying that they do have this vision, these four steps of keeping domestic spending low, savings in the defense budget, also reducing health care spending and strengthening Medicare and Medicaid, which will apparently be cuts to those entitlement programs. And, of course, tax reform, again, which the administration believes will boost revenue.

Very controversial, again. And so that's why you saw the president bring a bipartisan group of lawmakers here to the White House to sit them down this morning, go over this vision that he has for the future, but certainly very controversial -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: All right. Dan, we'll all be keeping a close eye, watching what the president has to say at about 1:35 or so, his budget plan.

Thank you, Dan.

LOTHIAN: OK.

MALVEAUX: Now it is your chance to "Talk Back." A lot of opinions out there on the best way to help balance the country's budget.

Carol, I know you've got folks that are weighing in on this very question. Some people feel that the rich should step in, pay a little bit more in taxes. Others, hey, no, that's not the right approach. CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And you heard Dan say the president is going to float the idea of ending those Bush-era tax cuts on the wealthiest Americans. Well, that's our "Talk Back" today. So here's a wakeup call.

In the month of March, the country ran a $188 billion deficit. In other words, it spent $188 billion more than it took in. This is a defining moment for leadership in the country's debt crisis.

Republicans laid out their plan. Now President Obama will propose a twofer -- reduce spending, but also end those Bush-era tax cuts. That means raising taxes on people earning over $250,000 a year.

If it sounds familiar, oh, it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Two hundred fifty thousand dollars a year.

Two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year.

Yes, asking the folks who are making more than $250,000 a year, a quarter million dollars a year, to go back to the tax rates they were paying in the 1990s.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: That was the president during his campaign for president. Well, Republicans didn't like the idea back then, and they sure don't like it now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ERIC CANTOR (R), MAJORITY LEADER: You can't fix the problem that we're facing by cuts alone. We know that. The challenge for us is how you grow the economy, and we don't believe you grow the economy through raising taxes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: The White House prefers to call it shared prosperity and shared responsibility, like from some of those corporate CEOs who aren't exactly hurting. Not that raising taxes on the rich will solve all of our debt problems, because economists say there aren't enough wealthy people to generate the revenue we need.

So, the "Talk Back" question today: Are tax hikes on the wealthy the answer to our debt problem?

Facebook.com/CarolCNN, and I'll read some of your comments later this hour.

MALVEAUX: And part of the controversy, too, is how you define wealthy folks -- $250,000. COSTELLO: Yes. We'll see if he moves that figure around, but it's still $250,000. Some people in some parts of the country consider that middle class.

MALVEAUX: Right. Right. OK. Very interested in what the viewers have to say. Thanks, Carol.

Ahead "On the Rundown," a forensic psychologist is going to tell us what to look for in a search for a serial killer.

Plus, Egypt's former first family now being detained. More on Hosni Mubarak and his sons.

And our "Fix My Flight" series compares high-speed rail with flying.

And check out the gator going for a dip in somebody's pool.

Finally, the TSA pats down a 6-year-old girl. Legal expert Sunny Hostin, she's going to weigh in on that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: Time now to tell you about today's "Choose the News" candidates. Let us know which story you'd like to see. Vote by texting 22360. .

First, a mother and daughter in Afghanistan are facing death threats for helping women succeed. Their business employs dozens of Afghan women and is expanding into now Taliban-controlled areas.

Next, a former president rides his trike. It's raising money for charity. Jimmy Carter's trike and the other unique items that he's auctioning off.

And finally, it's a fear that so many of us share, and it came true for 28 people, all at the same time, trapped in a New York elevator. The entire ordeal caught on video.

Vote by texting 22360. Text 1 for "Afghan Women Making Progress"; 2 for "Jimmy Carter's Charity Auction"; or 3 for "Trapped in an Elevator." The winning story will air next hour.

Also next hour, President Obama expected to call for changes now in Medicare, Medicaid, as well as an increase in taxes for wealthier Americans. The president outlines his plan for dealing with the nation's deficits, as well as the crushing national debt.

On the House floor today, a congressman who is also a professional auctioneer used his skills to kind of highlight the country's death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. BILLY LONG (R), MISSOURI: And being an auctioneer in Congress, the way our debt is running out of control, they find it very handy to have Jeff Duncan and myself here in Washington. We are one of the few people that can actually keep up with the national debt.

How about a trillion, $2 trillion, now $3 trillion. And now $4 -- $4 trillion. Five trillion, $6 trillion, $7 trillion, $8 trillion. Nine, nine, 10 -- $11 trillion. I'm hearing $13 trillion.

You're out of here -- $13 trillion, $14 trillion. Now $15 trillion. I have sold at $14 trillion.

Thankfully, Mr. Speaker, we also can say those numbers backwards, so when we get the spending under control here, I'll be back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Wow.

Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security take up a huge chunk of the federal budget, and those programs are really shaping what this debate is all about.

Our CNN's Don Lemon, he's joining us with a closer look.

Don, you're not going to do auction?

DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I can use them, right, to talk about these numbers?

MALVEAUX: You've got to slow it down for us, if you will.

LEMON: I've got a question for you though. You and I are about the same age. We've been paying into the system, as they call it, for about the same amount of time.

MALVEAUX: That's right.

LEMON: And we expect to have that money, right, when we retire, if we get sick? We want that money as many Americans -- most Americans do. But, listen, when you're trying to deal with a huge budget deficit and a budget that is $40 trillion over the next 10 or 11 years, you're going to have to look at that very closely.

Here's -- I want to show you why we're talking about entitlements so much, because entitlements make up 40 percent. Forty percent of the budget comes in entitlements.

Look right here. Social Security, 20.4 percent of the budget. Medicare comes to 12.8 percent of the budget. And then, Medicaid, of course, 7.28 percent of the budget.

And this is a place where changes can really be made, but politicians are afraid to touch it because, how do you go back home and you tell people, hey, that money, that system that you paid into, well, we're not going to be able to afford it? Maybe.

But this is why those entitlements make up such a big part of Social Security. It's really because of baby boomers and baby boomers retiring.

So, look at this. Right now, 2010, and about now, there are three workers who support every one retiree so that they can get their money. That's right now in 2010.

At the height of when baby boomers will retire, in about 2035, you'll have only two workers supporting one retiree. And that's because between now and then, it will go from about 30 million people who are retiring to about 50 million people who are retiring, and they're going to draw from Social Security and then other entitlements.

So, let's look at this. When we're talking about that, why don't we take a closer look at Medicare?

Here's where -- look at all of this money. So, in 1975, there were 24 million enrollees, 24 million Americans enrolled in Medicare.

2010, just last year, 47 million. That number jumped -- almost doubles -- 47 million.

And then, Suzanne, by 2040, 88 million people, Americans, will be enrolled in Medicare. And this is the cost. This is the cost. This is where the real information is.

1975, the government paid about $2,800 for every single person. And so here, you had 24 million in, paying about $2,800 for every person.

2010, about $12,000 the government is paying for every person to be enrolled here. And then, when you get here, to 2040, $44,416. And then you've got all those people enrolled, and now you see where the money comes from -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: All right. Don, thank you very much.

We're going to dip in real quick, if we can, and go to Capitol Hill, where Republican leaders are before the mikes there to talk about their plan.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), HOUSE SPEAKER: And the kind of serious effort that is required given the debts that we have.

And let me say, I fully support Paul Ryan's budget, including his efforts on Medicare. But I think all of us understand that not meeting our obligations, our debt obligations, is a very bad idea, and nobody wants to take that risk. But having said that, it is time for us to get serious about the big challenges that face our country.

MCCONNELL: As all of you already know, the president's own deficit reduction commission chairmen have said that a debt crisis is one to two years away. Many Republicans in the Senate believe it's essentially at hand already, and so it is time to act. I thought the meeting was constructive in the sense that I think everyone at the White House meeting agreed that we need to kind of put the talking points aside and deal with what's doable as we approach this debt ceiling vote. I think all the Republicans made it clear, and I think the Democrats understand, that we don't believe a lack of revenue is a part of the problem, and so we will not be discussing raising taxes in this particular connection.

The need to go forward in the Senate, I can report to you, is as follows. There is bipartisan opposition in the Senate to raising the debt ceiling unless we do something significant about the debt.

And in terms of what is significant, in my view, the definition of significant is what we do is viewed as credible by the markets, by the American people, and by foreign countries. No blue smoke and mirrors, no gamesmanship, a serious and credible path forward, not only short term, but long term, to reduce spending is the only thing in my judgment that will get the votes in the Senate to raise the debt ceiling.

CANTOR: The only concrete proposal in the president's plan that he'll roll out today is his plan to raise taxes. And I find that very unacceptable given we're several days out from Tax Day in this country.

We don't believe that raising taxes is the answer here. I think the American people understand we have a serious problem in this country. We have a debt that will crush the next generation and the ability for us to see a better future.

We put on the table our plan, our vision. We're going to be voting on the floor this week on the Ryan budget plan, and it lays out how we expect to, frankly, save the safety net for those who need it in this country, not for those who don't. The president has not come forward with any specifics as far as how we're going to deal with our debt obligation.

I'm looking forward to seeing specifics and to getting serious so we can respond to this debt crisis that we're facing.

BOEHNER: Any questions?

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

BOEHNER: I think the president heard us loud and clear. If we're going to resolve our differences and do something meaningful, raising taxes will not be part of that.

QUESTION: You said that (INAUDIBLE) raising the debt ceiling won't happen without serious discussion. How do you reconcile that if you (INAUDIBLE)?

BOEHNER: We've made it clear to the president, and I think the president's pretty serious about this as well, that we've got to take meaningful steps toward solving our long-term debt problem if, in fact, we're going to find the votes to increase the debt ceiling. QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

MCCONNELL: Well, I think they want to know whether America's going to get its act together or whether America is going to become another Greece. And I think how foreign countries view what we do is very, very significant in this global economy.

Is America in decline, or is America still rising? All of those doubts are out there as a result of this spending spree that we've been on the last couple of years.

I don't have to remind you all, there's a $14 trillion debt, over $50 trillion unfunded liabilities. There are people all over the world beginning to wonder whether America's in decline.

So, this effort we're going to make here in the next month to six weeks is extremely important in terms of restoring the confidence not only of the markets here in this country, but the markets around the world, the American people, and foreign countries that we're going to get our act together financially.

MALVEAUX: Republicans there before the mikes on Capitol Hill, giving -- throwing down the gauntlet, if you will, saying that dealing with the deficit is not going to include raising taxes for the wealthy.

Obviously, we're going to be listening to President Obama, who is going to be giving his side, his own blueprint, his own plan. He's going to deliver a deficit-cutting speech at George Washington University. That is happening later today.

I want you to stay with us for live coverage of his remarks. Those remarks begin at 1:35 Eastern.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: Long Island police are scheduled to update us on their search for a possible serious killer at the top of the hour. Police say that they -- there may be now at least 10 victims. Only four of them have been identified so far.

Our Brooke Baldwin asked the mothers of one of the victims what she would say to her daughter's killer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LORRAINE WATERMAN-ELA, MOTHER OF VICTIM: I don't know why you have done this to people, especially to a little child. They cannot I.D. you whatsoever. You need to turn yourself in and stop hurting these people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Forensic psychiatrist Helen Morrison, she's joining us from Chicago with her insights into this case.

Thank you so much, Helen, for joining us, first of all.

What can you tell us about this serial killer based on what we know and the pattern of information that we've seen?

DR. HELEN MORRISON, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: Well, currently, we do know that he has killed a number of victims, at least 10 that we know of. It is a he, because 99.9 percent of the serial killers that begin killing in adolescence are male.

He's clever. He is certainly not below average intelligence. He knows exactly what he's doing. And he also knows how to choose a victim that will willingly go with him.

MALVEAUX: Why is the killer leaving bodies in this particular area of Long Island, do you suppose?

MORRISON: Well, one of the things is that, although he can pick his victim amongst a group of individuals, the way he disposes of his victim is in a place that is not highly-populated. If he's killing and murdering in the wintertime, how many people go to the beach in the wintertime?

He knows the spot and it's familiar to him. And so he goes back to that same area, as most serial killers do, to dispose of the remains.

MALVEAUX: Why do you suppose serial killers tend to target prostitutes? Are they trying to send some sort of moral message, do you think?

MORRISON: Oh, no, they're not. They are looking for an expendable victim, a woman walking alone on a street at night, which is not unusual in New York City or any other city.

They don't have to be prostitutes. I mean, I read that somebody said that they had to be a prostitute because they were strangled. Well, forgive me, but a lot of serial murderers strangle people because it's the easiest way to overcome someone.

It doesn't define the victim as a prostitute. But don't forget, if you're out on the street alone, and you see this individual who doesn't look dangerous at all, you're going to go with him.

MALVEAUX: Do you think that there are more serial killers now than what we've seen before with all these reports?

MORRISON: No, I don't. In the early 1970s, before John Gacy was really caught, we used to call them mass murderers. And it really wasn't until John Gacy was captured that people began to call them serial murders.

So, it's a way of introducing a term and making people more cognizant or aware that these people do exist. It was a little bit like the concepts of child abuse or battered spouse. Until we put a name on it, people really didn't look at crimes as if they managed to be so similar. MALVEAUX: All right, Ms. Morrison. Thank you so much for your perspective on this. Obviously, they have quite a case on their hands, and they are trying to catch this individual.

MORRISON: Oh, yes.

MALVEAUX: We really appreciate your perspective. Thank you.

Well, politicians want changes to Medicare, and some are asking, don't they know 2012, it's an election year? We're going to discuss the chances of anything at all big is going to come out of all of these different budget plans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: Here's a look ahead on the Rundown. Political reality check here: big promises, right, about the budget? But what are the chances that they're actually going to be kept?

And how to get there. We're comparing planes versus trains.

Plus the TSA patting down a six-year-old.

And also Medicare, Social Security, they used to be considered untouchable. Now we're hearing a lot of talk about reforming these entitlement programs to deal with the national debt. I want to bring in our national political correspondent Jessica Yellin to give us some perspective here.

And Jessica, play along here. We're doing a reality check. I mean, we are talking about cuts in Medicare, raising taxes. We're approaching the 2012 election bid right around the corner. What do you think are the chances that any of this is going to happen?

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, I think it's probably unlikely that there will be anything other than incremental reform in the next six to nine months, even the next year because of the presidential election down the pipe, coming up.

But this is the time, Suzanne, where they're laying down markers. Each side is sort of marking the territory where they want to these significant changes. And defining a key part of the debate for the 2012 election. So, what I think is these entitlement reforms, this discussion of tax increases, how will we bring in the deficit, will be a centerpiece of the 2012 election. And all sides are sort of laying their markers now.

MALVEAUX: Well, it seems to me the Republicans are certainly driving the story line here, putting their plan out first. Congressman Paul Ryan being praised, really, for putting out a bold plan, whether you agree with it or not to dismantle Medicare as we know it. And President Obama is now going to outline his own blueprint.

Do we think this is about looking presidential, that there's some element of political theater here or do we think he's really going to push forward very definitively something that's going to get done?

YELLIN: Well, I don't think they're necessarily mutually exclusive. There is a heavy dose of political theater and I also think the White House knows they need to get behind the deficit reduction and they're serious about proposing a vision of their own.

Look, you talk to top Democrats in this town, people are close to the White House. And it wasn't an accident that they let Republicans go first on it. You know, the old, like, let him walk out on the plank on his own and see where that goes. And then the president can come in and offer something that might seem more reasonable, as they might put it, to voters who are very concerned, for example, about cuts to Medicare or changes to Social Security. So, it was definitely a political calculus to let the Republicans go first, but that does not diminish the White House's interest in tackling this issue with seriousness.

MALVEAUX: Absolutely. And Jess, what is the likelihood that the Republicans are chomping at the bit to watch this speech and perhaps pull some sound bites for some presidential candidates, the contenders, their commercials, attacking the president on some of the very issues he's going to highlight here?

YELLIN: You've covered some of those campaign ads in the past, haven't you? I mean, one of the ironies here is, yes, sure, whatever the president says today could be probably clipped in some ways and used with ads.

But so can the Republicans' words. I mean, go back to the 2010 midterm elections we just finished. The Republicans were constantly barraging voters with claims that Democrats tried to cut Medicare, and they said that the Democrats were out to destroy Medicare because of health care reform.

Well, now Democrats can use the same criticism of Republicans because of their budget proposals. So, everybody is sort of jumping in the pool together here, both sides, and everybody is going to get a little bit attacked, no doubt, in the next election season. But it's a mutual death pact that these politicians seem to have right. They've decided to go down the road, and they're starting down it.

MALVEAUX: A lot of people, they don't like what they hear so far. We'll see if either side really pushes forward and gets anything done out of this. Jessica, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Well, air traffic in the United States is approaching a billion passengers a year. We're going to see whether there's more elbow room now in a train.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: In ten years, about 1 billion passengers will fly in the United States, each one of them with some complaints. We've all got them. So, we're spending three days offering some solutions. We call our series "Fix My Flight." And today, we're comparing an alternative now to flying. We sent Sandra Endo on a trip through the air and on the ground, using high-speed rail.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANDRA ENDO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Riding the rails or flying the skies. This is not a race but a test in satisfaction.

(on camera): We're taking a day trip from Washington, D.C., to New York City. And the good thing about the northeast corridors is that travelers can either take the train or the plane to get there, and on this leg, we're taking the Amtrak Accela.

(voice-over): With a ticket to ride, get on board and choose your seat. There's a cafe cart if you're hungry, free wi-fi if you need it, and a quiet car for some peace.

(on camera): Why do you choose a train rather than a plane?

CYNTHIA O'CONNOR, PREFERS TRAIN: The first year I moved to D.C. from New York City, I did the plane and I ended up on the tarmac for hours on end. I like the fact that the trains aren't late, they're dependable.

ENDO (voice-over): While traveling by train takes longer, passengers say they don't want to pay more taxes to create high-speed rail. Travelers say the benefits of riding versus flying are enough.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's cheaper, but it's a lot more convenient. I can arrive at the station five minutes before the train arrives instead of an hour or an hour and a half earlier.

ENDO (on camera): Many train rides say they like how comfortable the ride is, how big the seats are and in fact, the space they get. There's more than three feet from the seat in front of them.

(voice-over): And electronic devices are welcome to stay on. You can walk around or not. Just remember your stop.

(on camera): All right. Here's our final destination. Just under three hours later and we're here in the Big Apple.

I'm here at LaGuardia Airport. And we're going to go from New York back to the nation's Capitol. I'll be flying on a Delta shuttle. And now it's time to go through security.

Here there's a dedicated security line for the shorter commuter flight. But still, those shoes have to come off.

MARYANN O'BRIEN, PREFERS FLYING: It's really quick, really convenient, no complaints.

ENDO: Unlike most flights, arrive early or late, changing your shuttle flight is free of charge. But frequent flyers say there is some unpredictability.

BRIAN CHRISTIANSEN, PREFERS FLYING: It's tremendously variable based on the weather, based on the traffic, and just about any other factor that can take anywhere from between an hour to three hours.

ANNOUNCER: Once we close the main cabin door, it'll be time to turn off cell and electronic and portable devices.

ENDO: What are you going to do if you have an important phone call. You can't get it while you're on flight.

CHRISTIANSEN: Sometimes that's an advantage to be out of touch for a little bit. But that is one of the down sides of flies.

ENDO: It's your me time.

CHRISTIANSEN: It's my me time.

(voice-over): On flights, there are more restrictions. Smaller luggage bins and narrower seats. But a little perk on this short flight, free beer.

(on camera): We landed here in Washington, D.C., just an hour and 15 minutes since takeoff.

(voice-over): So ride or fly, it may all come down to the distance and if you even have an option.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEUAX: Our Sandra Endo is live on a train at Union Station in Washington. Sandra, I love your piece because I've done that trek so many times before, both the shuttle as well as the Accela. You want your me time, but yes, you love the leg room that the train offers. But not ever city, right, has the option of taking the train as an alternative, as a feasible way to get around. So, what are passengers saying about creating high-speed rail?

ENDO: Yes, exactly, Suzanne. Riding the rails is definitely a popular option, and Amtrak says they're on par for another record- breaking year of ridership. Last year, 28.7 million passengers rode the rails.

But President Obama says he wants to do better. He's investing more than $50 billion in high-speed rail projects across the nation, but states -- some states say they want to pay for other initiatives instead of investing in high-speed rail. So, it really depends on state by state where they want to invest their money. So it comes down to priorities.

MALVEAUX: Tell us about the passengers when you talked to them. What was the biggest difference, did they say, between flying and riding?

ENDO: Well, first of all which one do you like better? Because I know you made the commute back and forth many times. Are you a plane rider or a train rider?

MALVEAUX: You know, I like the both but I love the relaxation of the train. It's so nice. And you look out the window. You can read. You can spread out a little bit. I like to take up a little room, so --

ENDO: Yes, they definitely have -- you know, there are pluses and minuses. And there are diehard fans of either mode of transportation. But a lot of people here who are riding these rails say they like the fact, like you do, of being able to have more space, getting up and moving. And also less security. You can bring water onboard a train.

But other people who like to fly, they say, hey, I just want to get there quickly. So, they'd rather go on a plane rather than a train. So, really, two different camps here we're talking about.

MALVEAUX: Yes. Sometimes you don't have an alternative. You have to be in one camp one time and one camp for another trip. But Sandra, that was an excellent piece. Just love that piece. Thanks again.

We're going to talk law and order with Sunny Hostin. A little girl gets an airport pat-down. Concern over the video revives its privacy and legal debates.

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MALVEAUX: A six-year-old subjected to a TSA pat-down. Is this an example of airport security going overboard? Sunny Hostin from "In Session" on our sister network TruTV joins us from New York.

Sunny, very good to see you here.

I want to show our viewers the video that is out, because the parents are concerned and they put the video out. We take a look at the pat-down here. The child's parents say that their request that their daughter be rescanned rather than patted down was refused. So is that legal or do parents have more rights regarding how searches are conducted on their kids?

SUNNY HOSTIN, LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR, "IN SESSION" ON TRUTV: You know, apparently it is legal, Suzanne. I actually spent the morning speaking to a lot of my mom's friends that are also lawyers. And some of them that are actually government lawyers. And we all agree that this is legal. And the TSA also issued a statement saying that this officer -- they reviewed the tape and that this officer followed the appropriate current TSA pat-down procedures.

And so I think really the debate here has been one of safety, of course, national security, versus children's rights and what is appropriate, especially, Suzanne, because we tell our children so often, listen, you don't want adults to touch you in places that are private. And, unfortunately, that usually is the case --

MALVEAUX: Right.

HOSTIN: When these sort of pat-downs occur.

MALVEAUX: I know people they -- you know, this has created an emotional response and a debate clearly despite, you know, what the law is saying. I want to also talk about another story that we're following here. Barry Bonds, the baseball player, accused of lying about using steroids. Now the jury -- it's taking a long time here on the perjury case. This is the fourth day of deliberations. What do you suppose is the hold-up here?

HOSTIN: Oh, well, let me tell you, we're all wondering what is the hold-up because we're on verdict watch. But I have to tell you, it's sort of like reading tea leaves when you're trying to figure out what's going on in that jury room. I mean there have been law review articles written about who does it favor, the prosecution or the defense, when juries take a long time.

I don't really know the answer to that. Many people -- I think most legal experts think that it probably favors the defense when it's taking a long time. I know, Suzanne, when I was a prosecutor, the longer the jury was out, the more nervous I became. We're talking about four days on a perjury case. It could either be that this jury is divided. I know that there have been reports that four jurors were seen eating lunch together, not 12, but just four. So perhaps it's a jury divided or perhaps it's just a really thorough jury. We don't know. But I would say, if there is no verdict by today, the prosecution is probably going to be very concerned.

MALVEAUX: And what was the key point in the prosecution's case?

HOSTIN: You know, the key point that they had to prove was that he lied to the grand jury when he said he never used steroids, he never used growth -- human growth hormone and he never had anyone inject him with anything other than his doctors. Now, there was testimony, Suzanne, that -- by a personal shopper (ph), that she saw him being injected by his personal trainer. And this juror did ask for a readback for that testimony. So this prosecution really has to prove that he did take steroids, that he did take human growth hormone, that he was injected by someone other than his doctor. So it's not an easy case to prove, quite frankly. But, who knows, maybe that's what the jury is struggling with.

MALVEAUX: All right. We're waiting for that verdict. Thank you. Sunny Hostin, good to see you.

HOSTIN: Yes.

MALVEAUX: We're getting a lot of responses to today's "Talk Back" question. We asked if taxing the wealthy would be a good way to pay down the country's debt. Well, Elaine Hayes says, "not entirely. But if you can decrease help to the poor, you should also share the burden of cost with the rich." Carol Costello is back with more of your responses.

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MALVEAUX: We're hearing a lot of talk out of Washington on ways to pay down the country's debt. There are various opinions out there. This afternoon, we're expecting President Obama to propose letting Bush-era tax cuts expire, effectively raising taxes for those making $250,000 a year. So that brings us to the "Talk Back" question of the day. Carol Costello with more.

Lots of responses, huh, Carol?

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We did have a lot of responses. The "Talk Back" question, are tax hikes on the wealthy the answer to our debt problem.

This from Jean. "Yes, it sometimes feels like the greatest generation has given way to the greediest generation. Instead of a call to sacrifice to support what are now three wars, we are going to go shopping and take your family to Disneyworld."

This from Christopher. "They aren't the answer, but they are sure are part of it. With the budget gap, the best way to close it is to work at it from both ends. Yes, we need to cut spending, but we also need to increase revenue."

This from Scott. "Unfortunately, seeking out and closing the tax loopholes for the rich and liens for corporations is not a recipe for a re-surging economy. The rich will move money and purchase assets and investments overseas."

This from Jad. "Is it really a tax hike or a return to sanity? The wealthy and their champions in Congress, the GOP, have pushed the idea for three decades now that low taxes and less regulation is the best thing for the economy and it ended with the worst economy science the Great Depression. And while the rich came out of it with increased net worth, the rest of us are worse off."

This from Linda. "Listening to the Republican response right now and I want to tell you it's no wonder people are getting so angry. I actually had to get up from the TV to keep from wanting to throw something at it. No, just raising taxes will not solve the problem, but it will certainly even the playing field a bit."

And finally from Steve. "No, but it will make most of us feel very good."

Continue the conversation at facebook.com/carolcnn. And thanks, as always.

MALVEAUX: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: Sure.

MALVEAUX: You told us what story you'd like to see. Your "Choose The News" winner just moments away.

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MALVEAUX: Here's the story you wanted to see. Two Afghan businesswomen risking their lives to help other women in their country. Our Mary Snow reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just publically telling their stories can bring its own risks. But 42-year-old Fatema Akbari and her daughter Shahla have come to the U.S. to keep women's rights in Afghanistan in the forefront. And it starts with the businesses they've built. Fatema run as furniture business. Twenty- year-old Shahla is following in her footsteps making shoes.

SHAHLA AKBARI, AFGHAN BUSINESSWOMAN: And people say for me that maybe we will kill you, maybe we will kidnap you. She's encouraging me. Don't think about anything. Just -- I don't think about anything. Don't be afraid.

SNOW: Fatema's business was born out of necessity. She taught herself carpentry in Iran, where she went with her three children after the Taliban killed her husband. In 2002, she decided to return to Afghanistan, and the majority of her 90 employees are women, which is astounding considering at one time girls weren't allowed to attend school there.

FATEMA AKBARI, AFGHAN BUSINESSWOMAN (through translator): My aim is really to bring a change into life of those women that they are in a prison. And I want to empower them.

SNOW: Fatema and Shahla also got help through the 10,000 Women program, run by Goldman Sachs, where they learn business skills. They're now using money and jobs as an incentive to open men's minds about educating girls and women.

S. AKBARI: The three men came to my mom and they said, we know how to make shoes but we don't know how to run our business.

SNOW: Shahla runs her shoe business in Kabul. But Fatema has expanded into areas controlled by the Taliban with some surprising results.

F. AKBARI: I've been talking with some of them. They have been -- some of them have been instrumental in terms of like even finding some women for us.

SNOW: Fatima tells us she has talked with what she calls more moderate voices of the Taliban. She says she's very concerned about extremists regaining control, (INAUDIBLE) atrocities to women, but she sees a window for some Taliban members in a future government.

F. AKBARI: Some of them are the moderate ones, that they have joined us and they are good that realize that violence is not the solution to the problem. And -- but, of course, it's very important that we have to be concerned about a Talibans, the radicals, that they are very extreme and dangerous Taliban.

Mary Snow, CNN, Washington.

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