Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

More Details Emerge About Bin Laden Raid; Stream Team

Aired May 03, 2011 - 14:41   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: It is 40 minutes past the hour. We've been listening to the White House briefing revealing more details about the operation to kill Osama bin Laden. I can tell you that we did get a bit of new information there. The fact that we have press secretary Jay Carney telling us today that Osama bin Laden was not armed. The White House has said that he did resist the attack on his compound, but he would not give any detail exactly how he resisted given the fact that he was armed. He also mentioned that bin Laden's wife charged one of the Navy SEALs. He did not say whether or not she was armed, but she was shot in the leg.

Another quick point as well to make that stood out to me is the amount of intelligence that was taken, and they are now looking through the intelligence to see if there are any other high-valued targets and what other plots might be out there. Also, any information might have allowed Osama bin Laden to live in that compound there in the center of Pakistan for however long that he did.

So, those are the highlights. Here is some animation to help you see how it all went down in the compound. You see the two helicopters coming in. One crashed and was later scuttled by the SEAL team. The Navy SEALs headed up to the third floor under heavy fire where they shot Osama bin Laden once in the head, once in the chest. And a reminder here that he was unarmed at the time. Just getting that new information today.

The two couriers were killed on the first floor. There are apparently pictures as well of this whole thing. CNN learned that the photos were taken of the operation showing all of those killed inside. There are picture of bin Laden's body after it was taken to Afghanistan. And photos of the burial at sea, as well. Right now, the White House is not saying if there are any plans to release the pictures.

The U.S. says Pakistan had no role in the actual operation. But the Pakistani foreign ministry says their information helped the U.S. find bin Laden. They are also expressing concerns over the fact that the U.S. did not tell Pakistan that they were coming.

In an interview with "Time" magazine, CIA director Leon Panetta said that there was concern that Pakistan might warn the targets. We are learning much more about the compound, where bin Laden was found. And CNN national correspondent Nic Robertson had a chance to get right up to one of the 18-foot walls which surrounded the compound to get a closer look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is just across the field here, about 100 yards where there is already a big crowd of people gathering around there. I can see some soldiers as one soldier walking in across the field. But when you look at the building, look at it there, it is different from all of the other buildings around it. It is taller. It's got a higher wall. The compound starts right here, and you can see how high the wall is.

Look at this. OK. I'm 6'0 and my arms maybe another two feet. And that gives you an idea of just how tall the wall is. And of course, there's razor wire on top of it as well. If you come back over here, come and stand up over here, you can take a look here. You can get to see the high part of the compound building here.

It was up there on the second and the third floor where bin Laden was killed. Two shots, one to the head, one to the chest. What is already becoming a tourist attraction in of itself. I mean, look at all the people that are gathered here right now. People have got their cell phones out taking pictures, professional journalists down here and a lot of people just coming to take a look.

And the door here -- (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE) - How are you.? See the doors are sealed. These pink labels here. No, no, no. They are sealing the doors to the compound.

Behind the doors, blood on the floor. This video was taken right just after the fight finished. Now all of that damage is off limits. As you walk around the compound, there is nothing to give away that the world's most wanted terrorist was living inside here. But this is incredibly ironic. Painted on the outside an advert for a girl's college on the wall of the compound where the world's most wanted terrorist lived.

But think about it. More than that, this man, Osama bin Laden denied women access to education. His version of Islam denied women the opportunity to progress in life. And here it is on the outside of the place he was hiding, an advert for girls to get an education.

But looking in, you can see all the mud is churned up, but I can see the building as well. And there is very little damage that I can actually see, even - even squinting in and taking a look from here. The building is just up here and I can't see any signs of heavy explosion or even sort of pot marks from the gun fire.

He couldn't have been hiding in anymore plain sight than that, around three site of the compound, a farmer's field. Cabbages down here and potatoes back there. Marijuana plants right up to the side of the compound. Plain sight. The farmers were working these fields and he was just over the wall.

Are you surprised now to know who it was that was there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I am surprised. I am surprised that it was Osama bin Laden and any other people, and (INAUDIBLE) to have known people. ROBERTSON: Are you happy he is killed?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I am happy because the peace is very important for us.

ROBERTSON: The lasting impression I have of bin Laden's compound here is how little damage there is. How few bullet marks we can see and the shell blasts. It is clear that the main battle took place right inside of there.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Abottabad, Pakistan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: That is fascinating.

With the death of bin Laden, the debate heats up over the mission in Afghanistan and is it time for U.S. troops to leave? CNN in depth is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: President George W. Bush sent troops into Afghanistan shortly after 9/11. It was October. The mission was simple: take out the Taliban and get Osama bin Laden. Now nearly ten years later, bin Laden is dead. But U.S. troops are still there battling the Taliban. Here are the stats.

Right now, there are around 100,000 American troops there. 1,460 have been killed in action, 11,000 more wounded in Operation Enduring Freedom. The president and Pentagon have a plan to start withdraw this year, but with bin Laden gone, should the timetable change? We are putting it to our Stream Team today. Utah Congressman Jason Chaffetz is with us. And Brett McGurk, formerly part of the National Security Council under Presidents Bush and Obama.

Gentlemen, here's the question today: should the U.S. begin pulling out now? Jason, let's start with you.

REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R), UTAH: Yes, absolutely. I took a position in October of 2009, that said we have been very successful over the last 10 years. This is the longest war in the history of the United States of America. 100,000 troops on the ground in Afghanistan is a nation-building exercise. Terrorism -- global terrorism is a worldwide problem. It is not confined to just the borders of Afghanistan or Pakistan. We need the very best intelligence, electronic and human and we need to act on that intelligence. But it doesn't take 100,000 people in Afghanistan.

KAYE: Brett, what's your take on that?

BRETT MCGURK, VISITING SCHOLAR, COLUMBIA LAW SCHOOL: I agree it is not going to take 100,000 people. It's going to take a lot of people. Look at President Obama's announcement the day before he ordered this raid, announcing the new ambassador to Afghanistan, Ryan Crocker and David Petraeus going to the CIA. He said we're still a country at war. We need to sustain our momentum. He's absolutely right.

Over the next year, we need to reduce our footprint in Afghanistan and get to what we call sustainable footprint. Which means that we can sustain economically, militarily and frankly, politically here and in the region. Right now it's not sustainable. But we need to find a long-term, sustainable basis.

We pulled out of this region in 1989. Don't forget that. We could have the same debate then when the Soviets left Afghanistan, and we made a huge mistake.

KAYE: All right, I have more questions for you. But first, I want to ask, what has the killing of Osama bin Laden done for the president's popularity? And I want you to take a look at these poll numbers. In a new CNN/ Opinion Research Corporation poll, 67 percent of the people say that approve of the way the president is handling the issue of terrorism. That's up seven points from January. It's a similar story when asked how the president is handling the situation in Afghanistan. 58 percent of people approve. Again, a seven-point bump. And finally, here's what people said when asked if the president was a strong and decisive leader: 58 percent said yes. That is up five points since early April.

So, Brett, let me go back to you. Do any of these numbers surprise you, especially the seven-point bump in approval for the handling of Afghanistan?

MCGURK: Certainly not. This is something the country has been waiting for for 10 years. And I sat in the situation room with President Bush when he had to make some hard decisions, and I tell you, President Obama made the decision, the high-risk decision, to go after bin Laden with a special forces operation team when he could have blown apart the compound from the sky. That was a risky decision, and it is the kind of decision only a president can make. And he deserves all of the credit he is getting right now.

KAYE: Congressman, do you feel like it is mission accomplished in Afghanistan?

CHAFFEZ: No, absolutely not. I applaud the president in what he did, in getting Osama bin Laden. I think that he gave a great speech and articulated well the situation, and he made some gutsy calls and we ought to give him some credit about that.

But it's by far -- no, the mission is not accomplished. The global war on terror is global in its nature. It is not over. It will go on for years and decades, and that is why we have to continue to pour resources into our intelligence, both human and electronic, to make sure when we have actionable intelligence, we can act upon it as our special forces did.

KAYE: I know as well, Congressman, that you've said that what we're doing in Afghanistan is basically propping up a government that is fundamentally corrupt. I want you to explain that, and then I want Brett to react to that. CHAFFEZ: Well, I don't think the president - if there's one area where the president has failed, I think he's failed to define success. Nobody knows what success in Afghanistan is all about. The Taliban, according to the national intelligence estimates, pose no clear and present danger to the current Afghan government nor to the United States of Ameica. Al Qaeda has been decimated there. Estimates that there are less than 50 there in the entire country.

Now, there are still a lot of bad guys there. There's still a lot of good work that needs to be done, but we don't need 100,000 people there to do it. We need a very small footprint and we need to recognize it is global in nature, not just Afghanistan.

KAYE: Brett, can you react to that?

MCGURK: Well, I just -- that there are costs of staying and getting this right and there are huge costs of leaving. Leaving is not cost-free. And that is something that we need to remind ourselves. And again, the history here is very, very important. We left the region in 1989. When (INAUDIBLE) left Pakistan, we sanctioned them as an adversary. That's something that had broad support in the Congress and the country. That was a huge mistake. That, you know, there's no direct line to 9/11, but that was certainly a contributing factor.

I agree with the congressman. We cannot stay with 100,000 troops. I don't think anybody is saying that now. We need to find a sustainable posture, and the president is going to be listening to his advisers. And I hope that Congress gives the resources to put ourselves in position to succeed over the long term. We have to be there for a long time. Not with 100,000 troops, but 20,00 troops, 30,000 troops, I think is something we can sustain and need.

KAYE: And Congressman, what if we did drawdown and we leave Afghanistan. What kind of message does that send to Pakistan?

CHAFFEZ: Well, look, we can't sustain these numbers for long periods of time. We need a very, very small footprint. I don't think we say that there'd be absolutely nobody there in country. We need to work with these countries so we have a good relationship, a working relationship. It may be strained a little and volatile right now with Pakistan. But we like Pakistan, and we like and we need to work with these other countries and recognize their own sovereignty.

KAYE: And the Taliban as well. What would that say to them, Brett?

MCGURK: Well, one of the missions of this surge strategy was to degrade the Taliban and find a negotiated settlement. And that's going to involve the Taliban, Pakistan and Afghanistan. And our ambassador there, Ryan Crocker, is kind of the master at this. The insurgency in Pakistan is a Pashtun-based tribal insurgency, and that is what the Taliban - they kind of -- thrive on that. They are a a Pashtun-based insurgency.

We have to find a place for Pashtuns at the table. Again, look for a new ambassador to do that; look for the new team in Afghanistan to do that and Pakistan. And over the next year, I think you're going to see our forces come down, you're going to see a diplomatic surge, and that's going to include probably a secret channel the Taliban and we just have to stay patient. The one thing that this operation this weekend proves is that, you know, patience is a virtue here. We have to be persistent, we've got to be patient, and we also have to be presence. We need to stay, we need to be there.

KAYE: All right. Excellent discussion, gentleman. Congressman Jason Chaffetz and Brett McGurk. Appreciate it. Appreciate all your insight today as well. Thanks for joining us.

CNN NEWSROOM continues with Brooke Baldwin right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)