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Critical Questions About Pakistani Intelligence; Inside Osama bin Laden's Compound; Many Congressional Leaders Not Ready to 'Forgive' Pakistan; You're Hired!; Islamic Burial Explained
Aired May 04, 2011 - 10:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Live from Studio 7, I'm Suzanne Malveaux.
We have a lot going on over the next two hours, including my exclusive interview with former President Jimmy Carter.
More on that coming up, but first I want to get you up to speed.
CIA Director Leon Panetta says he thinks a photograph of Osama bin Laden's corpse should and will be released. The White House has not yet decided.
Officials worry that the grisly photos could inflame extremists. Others argue that the picture could refute any bin Laden supporters who say that his death is an American trick.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WENDY CHAMBERLAIN, FMR. U.S. AMB. TO PAKISTAN: I've seen the picture and it's pretty gruesome. It's very clearly Osama bin Laden. His eye is mutilated, I assume where the bullet went through it. But you can recognize his facial features, his distinctive lips, his beard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: The White House is now backtracking on some details of the raid that killed bin Laden. Officials now say bin Laden was not armed, nor did he shield himself behind one or more women. But they say he did resist capture. Now, the White House is blaming the errors on the rush to get information out, even as details of the operation were coming in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Ten years after his Ground Zero pledge is fulfilled, George W. Bush declines President Obama's invitation to appear with him at the World Trade Center site tomorrow. A spokesman says the former president prefers to stay out of the spotlight. President Obama will meet with 9/11 families in lower Manhattan tomorrow at this time. We're going to have live coverage in the CNN NEWSROOM.
Want to go in depth now into critical questions about Pakistani intelligence and Osama bin Laden's hideout. Now, CIA Director Leon Panetta, he says of the Pakistanis, either they were involved or incompetent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEON PANETTA, CIA DIRECTOR: We don't really have any intelligence that indicates that Pakistan was aware that bin Laden was there or that this compound was a place where he was hiding. But having said that, this was a location that was very close to a military academy, it was close to other sensitive military sites. It had been there since almost five years ago. It was very unusual as a compound.
I just think they need to respond to the questions about why they did not know that that kind of compound existed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Pakistan says it's now dismayed at Panetta's assertions.
Want to go live to Islamabad and our Reza Sayah.
Reza, a lot of people, yes, they've got questions about the Pakistanis and how it's possible that you had Osama bin Laden in a place that was really near this military facility in a major city.
What are officials saying, the people that you're talking to on the ground?
REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Suzanne, officials want the world to believe that they didn't know that bin Laden was hiding out in this $1 million mansion just blocks away from military facilities. And their position is this -- they essentially say there's lots of people in Pakistan, 180 million people, and there could be some rogue former military officials, spy officials, who could have helped bin Laden hide out, but they say, as an institution, the Pakistani army or the spy agencies had nothing to do with this hideout.
And they want everyone to believe this, but obviously not everyone is believing. Many U.S. officials suspicious, others are outraged.
MALVEAUX: And Reza, Washington, the government, did not tell Islamabad of the raid in advance. They feared that it would jeopardize whether or not it would be actually held a secret.
Now, going forward, does it change the relationship, you think, between the United States and the Pakistanis in terms of sharing information or perhaps not sharing information now?
SAYAH: Well, I think it's a damaging blow, but it's not a death blow when it comes to changing -- exchanging information. And it's simply because two countries still need one another desperately.
The U.S. needs Pakistan in one day, perhaps hammering out a political solution, and neighboring Afghanistan, which would lead to U.S. troop withdrawals. And Pakistan needs the U.S. in giving its weak government credibility, helping with its economy, and most importantly, giving it some leverage with its neighbor, the archrival in India.
So, I think you'll still have the exchange of information and intelligence, but certainly some harsh words being exchanged between CIA Director Leon Panetta and ISI officials, the top spy agency. One official calling Mr. Panetta's comments "regrettable" today.
MALVEAUX: And Reza, how is it playing out with the Pakistani people, the public itself? Do they believe their own government story here? Do they support this unilateral attack on their own soil, on their own country?
SAYAH: Suzanne, some believe the story, some don't. Some support the attack that took out the most wanted man in the world, and others don't. But I think when you talk to most people in Pakistan, they're tired of being linked with extremism, terrorism, and bin Laden. They think the overwhelming majority of people in this country are good, peace-loving people who are just tired of being linked with extremism and they just want it to go away.
MALVEAUX: All right. Reza Sayah, thank you so much for joining us.
We're going to go in depth, into Washington's reaction to Pakistan. That's going to happen at the bottom of the hour. Our CNN Foreign Affairs Correspondent Jill Dougherty, she's going to join us live from the State Department.
Also, here's your chance to "Talk Back" on one of the big stories of the day. Today's question: Should the United States release the Osama bin Laden photos?
Carol, a lot of people talking about this.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
MALVEAUX: And we've heard from some folks who have seen that photo. They know what it looks like, how grisly it is. Is it appropriate?
COSTELLO: Well, the people lining up on both sides of that issue.
The photos are described as gruesome. The shot to Osama bin Laden's face apparently blew off a piece of his skull. So if the government has confirmed through facial recognition and DNA that it's really bin Laden, why do we need to see these grisly photos of his corpse?
Even lawmakers are split on the issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: I just don't see a need to do it. The DNA has been positive.
SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (I), CONNECTICUT: Unless al Qaeda acknowledged that bin Laden was dead, it was important for the United States to release the picture of his body that confirmed that he is dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: As if to prove that point, the Taliban says it doesn't believe it. The administration is worried though that releasing these graphic photos will spark violent acts of revenge. But a CNN poll found 56 percent of Americans want these photos released, not to mention those conspiracy theorists all over Twitter and Facebook.
Even the son of a 9/11 victim is demanding more proof, saying, "They should submit video. It would be somewhat gruesome but it's something we should be able to see."
The thing is, most people do believe bin Laden's dead. So why is it so important to see the death photos?
Well, here's one big reason. Osama bin Laden remains a heroic, defiant figure to many in the Islamic world. As CNN terror analyst Peter Bergen says, seeing bin Laden really, truly dead will end the myth and puncture what remains of his heroic glow among his followers.
So, the "Talk Back" question today: Should the U.S. release the bin Laden death photos?
Facebook.com/CarolCNN. I'll read your responses later this hour.
MALVEAUX: And I understand if it happens, it's going to happen fairly quickly. So we'll see what the White House, the administration, decides.
And Carol, I wanted to tell you, I had a chance to interview former president Jimmy Carter yesterday at his office in Plains, Georgia. He weighed in on this. We asked him that very question. We asked him about, what is the significance of bin Laden's death? And I want to play a little bit for you.
COSTELLO: Interesting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Osama bin Laden is dead.
JAMES CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes.
MALVEAUX: What is the significance?
CARTER: I think it's quite significant. I wouldn't say that the threat of terrorism is eliminated, but I think it's substantially reduced.
MALVEAUX: Do you think that President Obama, now, having brought bin Laden to justice, will serve another term?
CARTER: Well, it's too early to predict. I hope so. And I believe this has substantially enhanced his political standing, his reputation among people, particularly those that didn't think he was a strong, competent person that could carry out a mission successfully.
MALVEAUX: Is the war on terror over? Is it time to get out of Afghanistan?
CARTER: I would hope that this could expedite our exit from Afghanistan, but certainly the war's not over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: He has a very pragmatic approach about this, and he talks about the role of Afghanistan and Pakistan. And unlike many administration officials, says that we need Pakistan, it's a nuclear power, and we still need them, and we need to look the other way sometimes if we suspect that they're not cooperating.
COSTELLO: I know. And you can never ignore that fact, that they do have nuclear weapons. And the big worry from the United States' standpoint is if somebody nefarious gets a hold of those nuclear weapons. And then what might happen?
MALVEAUX: Right. Right.
COSTELLO: So you want the government that's in place now to kind of stay there, and you want to be kind of friendly with that government.
MALVEAUX: So we have a lot more with Carter and his own experience with going ahead with a military --
COSTELLO: How old is he?
MALVEAUX: Eighty-six years old. He's spry, he's interesting, he's exciting. Yes. It's a really great --
COSTELLO: He just came back from North Korea, too.
MALVEAUX: I spent about an hour with him yesterday. It was really quite amazing.
COSTELLO: I can't wait to hear more.
MALVEAUX: All right. Thanks, Carol.
Much more of my exclusive interview with President Carter throughout the next two hours, including whether or not he thinks the death of bin Laden is the end to the war on terror.
Well, 200 square miles of Missouri farmland are under water today. The Army Corps of Engineers blew up a levee to lower water on the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers and save the town of Cairo, Illinois. The floodwaters will flow back into the Mississippi through two blown levees down river. Farmers aren't happy about the manmade flood.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So many emotions. It's hard to explain it. The biggest ones, sick to your stomach. And farming is all I ever have done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: A 93-year-old woman is just fine today after the Missouri National Guard rescued her from floodwaters. She tried to drive across a highway that had been swamped by the Black River.
Here's a rundown of some of the top stories we're covering in the next two hours.
U.S. officials revising now details of the assault that killed Osama bin Laden. We're going to go live to where it happened.
Also, anatomy of a raid. What went down wasn't the only option being considered.
Plus, bin Laden's buried at sea. We're going to look at Islamic funeral traditions.
And a week after a deadly storm of tornadoes, cleanup and recovery in Alabama.
Finally, more of my exclusive interview with former president Jimmy Carter. Does he think the war on terror is over?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MALVEAUX: New details are emerging about who was inside the compound where bin Laden was killed and what happened to those left behind after the raid.
Our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson, he's going to join us. He is at the scene with new information.
Nic, what have you learned?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we have learned is that there were 17 to 18 people inside the compound, that four men were killed, that the woman with bin Laden believed possibly to be his wife was shot in the leg. And all the people who were injured or nearly moved out of the way of the killing of bin Laden and the others there were left for Pakistani authorities to round up later, and the Pakistani government now has custody of those people and is providing those with medical treatment that require it, and says they will repatriate them to their countries of origin.
It certainly provides a little more clarity on who was actually in the building at time and how events unfolded. Of course, the key issue is what bin Laden was doing precisely if he didn't have a weapon. What moves was he making? What impression was he creating? That his next move, was it going to be a violent move or was he nearly moving to try and hide and defend himself?
MALVEAUX: And Nic, what is happening at compound now? We are seeing pictures of that compound inside. Do we know what is taking place today on the ground?
ROBERTSON: Well, earlier in the day, the police had sealed off the compound again, and there were vehicles seen approaching it, what looked like government official vehicles, a helicopter coming down, close to it as well. Impossible to say what and who was going on, or exactly who was visiting the compound. But it did give the impression that at least the government officials of some type were going in to take a look.
Later in the day, though, that police guard, the security -- and the extended the perimeter about 500 yards from the compound -- relaxed, and people were able to get up to it again. And as we saw yesterday, just a handful of police really guarding it now.
Not clear what the long-term plans are of the building, if the government does plan to blow it up to stop it turning into a shrine, or whether they'll just try and keep it. It does seem though that it is drawing and continues to draw quite a crowd -- Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: Do they fear that if the compound remains, that people will praise bin Laden, that he will go down as a martyr, there will be a place for people to actually gather and to consider him a hero in some ways?
ROBERTSON: I think that is the concern, that if you leave the building, it becomes a shrine of sorts for anyone who is sympathetic to al Qaeda to come to. And not only that, beyond that, for this town, this has been a very peaceful town, 500,000 people. It hasn't experienced the violence that the rest of the country has experienced. But now it's going to be tarnished with this image as the place where bin Laden finally holed up and was killed, where the world's most wanted terrorist could hide out.
That's not a reputation this city wants. What happens to the house, likely could be determined by the central government. But for many people in this city, they would like any association to do with bin Laden just to be erased, because they want this city to be remembered for what it is, a place of education, a place of -- an institutional city, and not somewhere where bin Laden spent his final days -- Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: And Nic, I understand that you are learning new details today.
ROBERTSON: Well, some of the interesting things that we're hearing, what we're trying to find out, is could bin Laden really have lived in the building without Pakistan's intelligence services knowing? And there were definitely two schools of thought.
And this is a city that is growing rapidly, and it also has a big population that comes in, in the summer, because it's cooler and it's a better place to live. And it does provide an environment, some people say, where bin Laden really could have chosen to come specifically for that reason, transient population, wouldn't draw attention.
But there are others here, significant people -- I talked to the head of the bar association in this city, lawyers believing that the United States shouldn't have come in here. They're against the attack, they're against their own government. In fact, they believe that all of this about bin Laden is hogwash. They won't believe it until they see photographic proof, evidence that he was here and that he was killed here.
And they're of the opinion that if he did live here, then the intelligence services must have known. But their point is that they don't trust their government, they don't trust the United States. And this is the sort of backlash that the government here worries about a lot -- Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: All right. Nic Robertson, thank you so much for your report.
The raid on Osama bin Laden's compound, it didn't quite play out as planned. It wasn't the only option that was actually being looked at.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MALVEAUX: Details are emerging about the precisely choreographed raid on Osama bin Laden's compound. We now have the strategy that played out in Pakistan. We know it was not the only option that was under consideration.
Well, CNN's Suzanne Kelly explains, President Obama's intelligence team looked at other equally complex plans before the president made the final decision.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUZANNE KELLY, CNN EXECUTIVE PRODUCER (voice-over): The U.S. had at least two scenarios ready. One, drop a bomb on the compound. Minimal U.S. risk, but there would likely be collateral damage and maybe no body to prove bin Laden had been killed. The other, to send in a highly-trained Special Ops team without telling the Pakistanis.
We now know the president picked the latter. It was risky and there were no guarantees.
JOHN BRENNAN, WHITE HOUSE COUNTERTERRORISM ADVISER: There was nothing that confirmed that bin Laden was at that compound. KELLY: And there were haunting reminders of similar missions gone wrong, like the one portrayed in the movie "Black Hawk Down," recounting the 1993 mission in Somalia in which 18 Americans were killed. Despite the risks, the decision was made to go in.
The Pakistanis said Tuesday that the U.S. helicopters involved in the operation took advantage of gaps in Pakistani radar coverage due to the hilly terrain to fly undetected. According to U.S. officials, the Navy SEALs landed in the compound and met with resistance.
They shot three men. One of them, bin Laden's son. They also encountered the former head of al Qaeda himself. The White House now says he was unarmed.
The SEALs shot bin Laden twice, once in the head, once in the chest. Then they uploaded images of the dead man to compare it with face recognition software. But the mission wasn't over.
One of the helicopters wasn't able to fly, so they destroyed it before stealing away with bin Laden's body. The intelligence path that led to this moment started many years earlier, in secret CIA prisons and here, at Guantanamo, where detainees were being held by the U.S.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's kind of like a novel. They're interrogating high-value detainees like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, for example. They're getting some information about possible couriers who may be helping Osama bin Laden.
KELLY: One name kept coming up -- Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti. Other detainees told interrogators al-Kuwaiti was a courier and a trusted member of Osama bin Laden's entourage, as well as associate of alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
(on camera): A lead that eventually paid off, delivering not only bin Laden himself, but what the CIA director calls an impressive haul of information, likely leading U.S. officials down an entirely new intelligence trail.
Suzanne Kelly, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: One of his greatest achievements in office was bringing together two rival nations in a tumultuous Middle East, Egypt and Israel. Jimmy Carter says you have to have all sides at the negotiating table, including what the Obama administration calls a terrorist organization -- Hamas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARTER: There have been atrocities committed by Hamas and also by Fatah. And, of course, on occasion, a lot of Palestinians are killed who are not combatant. So things happen in a case of serious disagreement. But this new agreement, in my opinion, is a major step forward that can bring, ultimately, what I've wanted for the past more than 30 years, and that is peace in Israel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: We'll have more of my exclusive interview with former President Carter.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MALVEAUX: Here's a rundown of some of the stories that we are working on now.
More of my exclusive interview with former president Jimmy Carter. He tell me what he thinks of bin Laden's death, plus a closer look at Pakistan's relationship with the United States.
Then, the U.S. raid that killed bin Laden was not the only option. We're going to look at what else was on the table.
And 30 minutes from now, the rush to bury bin Laden at sea. Did it really follow Islamic tradition?
CNN In Depth -- a war, but with what end?
I spoke with former president Jimmy Carter at his office in Plains, Georgia, yesterday, and the killing of bin Laden and Pakistan's importance in the war on terror were just some of the things that we talked about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: What do you make of the fact that Osama bin Laden was found in Pakistan, in a city -- a $1 million home -- not far from Islamabad? Do we think that we can trust the Pakistani government, Zardari?
CARTER: I think when we're in doubt about Pakistan, we have to give them the benefit of the doubt.
MALVEAUX: Why?
CARTER: Because they're so crucial. You have to remember that Pakistan probably has at least 100 nuclear weapons. And I think that our alliance with Pakistan, despite some obvious difficulties, is extremely important.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: So, President Carter says we have to forgive them if they make mistakes. But not everybody in the government, the United States government, is ready to forgive Pakistan.
I want to bring in our foreign affairs correspondent, Jill Dougherty, who's at the State Department.
And Jill, many top U.S. officials, they want some answers here. I know you've been talking to folk. What do they want to hear from the Pakistanis now?
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, the overriding question is, how could Osama bin Laden be living there next to their equivalent of West Point without somebody knowing about it? And there are various levels.
Number one, concretely, they're pressing the Pakistanis to give them specific information, things like who owned the compound, when was it built, what kind of security did it have. And then the second level would be, remember the computers and the hard drives that the Navy SEALs took out of the compound. They're now being analyzed, and they're looking for any information that they could glean. And that would be not only on the compound, but communications that bin Laden might be having with various people that could lead them to obviously, you know -- the question would be, were there any high level or any type of communications or connection with Pakistani officials?
And then, I think the thing would be, you know, you have these personal meetings and one of them took place in Islamabad, when the special rep from the United States Mark Grossman met with the president, the head of military and intelligence and this subject came up.
And Suzanne, one thing that we are hearing, and this could be entirely possible, officials are telling us there could be people at the top who did not know and they have said they did not know. But there might be people who are below and lower rank whose would have some type of connection.
So it's -- there's no compelling evidence at this point that the government, the senior officials, knew about it. But there's still a lot of information.
MALVEAUX: Sure. And Jill, I know there's a ground swell on Capitol Hill to cut billions of dollars from funding to Pakistan now. First of all, is it likely to happen? And secondly, what would that do in terms of our efforts to work with Pakistan to fight terrorism?
DOUGHERTY: Well, you're right. There's a ground swell and people want to, in essence, say you know, punish Pakistan. But others are warning, and you heard that from Jimmy Carter, that if the, let's say if they did pull the plug, freezing or ending funding for Pakistan, it could be -- it could have a bad effect in that Pakistan already fragile, the government already fragile. If they were to collapse, they do have nuclear weapons. And that sounds like the nightmare scenario, but also shy of that, they are very important in the war on terror, even though it's a very mixed bag and even though there is enormous lack of faith and doubt on both sides.
MALVEAUX: All right. Jill Dougherty, thank you so much for putting into perspective.
We are getting reaction from Afghanistan, as well. Many people still there sympathize with bin Laden. Our Stan Grant takes us a crowded marketplace in Kabul.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STAN GRANT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Osama bin Laden made his life here amongst these people in Afghanistan for years. He first came here as part of the Arab mujahidin to fight against the Soviets. He then aligned his al Qaeda network to the Taliban. The Taliban themselves gave him protection while he plotted 9/11.
Even after the U.S. invasion and the toppling of the Taliban regime, they still refused to give up bin Laden. Walking around this crowded marketplace today, you can still find some sympathy for the dead terrorist leader.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It's not at all good for Islam that he's dead.
GRANT: For many of these people, all they have known is war. The battle with the soviets, the civil war then for control of the country, the years under the Taliban and, of course, the American invasion and the battle that we've seen here for the past decade. It's a gritty life. People find their life where they can, they make their living wherever they can find it.
These people, of course, are concerned about their future. One of the things on their mind is whether the Taliban will come back, whether bin Laden's death is a game changer, whether or when the U.S. will actually leave Afghanistan. Many people looking forward to the day when there is no more foreign interference in this country.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Why should Americans come and run my country? I don't go to other countries. I can run my country.
GRANT: Amongst the people that I've spoken to here, you don't find an overwhelmingly negative attitude to the Taliban. Some here say that the Taliban may come back to power and may play a constructive role in the future of the country.
There's a mixed attitude to Hamid Karzai, and whether he, in fact, is a strong enough leader to be able to build this country. What they all do call for is unity. They want the Afghan people to bind together, that when al Qaeda is gone, when the Taliban is gone, whatever happens in the future of this country, they able to build that future together.
Stan Grant, CNN, Kabul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: Floodwaters start to drop around Cairo, Illinois, after an intentional levee breach. But across the Mississippi River in Missouri, there's a lot of farmers who are upset. Their land now covered with water. We're going to go live to the flood zone.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MALVEAUX: One week after a massive tornado outbreak, parts of the south are shifting their focus from rescue now to recovery. Alabama, as you know, was hit the hardest and the state's governor is promising quick action to clean up and rebuild. More than 20 large tornadoes touched down in Alabama, killing at least 250 people.
We have live pictures now of a tornado relief fundraiser. It's going on all day in Birmingham, and it's sponsored by our affiliate, WVTM, and the United Way.
Well, the decision to blow up a levee along the Mississippi River has eased the flooding crisis around Cairo, Illinois. Water levels have started to drop now. But now tens of thousands of acres of Missouri farmland are underwater. And a lot of farmers very upset.
CNN's Rob Marciano is in Mississippi County, Missouri.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Day two of the exploding levee extravaganza. Extreme measures taken for really an extreme flood event. We haven't seen this level on the river here in Mississippi and along the Ohio since 1937. And yesterday they blew up a second levee.
Take a look at this video, extraordinary stuff, during the daytime. Soil and earth being blown above the tree tops. That is at the opposite end of this floodway so that some of this water can begin to drain. This is farmland. This is now not so good farmland, at least for this year. And that has a lot of farmers upset. There's class-action lawsuits happening, the state of Missouri not happy about the solution that they've had.
We tracked down one famer, a retired farmer, old timer who was here during the 1930s flood and here'd what he had to say about the situation.
NORBERT ROLWING, RETIRED FARMER: Some of them are farming a lot of acres and they've just been lucky these last few years that they haven't had a flood. This is one of the things that happens once in a great while and it just had to take it on the chin.
MARCIANO: Needless to say, it's not just farmers who are affected. There are hundreds if not thousands of homes that are going to be flooded in this situation and there are several towns that are completely evacuated.
We went out yesterday with the Illinois DNR and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and they toured us around a couple of spots, this one in Olive Branch, where the entire area flooded out. The roadway, now water rushing over it. And these folks won't get back into homes probably for several days, if not several weeks because the water's going to kind of remain steady here.
Even though they've released some of the pressure, now they're releasing more water upstream that's been held there in dams with all of the rain that we've seen in the last couple of weeks. This is going to affect people here for another week or so before the waters even begin to recede somewhat. And then downstream and through Memphis and Mississippi and eventually Louisiana, for the next couple of weeks -- Suzanne.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Thank you, Rob.
I want to go to Jacqui Jeras. I understand, Jacqui, you have some dramatic pictures of before and after this flood, right?
JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes. This is satellite imagery that we got in from NASA here. And this is what the floodway area where Rob is looked like on satellite picture a week ago.
So this is last week. Now watch as I advance this. Look at how that whole area right there just flooded. And so that's 130,000 acres that they've been talking about that have been inundated with that water.
Now I also want to show you the river gauge here at this area. And this will show you at Cairo where it was when it reached its peak 61.72 feet, and there you can see that dramatic drop once they did explode that levee in that area. And you can see the forecast showing it, it's expected to stay very high, right around that 60 feet all the way into next week for sure.
Now, here's a second satellite image that I want to show you that just kind of shows this whole area a little bit better. And this is a satellite image from a year ago, April. So this is what the Mississippi River normally looks like. Now are you ready? That's what it looks like now.
So just an incredible amount of water all over the place. There's the Ohio River. Here's the Black River, where we've also had some levee problems. So this is hundreds of miles that we're talking about dealing with this extensive flooding.
(WEATHER REPORT)
MALVEAUX: It was historic victory for President Obama, the death of the world's most wanted man. And former President Jimmy Carter, he sees it as a potential game changer for al Qaeda. I spoke with him at his Plains, Georgia, office yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Osama bin Laden is dead.
CARTER: Yes.
MALVEAUX: What is the significance?
CARTER: I think it's quite significant. I wouldn't say that the threat of terrorism is eliminated but I think it's substantially reduced.
MALVEAUX: Do you think that President Obama now having brought bin Laden to justice will serve another term?
CARTER: Well, it's too early to predict. I hope so. And I believe this has substantially enhanced his political standing, his reputation among people, particularly those that didn't think he was a strong, competent person that could carry out a mission successfully.
MALVEAUX: Is the war on terror over? Is it time to get out of Afghanistan?
CARTER: I would hope that this could expedite our exit from Afghanistan but certainly the war's not over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: I'll be back with more of my interview with Jimmy Carter. I'll ask him about 1980, the year his own secret military mission ended in disaster.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MALVEAUX: The similarities are striking, a covert military operation with American lives on the line, but the endings could not have been more different for the secret assaults launched by President Obama and President Carter.
I speak with Carter about what it takes to make those life and death decisions.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: November 4, 1979, you authorize, clearly, a mission to go in to rescue Americans who had been held hostage in Iran. You know what it's like to authorize a mission as President Obama did.
What goes on, as president, through your head, through your heart, when you know American lives are on the line?
CARTER: Well, it's extremely complex. We had instead of one person as a target, we had more than 50 as a target. We had to send in large expeditionary force from a long distance away, and it involved eight helicopters, three C-130s and large backup all over in the desert area of Iran.
It was heartbreaking to me when it didn't succeed completely.
MALVEAUX: And some people think if it had been successful you would have been able to serve another four years.
Do you think that President Obama, now, having brought bin Laden to justice, will serve another term?
CARTER: Well, it's too early to predict.
I hope so, and I believe this has substantially enhanced his political standing, his reputation among people, particularly those that didn't think he was a strong, competent person that could carry out a mission successfully.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: More of my exclusive one-on-one interview with former President Jimmy Carter in the next hour of NEWSROOM. But up next, former President Carter weighs in on raising girls in the White House.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MALVEAUX: Thirty years ago, President Carter was raising 10- year-old Amy in the White House; I remember that. Well, now as a great-grandfather he has advice for President Obama on politics, but he's shy on parenting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Any advice for the Obamas with Sasha and Malia?
CARTER: No, not really. I think they've handled their daughters very well.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: A little shy there on advice for the Obamas.
Well, at any time the White House could announce its decision to release photos of bin Laden's body, which brings us to the "Talk Back" question, our Carol Costello.
I know a lot of people are talking about this today.
(CROSSTALK)
COSTELLO: We got a lot of responses to this question, absolutely.
The "Talk Back" question today: Should the United States release the bin Laden death photos?
This from Sara, "I don't believe so. That's just another reason for the extremists to call us 'ugly Americans.' He's dead and I personally don't believe we should be dancing on his grave."
This from Jessica, "Honestly, I want to see it, but it may make it worse on our soldiers overseas. My husband is serving in Operation Enduring Freedom and it makes me very worried for him."
This from Gayle, "Yes, we have a right to see them. For those who do not want to see them, don't look. I'll be a part of the healing process for many. We should see it all, the death video, the burial, the pictures, everything. We've been in this together from the start. I'm sure repercussions are planned now anyway regardless if all this is shown." And this from Henry, "Absolutely, they should. More so now because the story has changed day to day on what happened and it just makes you wonder."
And this from Kate, "Even in death he is commanding the attention of the world. Good riddance to bad rubbish."
Keep the conversation going, Facebook.com/Carol CNN, Facebook.com/Carol CNN, and I'll be back with you in about 15 minutes.
MALVEAUX: All right. Thanks, Carol.
COSTELLO: Sure.
MALVEAUX: If you're looking for a job, there is a glimmer, a glimmer of hope. We're seeing signs of some slow improvement. Employers added 179,000 positions, that in April. A number of planned job cuts fell.
But the unemployment rate remains high at 8.8 percent, so college grads, listen up. Carmen Wong Ulrich is here with some tips on how to start your career on the right foot.
CARMEN WONG ULRICH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Hi, Suzanne.
Well, employers report that they'll hire 19 percent more new college grads this year than last year, and salaries are going to be starting around $50,000 on average, which is all good news and it's according to the national Association of Colleges and Employers.
So now, first, if you're looking to land that post-grad gig, well get ready to network. An employer can look you up on your social media sites. So get rid of any photos of you on Facebook or Twitter that may show you in an unflattering light.
And make sure that your e-mail address and voicemail greeting is professional and appropriate, and respond to all inquiries as soon as possible. Don't wait.
Now, stay in touch with your school's career center as well as their alumni office. They can match you up with contacts in your desired field.
Now, listen, employers take 30 seconds or less to review a resume. So highlight your accomplishments and work in and out of the classroom, especially if you're light on professional experience. Hiring managers are going to want to see that you've been active. List your internships, part-time jobs, volunteer and class work, involvement in clubs and sports, because according to career builder, these are all things that employers say they count as relevant experience.
Also check in with your former intern manager as well. Internship very important, a recent surveys showed employers recruited more than half of their interns for full-time positions last year. So that could be an easier way to get your foot in the door. And finally, first impressions, very important, they count. When it comes to that interview, some of the biggest mistakes college grads make is not turning off your cell phone, dressing inappropriately and acting entitled.
And don't forget to send that thank you. More than one in five hiring managers said they're less likely to hire someone if they don't send a thank you note. Little things make a very big difference -- Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: Thank you, Carmen.
I'm going to have more after the break with my exclusive interview with former President Jimmy Carter.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MALVEAUX: The U.S. government says that bin Laden was buried in accordance with Islamic traditions, but some fundamentalists say that that's not true. This was the scene in central Pakistan today where a group held funeral prayers for bin Laden.
So what are the Islamic traditions when it comes to burial, and why the discrepancy? We're going to go in-depth with Carl Azuz.
And, Carl, give us a sense why was the United States government in such a rush to bury bin Laden at sea?
CARL AZUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, for one thing, Suzanne, the U.S. government, the U.S. military were trying to walk a fine line with this. Because, on the one hand, they wanted to give a proper and somewhat respectful burial, even to a mortal enemy like bin Laden.
But on the other hand they didn't want to bury him in a place where there would be security concerns for the country where he was buried or the grave where he was buried.
So a few factors came into play here. One of those factors is that there were no nations, according to the United States, that were willing or able to accept bin Laden's body. So you have that.
There are concerns, part of the reason for that, concerns about security at the grave. Would it become a rallying point for bin Laden's supporters? Would someone try to exhume the body, perhaps an enemy of bin Laden or somebody who actually wanted to see the body?
Another thing that came into play was that delay in burial would have violated an Islamic rule that says a body should be buried as soon as possible after it is deceased. So by transferring the body to another country, maybe planning a burial, that might have violated that rule.
MALVEAUX: So, Carl, what does Islamic say about this kind of burial?
AZUZ: Well, as far as burials at sea go, only in rare circumstances. There are a few principles in Islamic law specifically surrounding burial. One of those is that the grave should be deep enough to protect the body. That could be protection from animals, it could be protection from an enemy of the deceased.
The body should be laid on its right side facing toward Mecca, the Muslim spiritual center located in Saudi Arabia.
As far as burial at sea goes, only in very rare circumstances is this permitted, according to Muslim scholars. Some say if someone is making a pilgrimage to the Haj in Saudi Arabia, the person dies onboard a boat at sea, then it might be acceptable.
Another case when it might be acceptable, according to some scholars, is if there's a concern that an enemy might exhume or desecrate the body.
So certainly all of those security concerns at a gravesite came into play here, Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: All right. Carl, thank you very much.
AZUZ: Thank you, Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: Appreciate it.
