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President Obama to Visit Ground Zero; President Obama to Visit Engine 54; Secret Stealth Chopper Used?; Man Known for 9/11 Bullhorn Picture

Aired May 05, 2011 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And hello to all of you. Good morning. I'm Carol Costello sitting in for Kyra Phillips.

Solidarity, support and closure. Today, President Obama visits Ground Zero. Later this hour the president heads to New York's emotional epicenter of the 9/11 attacks.

In the meantime, there are new details on the raid that killed Osama bin Laden. "The New York Times" is reporting that the Navy SEALs came under fire only when they first stormed the compound.

And Secretary of State Hillary Clinton says the United States must continue working with Pakistan in the fight against terrorism. Clinton is responding to widespread doubts about Pakistan's reliability after bin Laden was discovered living in a military town there.

And just minutes from now, President Obama is scheduled to leave the White House bound for New York. There, he has a very full schedule.

CNN has learned that the president will visit the city's Engine 54 Firehouse this morning. Fifteen firefighters from that station were killed on September 11th. At Ground Zero, the will play a wreath. He will not deliver a speech. He'll also meet privately with family members of some of those that died in the attacks.

Jason Carroll joins us live now.

And Jason, this is a very different Ground Zero than what we saw right after 9/11 or even two years ago.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. Most different since the last time President Obama was here in 2008.

So many changes that we've seen here in the city, Carol. I know you know about some of these changes. I mean you just think about the memorial plaza. That's expected to be completed just in time for the 9/11 event that's expected to take place here later this year.

The reflecting pools already complete. And then when you think of the World Trade Center, number one, the so-called Freedom Tower, already at 64 stories. So, so much has been completed when we are down here. We see everything that's been done. Some 150 trees planted at the site. Many changes have taken place since the last time the president was here back in 2008.

COSTELLO: And in speaking about the president's visit, some conservatives are saying this is sort of a -- going to be a campaign commercial for President Obama. He is doing a victory lap, which is sort of unsightly.

What do the people of New York feel?

CARROLL: Well, I think when you listen to what New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg has said about today's event where he basically said this is a moment for the city and the nation to reflect and also a moment to have some justice.

And I think a lot of people here in New York feel that way about the president's visit, as well, which is you know has been marked by some controversy because as you know the president will be meeting with 9/11 families and First Responders. But not all the 9/11 families, in fact, were invited to meet with the president.

We of course reached out to some who were invited to speak with the president, and others who were not. For example, Jim Riches was invited, he lost his son, Jimmy, a firefighter. He was fortunate enough to be able to meet with the president. But on the flipside of that, Bob Hughes and his wife Elaine, they lost their son. They will not be meeting with the president.

So I want you to listen to what both of those -- both of what they had to say about what's going to be happening later today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF JIM RICHES, FORMER DEPUTY CHIEF, FDNY: I feel sorry for them. I wish everyone could have been there. I mean, I guess, logistically, it doesn't -- it just doesn't work out.

I was one of the lucky ones that's selected. And I hope to represent my group, the family -- parents and families of firefighters and get back to them and tell them all, you know, what happened.

BOB HUGHES, FATHER OF 9/11 VICTIM: I don't want to criticize really the fact that you weren't invited. So the word left out wouldn't be the right word but it would have been nice to be invited and to be able to go down there and, you know, thank the president.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: And very quickly, Carol, just to follow up a little bit more on what Bob and Elaine had to say. If they had been able to meet with the president, they would have told him, you had the guts to do it and you did it well -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Jason Carroll reporting live from Ground Zero.

Now let's look ahead to the president's visit to the New York's Engine 54 Firehouse. The so-called pride of midtown lost 15 firefighters when the twin towers collapsed. CNN's Mary Snow was there.

So, Mary, what are the firefighters saying?

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they say, Carol, that they expect to see the president before he heads to Ground Zero this morning and too -- this morning told us that they plan to thank him for -- in their words -- a job well done. And we hear that they are possibly making lunch to serve him before he heads to Ground Zero.

You know, as one of the firefighters said, this will be -- this visit will be a morale booster. It's really been several days now of mixed feelings. They said they were relieved when Osama bin Laden was killed but they say saddened because it all brought back the memories and the reason why the hunt for Osama bin Laden was taken in the first place.

There was some celebratory moments, though, on Sunday night. And one of the images that really stood out -- an image from Sunday night, it's a "New York times" photograph. And firefighters from Engine 54, Ladder 4, went into Times Square, which is just right -- a couple blocks away to take in the news of Osama bin Laden's death. And they watched the crowd's cheer. And as one of the members told me, he said, you know, he really teared up.

You know he wasn't happy that Osama bin Laden was killed. But he said he -- he was happy to see the crowds cheering and the fact that people were proud of their country. But they said, you know, the elation just lasted a few moments. That they're really always on guard. And then they fear of retaliation.

And, you know, this is one of the busiest firehouses in New York City. So they are constantly on guard -- Carol.

COSTELLO: And it's a great photograph. Maybe they'll include it in the memorial when it's all completed whenever that will be.

Mary Snow, reporting live from New York City. We appreciate it.

Join us for our special coverage of President Obama's visit to Ground Zero. Anderson Cooper takes the reigns at 11:00 a.m. Eastern, 8:00 Pacific Time.

The president's visit comes after his decision to not release photos of Osama bin Laden's dead body. He tells "60 Minutes" that little would be gained by publicly showing those gruesome images.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is important for us to make sure that very graphic photos of somebody who was shot in the head are not floating around as an incitement to additional violence, as a propaganda tool. You know that's not who we are.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP) COSTELLO: As you might expect, the president's decision ignited fierce debate. A former Homeland Security adviser says the public has a right to see visual proof that bin Laden is dead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANCES FRAGOS TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR: It seems the president is terribly concerned with foreign opinion when most Americans want to see these photographs.

And, John, we've spent over 10 years, billions of taxpayer dollars. I think if they want to see them, they ought to be released.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: And Republican Congressman Duncan Hunter echoes that. The combat veteran says, quote, "I want to see them personally. I did three tours, I'm not talking as a member of the Armed Services Committee. As a Marine who did three tours because of 9/11. As Americans, we deserve to see them."

But not all Republicans oppose the president's decision. House Speaker John Boehner says he supports keeping the photos from public view. New York Congressman Peter King as does Senator Orrin Hatch.

At the bottom of the hour we'll hear from another critic of the president' decision. Conservative radio talk show host and CNN contributor Bill Bennett will make his case for releasing the photos.

Also this morning there are new photos from inside the bin Laden compound. The Reuters pictures include graphic images of three bodies. We think they are too graphic for television. But if you want to see them, they are posted along with warnings on CNN.com.

Here's one photo that's not so graphic. It shows the U.S. helicopter that's said to have experienced technical problems. The Navy SEALs destroyed it as they left the compound.

Before the crash, though, that helicopter looked more like this, your basic Black Hawk. But it seems the chopper in pieces in Pakistan is anything but standard issue. It's an amazing piece of machinery.

Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has more of it.

So tell us about the sound or lack thereof this helicopter makes. It's amazing.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, the problem is, we really don't know all that much, do we? I mean people are referring to this as a stealth Black Hawk. Aviation buffs around the world are looking at it saying, what is this thing?

It appears that it's some kind of helicopter that was tailor-made for special operations, special forces, going on these assault missions. We have never seen anything like it before. Aviation buffs who have looked at it, the thinking is that it has some sound shielding qualities on it.

It has low observable qualities as they call it. That means perhaps it wouldn't be that visible in a radar cross section as the helicopters were coming into Pakistan. They were trying to come in very stealthy, so they wouldn't be noticed so the Pakistanis didn't know that they were there.

When you talk about stealth, there's two things involved, low radar cross section and the low noise. Those are the two biggies. And this helicopter may have been optimized for that. It is the one that is left behind because when the SEALs approached the compound, this suffered some kind of mechanical failure. It basically clipped a wall and went down in a hard landing.

The SEALs all got out and they were fine. But the wreckage was left behind so they torched it so this classified piece of equipment would not fall into the hands of the Pakistanis or anybody else. But some of it apparently didn't get so torched. It was left behind for the world to see. And now the world is wondering what exactly it is. And as far as we know, the Pakistanis have the wreckage -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Barbara Starr, reporting live from Washington. Thank you.

We also have a more complete list of what was recovered from the compound. One U.S. official tells CNN the commandos found about five cell phones in addition to audio and video equipment. They also discovered some five guns, including pistols and AK-47 assault rifles. And intelligence experts are sifting through lots of paper documents.

A Georgia pastor says Osama bin Laden mangled Islam into something unrecognizable and he's also helped to change Christianity. I'll ask him about that and about praying for bin Laden in about 20 minutes.

We're also talking to the accidental icon, the retired New York City firefighter at Ground Zero when President Bush popped up beside him and rallied the nation from the rubble. We'll find out if he is going to Ground Zero today for the ceremony.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: The name Bob Beckwith might not ring a bell with you. But you might remember his place in 9/11 history, right next to President Bush at Ground Zero.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT: And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Beckwith is the retired New York City firefighter who is at Ground Zero looking for a friend's missing son. President Bush jumped up next to him and rallied First Responders through that bullhorn.

Who could forger that moment? And Beckwith was part of it. That was him then and here he is now.

Welcome.

BOB BECKWITH, RETIRED NY FIREFIGHTER: Thank you.

COSTELLO: When you see that video, what goes through your mind?

BECKWITH: It brings back a lot of bad memories and a lot of good memories but mostly bad memories of the times that we lost all those guys and a lot of people, cops.

COSTELLO: And --

BECKWITH: Port Authority guys, firemen. Go ahead.

COSTELLO: I was just going to ask you, when President Bush took that bullhorn and started talking, you had a smile on your face. What were you thinking?

BECKWITH: I was thinking, wow, here I am a commoner, standing with the president of the United States. I mean, that's, wow. That was -- that to me was big time.

COSTELLO: And what did President Bush's words mean to you?

BECKWITH: Well, he lifted us all, every one of us that were down there. And there was a lot of us volunteers, a lot of us working guys that came back, came in. And all these people, they lifted us up. And, you know, when he finished that speech, we were all ready to go back and try and find some of these guys or anybody that was still alive underneath the rubble.

COSTELLO: Yes. And found later, there weren't any.

BECKWITH: He gave us a nice lift.

COSTELLO: So, flash forward to today when President Obama will be at Ground Zero. He'll lay a wreath there. Will you be there today, sir?

BECKWITH: I don't know. I don't -- I haven't heard anything yet.

COSTELLO: What do you mean?

BECKWITH: You know, I heard it's by invite and I didn't get one. So, I don't know. You know, I don't know if I'm invited or will I be with anybody down there. So, I'm playing it by ear.

COSTELLO: Do you think it is a good idea that President Obama is going to Ground Zero today?

BECKWITH: I guess. I guess it's OK. Sure, why not?

This is for a big -- this is for a big thing that he helped, that he gave the word for these heroes, the Navy SEALs. He gave the word for them to go in. They went in. They did their job. And they got out. And everybody got out safe. COSTELLO: I know this --

BECKWITH: So, he's got this -- go ahead.

COSTELLO: I know this probably won't bring much closure to many people that lost loved ones in the attacks. But do you think it's good for the country that this is happening today?

BECKWITH: Sure. Why not? You mean, the president coming down here at Ground Zero?

COSTELLO: Yes.

BECKWITH: Yes, it's OK. Sure. But, you know, he -- like I say, he gave the word and he is coming down. So that's OK.

And I'm only speaking for myself. So, I don't see any reason why he can't come down here.

COSTELLO: Mr. Beckwith, many thanks for joining us. We really appreciate it.

BECKWITH: Thank you. Thank you.

COSTELLO: Here's another iconic image from 9/11, President Bush getting word of the attacks. He was visiting an elementary school in Florida. The children he was reading to suddenly back witnesses to history.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is still really meaningful because I was there that day. I did see -- I was kind of there for part of history. So, obviously, I'm always going to remember it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: In the next hour, some of those kids talk about that today, about bin Laden's killing and the years in between. That and much more coverage of Osama bin Laden's death ahead.

But coming up, losing it all to rising floodwaters -- a homeowners heart-wrenching story in her own words.

And a plea deal for a teenager charged in the bullying case that ended in a suicide. Just ahead, details of their surprising sentence.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: We are following all the new developments in the aftermath of the killing of Osama bin Laden, President Obama's visit later today to Ground Zero, and new details on what happened when Navy SEALs moved in on bin Laden's Pakistan compound. That's all just ahead.

But let's talk about the rising floodwaters now that's shattering lives in parts of Kentucky. Rebecca Martin of Calvert City said she woke up two days ago surrounding by water. Now, she's struggling to save what she treasures most, her family memories.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REBECCA MARTIN, FLOOD VICTIM: I want to get the things above my closet, which is old pictures of the family and stuff. That means a lot to me. It's just very much (ph). I'm so sorry for anybody in this situation, because I know how you feel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: The threat of rising water is also wreaking havoc in the Midwest where engineers are flooding farmlands to save town.

Meteorologist Rob Marciano is in Mississippi County, Missouri, along the Mississippi River, where 700 miles of river could still flood. So, Rob, what's going on there today?

ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, the waters haven't gone down a whole lot, even though they have been blasting holes in these levees to flood the floodways.

This is not a river or a lake. This is not a lake. This is the floodway.

This is supposedly dry farmland that's been flooded to alleviate some of that pressure and -- well, it's done just that. But they got more water upstream that they're releasing. So, that's a problem there.

Yesterday, we went out with the USGS and some scientists there to actually take some measurements of the flow of the Mississippi into this floodway. They had to do that to kind of work with the Army Corps of Engineers to figure out what they want to do, what the next step was going to be. And they decided to blow a third hole in this levee. That's going to happen later on today. That's the southern end.

So, this is the northern end. We've got water coming in, kind of taking some of the energy away. Southern end, we'll get water going out and back down into the Mississippi. And that explosion will happen later on this afternoon.

Extraordinary measures, Carol, happening here. And this is not over, because we have more water that's coming down. And more importantly, this water has to go down the river system past Memphis, past Vicksburg, and eventually into the Gulf of Mexico. And they are going to have their own flooding problems as we go on through in the next month or so -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Yes. And you'll be right there. Thank you -- Rob Marciano reporting live from Missouri.

Checking stories across the country now: No jail time for two teenagers in a bullying case in Massachusetts: Sixteen-year-old Phoebe Price hanged herself in the stairwell of her family home after weeks of bullying at school. The teens accused were sentenced to one year probation.

In Tucson, Arizona, six people were arrested at a school board meeting following a heated protest over ethnic studies. Police moved in when protesters refused to allow board members to table discussions about changes in Mexican American studies program.

And in suburban Atlanta, brazen thieves target three dozen police cars. They were parked in a maintenance yard. Police say the thieves got away with a few radios, a laptop, GPS and a camera.

President Obama has decided not to release photos of Osama bin Laden's body. He says nothing will be gained from them.

But one critic says there are at least four good reasons why the public needs to see them. We'll hear those four reasons coming up.

And with Osama bin laden dead, some members of Congress say the president should declare victory in Afghanistan and bring the troops home. We'll tell you what they are doing to force his hand -- just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: And you are, of course, looking at Ground Zero. President Obama travels there today to honor the spirit of Americans and those killed on 9/11. He plans to lay a wreath at the 9/11 memorial and meet with firefighters and families of 9/11 victims. He does not plan to make any remarks.

In the meantime, there are new details on the raid that killed Osama bin Laden. President Obama decided not to release photos of bin Laden's corpse. And, now, White House officials are clamping down on information. They say no new details about the raid will be disclosed, citing the need to protect secret operations in the future.

Still, details are emerging. "The New York Times" reports the firefight was one-sided. According to "The Times," administration officials said the Navy SEALs came under fire only when they first stormed the Pakistani compound on the first floor. And experts believe the U.S. helicopter that crash landed during the operation was the top secret stealth helicopter. It's designed to fly undetected by radar.

An in-depth look now at the cost of the war in Afghanistan. The latest figures show there are 90,000 U.S. troops in that war-torn country. Since the war started back in 2001, the military reports 1,458 American deaths in Afghanistan. And North Carolina Congressman Walter Jones says the war is costing the United States $8 billion every single month.

In the meantime, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton says the United States is more determined than ever to prevail in Afghanistan. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE: I think our resolve is even stronger following bin Laden's death, because we know that it will have an impact on those who are on the battlefield in Afghanistan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Bin Laden's death has renewed efforts in Congress, though, to end the war now. Today, a bipartisan group of lawmakers are expected to unveil legislation, calling for the president to submit to Congress a precise timeline for withdrawing troops.

Congressional correspondent Kate Bolduan joins us live from Capitol Hill.

So, Kate, what are they asking for?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This bipartisan group that you just mentioned, Carol, is led by two members of Congress, Republican congressman from North Carolina, Walter Jones, and Massachusetts Democrat, Jim McGovern. They've long been opposed to the war.

What they're asking for and calling for is that they're saying the White House needs to present a concrete timeline with exit dates of getting out of Afghanistan. And they say it needs to be sooner rather than later. And that's why they're rolling out this bill today and they're hoping to get some momentum. Obviously, they say, specifically, because of the news coming out of Osama bin Laden being killed.

Now, the administration right now, their plans are, of course, to begin with withdrawing troops in July and finishing up in 2014. But as I spoke with Congressman Jones, he said, why wait? with Osama bin Laden out of the picture, let's get out now.

Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. WALTER JONES (R), NORTH CAROLINA: I've been very disappointed in my party quite frankly, because why are we -- we're up here cutting Medicare but we're spending $8 billion a month in Afghanistan -- borrowing money -- but yet we're saying that children and senior citizens in America, we can't help you. Well, it's ironic to me that you want to help Karzai remain in power in Afghanistan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Now Carol, the that they're unveiling today, it calls for a few specific things. It's calling for the president to set and offer a set timeline with specific dates of drawing troops and getting -- removing all U.S. forces in Afghanistan. At the same time it would require that the president provide regular reports to Congress on how much the continued there is costing, including what it would mean for increase in deficits and debt. And at the same time, it's also asking for how much Congress, how much the country could be saving, they would say, if they would accelerate the pullout. They're asking for and calling for something in the neighborhood of within six months. That's what they're calling for today and they're trying to get some momentum this morning.

COSTELLO: That sounds tough to do. Six months. I mean, you can't pull troops out of there on the dime.

How realistic is this plan?

BOLDUAN: And that's a big question, of course. And I think they understand that it's going to be a tough sell and it will be a tough sell, not only here on Capitol Hill but also at the White House.

House Speaker John Boehner, he just said earlier this week that he thinks the death of bin Laden should mean that our engagement in Afghanistan is more important, not less. Democratic leaders, including Nancy Pelosi have said that the administration plans are in place. They don't see the policy changing.

The White House Spokesman Jay Carney, he was asked specifically about this, Carol, and he said flatly, no, the death of bin Laden doesn't change their plans, because as they've continued to say all throughout, the withdrawal of troops while they are beginning in July, it will be based on conditions on the ground.

And they say at this point, that, of course, is the path that they're going and that the plan that they're keeping in place. But Walter Jones and Jim McGovern, they're trying to say the plan -- the situation has now changed. Let's move this faster. We can save money, and they say save lives.

COSTELLO: Kate Bolduan, reporting live from Capitol Hill. Thanks so much.

BOLDUAN: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: Checking our stories now. Nearly two years after the crash of an Air France plane, the body of one of the victims has been recovered from the Atlantic Ocean. The discovery comes just days after the cockpit voice recorder was brought to the surface.

General Motors is recalling more than 150,000 Chevy Cruze 2011 models. There could be a problem with how the steering wheels were installed.

And Hollywood legend Jackie Cooper is dead at 88. Cooper was nominated for an acting Oscan at the age of seven, making him the youngest nominee ever.

And William and Kate, you know, the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, as they're more formerly known. They will be coming to California in July. This will be Kate Middleton's first-ever trip to the United States.

Let's talk sports now. Unlikely heroes can emerge in the playoffs. Take Sean Bergenheim of the NHL's Tampa Bay Lightning. Bergenheim was an average goal scorer in the regular season but now he's tied for the lead in post-season goals. He scores -- there he goes, right off a rebound -- to put the Lightning up, 3-1 on Washington.

And a better known scoring (INAUDIBLE) for Tampa -- Marty St. Louis seals the deal. There he goes. And the Lightning win, 5-3. They sweep the Capitals and move on to the Eastern Conference Finals.

The NBA's defending champs, the L.A. Lakers are in a hole in this season playoffs. Plus, the Baltimore Orioles turn a double play you have got to see to believe. More sports in 20 minutes.

And more of our Osama bin Laden coverage also next, including a spiritual look at his life and death. Is Osama bin Laden in hell? We'll see what people think about that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: The photos of Osama bin Laden's body are in limbo right now. But as for his soul, according to a CNN poll, lots of people believe he went straight to Hell -- 61 percent, in fact. Ten percent do not think he's in Hell. Twenty-four percent are not sure.

Reverend David Lewicki joins us now. He's written piece for CNN's Belief Blog "Bin Laden Died Long Ago."

We found that poll fascinating, as we did your opinion piece online. So, is Osama bin Laden in Hell?

REV. DAVID LEWICKI, CO-PASTOR, N. DECATUR PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH: I've not been there recently. I don't know. I won't say conclusively one way or the other. I understand why people would think that he would be.

COSTELLO: You wrote in your op-ed piece that you've been praying for Osama bin Laden for the past 10 years. Some people might say, how could you pray for such an evil man?

LEWICKI: Had it been my choice alone, maybe that's not something that I would think about doing. That is a response to what Jesus invites all those who would follow him to do. There is a piece in Matthew's Gospel where Jesus says, "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."

So, as part of my spiritual practice, every time I pray, I think about those people who I consider to be enemies and I lift them up in prayer. And so during these last 10 years, he's been one of the people that I've regularly prayed for.

COSTELLO: So when you saw pictures of Americans celebrating his death in the streets of Washington and in Pennsylvania and in New York, what went through your mind?

LEWICKI: I get it. I was living in New York on September 11th, 2001, and I experienced at least a portion of that range of emotions.

COSTELLO: Is it appropriate, though, to celebrate?

LEWICKI: I think it's natural. I mean, I think for many people it felt cathartic. It felt like the end of a period of great pain and fear and sadness. And so I think it's very natural to need to let those emotions go and to let them out somehow. So, I think I get it, yes.

COSTELLO: President Obama decided not to release the photos of bin Laden's corpse. He says that's not who we are. But if you take a look through history, there certainly have been many pictures -- grizzly pictures of dead bodies released for the public to see. I mean, I could name them. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. We released his picture. Long ago, during the '30s, we release pictures of John Dillinger, his dead body. We saw Bonnie and Clyde dead in the car. That is who we are, isn't it?

LEWICKI: I think we all respond to death differently. As I was thinking about this, I mean, I went to my own -- I remember my own grandmother's funeral and some people needed to go to the casket and see the body and that brings a kind of closure. And then for others, that's not what they need.

And I appreciate President Obama's decision. I think some people do need to see the pictures. And I think for some people, that will finally bring it home, that he's not going to cause any more harm anymore. Others can get to that conclusion and that place without seeing those photos.

So, I think it's really -- it depends on who you are and what you need to get to that place.

COSTELLO: Well, your op-ed piece is quite interesting. And thank you for joining us this morning, Reverend. We appreciate it.

LEWICKI: Thank you very much for having me.

COSTELLO: You can read Reverend Lewicki's piece, "Bin Laden Died Long Ago," on the CNN Belief Blog. And if you'd like to join the conversation and leave a comment for him, that's at CNN.com/belief.

Looking at stories making news later today.

In the next hour in Washington, a Senate Foreign Relations Committee takes up the topic of Pakistan in light of the death of Osama bin Laden.

That same hour, Vice President Biden convenes a congressional budget summit. The task, deficit reduction. Remember that?

And later this afternoon at 1:30 Eastern, the Vice President takes part in a wreath laying ceremony at the 9/11 memorial at the Pentagon.

Coming up next, we'll go in depth on the photos of Osama bin Laden's body. President Obama says they will not be released. Some people are glad to hear it. Others say it's a colossal mistake. One critic will tell us why he thinks the pictures absolutely need to be made public.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Let's go in depth on one of the controversies to come out of Osama bin Laden killing -- President Obama's decision not to release photos of his body. The president explained his reasons to "60 Minutes."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, we discussed this internally. Keep in mind that we are absolutely certain this was him. We'd done DNA sampling and testing and so there is no doubt that we killed Osama bin Laden. It is important for us to make sure that very graphic photos of somebody who was shot in the head are not floating around as an incitement to additional violence, as a propaganda tool. That's not who we are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: The President said it would be a little like spiking the football -- bragging, if you will.

Some lawmakers Democrats and Republicans say President Obama made the right decision but as you know critics say he is making a big mistake.

Right after the break we'll talk with CNN's political contributor, Bill Bennett he passionate about this -- this issue. He absolutely says those photos should be shown. After the break, he'll to you why.

We'll be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Ok let's talk about the photo, the photo of Osama bin Laden's corpse. President Obama as you know decided not to release the photo. He said it would be like spiking the football and by releasing the photos that's not exactly who Americans are. We don't need to show the world a gruesome picture of Osama bin Laden's dead body.

Bill Bennett, though, CNN contributor and also a conservative talk show host joins us now. You say there are four reasons that the President should release these photos and you're quite passionate about them. So why should we release these photos?

BILL BENNETT, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think for closure of a certain sort, Carol. I do think there are thoughtful arguments against it, I heard some this morning on my radio show. I had a Navy Seal on and he was saying, "The work that we do doesn't have to be seen by everybody." I think he thinks here, protection -- protection and sensibilities and let these men do their work and that you don't have to show it to the whole world.

There's a problem here though that's complicated by the fact that the Obama administration has had different accounts and different versions of what happened. And maybe it's the fact that I went to law school. But you know the best evidence in criminal cases and homicide cases is the body.

We don't have the body anymore. And it seemed to me that's a problem as well, that it was slid into the ocean. Now, I believe the President, I believe that it's -- that it's Osama bin Laden. But I think we want to get the final closure on this by seeing the photographs and being satisfied.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: So -- so Bill, it's like saying -- let's --

BENNETT: All sorts of theories are going to pop up --

COSTELLO: -- let's say we -- we released the photo. There will be those people who don't believe that's the real photo. I think there were fake photos on line and everybody believed -- everyone believed those were the real photos which they were not.

So how would this -- if you really believed that there were something up surrounding Osama bin Laden's death then the release of the photos may mean nothing.

BENNETT: I -- I this is not really to persuade people who do not believe and who may not believe under any circumstance. It's to close the issue. And again, in homicide cases, nothing quite -- nothing quite satisfies like an investigation of the body and that clear evidence that we can only see from looking at the body.

People are asking questions. Why was he shot? Was he trying to surrender? Was he shot in the front? Was he shot in the back? And some photos may answer those questions as well.

But I think it's also an instructional point to say, this is what happens at the end. This is what happens at the end to someone who threatens Americans and who kills Americans. And I think there is a kind of final justice to seeing this kind of picture.

I remember when I was drug czar --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Well, I think -- I think that's what President Obama was talking about, that that sort of thing, that line of thought didn't belong within the American culture, because that's not who we are. We don't brag about what we do, we don't say, see, here is what we did and learn from it. That's not who Americans are.

BENNETT: I don't suggest any gloating or any spiking or any celebrating. I suggest a somber and thoughtful presentation of the photos so people can look, can see that it's Osama bin Laden, can see that he has met his demise. And I think that's not -- that's not -- that's not a gloating thing, that's not a grizzly thing, it's a proper thing, a just thing. This is a society -- I shouldn't have to tell anybody in the media, which tends to resolve things in favor of disclosure. And when you have an issue of this importance from we've been after this guy for 10 years, I think we should see it.

Now, this is the same President you know, who wanted to show those -- those flag draped coffins, who wanted to show all those pictures out of Abu Ghraib. Well, here's a picture we need to see very much more I think than those pictures.

COSTELLO: Well, I also think there's also a concern that it might incite -- it might incite extremists to violence. And that's another reason the President said he doesn't want to release those photos. What about that?

BENNETT: I just co-authored a book with Seth Leibsohn, "The Fight of our Lives" we did a review of the incitements and what it is that incites people to violence. It is much more -- it seems, odd as it may be -- things like cartoons of Muhammad, speeches by the Pope, reports of someone burning a Koran or flushing a Koran down a toilet, this is what seems to incite people much more.

There have been lots of grizzly photos out there for the last five, six, seven years of war. They don't seem to have the kind of incitement value or significance that these other things do.

Look, I know this business is ugly. It is something a lot of people will turn their heads away from. I don't want to dwell on it, I don't want to look at it for a long time, but I do want to look at it for 10 or 15 seconds and understand that this thing has come to an end. And I think the American people can see that.

When in doubt and again I think there are merits on both sides, but when in doubt then America will decided for disclosure. Justice Brandi (ph) said it best, sunlight is the best disinfectant.

COSTELLO: Bill Bennett, thank you for joining us this morning. We appreciate it.

BENNETT: Thanks Carol.

COSTELLO: And Bill will have a new column about these photos a little later today. Make sure you go to CNN.com/opinion, you can read it there.

Let's check on stories cross country now.

700 miles of the river could flood along the Mississippi River Valley. The National Weather Service predicts it will surpass the great Mississippi flood of 1927.

Former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice toured the tornado stricken parts of Alabama. Rice is a Birmingham native and calls the severe weather outbreak a very human tragedy.

Authorities in Wisconsin are justifying the actions of officers involved in a traffic stop that turned deadly. Police in Tomah said reviewing the dash-cam video of the April 22nd incident -- actually they're doing that right now -- officers who used deadly force on the 28-year-old suspect acted correctly.

Police in Virginia Beach, Virginia, are looking for a man who used a stolen pickup truck to drive into a business to steal jewelry. Security cameras caught it all on tape. Police hope someone will recognize the suspected thief.

We're following all the new developments in the aftermath of the killing of Osama bin Laden and the President's visit -- and the President's visit's to Ground Zero later today -- that's just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: We're continuing to follow the Osama bin Laden story. President Obama, as you can see, is en route to ground zero. He's at Andrews Air Force Base now. He's actually already board Air Force One. He'll be in New York lickety-split. When he gets there, we'll bring those pictures to you live as well.

The NBA champs are in trouble, big trouble. Jeff, from HLN Sports is here. Who would have thunk it?

JEFF FISCHEL, HLN SPORT: We kind of shrugged when they lost game one to the Dallas Mavericks. Like ok, that's the first round of the series. But now, they are looking like yes, Carol, they're in big trouble after last night. They were the favorites to win the third straight title. But now, they do not look like anything like a favorite.

Look at Dirk Nowitzki for the Mavs, the crazy shot and the foul. He had 24 points. Maybe, we're asking the wrong question. Instead of "What's wrong with the Lakers" maybe, "Are the Mavs the team to beat?"

LA's Ron Artest takes out his frustration on Jose Juan Barea (ph); that's not nice. Maybe it's jealousy. Barea dates a former Miss Universe.

Artest was ejected. Dallas wins the first two games in LA. The Lakers, yes, they are in big trouble.

Before the Bulls-Hawks playoff game, Chicago guard Derrick Rose picked up some hardware, the NBA's MVP award. Then Rose picked up his team. Rose -- hesitation, the pause was for effect. He makes the lay in here, he finished with 25. The Bulls win 86-73 to even the series one apiece. Game three is in Atlanta tomorrow night.

Another overtime thriller in the NHL playoffs, San Jose and Detroit; the Sharks Devon Setoguchi gets the game winner. He had a hat trick in fact, three goals. San Jose comes from behind to win, 4-3. Now they just need one more win to advance to the Western Conference finals.

Let's check out some phenomenal glove work. Baltimore Orioles, no in- field; shortstop Robert Endino dived, the flip bare hand by Brian Roberts over to first. That's fancy.

COSTELLO: It's awesome.

FISCHEL: Nice. Orioles beat the Kansas City Royals, 3-2.

Kathy Ritvo hopes to become the first female trainer to win the Kentucky Derby -- Carol, you know, the race is on Saturday.

Her horse, Mucho Macho Man, is a 12-1 shot. Every day we come up with another horse with another great name.

Ritvo has come back though from much larger odds than that in her own life. She fought a 9-year battle with heart disease. Then in 2008 underwent heart transplant surgery. She's been inspired by PGA Tour golfer Eric Compton who's had a double heart transplant. Now Ritvo says, "I'm having a real good life."

And of course it would be very sweet if she can pick up a win on Saturday and perhaps some roses.

COSTELLO: Oh, yes. Hopefully Mucho Macho Man will help.

FISCHEL: The favorite though, I must say, dialed in 4-1 shot. But we can root for Mucho Macho Man, too.

COSTELLO: Yes, we can.

Thank you, Jeff.

FISCHEL: All right.