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DNA Tests Prove bin Laden's Death; Pentagon Releases bin Laden Videos Recovered from Raids; Was Pakistan Shielding bin Laden?
Aired May 07, 2011 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Of course, we're continuing to watch a lot of things, three big stories, same as T.J. for the last hour: Flooding on the Mississippi River, the aftermath of the deadly southeastern tornadoes and a briefing taking place at the Pentagon this hour, that briefing focuses on intelligence gathered in the raid that killed Osama bin Laden. No cameras are allowed inside that briefing, but our Barbara Starr, Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, is there and she'll tell us know exactly what happens, what transpires, what is to make of anything seized from that compound. And what intelligence may have been used to help American forces catch their man there in Pakistan.
In the meantime, let's check on those floods here in this country. Along the Mississippi River this hour, a scramble to protect lives and property, the worst flooding in decades has thousands of people on the run. The river is rising a foot a day in some places. And now rain is making matters even worse. You can see the affected states, right there. They're in the middle, Caruthersville, Missouri, the coast guard is closely watching traffic on the river. They're afraid the wake from the ships will make the flooding even worse.
After essentially closing the Mississippi river, the Coast Guard has now reopened that area but only one ship can go through at any one time. Meantime, evacuations have been ordered in half a dozen states along the Mississippi and many more are expected as the river slowly makes its way to the Gulf of Mexico. One of the hardest-hit areas so far, Memphis, Tennessee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOB NATIONS, SHELBY COUNTY OFFICE OF PREPAREDNESS: We knew that the eventuality would become a reality and that's what's happening now. We've watched this now for about 10 days and so our tributaries are beginning to back up West to East, the Mississippi is rising, as has been forecast and so it just looks like tentacles that are wrapping its arm around Shelby County.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Oh my goodness, and it only seems to worsen by the moment. Let's bring in Alexandra Steele in the Weather Center, now. People just want to hear that the water is going down, that there will be no more rain, but you're going to give us the antithesis of that.
ALEXANDRA STEELE, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Absolutely, for some, the water is going down, for some, there will be no rain, but for some there will be both. So, you know, you just said it's like tentacles and that's really the way, it's like the river is giving everyone a hug, the antithesis of that, for sure, but especially if you were to see that from space, kind of these fingers of water just overtaking. It's unbelievable.
Let's first, though, start out, kind of give you some images of what's it like in Mississippi and Tunica and places like that with this inundation of rain.
And take a look at this. Can you believe it? All nine casinos in Tunica have closed due to flooding, as you can imagine. And you know, what's unfortunate on so many fronts, but the economic hit. This, of course, is Derby weekend, one of the biggest weekends there, so that obviously a huge financial hit. Harris Casino Tower, nearly six feet of water inside.
You know, and Fredricka was just saying, those floodwaters there are only still rising, they have not yet crested like we have seen farther upstream. So, that's the scenario. It's kind of like a wall of water pushing in. It starts to the north with the Mississippi and this wall of water just has to go somewhere. It's kind of like filling up a bathtub. You hit the top, there's nowhere to go but over, right? And that's what's happened.
So, here's the record flooding. We've seen it, absolutely, flood warnings meaning flooding is happening or is imminent. We've obviously seen the pictures, we certainly know that to be true.
On May 11, this is when we're going to see it crest in Memphis. This really kind of the first big city and kind of the beginning of a stretch of places we will watch this water crest. We're going to see it go about 14 feet above flood stage on May 20, so it takes a few days, it's like throwing a ball down. Right? It takes a little while to get to these places. That's what we're seeing. Then you can see later and later. So May 20 in Vicksburg, 14-1/2 feet above flood stage. May 22 to Natchez, you can see the river landing and then to Baton Rouge on May 23 with that water getting about a foot-and-a-half above flood stage.
So, still incredibly high. We're talking some of these places at 50 feet, the flood stage. So, it's just been an enormity of circumstance. And we've seen so much rain. In the last week to two weeks to three weeks and looking back, even the last month, we've seen, in places like southern Illinois and Missouri, 300 to 400 above- average percentage of rainfall.
So, it's just really been incredible. On average, some places have gotten 20 inches and they only get three for the month. But we've got more to come. This is the next five days, so kind of delineating the numbers. I mean, nothing too heavy. We're not talking another 10 inches, maybe an inch or two. But it's still going to come to the ground, it still has to fall, exacerbate the situation. I mean, not exponentially, but it certainly will.
So, you can see the numbers, here. Maybe a 2-incher, but on the whole, just kind of a half an inch to an inch. So, what can you do? Unfortunately, we've got to have some of these still rise, Fredricka, and then begin to come down.
WHITFIELD: Oh boy. All right, I know you'll keep us posted on that. Thanks so much, Alexandra.
STEELE: Sure.
WHITFIELD: All right, so it has been since 1937 when Memphis saw this kind of flooding. The Mississippi is expected to crest in the city Wednesday, nearly 14 feet above flood stage. Here now is CNN's David Mattingly.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Four days from its projected peak and the mighty Mississippi is not done with Memphis by a long shot. A few houses already in the water, the owners apparently heeding evacuation warnings, but neighbors on a little higher ground still not so sure.
KYLE CRESON, MEMPHIS RESIDENT: It's 45 now, it's supposed to come to 48. If it goes over 48, we'll probably have to move.
MATTINGLY (on camera): How much faith do you have in those predictions?
CRESON: Goodness, I don't know.
(LAUGHTER)
MATTINGLY (voice-over): All along the banks, water pushes into areas that haven't seen flooding in generations. Anything that isn't protected by a levee is in danger of being covered by the relentless waters. But, some of the worst damage so far is nowhere near the river front.
(on camera): With the water in the Mississippi continuing to rise, the water in the tributaries, other rivers around Memphis have nowhere to go, the result is what you see here: Widespread flooding and disruption, miles away from the Mississippi.
(voice-over): And as you look at all this damage, city officials say don't get the wrong idea. The city itself, with all its tourism and nightlife is high and dry and expected to stay that way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR A. C. WHARTON, MEMPHIS TENNESSEE: I do want to make one thing clear, as you know tourism, entertainment is a big part of our economy. I want everybody to know that Downtown is still open, everything that has been planned will go on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: Nevertheless, engineers keep a watchful eye on a decades old levee system never tested like this before. Volunteers fill sandbags hoping they will not be needed and road crews shore up escape routes just in case of any last-minute evacuations.
David Mattingly, CNN, Memphis.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: And south of Tennessee in neighboring Alabama, tornado victims are living day to day overwhelmed by the devastation around them. CNN's Reynolds Wolf joins us live from the hard-hit city of Tuscaloosa.
Reynolds, it wasn't just state officials touring the disaster zone this weekend, but apparently a few entertainers have come out including the likes of Bill Cosby. Why and what's the message?
REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Absolutely. I mean, it was an amazing thing. You know, we've all really been focusing in on Tuscaloosa and obviously with very good reason, but there are many places around the state of Alabama that also have been devastated by this tornado. One of the places, Pratt City, a smaller community just to the northwest of downtown Birmingham, as we go to the video, I want to show you this video for you and the rest of America. You can see a couple of people, one of the people you mentioned, very familiar to just about everyone tuning in. We have, of course, Mayor William Bell of Birmingham, but also Bill Cosby touring Pratt City. I think both of them really taken aback by the damage, specifically in that area.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL COSBY, ACTOR: What I've seen of trucks and maintenance things coming to clear up, as long as that's happening -- and I think people have learned from Katrina, that this is reality and your mayor, to make sure so quickly, so fast, this is turning people into believers and we need them to believe that they can help each other.
MAYOR WILLIAM BELL SR, BIRMINGHAM, AL: While this storm was devastating, it has brought out the best of our city. And I'm grateful to be the mayor of a city that has such wonderful people in it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WOLF: You know, it's amazing, Fredricka, the damage we've seen in places like Pratt City, obviously here in Tuscaloosa, but many of the other smaller places, not only spots like, say, Ohatchee, Alabama, Webster's Chapel, but even into Georgia, like Ringgold, we've had some damage there. And we've got a long way to go yet in terms of our severe weather season and of course as soon as we get into June, we have the beginning of hurricane season, so certainly a possibly of rough weather for months to come along with flooding along parts of the Mississippi, it is a very, very rough time.
WHITFIELD: It surely is. all right, thanks so much, Reynolds Wolf, appreciate that. We continue to follow the tornadoes, the damage, the damage from flooding and then we're also keeping a close watch on a Pentagon briefing that's taking place right now in the Washington, D.C. area. We're talking about a briefing that involves details about intelligence surrounding the bin Laden compound raid that's going on, right now.
We'll bring you the story as soon as we get it. Our Barbara Starr is in that briefing room and will keep us up to date on that. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All right, the Pentagon right now is holding a background briefing at this hour to discuss intelligence gathered during that U.S. raid in Abbottabad, Pakistan, that killed Osama bin Laden. They may release some video. In the meantime, there is new information from Pakistan. A senior Pakistani intelligence official tells CNN that an intercepted phone call started the operation that led to that raid. The call was made by a bin Laden confidant, a courier who ended up leading U.S. forces to bin Laden's compound. Both al Qaeda and bin Laden's Taliban allies now acknowledge that bin Laden, the architect of the 9/11 terror attacks in 2001, was killed in that raid.
When then President George W. Bush got word of the 9/11 attacks, he was at a Florida elementary school reading to students. Those children are now in their teens. Our Martin Savidge talked to three of them about that day almost 10 years ago and their reactions to bin Laden's death.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The event was famously interrupted, as now high school junior Lenard Rivers remembers.
LENARD RIVERS, STUDENT: Someone came in, and then all of a sudden we just had to stop reading to him. Then he told us he had to leave.
SAVIDGE: Mariah Williams, now on the high school track team, was also there.
MARIAH WILLIAMS: It was like a bunch of confusion and people scared and stuff.
SAVIDGE: It was the moment the president was told the news of 9/11. Ever since, these students have had a unique connection to the life and death of Osama bin Laden.
For Chantal Guererro, that front seat to history had a profound effect.
(SINGING)
CHANTAL GUERRERO, SARASOTA MILITARY ACADEMY: It helped me realize and be a little bit more serious and learn how to deal with certain things more firsthand at a younger age.
SAVIDGE: Her mother noticed the change almost immediately, a daughter growing up faster than most.
ANGELINE GUERRERO, MOTHER: She's an achiever. And I really think it has to do because of the impact on those kids that they were there. I think they just see the world differently.
SAVIDGE: Today, Chantal is an honor student at Sarasota Military Academy and a regular visitor to Ground Zero. For all three students, the news of Saturday night came as another complete surprise.
WILLIAMS: I was just really shocked because I didn't expect them to catch him at all because it's already been 10 years. Who would think they would catch him after 10 years?
SAVIDGE: Rivers says both events have taught him something about life.
RIVERS: Anything can happen at any moment. And things can change real quick.
SAVIDGE: Guerrero says the end of Bin Laden does nothing to change her connection to that terrible day.
GUERRERO: It's still really meaningful because I was there that day and I did see -- I was kind of there for a part of history, so obviously I'm always going to remember it.
SAVIDGE (on camera): The students say the death of bin Laden doesn't really end the story, more like closes a chapter. Instead, they say that the story will continue to be written through the rest of their lives. Carol.
In Sarasota, I'm Martin Savidge.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: And, again, this reminder, our Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon where intelligence officials are holding a background briefing right now on that raid that ultimately killed Osama bin Laden. We're hoping to hear from Barbara shortly on the details being revealed.
And a mother accused of child abuse for allegedly telling her child to get up and fight. What do our legal guys think about that? Coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: We're going to get to our legal guys in a moment, but first, we want to remind you we are awaiting details out of a Pentagon briefing taking place, right now. Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr is there. We're hoping to hear more information about the kind of intelligence used in order to raid that compound of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan which ultimately led to his death, information that may even entail what they seized from that compound as well, including computers or any kind of video, et cetera. We'll bring it to you momentarily.
Meantime, all right, other news, one of the court cases that we're following closely today, a high-profile jury selection happening somewhere in Florida. Why the mystery? Well, it's an important development in the Casey Anthony proceedings. Let's bring in our legal guys, Avery Friedman a civil rights attorney and law professor in Cleveland, and Richard Herman, a New York criminal defense attorney and law professor joining us from Las Vegas.
All right, gentlemen, good to see both of you. So, very interesting twists and turns in this case. We're talking about three years now after the fact of the discovery of this little girl missing and then ultimately her death, and now we've got an appellate judge -- court that weighed in last night saying, it's all right that it will be a secret location where this jury selection would be taking place. This seems highly unusual, Avery, or is it not?
AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTY: No. 1, it's highly unusual. No. 2, perhaps somebody forgot about the First Amendment. The fact is that the media has already disclosed in the worst kept-secret in America that the jury is being selected in Hillsboro County in Tampa. In fact, the funny thing is the chief judge Tampa says call the chief judge in Orlando where this case is going forward. So, give some credit to Judge Belvin Perry, he's the presiding judge in the Casey Anthony case, Fredricka. But the fact is, nothing trumps the First Amendment. Understand prejudice to the defendant, but at the end of the day, First Amendment prevails in this case.
WHITFIELD: So Richard, this is strange, is it not? I mean it doesn't appear as though this is something that happens on a fairly regular basis. There may be a change of venue, but that jury selection would take place in a secret location is highly unusual.
RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTY: It's highly unusual, Fred. I have never seen or heard about this ever happening.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: ...once again.
HERMAN: I don't think this is something -- look, there's going to be a lot of challenges on appeal for this case. This probably is not going to be one of them. There will be more severe ones with the experts and the battle of the experts and what the judge allows in as admissible or not, but look, there are far more reaching and more devastating issues for this defense than whether or not the press know where this trial is going to be. This case is really setting up miles and miles against this defendant. And this is what happens, Fred, when an attorney lets his ego get involved and not his ability. This attorney, Baez, does not belong defending this woman here. He does not have the skills to do it and she is going to get annihilated, Fred. It's going to be a flash verdict, who's going to get crushed in this case.
WHITFIELD: Wow. OK, three years after the fact. It seems like this has been going on, back and forth, for a very long time.
HERMAN: Yeah, it really does.
WHITFIELD: It really, yeah, it really is a painful case, too.
All right, let's talk about this very interesting case involving -- the allegation is computer misuse. And so, Richard, who knew that -- you know, we know that spouses may share a computer, but apparently one snooping into the other's e-mail may get you a charge imposed against you. This is the case taking place in Michigan.
HERMAN: Well, it gets a charge, it gets prison time, it gets a criminal record and it's not a nice thing to have.
WHITFIELD: Up to five years in prison, right?
HERMAN: Yeah, up to five years. But who looks on their spouses or boyfriend's or girlfriend's blackberries or computers or e-mails? Who reads that stuff? Nobody's going to raise their hands, but you know who you are. Listen, this guy is facing very serious charges, here. His defense is it's a joint computer, we both use it, she gave me access to her account, she allowed me to look into her e-mails. That's his defense, probably not going to fly, here. But they're waiting -- the legislature is going to rule on this. They're not going to hold it in domestic snooping issues, so he needs time. The defendant needs time.
WHITFIELD: At the time, Avery, Leon and Clara Walker were married, now they're Splitsville. But his contention was he had a little suspicion something was going on. Come to find out when he read into those e-mails, he says she was having an affair and that kind of helped cement the goal deal of their divorce. So, I guess suspicion and maybe in a lot of courtrooms people might be able to empathize with, you've got to act on that suspicion, will that be his defense? Is that enough -- Avery.
FRIEDMAN: No. No. He hacked into the computer, at least according to the prosecution. I mean, hacked into it. It's not that he...
WHITFIELD: I had to try.
FRIEDMAN: I knew you were going to do that. I knew it. But no, no, the fact is, look, husband and wife can have the joint accounts, that's fine, like a bank account, or a computer account. This claim is that he hacked into the computer, and Richard's right, the legislature is going to try to change the law to exempt spouses from breaking into their spouse's computers, which I think is ridiculous. The bottom line is, yeah, it's a felony, it's a first of its kind and this case is going to trial soon, we're going to see what happens. I think he's in big trouble.
WHITFIELD: OK, also ridiculous, and I think everyone universally has to agree with this one, this next case involves the videotaping -- that's not the ridiculous part -- the videotaping of a fight between two teenage girls and apparently a mother is charged with actually inciting this. So, actually I got to take a pause right there, because guys we hear some information coming out of this Pentagon briefing that we've been talking about happening this hour.
We've got our CNN producer, Charlie Keyse, who's on the line with us, right now.
Charlie, what can you tell us about what was revealed during this briefing at the Pentagon?
CHARLIE KEYES, CNN PRODUCER: Well, first of all, this briefing is still going on, Fredricka. It's a pretty remarkable -- it's a senior intelligence official for the first time laying out some of the details of the information and the collection of items that was seized after the killing of Osama bin Laden, less than a week ago. And inside this Pentagon briefing room, they showed five different videos that they insist are further proof that this was Osama bin Laden and that these materials were things that could have only been found in the Osama bin Laden compound. There's one...
WHITFIELD: So videos discovered in the compound, we're not talking about intelligence video of observations of Osama bin Laden at the compound?
KEYES: That's correct. These are videos that they say belonged to Osama bin Laden. And there's one really remarkable video showing Osama bin Laden wearing a -- what looks like a wool cap with a blanket draped around his shoulders, holding a TV clicker, rocking backward and forward slightly in his chair and it looks like it's a satellite selection on the screen, a selection of satellite channels. And he clicks through them and watches various videos that are so familiar to all of us over the past 9-1/2 years of himself, Osama bin Laden watching himself on TV. And you can see his beard is gray and again, he's draped with the blanket and kind of rocking forward in his chair. And it looks like an amazing home video and insight into how he lived and what he did.
And the other four videos, one is a message to the United States that they think was made in October or November of last year. They didn't play the audio saying it would be inappropriate, but in that video, you see him made up, his beard has been dyed black, et cetera. And the other videos, the other three videos are kind of practice sessions for videos that he apparently was planning on releasing to the world.
WHITFIELD: So interesting, these videos were released during this Pentagon briefing. You got a chance to see them, everyone in the room, reporters, producers, writers, et cetera, got to watch these videotapes. Does that also mean that the Pentagon is willing to release these video samples, these five videos, to media outlets that can be broadcast?
KEYES: Correct, that's the plan. I just slipped out of the briefing. It's still going on. They're asking the senior intelligence official who's providing this background information, additional questions about the raid, about this cache of intelligence that he described as the most significant amount of intelligence collection ever from a senior terrorist. Obviously they're pumping up the value of this.
They say a special task force has been formed to triage it, to find out what's the most important so they can take quick action. And he rattled of a collection of agencies: CIA, DHS, FBI, National Terrorism Center, et cetera, that are all working together to comb through this material.
And to answer your question, yes, they are going to release those videos at the end of this briefing in the next half hour or so.
WHITFIELD: Was it explained -- the real strategy here of why to release this video? Is this to show the world that this is the closest thing we can show you to the guy that we just targeted, the man that we just killed, is indeed that of Osama bin Laden, this is his cache? Or does it have more to do with trying to intimidate or weaken the al Qaeda network as a result of the leader of that network being killed?
KEYES: I think that there are a variety of things going on. I think that they want to rattle the situation of other senior al Qaeda leaders and say, we have information, we're taking action on it. They want to say to the world, this was unquestionably Osama bin Laden. Not only do we have all these materials, but they gave new details of how they identified him using facial recognition procedures and DNA. And then he had one amazing statistic, he said the DNA is unquestionably him, the chance of a mistake is one in 11.8 quadrillion, infinitesimally small. So, this briefing, obviously, not only an effort to satisfy the enormous hunger for details about the raid and the aftermath, but also to say, yes this was Osama bin Laden and yes, this treasure-trove of intelligence is being acted on quickly
KEYES: -- in an effort to satisfy the enormous hunger for details about the raid and the aftermath but also to say, yes, this was Osama Bin Laden, and, yes, this treasure trove of intelligence is being acted on quickly.
WHITFIELD: And what -- what were they were able to reveal or willing to reveal on the DNA?
KEYES: The -- the DNA tests on Osama Bin Laden proved that it was unquestionably him.
WHITFIELD: It had also been mentioned earlier in the week from the White House and from the Department of Defense that there were other family members, direct family members of Osama Bin Laden, were DNA matches, were also involved. Did they reveal any more about that during this briefing?
KEYES: Not -- not the time that I was there. There may be more that came out in the -- in the questions. I'm going to go back in a -- in a second. And there are -- there's the opportunity for reporters to drill down on -- on that issue of DNA, identity, these videos, et cetera.
WHITFIELD: All right. All right, thanks so much. We're going to check back with you, Charlie. Appreciate that. We're going to allow you to go back into that briefing, get some more reporting going.
And we're also going to now check in with our Stan Grant who is in Kabul, Afghanistan. He's learning a little bit more about I guess the sound waves that come from this kind of information coming out of the intelligence briefing taking place simultaneous right now.
And then other reports that have trickled out over the past couple of days that perhaps people in Afghanistan are also responding to, particularly that a phone call between this courier and Osama Bin Laden may have been really that key, Stan, to intelligence being able to nail Osama Bin Laden at that compound at that time.
STAN GRANT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and the more information we get, Fredricka, the more we're learning about this operation. People are starting to piece it together.
And, from the Afghanistan side, the more it would seem to implicate Pakistan, because you have Osama Bin Laden clearly living there for some years, it seems, out walking around inside his compound. The compound itself, from the -- the information that we've been able to receive and the video that's been posted, is obviously a significant structure.
And being as it was positioned near military installations, near where many Pakistani generals or retired military officers lived, again, would lead Afghans to point the finger at Pakistan and really say, look, is Pakistan a real partner for peace?
You know, President Barack Obama has made a lot of the Af-Pak strategy that Afghanistan and Pakistan really are linked. That Pakistan needs to be able to work with Afghanistan to try to bring an end to the Taliban and to actually allow U.S. troops ultimately to be able to pull out of here.
Well, now questions are certainly being asked in Afghanistan, both by people in the street, by politicians and others, saying if Pakistan were shielding Bin Laden or were colluding with Bin Laden in any way, then what does that say about Pakistan's real commitment to bringing a resolution to the problems here in Afghanistan?
And, as they say, Afghanistan is the place where -- which -- where the war is being fought, where foreign troops are, and where thousands of people have died over the past 10 years in this battle between the U.S.-led -- U.S.-led force and the Taliban -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Stan, too, what is Hamid Karzai or anyone else at the higher level of government in Afghanistan saying about Osama Bin Laden's killing in Pakistan?
GRANT: Yes. They, again, have -- have been saying, in terms of what happened to Bin Laden, that he is someone who brought it on himself. That's what Hamid Karzai has said, essentially if you live by the sword, you die by the sword.
But, clearly, there have been strains in the past between Hamid Karzai and Pakistan. There have been concerns within Pakistan that perhaps India may be able to have a close relationship with the Karzai government. That, of course, would very much concern Pakistan.
The real -- the real test here in Afghanistan is to how effective Karzai can be in being able to march his own forces, the security forces here, the military here, to be able to take on this fight with the Taliban, because we know there is a drawdown of troops coming from the U.S. We know there are calls from within the U.S. to pull out of Afghanistan entirely.
Now, the government here is saying that would be premature. That would be giving an opportunity for the Taliban to regroup and perhaps be able to launch an even stronger attack on the government here. But, certainly, there is a lot of pressure on Karzai to be able to deliver, and this is someone who in the past has been accused of being corrupt and being incompetent, not actually being able to be the strong leader that's needed to unify the country. So a lot of pressure on him, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Yes. I guess I'm asking, too, if -- if -- whether it be Hamid Karzai directly or other members of leadership or perhaps even, you know, ordinary Afghans who are saying, was this military operation, the concentration of this war on terror in Afghanistan, all for naught?
When, come to find out, he is found, located and killed in Pakistan, if people feel like there in Afghanistan, from, you know, top all the way through other levels, whether this effort in their country was worth it in the end, knowing that the end or a pinnacle of this mission takes place in neighboring Pakistan?
GRANT: Yes. Look, I don't think anyone's been under any illusions, Fredricka, about the role that Pakistan has played in this. We know that it's a very porous border between Pakistan and Afghanistan.
We know that Pakistan militants have moved back and forth across the border. There's been speculation that Mullah Omar, the leader of the Taliban, is, in fact, himself in Pakistan. So there have been no illusions about the challenges that -- that the country faces.
There's also been a lot of concern amongst people that I've spoken to about why Afghanistan has been singled out here and the number of deaths, thousands of deaths of people here in Afghanistan over the past 10 years, when they see that the leadership -- in this case, Bin Laden, perhaps Mullah Omar himself -- are also living in Pakistan.
But there are two things here. One is Al Qaeda and the hunt for Osama Bin Laden, which is -- is now over. But there's also the ongoing battle with the Taliban.
Now, remember, the Taliban once ruled Afghanistan. The Taliban is a -- is a hierarchical structure. It has military wing. It is very well armed, very well trained. It's been continuing this path for the past 10 years.
The Taliban were here before Bin Laden. It actually shielded Bin Laden and -- and refused to give him up. In a sense, Osama Bin Laden didn't make a home here. He found a home here with the Taliban, and to the extent the Taliban is still a force, that battle continues.
And people I've spoken to on the street and also in government here are saying, look, the United States should not look at pulling out too soon. This isn't all for nothing. Ultimately, this is not just about securing Afghanistan but it's also about securing the United States and -- and limiting any possibility of a further attack there if they, in fact, did pull out soon and -- sooner and -- and gave the militants an opportunity -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: And, Stan, the U.S. troop withdrawals scheduled for July of this year. Any rumblings there on the ground about whether people are that much more nervous about that taking place, if they're anxious or feel like the withdrawal should take place that much sooner now that Osama Bin Laden has been killed?
GRANT: There's really a mixed message when you speak to people here, depending on -- on who you speak to. Some people on the street that I've had the opportunity to talk to about this have said they don't want foreign forces here at all. They think that the -- the foreign-led invasion here after 2001 has actually brought misery to this country.
This is a country that's been at war in one way or another for the past 30 years -- the war with the Soviets, the civil war that followed, then of course, since 9/11. They actually wanted -- they say they want to be able to run their country themselves. As one woman said to me, we don't go to other countries and tell them how to run their -- their governments, their countries. We want to be able to run Afghanistan for -- for itself.
But there are others who are far more realistic about this and say without the foreign force here, without that support, the Taliban would be able to regroup and would present a much more potent threat.
And still, there are others who say that ultimately the resolution here is going to be some form of negotiation, some form of power-sharing agreement with elements of the Taliban that can be brought into the fold, brought in from the cold, if you like, to be able to form some sort of a -- a unity government, a power-sharing arrangement.
But all of that is still some way off. Of course, the Taliban is now beginning its spring offensive, and there is a long way to go in this battle to try to bring this situation under control -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Stan Grant in Kabul, Afghanistan. Thanks so much.
So, once again, the Pentagon briefing still under way right now behind closed doors. Reporters, writers, producers are there. We have our own reinforcements there as well.
If you're just now joining us, what has been learned from this briefing at the Pentagon is that there was an elaboration of the kind of DNA tests that were involved to prove that this was indeed Osama Bin Laden. In addition, at this raid in Pakistan, upon the killing of Osama Bin Laden, also discovered were at least five different videos that were seized from that compound.
Those videos were played in this briefing, and we know, just as a quick synopsis, that one of them showed Osama Bin Laden kind of wearing a wool cap, doing some rather ordinary things, watching television, but watching a bank of televisions via satellite, presumably. And it also kind of showed his demeanor, the graying of his beard, that he was wearing a blanket. And another video which intelligence believes was going to be an intended message to the U.S. which Osama Bin Laden may have recorded sometime last fall.
We're going to get more information on the videos and the kind of intelligence in other realms (ph) that were seized from that Osama Bin Laden compound. We're going to take a short break. We'll be right back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Nearly a week after the killing of Osama Bin Laden, the head of the al Qaeda network, now an intelligence briefing is taking place right now at the Pentagon with reporters, writers, journalists in the room getting a chance to hear from the Pentagon from sources there about the kind of intelligence that has been gathered as a result of the killing of Osama Bin Laden. Intelligence gathered at that compound, in Pakistan, including elaborating on the DNA samples that were taken of Osama Bin Laden, proving that indeed that was the man that was killed.
Also, videos that were taken from that compound, videos that show a possible message that was going to be sent to the United States that he may have -- Osama Bin Laden may have recorded in the fall of 2010. And also video showing his surveillance of television networks and stations around the world, showing just kind of his ordinary, very casual demeanor, wearing a blanket around his shoulders, a wool cap, and that he was wearing a -- very much a very beard -- a very grayed beard. Just a little bit more about his demeanor.
We don't know, or it hasn't been revealed to us just yet, what was on the other three tapes, but we understand from our producer that was in the room, that's kind of a synopsis of two of the videotapes.
Our Stan Grant is in Kabul. We're checking back with him. We also have our producers in London -- from London, all the way to the Pentagon, that we're going to check in with as well, what this intelligence-gathering really means, the significance of all of it.
And now, you know, Stan, to you in Afghanistan, where the focus of this war on terror has been, it had been suspected that in any time of this 10 years passing since the 9/11 attacks, that Osama Bin Laden would be hiding out in Afghanistan. Come to find out, he was hiding out next door, in Pakistan.
But you've been telling me that from the high-ranking officials of Afghanistan on down, there had always been some suspicion that perhaps he was bouncing around from country to country, Pakistan to Afghanistan?
GRANT: There really has. You know, I was speaking to Abdullah Abdullah, who was a former presidential candidate at the last presidential race, and also a long-time politician here. And he said he had been saying for some time, the past couple of years, that he is actually -- Bin Laden was actually in Pakistan. He, again, is one of the officials here who is raising questions about Pakistan's commitment to actually the -- the ongoing fight against the Taliban here in Afghanistan.
So, certainly, there were suspicions. Some even believe they had more than just suspicions, they -- they believed they had real information that Bin Laden was in Pakistan, and they're feeling vindicated right now. They're able to point the finger and say, why didn't Pakistani officials know more? If they didn't know more, why not? If they did, why didn't they do something about it?
And that's just not -- that's a discussion that's not just happening at the higher levels here, but it's also now seeping through to the public here as well. They are looking at it and saying, well, if Pakistan really isn't helping this situation, how can we rely on them? And why should there be this focus from the United States on a so-called Af-Pak solution, involving Afghanistan and Pakistan together, linking the two countries so closely together?
There's also a feeling here, Fredricka, amongst people that (INAUDIBLE) at least that with Bin Laden's death it would shine a new light on this, asks these questions about Pakistan, ask the questions about the ongoing fight with the Taliban, ask questions about the commitment to international troops, how long the U.S. is going to remain here?
I suppose there's been a feeling here amongst some people that this had gone on to the back burner a little bit, that it had gone off the front pages, and these questions were not being asked. And they do have very long memories here, and they remember that, you know, after the initial invasion in 2001, attention swung again to Iraq with the invasion there, and that allowed the militants to regroup. In fact, that may have contributed to the fact that Bin Laden was able to evade capture for such a long period of time.
They also point back a long way to the battle with the Soviets and after the Soviets left that the U.S., who were supporting -- inadvertently supporting the Mujahideen here and funding the Mujahideen through Pakistan, well, the U.S. again turned away and allowed the militants to regroup and -- and regather strength.
So a lot of concern here that that situation not repeat itself. And all of this being brought to light after the death of Osama Bin Laden because it is shining a new light on this situation and -- and provoking people to ask these very important questions -- Fredricka. WHITFIELD: So, I want to understand, if there's even a sense of relief that kind of washes over Afghanistan, that ultimately he was not found and killed in Afghanistan and that perhaps people can really see that perhaps whatever their normal is there, that perhaps they might be able to resume to some normalcy there?
GRANT: You know, the ongoing battle here really is with the Taliban. If you speak to some people, they say, well, Bin Laden perhaps wasn't the potent factor that he was prior to 2001 after the U.S. invasion here and the toppling of the Taliban government and Bin Laden fled across the border -- border into Pakistan, that he wasn't the -- the presence that he had been before that.
But the Taliban remain a real presence, a really viable threat. We know that each time the U.S. and other forces go into certain areas of Afghanistan, they're able to often drive the Taliban out, but not able to hold the area. And then when they move away, the Taliban regroup and come back in once again.
And that's been the Taliban's strategy here, is to wear down the international forces, to wait them out, knowing that at some point they're going to withdraw. And that's going to give the Taliban the chance to try to lay -- lay seeds once again to this government, try to reclaim the country. That's why some are saying between now and then, it's important to try to build networks, to be able to talk to members of the Taliban, who they think they can negotiate with, and bring them into the fold into some sort of power-sharing arrangement.
So, yes, there -- there is a sense of relief that Bin Laden has been -- has been captured and has been killed, amongst some. But also no illusions about the -- the fight that remains ahead, and that is a battle with the Taliban -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Stan Grant in Kabul. Thanks so much. We'll check back with you momentarily.
So if you're just now joining us, one more time, at the Pentagon is an intelligence briefing taking place right now. Our reporters and producers are there.
And what is being revealed by our sources there at the Pentagon, a cache of videotapes that were seized from the compound of Osama Bin Laden upon his death last weekend, and also more information about the DNA and what this intelligence-gathering as a whole means for the ongoing fight against terrorism.
We'll have much more after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All right. Welcome back.
A Pentagon briefing is underway right now, and what we're learning is that during that raid of the Osama Bin Laden compound in Pakistan, just shy of a week ago now, in addition to killing Osama Bin Laden, the leader of the al Qaeda network, but also seizing DNA from him, samples, as well as a cache of videotapes. And apparently some sources are saying this is an incredible cache of intelligence information that will certainly help in the ongoing war on the terrorism.
Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, former Assistant Secretary of State for Political Military Affairs is with us now.
And so, you know, Mark, we're hearing that among the videotapes, besides showing a very casual, seemingly very cavalier Osama Bin Laden in these videotapes, watching a bank of satellite television -- so he's keeping a close watch of what is being said around the world -- that apparently also significant was a recorded message, likely intended for the United States, that may have been taped as early as last fall of 2010.
How important is this kind of intelligence-gathering and to reveal this kind of intelligence that has been gathered as a result of his death?
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, FMR. ASST. SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, any time you do an attack on a high-value target, you're not only trying to go against the target, but you're also trying to go against the intelligence at that location.
It's a virtuous cycle. If you can get intelligence from the target, that will lead you to other targets. It will give you more information on how the network operates. It will give you intelligence on other potential targets.
In this virtuous cycle of intelligence, it's why our troops spend so much time on a target, not only taking out the intended target but gathering up as much intelligence, gathering up as much information as possible (INAUDIBLE) for future operations.
WHITFIELD: OK, Mark, let me just stop you there because Barbara Starr, Pentagon correspondent, was in that briefing. She's had an opportunity to step out and get in front of a camera or a microphone and explain to us further.
Barbara, what more are we learning as a whole about the intelligence gathering?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Fred, hi there. We have just come out of the briefing. That video will be available very shortly. We'll bring it to you as soon as we turn it around.
I think what Americans will be absolutely surprised by is a very candid video of Osama Bin Laden watching himself on television. I just want to describe, because this is going to be really something for everyone to see. He will be sitting in a chair, watching essentially himself on TV, a number of video clips of himself on TV. He changes the channel. He gestures to someone off camera, who is filming this.
What is going to be most interesting in this very candid shot of Osama Bin Laden is he will have gray hair and a gray beard. He will be wearing a blanket around his shoulders, a sort of knitted cap on his head.
This is not the typical Osama Bin Laden that the world has seen because in all the other four video clips that have been distributed that we will bring to you, he has a dyed beard. He -- apparently, by all accounts, before he would appear on videos, would dye his beard black and dye his hair black before he would show himself to the world. This will be the candid Osama Bin Laden, white-gray beard, white-gray hair.
The -- the government, the Obama administration, in distributing these videos to the news media, wanted to show the world what they had -- some of what they had found. But one of the things they did on these five videos is they do not show us or let us hear any of the audio. They have stripped the audio off these videos because they feel that -- that it would have propaganda value, that they would be in the business of distributing the words of Osama Bin Laden.
The other four videos perhaps will be more recognizable, him standing in front of a -- a wall, in front of an armoire, in front of a -- a wrinkled sheet in one of the videos, making some of his message videos that we have been used to seeing. One of them is actually an out take, if you will. He misses the cue, gestures to someone off screen and starts over.
What does all of this really tell us, besides being so fascinating to look at? The official who did the briefing tells us that they have really come to the conclusion that Osama Bin Laden was in operational control, strategic control of al Qaeda, and tactical control. That means he was involved in the day-to-day operations, he was directing things, he was intensity involved in what was going on in al Qaeda, plotting, organizing, trying to get further plots going.
That -- that is something that Americans certainly had been led to believe, that he was at some distant location not involved in that day-to-day activity. The official tells us that is not what they think, that the -- the whole, if you will, of intelligence information they got, Fred, leads them to believe that he was very much involved and this whole of intelligence information -- and we only have a snippet of it -- is being characterized as the greatest intelligence hull from a single senior terrorist that they have ever had.
Let me add one other little detail, which I think is fascinating. You had perhaps 50 reporters here in the Pentagon in a background briefing with a senior intelligence official. We were not allowed to record it. We could take no pictures. We can broadcast nothing from this briefing in terms of what was said, no audio, none of it. But the Obama administration had an official in the room taking photographs of us -- Fred.
WHITFIELD: That's interesting. So now, of the five videotapes that you were describing that were revealed and shared with you and other reporters in the room, is this intelligence official saying that there is a host -- you know, there's a host more of this kind of video and that they just selectively chose these items to reveal to you all or is this a -- STARR: Right. No, let me -- let me try and -- and put some -- some shape around that. And you're absolutely right. They are not telling us -- other than it is a significant hull --the volume, if you will, of what they gathered. It is videos, DVDs, thumb drives, a lot of electronic media, some handwritten documents -- all of it. There is -- is every understanding that there is much more out there.
I think we must assume that they have very selectively picked some snippets to show the world. Why are they doing that? Well, clearly, the U.S. intelligence community wants to make the case, first and foremost, that Osama Bin Laden was there and that they killed him. And this is the material that they gathered. This is to show how involved he was in al Qaeda's operations.
But, make no mistake, they know a lot more that they are not telling us. They are going through all of this, trying to determine what intelligence leads they can come up with, what information they may have about future plots. To some extent, this is a race against time because if there are leads, specific leads, about plots, they need to get after them and they need to get after any hints about whether -- where other al Qaeda leaders may be hiding out before these people move.
There's another fascinating detail. There is some concern that there are essentially electronic booby traps in some of this material, that if they play it, there will be some sort of electronic booby trap that will essentially then erase the material. So you can be sure the U.S. government's finest electronic experts are involved in it.
I see that we have up on our screen now, Fred -- these are, you know, the -- what would you say? -- the thumbnails of the videos that we are -- we were shown.
You have to help me out here, Fred. Do we have the videos now loaded, and are we able to show them to our viewers?
WHITFIELD: Well, no, we do not.
STARR: We do not? OK.
WHITFIELD: We do not have them ready to go.
STARR: This is -- then what you're seeing -- I -- I want to explain -- is the opening screen of the material that we were shown.
One of them is essentially labeled as Osama Bin Laden's message to the American people.
The second one -- the middle one in the top, when we play that for you, that will be Osama Bin Laden watching himself on TV. As far as we can determine, that little screen you see is the satellite channel screen from his satellite TV reception. We think that it will show very clearly he starts by watching Al Jazeera.
The one to the right will be Osama Bin Laden in front of an armoire beginning to broadcast a message. They have determined the armoire was there.
Let's watch.
