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Defense Department Releases Videos Obtained Raid on Bin Laden's Compound; New Videos From Bin Laden Compound Show Al Qaeda Leader Appearing Old, Frail; Two Islamic Clerics Not Allowed on American Flight By Pilot; Storms and Tornadoes Devastate Southern States

Aired May 07, 2011 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: So the top of the hour now. I want to remind you, what this is all about. Why are you looking at these images of Osama Bin Laden.

This is part of the intelligence gathering as a result of the raid of his compound a week ago in Abbottabad, Pakistan. The Department of Defense today had a briefing, invited about 50 journalists to watch these samples of five videotapes, five of which -- a large cache of videotapes, DVDs that were seized from the compound to like at these videotapes to see this is the kind of intelligence that we're able to get from this compound. No audio, however only visuals.

JONATHAN MANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: And if you're just joining us, you want to stay and watch because they really show you the difference between the Osama Bin Laden that this man tried to present to the world and the one that we catch a glimpse of.

Here we see a message that was never released. We haven't heard the audio, but the picture speaks volumes. He looks regal, if you will. He looks like a man with message to the world. There is another videotape, an extraordinary one where he looks like a penniless pensioner sitting in a dingy room watching a cheap television with the cables exposed, a darker and really quite pathetic image of a man who really was seen as a conquering hero to many people around the world.

So not a lot of information, not a lot of concrete, actionable intelligence of a kind we saw earlier with those potential threats being discussed with the American railway system, but instead images that undermine Osama bin Laden, that make him look like an isolated figure reduced to watching a TV in a dingy room.

WHITFIELD: Barbara Starr was among those in the room watching this video and hearing from intelligence officials why they did choose these images. Barbara, why choose these to images to broadcast around the world to disseminate. What is the real objective here?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Fred, the objective of the U.S. government is to show the world they got an intelligent haul when they shot and killed this compound and shot and killed Osama bin Laden. Let us say one more time as we have said right from the beginning, these images are provided by the United States government. They are edited. They are selective. This was distributed after a senior U.S. intelligence official briefed reporters on the video, showed them inside the room. Then they fed it out to the world over the Pentagon distribution system. So this is U.S.-distributed video.

We see two Osama bin Ladens. We see this man without his beard died, hunched over, blanket, wool cap, intently watching himself of TV. As John pointed out, this is a man who guarded his public image zealously. We don't' know why he allowed this to be filmed inside his compound.

There are the other images of the more public Osama bin Laden, his beard dyed black, his hair dyed black, sitting in front of the camera, reading messages. The U.S. government did not distribute the audio because they said they felt they would be in the position of broadcasting bin Laden's own propaganda, but yet willing to show this.

Where does this leave us? What we're told is this haul of intelligence from the compound, videos, documents, DVDs, thumb drives, all of it, according to the single official is, quote, "The single largest collection of terrorist materials ever."

Another video, bin Laden in front of a wrinkled sheet. Still untidy but reading off a script. They believe as a result of the killing of Osama bin Laden, Al Qaeda is disrupted. They're struggling to name a success sore. You'll note they did not name a successor. The world assumed that it will be the Egyptian Ayman al-Zawahiri. But the intelligence official who briefed reporters said don't count on it. Zawahiri has his own enemies.

They don't discount the American-born Yemen clerk Anwar al Awlaki, who is said to be involved in so many threats against the U.S. directly, could emerge as a successor to bin land. It's a little easterly to tell. They're trying to see where he is, how this sorts itself out. What they're telling us is that they believe bin Laden was involved in the day-to-day operations and planning. They believe Al Qaeda remains very interested in attacking the United States.

MANN: Barbara, I have to ask. Americans around the world are curious to see the video of the raid that took Osama bin Laden's life. Is there any reference to that, that we'll see that as well?

STARR: I think that's probably unlikely, but who knows? Any of the video right now of the special operation forces, the Navy Seals and others overhead was made during the assault on the compound I think is going to be very much classified for some time to come. Who knows? Maybe a frame or two will come out.

Why is it got to be classified and not this? It's going to be classified because they're concerned about showing the techniques they use in these dangerous missions. There's been an awful lot out there. U.S. military says they even getting very concerned about the level of public information that was put out about how they operate. Some of it came out because one stealth helicopter crashed and was left behind for the world to see. That was never to be seen by the world. The videos are fascinating, fascinating to see bin Laden. By the way, we are told that they don't believe his beard was died at the time of his death, but this is U.S. government video being shoulder to the world. It's just a small slice of the intelligence haul that they got when they assaulted bin land and killed him.

WHITFIELD: Barbara Starr, thank you so much. Also what intelligence officials elaborated on was DNA. They were able to match that with previously garnered DNA from family members around the world. Barbara Starr also said earlier they took photographs, different techniques to verify that that indeed was him.

MANN: So once again images that you're seeing along with us for the first time released just a short time ago, Osama bin Laden as he appears in videos from his own compound. These were among the videos, intriguing because he was careful to be photographed well. He obviously enjoyed look at these videos because we see another where he's watching himself on television. There you go.

What appears to be -- forgive me for putting it this way but this is what leaks out, a lonely old man under a blanket and not the robust, vigorous leader of a world jihadist movement. This image -- if it wasn't released with the calculated effort to undermine him it inevitably will have that impact. This is not the Osama bin Laden that he wanted the world to see after his death.

WHITFIELD: Let's go to Reza Sayah. Generally, what is the view of this kind of intelligence being shared with the world?

REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL Correspondent: I don't know how quick they've been able to sort these images, but what kind of view is this from the intelligence being shareholder from the world. Like much of the world, Fredricka, Pakistan and its citizens are getting ready to see the fascinating citizens for the first time. No reaction just yet. My guess is it's going to convince some of the skeptics in the region. Skeptical about Osama bin Laden being killed earlier this week. I think the evidence that a U.S. raid into this compound. Throughout the week we talked to many people who didn't believe Osama bin Laden was dead. My guess is this will go some way in convincing those skeptics.

WHITFIELD: Thanks so much, appreciate that.

MANN: So a man who made himself known through terror acts around the planet and through videotapes is now seen once again after his death in still yet more video but a different vision of Osama bin Laden, a match watching himself on television isolated, trapped in his compound. We'll have more right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Welcome back. It's considered a slice of the greatest intelligence haul from any single operation. MANN: It is -- five videos that you're watching relied by the Department of Defense. Barbara Starr was among the correspondents briefed on these videos. There's no audio but there are glimpses of Osama bin Laden when he wanted to be seen and perhaps when he didn't want to be seen.

WHITFIELD: One still questions why would he have someone videotaping him looking very frail watching the television, watching satellite images of how he was being conveyed around the world. This is part of that intelligence haul. The Department of Defense is now releasing just a portion of all that they have gathered at the compound of Osama bin Laden just barely a week ago.

When they killed him, they retrieved videotapes, DVDs, as well as thumb drives. Today there was a Pentagon debriefing. Our Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr was among them. They decided to reveal these videos, no audio, images only.

MANN: If you're just joining us or if you're seeing them, I've seen them a number of times, they're watched in fascination. These were taken inside the compound in Abbottabad. That's Osama bin Laden with what appears to be a knit cap basically channel-surfing, mostly seen looking at pictures from himself.

The CIA and analysts are poring over them right now. We have Peter Bergen, our own national security analyst, joining us. Peter, what do you make of the images?

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: It's surprising that there would be pictures of this frail old man watching pictures of himself. But bin Laden has protected his public image starting with his CNN interview that he gave to CNN back in 1997, which was carefully orchestrated propaganda record in that he was reluctant to be filmed. They wanted to control the interview in that sense and of course not much you can do about that when you're surrounded by a group of heavily armed men.

I've interviewed reports from Al Jazeera that when they went to interview him, his son was married to one of the leaders of Al Qaeda, one of the leaders of Al Qaeda's daughters was married to one of the sons. I was there and filmed it and Osama bin Laden claimed a poem, you ought to see the images of him and then asked if the whole thing could be reshot.

So this is a guy who carefully tended his public image. He was said to have said 90 percent of my battle was conducted in the media. It's fascinating to see him kind of see him looking at himself, also across his preparations for some propaganda videos in 2004 and 2007. I think these are images we're seeing right now on the screen are essentially outtakes of the two most recent times that we saw him, since 9/11 on video.

WHITFIELD: And one we understand from our Barbara Starr just may have been taken as early as last fall because there was a message that intelligence officials believe was targeting the U.S. but, of course, the U.S. intelligence officials won't relief what that is. On your point, peter, when you talk about it, this is a man obsessed with his image. Isn't it striking, isn't it perplexing why he would have an image like this, why would somebody be videotaped him as frail as he looked channel serving as John put it.

BERGEN: Yes, that is strange. But going back the video we did in 1987 -- yes, it was Nic Robertson and others. We now have images of the CNN crew shooting bin Laden. So the point is the image we're seeing now, bin Laden watching, you know, himself on television was probably, you know, meant for internal consumption, not meant obviously for what's happening right now which is global distribution.

And he's always had a mediocre team. This is not a flattered image as you say. There have been people who see him as a real figure. We were expecting an Osama bin Laden propaganda videotape. Of course, he would have prepared one because he knows he's going to be. Frankly it does not put him in a particularly flattering light.

WHITFIELD: Peter Bergen, thank you so much.

MANN: Strange behind the scenes glimpse of Osama bin Laden dead seven days ago after that U.S. raid, but now living on in the documents, in the DVDs and the intelligence that he left behind.

WHITFIELD: We're going to Afghanistan as well. We're going to tack a short break right now and get reaction from Kabul after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MANN: Welcome back. Forgive me. I'm Jonathan Mann and this is Fredricka Whitfield. We've been watching some extraordinarily strange videos.

WHITFIELD: Some are what Osama bin Laden would want the world to see and one other we know he wouldn't want the world to see but the department of defense has released this information, these slices of video, because this is what was seized from his compound at the time of Osama bin Laden being targeted and killed in Abbottabad, Pakistan.

This is the image you would know Osama bin Laden would not want the world to see. He's kind of crumpled up there. He's watching satellite television. But intelligence officials say he's watching images of himself, how he's being conveyed around the world. That juxtaposition is up against the other images where he's very poised, very polished, he's dressed more formally, and he looked very pulled together. This is a real contradiction here, these images, that intelligence officials want the world to see.

MANN: Absolutely startling. We keep moving between them because the contrast is so enormous.

This tape was found by the Navy Seal team and on the right you're looking at what he intended to do. He intended to see himself on television, self-proclaimed leader of an army of the faithful looking instead like an isolated failing figure, hunched under a blanket. It's a remarkable image of Osama bin Laden. Even more remarkable of one of his supporters who intentionally captured that image and made it possible for us to see it.

WHITFIELD: At the Pentagon earlier today, maybe two hours ago, 50 reporters were called into this intelligence briefing. No cameras or videotaping at that time. They were able to see these images by way of intelligence officials explaining what they seized at that compound. And now about two and a half hours later the world is kind of digesting these images that are being broadcast, images that the Department of Defense released throughout the world.

We want to find out what kind of reaction there might be in Kabul, Afghanistan. Our Stan Grant is there. And, Stan, for a long time, people assume head might be hunkered down. The killing took place in neighboring Pakistan. What is the reaction there in Kabul as a result of this image and as a result of the raid and the killing?

STAN GRANT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Let's talk about where he was found in Pakistan. You're right. Many people had assumed for some time. He was found inside Afghanistan itself. This is where he may have been for many, more years before he came here. So he's been there a very long time and formed that alliance with the Taliban. There was a feeling of speculation that he may have been there.

But there were others inside this country who said for some time, no, he was, in fact, in Pakistan. Dr. Abdullah Abdullah was one. I spoke to him just the other day. He reminded me that he had pointed this out for some years now. He was asking questions why did the Pakistanis not know? If they did know, what did it say about how seriously they're taking this war against the Taliban, the effort to root out Al Qaeda and the military?

That's the view being shared on the streets here. They say, look, we have borne the brunt of war, thousands of Afghans have died. Homes have been destroyed. Lives have been turned upside down. You see the walking wounded around the streets of Kabul every single day. The full impact of bin Laden's terror campaign, Taliban's campaign, and, of course, the invasion of foreign forces over the past ten years and they're saying why should we bear that while Pakistan is clearly in their view not cooperating and not committed to really cracking down on the Taliban and really ruling out the militancy.

The images themselves, what we're seeing here is a frail looking elderly look man hunched down with blanket over him in a nondescript room watching himself on television. As Peter Bergen pointed out, he did not want this image out there. For people in Afghanistan, people of the Muslim world, he very carefully manufactured his image. In fact people I've spoken to here believe that he was almost invincible. It really projected the strong image of one who was invincible. Instead we see a man who fled Afghanistan, a man who was hiding, and a man who clearly felt the effects of that and, as I say, a frail old looking man watching himself on television.

MANN: Stan grant, live from Kabul, Afghanistan.

WHITFIELD: Much more on or our continuing coverage of the intelligence being revealed from the Department of Defense when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Welcome back. I'm Fredricka Whitfield along with my colleague here John Mann. We're talking about videotapes, DVDs, thumb drive, all of that that were seized from Osama bin Laden's compound just shy of a week ago when he was target and killed by U.S. forces. And today the Pentagon intelligence officials revealed just a slice of that cache.

MANN: In fact, the strangest home movies you're going to see today, including images of the Al Qaeda leader recording unreleased messages to the world. They were promising and threatening more terror. Then there was a private video of him watching himself on television while he sits huddled up, crunched up under a blanket. Another shows him in a robe. The Pentagon says they're the biggest largest haul ever from a single source.

WHITFIELD: Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr was there for the debriefing. She's with us now. What more can you tell us about the strategy of releasing this kind of information?

STARR: Well, let me reset this for everybody right now. I'm sorry. You're hearing Saturday afternoon in the Pentagon. You're hearing the testing of the fire alarm, I think. I'll keep talking.

Let me reset for everybody. This briefing took place on a Saturday afternoon in the Pentagon with the press corps for logistical reasons. This briefing was conducted by a senior U.S. intelligence official. This reflects the thinking of the United States intelligence community as you see this video of bin Laden.

What do we know now? The U.S. government released these videos. It's a snippet of the massive intelligence haul when they got Osama bin Laden. There's no audio. That's important to know. The U.S. said it did not want to be in the position of distributing any Osama bin Laden propaganda message. And we're only seeing what the U.S. government has publicly put out. This is very much a slice of what is there of the vast intelligence haul.

What have they told us about the state of Al Qaeda and bin Laden's role in it? They're now saying bin land was very much in control. That he exercised not just the big picture, strategic control, offering answer to his loyal followers but tactile control. He was down in the weeds. Tactile defects that Al Qaeda was still very interested in attacking the United States, that bin Laden was all about that.

So is that a change that he was hiding in a cave somewhere essentially on the Pakistani border, far removed from the day-to-day operations off Al Qaeda? I asked the official that, and the official very interestingly said, no, we believe he was in an operational setting in this compound. That's a change from what we've been led to believe.

So perhaps the U.S. intelligence committee, we can assume a lot more over the years than they were publicly divulging. How could bin Laden have had so much control? He used a very small tight circle of loyal couriers. He used couriers, thumb drives. He had no telephone or Internet at this site. They were doing nothing to radiate any signals outward. They exercised a lot of security. In the end it wasn't enough as the Seals were able to get there and kill bin Laden.

MANN: Barbara, I have to ask. Did he or she reveal there was any more actionable detail? We heard about the plot that was being mulled over to attack American rails. Ultimately the sense I have is that was serious at the time, not so serious now. But was there serious intelligence information they reported to you?

STARR: What this intelligence official told reporters is if they get any of that so-called actionable intelligence, something with a date, or place, they will move against it.

The administration has established an intelligence task force. El elements now pour in through this intelligence hall look for any clues, looking for other clues about where Al Qaeda leaders are. They're looking for Ayman al Zawahri, in many videos said to be his number two for so long. Indications that are telling us that Zawahiri may not be that popular in the organization. What if an affiliate begins to take over? You have the cleric American-born cleric al- Awlaki. They're looking for him and they're moving as fast as they can with the intelligence they have.

MANN: Barbara, thank you.

WHITFIELD: We're going to extrapolate a little further with retired Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt who is joining us by phone from Washington. You know, I wonder, Mark, in your view, why do you suppose the Pentagon, the Department of Defense, is releasing this kind of imagery of Osama bin Laden?

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT (RET), CNN CONTRIBUTOR, (via telephone): I think it's pretty clear what they're trying to do is demystify this icon who has terrorized the word for the past ten years, to show for fact he was not ten feet tall. He wasn't capable of doing anything he wanted. In fact, as shown in these home movies, in many ways he seems to be a tired old man sitting in a chair.

The problem is at the same time they're trying to demystify Osama bin Laden, they're also saying he's in far more operational control than we had every thought. So there's a contradiction in this message that I think the administration needs to be careful. If an old man with blanket over his shoulder can continue to conduct a terror investigation over the world, we've got a lot to be careful about it.

MANN: General, is this one part of a larger psychological operation against Al Qaeda? Are they thinking about manipulating these images to try to reach his followers even more in the days and weeks to come?

KIMMITT: No, I don't think there's any psychological operation here. This is simply putting the facts out on they found, selective information that can be revealed that doesn't have direct intelligence value.

But it's important for the world to understand another dimension of what we've seen for the past ten years on bin Laden and the Al Qaeda organization. The world wants to know what was behind the curtain. They're beginning to see a glimpse of select non- declassified and give the public a better understanding of who we've been fighting for the past ten years.

WHITFIELD: Since the release of these images, has it caused a crippling of the Al Qaeda network?

KIMMITT: I don't think it will cripple the network at all. The true believers will continue to fight. The real battlefield is for the hearts and minds so to speak of the general public. Those people that ten years ago, as recently as five years ago may have seen bin Laden and Al Qaeda in a positive light. This is going to keep the effort once they understand this is not going to go out of their way to make things better but only makes thing far, far worse.

This going to continue to feed the public knowledge of Al Qaeda and help to truly understand that the myth of Al Qaeda was not the truth and now they're getting a chance to see what the real truth is.

MANN: How much does it diminish his image among his followers that he dyed his beard and hair? I'm just curious, especially within his culture, they might appear more feminine and more ridiculous in death?

KIMMITT: Well, any icon that's got to live up to the image has got to demonstrate that he's capable, aggressive. I think most people take a look and see he may have been the most feared terrorist in the world but he was human, he has vanities, and we're seeing the vanities come to life.

WHITFIELD: Do you have any personal views as to whether these images should have been revealed?

KIMMITT: I think it's important for the world to understand who this man was and what this organization is. Obviously those images and that information that has direct intelligence value, not now but perhaps later, can be declassified.

I stand behind the president of not putting out the image of bin Laden after death. He said we don't spike the football, which is exactly the right answer. But the public has a right to this point to this kind of information, and I think the administration is doing the right thing as long as they can make sure it comes out in a matter that doesn't contradict itself, as some of these images versus the information that he was in operational control might be true.

MANN: Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, thank you for talking with us.

KIMMITT: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Quite frankly the images of Osama bin Laden as we he was living but now images you're seeing in his death.

MANN: Osama bin Laden TV, we'll have more right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Back to our big story that we continue to follow, a new look inside the world of Osama bin Laden through his personal collection of videos. They were discovered in the compound after Sunday's raid that killed him. The Pentagon released these images today.

MANN: They include images of the Al Qaeda leader recording messages for world presumably to spread more terror and maybe most interesting, a private video of him watching himself on television sitting wrapped in the blanket. Another is of him wrapped in the robe. It's the biggest ever from a terrorist.

Southeast Airlines apologizing to two Muslim imams who were taken off a flight last not in Memphis, Tennessee. They were simply on their way to a conference on prejudice against Muslims. It was in Charlotte, North Carolina. The pilot told them other passengers were uncomfortable with them being on the plane dressed in traditional Muslim attire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IBRAHIM HOOPER, COUNCIL OF AMERICAN-ISLAMIC RELATIONS: I think they were, you know, obviously upset to the extent they were inconvenienced but they understand what's going on in the world and particularly in the heightened sensitivities of the dealt of Osama bin Laden.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MANN: Nearly five years ago several imams headed to the same conference were also taken of a U.S. airways flight.

A plane crashed into the ocean while prepared to land in Indonesia, and 21 passengers and six crew members were aboard that plane. No word yet on what caused the crash.

WHITFIELD: The flooding across the Midwest and south is causing a major traffic headache for truckers as well as other drive drivers. A 23-mile stretch of I-40 in Arkansas is closed because it's underwater.

And there's a new concern, the potential for thieves as well as looters. The sheriff's department in McCracken County, Kentucky, is patrolling flooded neighborhoods.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're keeping the water safe and making sure everybody else is safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP) (WEATHER BREAK)

WHITFIELD: The Kentucky Derby, of course it's time for that. And fans from around the world and saddled at the Churchill Downs in Louisville, anxiously awaiting the gates to open there. The prestigious horse race is the first leg of the Triple Crown. But the hoopla is not just over the horses, it's also over those incredibly elegant hats, part of a tradition that date back decades. Beautiful.

All right, of course, we're also continuing to cover and share with you any information we can get on the release of the new Osama bin Laden videos.

MANN: Strange television -- Osama bin Laden as you've never seen him before. We'll be back in the CNN newsroom right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: This big story we continue to follow today, a look inside the secretive world of Osama bin Laden like we've never seen before. The Pentagon releasing videos seized from Osama bin Laden's compounded in Pakistan. They say the cache of information found in the compound is one of the most significant amounts of intelligence collected during a single operation.

MANN: Let's talk about the videos that we're sharing with you. They include the images of the terrorist leader recording messages for the world. There is no audio. We've seen those kinds of tapes before. One of those tapes appears to be a home video of a very different kind. It shows him watching himself on television. It's an informal setting. It's kind of dingy. He's hunched over with a blanket draped over his shoulders.

WHITFIELD: There has been a lot of criticism leveled at Pakistan in the wake of bin Laden's death, wondering how mump they know about his whereabouts and how is it he could have been living right under their noses. Even people in Pakistan are questioning how their neighbors, Pakistan's intelligence could overlook it. Earlier I spoke with CNN's Stan Grant in Kabul, Afghanistan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRANT: From the Afghanistan side the more it would seem to implicate Pakistan, because you have Osama bin Laden clearly living there for some years, it seems, out walking around inside the compound, the compound itself. The information that we've been able to receive and the video posted is obviously a significant structure, and being as it was near military installations, again, it would lead Afghans to point the finger at afghan and say, look, is Pakistan a real partner for peace?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MANN: Stan grant in Pakistan earlier. Osama bin Laden is dead but, he's left behind clues for the world puzzle at. We'll have more here in the CNN newsroom. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: More on the breaking news. We continue to follow a new look inside the world of Osama bin Laden through his personal collection of videos.

MANN: They were discovered in the compound after the raid which killed bin Laden. The Pentagon released them today.

WHITFIELD: We're going to go live to Washington to our Pentagon correspondent, and we're also going to Pakistan at the top of the hour right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)