Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Osama bin Laden Unplugged; Flooding Continues in Southern States; U.S. Releases New bin Laden Videos; Fuel Depots Burning in Libya; U.S. Troops in Afghanistan
Aired May 07, 2011 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM where the news unfolds live this Saturday, May 7th. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.
JONATHAN MANN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jonathan Mann. You're watching worldwide coverage from CNN. And our story, of course, new details emerging about the raid that killed Osama bin Laden, including five new videos from his own personal stash.
WHITFIELD: The U.S. Government, the Department of Defense specifically, released them a short time ago. In one of those videotapes, bin Laden is in a knit cap, rocking back and forth, watching a video of himself, with a remote control in his right hand. And then another video shows him with a freshly dyed black beard. These tapes were confiscated from the compound where bin Laden was killed a week ago.
Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, was at the off-camera briefing with intelligence officials about two hours or so ago. She joins us now live. Now, Barbara, this is a tiny fraction, is it not, of the intelligence that was gathered overall at this compound, everything from DVDs, videos, thumb drives? And this is just a tiny slice of it, right?
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Fred and Jon. This was distributed to the news media today by the Obama administration, a very unusual Saturday press briefing, very small fraction, we're told, of the intelligence haul they got. They're describing it as the largest cache of intelligence they've gotten from a senior terrorist figure ever. They are going through it, though all of that, handwritten documents, videos, DVDs, thumb drives, all of it, to get any clues that they can.
The videos that they have distributed are very much a product of what the U.S. government has decided to show the world. Let's be very clear about that. There is no audio on them. That's been stripped off. They say they don't want to be in the business of distributing Osama bin Laden's message.
Four of the videos, as you say, show bin Laden with his beard and his facial hair dyed black. He's in more formal clothing, very much reading remarks. One of the first videos is labeled "A message to America," where he attacks America and capitalism, again, his basic message. But it is this video, I think, that is capturing the world's attention of bin Laden with no dye on his beard, a man hunched over a TV, his beard white, his facial hair white, a blanket around his shoulders, a cap on, peering at the television, looking at images of himself.
We are told this all goes to the assessment they have that bin Laden was obsessed with his own image, very involved in how he looked, how he presented himself to the world. He's scouring newscasts on a satellite television channel to look at the pictures of himself.
Where does this leave us now? What do we know about al Qaeda? What do we know about bin Laden? What this senior intelligence official says is the assessment is that bin Laden was in fairly direct control of al Qaeda, strategic control, offering the big picture guidance, tactical and operational control, getting down into the weeds, the details, the planning, the plots, that he had the ability to do this and this is what he'd been doing for the last several years.
He was doing this through a trusted group of couriers, use of thumb drives, use of a lot of operational security at his compound so he could not be tracked. In the end, it was a courier that inadvertently gave him up.
What are they saying about al Qaeda? They say that all evidence they have, that the U.S. government has, is that al Qaeda is still interested in attacking the United States. They are combing through the intelligence for any clues about current plots and plans. And of course, they are looking very carefully to see who emerges as the next leader of al Qaeda -- Fred, Jon.
MANN: Barbara, I want to ask you a question. I'm really going to convey the thoughts we heard earlier from Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, who made a point about the video that we all saw that struck us of Osama bin Laden alone in that dingy little room watching television, which is it seems to work against what you're being told about how powerful and influential he was over a still operational terror network. You would think that if this man was the evil genius behind an army of jihadists, he could get himself -- forgive me for being flip about this -- but a better television set, a La-Z-Boy and some wallpaper. He looks like someone who's dirt poor and down on his luck.
STARR: Well, you're taking me into areas where, as a reporter, you know, I don't have proven facts about this. Nobody's really addressed it. But I think there are a couple of things you can derive from this picture -- if you can keep it up on the screen for a minute -- which is this was very much a compound where he was trying to stay hidden away from the world, so they weren't bringing in a lot of amenities. I don't think anybody wanted to see -- you know, to carry on your analogy, wanted to see the delivery truck pull up with a La-Z-Boy and the wallpaper.
The fact that he had satellite TV was probably his only real direct communication. They had no Internet. They didn't have phone service. They were very careful about radiating or emanating electronic signals that could be pulled up. Bin Laden was, by all accounts, obsessed with his image, very much in control. And so I think it makes sense that he is peering at the television.
But there's something else here, which is if he's watching television, he is keeping up on current events in the world. I think if you go back to some of his messages that were broadcast, one of the fascinating things is a few times, he made references to current events. If my memory serves me correctly, he made a reference once to the financial and economic crisis in the United States as it was emerging in the U.S., if my memory serves.
This goes to the point that people had often wondered about. Was he shut away in some cave in Pakistan with absolutely no communication, or was he able to keep up somehow? And perhaps this satellite television access shows us he was able to keep up, in at least some fashion.
WHITFIELD: And so Barbara, I wonder, you know, you underscored no phones, no Internet at his compound, yet among the items that were seized from his compound were thumb drives. So did intelligence say anything about whether he may have used communication by way of, you know, computers, off-line, would put information on thumb drives, and then this courier might even help, I guess, disseminate his plans or his thoughts about...
STARR: Right.
WHITFIELD: ... this network by way of thumb drives?
STARR: I think...
WHITFIELD: That way? I mean, this is very strange, is it not, to discover, learn that he was in this isolation, but somehow he was able to convey messages?
STARR: Isolation, but very careful isolation. I think the working assumption is that, indeed, he used these thumb drives to communicate, not logging onto the Internet, not providing that potential way to be tracked down, but using thumb drives, using couriers to carry his messages, and using a network of couriers.
You know, years ago, in some of those original bin Laden videos, we saw him surrounded by fighters and much larger groups of men. I think it's pretty clear that at some point, when he moved to this compound, the effort was to reduce his profile, reduce the number of people around him, go to a very small group of couriers, who would then -- and essentially, a Kuwaiti man and his brother at the end, who would move out of the compound at some point, carry messages to other people, carry communications out of the compound.
Look, I mean, they found everything from handwritten messages they believe to be written by bin Laden and all the way to these high-tech thumb drives. But they tell us no Internet access. That might have been something that might have given away his location, perhaps.
WHITFIELD: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thanks so much.
MANN: So what's the reaction been to these tapes in the Muslim world? CNN's Reza Sayah joins us now from Islamabad -- Reza.
REZA SAYAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jonathan, it's midnight here in Pakistan, and I think most Pakistanis, like much of the world, are just digesting, taking in these pictures for the first time. But I think in the coming hours, in the coming days, when you get their reaction, I think these fascinating pictures are going to convince some skeptics that, indeed, Osama bin Laden, the late leader of al Qaeda has been killed.
Remember, there's a lot of people in this region, not just here in Pakistan but Afghanistan, that simply didn't believe that U.S. forces swooped in earlier this week on this compound north of Islamabad and killed Osama bin Laden. They asked for some proof. They wanted to see some hard evidence that, indeed, he was dead. Of course, the Obama an administration struggled with releasing what some called a gruesome image of Osama bin Laden, his remains, ultimately, they decided not to.
I think these fresh images are going to convince some skeptics that, indeed, Osama bin Laden is dead. And I think this is another reaction that you're going to hear from many Pakistanis. It's a reaction that we've heard over and over again when we ask them what they thought about the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound earlier this week. They will tell you that they no longer want to be linked with Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda, and they're tired of being blamed with extremism.
It is a fact that the overwhelming majority of the 170 or so million people that live in Pakistan are peace-loving people who've been victims of extremism themselves. And frankly, so many people you talk to in this region are tired of being linked with al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden. They're happy that he's dead, but they'll be much, much happier when the world stops linking them with extremism and al Qaeda.
WHITFIELD: So I wonder, Reza, you know, as we were learning Barbara Starr a little bit more about what may or may not have been taking place inside that compound of Osama bin Laden -- no Internet, no phone service -- I wonder if a lack of services might have in any way been a red flag for that home in an area where perhaps the habit or the -- the habit may have been that most people had, you know, satellites or most people did have telephone wires to their home or -- I mean, are you learning anything there in Abbottabad now that we're learning a little bit about the behavior in that compound, if anyone should have noticed anything odd about it?
SAYAH: Well, apparently, there were no red flags for people in that town. And apparently, there weren't anything odd to people and it was ultimately the U.S. intelligence that found out that, indeed, Osama bin Laden lived in that house.
But these are questions that still remain unanswered. These are questions the Pakistani intelligence, the Pakistani civilian government and certainly the military is going to have to answer over the coming days. This has certainly been an embarrassing episode for this very proud army, an army that is rarely questioned domestically here by the Pakistani public. But over the past week after this raid, they've certainly faced some aggressive questions by the local media here, by the public, why -- why was Osama bin Laden able to live in this very unusual compound without being detected by Pakistani intelligence?
Over the first several days this week, they remind (SIC) relatively quiet, but over the past couple of days, they've done some damage control, aggressively coming out and trying to convince the public that they didn't know. But some people are still not convinced.
MANN: Reza Sayah live in Islamabad, thanks very much.
WHITFIELD: So with Osama bin Laden gone, who is leading al Qaeda?
MANN: We look at the number two figure and why he may now become number one.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: So it's a look at Osama bin Laden the world has not seen before today, the U.S. government releasing five separate videos of the al Qaeda leader just a couple of hours ago. The videos were taken from the compound where bin Laden was killed.
MANN: The tapes are silent, but they speak volumes. Some show bin Laden rehearsing and delivering those anti-American messages that we have been seeing over the years. One video shows the terrorist leader with a gray beard, which is to say when he hasn't dyed it, watching recordings of himself on television. Pentagon officials say the videos indicate that Osama bin Laden was still very much in control of al Qaeda's day-to-day operations.
WHITFIELD: So now that Osama bin Laden is dead, there's a lot of speculation about who will be the next al Qaeda boss. Ayman al Zawahiri, bin Laden's former deputy -- well, he tops the list of most terrorism experts.
MANN: CNN's Michael Holmes has a look now at what makes al Zawahiri a top candidate.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AYMAN AL ZAWAHIRI: (INAUDIBLE) to the whole world! Who are we? Who are we?
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): By the time Ayman al Zawahiri burst onto the world scene after the assassination of Egyptian president Anwar Sadat, he was already a terrorist committed to turning Egypt into a fundamentalist Islamic state. The young doctor came from one of Egypt's leading families. There is even an al Zawahiri Street in Cairo named after his grandfather. His uncle described him as pious.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was known that he is a good Muslim who is keen to pray at the mosque and so and to read and to think and to have his own decisions.
HOLMES: Al Zawahiri spent three years in prison after Sadat's assassination. After he got out, he made his way to Pakistan, where he used his medical skills to treat those fighting the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. That's where he met Osama bin Laden in 1986, and they found a common cause. He talked about it a decade later.
AL ZAWAHIRI: We are working with brother bin Laden (INAUDIBLE) and we are working (INAUDIBLE) in Sudan and many other cases (ph).
HOLMES: Al Zawahiri was many places in the early 1990s, even, it's believed, visiting California on a false passport. His group attacked Egyptian embassies and tried to kill Egyptian politicians. Eventually, al Zawahiri he folded his group into al Qaeda.
PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Bin Laden and Ayman al Zawahiri were a sort of team, as it were. Ayman al Zawahiri is the chief ideologue of al Qaeda. He's the number two guy.
HOLMES: Al Zawahiri was at bin Laden's side when he declared war on America in May 1998. Weeks later, they launched an attack on the U.S. embassies in Africa and then later gloated after they escaped a U.S. Cruise missile attack launched in retaliation.
After the 9/11 attacks, al Zawahiri began to become the voice of al Qaeda, taunting the U.S.
AL ZAWAHIRI (through translator): American people, you must ask yourselves why all this hate against America.
HOLMES: After the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, bin Laden and al Zawahiri were on the run, sometimes together, more often apart. His wife and daughters were killed in U.S. air strike aimed at him. But he continued to issue messages on subjects ranging from the war in Iraq to the London subway attacks in 2005.
Recently, al Zawahiri issued a tape calling on Muslims to attack NATO members for helping the rebellion against Colonel Gadhafi, a sign that he and al Qaeda badly misjudged the Arab spring. And while he was always the obvious choice to succeed, Osama bin Laden, al Zawahiri may not be the ideal candidate.
JOHN BRENNAN, DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: His number two, Zawahiri, is not charismatic. He has not been -- was not involved in the fight earlier on in Afghanistan, so -- and I think he has a lot of detractors within the organization, and I think you're going to see them start eating themselves from within more and more.
HOLMES: Without bin Laden, al Qaeda can never be the same.
FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST, CNN'S "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": It was an idea personified by Osama bin Laden. He was this charismatic figure. To join al Qaeda, you pledged a personal oath to him. People went and died not for Ayman al Zawahiri or Khalid Shaikh Mohammed but for Osama bin Laden. HOLMES: Terror experts say that to jihadists worldwide, al Qaeda still has great appeal as an inspiration. Zawahiri's challenge, beyond staying alive, is to remake an organization made up of scattered factions, hampered by a lack of funds and ravaged by death.
Michael Holmes, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MANN: Record floods are swallowing parts of the U.S. Southeast right now, forcing evacuations and interstate shutdowns, and people are bracing for more. That's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: A look at our top stories right now. The water is rising by the minute, and so, too, is concern for residents live along the Mississippi River. Thousands across six states have evacuated their homes. Residents in Memphis, Tennessee, are bracing for the worst. The river is expected to crest there around 48 feet on Wednesday. It will be the worst flooding that city has seen since 1937. And if that wasn't bad enough, there's a chance of more rain this afternoon.
I want to turn now to CNN meteorologist Jacqui Jeras. So Jacqui, why is the flooding so bad right now?
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Oh, why is it so bad? So many reasons, Fredricka. You know, it all started with a really heavy snow pack over the winter, and then the month of April, we had, some of these areas, as much as 400 to 500 percent of our average rainfall.
WHITFIELD: Oh, my goodness!
JERAS: So you put so much rain, everything...
WHITFIELD: Too much at once.
JERAS: It is. And it just goes through the watershed system and ends up into the Mississippi River, trying to drain its way down into the Gulf of Mexico.
Now, where are we at right now? OK, the river has crested. This is the area that we're really focusing in on now, where the peak of this water is. But keep in mind, even though many of you have crested, like in Cairo and into New Madrid now, it's going to stay at record levels and in flood for the next week to 10 days. So this is going to be ongoing for a while. And then we'll watch this rush of water make its way all the way down into Louisiana in the upcoming weeks.
Now, the rainfall, here you can see we've had a little bit more today. It hasn't been all that much. That's the good news. Additional rainfall is going to be pretty minimal in the upcoming days. But that really, you know, is taken into account into these flood forecasts that we're talking about as the water moves downstream.
Now, Memphis, Tennessee, is next in line. Major to near record flooding is going to be expected here. Vicksford, Mississippi -- this is another city that we're going to continue watch. May 20th -- so that's next week that we're looking at that record flood, more than 14-and-a-half feet above that previous record state back in 1937, like you mentioned. A few of these records could be beaten and go all the way back to 1915.
We'll take you downstream a little bit further and show you who's next in line. This is Natchez, on May 22nd, expected to crest there, 16 feet above the flood stage. And then we'll take you down as we head down towards Louisiana, and we'll watch for those crests to move down the 23rd, all the way down into Baton Rouge.
Now, we've talked about some of these spillways that have been opened up to relieve some of that pressure. That happened last week. There are two more downstream that could be opened up as early as Monday. These are not explosive-type ones that we saw the last time around, but they're going to be gates that are going to be opening.
This is a flood event, not a flash flood event. And the difference is this is a rise of a rush or stream out of its natural banks. A flash flood is a very quick event, and sometimes those things only last over a six-hour period. And that's why we're talking into July potentially for this river to be completely navigable.
Sixty percent of all of the grains that are exported out of the U.S., by the way, goes through this channel, and there've been a lot of restrictions put in place now because once you get those barges moving along that river, that, you know, adds weight into that water and that also sloshes things up.
So this is having a huge impact, Fredricka, not just people who are being evacuated from their homes, we're talking exports, we're talking about businesses. So many different factors come into play with this major historic event that...
WHITFIELD: Yes, that is very significant here in the U.S. Thanks so much, Jacqui Jeras. Appreciate that.
All right, also something with historical relevance in a very big way. We're talking about the capture of Osama bin Laden, the killing of Osama bin Laden, and the capture, really, of this intelligence, a large cache of intelligence at his compound.
MANN: More of our continuing coverage of the release of those new Osama bin Laden videos here in the CNN NEWSROOM coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MANN: New details are emerging about the raid that killed Osama bin Laden, including five new videos from his own personal stash.
WHITFIELD: The U.S. government -- the Department of Defense specifically -- released these images a short time ago. In one image, bin Laden is in a knit cap, rocking back and forth, watching a video of himself with a remote control, as you can see right there, in hand, another video showing him with a freshly dyed black beard. All of these tapes were confiscated in the compound where bin Laden was killed.
MANN: This is, in fact, Osama bin Laden unplugged. This is bin Laden in a way he never wanted the world to see him and had never shown himself to the world. But we have learned in the week -- roughly the week since his death that he was an isolated figure, hidden away in what turned out to be a big but rundown, ramshackle house with unpainted walls, with rather dreary furniture.
And we see in this picture this isolated figure, iconic everywhere, but there in Abbottabad, where he's just a lonely man under a blanket watching himself on TV.
WHITFIELD: And while in some respects, it still demonstrated, according to intelligence officials, that he was very much in control, you can also see in the videotape that he's either talking to or referring to, maybe even taking cues from other people in the room. And then clearly, someone else took that video image of him watching television in a much more disheveled kind of demeanor than the more kind of pressed, formally clothed images where he was preparing or appearing to be reading from a speech and delivering a message.
By the way, intelligence officials said today when they were revealing these videotapes that there was one message that was likely to be intended for the U.S. and may have been recorded as early as last fall, 2010, and that video is part of this cache. Videos, DVDs, thumb drives, all of it seized at that Osama Bin Laden compound.
JONATHAN MANN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Both concrete and symbolic impact to this. In concretes terms, it reminds people that the United States, those navy SEALs really did kill Osama Bin Laden and now U.S. authorities have access to documents and videotapes that no one else would otherwise have.
So it is a reminder that Osama Bin Laden really is dead. This replaces the images that the president decided not to release. In symbolic terms, it shows a man who basically is now being hoisted on his own petard.
This is a man who convinced the world through terror and through imagery that he was a powerful figure, the leader of an army of the faithful ready to do his bidding in service of Jihad.
Well, this is a different kind of individual video. This is Osama Bin Laden on video looking like a lonely pensioner in a quiet dark, dingy room with blanket on window all by himself with a TV.
WHITFIELD: Extraordinary and this is just a fraction of the videotape material that was seized. This was information the Department of defense extrapolated and decided these images of these five videotapes are all right.
Meet, you know, the test of the Department of Defense to reveal to the general public, really reveal to the world that this is evidence of what we seized from that compound and this is an image of Osama Bin Laden that perhaps you, the rest of the world, are not accustomed to seeing. MANN: Once again, five silent videotapes released at a very particular briefing, a Saturday briefing, a little more than three and a half hours ago. No audio, not many details.
We do know, which is interesting is that they have concluded that at least some of these videos were certainly taken inside the compound on the top right-hand corner of the screen.
You can see him in front of the armoire or cabinet that they believe they saw in the building when they raided it and also the indication that he must have been even to his critics incontrovertibly alive until the raid because of these images because some of them are so recently.
WHITFIELD: Extraordinary.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: All right, we're following that and of course, we're following a number of other items on the international landscape as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD (voice-over): On to Syria now where government forces continue their crackdown of anti-government protesters. These pictures posted on YouTube purport to show security forces burning cars in front of a government building, then blaming it on the demonstrators. CNN has not been granted access to Syria and is unable to independently verify eyewitness accounts.
MANN: And in Libya there are claims that forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi bombed fuel depots in the rebel city of Misrata causing a massive fire. There are also claims that Gadhafi's troops are using helicopters to bomb the city.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: More of our continuing coverage of the release of the new Osama Bin Laden videos seized at the compound during the raid and during the killing of Osama Bin Laden right here in the NEWSROOM right here after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANN (voice-over): Back to our big story today, a new look inside the world of Osama Bin Laden through his personal collection of videos. They were discovered in the compound after Sunday's raid, which killed him. The Pentagon released them just a short time ago.
They include images of the al Qaeda leader, recording unreleased messages for the world, presumably to spread more terror and probably most interesting, a private video of him watching himself on television wrapped in a blanket. Another shows Bin Laden in a robe. The Pentagon says it's the biggest part of an intelligence haul. Senior national security contributor Fran Townsend joins us from our D.C. studios. What do you make of this?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANCES TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR: Well, look, I think the U.S. government having decided not to release the sort of gruesome death photos of Bin Laden were looking for a way to convince the world and others that he was really dead and that the U.S. government is now in control of the Bin Laden message.
So they picked these videos, it would appear, to be pretty deliberately, but this is a man as time went on it would appear in his video statements as a statesman with the silk gold robe on speaking from a podium.
And the U.S. government decided they would show him one in this compound in Pakistan, which though it had been described as a mansion is clearly sort of this desperate little hobble. It's dirty. The TV's old, there are wires from the wall. He's wrapped in a blanket.
He looked like a prisoner. He looks frail. His beard is gray. Not a flattering light. There's another one of him where he's taping a video statement and he's flubbed it. We've all been through it, right?
You miss the cue on the prompter, the lighting is not right. Both of these are pretty unflattering. There's a third one in front of an armor, which is clearly taken inside the compound where that armor had been.
And then of courses, there's the one that had not been released, the ones that intelligence officials tell us was taped in October to early November of 2010.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOWNSEND (voice-over): We have to presume that it was in that period. That would have been right in the lead-up to midterm elections. We know from history that Bin Laden tended to try and get messages out around U.S. elections, especially either presidential or midterms in order to try to influence them.
And so interestingly that it would have been taped in that period of time. It had never been released and I think again this tape was selected by intelligence officials to make the point that Zawahiri may be out there.
And Zawahiri may think he's going to release this tape at the time of his choosing, but the U.S. government is in control of it. The U.S. government is going to put it out at the time of their choosing.
So I think what we've been -- the overall message is the U.S. government picked these very carefully, very deliberately to show they're in control and Bin Laden was vain. He was not in good circumstances and that they're now in control of his image.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MANN: Now, Washington, the president, the administration have made a decision that they would not release the photos of his corpse. In part that was because it seemed triumphant less. It seemed inappropriate. It was like spiking the football to use the president's words and it might provoke a backlash.
And the sense I'm getting listening to you and looking at these images is that they diminish Bin Laden, but they don't humiliate him enough to provoke the kind of backlash that would have been helpful.
TOWNSEND: That's probably right. Look. Personally I think if you were going to release the pictures of the corpse and you had done it right away after the operation and been done with it, that would have been fine.
You certainly could don't that three days later, a decision gets made. There had clearly been a debate inside the administration. Not everyone was in agreement with not releasing them.
So I think that they found themselves in a position they wanted to do something to show an image of him that might convince people that they really had obtained these photographs after his death inside that compound.
MANN: How much longer should the administration continue to do this, release the information it has simply because people are curious, because there's an ins assistant toward transparency.
And at what point does it become more useful to change the conversation, to end the obsession that reflected in the news media, but in the public imagination with this now dead figure?
TOWNSEND: I'll tell you. You know, those of us here in Washington are hearing from the administration. I think they're ready to move on. They're going to put Tom Donalin, the National Security adviser on the Sunday shows tomorrow and I think they're ready to change the conversation.
Here's the problem. As they go through what's been described as the largest treasure trove of intelligence from a senior terrorist ever in the history of the CIA, they're going through it. They learn things a little bit at a time.
And they have to share it with state and local law enforcement. They have to share it with foreign intelligence services. And as this intelligence dribs and drabs come out, you can't kill that story.
People are going to be interested to know what were the threats he thinking about, are they still in training, are there operatives deployed, do you know where they are, have you identified them?.
This is a story - this is a story almost impossible to kill. You can kill Bin Laden and you can stop talking about him, but the discussion of that terrorism and the threat to the United States is not going go away.
MANN: Let me ask you because we're looking at these images. You've alluded to what we're not seeing and the enormous amount of work that's going on behind the scenes.
What is it like? Are we talking about armies of analysts sitting in front of computer screens, drinking black coffee to stay awake all night?
Rolling up their short sleeves, going without sleep, eating bad food, I'm just trying to get a sense of the imagery of what we would be seeing if we could see the secret process of going through this enormous stash of data.
TOWNSEND: You've guessed pretty well. I have to say. You're going to see a large room with lot of computers. People working 24/7. They'll be working in shifts. Some don't go home or go to another room to sleep, to nap, to come back. You'll have people who can speak Arabic.
You have bodies of literally a sea of translators. They're absolutely working 24/7. First order of business that you're looking for is any indication of threats and I think that's why we've seen the administration disseminate the talk about an attack on the railways on the 10th anniversary of September 11th.
Why would they then release the intelligence about Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, Washington, D.C., being potential targets. You're going to see that and there'll be a constant pattern of that as they go through this material.
The second order of business is, is there any locational data, information on high value targets, Zawahiri, al Awlaki, any major figures. And third is really are there operatives, lower level, but operatives that may be deployed for plots - because they're sleepers or not fully developed plots.
Can you understand? They'll look for potential ties to the Pakistani intelligence service or the Pakistani military. Who else is out there that we haven't identified who's affiliated or supporting this network worldwide?
And so this will be a long term effort, but you'll hear the threat information a little bit at a time I suspect.
MANN: Fran Townsend, always fascinating hearing from you. Thanks very much.
TOWNSEND: Sure.
MANN: Well, most Americans got their first look at Bin Laden during a 1997 CNN interview conducted by Peter Bergen. Bergen's now considered one of the world's leading authorities on Bin Landen and terrorism. We talked with him by phone last hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST (via telephone): He's a guy who carefully tended his public image. He said to the leader of the Taliban 90 percent of my battle is conducted in the media. He took his media image very seriously.
So it's fascinating to see him kind of look at himself, how he's doing and also, of course, his preparation for propaganda videos and the videos that have been covered I think. It's last two times we saw him on videotape were in 2004 and 2007.
I think these are the images we're seeing right now on the screen are essentially outtakes of the two most recent times that we saw him, you know, since 9/11 on video. The image we're seeing now, Bin Laden watching himself on television, it was probably meant for internal consumption not meant obviously for what's happening right now, which is local distribution.
And al Qaeda, you know, Bin Laden has always been sort of media adviser team. This is not a flattering image as you say. But, you know, there have been people documenting him. The people in al Qaeda see him as a historical figure and it's kind of ironic by the way.
We were expecting an Osama Bin Laden propaganda videotape in this time period because we would have prepared one knowing that he was going to die at some point. Instead we get this behind the scenes material released by the U.S. government, which basically does not put him in a particularly flattering light.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: And Peter Bergen will be joining us live next hour from Los Angeles to expound more on this.
MANN: Our extensive coverage will continue right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All right, back to our breaking news today, the U.S. releasing five new videos confiscated from the compound where Osama Bin Laden was killed in Pakistan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANN: They're seen as further visual proof that Bin Laden really was there. One shows him rocking back and forth in a chair watching video of himself on TV.
His beard is gray. He's covered with a blanket. The other shows his beard dyed black. The Pentagon says the videos, computers and raw data collected at the compound are literally a treasure trove of intelligence, the largest stash of information they've ever had on a senior al Qaeda chief.
(END VIDEO CLIP) WHITFIELD: Let's talk further with Representative Barbare Lee. She was the only member of Congress to vote against the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan. She's joining us right now.
All right, well, you're getting your firsthand look at these images that the Department of Defense released today. What does this tell you about Osama Bin Laden, about the operation that led to his killing?
REPRESENTATIVE BARBARA LEE (D), CALIFORNIA: What this tells me is first of all that al Qaeda is alive and well unfortunately, and that with the president's very bold action and what he did really gives an opportunity now to really understand more about the al Qaeda network.
And we have said for many years that the fact that al Qaeda could plot terrorist plots from the rural areas of Yemen or from a hotel room in Germany. With Osama Bin Laden being dead now, I think that what our administration rightfully is doing is using the intelligence.
That they have gathered to make some determinations as to how to develop a smart security strategy, which we must have to begin to ensure our national security.
And I have to also say and comment that I think I think this also is a defining moment in terms of the war in Afghanistan, and really gives us an opportunity to look at a significant and sizable reduction of our armed forces in Afghanistan.
WHITFIELD: So --
LEE: Of course, has been the longest war in American history and I think right now --
WHITFIELD: If the plan were to withdraw troops July of this year, now as a result of Osama Bin Laden's death and nearby Pakistan, and I know you did not vote for the start of this war in Afghanistan.
Is it your feeling that the U.S. troops need go ahead and stay there until July, or are you saying that the withdrawal should take place even earlier now?
LEE: No, I'm saying that we should, as the president committed earlier on, to begin to end this war in Afghanistan with a sizable and significant reduction of troops beginning in July. Eighty members of Congress wrote to the president, bipartisan group of members a couple months ago saying that we should definitely begin to end this longest war in American history.
And I think it's really very important at this point to do that so that we can really begin to look at a smart security strategy. Again, the president has demonstrated that he knows how to deal with terrorism in the correct way.
But also recognize that we have economic priorities here at home, and these billions of dollars that we're spending in Afghanistan could be better used now in terms of economic recovery recognizing we have to continue to work to insure our national security --
WHITFIELD: Are you saying that withdrawal should be expedited as a result of Osama Bin Laden's death?
LEE: I'm saying we should see this moment as a moment to begin to really expedite, yes, the end of this longest war in American history. We have been there 10 years now. July is the date, which is president indicated he would begin to withdraw.
And I'm saying, and so has the Democratic National Committee and the 80-some members of Congress, said that we need to have a significant and sizable reduction, and begin, really, to end this war where our young men and women have performed valiantly.
They have done everything we have asked them to do, and now we need to begin to end it and bring the troops home. I believe that over 70 percent of the American public are saying just that.
WHITFIELD: Pakistan, now, that Osama Bin Laden was killed, targeted, killed in Pakistan, what is your view about the relations with Pakistan from this point forward?
Who the U.S. is able to trust, and how that might impact the ongoing war on terrorism broadly as Afghanistan and Pakistan are integral to that fight?
LEE: Certainly, this gives us a time, I believe, to really look at and reassess our relationship with Pakistan. I'm not saying we need to sever it or become distant, but I also know that we provide much military and economic aid.
And I think this gives us a time to review the aid, the conditions, and also the balance in terms of the formula between military and economic aid. Clearly something is wrong in our relationship with Pakistan and Pakistan's relationship with the United States.
And this gives us a moment to review that. We need to do that very quickly. I was shocked by what we learned as a result of Osama Bin Laden's death. I think the rest of the country has been shocked.
But I also think that we have to continue with the relationship because we have to remember that Pakistan is a nuclear armed nation and we have to have some form of global peace and security.
WHITFIELD: Thank you -
LEE: -- to be able to live in the world with every nation.
WHITFIELD: All right, Representative Barbara Lee. Thanks so much. Also she's the author of "Renegade for Peace and Justice." Appreciate your time. Thank you.
LEE: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: Of course, we'll have more on our continuing coverage of the stash of intelligence that is also being shared with the general public by way of the Department of Defense's release earlier today.>
MANN: Strange television from Pakistan. You're seeing it here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM where the news unfolds live this May 7th. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.
MANN: And I'm Jonathan Mann joining you from CNN International.
WHITFIELD: We're getting you a new glimpse inside the inner sanctum of Osama Bin Laden. The U.S. government today releasing five videos seized from the compound where he was killed in Pakistan.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD (voice-over): One in particular has been catching people's attention. It shows a dilapidated room, Osama Bin Laden right there. Watching television, remote control in hand, a wool cap on and a blanket around his shoulders and apparently, he is looking, by way of video, at satellite television, looking at various images of himself being conveyed around the world.
MANN: You know one of our colleagues made a comment worth repeating, which there are probably a lot of living rooms in Pakistan that look just like that to American, to someone elsewhere in the world that might seem like a particularly dingy or sad place.
Well, I think to some extent, it still does knowing that this man claimed to lead an army of Jihadists all over the world. We see him in settings much more modest than we would have expected even if they would be common to people in the developing world.
They're less than we expected of Osama Bin Laden and the videos themselves were actually released in a very dramatic fashion, after that raid, of course, that took Bin Laden's life.
There was a news conference. Journalists were called to Washington to hear at the Pentagon from an intelligence official who basically gave them some background and then gave them a chance to see portions of these videos.
WHITFIELD: Right, but no recording devices were allowed. None of the 50 reporters were allowed to have any recording devices, no video of that briefing. Instead, it was a matter of taking notes, listening, and watching the video, which was selected by the Department of Defense.
Some of the video that was parcelled out among the large cache of videos that were seized, and only very specific images that the Department of Defense then released, of course, this is what we're looking right now to the general public, used the same images that the reporters saw inside that briefing.
(END VIDEOTAPE) MANN: Part, once again, of what the Pentagon is calling a treasure- trove of intelligence. The biggest cache of information captures from a single terror suspect.
WHITFIELD: CNN's Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr was at the briefing, and she brings us this update.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: This was distributed to the news media today by the Obama administration. A very unusual Saturday press briefing, very small fraction we are told of the intelligence haul.
They're describing it as the largest cache of intelligence they have gotten from a senior terrorist figure ever. They are going through it, through all of that, handwritten documents, videos, DVDs, thumb drives, all of it, to get any clues that they can.
The videos that they have distributed are very much a product of what the U.S. government has decided to show the world. Let's be very clear about that. There is no audio on them. That's been stripped off. They say they don't want to be in the business of distributing Osama Bin Laden's message.
For the videos, as you say, show Bin Laden with his beard and his facial hair dyed black. He's in more formal clothing, very much reading remarks. One of the first videos is labelled a message to America where he attacks America and capitalism again his basic message. But it is this, I think, that is capturing the world's attention. Bin Laden with no dye on his beard, a man hunched over a TV, his beard white, his facial hair white, a blanket around his shoulders, a cap on, peering at the television, looking at images of himself.
We're told this all goes to the assessment they have that Bin Laden was obsessed with his own image. Very involved in how he looked, how he presented himself to the world. He is scouring news casts on a satellite television channel to look at the pictures of himself.
Where does that leave us? What do we know about Al Qaeda? What do we know about Bin Laden? What the senior intelligence official says is the assessment is that Bin Laden was in fairly direct control of Al Qaeda. Strategic control, offering the big picture guidance. Tactical and operational control, getting down into the weeds, the details, the planning, the plots. That he had the ability to do this, and this is what he had been doing for the last several years.
He was doing this through a trusted group of couriers. Use of thumb drives, use of a lot of operational security at his compound so he could not be tracked. In the end, it was a courier who inadvertently gave him up. What are they saying about Al Qaeda? They say all the evidence they have, that the U.S. government has, is that Al Qaeda is still interested in attacking the United States. They are combing through the intelligence for any clues about current plots and plans, and of course, they are looking very carefully to see who emerges as the next leader of Al Qaeda.
WHITFIELD: Barbara Starr, thanks so much at the Pentagon. So the Bin Laden videos will undoubtedly be of interest to people in Afghanistan as well
