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U.S. Releases Bin Laden Videos; The 9/11 Conspirators

Aired May 07, 2011 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: The breaking news this hour: we continue to analyze the tape's released by U.S. intelligence officials of Osama bin Laden.

Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Drew Griffin.

FIONNUALA SWEENEY, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening, good morning, wherever you are, as we welcome our viewers from around the world and the United States. I'm Fionnuala Sweeney.

GRIFFIN: We are getting a look at these new videos seized from Osama bin Laden's hideout, five different videos of the man who was the world's most wanted terrorist, released today by U.S. intelligence officials in Washington, each of them with the sound removed to avoid spreading bin Laden's words.

SWEENEY: Some are surprisingly candid. One of the videos shows bin Laden watching himself on television, holding a remote control. Another is said to be a message to the United States recorded in October or November.

They're just part of the treasure trove of evidence gathered from the compound in Abbottabad in Pakistan.

GRIFFIN: Our own Barbara Starr was called in for a special briefing today when intelligence officials released these new videotapes.

SWEENEY: And Barbara walks us through the images you see on each one.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's the Osama bin Laden you've never seen, huddled in front of a television in a modestly furnished room intently watching broadcasts of himself. This is bin Laden obsessed with monitoring and controlling his image, a U.S. intelligence official told reporters.

In more formal tapes, he dyed his hair black -- projecting the image he wanted the world to see the feared leader of al Qaeda.

FRANCES FRAGOS TOWNSEND, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISOR: I think the overall message is the U.S. government picked these very carefully, very deliberately, to show they're in control, and that bin Laden was vain, he was not in very good circumstances, and that they're now in control of his image.

STARR: The U.S. government distributed a portion of five videos taken from the compound. The U.S. stripped off the audio. The official said the U.S. doesn't want to be broadcasting bin Laden messages.

The official said the videos, thumb drives, disks and documents taken from the compound make up the single largest collection of terrorist materials ever seized. It's all being analyzed for clues about new threats.

Releasing the video was part of the Obama administration's effort to show material that could have only been taken from the raid. The armoire on this tape identified as being inside the compound. If some doubt he is dead, the administration says the DNA match had a one in 11.8 quadrillion chance of being wrong.

This video begins with the title from Osama bin Laden to the American people. The U.S. believes it was made between October 9th and November 5th of last year, around the time of the American midterm elections. In it, bin Laden criticizes the U.S.

The U.S. conclusion about bin Laden: the al Qaeda leader was far from a figurehead in the weeks and months before he was killed. The U.S. intelligence official noted that, quote, "He was an active player, making a recent operation even more essential for our nation's security."

TOWNSEND: Clearly, he had views on operational ideas, operational plans, and he was about trying to send and use these couriers and these thumb drives that were captured in order to send his directions, his ideas, back to operatives who would actually execute those plans.

STARR: But for an American audience at least, the videos show some of bin Laden's vulnerability -- a wrinkled sheet for a background, a missed queue during a taping and a room with hanging wires and few furnishings where an old man stares at a television.

(on camera): So, what happens next? A U.S. official says they do believe al Qaeda has been damaged by the killing of Osama bin Laden. But they are watching very carefully to see who emerges as the next leader of the terrorist network.

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Well, lots of international relations also damaged by this. No secret, deep mistrust between the U.S. and Pakistan at the moment.

SWEENEY: So, the question is: how will the release of these tapes affect already strained relations?

Reza Sayah is monitoring reactions in Pakistan's capital.

And I suspect, in the very early hours of the morning there in Islamabad, it's going to be difficult to garner reaction. But if I could ask you, first of all, Reza, from the Osama bin Laden that you knew and you have studied, what did you make of these tapes?

REZA SAYAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that the stark contrast between the Osama bin Laden that wanted to present himself to the public where he has a very polished image, we see in these images that he has a beard that is dyed black and then we have the private image of a man who's purportedly Osama bin Laden sitting in that bleak, Spartan like room covered with a blanket, holding a remote control and flipping through the television channel. It's a very different image.

Image has obviously been important for world leaders when it comes to presenting themselves to the public, whether it's political campaigns or delivering messages. And it seems like he's clearly picked up on the importance of that. And this is a man who obviously cared about his image.

One thing we should point out about the room that we see him in, in this one piece of video, a lot of people have been talking about it and describing it as dilapidated and run down. We should point out that it's not unusual for rooms in homes in this region in Pakistan to look like that. It certainly isn't the mansion that was initially described when this raid was conducted in Pakistan. But our viewers should know that it's not unusual in this particular region in Pakistan for rooms in homes to look like that.

GRIFFIN: Reza, this -- I mean, after 9/11, there was a huge focus on the intelligence gathering in the United States, it was a blunder, missed steps that led to an overhaul of the intelligence gathering in the U.S. The fact that Pakistan, if we believe what we're hearing, missed Osama bin Laden living under its nose for six -- five or six years, is that likely to lead to an overall in the Pakistan intelligence service?

SAYAH: Well, look, there's a lot of questions now surrounding the Pakistan's security apparatus, the security establishment here specifically, that the spy agencies and the military. This is a military and an army that takes pride in behind the scenes being the strongest institution in the country, and it's rarely questioned. But now, not only are the questions coming globally from Washington, now you're hearing questions domestically from the public.

And these are difficult and pressing questions that the Pakistani intelligence agencies and military must to answer. First and foremost, how is it possible that after years of denial, that the leader of al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden himself, was living in a compound right under the noses of the military?

The first few days after this raid earlier this week, they remained quiet. But over the past couple of days, they've gone on damage control, sending out messages that he had no idea that he lived there, calling for evidence. They're saying, if Washington is accusing the military of knowing that he was there, they want to see evidence. They've made statements that they didn't know he was there, not everyone is convinced.

SWEENEY: Seven minutes past 4:00 in the morning in Islamabad, Reza Sayah, we will leave you there as the Muslim call to prayer resonates around you.

GRIFFIN: Well, in Afghanistan, some consider bin Laden a hero. That's where he fought against Soviet invaders decades ago. So, what's the reaction there to these videos? We'll have a live report just ahead.

SWEENEY: Plus, new insight into this iconic photo of U.S. leaders during the operation that led to bin Laden's death.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: We are getting more breaking news on this day and this is coming out of Egypt.

SWEENEY: Yes. Journalist Ian Lee joins us now by phone, because we're hearing about strained relations which have always been part of Egyptian society between Christians and Muslims. But violence breaking out today and we're joined now by a journalist, as I say, Ian Lee.

Ian, can you just update us what took place in Cairo tonight?

IAN LEE, JOURNALIST (via telephone): Well, earlier tonight, there was a church in this Cairo neighborhood that was attacked by Salafist Muslims. They were going after the church according to people on the scene because they thought a woman who allegedly converted from Christianity to Islam and then went missing was hiding out in this church. So, they were allegedly -- we were told -- they were going to free her from this church. The Christians resisted.

And right now, the government's recording five people dead and, you know, scores injured.

SWEENEY: And what kind of a neighborhood is this? And if I'm correct, if we could just run over this, you say a Christian woman was converting to Islam and she's now hiding in a Christian Coptic church?

LEE: Well, that's what the people who attacked, that's what they were thinking. They were going to liberate or free her from this church. But, you know, this has been a very big issue in Egypt because the Christians say she didn't convert and Salafists said that she did. So, they see -- you know, they have rallied before to free her.

But tonight, these -- it turned violent and with the Salafists attacking the church and the police and army moving in to secure the scene.

SWEENEY: Well, this is the scene. And I don't know if you have access to a television screen at the moment in Cairo, but this is the scene, we're told, from an activist organization outside the church. And you can see the standoff continuing.

There was, of course, violence at Christmas and the New Year again between Christians and Muslims. And I want to know: how does this play into what some would say is a rather uncertain path on the part of Egyptians to democracy? LEE: Well, it's definitely one of the growing pains of Egypt's transformation into democracy. Earlier this year, al Qaeda pulled Egyptians to attack Coptic Christians in Egypt because of this woman who was alleged converted. So, this is issue that has been simmering here for a long time.

And after, you know, the Mubarak regime kept a tight lid on the Salafist, and now, as Egypt is growing through this transitional period, security isn't as tight as we have seen before. And so, we're seeing a lot more of these sectarian clashes than we did prior to the revolution.

SWEENEY: Ian Lee, for the moment, thank you very much indeed -- joining us there on the line from Cairo where there has been some clashes, five people reported dead in increased Muslim-Christian sectarianism as it's being described as this country continues on its path -- some say it was an uncertain path to democracy.

GRIFFIN: More now on our breaking news we have been covering all day, the release of the Osama bin Laden tapes from his home in Pakistan.

Our special coverage continuing now, with reaction from around the world.

CNN's Stan Grant live in Afghanistan.

Stan, this is where this man was revered. Is that likely to be the case after the people wake up and realize that their leader was perhaps in some less affluent, somewhat shabby condition, living in a suburb in Pakistan?

STAN GRANT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You're right, Drew, and certainly loomed very large in these people's lives and their imaginations for a long time now. And people I've spoken to just over the past week have described him as being invincible. In fact, many couldn't believe that he was, in fact, dead.

Not all of them, some people were certainly very anti- bin Laden, blaming him for bringing war to their country and for ruining the lives of thousands or millions of people here.

But, certainly, when you see these images, it's very much at odds with the very carefully cultivated mythology or image that bin Laden has projected over the years. People are used to seeing him in a very forceful manner, enigmatic, charismatic figure, often seen wearing battle fatigues and carrying a gun -- certainly not the image of a man huddled over a television wearing a blanket in a nondescript room and obviously looking much older and much more frail.

So, you're right. He's really going to shake up those perceptions of bin Laden and the mythology that's built up around the man.

SWEENEY: And, Stan, it's quarter to 4:00 in the morning as we can see there in Kabul, and probably a little early for reaction. As the U.S. contemplates pursuing this drawdown in U.S. troops, of the number of U.S. troops in Afghanistan, how would you describe the security situation in the country?

GRANT: Yes. Well, just this day, we've seen more attacks launched by the Taliban. The Taliban have announced that they're about to begin their spring offensive and they've launched attacks in the province of Kandahar. There were multiple explosions there, a number of people left dead and wounded.

They targeted government installations, the national police headquarters. In fact, they said they were trying to kill or abduct the governor -- and that drew a response from the foreign forces and also Afghan forces who were able to drive the militants out.

But it once again shows what a potent force they can be and how entrenched the Taliban are in different parts of the country 10 years on into this war. And, of course, part of it was the backing that bin Laden had given over the years, recruitment and also financing the organization.

We talked to people here, there's a long way to go to before bringing the Taliban situation under control. In fact, in the end, there has to be a negotiated settlement and some power-sharing agreement. That all depends on finding partners in the Taliban to actually work with. Right now, the Taliban is saying they're going to continue with their offensive -- Fionnuala.

GRIFFIN: Well, Stan, let me ask you -- does this change the game as far as the U.S. involvement is concerned? Is there a concern that the killing of Osama bin Laden will speed up the leaving of U.S. troops and leave Afghanistan fighting Taliban on its own?

GRANT: We know there is the scheduled drawdown of troops and there has been cause within the U.S., and indeed some parts of Afghanistan here for different reasons for the foreign forces, the U.S. forces, to leave. Now, Afghans who say they should leave say they simply want an end to any occupation and any foreign force in this country. They say they want to be able to run their affairs themselves.

Now, people, of course, in the United States saying it's time to get out, cut the losses, why stay there any longer? Particularly when you see the Taliban regroup and launch those attacks once again.

But when you talk to more realistic people on the ground, they say there's still so much to be done. They remember the fact that in the past, there's been a pullout or certainly with the war in Iraq, attention was drawn away from Afghanistan, and that gave the Taliban the ability to regroup and to increase its forces, increase it's strike power. They're saying that the U.S. needs to stay the course, not just to deal with security in Afghanistan, but to secure the U.S. as well, and try to prevent any further attack there.

GRIFFIN: All right, Stan Grant, live in Kabul, Afghanistan -- thanks, Stan.

And just ahead: imagine sitting in your living room, watching television and seeing -- seeing -- the U.S. Navy SEALs as they take out Osama bin Laden. It's quite possible that the Obama administration was doing exactly that.

SWEENEY: And we are going to show you how technology connects troops in remote foxholes to their military leaders in Washington. You'll be amazed. It's not just a Hollywood stunt anymore. That's after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: In case you're just joining us, this is what U.S. intelligence officials released today at the Pentagon. Five separate tapes of Osama bin Laden, tapes taken from the home where he was killed, evidence showing Osama bin Laden taping some of his pre-taped speeches that he's released in the past, and also one glaring image of him disheveled, old, looking at a small TV, quite -- not looking quite like a man who was in charge of a terrorist network.

The operation, of course, to capture or kill Osama bin Laden was planned over many months. It was executed in just minutes.

SWEENEY: And we don't know if the White House watched as it happened. But the technology does exist to observe every moment in real time.

And CNN's Mary Snow shows us one such system.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's become an iconic image -- the president and top officials in the White House Situation Room monitoring the mission to get Osama bin Laden; CIA Director Leon Panetta doing the same at CIA headquarters.

Until now, seeing a mission unfold in real time from thousands of miles away was the stuff of Hollywood. Remember "Patriot Games" -- when the CIA's Jack Ryan watched the terrorist camp on a satellite feed? Nearly two decades after that movie, retired Army General Dennis Moran says most people are unaware of the kind of technology the military now uses.

GEN. DENNIS MORAN, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Sometimes, they watch TV and, you know, shows like "24," and they think this kind of capability is -- you know, is just science fiction.

SNOW: General Moran works for a company supplying the military and Special Forces with equipment to transmit sound and images from battlefields. Moran says he does not know what kind of technology was used in the Osama bin Laden raid.

And the CIA director told PBS he did not see Osama bin Laden get shot.

LEON PANETTA, CIA DIRECTOR: We had some observation of the approach there, but we did not have direct flow of information as to the actual conduct of the operation itself as they were going through the compound.

SNOW: General Moran showed us one way the military can monitor situations on the ground through these cameras worn or helmets. (on camera): This kind of equipment allows a soldier to communicate both by video and audio. They wear this in their backpack. And it weighs about 11 pounds.

And with a tiny camera, you can transmit video and audio to local command centers several miles away.

(voice-over): A command center, says General Moran, could be in a Humvee and pulled up on a laptop, or it can be transmitted to a plane where the range is much greater. And then the images, even instant messages, can be sent by secured satellite to a central command center that could be anywhere.

Exciting technology, yes, says General Moran, but it also poses challenges.

MORAN: There's always the danger of having connectivity or the fear of being connected from the foxhole to the White House and what will that really mean. Well, now, we have technology that enables them. And so, leaders and commanders at all level need to understand that they need to allow the commanders on the battlefield to execute the mission that they have been given, give them the resources that they need, and only react as appropriate.

SNOW (on camera): This is just one company providing this technology and it says it started being used about two years ago. And it says one crucial use beyond monitoring battles is to try and match biometric information instantly -- things like fingerprints, facial recognition and iris scan, something that could have taken days to do in the past.

Mary Snow, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Retired Army General Dennis Moran joins us live from our Washington bureau. He's vice president of Government Business Development at Harris Corporation.

SWEENEY: And, General, explain, first of all, if you will, this technology for our viewers. How does it work?

MORAN: Well, the -- you know, first of all, we just don't know what really occurred on the ground in that great mission just barely a week ago. But we do know that there was technology very similar to what's in front of me here and whether it be a small handheld radio which was attached to each one of the gear of each one of the SEALs that were conducting the mission so they could talk and share information against each other, or key leaders would have been carrying larger equipment that had connectivity back to headquarters, that either aboard ships or on airplanes that allowed both voice information and video if it was being sent to go back to higher headquarters.

The video could have easily been sent by just a simple camera that would be attached to the helmet as I'm showing here -- and would be connected just in a simple cable to a radio like the one that's in front of me here, either transmitted directly to an airplane above it or connected via satellite back to a higher headquarters.

So, all the technology that's necessary to keep these images flowing back to higher headquarters is certainly available. It's just to the concept of operations chosen by the commanders on whether they would actually use them or not.

GRIFFIN: General, we have to take the CIA director's word for it that he did not see the actual killing of Osama bin Laden, perhaps we can gain from that that the president didn't either. But did somebody? Was there somebody in the command and control situation who was not involve directly inside that house have the ability to watch what was happening and perhaps make the call, "That's him, kill him"?

MORAN: Well, I can only speculate whether they could or could not see it. I just know that there is very simple technology that can be easily integrated into the equipment that these great SEALs were wearing that would allow them to either videotape that kind of information and then bring it back for the debriefings or to provide connectivity so that it could be viewed during the operation. We could speculate what should occur, but I suspect there is both video and photographic evidence that's going to be available for exploitation.

GRIFFIN: If you could hit on that point again -- there's no doubt that there was video taken inside and during and throughout this operation, via helmet cam or whatever, that now I'm sure intelligence officials are have in hand. So, they have a shot, if you will, of Osama bin Laden in the second -- split-second before he was killed?

MORAN: Well, Drew, I certainly can't confirm that. And I've got no direct knowledge that there is. I'm just stating that, certainly, the technology is there, and I would certainly be surprised if it wasn't implemented.

GRIFFIN: General, thank you so much. Very interesting story with Mary Snow and, obviously, interesting technology there, Harris Corporation. Thank you so much, General, for coming in.

MORAN: Thank you.

GRIFFIN: More on the Osama bin Laden videos is ahead. But, first, a disaster unfolding right here in the heartland of the United States.

SWEENEY: We'll look at how people are running from the Mississippi River as it floods to historic proportions. Floodwaters are covering towns from Missouri to Louisiana.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FIONNUALA SWEENEY, CNN ANCHOR: There you are watching five excerpts from video released by U.S. intelligence earlier today, Saturday. And it shows Osama Bin Laden preparing to make a recorded speech, rehearsing, sometimes tripping up over his world or indeed making an address to the American people and the world. In the center box there, if you haven't seen it is of an older man, Osama Bin Laden with gray beard channel surfing on the television as you can see there. And let's check some of our other top stories. In Libya, the fiery aftermath of fuel depots apparently bombed by Moammar Gadhafi's forces. A rebel spokesman says helicopters with the Red Cross and Red Crescent symbols were used in the attacks. Misrata has seen fierce fighting in recent weeks. It is the only western city still held by rebels.

GRIFFIN: Protests getting deadly once again in Syria, on Saturday, government tanks and troops stormed villages on the Mediterranean coast. The demonstrations turned violent when security forces headed for Banias entered a nearby town. People there formed a human chain, trying to block the soldiers, witnesses say security forces opened fire. Four women reportedly killed, many others injured.

Atlantic Southeast Airlines here in the U.S. is investigating why two Muslim men were removed from one of its flights last night in Memphis, Tennessee. The men are imams and were in traditional Muslim clothing. They told our affiliate WCNC that they were heading to Charlotte for a conference on Islamophobia when the plane turned around on the tarmac so that TSA agents could detain them. The imam say they were told that some of the passengers were uncomfortable they were on board. Atlantic Southeast has apologized.

And you can hear the imam's story live when they join us live during the 10:00 p.m. Eastern hour.

SWEENEY: The Mississippi River is surging towards flood levels not seen in more than 70 years. Parts of Tennessee are under water and residents in more than 1,000 homes in the Memphis area have been urged to evacuate. The Mississippi is supposed to crest in Memphis nearly 14 feet above flood stage on Wednesday. So far eight states have been impacted by the historic flooding from the river. Meteorologists say some areas will be dealing with high water until July.

GRIFFIN: Yes, the Mississippi far from finished, Mississippi state and Louisiana are in its sights and meteorologist Jacqui Jeras is tracking this severe weather flood event. Jacqui, it's like a slow moving disaster is what we keep hearing.

JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, it really is. We literally have hundreds of miles for this high water to travel and it will still be impacting thousands of people. The river has really crested basically around New Madrid, Missouri, in this area so it has all this way to go to make its way down towards the Gulf of Mexico, any additional rain at this point is certainly not welcome as the ground is so saturated, every little drop that falls is just going to run right off and eventually make its way into the river. The rain is finally starting to pull out a little bit today. So that's the good news that we have to tell you but the forecast for the next five days showing you that we could see anywhere between about one and two inches move in throughout that basin, so that is certainly not good to see.

Let's take a look at some of the cities down the line. We heard Memphis, Tennessee mentioned where more than 1,000 homes are at risk at this hour, May 11th. So that's on Wednesday, at 14 feet above flood stage and then at Nixburg, Mississippi (INAUDIBLE) Red River (INAUDIBLE) and then Baton Rouge on the 23rd. So we're talking about weeks and the crest is going to stay high. So Drew and Fionnuala something to keep in mind that even though the river has crested in some of these areas, it's going to stay in flood for weeks yet.

GRIFFIN: Jacqui, thanks for that update.

Our coverage of the Osama Bin Laden tapes continues and will these images dispel some of the myths surrounding Bin Laden, among his followers?

SWEENEY: Plus a look at what Bin Laden's role with Al Qaeda may have been after 9/11, we'll have reaction from CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: We've been discussing all day the release of these tapes, the breaking news that came out this afternoon. U.S. intelligence officials releasing five videos, videos taken from inside of Osama Bin Laden's home, tapes seized after he was killed in that raid in Pakistan.

SWEENEY: So let's bring in CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank. When were these images, I'm wondering, will they puncture Osama Bin Laden's myth that he might have among his followers or not?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, it's possible that was the reason they were released because they have a different image of Bin Laden than the one he so carefully cultivated for himself. Bin Laden tried to present himself over the years as a heroic but humble figure, a man full of jihadist, of vitality, dyeing his beard black in all of these videotapes.

But now we're seeing Bin Laden as an ageing figure, somewhat narcissistically looking at videotapes of himself. So it's a sort of a different image that some of this followers were being used to. But I don't think it's really going to dramatically alter that perception of Bin Laden. There was nothing ostentatious about this video of Bin Laden. It wasn't like he was looking at a flat screen and he was on some sort of gilded chair. So I don't think it will really dramatically alter the image of Bin Laden, Fionnuala.

GRIFFIN: Paul, what does this tell you, though, about his media strategy and how perhaps attached he was to his own image?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, it illustrates how important the media strategy really was to Bin Laden. He told Mullah Omar (ph) in the 90s that the media part of it was 90 percent of the battle, and since 9/11, Bin Laden has released around 30 statements, more than 30 statements, many of them audiotapes, some videotapes, some written statements, and through those statements he's trying to exert strategic direction over the Al Qaeda organization, signaling to recruit, where they should attack, when they should attack, how they should attack.

He's also presented himself as sort of a global Islamic statesman, coming out with statements after the Pakistani floods last summer, even getting into debates about global warming. But we haven't heard a tape yet reacting to this Arab spring, the democracy movement sweeping the Middle East. But we understand that in the next week, Bin Laden will release a tape on that, but that will be his last tape. And Al Qaeda won't have that key messenger now, at a time when the group is sort of virtually irrelevant in a lot of the Arab world, Drew.

SWEENEY: And how much do you think we might learn about - learn publicly at least about Bin Laden's post-9/11 operational role within Al Qaeda? How much is - how do you decide the fine line, I suppose, between what is in the public interest and what is actually distinctly not?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, U.S. investigators are clearly poring over all these information they're now getting out of the compound and what that's saying is it shows that Bin Laden is much more operationally involve than I think anybody really thought, that he continued to exert command and control over the Al Qaeda organization.

Now some of this information may be helpful for U.S. authorities to go after senior Al Qaeda leaders, perhaps Ayman al Zawahiri. According to western intelligence, he remained in close contact with Bin Laden in recent years and was perhaps in relatively close geographic proximity, so someone like Zawahiri may be in some jeopardy right now. The junior members of Al Qaeda, the mid level commanders of Al Qaeda in the tribal areas of Pakistan, well Al Qaeda kept some fire walls between them and Zawahiri and Bin Laden.

Western recruits who recently went to tribal areas of Pakistan came back saying they weren't allowed to meet Bin Laden or Ayman al Zawahiri for operational security reasons but this may help the United States go after some of these top leaders like Zawahiri who continued to be in touch with Bin Laden, Fionnuala.

GRIFFIN: Well, I don't know if it struck you but it struck me at the time when we learned about Osama Bin Laden supposedly being very involved in the operational role, and all this material was found, thumb drives, you know, descriptive plans being written down. It gave me the feeling of this is it? This is where Al Qaeda has been run from for the past five years? And I would think that would be somewhat of a letdown for all of this man's followers. He was basically isolated, running his information in and out with couriers and you know, with very limited technology. Did that strike you at all or am I reading this wrong?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, you know, that's right to some degree. Yes. And this guy, you know, I mean, his death is a huge blow to Al Qaeda. He was the charismatic figure within the organization, the guy who was really inspiring all these recruits to join the organization, to launch attacks, even individuals who didn't join the organization were inspired by Bin Laden to launch attacks and Drew, some of the people that we reported together on, even here in New York City, inspired by Bin Laden, loving Bin Laden and the jihad that he was advocating. So Bin Laden, a hugely important figure over the years to Al Qaeda. Now he's gone, there is no charismatic figure like him to take over, and Zawahiri who is very likely to take over the organization now has none of his charisma, a much more divisive and polarizing figure. So Al Qaeda really has lost a key, key figure here. Drew.

GRIFFIN: All right. Paul Cruickshank, thanks for joining here from New York tonight. Our terrorism expert, we always appreciate your insight.

Well the name Osama Bin Laden is synonymous with terror for years now, of course.

SWEENEY: However, this newly released video reveals a very different image. What the pictures say about the man who was the world's most wanted terrorist.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: It's the breaking news we've been following all day. The five videotapes released of Osama Bin Laden tapes taken from his home in Pakistan after he was killed, taken by the Navy S.E.A.L.S who killed them. The secret life of the world's most wanted terrorist, as we examine these videos, we're also talking about the future of Al Qaeda, where it goes now.

Tom Fuentes, former assistant director of the FBI'S office of international operations joins us. Good to have you with us again, Tom, as we have been talking to you throughout the afternoon and I want to pick up something I asked Paul Cruickshank about, which is my surprise at how small the Al Qaeda operation apparently was if in fact Osama Bin Laden was running the operation from this home. Did that strike you at all?

TOM FUENTES, FMR. ASST. DIRECTOR, FBI: It has struck me, Drew. I think the question there is that one of the reports coming out about Al Qaeda's pending attacks was to place an item on a railroad track and derail a train in the United States. If Al Qaeda is reduced to pulling teenaged pranks as acts of terrorism, then I think it's pretty clear that they're vastly diminished from the old Al Qaeda.

And I think another point to make here is that I think the United States' government has done something very, very clever. For the last 15 years, the images of Bin Laden, any time his name has been mentioned by worldwide media, the immediate picture shown on the screen is of the macho warrior, strolling in the mountains of Afghanistan with his AK-47 taking on the Soviet Union. And so for tens of thousands of teenaged boys in the last 15 years, he has been this version of the Lone Ranger, the hero, the macho guy and I think now by releasing these videos, especially the one with the disheveled old man watching the TV screen, that maybe the new video that's shown anytime his name comes out in the future from now and forever. And that may be an excellent change of view perpetrated by the U.S. government releasing that exact video.

GRIFFIN: Good point, Tom. We call it stock video and we always go to the most recent video and as you say that now is the most image of Osama Bin Laden, the last one we're left with. Let me ask you about our relationship with Pakistan and what this means going forward. We have been told that Pakistan is our ally in the fight against and quite frankly from what I've heard, they've gone to great lengths to kill terrorists in their country. Are you concern that that relationship is breaking?

FUENTES: Not really, not for the long run. I think there's going to be difficult times in the short run here but they need us desperately. We need them desperately. And that's just a fact of life and we're going to have to figure out how to make it work together. And they have made the point that they have lost thousands of military personnel, police personnel, civilians, two attacks by Al Qaeda and by the Taliban. So they have paid a great price in the war on terror themselves.

But, yes, there are factions within their military and within the ISI that are loyal to the Taliban, are loyal to Bin Laden and his followers. So those parts or those elements will have to be rooted out, but they need us and I think that the embarrassment of this, you know, while it's great, you know, in fairness to them, there's a lot to be said for the possibility that they really didn't know he was there.

And you know, we saw the video of Nic Robertson walking around the neighborhood. There are many houses in that neighborhood that have high walls with barbed wire that are two, three stories high, that you can't see through the walls and don't know who's in there. In fact, watching those videos, I was hoping he'd knock on a couple of doors and say, "Zawahiri, are you in here?" He could be in the same neighborhood. If he never came out of the compound, if he dyed his beard or always had shawls and other things to cover up when he walked around even in his courtyard it would be very difficult for someone outside that neighborhood to know who's in there and you know, what he's doing.

GRIFFIN: All right. Tom Fuentes, always great to get your view on these matters especially with your experience. Thanks a lot for coming in.

FUENTES: Thank you, Drew.

GRIFFIN: We're not done with the tapes nor with what they reveal about Osama Bin Laden. An aging man crouched before a TV, a junkie TV, I might add, in a darkened room. Not exactly how most people picture the man who called for global jihad.

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GRIFFIN: The purpose behind releasing these five videotapes, one of them at least, is to show these tapes were taken from inside the home that Osama Bin Laden was killed and he is, indeed, dead. It is also worth remembering though that the other major players in the 9/11 attacks and where they are now.

At the top is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed regarded as the mastermind of the those attacks, captured in Pakistan in 2003. He's in gitmo. Next comes Walid Bin Attash. He was the mastermind of the attack on the USS Cole. He is believed to have helped recruit and picked those 19 hijackers who took control of airliners and died in the 9/11 suicide attacks. He too is in custody at Guantanamo Bay.

Now widely believed that this man, Mohammed Al-Qahtani was supposed to be the 20th hijacker, was refused entry into the U.S.. He was among the first captured when the U.S. invaded Afghanistan in 2001. He's also enjoying himself also in Guantanamo Bay. Ramzi Bin Al-Shibh acted a go between for Khalid Sheik Mohamed and the hijackers. He too is in Guantanamo Bay. Ali Abdul Aziz Ali involved in financing the entire operation, providing money to the hijackers and buying flight simulation materials. He was captured in 2003, also in custody in Guantanamo Bay.

Mustama Ahmed Al-Hawsawi is known as Al Qaeda's operations facilitator. As with the others, he was in custody at Guantanamo Bay. There is only one other major player in the 9/11 conspiracy and he's not in custody. His whereabouts are unknown. That man right there. Ayman al-Zawahiri, known as Osama Bin Laden's top lieutenant. Often the one seen next to Bin Laden in those videos. He's presumed to be alive somewhere. Perhaps best positioned to take over Al Qaeda. His whereabouts, not known.

More on those new Bin Laden videos coming up. We'll look at this one and others, just part of the bounty from the raid on the compound in Pakistan.

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GRIFFIN: Earlier this afternoon at the Pentagon, U.S. intelligence officials released these five selected videotapes, videotapes of Osama Bin Laden made inside his compound before he died. Tapes that reveal how he was living, where he was living and proof, intelligence officers say, that he is dead. It is a side of Bin Laden we certainly didn't mean for the public to see. You can take a look at this one particular scene, it shows a gray-bearded Bin Laden watching television images of himself with a remote control in his hand.

This is just one of the videos seized by the Navy S.E.A.L.s when they raided Bin Laden's compounds and killed him last Sunday in Pakistan. Other videos released today by the U.S. government show Bin Laden in more formal poses, segments clearly intended for broadcast. Before the government made these available the audio was deleted to keep any Al Qaeda propaganda messages from coming out, we are told.

Two Muslim imams are removed from a flight because passengers are uncomfortable with them on the plane. It happened last night on a flight from Memphis to Charlotte. Coming up at 10:00 Eastern both of these men will join me to tell their stories. You don't want to miss it? So join us tonight at 10:00 Eastern for that interview.

I'm Drew Griffin at CNN World Headquarters here in Atlanta. I hope to see you back here at 10:00 Eastern. Right now, a Larry King special. "THE ALZHEIMER'S EPIDEMIC." It is next.