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Immigration: U.S. v. Arizona; Arresting Students in Class; Former Rapper Running for Miami-Dade Mayor; Pakistan's Angry Response; Tale of Two Baby Boomers; Imams Taken Off Plane, Pilots' Responsibility; Bin Laden as Campaign Issue
Aired May 09, 2011 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Your move, Arizona. A little over a year after Arizona Governor Jan Brewer signed a far-reaching attempt by the state to enforce immigration law, she is still fighting to enact it -- at least we think she's still fighting. Brewer has scheduled a briefing this hour in Phoenix -- right now, in fact -- where she is supposed to tell us whether and how she'll continue a federal court battle that hasn't been going her way.
I'm sure you remember the uproar both for and against S.B. 1070 as it's known. Well, so far, a district court and just last month, an appeals court, have barred the state from allowing local police to stop and apprehend those people that they reasonably suspect of being in the U.S. illegally.
Washington has sued, claiming immigration is a federal matter. But Brewer's side claims the feds are falling down on the job.
In the meantime, it's worth pointing out that parts of SB 1070 have actually already taken into effect. They ban so-called sanctuary cities which openly welcome undocumented migrants. They make it a crime to tie up traffic while hiring day laborers. And they slap sanctions on employers who hire illegal works.
So, while we wait for news out of Phoenix, I want to bring in CNN's Rafael Romo for "Two at the Top" now. He's actually studied this issue from near and far.
What do you expect? And what options does the governor have right now in Arizona?
RAFAEL ROMO, SR. LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR: Well, at this point she has three options.
Number one, do absolutely nothing. Some of the provisions of the law are already passed, and they were not barred by Judge Bolton back in July. So that is option number one.
Option number two is going back to the appeals court and try to build up the case again. But ultimately, one of the strongest possibilities is that the case will end up at the Supreme Court.
At the center of this issue, this very controversial issue, is immigration policy. Is it the federal government's ultimate call, or is it the states? The federal government says it is a federal matter.
The states say, well, if it's a federal matter, then do what you are supposed to do. And that has been the fight for all these years. And let's remember that it's not only Arizona. There are more than 20 states that are considering or have already passed some sort of immigration law.
KAYE: Right. Yes, I mean, Governor Brewer has said that she is just frustrated and that's why she has been taking some of this action.
Tell me about some of the reporting at the border. What are we seeing in terms of the trend when it comes to illegal immigration?
ROMO: Well, interestingly enough, the number of arrests at the U.S./Mexico border has significantly decreased in the last five years. Let's take a look at some numbers.
For example, back in 2006, the number of arrests was just over a million people. Now, at the last fiscal year, 2010, it was just a little less than 450,000.
Randi, that's a 58 percent decrease. I was there at the border in February, and what they are telling me is that the number of agents has doubled back since 2004. The total number of agents was 11,000. Now it is more than 22,000, and so that, in addition to technology that has been brought to the border, talking everything from infrared cameras, to more communications technology for the agents there, has made a difference.
Also, the economy had the effect of discouraging a lot of people who would consider coming to the United States because, all of the sudden, many jobs that used to be available are not there anymore, and you have a situation where people who were illegally working in states like Arizona are going back to countries of origin, specifically Mexico. And also, this immigration bill had the effect of basically having people leave the state of Arizona and going back to Mexico, or to other states that are perceived as more friendly to immigrants.
KAYE: So, what are the feds doing about all of this?
ROMO: Well, tomorrow, President Obama is going to El Paso, and he is going to -- we don't know exactly what he is going to address, but it can be a number of issues. It could be border security. It could be the possibility of tackling immigration reform. Or a combination of both.
And if that's the case, then there's another window of opportunity to address this issue at the federal level, which is what a lot of people around the country want.
KAYE: Yes. And a lot of people I think have been waiting for that, because the president had said he was going to do that really in his first couple of years.
ROMO: Exactly.
KAYE: And he has been a little busy, so I guess he will get back to that tomorrow.
All right, Rafael. Thank you. Appreciate your insight.
Our "Sound Effect" is a star spangled mix of motherhood, Marines, and a marathon bike ride. After a yearlong tour of Afghanistan, Major Bill Conner is cycling 3,300 miles across America, raising money for the Semper Fi Fund that helps wounded vets.
Well, he made sure his route included Tulsa, Oklahoma, on Mother's Day. I don't have to tell you who was waiting for him in Tulsa.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY ANN CONNER, BILL CONNER'S MOTHER: Oh, my God, I'm so happy. Hurry up and get here!
I mean, I haven't seen him since December, 2009. And I just want to know what he looks like.
I couldn't wait! I haven't seen you! I love you!
MAJ. BILL CONNOR, MARINE CORPS: Hi mom.
M. CONNER: Oh, I love you so much. Oh, my God! I'm so happy.
Oh, just unbelievable. And my husband is in heaven looking down at all of this. And I can't describe it in words. I'm speechless, and I'm not a woman who is normally speechless.
B. CONNER: I didn't know she could run that fast.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: What a good son he is. Major Conner is almost halfway through his ride, which is scheduled to end in Ocean View, Delaware, on Memorial Day.
If you'd like to contribute, click on www.semperfifund.org.
(NEWSBREAK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: It is happening across the country. Students are arrested at school for non-criminal offenses. School discipline run amuck, or a crackdown aimed at protecting students?
Soledad O'Brien examines a highly-controversial trend.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tenth grader Messiah who asked that we not use his last name, was in science class at the High School of Art and Design in New York City when he says boredom led him to draw on his desk with a marker last month.
MESSIAH, STUDENT: I thought it was, like, no big deal. After I did it, I knew it was wrong.
O'BRIEN: His mom says her 15-year-old son is not a troublemaker. He was suspended. Three days later, while Messiah was taking a test, he was called to the principal's office.
MESSIAH: They arrested me and then searched through my pockets and stuff again. They made me take my book bag off and then handcuffed me. And when I got to the precinct, they handcuffed me to a bench for a couple of hours.
O'BRIEN: Non-criminal offenses like this being handed over to the police is the basis for a class action lawsuit filed last year.
DENNIS PARKER, ACLU: We want something saying that the policy of using too much force is unconstitutional.
O'BRIEN: It's not just New York. Across the nation, police presence in school is on the rise and students are more likely to be arrested at school.
RUSSLYN ALI, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, OFFICE OF CIVIL RIGHTS: Today this idea of cradle to prison is part of the American lexicon and we are seeing that play out in our schools.
O'BRIEN: And disproportionately affects minorities, which can have consequences.
PARKER: Particularly for African-American boys, that if they drop out of school, that there is a close to 66 percent likelihood that they will be in jail or prison by the time they're 35.
O'BRIEN: Schools say they're just trying to keep students safe.
(on camera): What's wrong with a zero tolerance policy?
PARKER: It imposes penalties in an unthinking way in which there's no discretion.
O'BRIEN (voice-over): In a joint statement, New York City's Police Department, Board of Education and Law Department said, "It's impossible to ignore the important balance -- protecting children while keeping order. They (school safety officers) have helped reduce the number of weapons brought into schools, reduced crime in schools, and, by extension, improve the learning environment."
Messiah's principal dropped the charges, but he still had to go to family court and complete community service.
MEREDITH, MESSIAH'S MOTHER: I feel like this is detrimental to my son's future. He hasn't even started a future yet.
O'BRIEN: Reporting for "In America," Soledad O'Brien, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE: CNN's Soledad O'Brien reports "don't fail me: Education in America." This CNN documentary examines the crisis in our public education system and why America's financial future is at risk if our students just can't excel in math and science. "don't fail me: Education in America," premiers Sunday night at 8:00 Eastern. You can only see it right here on CNN.
A stripper tax and legalized marijuana. Those are sexy campaign promises, but is that all former rapper Luther Campbell stands for in his run for Miami-Dade mayor? I'll ask him next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: Voters in the nation's eighth largest county are picking a new mayor this month. I'm talking about Miami-Dade County in south Florida.
The special election is on May 24th, but early voting actually starts today. The last mayor lost a recall vote earlier this year.
There is the usual cast of candidates looking to replace him -- former mayors, state lawmakers, a fire chief -- but there's also the guy who brought you this. Remember this from the late 1980s, 2 Live Crew and their controversial anthems? Their work was some of the first to carry a parental warning label.
But the man behind the group says it was just musical comedy. Luther Campbell is now 50 and one of the 11 candidates for Miami-Dade mayor.
Welcome to the show, Luther.
I have to ask you, how serious is this? Luther, can you hear me?
All right. We seem to be having a bit of a technical difficulty there with Mr. Campbell.
Luther, I'll give you one more chance here. Do you hear me?
All right. We're going to get that audio fixed, and we'll take a break right here and we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: Well, before the break we were telling you about the race for mayor in Miami-Dade. That's in southern Florida. There are 11 candidates, including Luther Campbell, the former front man for 2 Live Crew. He's now 50, and he is running for mayor.
Luther, welcome to the show. I have to ask you, how serious is this? What made you get into this race?
LUTHER CAMPBELL, RUNNING FOR MAYOR IN MIAMI-DADE: I'm dead serious. I mean, that is my campaign slogan. I mean, the reason why I'm getting into this race is because, I mean, Dade County politics is banana Republican. And when I look at the other 11 candidates -- 10 candidate -- I see that I need to be the person to run for mayor to represent my city. KAYE: I love that, the politics is banana Republican. But listen, you know, let's be serious here. You've raised less than $10,000, while opponents are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars range. Is name recognition going to be enough for you to compete, do you think?
CAMPBELL: Yes, no doubt. I mean, name recognition and then things that I have done in my community for over 30 years.
I have programs like Liberty City Optimist programs, and I have helped senior programs, build buildings, actually construct buildings on different locations whether it's Overtown or Liberty City. And, you know, name recognition goes a long way. The other candidates have to spend a lot of money selling people on the idea that they are the best guy for the job, but I actually did the work in my community over the years.
KAYE: Everyone talks about your proposed tax on adult entertainers, so certainly I have to ask you about that. You also want to decriminalize small amounts of marijuana.
What are some of the other big issues that you are hoping to have an impact with?
CAMPBELL: Well, some of the main issues, I mean, like, we have a public hospital here, Jackson Hospital, that they are trying to privatize and they're trying to sell. If it's left up to the current government, they will do that, and a lot of people will be left out on the street with no health care.
And at the same time, the federal government has taken over the Housing Department here in our county, they have taken over the Transit Department, who is missing over $180 million. And like I say, when I look at the different guys that I'm running against, they look like the same type of people that are going to continue the status quo.
KAYE: And I also want to ask you about the column that you write in the "Miami New Times" newspaper. I mean, they even paid your filing fee. You're chronicling the campaign in your column.
Do you think maybe this might look like a publicity stunt?
CAMPBELL: Well, they didn't actually pay for my filing fee. I don't know, that was a running rumor. Me and my wife actually wrote the check for the filing fee.
KAYE: All right. Well, I'm glad you cleared that up then.
CAMPBELL: Yes. It's not a publicity stunt under no circumstances.
I mean, people who know me, you know, they know I have been working very hard in my community throughout the years. I mean, I have been working with people like Kendrick Meek, Oscar Brown Jr. (ph), Hank Harper, our state representative out of West Palm Beach. And I have been working with these individual politicians for over 10 years about different things that definitely affect our community. And it is now time for me to get off the sidelines and step into the game and help my people.
KAYE: And what about your time at 2 Live Crew? I mean, you say it's behind you, as are the strip clubs, but you still sell those pretty raunchy videos on the Web site of yours. How do you justify that while saying that you have also moved on and now want to be mayor?
CAMPBELL: Well, you know, I don't own any Web sites right now that have raunchy videos. All that product was sold from me, and that is owned by Little Joe Records.
So, you know, I'm 50 years old right now. You know, I had my time and I had my days of having fun as a youngster, and as a rapper. But at the same time, I'm a freedom fighter.
You know, I fought for the First Amendment and went all the way to the Supreme Court. So people know me as that. They know me as a fighter. So this doesn't surprise the masses of amount of people that I would be going into politics, knowing that going to the Supreme Court is a political issue in itself.
KAYE: All right. Luther Campbell, really appreciate your time. And it's a very interesting race that we will continue to watch as well.
Thank you.
CAMPBELL: Thank you for having me.
KAYE: Thank you.
Severe weather expert Chad Myers joins us next to break down what we need to know about the historic floods that are rolling through the south. So keep it here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: Floods are still a major threat in many parts of the South despite efforts to try and control them all.
Chad Myers is here to tell us exactly what is go on.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It's what the Army Corps does.
KAYE: Yes.
MYERS: The Army Corps, they --
KAYE: It's what they know.
MYERS: -- are engineers. You know, I know it says "Army," but they know what they are doing, trying to alleviate flooding, trying to stop levees from breaking, trying to stop floodwalls from being overtop.
They have to release this water, and that's why all these little dams are in all these small towns. And in Nebraska, we have all these little sort of farm ponds. They stop the water every once in a while from rushing and just making a big water surge. And one of the things they did today, this morning, opened up a spillway. Here is New Orleans. I'll draw it for you right here. Here's part of the town that flooded in Katrina, clearly.
This is a spillway. The river comes down through here. There's the river, and it goes down, eventually out toward the Gulf of Mexico.
Right through here, they opened this up. This is a picture from when they did it back in April of 2008.
All of this mud comes down, and it goes into Lake Pontchartrain. There they are in Norco, Louisiana. There they are opening those gates. It was leaking anyway, but they are opening the gates one at a time today to let that water Rush into Lake Pontchartrain.
And you think that's a great thing. It is a great thing for New Orleans. It's not such a great thing for Lake Pontchartrain.
KAYE: No.
MYERS: Let's go back to this map here, and I'm going to take you to this mud line.
You see this mud line? That's the water that came out of the Mississippi River back in 2008. This is what it's going to look like in a couple of days in Lake Pontchartrain. This is mud and muck and silt and oil and sewage and --
KAYE: Can it hold that?
MYERS: What?
KAYE: Can it hold all that?
MYERS: It can hold it. It goes out the other side and goes back into the Gulf of Mexico a different way.
KAYE: OK.
MYERS: But now you are just flooding this beautiful lake with stuff, with pesticides and -- ugh! You just never want to have to do this. This is almost last resort. But it's not the last the resort.
In fact, here's another last resort that they're going to try, at least Governor Jindal was talking about it, and so was the Army Corps. Again, we'll draw you the river.
It goes all the way down here, and eventually down to the Gulf of Mexico. And New Orleans being right there.
Father to the north, there's the Morganza Spillway. They're going to let some water into this and let it flow down into the bayou, down to the south there. But that will also cause more flooding for people that live here.
So this is all trying to not get New Orleans overtop. There is the potential that we could -- if we don't open any of this stuff up, New Orleans could be one half of a foot from the top of the levee, six inches.
KAYE: That would be awful.
MYERS: You know when you go down to Jackson Square, you climb up that big hill?
KAYE: Yes.
MYERS: That big hill is what's going to hold back all the water.
KAYE: Let's hope so.
MYERS: Here's the good news though for Memphis.
This is Memphis, Tennessee. It's a raw little -- not very pretty graphic, but this is 48 feet. And for the next 24 to 48, almost 72 hours, water is not coming down very much. But at least it's at the top now and it's going down.
It may go up another three or four inches in the next couple of days, but that's it. There will be no more crests. There won't be some big surge coming down. Memphis is -- what you see is what you get, basically, in Memphis, as long as all the levees hold. And isn't that the big story?
KAYE: That certainly is. It has always been the big story.
All right, Chad. Thank you.
MYERS: You're welcome.
KAYE: Well, when the Army Corps of Engineers flooded parts of Missouri to save other communities, as Chad was just talking about, it was Major General Michael Walsh who made the call.
CNN's David Mattingly has his story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Levees blown up, flooding 130,000 acres of rich Missouri farmland. And this is the man who gave the order. But Army Corps of Engineers Major General Michael Walsh now finds his decision questioned and misunderstood.
(on camera): In a sense, are you playing God here, deciding who gets flooded and who doesn't?
MAJ. GEN. MICHAEL WALSH, U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS: No, I don't believe that's the case.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Walsh's order to blow the levees did prevent record floodwaters from overtopping levees at Cairo, Illinois, but now we find that was just the beginning. (on camera): Walsh tells there was so much more at stake. Eighty miles of shoreline along western Kentucky, on the Ohio River, 120 miles from Commerce, Missouri, down to Tennessee to Helena, Arkansas. These are all areas with levees that could have been overtopped by the rising river Walsh says if he hadn't acted. And when the time came, after consulting with scores of engineers and experts, it was his decision to make and make alone.
So, you're it? You are the top of the chain of command. You didn't have to kick this up to the White House or anybody like this, to say, "Hey, we're going to flood a significant portion of Missouri"?
MAJ. GEN. MICHAEL WALSH, U.S. ARMY CORP OF ENGINEERS: Well, certainly, we keep the vertical chain in alignment and informed on what decisions I make, but the decision in accordance with the program is for the president of the Mississippi River Commission.
MATTINGLY: Ad that's you?
WALSH: And that's me.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): And there wasn't much time. Just eight days from an alarming forecast to Walsh's worst fears coming true.
(on camera): How did this affect you personally?
WALSH: Well, certainly, I know the -- many of the people who own land there, and been to their house, and I know them personally. And I was talking with them, and they understood the difficulty of the decision that had to be made.
MATTINGLY: Was the right decision made? And would you make it again?
WALSH: Well, that's a good question. And, frankly, we haven't had the time to go back and look at it.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): That's because huge decisions and their human consequences are now looming in Louisiana where another floodway could soon be opened, flooding communities for miles.
David Mattingly, CNN, Memphis.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Did Pakistan know the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden? An angry prime minister responds to the controversial question and others in the aftermath of bin Laden's death. That's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: The Obama administration is said to be intensifying pressure on Pakistan in the aftermath of the killing of Osama bin Laden. Officials are demanding to know what if, if anything, the Pakistani government knew about the location of bin Laden's hideout and if he was getting assistance from the Pakistan's officials. Well, today the Pakistan's prime minister lashed out at U.S. allegations of complicity or incompetence, calling them absurd.
Joining me now with his take on all of this is Michael Holmes.
A lot of harsh words --
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Oh, yes.
KAYE: -- being thrown around out there. What is happening out there of the relationship between Pakistan and the United States?
HOLMES: Well, it adds a lot of pressure to what was already a pretty fragile relationship. And let's remember, both sides can go tit-for- tat on this. The U.S. gives billions of dollars to Pakistan. Pakistan knows it can make things difficult for the U.S. to fight terror in the region. And there's strong suspicion already that the CIA station chief there was leaked to the local media by Pakistani security sources. That's just one example of what can go wrong.
KAYE: So, when you look at the response -- I mean, clearly, there's been now the sort of war of words that has followed in the wake of his killing. Is this government policy or what's going to happen next?
HOLMES: What you have got is a mixture of embarrassment and anger. Embarrassment that Osama was found in their backyard, some anger at the U.S. for barreling in across borders to get him, and also those claims that bin Laden was somehow being protected. Now, regarding those suspicions, I think rather than policy -- and certainly not official policy -- and if it happened, it's more likely that it was just individuals within the government, within the security services who have sympathies.
You know, overall, you can't forget that Pakistan is hurting in all of this, too. It has lost more soldiers fighting militants on their turf than NATO has in Afghanistan total. They have caught a lot of terrorists as well. U.S. drone attacks have seen the terrorists striking back on Pakistani soil. It's increased a lot of resentment, internally at the U.S.
So, they've got a lot at stake as well here.
KAYE: There's also the conversation happening now in light of this and all that's happened about whether or not we should pull out of Afghanistan, whether or not we should withdraw, and also a lot of talk of -- is this the death of al Qaeda? So, when we talk about Afghanistan -- is al Qaeda alive and well in Afghanistan?
HOLMES: It was always a bit of a misnomer, actually, that there were a lot of al Qaeda members in Afghanistan. There are very few. The CIA thinks no more than just a few dozen at a time at most. But their influence is there, their support for the Taliban. Of course, you got the situation where the fighters can go back and forth across the border from Afghanistan into Pakistan's tribal areas for sanctuary.
And let's remember, as we've said before, al Qaeda is a franchise. It's an ideology -- which makes it so hard to fight as an entity. It's got arms in all sorts of countries, Indonesia, Africa and even Western Europe, for example. Germany is one.
KAYE: Does it seem to you that Pakistan is a little bit obsessed with Afghanistan?
HOLMES: Well, you know, and it's really got a right to, too. It is on its border, right? So, its next-door neighbor is going -- if it becomes a failing, failed or even unstable sort of nation next door, that's going to return Afghanistan potentially back to what it was pre-9/11. And it's right next to a nuclear-armed Pakistan.
That's not something that excite anyone in the West, and certainly not in Pakistan, especially since al Qaeda and Taliban-linked group are well-established inside Pakistan, as we would, and would love to set up precisely the same sort of system we saw in Afghanistan pre-9/11, except they have nuclear weapons.
KAYE: Yes. And what about the Taliban -- just going back to the Taliban for a second -- what about their annual spring festival now underway --
HOLMES: Yes, kicking off.
KAYE: -- in Afghanistan?
HOLMES: Yes. It is. It's kicking off at the moment, and not just in the south, that's where we've seen the attacks over the weekend. The south, the birthplace of the Taliban -- Kandahar in particular.
Now, you got to remember that what this is going to illustrate, too, is the battle between the people and the Taliban. You know, this is an area where the surge, which, remember, put a lid on the Taliban in the south, and it was like squeezing a balloon and popped up elsewhere. The difficulty in Kandahar is that it's really representing what the locals are saying.
And I was there a year ago, and they were telling me the same thing. They don't like the Taliban. They don't like how life was under them. But they've got now, what, a corrupt top-to-bottom government. They don't like the alternative. They don't like what's there at the moment.
So, it's the lesser of the two evils. You got the locals supporting the Taliban, you got problems.
KAYE: It's still a mess.
HOLMES: Very much.
KAYE: No matter how you look at it.
HOLMES: Yes.
KAYE: All right. Michael Holmes, great to have you back on the show.
HOLMES: Good to see you, Randi.
KAYE: It's been a while, but thank you.
The baby boomers, well, they're not getting younger. We talk about the "R" word -- that is next, in two minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: Updating our top story.
We are getting word out of Phoenix that Arizona Governor Jan Brewer plans to take her immigration fight to the highest court in the land. According to the AZCentral.com, Brewer says -- and I'm quoting here -- "We need to get this up to the Supreme Court and get this injunction lifted as soon as possible." She is referring to two lower court rulings that have blocked a measure she signed over a year ago giving the local police the power to stop and apprehend people that they reasonably suspect of being illegal immigrants.
Washington insists immigration is a federal matter, not for individual states to act on as they wish.
As part of CNN's special coverage, we are focusing on the baby boomers. The first wave of baby boomers turns 65 this year, which means many are on the verge of retirement. And because of the sheer numbers, the boomer generation is forcing to redefine the way that we think about retiring and aging.
By 2050, the number of Americans, 65 and older, will reach 88.5 million. That's more than double that age groups population now.
The explosion of aging baby bombers has troubling implications for Social Security and Medicare. So, how they retire will impact generations to come.
John Zarrella shows us the different realities of retirement.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Some people say that this place is right out of "Avatar."
Whatever it reminds of, so long as you love it, George Fernandez is happy.
GEORGE FERNANDEZ, CO-FOUNDE, KEY WEST CONSERVATORY: This is a unique experience. It is called the Key West Butterfly and Nature Conservatory. We opened in 2003.
ZARRELLA: Fernandez says 60 species of butterflies and 29 species of birds call this habitat home.
And like the birds and the butterflies, this place is flying high. Thousands of visitors come here every year. George could retire tomorrow if he chose.
FERNANDEZ: I have no dream of ever retiring. I will be here for as long as I can.
ZARRELLA: Carol Tedesco is a freelance photographer, writer and expert on shipwrecked recovered treasure coins. Retirement?
CAROL TEDESCO, PHOTOGRAPHER AND RESEARCHER/WRITER: I love my life. I make enough money for the life that I have, but I don't have a retirement.
ZARRELLA: Tedesco and Fernandez are baby boomers, both moved to Key West many years back. And neither has children, and both have a passion for what they do, drive, and 24/7 work ethic.
FERNANDEZ: The atlas moth is very unique. It lives only four or five days -- a very, very short life cycle.
TEDESCO: You take a blank of silver, heat it, put it between the dyes,
ZARRELLA (voice-over): What's that?
TEDESCO: And hit it with a hammer --
ZARRELLA: Really?
TEDESCO: -- just like that.
ZARRELLA (voice-over): But both of them are also very different. Twenty years ago, George and his partner started with one gallery, and then, another, the conservatory was a dream.
FERNANDEZ: We went to the bank and they said, you are going to build a what and you want to borrow how much?
ZARRELLA: Now, that dream has given George financial security, a second home in North Carolina and no worries about money.
FERNANDEZ: In the course of eight years, we have found that this is an incredible rewarding financially, spiritually, emotionally. I wouldn't trade it for the world.
ZARRELLA: Carol hasn't parlayed her passion into riches, not yet anyway.
TEDESCO: Whenever I have gotten a little traction financially and put some money away or, you know, had an IRA, either setbacks in life have caused me to dip back into it, or sometimes investing into a business, I dip into it. So, am I a great financial planner? No.
ZARRELLA (on camera): Do you worry about the growing old part and not having security?
TEDESCO: Well, I have spent some time in Latin America, and a Social Security check can go a long way there.
ZARRELLA (voice-over): Both Carol and George say being baby boomers instilled in them is a strong work ethic and that, too, can go a long way.
John Zarrella, CNN, Key West.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE: Deciding who can fly -- even when the passengers are screened, should a pilot be able to kick them off of his airplane? Well, it happened to two Muslim men. Our "Stream Team" tackles that question, next.
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RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Kicked off of a plane for no known reason. Two Muslim imams are now considering suing over an incident last Friday.
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KAYE (voice-over): The two were taken off on an Atlantic Southeast Airlines airplane by the pilot before it left the Memphis airport.
ASA operates Delta Connection flights. Ironically, the imams were flying to a conference in North Carolina on Islamophobia. This is the video of them arriving in Charlotte. They were rescreened in the airport in Memphis, but the plane still took off without them.
Originally, the imams said that they weren't given a reason, but he is what their attorney is saying now.
MO IDLIBI, ATTORNEY FOR IMAMS: The only reason that the pilot has cited is that some of the passengers didn't feel comfortable, but when the passengers were asked whether anybody felt uncomfortable, none of them indicated that they were.
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KAYE: And here's the statement from Atlantic Southeast Airlines, compensation and re-accommodation on the next available flight were immediately offered to the passengers and the passenger's travel companion. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience that this may have caused.
So we want to pose the question about this to our stream team, should pilots be able to kick screened passengers off the planes? Mary Schiavo is a former inspector general of U.S. Department of Transportation. Now an attorney focusing on airline cases, and Tim Wise is an author and noted anti-racism essayist, and Jim Tilmon, a former commercial airlines pilot.
Mary, I want to start with you. Do you think the pilot did the right thing in this case given the circumstances?
MARY SCHIAVO, AVIATION ATTORNEY: Given the circumstances, we don't know all the facts. The pilot has to have ability to remove people from the plane. The evidence from September 11th taught us that, and that several people on September 11th have hunches and they didn't act on them.
Yes, the hunches can be wrong, but they must have that authority and they have that authority by law and they must use it wisely.
KAYE: And Tim, I'm curious where you stand on this?
TIM WISE, ANTI-RACIST ESSAYIST: Well, I mean, a pilot might have the right to remove a passenger if the passenger is engaged in behaviour, which makes them suspicious, but the only thing that these two did as far as anyone has said is be Muslim and dress in a particular way that made the pilot nervous.
Let's remember, that the hijackers on September 11th didn't dress that way, and in fact, they dressed like computer programmers on the way to work on casual Friday. So if we were going to use that as a legitimate profile we should kick off all Muslims dressed in Dockers and Loafers wearing Izod, which I hope we're not going to do.
I mean, this is a situation where the pilot had no apparent rational reason for his action and at some point we have to call him and others like him on that kind of bias. It is not acceptable.
KAYE: Jim, I want to ask you as a former pilot, would you have refused to fly in this type of case?
JIM TILMON, FORMER COMMERCIAL PILOT: Well, I think that the whole issue is kind of ludicrous. The very idea that the pilot felt that he had the authority to make decisions based upon the way people were dressed is absolutely absurd.
I mean, his authority does not take him into the fashion police. It is not his decision to make his job inside that cockpit, which has a door, which is locked and cannot be gone through without proper authority.
I don't think that it is up to anybody except for the Transportation Security Administration as to whether or not a passenger should be allowed on the airplane unless there is some behavioral situation that causes the pilot to feel concerned about the safety of flight.
Otherwise, you know, I don't care whether the guy does not like Muslims or his political -- it does not make any difference. He's a driver. He gets in that cockpit and he flies from point A to B, and whatever is behind the cockpit door is what he takes off and lands with.
KAYE: Mary, you want to weigh in here?
SCHIAVO: Yes, and we are not taking into consideration what happened this weekend. We had a Delta Flight with a bomb note on it and we had a Yemen man trying to break into the American Airlines cockpit. We had a Continental Flight with someone trying to open the exit door and we had Amtrax with a "don't ride" list.
And we had people trying to go through Denver security. It was a weekend of nerves and I think that the pilot was also reacting to all of the events on the weekend. So it wasn't an isolated situation and we don't know all of the facts as to why this pilot thought that this was a danger.
KAYE: I want to just read what the FAA regulation actually says. It says the pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for and has the final authority as to the operation of that aircraft. So, doesn't that blanket rule cover situations like this, Tim?
WISE: Well, it may very well cover situations like this, but at some point, we have to remember that if we are going to allow pilots to make these kinds of decisions based on whatever else is going on in the culture and the society.
We would also have to say that it is OK for doctors to refuse to operate on gay patients because they might have AIDS or teachers not to teach in classrooms where there are black kids because they might be gang members.
I mean, at some point we have to act like adults and grow up and use our judgment or else we should probably find another job because the job of a pilot requires good judgment and this is not very good judgment.
Who would honestly believe that terrorists were going to hijack a regional jet from Memphis to Charlotte? It boggles the imagination, and again, as the pilot mentioned here on the show, you know, that pilot is secured in that cockpit and the TSA has done its job presumably it is ridiculous.
KAYE: Let me bring in Jim Tilmon, our former pilot back in because, Jim, you've said you would fly a Klan member across the country if he had a ticket and he had cleared security.
These guys had cleared security twice in the end. Certainly the first time and then they were taken off of the flight. But what do you say about the FAA ruling for the pilot and the regulation? I mean, is it a blanket rule that they can do whatever they want?
TILMON: No. No, pilots don't have the authority to make these kinds of decisions except when they have evidence that will support it. And from what I understand this -- and you are right, Mary, I don't know all that was there and I don't know, but I will tell you had I been there and had I been the captain I would not have allowed this kind of thing to take place.
Look, you are looking at the guy who was one of the first few three or four or five black people that flew for commercial airliner in this country. And during those years in the '60s when it was very, very tense with racial problems and all that sort of thing, suppose I had decided I did not like that passenger because they had a confederate flag in their pocket.
I mean, I don't care what he's got in his pocket, if he got that ticket and a boarding pass in his pocket, sit down and have a nice flight. KAYE: All right, listen, we have just 30 seconds left, Mary, I want to give you the last word here. Do you think that we would have seen this happen if we didn't have the killing of Bin Laden?
SCHIAVO: No, I think like I said, it was the weekend off nerves and with five different flights having incidents there on, people were on alert. There had been new concerns and warnings issued, and I think everybody was jumpy.
The facts will sort themselves out. The airlines addressed the issue with these two passengers and I think we need to wait for the facts and let's hope that everyone is home and we can have better flying weather ahead.
KAYE: All right, thank you, all. It was such an interesting discussion and such an important discussion to have Mary, Tim and Jim. Thank you, all.
Time now for a CNN Political update. We want to talk for a moment about the impact the killing of Osama Bin Laden may have on the 2012 presidential race. We saw on the blogs and on Twitter people saying the election is over now.
Well, here is what President Obama said on CBS' "60 Minutes" last night about his involvement in the operation.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How actively were you involved in that process?
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: About as active as any project that I have been involved with since I have been president.
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KAYE: So, let's bring in CNN senior political analyst Gloria Borger now. Gloria, the White House is making sure the message of the president's role gets out, why?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. Well, it is very important because Republicans have been using the issue of competency against Barack Obama. Some have been calling him weak on terrorism, and so this clearly fights against that narrative.
What is really interesting though is when you look at the way Barack Obama has gone up in the polls. The average is about six points or so, and in talking to some Republicans they say that what that really shows is that there is a group of people out there.
As if we didn't already know this, there is a group of people out there who are not going to give Barack Obama credit no matter what he does.
KAYE: All right. Gloria, appreciate it. It is going to be very interesting to watch how all of this is going to play out. BORGER: Thank you.
KAYE: Thank you.
Well, I opted for the dreaded pat-down at the airport last night. I really didn't have a choice. It was a very long line, but what I learned is next in my "XYZ."
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KAYE: Time now for my "XYZ." Today, it is personal. I was flying back to Atlanta last night and for the first time I decided to avoid those so-called back scatter machines at the airport, you know, the body scanners.
The line was pretty long so I opted for the dreaded pat-down. Well, it was rather invasive, but that wasn't the worst part about this whole experience. It was the inconsistency in our airport security that was exposed.
You see there was a family in front of me with four children too young to go through the body scanner machine so the TSA told their dad to take them through the regular x-ray machine, the one that we typically use, but it's no longer the TSA's first choice at least at that airport in Fort Lauderdale.
So I asked the TSA if I had that option too? Could I also skip the body scanner? I was told no, that a pat-down was my only alternative to the body scanner that made no sense to me. The guy with his four kids walked right through the regular x-ray machine and went on his way, no pat-down for him.
I asked the TSA if I could avoid the pat-down and the body scanner if I had also been travelling with children. They said and I quote here, "yes," and that is not the official line from the TSA.
That's from these two guys at the airport. So to be clear, this guy was subjected to less intense screening because he had children. Does the TSA think that people with children do not want to do us any harm? Apparently, at least right with the guy in front of me, that is apparently true.
CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Brooke Baldwin. Hi, there, Brooke.
