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Brewer's Incredible Double Play; Tweeting for Beer; SEALs Braced for Larger Fight; U.S. Will Question Bin Laden Wives; New Intelligence from Bin Laden Raid; Intel Disclosures Anger Rumsfeld; If Bin Laden Survived the Raid; Mississippi River Cresting in Memphis; Long Island Serial Killer Investigation; Fire Threatens New Mexico Town; Schwarzenegger and Shriver Separated; Franken Questions Smartphone Privacy; Whitney Houston Back to Rehab

Aired May 10, 2011 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, fascinating new details in the Osama Bin Laden story. It's 10:00 a.m. on the East Coast, 7:00 a.m. out West. I'm Carol Costello sitting in for Kyra Phillips.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO (voice-over): U.S. Navy SEALs who carried out that raid on the Bin Laden compound were braced for a possible fight with Pakistani police or the Pakistani military. Two U.S. officials tell us they were authorized to use whatever fire power they had available to get out of Pakistan.

And Pakistan may soon allow the United States to question the Bin Laden wives who were at the compound. All three were taken into custody after the raid. A U.S. official says the initial review of confiscated intelligence shows mostly aspirational planning rather than concrete details.

In the meantime, former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is criticizing the White House for saying too much.

DONALD RUMSFELD, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: The goal is to get the intelligence and to look at it, figure out what you can use and then use it as rapidly as possible.

Instead, the White House has made a number of comments about it, talking about how valuable it was, and even some of the specifics of what's there, which I think no one in the Pentagon would have done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Ed Henry is live at the White House. So, Ed, is the White House responding to Mr. Rumsfeld?

ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You know, they're not directly responding, but they've been saying in recent days that people are nit-picking the details of this whole story. But the bottom line is that all they've shared is the broad brush of this story to try to get some information out to the American people about what was a pretty big deal as we can all acknowledge, which was killing Osama Bin Laden.

And then following on that, the administration has laid out the broad brush on what kind of intelligence was gleaned at the Bin Laden compound, but as you know, there has not been a lot of detail about that intelligence.

They're obviously being careful to make sure they don't give al Qaeda some sort of advantage with what we know. They have spilled out some details such as the fact that they gleaned some intelligence suggesting that maybe al Qaeda wanted to strike American rails, for example.

The White House says they put that information out so that people were on the alert. They knew what might be happening out of an abundance of caution, Carol.

COSTELLO: The other question I have is, you know, just how much political gamesmanship is at play here because Liz Cheney, Dick Cheney's daughter was on Fox News. She said exactly the same thing as Mr. Rumsfeld did. So are these criticisms coming from the right place?

HENRY: What is going on, you're right, we need to at least point out, is that there's some history here. The Bush administration obviously believes, you know, the former officials from that administration, they had a much different approach to the war on terror.

You had Secretary Rumsfeld on the weekend on a Sunday show. I think it was CBS saying that while he congratulated President Obama for carrying out this mission to kill Osama Bin Laden, he said there was a grave mistake to end those enhanced interrogation tactics that the Bush administration used.

And basically both Secretary Rumsfeld and former Vice President Cheney said that this was making the country less safe. So we have to point out, there are some history here and so these statements are not being made in a vacuum.

COSTELLO: Ed Henry live at the White House, thank you.

Also today, new details on an intriguing scenario, what if Bin Laden had been captured alive? CNN'S Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon.

And Barbara, you've learned the Obama administration had actually assembled a small army of experts to deal with, you know, in the case of Osama Bin Laden being taken alive. Tell us about it.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Carol, they do plan for everything. It was unlikely. Nobody expected Bin Laden to put up his hands and surrender, but what if he did? Well, the administration plan was to actually fly Bin Laden exactly to where they flew him dead. That was out to the "USS Carl Vinson," a Navy aircraft carrier in the North Arabian Sea off the coast of Pakistan.

There would have been an army of legal experts, interrogators, translators, even medical people standing by, ready to go to the "Carl Vinson" and deal with the Bin Laden situation. These are kinds of people that are already working in Afghanistan.

They probably didn't even know that Bin Laden would have been their likely customer, if you will. But the major concern would have been, we are told, to put Bin Laden right into a legal framework that would have stood up if he had been charged or if he'd ever gone to trial.

They wanted to get him right into a legal setting, if you will with a very clear understanding of how to move ahead with him. They didn't want any case thrown out of court. Of course, he was killed.

We have also learned today that the military had significant fire power, as you said, ready to go if they need it. A U.S. official telling us no fire power option was off the table, that being if the Pakistani military had somehow come into the compound area, if they had responded to the U.S. being there, the Pakistanis did not respond.

The fire power wasn't needed. The one helicopter that came in to rescue the additional SEALs that were on the ground when their helicopter crashed, that was actually a helicopter on standby with a full medical team.

They came in very quickly once the helicopter crashed to pick up the SEALs that were there, but they had medical personnel on board actually if the SEALs had gotten into a fire fight and been wounded, but of course, they weren't. Carol --

COSTELLO: More fascinating details coming out about this, just amazing. Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thank you.

Let's see how the news about Bin Laden is playing out in the international media. For that as always, we head to London and Zain Verjee. Hi, Zain.

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hi, Carol. The U.S.- Pakistan relationship under the spotlight still. Take a look at "The Age" in Australia. This is the headline, U.S.-Pakistani Alliance at Risk of Rupturing." It says the U.S.-Pakistani relationship is now at risk of terminal rupture. This should not worry not only the United States and Pakistan, but the entire international community."

The "Wall Street Journal" Asia has this headline. "Pakistan's Premier is Defiant over Bin Laden Raid." It says, the Bin Laden raid and its fallout are threatening to accelerate the deterioration of relations between U.S. and Pakistan.

And then "The Toronto Sun" in Canada says, "Pitch Pakistan to the Curve." They take a pretty tough view. It says, "is it any wonder the U.S. decided not to share details of the raid in advance with Pakistan? Trust is a two-way street it says, with Pakistan, however, it is a dead end. The time is now to close it off." Carol --

COSTELLO: Zain Verjee, interesting as always. Thank you. Zain live in London.

Libya's capital last night and today undergoing some of the heaviest bombing we have seen in weeks. NATO air strikes demolished parts of at least two government buildings in Tripoli.

Libyan officials showed reporters the damage inside of one building that they claim is being used by parliament. These fresh attacks came a just a few hours after NATO's chief warned the time is running out for Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO (voice-over): Back here in the United States, the Mississippi River is cresting in Memphis. It is expected to rise 14 feet above flood stage. The city has not seen the Mississippi this mighty since 1937. The river is now three miles wide. Big question, can the levees handle all the pressure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Rob Marciano is in Memphis. Rob, so far so good?

ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, you know, there have been some weaknesses. There have been some spots along the river, especially upstream where the Army Corps of Engineers had to plug some holes, so to speak, but so far so good.

What's not good is the whiff of this river right now here in Memphis, which is typically half mile wide. Today, where I stand, it's three miles in width. But where I stand, you know, is not on the river banks really, it's on riverside drive, which you know admittedly is a road on the river, but it shouldn't be in the river.

That's where it is right now. It backs up to Beale Street. The western edge of that famed boulevard all the way down to the river, that is under water as well. The music establishments a little further up the road are OK. Graceland is OK.

But surrounding areas in Memphis, the suburbs not so good and those tributaries that are feeding into the Mississippi are not allowing to drain. That's been the ongoing issue.

You know what? We're cresting right now. The river hasn't really gone down at all since we've been here. So it's going to be a very, very slow crest.

We've spoken with an Army Corp of Engineer Colonel Reichling. He's in charge down here in Memphis and here's the advice he had for folks who live in Memphis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCIANO: There's been so much pressure for such an extended period of time that we've never seen on these levees. Have you seen weaknesses?

VERNIE REICHLING, ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEER: Yes, we have, but they're all controllable. There have been no uncontrollable weaknesses. What we've seen is under seepage in Cairo, Illinois, in Hickmin, Kentucky and now down here in Memphis, we have some areas where we've seen seepage, but we flood fight it and it's doing well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARCIANO: So fairly high confidence there. As you know, we opened up spillways explosively upriver. One mechanically down river, maybe another in Louisiana. That doesn't really help what's going on here.

Carol, it's going to take a full five days for this part of the river to go down just one foot. Excruciatingly slow fall of this river in the coming days and weeks and the cleanup, believe me, is going to be a mess.

COSTELLO: I know. I feel for the people in Memphis. Thank you so much. Rob Marciano reporting live.

After 25 years of marriage, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver have separated. We have more details right after the break.

Also ahead, we're live on Capitol Hill where Apple and Google executives hope to reassure senators they take your privacy very seriously. Smartphones in the spotlight next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO (voice-over): Checking on stories across the country. Police on Long Island, New York, say four recently discovered sets of human remains do not appear to be related to the bodies of four prostitutes discovered nearby.

Those earlier remains had been linked to a suspected serial killer. Police say the evidence suggests that two more killers may have dumped bodies near the beach.

A massive wildfire in New Mexico has forced residents of the town of Mayhill to evacuate. It's already charred 2,000 acres.

And this is out of California, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver have separated. Two weeks after the couple's 25th anniversary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: At the bottom of the hour, we'll talk to Kennedy biographer Lawrence Lemur about the split.

News that iPhones track and store their user's locations certainly grabbed headlines last month, but also grabbed the attention of the brand new Senate Subcommittee on Privacy Technology and the Law.

Kate Bolduan joins us now from Capitol Hill. So, Kate, the big issue seems to be - I guess you can opt out of being tracked, but how realistic is that and what do Apple and Google execs have to say about the data collection?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's a big question. Those are the exact questions that they're trying to kind of shed some light on, shine the spotlight on today, privacy issues as relates to the internet and specifically here, mobile devices.

When you think of the vast amount of information that these devices collect about users and especially, as you noted, in light of the uproot that was caused when it was noted that some Apple devices were collecting time stamped tracking locations of users without their knowledge.

The chairman of this committee and the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, they are here today and they really want to ask some tough questions and shed some light on where federal regulation is working and if it is working or if it's just kind of knot cutting it at this point.

As Chairman Leahy said, digital age can do wonderful things for us, but it can also bring some dangers. That's what they're trying to figure out today. They are asking the question is federal regulation cutting it at this point or is the technology surpassing what we have in place in terms of protecting consumers as their privacy and all this information is out there.

And to do that, they're putting on the hot seat two executives, an Apple executive and a Google executive today, the Apple's Vice President of Software Technology Guy Tribble and Google's Director of Public Policy for the U.S., Carol, Allan Davidson.

This will be the first time they'll be speaking publicly after the privacy concerns came to light last month. So very tough questions, but also a very difficult issue to tackle as you can imagine. Where the government should and should not step in as it relates to the internet and privacy issues relating to it. Carol --

COSTELLO: Kate, just in looking at those lawmakers, they're older people. Younger people have a far different view of these kinds of things though, don't they? So they may not care about an invasion of privacy at all.

BOLDUAN: They might not. It does seem there is a bit of a generational switch or generational trend that younger users are more comfortable. Regardless of age though, these lawmakers say it's their duty to figure if -- what information is getting out there.

And they say consumers regardless if they're putting it out there should know about it. That's where this opt in-opt out issue is. There are several pieces of legislation actually in the works. This committee is looking at the issue.

Just making sure consumers know what information is being collected, that it is being collected and ultimately what it could be used for and who has access to it. That's where lawmakers are focusing on today, not that you shouldn't have information out there, it's that you should know if it is and what it's being used for, Carol.

COSTELLO: Got you, Kate Bolduan live on Capitol Hill. Thank you.

A different kind of technology now. A new study has found kids taken to the hospital with head trauma may not need a CT scan for diagnosis. Researchers say a doctor just observing the child for awhile can help determine how serious that bump to the head actually is.

A.J. is coming up with showbiz news including details on Whitney Houston's return to rehab. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Whitney Houston is still fighting her demons. "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" host A.J. Hammer is here with all the entertainment headlines. I guess, we should have expected this in a way, but it's still so sad.

A.J. HAMMER, HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Yes, it's always sad when you hear this news. It's another trip to rehab for Whitney Houston. Here's what Houston's rep is telling "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT."

Whitney Houston is currently in an outpatient rehab program for drug and alcohol treatment. Whitney voluntarily entered the program to support her long standing recovery process.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAMMER (voice-over): Now so far no one is giving out any specific details about the treatment or saying just why she decided to get help now. Houston has struggled with substance abuse for years. She's trying to make a comeback, so there's speculation that she's cleaning up her act to prepare for a movie role.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAMMER: Then there's been some alleged bad behaviour. TMZ reporting that Whitney has been acting up at some recent Prince concerts. In fact, TMZ says because of her antics, she's actually been banned from any future Prince shows.

Carol, it has been a long, sad story for someone who was at the absolute top. But anytime I hear about somebody getting help when they need help, I can only be happy to hear that news.

COSTELLO: Yes, absolutely. It's just sad when you remember Whitney Houston, you know, at the top of her game because she was amazing and now this.

Let's move on to Lindsay Lohan. She is expected back in court tomorrow. So how much longer will we continue to see her in front of a judge?

HAMMER: Until 2047, Carol, but I digress. The latest Lindsay Lohan saga actually looks like it's going to finally come to a close tomorrow. A source close to Lindsay telling CNN that Lohan will plead no contest tomorrow on charges that she stole a necklace from a Venice Beach jewelry store.

Now this plea deal will finally allow everyone to move on from this particular story and that would mean Lohan will only serve a couple weeks in jail for the escapade although she will still have to complete 480 hours of community service.

She seems to be taking this deal so she can get on with her life and restart her career. I know we've heard that before, but she is scheduled to begin work on a new film about John Gotti that's in October.

That's something she couldn't do if this trial dragged on or if she was sentenced to more jail time. But I do need to point out, Lindsay's reputation has sunk so low that even now, Paris Hilton was taking shots at her.

Paris just apologized for this joke, but in her new reality show, Paris gives away a pair of earrings. She jokes, if I were Lindsay, I would be stealing the earrings, not giving them away. And Carol, to think these two were BFFs not too many years ago.

COSTELLO: Not anymore. A.J. Hammer, many thanks. If you want information on everything breaking in the entertainment world, A.J.'s got it on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" at l11:00 p.m. on HLN.

Taking a look at stories making news later today. Microsoft is buying the internet phone service, Skype for a reported $8.5 billion. Microsoft has scheduled an 11 Eastern news conference in San Francisco.

At 2:30 Eastern, TSA administrator, John Pistole testifies about port security on Capitol Hill.

And President Obama taking up the issue of immigration reform today. He is headed to the border town of El Paso, Texas and a national park next to the border. That speech set for 3:30 Eastern.>

The final days of Osama Bin Laden. His three wives became a big part of his shrinking world. Now U.S. officials are getting ready to talk to them. We'll take a closer look.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COSTELLO: It is half past the hour. We want to bring you up to the minute on Osama Bin Laden and the stories surrounding him. The U.S. commando team that raided his compound was prepared for another bleak possibility.

Coming under fire from Pakistani police or military forces, two U.S. officials tell us they were authorized to use whatever fire power available to get out of Pakistan.

According to the initial review of the materials seized from the compound, most of the planning is considered aspirational. That means it was more wishful thinking than concrete details. Intelligence officials are still poring over the material.

The United States will have a chance to question Osama Bin Laden's three wives who lived at the compound. Pakistani authorities took them into custody after the raid.

Let's take a closer look at the Bin Laden wives. CNN's Reza Sayah is in Islamabad. So Reza, is this kind of an about face from Pakistani authorities as to whether to allow the United States to interview Osama Bin Laden's wives?

REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, last week, there was some doubt, some question whether Pakistan and its government and security establishment would give the U.S. access to the three widows of Osama Bin Laden.

There was some speculation that perhaps the Pakistani military and its spy agencies were concerned that these women would reveal some information that could implicate Pakistan's army and its spy agencies.

But we spoke to the interior minister today and told us the U.S. would have access to these three women. He rejected the notion that the Pakistani government was concerned about any information these three women would reveal to the U.S. Here's what the interior minister had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REHMAN MALIK, PAKISTAN'S INTERIOR MINISTER: Both the countries have agreed to share the information and we have no objection sharing this information with them.

SAYAH: So you will give access?

MALIK: Of course, we will.

SAYAH: OK, and what have you -- did you ever consider not giving the U.S. access to these wives?

MALIK: Why should we do that? We're fighting a war. That's part of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SAYAH: Pakistan's Interior Minister, Rehman Malik describing the U.S.-Pakistani partnership as healthy and intact, despite a very difficult week for Islamabad-Washington relations.

And I think Carol, at least for the short run, this move by Pakistan, allowing the U.S. at some point to question these three wives is an indication that they're still willing to cooperate in this all-important investigation.

COSTELLO: Reza Sayah live from Islamabad. Many thanks. The interrogation of those women treads into a potential mine field of Islamic sensitivity. CNN'S Zain Verjee is in London.

You know, wondering, Zain, how will the United States go about questioning these women to avoid problems?

VERJEE: Well, the way to look at it is first of all, there are about a billion people in the world that follow Islam, and there are different interpretations of Islam by all these people. When it comes to women specifically, there are rules depending on how you see it as to who women can talk to and who women cannot talk to.

Think of it, Carol, as kind of like an approved list, you know, where you can talk to your brother, you can talk to your father, you can talk to your husband, your son in more of a private, enclosed space. It's referred to as maharem (ph). There's also a nonapproved list, which basically means everyone else, every other man who is a stranger. And that's called nahmaherem (ph).

So, the thing is, when it comes to bin Laden's wives, you need to look at were they fully covered in burqas or nekarb (ph)? Because if that were the case, it would indicate they would probably not be too open to talking to male strangers. When it comes to interrogation and that, the U.S. would need to consider it more carefully. If there were wives that wore the hijab or didn't wear any kind of cover, they would be more open to talking to male strangers. So, you need to think about that.

COSTELLO: So - so, it's just a lot to think about. It sounds like it will be very difficult. Is there anything else about the interrogation process itself that the United States would have to change?

VERJEE: Well, having an interrogation by a male stranger to any of these women may be an issue. So, the one thing, according to one scholar I spoke to, said that one thing that would change would be to have a woman present. And that female would kind of be like a chaperone to the situation. And that they may be more comfortable. It's more a cultural attitude than a religious interpretation of a Koran.

COSTELLO: Fascinating stuff. Zain Verjee, live in London. Thank you.

A lot of people in Memphis have their fingers crossed this hour. The Mississippi River cresting at - it's near record high level for the city. Jacqui Jeras is in the Severe Weather Center. And Jacqui, how far is the water from the top of those levees?

JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, it's kind of close in some of these areas. It's going to be a close call down the line as well, especially when we're talking about places like New Orleans.

But I want to talk about cresting and what that actually means and how significant that is. A crest is basically the height of the water when it's at its greatest height. And that's significant because it also causes the greatest amount of pressure and it's as close as it's going to get in terms of flooding people's homes and businesses and that kind of thing.

So, here's the river gauge at the Mississippi River in Memphis. And this will show you -- this is the level it's at right now. And notice it's been this way really since yesterday morning, so we've been in the process of cresting with little rises and little falls in the range of just a couple of inches over the last 12 hours or so. It's expected to stay within this range at least through tomorrow morning. So, that's a long time for this river to stay at its height, and then it's going to stay in flood at major stage well into next week.

So, as we take a look at the big picture, all these purple dots, Carol, will show you where the river is in major flood. Notice that it's that way well above Memphis and all the way down into Baton Rouge. So, just kind of another example of how long term that these folks are going to be dealing with these high waters.

COSTELLO: Wow. Jacqui Jeras live in the Severe Weather Center. Thank you.

It is the news everyone that certainly is talking about today. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver have announced their separation after 25 years of marriage. Coming up after a break, we'll talk to a Kennedy biographer, Lawrence Leamer. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BRAEK)

COSTELLO: We learned some startling news this morning that Maria Shriver and Arnold Schwarzenegger have separated. In a statement, they said, "This has been a time of great personal and professional transition for each of us. After a great deal of thought, reflection, discussion and prayer, we came to this decision together. At this time, we are living apart while we work on the future of our relationship."

Joining us now is author and journalism Lawrence Leamer. He has written extensively about the Kennedys. He has also written a bestselling biography of Arnold Schwarzenegger. And thank you so much for coming in. We appreciate it.

LAWRENCE LEAMER, AUTHOR AND JOURNALIST: Thank you.

COSTELLO: So, are you surpriced by this?

LEAMER: Yes, I was stunned. I mean, it's lasted 25 years. I was living in L.A. at the time they got married, and "Los Angeles Magazine" had a cover story on the secrets of a happy marriage, and these six happy couples, none of them had been married more than five years. I mean, that's L.A. So, whatever the marriage is, they lasted 25 years, is a long, long time.

COSTELLO: And everybody is trying to figure out why now? Why the split now? Do you have any idea, any inkling?

LEAMER: No. I mean certainly, he's a winner. He likes to think of himself as a winner. He really was a failure as a governor, given the grandness of what he hoped to do. The children are old enough now.

And they -- when he -- I think one of the mistakes they made was that when he became governor, why didn't the whole family move to Sacramento and live like an American family? They didn't do that. Arnold stayed in a hotel suite in Sacramento and jetted back and forth. The family was brought up in that Beverly Hills lifestyle. Very different. Very different.

COSTELLO: We've all heard the rumors. You know, some of them are true, some of them are not that Arnold Schwarzenegger is sort of like, a playboy. He flirts and maybe does worse things. Do you think --

LEAMER: Gee, I never heard that before.

COSTELLO: I know! I don't want to come right out and say it. I'm going to leave that to you.

LEAMER: Yes, of course. The tabloids, for years, when he was the number one star in the world, really, he was in "The National Enquirer" and "The Star" and these tabloids -- all these stories about these other women, these kind of involvements.

When he decided to run for governor, he was very fortunate that American media that owns the tabloids had just bought the muscle magazines, the body building magazines. And they came to Arnold and basically cut a deal in which he would do a column for the muscle magazines. He would be a figurehead there on the masthead, and they would give him a million dollars a year, one percent interest in the magazines, and they would no longer write about him in the tabloids.

Now, we know about that. You just look at the tabloids from then. There's nothing more about his sex life that goes on. And even they -- they supposedly paid off at least one woman so she would not tell her story.

COSTELLO: So, you're suggesting that he sort of played around when he was governor? People would have found out, right? Even if it wasn't the tabloids.

LEAMER: I don't know what happened when he was the governor. The tabloids were no longer dogging his step. And political reporters, they may enjoy sex, but they don't enjoy writing about it. And they were not going to explore that part of his life, although "The Los Angeles Times" did at the end of the campaign. And they said we weren't looking at any supposed extramarital affairs. We were looking at something that might be illegal or wrong. And they came up with the story before the elections about him groping these women, these very inappropriate things. He said, I'm sorry. This --

COSTELLO: And she stood up for him --

LEAMER: She stood up for him.

COSTELLO: -- through all of this. So, I guess the bottom line is, is a divorce imminent or will they repair their relationship like they're talking about?

LEAMER: Well, I don't know, it seems doubtful in this public airing of this that you're going to get back together. She put up with this over the years, but it was an incredible marriage. They brought these unique things to it.

I mean, she was class. She was the Kennedy. She was the political knowledge that she had. She was sophistication. He was this kid from this village in Austria. Up from nothing. He was passion. He was this naked ambition. He didn't have the kind of sense of entitlement that she had. They brought these things together and really had a very major impact on American life.

COSTELLO: Yes, they were a powerful couple. That's why it came as such a shock to a lot of people that they were separating.

Thank you, Lawrence Leamer, for coming in.

LEAMER: Thank you.

COSTELLO: We appreciate it.

You hear conservatives saying it a lot, that raising taxes will kill jobs. But history does not always support that argument. We'll pit the tax hikers versus the tax cutters next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Right now, the government is gets closer to the $14.29 trillion debt ceiling. House Speaker John Boehner says Republicans won't agree to raise it unless there are trillions of dollars of spending cuts. But tax increases, tax hikes? They are out of the question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), HOUSE SPEAKER: A tax hike would wreak havoc not only on our nation's economy and its ability to create private sector jobs, but also on our ability to tackle the national debt. Balancing the budget requires spending cuts and real economic growth. We won't have economic growth if we raise taxes and fail to address the drivers of our debt.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COSTELLO: So is Speaker Boehner right? If you raise taxes on the richest Americans, would that kill jobs? There is an answer to that question. Really.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): Once I built a railroad.

COSTELLO (voice-over): 1932, the Great Depression. Al Jolsen summed up the mood. Jobs were scarce and Americans despaired. Would tax cuts save the day?

Republican president Herbert Hoover didn't think so. He raised taxes big time. The top individual rate rose from 25 percent to 63 percent. Ouch!

But was it really a job killer? According to some, in a word, no. Economist Lakshuan Achmatan saysjust nine months after Hoover shared the wealth, the economy began a powerful recovery. Real GNP growth averaged 10 percent over the next four years, and the jobless rate plunged to 14 percent.

Yes, there were a number of economic factors at play, but score one for tax hikers.

DOLLY PARTON, SINGER (singing): Working 9:00 to 5:00, what a way to make a living --

COSTELLO: 1981, Dolly Parton was a working girl. As the economy worked its way up from a recession, Ronald Reagan cut the top tax rate from 70 percent to 50 percent. And eventually, all the way down to 28 percent. Unemployment dropped from a high of 10.8 percent in 1983 to half that, 5.4 percent in 1988.

Economist Mark Zandi told us, the Reagan cut "was on the whole positive for the economy and jobs." Keep in mind, though, Reagan also raised taxes on business, on payroll taxes and on energy.

Still, says Zandi, score one for tax-cutbackers.

FLEETWOOD MAC, (singing): Don't stop thinking about tomorrow --

COSTELLO: With the sounds of his campaign song now faded, Bill Clinton raised taxes.

BILL CLINTON, FOMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: With over 80 percent of the tax burden being borne by those who make $200,000 a year.

COSTELLO: Republicans were outraged.

JOHN KASICH, FORMER GOP CONGRESSMAN: Why do we want to the eliminate taxes? Because your economic program is a job killer.

COSTELLO: Only it didn't happen. Within a year, unemployment dropped from about 7 percent to 5.8 percent, and around 4 percent when Clinton left office. Economist David Wyss says Clinton's tax hike "helped lead to balancing the budget and six of the strongest years for economic growth." Another win for tax hikers.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Now, the economists we interviewed pretty much agreed that changing tax rates, even in combination with shrinking our growing government, is just part of the picture. Plenty of other things can help derail job growth.

So, let's bring in Julian Zelizer. He's a history professor at Princeton. He wrote an opinion piece for CNN.com about President Reagan's tax increases because remember, Reagan decreased taxes but he also increased other taxes

So, I guess my first question is, with that in mind, why do you think Republicans won't budge? Why won't they even negotiate when it comes to raising taxes?

JULIAN ZELIZER, HISTORY PROFESSOR, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: Well, I think Republicans in general have become more rigid than they were in the 1980s. As partisanship has increased, as posturing for television has increased, there's less recognition of the challenges of governance where you have to make compromises. You have to reduce the deficit through spending cuts and tax increases. And Republicans don't want to give in in the same way one of their idols, Ronald Reagan, did.

COSTELLO: Well, I always think of the famous George H.W. Bush thing when he said, "Read my lips, no new taxes." But he had to raise taxes and he didn't win a second term. Is that in their minds too?

ZELIZER: Well, it is. That is one of the biggest fallouts within the Republican party. 1990, George H.W. Bush raises taxes. Newt Gingrich, then a member of Congress, a leading member of Congress, bolts and won't support George H.W. Bush through his election and really is quite angry with him.

So, there are many Republicans nervous about that. But I do think the Reagan model is an alternative that isn't discussed when someone who is just as avid about decreasing taxes and just as conservative as anyone at the time made these deals and understood the limits of what a conservative could do when they were in power.

COSTELLO: Well, it's even more confusing now, when you look at polls, and recent polls show most Americans favor a tax hike on the wealthiest Americans. And I'm talking about Republican voters as well. So, where is this coming from?

ZELIZER: It is pretty striking. The polls are very different than what the politicians are thinking. There's a lot of support in red and blue America for ending this extension of the tax cuts for the wealthy that passed under George W. Bush.

That said, politicians are always scared that the polls aren't reflecting what will happen when they take this move, when they make this move, when they actually allow the taxes to go up. Some are nervous that the polls aren't showing the political fallout that will happen.

Another answer is they are playing to the base of their party. The Republicans are more concerned about the people who come out in the primaries rather than the mass electorate, which seems to be okay with such a tax increase.

COSTELLO: And so, just a bottom-line last question, since you've studied this, if the Bush tax cuts continue to be ex tended, can the country get out of its debt woes?

ZELIZER: No. And it's very simple: they can't. To really get out of the debt woes, it will be a combination of spending cuts but tax increases as well. If that deal isn't made, the deficit, the debt both continue.

COSTELLO: Julian Zelizer, thank you so much for joining us this morning. We appreciate it.

ZELIZER: Thank you.

COSTELLO: In sports, the NBA playoffs has Lebron against the Celtics. Derrick Rose and the Lakers going out. But no one is talking about the Thunder-Grizzlies series and boy, is it fantastic. Final seconds, Memphis down three. Mike Connolly. (INAUDIBLE) gets a three-pointer there. Wow, he ties it at 96, and they go into overtime!

In OT, again, the Grizzlies are down three. In the final seconds, this time, it's Vasquez - oh! And he ties it. Go to a second and third overtime. Thunder all-star Kevin Durant takes over. Oklahoma City wins in triple overtime. The series tied two games apiece.

Tony Romo better keep his day job. The Dallas Cowboys quarterback failed to make the U.S. Open. Shooting a nine over par 81 in his qualifying round yesterday. His par included a double bogey - ooh -- and a triple bogey. Romo told "The Dallas Morning News" the course was a monster. It's a good thing he has that other job. Although maybe not this coming season, huh?

The Latino vote could be crucial in the 2012 election. We'll break that down for you in our Political Ticker. That's just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Checking news Cross-Country now. In Memphis, the Mississippi River is cresting today. Could hit 14 feet above flood stage. It's the highest the Mississippi has been in Memphis since 1937.

Here's something you don't see on the highway every day. This is a driverless car. It's being developed by Torque Technologies out of Blacksburg, Virginia. A company technician says the car's route is plotted out so an onboard computer knows the speed limit and the rules of the road.

In Pennsylvania, 80-year-old Charles Mastervich began college in 1955. He intended to take a year off before heading back to school, and now he's finally graduating. He says things have really changed since the '50s.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES MASTERVICH, GRADUATED COLLEGE AT 80: Back then, I had to do reports with -- using carbon paper on a typewriter. You're never too old to learn.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: No you're not.

Coming up next on CNN NEWSROOM, the river still rising and threatening thousands across eight states. We'll talk to a member of the Army Corps of Engineers about what they are trying to do to stop it.

And we're going inside the workshop of the tech giants Google. All that and more coming up in the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: President Obama is pushing immigration reform in a speech in El Paso, Texas today. CNN deputy political director Paul Steinhauser is here now. President just took off!

PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, headed to the border down there along Mexico to talk about immigration reform and border security.

And Carol, it is such an important issue. May not be as number one like the economy, but it is going to be an important issue in the next election. Remember, in 2008, the Democrats won - or President Obama won -- two-thirds of the Latino Hispanic vote. That went down a little bit in the midterm elections last year.

But look at this. Here's some crucial states where Latinos and Hispanics could be influential. Battleground states. And of course, states the president wants to win again. Colorado, New Mexico, Nevada, Florida. All these states, Latino population rising, could determine the outcome next year in the presidential election.

COSTELLO: It will be interesting to see what he has to say.

STEINHASUER: Oh, yes.

COSTELLO: Many Latinos are pretty angry at the president these days for a variety of things. Talking about the battle for Congress, where do things stand?

STEINHAUSER: Yes, the battle for Congress kind of gets overshadowed by the White House. Sorry, Congress. But it is important.

Take a look at this. This is our most recent poll, it just came out about a minute ago.

COSTELLO: Oh!

STEINHAUSER: And here it is. Who would you vote for your in your district. Democrat or Republican? Democrats with a four-point margin. Just before last year's elections, the Republicans have a six-point margin. We know they did very well, obviously, in the midterms. Democrats need 25 seats to reclaim control of the House next year. We'll keep our eyes on all that. It's still a long way away, though.

COSTELLO: Paul Steinhauser, many thanks. We'll have your next political update in an hour. And a reminder, for all the latest political news, go to our Web site, CNNpolitics.com.

That does it for me - actually, I'm going to join Drew Griffin in just a bit to talk about tax hikes on the wealthy. And whether that will be a real possibility. You know, they're going to fight about that in the halls of Congress real soon.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, you think? Just a little bit, Carol?

COSTELLO: Just a little.

GRIFFIN: Should be great. Thanks. We'll see you in a little bit.