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Tense and Heated Moments in Casey Anthony Trial; List of the Missing in Missouri

Aired May 26, 2011 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: We want to start this hour with the high-profile murder trial of Casey Anthony out of Florida.

The new details are riveting, and there were some tense and heated moments today as the defense questioned a key witness, Casey Anthony's father. The 25-year-old Florida mom is accused of killing her 2-year-old daughter Caylee nearly three years ago.

So let's get straight to what's happening in court right now. Legal analyst Sunny Hostin of our sister network "In Session" is watching the case closely. She joins me now from New York.

Sunny, on the stand right now, another ex-boyfriend of Casey's who took a picture of Caylee, who clearly had bruises on her face. We'll get to him, though, more in just a moment. But first, I want to talk about Casey's dad, George Anthony.

I mean, we know he's a key witness, and certainly an important part of the defense's argument to explain Casey's behavior. On the stand today, he didn't look so happy. What did we learn from him?

SUNNY HOSTIN, "IN SESSION," TRUTV: Well, he was very, very combative. And I think while we didn't learn that much about him, about the facts of this case, I think we learned a lot from his demeanor in the courtroom.

He accused Jose Baez of badgering him, of trying to get him angry. He also said some things like, "If you respect me, I'll respect you."

It was really something that you often don't see from a witness. Usually witnesses, during cross-examination, don't battle like that. And so I will say the defense is trying to paint him out to be this abusive, controlling figure in the Anthony household. And in my view, he really made that picture seem a little more clearer on the witness stand. So his behavior on the witness stand told a lot, and perhaps may have helped the defense.

KAYE: I know that lawyers did -- they certainly kept pressing George Anthony about this gas can and the smell of Casey Anthony's trunk. Let's listen to what he said and then I want to ask you a question about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSE BAEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You actually were close enough to smell the trunk of that car, were you not?

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY'S FATHER: The only smell that I had smelled were gas cans, and they were placed on the ground in front of me.

BAEZ: And you did not smell any smell of human decomposition on June 24th of 2008 in the trunk of your daughter's car?

ANTHONY: I did not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Now, tying these gas cans, Sunny, to Casey Anthony is pretty significant. Can you help explain why?

HOSTIN: Well, it certainly is significant because the prosecution is alleging that she kept Caylee Anthony's little body in the trunk of the car, and that everybody talked about the smell of death emanating from that car. Some are saying, well, gasoline perhaps would mask that smell. Others are saying things like, well, perhaps she just ran out of gas, as some 20-something-year-olds often do.

But what's also important, Randi, about those gas cans is that there was a piece of Duct tape found on the gas can. And one of the prosecution's theories is that Duct tape was placed by Casey Anthony around the face of little Caylee Anthony, thus suffocating her. So for various reasons, these gas cans are very important and crucial to the prosecution's case.

KAYE: Yes. It certainly sounds that way.

Prosecutors and defense have offered different portraits, we know, of Casey. Her ex-boyfriend, Anthony Lazzaro, testified earlier today, describing her as an affectionate mom to Caylee. Another ex, Ricardo Morales, is on the stand right now.

There was a picture that the jurors saw of Caylee with a bruise to her face, which I mentioned earlier. So can you talk to me a little bit about that picture and what his testimony actually added to it?

HOSTIN: Sure. Well, there was a picture taken that he took of Casey Anthony and Caylee in his apartment. Apparently, they spent a lot of time there, even spending the night in the same bed with Ricardo Morales when they were dating each other. And the defense and the prosecution discussed this picture pretrial because there's a little bruise on her face.

And now we know Casey Anthony has been charged with aggravated child abuse. And so the defense doesn't want these jurors to think that somehow, Casey Anthony struck her daughter.

The judge is supposed to give the jury an instruction about that bruise. That hasn't happened yet, but it really is a very damaging picture without explanation to this jury, because, again, there's a pretty big bruise on her face.

Casey Anthony, and I believe Ricardo Morales, also says that that happened because little Caylee ran into a table. But it really is kind of out there for the jury. And also, let me mention this. The shirt that she's wearing in the picture, little Caylee, that is the shirt that was found on her remains.

KAYE: I couldn't help but notice, though, Casey's father, just getting back to him for just a moment, he was looking at his daughter during this testimony. And Casey was avoiding eye contact with him. When jurors see this play out, this family drama, how does this go over with them?

HOSTIN: You know, we know from statistics and from studies that jurors watch defendants very carefully to try to read emotion as to what's going on in the courtroom. I think it can be read a couple of ways.

It can be read in favor of the defense, that she's afraid of her father and that he sexually abused her, he's still in control of her. For the prosecution, however, perhaps it can be read in the prosecution's favor, maybe she's ashamed of the fact that she's falsely accusing him of sexual abuse.

All in all, we do know, though, Randi, this jury is riveted by all of the testimony and has been watching Casey Anthony intently all morning and day long.

KAYE: All right, Sunny. Very interested case.

And we want to remind you, of course, that you can watch special coverage of Casey Anthony's trial all day on our sister network, HLN. You can also count on Nancy Grace to bring you up to speed on all of today's developments tonight at 8:00 Eastern on HLN.

And Sunny, I believe you're still with us, because I want to turn now our attention to Jared Lee Loughner, who was ruled mentally unfit to stand trial. He's charged, as we all know, in the January mass shooting in Tucson that killed six people and wounded 13 others, including Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords.

He's going to remain in custody now, Sunny, until he's stable enough for the trial to go forward. But what does this really mean?

HOSTIN: Well, the judge sort of set a control date of September 21st. The U.S. attorney in Arizona says they are convinced that he can be made competent in about four months.

It could mean when they go back to court, he will have been treated with some sort of medication and received counseling, and that he will be found to be competent at that point. It could also mean, Randi, that he still remains incompetent to stand trial. And, you know, unfortunately for the prosecution, and for the victims, that is something that has happened before in other cases, where there are people, 12, 15 years down the line, still incompetent to stand trial for the crimes that they have allegedly committed. KAYE: And so what would happen? He would just remain in a prison hospital?

HOSTIN: That's right. He would be -- he would remain in a federal institution until he became competent, if ever.

KAYE: Is there a possibility -- I mean, you know. We've talked about this case many times. I mean, when you look at him and you look at the evidence against him, some of it is just flat-out bizarre. And then you have his breakdown in court yesterday.

Do you think there's any possibility at all that he's faking it?

HOSTIN: You know, of course, Randi, you're right, we've talked about this off and on camera. I don't think there's any evidence that he is malingering, no evidence whatsoever.

Many people have said that he -- there was a steep decline in his mental health over the past two to three years. That is consistent with people suffering, especially men, from paranoid schizophrenia. The onset of it is usually early 20s, late teens. So, the timeline is appropriate.

There is no indication of malingering. A court psychiatrist and psychologist, one independent, found that he was certainly suffering from paranoid schizophrenia.

KAYE: So is this -- is something like this a blow to prosecutors? I mean, they certainly don't have him behind bars. Does this feel like a failure, as a prosecutor, or was the most important thing to just have him put away somewhere?

HOSTIN: Well, you know, prosecutors certainly want justice. And with a case like this, we know about Congresswoman Giffords, and her life has been changed forever. Six dead victims, including a federal judge.

Prosecutors certainly want justice, and that's why I think we're hearing from the U.S. attorney in Arizona that they are convinced that he can be made competent. But, you know, being away from the general public and not being able to harm anyone else, it is something that I think a prosecutor would consider as well.

KAYE: All right. Sunny Hostin, thanks so much for weighing in on both those important cases that we're watching.

Thank you.

HOSTIN: Thank you.

KAYE: And to Washington now, where less than four weeks after this nation's greatest victory in the war against terror, three separate counterterrorism measures are just about to expire. Two are in the post-9/11 Patriot Act, the other comes from the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Protection Act of 2004. They will fade into history midnight, less than 10 hours from now, unless a renewal passes both houses of Congress and is signed by President Obama, who, by the way, is in France.

And what are these critical tools, as the director of National Intelligence calls them? Well, one is the roving wiretap. That allows investigators to eavesdrop with a single court order on suspects who use multiple phones or phone numbers.

Also expiring is the power to seize "any tangible thing" considered relevant to a national security investigation.

And finally, the lone wolf provision, allowing surveillance of non-U.S. citizens who may be up to no good but aren't connected with a foreign power or a group.

The politics might surprise you. A Senate vote is hung up over civil liberties concerns, but Democrats aren't actually the ones raising them. At least they're not the ones complaining the loudest.

Instead, Majority Leader Harry Reid is complaining about the roadblocks raised by Republican freshman and Tea Party champion Rand Paul. We want you to take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: Unless the senator from Kentucky stops standing in the way, our law enforcement will no longer be able to use some of the most critical tools they need to counter terrorists and combat terrorism. If they cannot use these tools, tools that identify and track terror suspects, it could have dire consequences for our national security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: I'm somehow to be told that because I leave a judge should sign a warrant, that I'm in favor of terrorists having weapons? The absurdity of it, the insult of it.

If one argues that judges should sign warrants before they go into the House of an alleged murderer, are you in favor of murder?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Paul wants a series of amendments, one of which would exempt gun records from Patriot Act investigations. Now, here is where things stand though.

The Senate voted this morning by huge margin to cut off debate and move to a final vote. But under Senate rules, that can't happen for 30 hours unless Paul agrees. And the deadline, remember, 10 hours away. So we will of course keep you posted on where this goes.

Our "Sound Effect" today is a daughter's heartfelt defense of her scandalized mother. The TV network Telemundo spoke exclusively with Jackie Rozo, whose mother, Mildred Baena, is Arnold Schwarzenegger's former housekeeper and mother of his teenage son. That news was a bombshell, and the whole world clamored for details.

Well, we've gotten plenty, but Rozo says we still don't know Mildred Baena.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKIE ROZO, DAUGHTER OF MILDRED BAENA: It doesn't matter what any newspaper says, or anything, because, you know, I know my mom, and, you know, her friends and her family, we all know her. We know the Mildred. So, the Mildred they put out there, it's just like -- it's just, you know gossip, rumors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Rozo says her mom is an inspiration, and her brother, Schwarzenegger's son, "knows that I love him, I'm his family, and I'm always there with him." That is what she said.

A new list is out today on those still missing in Missouri following Sunday's deadly tornado. But the list apparently is not without problems.

That is just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: This just in. President Barack Obama will nominate General Martin Dempsey, the Army chief of staff, to be the next chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Several administration officials said the current chairman Admiral Mike Mullen's term is ending in September. The officials all warned though that since it has not been officially announced yet, there is a chance the president could change his mind. The White House and Pentagon declined to comment on the nomination.

Four days after that devastating tornado tore through Joplin, Missouri, state officials today released an official list of those who remain unaccounted for. Two hundred thirty-two names are on that list. They're all people for whom missing person reports have been filed. It includes some who have died but haven't been positively identified.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREA SPILLERS, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, MISSOURI DEPT. OF PUBLIC SAFETY: Now, keeping in mind on that list there are individuals that we are working directly with their family members to identify and notify their loved ones that they are deceased. But there are also individuals on the list that we have not accounted for, so we're asking for your help and the public's help to account for those individuals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: The new list comes amid mounting frustration from victims' family members. Part of it has to do with a holdup at the morgue. Joining me now by phone is Newton County coroner Mark Bridges.

Mr. Bridges, thanks so much for your time today.

I'm hoping that you can help us understand and get us an answer on this -- why aren't families being allowed into the morgue? From where we sit, it seems like that would certainly speed things up.

MARK BRIDGES, NEWTON COUNTY, MISSOURI, CORONER: Hello. Yes.

The situation that we have in our temporary morgue is that we have 125-plus bodies, approximately 125-plus bodies, that are in temporary refrigeration. And we have to wait for a federal -- we've had to wait for a federal team to set up. They've had to fly them in from all over the United States.

They have $2 million worth of equipment. Now they're set up and now they are functioning so they can I.D. these individuals. They got a few out yesterday. They're hoping to start to get 19-plus out per day from here on in, if they had no snags.

KAYE: But why aren't families allowed?

BRIDGES: Well, at this point, at the very first, we had -- our very first case, we had a false I.D. And a lot of these people are hard to recognize. Not to talk in a negative vain, but a lot of them have injuries. At the very least, a lot of them have blood on their face, they don't look like they used to look. So the very first case we had a false I.D., and from that point on we decided -- the federal government actually recommends that you do full testing on the individuals, get a dental exam, match them with records, just to make sure we give the right body to the family.

KAYE: And then the families will be notified somehow after the identity is made?

BRIDGES: That's right. And we are starting to make identities.

The families come into the family center, bring all the records that they have. They're immediately inputted into the system. The morgue, as the individuals go through, they input that information into the system. And it's working well thus far to match the individuals that we have with the reports we have from the families.

KAYE: Just quickly, I also want to ask you -- last hour, our correspondent Brian Todd pointed out that he had the list of the missing people, and there was one person who was listed twice on that list. So how are officials going about making sure that there aren't duplications like this?

BRIDGES: Well we not working off of their list. We just go through and we inventory the bodies, their personal effects, give them a number on that bag, and then we take the information on the bag, and then we take it through the line that the federal government set up for identification. So we won't -- if they have two people on the list, we won't have two people on our list. KAYE: And has your morgue still been receiving victims, even today?

BRIDGES: I understand that overnight -- I haven't had time to get over there today -- but I understand that there were a few more people brought in. So, until I get to the morgue, I won't have an exact number.

KAYE: All right. Mr. Bridges, we certainly appreciate you helping to clear that up. We now have a better understanding of how this all works there.

Thank you so much for your time.

BRIDGES: Sure.

KAYE: And to find out more on how you can help those devastated by the tornadoes, go to CNN.com/impact. Right there you'll find all of the organizations and many ways that you can help those in need. Once again, that is CNN.com/impact.

A trend in crime that's baffling even the most experienced experts. The breakdown on what has criminologists dumbfounded, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAYE: Let's go "Off the Radar."

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Hey, we haven't been "Off the Radar" in a while.

KAYE: It has been a while.

MYERS: We've only on the radar.

KAYE: Yes. I know. Right?

MYERS: Gosh.

KAYE: Take us off. Give us a break.

MYERS: We may be going back up in space.

KAYE: Really?

MYERS: I know you know the shuttle's going to stop flying.

KAYE: Not we.

MYERS: Not you. Well, maybe. It's just going to take a long time.

KAYE: What do you know? MYERS: We're going to be 90 by the time it goes up.

A new spacecraft called Multi-Purpose Crew Vehicle is in the works -- well, OK, maybe. It's going to take four astronauts. It's going to go up into space.

It's going to be a six-month flight to the red planet in 2030. So we have a little while to work on it to get it --

KAYE: Yes.

MYERS: But it's going to be a lot like the old Apollo, where it's going to splash down in the Pacific. We're not going to land this thing anymore.

You know, they had some problems trying to get things back. The re-entry was a problem with the shuttle.

KAYE: Right.

MYERS: They're not going to re-entry anymore. It's going to be a one-time up and down, the splash. But if you go to Mars one time, you don't really have to go back, do you?

KAYE: No. That's really cool. 2030?

MYERS: Bring a couple Martians back down with us, we'll be in good shape. 2030.

KAYE: I'm marking it down.

MYERS: It's a long -- even the first test flight won't be until 2016. But it's something to look forward to from NASA.

KAYE: Something to talk about for, what, the next 20 years or so for us?

MYERS: If my career lasts that long.

(LAUGHTER)

KAYE: All right, Chad. We hope so. Thank you.

MYERS: You're welcome.

KAYE: The time right now is 25 minutes past the hour. Let's update our top stories.

Key provisions of the Patriot Act could expire at midnight if Congress doesn't pass a four-year extension. It's caught up in procedural wrangling right now in the Senate and it still has to go before the House. If senators managed to pass it, the expiring provisions of the anti-terrorism law deal with roving wiretaps, tracking alleged lone wolf terrorists, and allowing authorities to obtain any records that they deem relevant to an investigation. The Supreme Court sides with Arizona on a law punishing businesses that knowingly hire illegal immigrants. In a 5-3 ruling, the justices rejected arguments that the Arizona law steps on traditional federal oversight over immigration. Challenges to a more controversial Arizona law that would give people a greater role in arresting suspected illegal immigrants are working their way through lower courts.

A source says former International Monetary Fund chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn is living it up, living in luxury in a townhouse in New York's trendy Tribeca neighborhood. He is under house arrest, you may recall, awaiting his trial for raping a hotel maid.

Well, a real estate listing says that the townhouse that he's now living in is nearly 7,000 square feet with rent listed at $60,000 a month. A far cry from that jail at Rikers.

You probably think crime rates are up, right, with the recession? Well, it is actually down. We will explain. The story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: I want to talk about an interesting but surprising trend that is puzzling even criminologists. Here's the deal.

Crime has steadily declined in recent years. Factor in the recession, high unemployment, and most experts were actually predicting crime rates would go up. It would make sense, right?

The FBI released some data this week from more than 13,000 law enforcement agencies, and that brings me to today's "Big Breakdown." The exact opposite is happening, so we want you to take a look here.

The number of violent crimes in the nation plunged last year to the lowest rate in nearly 40 years. You look at robbery, well, that fell 9.5 percent last year after a similar drop before that. And despite a miserable and devastating economic crisis, that's what has everybody really puzzled. So, murder -- yes, murder -- down 4.4 percent nationwide. Even take a look at this one, forcible rape, aggravated assault, dropped too. Look at the numbers. So did property crimes like burglary, car thefts and arson.

Criminologists say this trend is surprising, striking, and, yes, they also say it is remarkable. It's especially true in small towns with under 10,000 people where murders plummeted more than 25 percent last year in these small towns.

We're all seemingly safer across the country except maybe -- yes, in New York City. In big cities with more than a million people, New York was the only city besides San Antonio where violent crimes actually shot up last year. And it's the only place, besides Philly, to have a rise in murders.

But crime experts explain this increase by pointing to the historic lows last year. They say New York's drop in crime over the last 20 years has far outpaced many other places. And so of course, they say all we're doing now is playing catch-up.

Experts are having a harder time explaining this falling trend in crime across the U.S. By most accounts, economic hardships and lower incarceration rates should equal higher crime rates, but that's clearly not the case. We looked at our numbers. In fact, this has many crime experts scratching their heads, mystified and rethinking existing crime theory.

But we're just fine with that, thank you. We'll just chalk it up to the good of mankind, yes.

Meanwhile, a controversial law that restricts collective bargaining has been put on hold. The details, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: It is half past the hour. Here's a look at stories you may have missed.

It's now day three of the Casey Anthony murder trial, and the jurors heard from Casey's dad, a key witness. The defense argues that George Anthony sexually abused his daughter and saw his granddaughter, Caylee, drown in a pool. But prosecutors are arguing he knew nothing about Caylee's death. Two of Casey Anthony's ex-boyfriends also returned to the stand today. When asked how Casey was with Caylee, one described her as an affectionate mother.

Several key anti-terror measures could expire at midnight if Congress is not able to pass a four-year extension. Currently it's caught up in procedural wrangling in the Senate and still has to go before the House if senators manage to pass it. The expiring provisions deal with roving wiretaps tracking alleged lone wolf terrorists and allowing authorities to obtain any records they deem relevant to an investigation.

In Joplin, Missouri today, authorities released a lit of the missing. The list includes 232 names which are being published on Missouri's Public Safety Department Web site. But the list only includes those whose families filled out a missing person report. The public safety deputy director said some people on the missing list may be dead, and officials will work with the families to identify them. The death toll now stands at 125.

Dealing a blow to Wisconsin governor Scott Walker, a Wisconsin judge has struck down the state's controversial law that restricts collective bargaining for state workers. The judge ruled that legislators violated the state's open meetings law and failed to provide the public with enough notice before passing the measure. The ruling renders the law void, but this decision is not the end to the legal fight. The state supreme court is scheduled to hear arguments in June to determine whether it will consider the case.

Accused of masterminding the massacre of 8,000 people, former Bosnian Serb general Ratko Mladic is no longer a free man. The latest on his dramatic capture, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: The government of Serbia today announcing the capture of the man accused of ordering the worst massacre of civilians since World War II. We want to talk more about this with Michael Holmes. Tell us about him.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, he's been on the run really since, what, '95? He was indicted for genocide and a bunch of other things, including torture, organizing the rape of women as well.

The big one, he oversaw the siege of Sarajevo, for one, the big one was Srebrenica. And that was in 1995, when his troops went in and basically -- well, literally massacred between 6,000 and 8,000 Bosnian Muslim men and boys.

The other thing that made this worse, the Srebrenica declared a U.N. safe haven. People were meant to be safe there. There was a Dutch U.N. contingent that was there, very small, very lightly armed, and basically overrun. And his men went in and butchered people. There's all kinds of evidence. There's video evidence of this happening. That's one of the videos there. I can tell you, it doesn't end well.

KAYE: So, where has he been? Do they know for the last 15 years?

HOLMES: I think he's basically been wandering around. The thing is, there's a fringe, a ultra-nationalist fringe in Serbia that still supports him and thinks he was a patriot and he was only looking after the interests of Serbia. And so he's had friends who have been looking after him all of this time. There were reports of him on ski fields, reports of him going to relatives' birthday parties and christenings and stuff like that. And it ended up he was caught in a village still only 50 kilometers from the capital. Again, hiding in plain sight.

KAYE: Sounds very similar -

HOLMES: Doesn't it?

KAYE: I was just going to say, boy, sounds really similar to somebody else.

HOLMES: And a lot of people think that the only reason they moved on him was some seriousness was the fact not turning him over has been keeping Serbia out of European Union - or keeping it out of the process of getting into the European Union.

KAYE: Yemen, more violence there against the government.

HOLMES: We've talked about this before.

KAYE: I feel like we talk about it every day.

HOLMES: Yes, but how this could have gone -- the worst thing that could happen continue becomes a full-on civil war. It's on the brink of that now because you've have got tribes that turned against the government, clashing with government forces. Other tribes getting involved. Those tribes don't necessarily get along with each other, either.

So, far from having a nice easy transition of power to some sort of opposition that everyone agrees to, no. You've got here fighting on the streets and outside of the capital, Saan'a, as well. This could go even worse very, very quickly. At least 28 people were killed in explosion that took place at a weapons storage site in Sann'a, by the way. But Ali Abdullah Saleh, been in power 33 years. Three times recently he's turned down a deal that was done, negotiated.

KAYE: Yes. Is that why there's been this uptick in violence? They're just frustrated, right?

HOLMES: Fed up with it. He just won't go. Even the U.S., because of course Salah has been an ally of the U.S. in the fight against al Qaeda in Yemen, the U.S. held off saying he should go which people thought has made it keep on going.

But even they're saying now that they're looking at putting sanctions and going through channels to put pressure on him to get out. If this goes full-on civil war, you could end up with the militants running the country.

KAYE: But I want to ask you, does he have any reason to go? I mean, if he looks at what happened in Egypt with Mubarak, he looks at what's happening in Libya, I mean, you know, there's no great outcome for him.

HOLMES: There's no way he's going to stay in control of the country. I mean, he's done, in much of the way Gadhafi's done. But we've really seen the last of the Middle East and North African dictators who were going to go quietly.

KAYE: Yes. All right, Michael, very interesting stuff.

HOLMES: Good to see you.

KAYE: Thank you. Good to see you on this Thursday as well.

Two very opinionated commentators get into a verbal war of words, and one of them gets suspended for using the s word. We will explain, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Some heated words by MSNBC host Ed Schultz lands him in big trouble. In fact, we've learned MSNBC suspended the host without pay for a week. Listen to what Schultz says about conservative pundit Laura Ingram.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

ED SCHULTZ, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: What are the Republicans thinking about? They're not thinking about their next-door neighbor. They're just thinking about how much this is going to cost.

President Obama is going to be visiting Joplin, Missouri, on Sunday. But you know what they're talking about? Like this right- wing slut, what's her name? Laura Ingram? Yes, she's a talk slut.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KAYE: Schultz' slur came in response to Ingram's criticism of President Barack Obama's trip to England. Ingram slammed the president on Fox News for touring Ireland while tornadoes were devastating the heartland of the U.S. She accused of Obama being disconnected and tone deaf.

Well, let's bring in Howard Kurtz, who is the Washington bureau chief for "The Daily Beast and "Newsweek." He joins me now from D.C.

Howard, Schultz has come out, he's apologized to Ingram, calling what he said, quote, "vile and inappropriate language." And to be fair, he offered to take himself off MSNBC for an indefinite period of time without pay. What's your take on this?

HOWARD KURTZ, CNN HOST, "RELIABLE SOURCES": Well, I think he was lucky to get away with just being of the air for one week. A lot of broadcasters might have lost their jobs by saying something so stupid, offensive and misogynist. And I agree with Ed Schultz, it was vile and offensive. I give him credit for apologizing, and I give MSNBC for moving quickly and not letting this fester.

KAYE: Yes. I mean, he says he's embarrassed himself, he's embarrassed his family. Meanwhile, Ingram has some biting words of her own. I mean, her relationship with Schultz, how would you describe it?

KURTZ: Probably nonexistent after this point.

But look, I mean, she's a conservative who works for Fox and has her own radio show. Ed Schultz is a passionate liberal who works for MSNBC. I don't expect them to like each other, and he's entitled to beat her up over her views every day of the week. But to go where he went, into the gutter with that kind of language is really hard to understand.

But I have to tell you, Randi, this is not the first time that Ed Schultz talked his way into trouble. In fact, MSNBC management has talked to him about toning things down because he's been very personal in calling, for example, New Jersey governor Chris Christie a fat slob. Refers to Rush Limbaugh as "the drug steward." He used to have a segment on his show called Psycho Talk; MSNBC got rid of that.

So, he knows power of words to wound. He has gone over the line in the past, never like this. This is the worst thing he's ever said, by his own admission.

KAYE: Yes. But you know, when you hear the word slut - I mean, I hate to even say it on our air, to be honest with you - but there are -- there are mixed interpretations about the word. KURTZ: Well, I think that it is a word that stings in -- it's a word certainly you would never reply to a man. Sometimes we kid around say oh, you're a media whore, you'll go on anything. But when you just say, she's a slut. She's a right-wing slut. I mean, it's a clearly a sexually derogatory term.

And you know, Ed Schultz is smart not to try to well, defend it by saying, well, what I really meant to say, and this was demeaning. He realizes what he did. That was a very emotional and full-throated apology that he delivered, that indeed, he had to deliver on the air. So, I give him credit for that.

But this is a guy who makes his living broadcasting every day on the radio, on television. He should know better. And as I say, other people -- Don Imus comes to mind, making fun of the Rutgers women's basketball team -- have lost their jobs over slurs like this.

KAYE: I did notice that Sarah Palin has tweeted about it, saying "Keeping it classy, Eddie." Would you expect that others are going to be weighing in here or you think will this be the end of it?

KURTZ: Well, I think that Schultz and MSNBC probably have contained the damage by agreeing to the suspension and having the full-throated apology. But sure, lots of people who don't like what Ed Schultz have to say are going to beat him up over this, it will reverberate around the blogosphere, and you know what? He asked for it. This is a totally self-inflected wound.

KAYE: All right. Howard Kurtz, appreciate you weighing in. As always, thank you.

How would you feel if I told you there was a loophole that allows for easier purchases of high-powered weapons. What if I told you that this loophole also avoids background checks? Our "Stream Team" will pull the trigger on this topic right after the break.

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KAYE: Machine guns, short-barreled rifles and grenades are not your typical weapons. These are considered Title II weapons, and for each Title II purchase, a person must submit photos and fingerprints to federal authorities for a background check. Even if those check come back clear, a local official like a sheriff for district attorney gets to weigh in on the purchase. So, even after passing the initial check, the purchase can still be denied.

However, there is a way around this. If you set up a certain type of trust, you can avoid the normal precautions, like a background check and get your weapon.

Jeff Folloder is the executive director of the National Firearms Act Trade and Collectors Association. J. Tom Morgan is the former district attorney for DeKalb County here in Georgia. Thank you both for coming on to chat about this.

Jeff, I want to start with you. Tell me why these trusts can be a good idea, as you say.

JEFF FOLLODER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT TRADE AND COLLECTORS ASSOCIATION: Well, there are several reasons that trusts and corporations are used in the purchase of NFA weapons or Title II weapons. Most of that is to provide for things like probate issues and transfer of the weapons in the event that a seccession issue takes place.

KAYE: So you have no problem, then, Jeff, with the trusts themselves? I mean, what about the lack of a background check that comes along with setting up one of these and going about it this way to get your firearm?

FOLLODER: Well, it is a bit troubling. I'd like to actually point out that the chief law enforcement officers that you talked about earlier do not have the ability to either approve or reject an application. They have the ability to either sign or not sign the application. Once they have signed the application to purchase one of these weapons, it is then that the background check occurs with the FBI.

And interestingly enough, when a chief law enforcement officer chooses to not sign the application for this weapon, what winds up happening is is that people go ahead and set up a trust. And the net effect of it is a background check never takes place because the chief law enforcement officer didn't sign the form.

KAYE: Got it. J. Tom, I want to bring you in. You were a D.A., and it was your job to review the applications for Title II weapons. Did you approve any? And if so, what was the circumstance?

J. TOM MORGAN, FORMER DISTRICT ATTORNEY, DEKALB COUNTY, GA: Randi, only once in 12 years did I ever make such an approval. That was a rare circumstance where a business owner has large sums of cash every evening that he needed to get three blocks to the bank. So, approved the purchase of this Title II weapon.

Our audience needs to understand, we're not talking about shotguns and deer rifles here. We're talking about large-caliber, high-powerful, automatic and semiautomatic weapons, which we need checks and balances on.

KAYE: Yes. From what I read, this includes rockets and silencers and all kinds of stuff. J. Tom, you were in an urban market, Atlanta. Would you have ruled differently, do you think, if you were in, say, Idaho or Montana?

MORGAN: That's one of the problems. In urban area, I have a constituency to protect and I had no qualms about denying and not signing off on these applications.

Also, I disagree. I think very few people are going to hire a lawyer and go to the trouble of getting a trust if you deny signing these applications. In some areas, though, the prosecutor would be under a lot of pressure to sign these applications, which is why we need uniformity nationwide and not on a prosecutor or sheriff-by- sheriff basis.

KAYE: And Jeff, there are so many local law enforcement officers around the country with the power to veto purchases. You get so many different opinions. Do you think there should be one uniform federal standard?

FOLLODER: Well, it's interesting. Again, you just said that the sheriff or the chief law enforcement officer has the power to veto this purchase. There is no power of the sheriff to veto the purchase. In 1934, the National Firearms Act was put into law. And the only situation that was given to the chief law enforcement officers was to offer information if they had it available that that user or that purchaser shouldn't own the weapon. And in today's age --

KAYE: OK, but should there be a uniform, federal standard, do you think?

FOLLODER: But there is. Right now if that form is signed, a uniformed federal investigation conducted by the FBI is conducted on that purchaser, and it comes back either approved or not approved, depending upon what the FBI finds out. And that includes whether on the weapon is legal for ownership in a given locality or state.

KAYE: J. Tom, you want to weigh in here?

MORGAN: Again, we're talking about semantics here. You cannot get that weapon unless the chief law enforcement officer or prosecutor signs off on it. That's why we need a uniformed standard, Randi.

KAYE: And what is your greatest concern, J. Tom? I mean, if these weapons are out there, what is your greatest fear that could happen?

MORGAN: That these weapons get in the hands of persons such as terrorists, such as gang leaders, drug dealers. These, as I said, are not the type of weapons that most persons in our society would even want to have. So, if anyone has one of these, we need to know who they are, where they are, and what they are doing with these weapons.

KAYE: J. Tom, Jeff, we'll leave it there. Thank you both for weighing in.

MORGAN: Thank you.

KAYE: Well, Sarah Palin is launching a multi-city tour, but is it to late for her to raise the money she would need to run for president? CNN's Paul Steinhauser will break it all down for us right after the break.

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KAYE: Time for a CNN Political Update. CNN deputy political director Paul Steinhauser joins me from Washington. Paul, breaking news on the Sarah Palin for president front. What's going on?

PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, Randi, remember 24 hours ago, you and I were talking whether she was maybe thinking more about running for the White House? Well, yes, here than breaking news that we had an hour ago. She is launching a national bus tour. It's going to kick off right here in Washington, D.C., this Sunday, during the Memorial Day celebrations. If you go to her Web site, Sarah PAC, you'll see it's called a One Nation Tour. And our Peter Hamby, our political reporter, broke this story. It's going to start in Washington, go up the East Coast, hit a lot of those historic sites.

And Randi, this is just the latest of a lot of hints from her. Remember, just a couple days ago she still had fire in her belly when it came to running for the White House? We've confirmed that she's rehired two political advisers. Also we learned and confirmed she launched that pro-Palin movie which is going to premiere, where else, Iowa next month.

And there's also reports that she's buying a house in Arizona. Why that is important? Well, you don't have to be Rand McNally to realize it's easier to campaign across the U.S. from Arizona than Alaska. So, a lot of hints that she's thinking of running for the White House a little more than she was a couple of weeks ago, Randi.

KAYE: Yes, Arizona, a very strategic location, you might say. Tell me where she stands in the polls.

STEINHAUSER: Check this our. Brand-new poll out today from the Gallup Organization. This is of Republicans and independents who would probably vote in the Republican primaries. Look where she is, just about tied for first place with Mitt Romney. She's at 15 percent. And this is a national horse race poll for the Republican nomination.

That's the national picture among Republicans. But Randi, among all Americans, her approval - or her favorable ratings are a little bit lower than most other candidates. And in head-to-head with Barack Obama, with the president, she does not do so well.

I will say one thing about Sarah Palin, though. If she decides to run -- still a big if -- she could probably get in later than most because she's got that name recognition and probably raise money pretty easily. But again, a big if.

Randi, back to you.

KAYE: Yes, that is a big if, but we will continue to play with that if.

All right, Paul, thank you.

STEINHAUSER: You got it. Thank you.

KAYE: And CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Brooke Baldwin.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Randi. Thank you so much.