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Hillary Clinton Warns Pakistan on Terror; SWAT Team Kills Military Vet; Osama bin Laden Considered Deal With Pakistan; Pastor Settles Sex Lawsuits; Answers to Your Financial Questions

Aired May 27, 2011 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour, I'm Suzanne Malveaux. I want to get you up to speed.

The secretary of state is taking a blunt message to Pakistan today. Hillary Clinton told Pakistan to step up its fight against terrorism or American aid could dry up. Ties are strained over the secret U.S. raid that killed bin Laden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE: We seek to defeat violent extremism, end the conflict in Afghanistan, and ensure a secure, stable, democratic, prosperous future for Pakistan. And we expect to work closely with the government and the people of Pakistan to achieve those ends.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: A CIA forensics team will be heading to Pakistan soon. Pakistan will let experts scrub bin Laden's compound for evidence. The team will use sophisticated technology to look for anything hidden in the walls or ceilings, or items that are buried on the grounds.

In Joplin, Missouri, today, relatives of tornado victims can go to the morgue to identify loved ones. And Missouri's governor says that many of the 132 bodies are in such bad shape, that families are going to have to rely on a tattoo or other distinguishing marks. Other remains will wait for DNA analysis.

Now, just a short time ago, officials lowered the number of missing in Joplin to 156.

Tabitha Freeman has been trying to find her grandmother in Joplin for days now. Well, she wasn't able to get in touch with any of her relatives in the area, so Freeman drove to Joplin from her home in Oklahoma to try to get some answers. She ran into a CNN crew outside her grandmother's demolished home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TABITHA FREEMAN, LOOKING FOR GRANDMOTHER: I saw a lot of friends and family and everything here in Joplin. And it's just the not knowing. You know? I mean, I know a lot of people are missing loved ones.

JACQUI JERAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Earlier, I met neighbor Aaron Cole, who said he knows almost everyone on the block.

AARON COLE, NEIGHBOR: Yes, she is alive. Ms. Cook (ph), she got stuck in her basement door entryway there. She's all right, too. And I did know that Ms. Freeman, she did make it, too. She's in the hospital somewhere.

FREEMAN: OK. Well, that will make it easier to find her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: CNN found grandma Ellen Freeman at an Arkansas hospital, and she is doing OK. She had been transferred to three different hospitals in the chaos of that tornado.

President Obama arrived in Poland just a short time ago to wrap up his European trip. He flew there from the G-8 summit in France, and he and other leaders held talks today with the prime ministers of Tunisia and Egypt. But the G-8 did not come up with the cash to help the new democracies. They suggested that international lenders were ready with $20 billion in assistance, and another $20 billion could come through Gulf Arab states and other sources.

Well, a judge in Belgrade says that the former Bosnian Serb military commander can be extradited to The Hague to face war crimes charges. Ratko Mladic has until Monday to appeal. Serbia's president admits that the military was probably hiding him, but he told CNN International that that actually changed when he came into office two years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORIS TADIC, SERBIAN PRESIDENT: From the beginning of that process, I'm totally sure that people from the armed forces have been protecting him. But after that, he changed the people that were protecting him. And at the end of the day, I mean that he was protected by a very small group of the people from his family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Mladic is accused of ordering the massacre of 8,000 Muslim men and boys during the Bosnian Civil War.

Well, French investigators revealed today that Air France Flight 447 literally fell out of the sky. Recently recovered data recorders show that the horrifying seven-mile plunge took three-and-a-half minutes.

The recorders indicate speed sensors malfunctioned, setting off a chain of events that caused the plane to stall. Two hundred twenty- eight people died when the jet crashed into the Atlantic two years ago.

It was the final spacewalk of Endeavour's final flight. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're almost in position, but if you guys can give me 20 seconds --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Shuttle astronauts spent more than seven hours installing NASA's final contribution to the International Space Station, a 50-foot boom. The last shuttle flight this summer won't carry space station parts, just some food, water and daily supplies for the crew.

Now more on Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's visit to Pakistan. She is putting the country on notice -- do more to fight terrorism or risk losing U.S. aid. Clinton's trip is aimed at repairing relations between the United States and Pakistan.

And former president Pervez Musharraf, he talked about the strained relations on CNN's "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERVEZ MUSHARRAF, FMR. PAKISTANI PRESIDENT: There certainly is a trust deficit, but it has been persisting since the last one year. Not because of OBL alone, Osama alone. There were incidents of mistrust in the past, and therefore it led to the final culmination was this -- that there was total mistrust, and therefore Pakistan was not even told.

And as people take it, that it was a violation of Pakistan's sovereignty. So, therefore, it has led to a lot of -- more misunderstanding, I think, which is extremely detrimental to the cause of fighting against terror.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Want to bring in CNN's Stan Grant, who is in Islamabad.

And Stan, a couple of questions for you. I mean, clearly, I have covered President Bush when Musharraf was in power. There was a lot of tension between the countries back then. It seems as if it's gotten even worse at this point.

Bring us up to the point where -- how did we get here?

STAN GRANT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it really came to a head with the raid that killed Osama bin Laden, Suzanne. And I think using the troops without going through Pakistan first, without notifying Pakistan, is really what is at the heart of this current break.

You know, here, they are accusing the United States of violating Pakistan's sovereignty, and that was a message that the Pakistan president brought home again today to Hillary Clinton. But the secretary of state also had a message for Pakistan, and that is that she expects them to do a lot more, regardless of the current differences, to commit a lot more to going hard after the insurgency here, to being able to shut down this Pakistan-Afghanistan border, and aid the U.S. in its efforts to bring stability to Afghanistan and ultimately draw down the number of troops there.

Now, there is a lot of criticism within Pakistan towards the United States, a lot of anti-American feeling. And this is something that Secretary of State Clinton actually said to the Pakistanis, that they need to actually get their own house in order first.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: America cannot and should not solve Pakistan's problems. That's up to Pakistan. But in solving its problems, Pakistan should understand that anti-Americanism and conspiracy theories will not make problems disappear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRANT: Yes. And Suzanne, the big problem here is that most people say their problems actually begin with the United States, that the U.S. war in Afghanistan has brought a blow back here that's causing Pakistani lives -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Stan, how have the Pakistani officials responded to Secretary Clinton's visit? Do they seem to be open to some of her suggestions?

GRANT: Well, there's a difference between what is said publicly and what's said privately.

First of all, a lot of money is put into Pakistan, and a lot of money is needed. In fact, this is a very stretched operation here. The military is very stretched, there's a very deep-seated, very deep- rooted and coordinated militancy here who are able to strike wherever and whenever they want.

So, to go after it, they require a lot of money. And that has been really the lifeblood of this relationship, this transaction between the U.S. and Pakistan.

So, publicly, you will get these messages that, yes, they're committed to renewing this relationship and trying to do more, but there is a private side as well. And with so much pressure from the public here, who point to their own government and say, why are we doing the bidding of the United States when it only causes more problems for us here, when we are the ones who actually suffer from these attacks, and you often find both the military and the government here playing to those anti-American fears -- so once again, saying one thing on one hand to America, but another thing to a domestic audience -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: OK. Stan Grant.

Thank you very much, Stan. Here's your chance to "Talk Back" on one of the big stories of the day. Today, we are asking: Is it OK for a presidential candidate to avoid the media?

Carol Costello, here to explain if it's even possible.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: OK. Here's the premise. Let me lay this by you.

Are we getting to the point where Democratic candidates talk mostly to MSNBC and Republicans talk mostly to Fox News?

Former Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin told Fox that candidates should watch out when it comes to "the lamestream media."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH PALIN (R), FMR. VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's got to be the preparation on all the candidates' parts for those "gotchas." That's what the lamestream media is known for nowadays, is the "gotcha" trip-up questions, and you just have to be prepared for it and overcome it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: We don't know whether Palin is running yet, but all signs seem to point that way. She reportedly bought a house in Arizona, is hiring a new staff, and she's launching that nationwide bus tour.

Instead of doing interviews, Palin prefers to speak to the public through social media. And, says CNN senior political editor Mark Preston, from the safety of her perch as a paid contributor at Fox News. But Palin isn't the only one who prefers to answer questions in more friendly surroundings.

Not long ago, President Obama refused to do interviews with Fox. That didn't last. And Newt Gingrich wouldn't answer media questions at an event in New Hampshire.

But shouldn't any politician man up when it comes to the press? Shouldn't they be able to handle those "gotcha" moments?

So the "Talk Back" question today: Is it OK for a presidential candidate to avoid the media?

Facebook.com/CarolCNN. I'll read your comments later this hour.

MALVEAUX: OK. Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: Sure.

MALVEAUX: Here's a look at what's ahead "On the Rundown" this hour.

First, outrage over the police shooting of an Iraq war veteran. Police say they were justified in using lethal force.

And a megachurch leader vowed to fight sexual misconduct lawsuits against him, but now has quietly settled out of court.

Then, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in Pakistan. We're going to talk with Pakistan's ambassador to the United States.

And the man accused of orchestrating the slaughter of 8,000 Bosnian Muslim men and boys moves a step closer to trial.

Finally, a group of women in Saudi Arabia are fighting for the right to drive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We say a saying in Arabic (SPEAKING ARABIC), "The rain starts with a drop." So this thing is really a symbolic thing for us women, driving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: A police raid in Arizona ends in the shooting death of a husband, father, an Iraqi war veteran. And now an outraged community is demanding some answers.

Kara Finnstrom brings us that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is it right here on our left.

KARA FINNSTROM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It began the morning of May 5th, with a raid of four houses near Tucson, Arizona, where investigators suspected a violent drug smuggling operation was being run. Within minutes, it ended with a SWAT team killing now sparking community outrage.

Twenty-six-year-old Iraqi War veteran Jose Guerena, who investigators now say grabbed but never fired his semiautomatic rifle, was shot 22 times, with paramedics kept away while police say they secured the home. Also inside, his young son and wife, who called 911.

VANESSA GUERENA, JOSE GUERENA'S WIFE: I don't know what happen. He's bleeding.

FINNSTROM: Questions have since mounted about whether deadly force was justified and whether the Guerenas understood it was police, not invaders, storming their home.

GUERENA: I saw this guy, like, pointing me at the window. So I got scared and I got, like, "Please, don't shoot. I have a baby."

FINNSTROM: Now the sheriff's department has released this video on the crucial minutes when they say warnings were sent. The general counsel for the police union, Mike Storie, describes what SWAT team members say happened next.

MICHAEL STORIE, SWAT ATTORNEY: Guerena makes eye contact with these officers who are in gear that says "Police," the shield says "Police," their helmets say "Police." They have patches that say "Police." He makes eye contact with them, raises his weapon, and points it right at these officers.

FINNSTROM: Also just released, hundreds of pages of investigation documents which detail what officers say the they ultimately found inside the home -- body armor and a large number of weapons, but no huge cache of drugs or money.

Guerena family attorney Chris Scileppi released this statement in response, saying, "We just learned that the sheriff's department has released voluminous amounts of information in regard to this incident. We will review the documents and CDs and will make ourselves available for comment in the near future."

Guerena's wife says he was not involved with drug dealing. Scileppi says the sheriff's department has tried to defame Guerena and paints a different picture of a man with no criminal record who had worked for a mining company since leaving the Marine Corps five years ago and was a husband and a father of two.

(on camera): Sheriff officials say their internal investigation of those chaotic minutes that led to Guerena's death continues. Supporters of his family who have been critical of the department have announced plans for a march to the scene of the shooting on Memorial Day.

Kara Finnstrom for CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Deputies involved in this shooting remain on active duty while the investigation is under way.

Well, a genocide suspect may face justice. The man accused of ordering the massacre of thousands of men and boys could be heading to The Hague. A live report from a mass grave site in Bosnia.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: Got some breaking news here. Want to go to our Pentagon correspondent Chris Lawrence, who is learning some information that was coming from the bin Laden raid and potentially a deal that bin Laden had -- was trying to develop with the Pakistani government for protection.

What do we know about this, Chris?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Suzanne. A U.S. official is confirming that based on some of the materials that they pulled out of bin Laden's compound, al Qaeda was considering the possibility of approaching Pakistan with a deal. The deal would basically be we won't attack you, Pakistan, and in return, you would allow us to basically have safe harbor here in your country.

Now, the key to this though is that U.S. officials say there doesn't seem to be any evidence right now that Pakistani officials were actually approached with this deal. In other words, right now they believe it was an internal al Qaeda discussion about possibilities in which -- and directions in which the organization could go -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Chris, is there any concerns or questions that the Pentagon has now that potentially, if bin Laden or al Qaeda were thinking that such a deal is possible, that that sheds some light on just how close -- potentially close -- the Pakistani government was to al Qaeda, was to Osama bin Laden?

LAWRENCE: Well, you know, immediately in the aftermath of the raid on bin Laden's compound, U.S. officials came out publicly and said they believed that some elements of the Pakistani government were aware of bin Laden's being there at the compound. But the key has always been a who is that in the government, how many in the government, and having actual proof of that.

A very, very different line there. The defense secretary, Robert Gates, has said, look, right now it is a supposition. We assume that to be the case, but we don't have any direct proof. And right now, U.S. officials are still saying they don't have any evidence right now to show that senior leaders in Pakistan were aware that he was there at that compound.

But again, they're still going through all this, so this hasn't been the first thing that's come out of all this material, and it's likely not to be the last either.

MALVEAUX: So, just to be clear, Chris, U.S. officials believe that this never reached the level of those Pakistani government officials, this was just internal conversations that were happening with bin Laden, within al Qaeda, this potential deal?

LAWRENCE: Exactly, al Qaeda talking amongst themselves. Basically, Osama bin Laden communicating with his operations chief about the possibility of going to Pakistan and trying to cut some sort of deal whereby al Qaeda would be protected, their senior leaders would be protected in Pakistan, and in return, there would be sort of a hands-off policy on Pakistan, no attacks inside the country.

But again, that's the feeling right now, that there was no actual approach to Pakistani senior officials with this offer. But again, I've got to stress, you know, this was a ton of information that they hauled out of there. They're still in the process of going through a lot of this and trying to make decisions off of what they find and analyze.

MALVEAUX: Well, Chris, please let us know if you get more information. We should also let you know that we're going to be interviewing live Pakistan's ambassador to the United States after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: The so-called Arab Spring -- the anti-establishment movement is now hitting the road with women in Saudi Arabia demanding the right to drive. They are defying threats, beatings, even arrests.

Our Atika Shubert reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hands on the wheel, keys in the ignition, and the Black Eyed Peas' "I Gotta Feeling" plays as the rallying soundtrack for women to drive. A groundbreaking initiative organized on YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter to get women into the driver's seat in Saudi Arabia.

Hundreds of women have signed up to hit the road on June 17th, and Manal Al Sharif is one of them.

MANAL AL SHARIF, WOMEN 2 DRIVE: We are not against the law, we are not protesting, we are not doing anything that's breaking the law. We made this clear, and we are all Saudis who started this thing, and we love our country.

SHUBERT: The streets of Riyadh and Jeddah are full of cars driven exclusively by men. Strict segregation by sex means women can't travel without a male relative, and they can't take public transport. To get around, women hire expensive drivers or taxis.

It's a daily frustration for a single mother like Manal. She describes getting stuck after dark trying to make it home last month to her five-year-old son.

AL SHARIF: I had to walk in the streets for half an hour looking for a cab. I was harassed by every single car. Most of the cars passed by, they were harassing me because it was late at night, 9:00 PM, and I was walking alone.

And I kept calling my brother, his phone was off, to come pick me up. And I was crying in the streets. I'm a grownup woman, I'm a 32- year-old woman, a mother, and I was crying like a kid in the street because I couldn't find someone to pick me up to take me back home.

I would say, first of all, where is your -- put your left foot --

SHUBERT: So Manal and dozens of other women decided it was time to take the wheel. She and other women with international licenses are also offering driving lessons in Saudi's rural areas. Manal took this video of giving her first lesson. But this is only a small step on a long road. Women still do not have the right to vote in Saudi Arabia. Any woman wanting to travel, work, get an education, or even open a bank account, requires the permission of her husband, father, or other male guardian. Getting a driver's license is not enough, say women's rights activists.

DINA EL MAHMOUN, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL: The bigger problem is the other restrictions, the more severe restrictions on women's rights. And that's what will take much longer and a lot more sustained campaigning for -- to actually have any change on those.

SHUBERT: But Women 2 Drive says their push is a start. The initiative has already encouraged several women to drive on their own with no male guardians, uploading their stories onto Women 2 Drive's YouTube channel.

AL SHARIF: We have a saying in Arabic (SPEAKING ARABIC), "The rain starts with a drop." So, this thing is really a symbolic thing for us women, driving. Very basic need, very insignificant right for us. And we're -- I think this will encourage women to take action, to take lead in their lives.

SHUBERT: Now, Women 2 Drive is gathering signatures for a letter to Saudi's King Abdullah, informing him that, as of June 17th, women will be in the driver's seat.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Want to bring in CNN's Atika Shubert, who is in London.

Atika, first of all, that was an excellent report that you did. We are now learning information that the woman you featured in that report has been arrested in Saudi Arabia.

What do we know about that?

SHUBERT: That's right. In fact, just a few days after that report aired, Manal took to the streets of Khobar, and she started driving on her own. And she videotaped it, and she was actually with her brother, her male guardian, in the car when police stopped her and arrested her.

And then they held her for a few hours, and then at about 2:00 in the morning, the police showed up at her home again. And she is still in detention.

There have not been any charges brought against her. She's in there for an indefinite period.

Police haven't said when they're going to release her. And according to human rights activists, they say she's now being threatened with losing her job and custody of her 5-year-old boy.

So this is very severe punishment for what is really a very minor thing, and really just challenging her right to drive in the country. MALVEAUX: Atika, I understand that there is a campaign there, some Saudi men are launching a counter campaign to stop these women. What is that about?

SHUBERT: These are from hardliners. They're basically saying that any woman who is caught driving should be beaten. This is what some of the men are saying. And specifically with their headbands for their Saudi dress.

Now, I have to point out, however, that a lot of the supporters for women to drive, for this initiative for -- supporting women to drive, are actually men. And this is because a lot of men in Saudi Arabia are saying we don't want to drive around our wives and our mothers and sisters and daughters all day long. We should just give them the right to drive.

So, this is an issue that is dividing the country, not just by sex, but by belief and by custom.

MALVEAUX: Do we believe that this is actually going to lead to other rights for women, that they'll be able to gain rights on driving?

SHUBERT: Well, with the women that I've talked to, this is very clear. They feel that the right to drive is a very small thing. They still want the right to vote. They want to be able to travel freely, to open a bank account, without having to ask their husbands or male guardians.

So, for a lot of women, this is just a first step. But as you can see with Manal's example, it is a very, very difficult uphill battle just for the right to drive.

MALVEAUX: All right. Atika Shubert, thank you so much for that excellent report.

As we just reported a few minutes ago, a U.S. official is telling CNN that Osama bin Laden considered seeking a deal with Pakistan to protect al Qaeda leaders, and al Qaeda would refrain from attacking Pakistan in return.

I'm going to be talking with Pakistan's ambassador to the United States up next. We're going to ask him about this latest information.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: Repairing strained relations with Pakistan. That is the mission behind Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's meeting today with the Pakistani president. But Clinton is also pushing the country to do more to combat terrorism.

Joining us from Washington is Hussein Haqqani. He is the Pakistani ambassador to the United States.

Thank you very much, Mr. Ambassador, for joining us. I want to first talk about the breaking news that we had just moments ago. A U.S. official is now telling CNN that Osama bin Laden considered seeking a deal with Pakistan. Protect al Qaeda leaders, and then al Qaeda would refrain from attacking Pakistan. This is coming from documents recovered from the raid that killed bin Laden. Are you aware at all of this information or this potential deal?

HUSAIN HAQQANI, PAKISTANI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: I don't know why you are even asking that, Suzanne, because I also heard the report from your reporter, which said that the U.S. officials very clearly stated that this was one of Osama bin Laden's many fantasies that went nowhere. So --

MALVEAUX: We're asking you because potentially --

HAQQANI: We are not aware of it. With all due respect, Suzanne -- with all due respect, Suzanne, I mean, you can think of many things of wanting to do. So, can Osama bin Laden. The question is did he raise it with anyone? And the U.S. government clearly says that he did not. It was something that he and his associates were considering amongst themselves.

So, if we knew something about it, we would have done something about it long ago. It is very clear that Osama bin Laden was found in Pakistan. We are very pleased with the fact that he's no longer there. We would have liked it better if the Americans had work on eliminating him with our cooperation, but at the same time, we think that the outcome is positive and we need to work together to eliminate the remnants of Osama bin Laden's gang.

MALVEAUX: So, just to be clear, you're in agreement with U.S. officials who say it never got to the point, the level, where it reached anyone in the Pakistani government, a potential deal. Is that correct?

HAQQANI: With all due respect, I don't need to be in agreement with anything because there is nothing here. The U.S. government has not communicated this information to us. Some official is telling your reporter that they have found on his computer some plan of contact being the Pakistan government, which went nowhere.

So, we really are not in the picture, either a part of the plan or any attempted contacts because no contacts were made.

MALVEAUX: Secretary Clinton is delivering a blunt message to the Pakistani government. She is essentially saying that we need to cooperate better, United States and Pakistan, in terms of taking on terrorists, or the United States would be willing to withdraw Pakistani aid.

Is there any sense from your government that this is kind of a quid pro quo that has been set up that's almost threatening in a way?

HAQQANI: I don't think that Secretary Clinton said any of that. I think Secretary Clinton's message was that she has certain expectations of Pakistan, just as Pakistan has certain expectations of the United States. Pakistan has paid a huge price in fighting terrorists. 30,000 people have been killed in Pakistan as a result of terrorist actions. Many of our soldiers have died. Only two, three, four days ago, there was an attack on a Pakistani naval base where many of our people were killed. So, quite clearly we are as much victims of terrorism as we are a place where there are terrorists active.

U.S. and Pakistan want to work together. That's what Secretary Clinton told us. We have some disagreements on how we should work together, and that's what Secretary Clinton wanted to clear up. I think that both sides were a little shaken up by the incident of the 1st of May and 2nd of May when Osama bin Laden was eliminated. Americans are worried why was he Pakistan and they want to get to the bottom of it, and so do we.

On the other hand, the Pakistanis were a little alarmed that the U.S. decide to go it alone? So, we just need to reset the relationship and work out things in a manner in which both sides can work together. Pakistan has no interest in promoting or accepting terrorism because we are victims of terrorism ourselves.

MALVEAUX: Have you heard anything from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton from her trip that has eased the concern that you talk about, the alarm that you talk about, that it was done without Pakistan's prior approval?

HAQQANI: I think that Pakistan and the United States are working right now on creating a new this -- creating new terms of engagement in which we can work cooperatively. When the secretary of state says that there are expectations from Pakistan, we fully understand that.

At the same time, we want the secretary of state and other American officials to understand the circumstances which have made it difficult for us to do certain things. We have rampant anti- Americanism in Pakistan. The U.S. has an obligation to try and change that opinion. We can't do it ourselves alone. Our government wants to work together with the United States, but that doesn't mean that we have the responsibility of changing the minds of 180 million people all by ourselves.

At the same time, there are groups in Pakistan which have beliefs very similar to that of al Qaeda and certain other jihadist extremist groups --

MALVEAUX: Let me ask you this, Mr. Ambassador. I'm sorry, excuse me, but the Pakistani government, your government, has allowed the CIA to interview Bin Laden's wives, widows. You have also returned the stealth helicopter to the United States. And most recently, you've allowed CIA experts to search the bin Laden compound.

What would Pakistan like in terms of the United States in return?

HAQQANI: We would like American understanding of our ground situation. We would like the United States to realize that there are circumstances that have created the menace of terrorism in our country. Pakistan and the United States paired up to fight the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. A lot of jihadist extremists are offshoots of that period. We need a concerted effort inside Pakistan, an effort in which Pakistan's own economic, political problems are taken onboard. This can't be just based on specific actions -- in which we cooperate with the U.S. All the things that the U.S. specifically asks for in intelligence cooperation, military action, we are there to help the U.S.

But at the same time, the U.S. has to understand why it is that these people are in our country, where they came from, and how we can work together to remove the support network that enables them to operate in our country.

MALVEAUX: You know, former Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf spoke with CNN's Piers Morgan, and he said that -- he was critical of President Obama, accusing him of showing arrogance following this raid. Do you think that those comments now are helpful in trying to move this relationship forward in a positive way?

HAQQANI: Suzanne, President Musharraf is a voice from the past. He was never elected by the people of Pakistan. He is not a figure in contemporary Pakistani politics. Piers Morgan is welcome to interview him many times, but at the same time, he doesn't speak for Pakistan. And the people of Pakistan consider him a part of our history.

MALVEAUX: Final question here. There are some people who are questioning Pakistan's -- essentially telling the U.S. military to close military intelligence liaison centers in Qatar and Peshawar. Is there a reason for that? It would seem like those are very important intelligence centers, not only for the United States but for also Pakistan as well to work against terrorist organizations.

HAQQANI: Suzanne, we've done that with mutual understanding. So, it is not a unilateral action on the part of Pakistan. There are operational reasons for these that I can't go into, but the fact remains Pakistan and the United States continue to engage in robust intelligence cooperation. We want to improve the relationship between our militaries in terms of going after the terrorists.

But we also have a case here. And that case is that there is too much mistrust of Pakistan. Yes, there is a history to it and we understand, for example, under the Musharraf regime, there wasn't cooperation. But the democratic government of Pakistan has fully cooperated with the United States, and Secretary Clinton acknowledged that.

It is a process in which we need to overcome the burden of history, move forward. And so there will be certain occasions when we will be taking a step back. But there will be many occasions when we will move forward together to eliminate terrorism which is the common enemy of both the United States and Pakistan.

MALVEAUX: All right, Mr. Ambassador. Thank you so much for joining us here on CNN.

HAQQANI: Always a pleasure being with you, Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: OK. Thank you.

Well, he stood in his pulpit vowing before god and his congregation that he would fight sexual misconduct allegations. So, why has mega-church pastor Eddie Long settled with the young men who accused him? We'll talk to a journalist following the case.

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MALVEAUX: Last September, mega Church Pastor Bishop Eddie Long was accused of sexual misconduct by four young men. They had been members of the Youth Academy at Long's New Birth Missionary Baptist Church just outside of Atlanta.

The men claimed Long had coerced them into sexual relations and at the time New Birth Missionary had tens, thousands of members in his congregation from around the world. When the charges were leveled, this was Long's reaction from the pulpit.

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EDDIE LONG, NEW BIRTH MISSIONARY BAPTISH CHURCH: I am not going to try this case in the media. It will be tried in the court of justice. I am not a perfect man, but this thing I'm going to fight.

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MALVEAUX: So now the fight is over. The four men who filed lawsuits have all settled, though nobody is actually saying what the terms of this settlement are.

Tracy Brown is an editor at the "Atlanta Journal Constitution," she joins us now. Tracy, thank you very much. You've been covering this. Do we have any sense at all what is involved in this settlement?

TRACY BROWN, EDITOR, "ATLANTA JOURNAL CONSTITUTION": You mean in terms of dollar amount?

MALVEAUX: Dollar amount or any kind of deal.

BROWN: You know, actually, we don't. The terms of the settlement from all of the attorneys involved, they pretty much have released a general statement that says the case has been resolved. There will be no more details about the dollar amount. I mean, you know, about the dollar amount or the terms of the agreement.

MALVEAUX: Do we have any idea why it is that he actually settled?

BROWN: I think that probably -- I mean, it probably -- there may have been some things that he didn't want to come out if the case had gone to trial or it could be as simple as wanting, as they -- as his spokesperson has said, that they are ready to move on and this could be the quickest way for them to kind of resolve that. MALVEAUX: How would he pay for this settlement because clearly, he can't use church funds, for instance?

BROWN: It's unclear. I mean, I would think as most organizations, maybe he has some kind of insurance that would help pay for it. It may come out of his own personal finances. It's hard to say not knowing what the terms of the agreement is.

I mean, if it's some high dollar amount that, you know, of course would lead to some questions about where the money's going to come from. If it's a lower dollar amount he may be able to cover that himself. It is just hard to know.

MALVEAUX: We are looking at some cell phone pictures of Long released by the attorney for one of the defendants and the publicity surrounding the accusations. Do we know if it is actually affected church attendance? What is the situation like there for people who actually followed him and believed in him?

BROWN: From what we can tell from our own going to some of the services and the last few months as well as talking to current and former members, it appears that membership has dropped off some. His last service when he did Easter service was pretty big.

There were a lot of people - I mean, there was a big crowd. It was pretty much, you know, a full house. But that was also during the time where there was settlement talk and people expected for him probably to say something.

So that could be -- have a little bit to do with why there were so many people there that Sunday. But overall, yes, I think it would be fair to say his numbers have dropped.

MALVEAUX: How was it impacted the community? So many people, you know, this is a nationwide story, even a worldwide story. We've been paying attention to this in Atlanta. You know, what are people thinking now that this has ended this way?

BROWN: You know, I think it all depends on who you talk to. Of course, some members have expressed relief about it being over and stand behind him 100 percent. For other people, it was expected.

I mean, the settlement talks -- they've been in settlement talks for quite some time. So I think people were kind of expecting that something would happen soon. I think, again, his members are probably a little relieved and say now we can move on.

MALVEAUX: He's still preaching?

BROWN: Yes, he is still preaching. I think the question will be will he be there this Sunday and what this means now that the case has been settled. What this means for him and his church and his congregation and his ministry because it's not just about his ministry inside the church, but his ministry around the world.

MALVEAUX: It will be very interesting to see if he actually addresses it at the pulpit. Tracy Brown, thank you so much.

BROWN: Thank you for having me.

MALVEAUX: We're getting a lot of comments about today's "Talk Back" question. We asked, is it OK for a presidential candidate to avoid the media?

Rob says, no. The president is a public figure. If you're running for the office, get used to the media. Carol Costello's up next with more of your responses.

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CARMEN WONG ULRICH, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Time now for the Help Desk where we get answers to your financial questions. Joining me this hour, Manisha Thakor is a personal finance author and Doug Flynn is a certified financial planner and founder of Flynn.

Let's get right to it, guys. Leonard in the Virginia Beach, Virginia is asking us, what are the pros and cons of consolidating debt and what impact does this have on an individual's credit score? Manisha, good question.

MANISHA THAKOR, PERSONAL FINANCE EXPERT: So the pros are that by consolidating you can have in the short run a lower monthly payment. And you only have one bill so it can feel simpler and more manageable.

The cons are that that one monthly payment when you add up all the extra interest can often result in significantly higher costs to you overall and oftentimes when you consolidate you are moving to a secured loan situation.

Oftentimes people do this with credit cards not realizing that was unsecured debt. In terms of the effect on your credit score, consolidating has an effect on your credit report, which will have an effect on your credit score.

The best tool is that I've seen is the score estimator on bankrate.com where you can play around with different scenarios, put that consolidation in and you can see on your particular scenario what would happen.

ULRICH: And it helps to pay it down. Thanks, Manisha. OK, our next question from Jim in National City, California. Jim says, I'm age 65 and want to withdraw $20,000 from an IRA to purchase a car. Now how will that affect my income tax for the year? Doug, this is interesting.

DOUG FLYNN, CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER: Well, it's fully taxable so here's the situation where we always counsel everything that their IRA balances are not 100 percent of what they think they are.

So if you take out $20,000, you may only see in whatever bracket are you in somewhere of $11,000 to $16,000 of it where if you want a net $20,000, you need to pull out somewhere between $25,000 and $37,000 to net the 20.

So is that the best use of this? Is a $20,000 car that's going to take $37,000 out of your IRA the most effective use? You might look into low-interest financing and taking the distribution over time after taxes you may come out ahead.

You have to do the math but just be conscious of what it is going to cost.

ULRICH: Absolutely instead of borrowing from your future. Thank you guys so much. Now do you have a question that you want us to answer? Send us an e-mail any time to the cnnhelpdesk@cnn.com.

MALVEAUX: Now to your responses to today's "Talk Back" question. Carol, what are folks saying?

COSTELLO: I like these people today. I was surprised. The "Talk Back" question -- is it okay for presidential candidates to avoid the media.

This is from Johnny, "it is OK to avoid it, but not necessarily block certain media. After all, they do have to look out for themselves. It is also best for the media personalities to be fair in their approach to interviewees...these gotcha moments are not helpful to either side - most certainly not to us, your viewers."

This from Audra, "they can't pick and choose policies and world issues to govern, why should they be able to pick and choose what media to use? Is this still the United States of America?

This is from Bear, "if you can't handle simple questions, how can we expect you to handle al Qaeda or any other form of threat to our country?"

And this is from Adam, "of course, it is OK to avoid the media, but the candidate who chooses that strategy will remain just that -- a candidate."

Please continue the conversation, facebook.com/carolcnn and thanks as always for your comments.

MALVEAUX: They can't avoid us anyway, Carol. They got to answer our questions.

COSTELLO: It's our job. We have to hound them. You can't just ask them easy questions.

MALVEAUX: No way. All right, Carol, have a great weekend.

COSTELLO: You too.

MALVEAUX: All right, we'll have more after break.

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MALVEAUX: Just a few moments ago we got this great video from the Naval Academy graduation in Annapolis, Maryland.

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MALVEAUX (voice-over): More than 1,000 midshipmen throwing their hats into the air. It is part of the academy's graduation ceremony. Defense Secretary Robert Gates gave a very emotional commencement speech. Gates is set to retire at the end of June.

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MALVEAUX: CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Drew Griffin who's in for Ali Velshi. Drew.