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Bin Laden Considered Deal With Pakistan; CIA To Search OBL Hideout; Mladic Fit For Extradition; PayPal Sues Google; Employee Exposes Hospital To TB; Three Minutes And 30 Seconds To Death; Three Minutes and 30 Seconds to Death; Heart Disease Trial Abruptly Ends; The Need to Save; President Obama's European Trip; "Turning Point" in U.S.-Pakistan Ties

Aired May 27, 2011 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Suzanne.

And we begin this hour with breaking news from the files of Osama Bin Laden. Was the world's most wanted terrorist trying to cut a deal? Cut a deal with Pakistan? The deal you protect us, we won't attack you.

CNN Pentagon correspondent Chris Lawrence has details on this. And Chris, if true, if true, this certainly would seem damning for the Pakistani government to explain.

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Drew. And this is really coming out of that treasure trove of intelligence that that SEAL assault team pulled out of Osama Bin Laden's compound on the night that they killed him.

You know, what U.S. official is telling us is that they have seen communications between Osama Bin Laden and his operations commander laying out the possibility of approaching Pakistani officials with a deal. As you explained, basically saying we would not carry out any operations inside Pakistan, and in return, you would allow us, our senior leaders, to exist and live here in Pakistan without coming after us.

Now, the key here is that U.S. officials say, at this point they don't see any evidence that Al Qaeda actually presented this -- you know, this plan to Pakistani officials. Right now, all they have is that it appears to be an internal discussion.

GRIFFIN: Chris, CNN got immediate reaction from the Pakistani ambassador, just a few minutes ago as a matter of fact, Suzanne Malveaux interviewed the U.S. ambassador, let's listen to what he said about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUSAIN HAQQANI, PAKISTANI AMBASSADOR: You can think of many things of wanting to do them and so did Osama Bin Laden. Question is, did he raise it with anyone and the U.S. government clearly says that he did not, it was something that he and his associates were considering among themselves. So, if we knew something about it, we would have done something about it long ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: So, absolute denial there from the Pakistani government here, at least in the U.S.

Chris, any more details on to whom Osama Bin Laden may have been reaching out to in the Pakistani government or even a branch of that government?

LAWRENCE: Nothing specific right now. What this was was apparently a communication between Osama Bin Laden and his operations chief. Now, this is the role in Al Qaeda, sort of the liaison, the operations chief is the one who sort of reaches out to some of the operatives in the field. He would be sort of the point of contact.

But at this point, we don't have any information on exactly who they may have decided to try to approach. But again, you know, there was so much intelligence that was taken out of there, they're still in the process of going through that. So, this is what we know right now. It wasn't the first revelation to come out of that intelligence, probably won't be the last either.

GRIFFIN: Yes, and then Chris, you're reporting that the U.S. officials or investigators are going to be going back into that compound? That would be the first time since the raid, correct?

LAWRENCE: Yes, exactly. The SEALSs were in there, remember Drew, 40 minutes in the compound. Probably only half that time was spent actually, you know, searching it and going through it and they still came out with all of that material. Then the Pakistani government, their officials, went in and took some things out.

Now, what you're going to see is a CIA forensic team. So, think of sort of a CSI type investigation but on a much broader international scale in which they can go in and look for things that perhaps you would not see with the naked eye. You know, using perhaps infrared cameras to look behind walls to see if anything was embedded in the walls, anything was buried.

We know that Osama Bin Laden and the people who lived there burned a lot of their trash instead of taking it out. Well, the CIA may have the capability to even look at fragments to pull information off of things that were burned. There's a lot of things that maybe the naked eye won't see but say swabbing certain parts of the compound for DNA could help tell you who was there.

GRIFFIN: Yes, so -- I mean, to the layperson it did sound silly a month after the fact they are going back in there to look for even more evidence that the SEALs obviously missed in their haste to get out alive, but also that the Pakistani government didn't uncover. But what you're explaining to us is that there may be some scientific ways to produce even more evidence coming out of there.

LAWRENCE: Exactly. And the thing about intelligence is, you know, you get one piece of intelligence that may lead them in one direction, but then you get another piece of intelligence and that can either validate the first piece, or send them off in a different direction.

So, sometimes what they already have, they're already starting to go through that, looking at names, things like that, they may be able to pull some more information that either says, well, this particular name or this particular place is something we need to look at, or they may get something that says, you know, that's not worth looking at any more. So, the more they get, the more they can build on that intelligence that the SEALs pulled out of there.

GRIFFIN: Chris Lawrence at the Pentagon, thanks, Chris.

The secretary of state sees U.S.-Pakistani relations at a turning point, that's a quote, from Hillary Clinton. She and joint chiefs chairman Mike Mullen met face to face today with Pakistani leaders in the highest level U.S. visit since the Bin Laden take-down. Not many smiles in that room as you can imagine, nor in Clinton's solo news conference that she held afterward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE: Today, we discussed in even greater detail, cooperation to disrupt, dismantle and defeat Al Qaeda and to drive them from Pakistan and the region. We will do our part, and we look to the government of Pakistan to take decisive steps in the days ahead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: We also have a new poll we want to share with you. Only 16 percent of Americans have a favorable view of Pakistan, 81 percent unfavorable view. That number is five points higher than it was in 2009.

In Serbia, a judge has ruled former Bosnian Serb Commander Radco Mladic is fit enough to be extradited to the United Nations war crimes tribunal. The ruling comes after five doctors examined Mladic last night. The decision clears the way for him to face charges at The Hague for genocide and crimes against humanity. Mladic's son says his father needs to be sent to a hospital, not a courtroom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's spoken for the first time in many years. He's in very bad shape, his health is very deteriorated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: After hiding for more than 15 years, Mladic was arrested yesterday. He's currently in jail near Belgrade for overseeing Europe's worst massacre since World War II. Mladic is expected to appeal that ruling, he has until Monday.

Back in the U.S., PayPal suing Google over its digital wallet saying that Google stole PayPal's employees and its ideas. This comes on the same day Google unveiled its highly anticipated mobile payment system called the Google wallet. The lawsuit accuses Google and two former PayPal employees, who now work for Google, of using PayPal's trade secrets.

Before this, Google had been negotiating with PayPal to provide the payment system for Google's android app store. Google has not yet responded to this lawsuit.

In Atlanta, hundreds of patients and 100 employees at a prominent hospital have been exposed to tuberculosis. A hospital spokesman says a staff member at Emory University Hospital unintentionally exposed 680 patients to TB between November and February.

The hospital says the employee was unaware he had the infectious lung disease until he was diagnosed in April. The Georgia department of community health and the hospital began notified people this week, they're testing people who were exposed, so far nobody reporting any symptoms.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANIL MANGLA, GEORGIA DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY HEALTH: If people are concerned, get to your doctor, get to the local health department, get a test done, and see if it's positive or negative.

Reason for going to Emory was because none of the county health departments could accommodate me until next week due to the holiday and my employer basically didn't want me at work with this, and I can't say that I blame them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: All hospital employees are screened for TB each year but the hospital did not say whether the infected staff member had received that screening.

Just under four minutes, that is all it took for an air force plane to plummet from 38,000 feet to the Atlantic. Frightening details from an official report, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: This next story begins with the clock that's now appearing on your screen. Keep an eye on it, watch those seconds, minutes, tick by. Frightening details are emerging from the crash of air France flight 447 two years ago. According to an official French report, there was a failure of the plane's air speed sensors which led to a high-altitude stall.

In three minutes 30 seconds, it plummeted from 38,000 feet, slamming into the ocean at a speed of nearly 11,000 feet per minute. Throughout that brief time, the crew struggled with conflicting speed readings, so all 228 people on-board were killed.

Richard Quest has been reviewing the report by France's Bureau of Investigation and Analysis and joins us from London. Richard, a frightening scenario that was played out today in terms of this report. RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we now know, Drew, what actually happened and the sequence of events and how it played out, and I'm going to show you exactly. Flight 447 was in the air and moving across where it's some particularly cold weather. The pitot tubes at the front of the plane suddenly started to give -- they iced up and they gave incorrect readings. That led to the disengagement of the auto pilot and auto throttle, and various other systems in the cockpit.

What happened then is that the nose started to rise, and the plane's speed pled (ph) away. In fact, it went down to, according to some, well under 100 knots. Now, the significance of this is, at one particular point they did manage to rescue the plane, but still, the speed indicators were not necessarily accurate.

What happened then? The plane goes into a further increase of attack, and now we have a classic stall. And this, of course, is nothing to do with the engines, it's where the air flow over the wing becomes so disrupted because of the low speed that the plane literally has no momentum and it falls out of the sky.

The angle of attack was 45 degrees on the wing. The pitch of the aircraft was 16 degrees. What this means is that at that moment, and looking at the clock, we're still only 2:12 into this horror, for the next three minutes or so this plane falls out of the sky. And it continues to fall and it continues to fall in this configuration all the way to the ocean. It lands, it virtually belly-flops.

The core question that everybody is going to ask tonight is why did the pilot continue to keep the nose-up position? Why was the plane like that? Traditional classic theory says, in a stall, you push the nose down, you build the speed over the wings. That did not happen here, and if there are any questions that will probably never be answered, Drew, that is it.

Now, I'm sure aviation experts watching me tonight and to now will say, well, he's forgotten this and he's forgotten that, but I promise you, having read the report, the gist of it is, the plane fell out of the sky. Now, we've still got 15 second from what those passengers went through.

GRIFFIN: Yes, so all the time we are talking, those passengers were falling, and most likely from what I'm reading, knew it. Richard, what about the tubes? Have they been a problem in the past? And is there any information that Air France may have delayed maintenance, delayed replacing these tubes? Is there anything pointing towards the tubes themselves?

QUEST: Yes. We know that there were problems with the tubes, and we know that they were going to be replaced, and we know that there had been issues. But, Drew, you've got to separate -- you've got to separate the issue with the pitot tubes with the response of the -- of the cockpit crew. You know, losing your pitot tubes at altitude is something that -- it's not desirable, it's by no means acceptable, but it does happen, they do freeze up. The sensors in the cockpit -- they knew they'd lost their indicators. That's the point. They knew they had problems with it. They are known is why they continued with that profile of the aircraft.

GRIFFIN: Yes, just real quickly. I'm wondering, Air France, do they train their pilots to come out of these stalls by pointing the nose down, picking up the air speed?

QUEST: Well, you're talking about a high-altitude stall. The only thing I can tell you is both Airbus, Air France and a lot of other airlines have now very much put high-altitude stall procedures on the quick reference list, better training, and all those sort of areas. The high-altitude stall is now very much on the agenda.

GRIFFIN: Richard Quest, we thank you so much for that. Two years later finally learning what happened with this plane. Richard, thanks a lot.

Now a developing story concerning your health. We want to update you about a major clinical trial studying heart disease is ending more than a year early. Why? Because it appeared to be doing more harm than good.

The trial aimed to prove patients would have fewer heart attacks and strokes if they took niacin, a B vitamin, plus a statin drug. The opposite happened. The federally funded study looked at more than 3,400 high-risk patients.

Ultimately, this is about HDL, you know, the good cholesterol, versus LDL, bad cholesterol, which can clog arteries. Previous research showed heart attacks and strokes dropped when patients lowered their bad cholesterol with statin drugs.

But what would happen if you added to that equation by increasing the levels of good cholesterol with niacin? This trial was the next big advance. The thinking was if you keep bad cholesterol low and increase good cholesterol, the result would be fewer heart attacks and strokes.

One of the patients took the statin drug Zocor and the other half Zocor plus niacin. The result showed niacin failed to cut their risk of heart attacks and strokes. In fact, researchers discovered more patients taking both, Zocor and niacin, were having strokes.

So they put a stop to the five-year trial a year-and-a-half before its scheduled completion. The findings, a major setback to what had been a highly anticipated and promising study on heart disease, the leading cause of death right now in the U.S.

Vacation time just around the corner for a lot of us, but many Americans feel guilty about taking their earned time off? Up next, see how we compare to other countries. You'll probably be surprised. Maybe you won't be.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) GRIFFIN: It's summertime in the U.S., and this means many of you have made plans to travel. You take the precious two weeks your employer gives you, plan a fun vacation, right?

Well, a new study shows many of you have remorse about taking that earned time off compared to other countries like Spain, the U.K. and France. Well, America lags behind in the amount of vacation that's given to employees. That's the topic being debated in today's "YOUR MONEY."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: OK, Richard, I got a story specifically for you here because it is a real treat to have you here working as opposed to on one of those several vacations you take.

Americans are not savers, but we are workaholics, a survey from expedia.com shows not only do Americans get less vacation than everyone. They also don't seem to take the vacation they get.

Richard, what's going on with the rest of the world? Are they just lazy?

QUEST: No, stop that now. Reverse the question, Ali. What's wrong in the United States? You are arc archaic. It is primeval. It is medieval the way in which people get two weeks vacation and even then feel guilty about taking it.

Ask any CEO, do you want a workforce that is rested, engaged and focus. Then ask them how do you expect people to do that? If you let them have ten days vacation a year.

Yes, Ali, in this room behind me, everybody gets up to five weeks vacation including national holidays, paid. Don't do that! Don't do that.

VELSHI: My word, as you would say! That's smashing. You know what? I think it is time for us to just gang up on Christine because you're British. Christine and I are both Canadian. Again, rules in Canada very different, liberal in terms of vacation. So, Christine, explain yourself and your countrymen.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUISNESS CORRESPONDENT: Ali, as the token American on this panel, I'd like to say we love to work in this country. We really do, but there are some analyses - Richard, please.

There are some analyses of that same data that shows in some cases it's because people don't want to spend the money on a vacation. They could stay home and take the day off.

But they found that, you know, they really don't have the money to spend to go away so they might as well be working.

CHRYSTIA FREELAND, EDITOR, THOMSON REUTERS DIGITAL: The other thing for me that's interesting about Americans and leisure is that the rich work as hard or harder than the poor. It is not just about money, it is people at the very top are working some of the longest hours.

ROMANS: They love to work.

VELSHI: Richard, it seems like you're just lazy.

QUEST: Well, but there is something Presbyterian about it all. In America, you do feel that you have to earn your vacation and only after you've been there for good news knows how many years, and even then you're terrified that the boss might notice.

Look, one thing I've noticed having been to France and Italy and Spain where people denigrate their work ethic, but the fact is, their productivity is very high. They just don't do work for work sake.

So if they don't have to be in the office at 7:00 a.m. so it looks good to the boss and they go home at 6:00 because the work is finished and they don't feel obliged to make it just seem as if they're working every hour.

How many of us around this table now has answered an e-mail between the hours of 11:00 and midnight?

ROMANS: Ali's doing it right now.

FREELAND: Yes, of course!

VELSHI: All right, Richard, you win. We're all taking a vacation after this show is over.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Be sure to join Christine Romans for "YOUR BOTTOM LINE" Saturday morning at 9:30 Eastern and don't miss "YOUR MONEY" with Ali Velshi Saturday at 1:00 Eastern and also Sunday at a special time, 5 p.m. Eastern two hours later than usual.

Also we want you to join the conversation on our social media question today. A new poll shows only 57 percent of Americans use up all their vacation days.

So we want to know, do you take vacations and if you don't, why not? Post your comments on our blog, cnn.com/ali. You can also post on Ali's Facebook and his Twitter pages.

President Obama attended a two-day economic summit in France and is now in Poland where defense issues are expected to top the agenda. Ed Henry will tell us what the president has been able to accomplish. Ed's after the break. Hi, Ed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: President Barack Obama headed to Poland today after wrapping up two days of meetings in France with other leaders of the world's top economic powers.

Senior White House correspondent Ed Henry joins me from Warsaw, Poland, which is the last stop on this six-day tour. Ed, what's left?

ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting, he wants to reassure, as you were suggesting before the break, a key ally here in Poland, that the U.S. is going to help them out and work with them.

They're concerned about missile defense, for example, a plan that was developed in the Bush administration to put some sort of missile defense shield here in the region, protect Poland other key allies, against potentially Iranian nuclear weapons.

For example, Russia has not been on-board with that because they fear a shield like that could be used for offensive weapons against them right in their neighborhood. So Poland just wants to make sure that's worked out in a way favorable to them.

But the president interestingly wants something from Poland. He's about to have dinner with the leaders from Poland as well as other central eastern European countries and that is some help for Egypt and Tunisia. Why?

That's totally different region of the world, well, because Poland and these other countries in this region went through some wrenching changes after the fall of the Soviet Union, after the fall of the Berlin Wall, tough transitions to democracy.

And the president thinks maybe there's some lessons learned there to apply to the Arab world as well in the wake of this Arab spring that was also obviously a big topic at the G8 summit in France, Drew.

GRIFFIN: Let me ask you about that G8 summit. There was a lot of big news made in the U.S. here over the last few days. I didn't see a whole lot of big news made out of the G8. What did it accomplish?

HENRY: Well, that's always a good question. I think you put your finger right on it, Drew. It's often from covering a lot of these, it is a lot of talk and not a lot of action frankly. It's a lot of pledges about what we might do over the next five years, next 10 years.

I think in terms of something concrete that the White House would point to would be that the president and other key allies sort of rallied support to bring some economic aid to Egypt and Tunisia specifically.

And that can be helpful because as you know, Egypt, its economy was crushed in part because the tourism industry went south during the revolution. There were great things happening there but at the same time it crushed some of their industries.

People were out of work for a long time. They're still picking up the pieces now and so that is an important step. But at the end of the day, it's often a lot of talk at these summits and, frankly, not a lot of action, Drew.

GRIFFIN: Speaking of a lot of talk and not a lot of action, what about Gadhafi? Libya? I mean, what's the plan there? Is he getting more allies on board?

HENRY: Well, that is something where the White House thinks the president has gotten something concrete on the sidelines of the G8 summit yesterday.

He met with the Russian president Dmitry Medvedev. You'll remember that Russia when the U.N. Security Council debated whether or not to push forward with the military action in Libya and provide that mandate, Russia abstained. That was important. They were not supportive but they also did not block that military action, and they've been very skeptical of the continued U.S. allied action there in Libya.

Interesting shift yesterday. We're told by U.S. officials that in private yesterday, the Russian president told President Obama he's now on board with Gadhafi going. That's an important shift there, but again, there's talk. Where's the action? What is going to force him? He hasn't been forced out yet; he's been digging in.

What the president and his aides are pointing to now is some sort of political solution. Could Russia play a constructive role in finding some way to get Gadhafi out? Could they find exile for him someplace else, et cetera. We've heard this before, it's been a lot of talk. We haven't seen it completed. But the president through every stop on this European tour is saying it will take patience and persistence to finally force Gadhafi. Getting Russia on board now may be an important step forward, Drew.

GRIFFIN: So, everybody's on board except for one guy -- Gadhafi. Right?

HENRY: Yes. That's what they need, the key guy. He's not there. And military action alone has not done it. Now they need some political movement as well. Maybe Russia can help there.

GRIFFIN: Ed, thanks. When is the president coming back?

HENRY: He's coming back Saturday. Interesting, he started this trip in Ireland. Lot of Irish-Americans who may play a key role in the 2012 election. Probably a lot of Polish-Americans maybe he's trying to reach out to for a little bit of pride, maybe a little bit of turnout in 2012 as well. They never talk politics on these foreign trips, you know, but that may be a factor as well.

GRIFFIN: Ed, thanks a lot.

Well, Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerburg, a butcher? He is when it comes to his diet, so he says. Via Facebook, of course. That in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Let's get caught up on the latest development. Some stories you may have missed.

In Arizona, a decorated Marine killed in a flurry of bullets during a drug raid. Apparently he never fired a shot. The revelation comes from the Pima County Sheriff's Department which released its internal investigation Thursday. Jose Guerena died earlier this month inside his own home with his family nearby. Officers firing more than 70 shots when Guerena gestured at them, they say, with a semi-automatic rifle. Investigators allege Guerena, who served in Iraq, was involved in drug smuggling, strong-arm robberies and human smuggling. Police found nothing illegal inside his home.

Some signs of hope and recover from Joplin, Missouri today. The number of people missing from the massive tornado down from the 232 originally listed missing yesterday. Ninety people have been located and found alive. Missouri's deputy director of public safety says some new names will be added, though to the missing. Emergency management crews are working around the clock, we're told, to recover more victims.

We now know why an Air France flight plunged into the Atlantic Ocean two years ago. French investigators say pilots lost vital air speed data and plummeted 38,000 feet in under four minutes. Information retrieved from the plane's data recorder shows the pilots got conflicting air speeds from the plane's speed sensors. A report by France's Bureau of Investigation says the pilots slowed down the plane instead speeding it up, and that move caused the plane to roll before stalling and literally falling from the sky. Air France has replaced the speed sensors on its Airbus fleet since that accident.

Facebook's Mark Zuckerburg is taking his diet apparently into his own hands. Zuckerburg says he only eats meat from animals he kills himself. He calls it new, quote, "personal challenge." It may sound odd, extreme, but the 27-year-old billionaire says he eats a lot of healthier meat and as a result, has learned about sustainable farming and raising animals. Zuckerburg revealed his new goal on Facebook, posting "I just killed a pig and a goat."

The city has already banned Happy Meals. Now comes a push in San Francisco to ban circumcision? I'll talk to the man behind it next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: Want to show you some live scenes. This is in Poland now. Our president with the Polish president heading in -- oh -- just right now for a dinner. So, I hope they have a nice time, a good meal and a good talk tonight about all that Ed Henry was briefing us on as the president winds up his European trip. Hs last stop right there in Poland.

Moving on with the news now. Strange twist -- circumcision. It is one of the most routinely performed surgical procedures in the U.S. Some experts say removing the foreskin around the penis can help reduce the risks of cancer and AIDS. Others say there's no medical reason for it.

Well, now comes a controversial proposal. San Francisco. To make it illegal for anyone to circumcise a male under 18. As you can probably imagine, it's riled up some religious leaders. I'm joined now by the man who's pushing the ban, Lloyd Schofield. Also joining me, Rabbi Schmuly Boteach. First, Mr. Schofield, you don't have kids, right? I'm just wondering why are you pushing this ban?

LLOYD SCHOFIELD, "INTACTIVIST": Well, there's a reason for it and it's to protect the right for men to protect themselves. When they are old enough, if they want to become circumcised, they can do it for religious reasons, for personal reasons, however -- whatever they want to do.

We want to put the power of control of what is done to men back into their own hands. This is not a necessary surgery. It's up to the individual to choose. It's a human right to have intact genitals unless you choose otherwise.

GRIFFIN: And parents' rights don't count?

SCOFIELD: Sure, the parents' rights count. Parents are very well intended. There have -- most of them have the best interests of their children involved. Parents have not been given information, proper information, about the harm and problems caused by circumcision and the lack of benefits. And luckily they're catching on now and that's why the circumcision rate has dropped nationwide to below 33 percent.

And believe me -- a lot of Jews have abandoned the practice a long time ago. And that's why they've come up with an alternate ceremony, the Brit Shalom, which does connect them to their religion and cultural heritage.

GRIFFIN: Rabbi, you buy that?

RABBI SHMULEY BOTEACH: You know, I always believe that San Francisco is a live and let live city. I now see that it is a curious attachment to the male foreskin.

The medical benefits of circumcision are so evident as to be undeniable. First of all, it significantly reduces the transmission of STDs, especially HIV/AIDS. In fact, in Africa, it would be almost as effective as condoms were it to be widely practiced.

It also is excellent for a woman, reduces the risk of cervical cancer by up to 20 percent because the human papilloma virus actually can live under the foreskin and is transmitted during intercourse. Let alone all the other benefits. Many studies actually show that a circumcised penis is far more sexually sensitive than an uncircumcised one. This is nothing but an attempt by radical secularists to try to portray religion as bizarre and extreme and mutilating the genitals. You just heard Mr. Philip Schofield said.

GRIFFIN: Mr. Schofield --

(CROSSTALK)

GRIFFIN: Rabbi, if you could hold on one second?

BOTEACH: Yes, of course. GRIFFIN: Mr. Rabbi, thank you.

Mr. Schofield, I mean, tell you the truth, I just don't get it. What is the harm in a circumcision?

SCHOFIELD: The rabbi is talking as a doctor and he's not. He's a religious leader in a circumcision, a typical radical circumcision that's performed religiously and much more importantly, medically, today removes 50 percent of the foreskin of the male genitals.

First of all, the foreskin has to be ripped from the head of the penis. Then 50 percent of the skin on the penis is removed.

GRIFFIN: You know something, Mr. Schofield -- this sounds an awful lot like the debate on abortion. I'm wondering -- what's your stand on abortion? Should San Francisco ban abortions?

SCHOFIELD: We don't -- I'm just here to talk about circumcisions. So --

GRIFFIN: I know. But what's your take on that?

(CROSSTALK)

GRIFFIN: The religion's on the one side and the other guy describing this terrible, you know, procedure on the other side.

SCHOFIELD: I'd like to focus on the medical issues that the rabbi brought up and I encourage anybody to look on the Internet, check out these preliminary studies that do not reflect what he's saying whatsoever. They were all ended early because they actually increased the rate of HIV transmission to men and to their female partners and it was only based on female-to-male transmission, not the other way around.

And if women really want to be safe, they should move to Europe and the Baltic nations or even Israel, because they have much lower incidences of HIV and sexually transmitted diseases compared to the United States.

GRIFFIN: Guys, I appreciate this discussion. This is obviously a passionate interest to both of you. I'm just floored that San Francisco's going to vote on this. It is going to be interesting.

BOTEACH: I have had no opportunity to even respond.

GRIFFIN: Well, do you want to have one word? I give one more word, Rabbi, just to response.

BOTEACH: Yes, of course.

GRIFFIN: But let's try not to be too graphic.

BOTEACH: Well, the medical benefits of circumcision are absolutely

SCHOFIELD: You're talking about the medical benefits. You're a rabbi, not a doctor.

GRIFFIN: Mr. Schofield, I don't think you're a doctor either. So, let's -- Rabbi, you can have the last word here.

BOTEACH: Yes, the medical benefits of circumcision are so evident as to be absolutely undeniable. It can easily be accessed by Googling. The Center for Prevention of Disease. You can find some different studies.

The fact is that the foreskin contains something called Langerhans cells and that's what allows the HIV virus to be transmitted into the human body.

GRIFFIN: OK. You know what guys --

BOTEACH: That's why it is undeniable benefits. This is nothing but an extreme radical attack on religion.

GRIFFIN: Rabbi, thank you both very much. Mr. Schofield, thank you very much.

I think the bottom line here is you might want to ask your own doctor. But we'll see how this vote goes out and see whether or not this draws any attention at the polls. Thanks both of you guys, very passionate discussion on this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

GRIFFIN: OK. Well, few smiles, tough words. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in Pakistan. Did she help ease tensions with a key ally in the fight against the Taliban and al Qaeda? Right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: As we mentioned, a new development this hour that can further strain relations between the U.S. and Pakistan. A U.S. source says that Osama bin Laden considered seeking a deal with Pakistan to protect him and senior al Qaeda leaders. A source says, so far, no evidence surfaced indicating bin Laden ever discussed that plan with Pakistani officials. The information discovered from documents seized when bin Laden was killed earlier this month.

Pakistan's ambassador to the U.S. had this reaction just a short while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can think of many things of wanting to do them and so did Osama bin Laden. Question is: did he raise it with anyone and the U.S. government clearly says that he did not. It was something that he and his associates were considering amongst themselves. So, if we knew something about it, we would have done something about it long ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GRIFFIN: The issue of bin Laden hiding out in Pakistan was the backdrop to a brief visit there today by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Joint Chiefs chairman, Admiral Mike Mullen.

Stan Grant is in Islamabad with the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STAN GRANT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Frank and candid -- that was the description of these talks here between Hillary Clinton and the top leadership in Pakistan.

The secretary of state came here with a simple message: the United States puts a lot of money into Pakistan, billions of dollars every year, and wants more of a return on that investment. What they're looking for is for Pakistan to go even harder against the insurgents to break up any al Qaeda cells and to also clamp down on the Pakistan- Afghanistan border. All of that to aid the U.S. effort in Afghanistan as it looks to try to stabilize the country and draw down the number of troops.

On the Pakistan side, still, a lot of concerns about the secret raid that killed Osama bin Laden. Pakistan says that violated its sovereignty. It's looking for more intelligence sharing, more of a commitment to cooperation from the United States and more joint efforts in the future.

But at the same time, the government here is dealing with the rising tide of anti-Americanism. Many people pointing the finger at the United States and saying it's the U.S. presence in the region that's heightening the risks that Pakistanis face every day. They say that they are caught in the cross fire in the battle between the militants, the U.S., and the Pakistani military, and that thousands of Pakistanis have died as a result of that.

Hillary Clinton is acknowledging the Pakistan's sacrifice, but at the same time saying it is in the interests of both countries to get this relationship back on an even footing. She says if they are able to bring about stability here, that will help in Afghanistan and ultimately help with Pakistan's security as well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Stan Grant reporting from Islamabad.

Well, need an extra $10 million? Who doesn't, right? We're going to show you how you can win it and help save lives -- right after the break.

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GRIFFIN: Everyday on the show, we do a segment called "The Big I." It's about the big new ideas, innovations and solutions to big problems. And in today's "Big I," we want to talk about an organization solving some of the biggest problems in the world. This is the X Prize Foundation. And right now, they are tackling the environment, space flight, oil cleanup, and genetics, even how to get a robot to the moon. Here's how it works. X Prize offers millions of dollars in prize money to teams of competitors who come up with solutions to global problems. Well, now, they are designing a new competition involving a device that can diagnose a patient just as well as a panel of doctors.

Here to tell us all about it is the founder of the X Prize Foundation and friend of the show, Peter Diamandis.

Peter, you are in Los Angeles, right? And what is the competition about?

PETER DIAMANDIS, X PRIZE FOUNDATION: Well, it is great to be here. We are interested in challenging the teams around the world to use all of the exponential technologies that are coming online to empower each of us to become the CEO of our own health. And it's a two-part competition.

The first part is a $1 million prize, and a $1 million challenge that trustee, (INAUDIBLE), is putting up called the Digital Doctor which is a computer expert system that can turn any minimally trained person into a diagnostician.

And then there's the $10 million X Prize that we are developing in partnership with Qualcomm, we called it Tricoder X Prize in reference to the "Star Trek" device. The device is small, handheld. You can speak to it. It's got artificial intelligence. You can do a finger blood brick and you can cough on it, and it's got lab on the chip, A.I., on cloud. And imagine a device that can really tell you better than a group of 10 board-certified doctors what's wrong with you and what you should do.

GRIFFIN: Well, it sounds great. But I just want to make sure, but that does not exist yet, right?

DIAMANDIS: No, it doesn't. Parts and pieces exist. There are technologists at MIT and Harvard and Stanford and the world, and we're doing is putting out the very clear defined challenge and saying that the first team who can build and demonstrate this device really will win the $10 million. And Qualcomm is an amazing company that's transformed the cell phone industry, and this is one way to take those cell phone platforms and really create something that's new.

So, with Don Jones and Paul Jacobs, we're really creating a common vision and with their capital and our prize management, we'll get hundreds of teams around the world trying to build this technology.

GRIFFIN: I want to ask you about another prize you are trying to get won out there. This is the oil cleanup challenge, $1.4 million. Is it working? Getting -- the goal was to get the oil out of water and do it quickly.

DIAMANDIS: Yes, we're really excited about this. So, a year and a bit ago when the oil spill was going on, James Cameron just joined our board, a big ocean fan, and we were saying, what do we do in this? Francis Beland, who's an oceanographer, head of Prize development was talking with him and others and we said, let's create to reinvent how we clean up oil spill because the technology we've been using is the same equipment from 20 years from Exxon Valdez.

So, we put out the challenged. Wendy Schmidt, the head of the Schmidt Family Foundation, Eric Schmidt's wife, put up the capita. We named it in her honor.

We have 400 pre-registered teams. We whittle it down. Top 10 teams, we just announced, are going head-to-head this summer and the top three technologies that are demonstrated, Shell is taking them to the marketplace. So, we're going to go from complaining about a problem to actually bringing three technologies into the market in under 18 months, which we are very proud of.

GRIFFIN: Great. Great. Great, I hope they work. To learn more about the X Prize --

DIAMANDIS: I hope so.

GRIFFIN: Yes. Peter, thanks.

And I hope we don't need it. To learn more about the X Prize Foundation and check out all their competition, head to our blog. It's at CNN.com/Ali. We're going to also link you up with the X Prize's Facebook and Twitter pages.

Great group of folks there.

Well, how unsettled is the GOP presidential field? Two of the three people at the top of the national poll may not even run. Candy Crowley breaks down our latest poll, next.

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GRIFFIN: Now, for a CNN political update, Candy Crowley, the anchor of the "CNN's STATE OF THE UNION," joins me from Washington.

New polling, Candy, and it looks the best way to lead for the Republican race for president is not declare.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Is not running yet. This is the political version of the grass is always greener and who is not running? I like him.

And in today's poll, that would be Rudy Giuliani. Now, I will say that the former New York mayor has not said he is not running, so I guess that makes him vaguely in the race at any rate. So, he is now polling up there with Mitt Romney followed by Sarah Palin, who also may or may not get in. And then Ron Paul who is really a perennial favorite inside of a certain faction of the Republican Party.

Interestingly, let's just take Giuliani out of the race. Let's pretend he's not going to run and certainly, we have no indication that he will. And Romney picks up, you will see him at 19 points and Palin picking up a little at 15 percentage points and Ron Paul at 13 percentage points.

But basically, I think if I were going to take the big takeaway from this poll, we can call it is an unsettled poll.

In the end, the Republicans are not sure about anybody. They are not overly enthusiastic about anybody. But this kind of thing takes a while to shake down. Every time a party trying to get into power looks at the field, they go, oh, no, it can't be any of these guys. Eventually, they settle down, they pick one, and everybody gets enthusiastic.

Since we are on 2012, Mitt Romney, while not officially in the race, everyone assumed he would be, and he will be come next week. And what's interesting is that he's chosen to do this in New Hampshire. So, this is big announcement number two this year for the former governor of Massachusetts, next Massachusetts, to New Hampshire. He will make his announcement in New Hampshire, leaving a lot of people to believe that he is going to switch up from his 2004 campaign, when he played in both Iowa and New Hampshire. It looks like he will focus more heavily in New Hampshire this year -- Drew.

GRIFFIN: Candy, I'm just going to go off script. Why? Why would he just focus in New Hampshire, for those of us who don't study this stuff?

CROWLEY: Well, first of all, you always sort of lack for money. Second of all, Iowa is a very kind of convoluted -- the caucuses are convoluted. He spent a lot of time there and it just didn't pay off for him last time.

And if you focus on something, you can stop people in New Hampshire. New Hampshire and Iowa both are looked at very closely. And in New Hampshire, you make a big play there and you win, you are in it going into South Carolina.

GRIFFIN: OK. Candy Crowley, always great to see your show on Sunday, and we will again this week.

CROWLEY: Thanks, Drew.

GRIFFIN: Thanks a lot.

CROWLEY: All right. Thanks.