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Internal Discussion Between al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden Regarding Deal With Pakistan; Marine Killed in Drug Raid; Iraqi Vet Killed in Tornado; Bin Laden and Pakistan

Aired May 27, 2011 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: Our top story comes from the files of Osama bin Laden. A potential -- and I want to stress a "potential" -- overture to Pakistan -- you protect us, we won't attack you.

CNN Pentagon Correspondent Chris Lawrence has details.

Chris, what do we know about this? And I guess the real question is, how far did this go?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Right now, bottom line, Drew, is U.S. officials say they don't have any evidence that al Qaeda actually proposed this to Pakistani officials. In other words, right now all they have evidence of is an internal discussion among al Qaeda leadership, including Osama bin Laden.

How did they get this information? American agents have been poring over those documents that came out of Osama bin Laden's compound. And in going through some of these documents, they found communication between bin Laden and his operations chief in which they talked about possibly proposing a deal to Pakistan in which al Qaeda would agree not to attack Pakistan, Pakistan would agree to sort of look the other way and allow senior al Qaeda leaders to live there in Pakistan and base their operations there.

GRIFFIN: It's just even interesting that Osama bin Laden would consider this. Perhaps his level of comfort in Pakistan led him to believe that he could even consider this.

A Pakistani ambassador, Chris, strongly denies it, and he told Suzanne Malveaux right here on CNN about 90 minutes ago, look, there was no offer made. Let's listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can think of many things, of wanting to do them, and so do Osama bin Laden. The question is, did he raise it with anyone? And the U.S. government clearly says that he did not. It was something that he and his associates were considering amongst themselves. So if we knew something about it, we would have done something about it long ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: There is some movement on cooperation between these two governments, Chris. You're reporting that U.S. officials -- I guess CIA experts -- are going to go into the bin Laden compound for the first time since they took bin Laden out of there.

LAWRENCE: Exactly. Drew, think of this sort of like a CSI, a special forensic team that is going to try to go back into that compound and look for things that you necessarily wouldn't catch with the human eye.

The SEALs got out of there with a lot of stuff, but they were only in that compound for 40 minutes, and probably only spent half that time actually looking through the compound for intelligence information. The Pakistani officials then went into the compound. They took some things out as well.

Now the CIA is going to send these investigators in, perhaps with some different technology -- infrared cameras to look behind walls to see if anything was stashed there, perhaps ways to look at some of the papers or the things that were burned in the trash to see if they can pick out certain things and reconstruct certain things from those burns. Also, even just swabbing certain parts of the compound for DNA. If they are able to match that within a database, it could possibly tell you who was at the compound and who came to visit.

So, all of those things wouldn't necessarily be something a team would be able to look at and find with their naked eye, especially in 20 minutes in the middle of the night, but it's things that this forensic team may be able to pick up.

GRIFFIN: Chris, do you know the timing of this? Is this going to be happening now, weeks from now?

LAWRENCE: Don't know exact timing. We expect it to happen sometime within the week.

And when you look at the big picture, even though there has been a tremendous amount of tension between the U.S. and Pakistan and their intelligence agencies, especially after Pakistan revealed the identity of the Islamabad station chief, order that the U.S. military reduce its military trainers in Pakistan, but today, in Pakistan, a senior U.S. administration official said, look, we asked for access to bin Laden's wives, we got it. We asked to get our stealth helicopter back, they've given it back, it's back in the U.S. now. And now they're giving us access to bin Laden's compound itself.

So he says it at least shows there may be a willingness for Pakistan's intelligence service and the CIA to at least form some sort of working relationship going forward.

GRIFFIN: Chris Lawrence at the Pentagon.

Thanks, Chris.

Now to a war that predates the war on terror. I want to begin by saying hunting down drug smugglers, drug dealers, drug producers is dangerous, but being on the other end of a SWAT team drug raid, well, that's dangerous, too. Case in point, a 26-year-old Marine, a veteran who was gunned down in his home in Arizona under circumstances that you might find disturbing.

The Pima County Sheriff's Department suspected four homes in a suburb of Tucson were part of a smuggling operation. That's when it stormed the home of one of those, Jose Guerena and his wife Vanessa.

Deputies blared their sirens, yelled, "Police!" and banged on the door before kicking it in and opening fire. At first, they said Guerena fired at him. A report just released said Guerena gestured with a semiautomatic rifle, the safety was on, and he never got off a shot.

Officers fired more than 70 times, hit Guerena more than 20. Afterward, nothing illegal was found in that family's home.

The officers involved remain on active duty, and Jose Guerena's widow has hired a lawyer. She hasn't taken any legal action to date.

I want to get some insights from Sunny Hostin. She's a legal analyst from "In Session" our sister network on truTV.

Sunny, these Pima County deputies, they did have a search warrant, apparently announced their presence. Is that all they're required to do?

SUNNY HOSTIN, "IN SESSION," TRUTV: And that's what I was going to say, Drew. Yes, you need a search warrant, of course, to storm someone's home. Your home is a place of safety. The Fourth Amendment protects that home against unreasonable searches and seizures.

So, yes, they did have a warrant. You're supposed to knock and announce. And there's, in different states, depending on which state it is, there's a certain amount of time before you burst in. If all of those procedures were followed, yes, then the search warrant and the subsequent search is appropriate.

In this case, we don't know enough to say whether or not the search warrant was based on faulty information. Clearly, this Marine, with his young son and his wife in the home, was not the target of this investigation, and certainly it appears that the facts got mixed up.

But the police department isn't issuing a lot of this information, so we really don't know what went on. But we do know, Drew, that, of course, nothing was found here. This was an ex-Marine who served loyalty to his country, and he is now dead. His wife and two children, without a father.

GRIFFIN: Sunny, I don't know if you have been on these raids. I have been on some of these raids.

You know, the police show up, they are all dressed in their SWAT gear, they're pounding on the door, they're yelling and screaming. Sometimes it's hard to determine who they are or whether or not they are police. I imagine this soldier inside might have had some confusion going on.

HOSTIN: Certainly felt that he was under attack. And I have had the opportunity, Drew, to do a ride in and sit there with agents that did this sort of search. And it is very hectic, very confusing, very unsafe for people to be around. And so I can only imagine that he certainly was armed.

I am sure that he had the right to have this arm. And I am sure he felt that he was protecting his child and his wife.

What we have learned is that he told them to hide in the closet, and was at the very end of a very dark hallway. So you can only imagine what was going through his mind when this was transpiring.

GRIFFIN: So, Sunny, can the police just shoot him? They barge into his home, this guy obviously picked up a weapon he was legally entitled to have in his home. Do police have the ability to just kill him legally?

HOSTIN: Well, that's a tough question, and certainly when police are forced -- or faced rather with this type of situation, they do have the authority to protect themselves and to secure a situation. The fact that they -- I'm not saying that they lied, but the fact that they say that he fired on them, and he did not, and the safety, in fact, was on the weapon, leads me to believe that there was so much confusion going on, that perhaps someone thought that he was armed and ready to fire, and they fired on him.

Depending on what the facts of the situation are as we learn more about these events, it is quite possible that their actions will be found to have been legal.

GRIFFIN: All right, Sunny. That's a case we'll be following.

The other case that we are following, and certainly you're following, is this Casey Anthony murder trial going on in Florida. New headlines almost every day.

What is the latest down there?

HOSTIN: Well, today has been a very good day for the prosecution. One word: Simon Birch. Two words, actually.

He has been witness number 20. He is the person that has testified that he smelled death emanating from Casey Anthony's trunk, from her car.

This is very, very crucial to the prosecution, because they are claiming under their theory that Casey Anthony killed her daughter intentionally and then placed her body in the trunk of her car, and abandoned that car. So this is the first witness, Drew, that has testified to the smell of death in the car.

What is so very interesting about this witness is he has experience with the smell of death versus the smell of garbage, which is what the defense theory is, this wasn't death, this was garbage. This non- expert witness though has experience in those odors, and he is saying, no question about it, this was the odor of death.

A very, very important day for the prosecution. GRIFFIN: Good prosecutor, Sunny. You answered my question right away, did he have any experience with this? I appreciate it. Sunny Hostin, thanks a lot.

You can follow the Casey Anthony trial throughout the day on our sister network, HLN.

Well, an Iraqi war veteran, one of the victims pulled from the rubble of a Home Depot hit by that tornado in Joplin, Missouri. Ahead, you'll hear from his widow, who is frustrated with efforts to get his body released from the morgue.

We head live to Missouri, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Some families in Joplin, Missouri, still waiting to learn the fate of their loved ones. The missing list from Sunday's deadly twister is now down to 156 from 232 yesterday. Today, we learned at least 132 people are confirmed dead.

Our Casey Wian is live in Joplin.

With a story, Casey, of one family mourning, also frustrated with the process for identifying the dead.

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Drew. Imagine losing a husband, a father to one of the worst tornadoes in U.S. history. And then imagine that pain amplified by the fact you can't even bury your loved one.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WIAN (voice-over): Hours after the tornado struck Joplin, Missouri, we met a distraught 17-year-old Aundrea Osborn outside a demolished Home Depot.

AUNDREA OSBORN, TORNADO SURVIVOR: If my dad and my uncle are in there, and I just -- I'm hoping and praying to God they are OK.

WIAN (on camera): When was the last time you heard from them?

OSBORN: Before the tornado hit.

WIAN (voice-over): Her dad, Iraq war veteran Dennis Osborn, was shopping with a close family friend and apparently took refuge in the Home Depot when the tornado approached. Osborn and his wife, Steffanie, had just celebrated their 11th anniversary.

She waited outside Home Depot all day.

(on camera): I can't imagine what that wait must have been like.

STEFFANIE OSBORN, WIDOW OF TORNADO VICTIM: Torturous. And then leaving with nothing was really disappointing, really devastating.

WIAN (voice-over): Dennis and his friend's bodies were found inside the store rubble Tuesday.

S. OSBORN: I had people telling me that he was helping people to the back to the storm shelter, that, when he was found, he was found covering a body to protect him from debris. He was being a soldier. That's what he does. I just want him back.

WIAN: Dennis was preparing to leave for Germany for Army Reserve training next month.

S. OSBORN: God didn't take him in Iraq. So, why did he take him now?

WIAN: Adding to her trauma, Steffanie's home in the town of Seneca was flooded by a storm Monday night, her car destroyed. And now she can't even plan a funeral for her husband.

S. OSBORN: They are not releasing any bodies. They are telling us that they are having to do some investigation and possibly autopsies.

I mean, please let us have our spouses, our children. We need closure. And they need to be laid to peace. This needs to be over.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WIAN: Beginning today, some families are being allowed into the morgue to identify and begin the process of collecting the remains of their loved ones, but only if they can provide very, very specific identifying physical information such as a description of a tattoo.

For many of the other families though, the wait goes on as officials try to establish identification to 100 percent certainty, and also try to establish the cause of death -- Drew.

GRIFFIN: Casey, will this family be allowed to go into the morgue today?

WIAN: We don't know that. They have not received word as of yet that they will be allowed into the morgue. They are just waiting. They are getting some help they say though from the military to try to speed up the process. We're waiting to hear from them to see when they are actually going to be allowed to collect the remains of their loved one.

GRIFFIN: Casey, thanks a lot. Is it raining there, Casey? Is that what I'm seeing behind you?

WIAN: Not right now very hard, but you just missed, about five minutes ago, 10 minutes ago, a real flurry of a hailstorm, strong winds, hail just pelting us. We are not expecting any tornado activity as a result of this storm cell that's been moving through here, but it's just another example of the difficulty of the people who are going through the wreckage here are encountering. The weather has been bad at times, and we just had another example of it a few minutes ago -- Drew.

GRIFFIN: Just so heartbreaking to see. Thanks, Casey. Be sure to tune in tomorrow night as CNN shows you how in mere minutes, large portions of the city of Joplin, Missouri, were reduced to rubble. "A Twister's Fury: In the Path of Destruction" airs tomorrow at 8:00 Eastern, right here on CNN.

Another development happening in Missouri, one that is totally different. Jared Loughner has been moved to a facility in Missouri. We've had that confirmed now, a source here at CNN.

This is the man who was accused and is responsible for the shooting of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson, Arizona. A competency hearing. Now he's been moved to a federal facility in Missouri. I believe in Springfield, Missouri.

We'll have more on that as we get that news from our sources.

Up next, a young military widow turns tragedy into triumph. She is this week's CNN Hero.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: This Memorial Day Weekend is a time to remember our fallen heroes. But for thousands of widows across this country, every day is their Memorial Day.

Taryn Davis represents a new generation of them, young widows. She lost her husband at 21, built a sisterhood for those like her determined to turn the grief and loss into triumph and survival, and that is why she is this week's CNN Hero.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TARYN DAVIS, CNN HERO: My husband, Corporal Michael Davis, was killed in Baghdad, Iraq. You know, even four years later, people still don't really know how to react when you say, "Hi, I'm Taryn, and I am a widow."

After the funeral, I felt ostracized. Everybody liked to write off my grief due to my young age. They'd, like, say, "Well, at least you're young, you can get remarried."

I just wanted to talk about it with other widows, because they're not going to judge you for laughing, they're not going to tell you that I'm grieving wrong. I just wanted to create what I was searching for, and just hope that there were others there that could come and help me build it, too.

I'm Taryn Davis, and I invite a new generation of military widows to share their love, their sacrifice, and their survival.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Follow me, guys.

DAVIS: It's even (INAUDIBLE), because they step outside of that comfort zone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "His impact will continue to affect us all for the rest of our lives."

DAVIS: There are moments where they can all reflect, followed by that time where they feel like they're living life to the fullest.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My little sister wrote Taryn. She didn't know how to get me through the loss, and so she wanted me to find other sisters. From my first event, I went from feeling completely alone to not anymore at all.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You get up that high, you see the world a different way. And I think as widows, we see our life a different way when we land, too. So, these military widows, they've give me a life again.

DAVIS: They teach me so much and show me how far I've come, and to know one day another widow is going to come along and they're going to be the one that's changing that widow's life, I mean, that's pretty amazing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Pretty amazing indeed. Davis' organization has connected with nearly 800 widows through her online community and retreats.

And remember, every CNN Hero is chosen from people who tell us about them. To nominate someone you know who is making a big difference in your community, go to CNNHeroes.com.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

GRIFFIN: Now you're queuing way "Off the Radar," because they is way -- they don't have radars in space, do they?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: No, I don't think so.

GRIFFIN: No.

MYERS: I don't believe so. I wouldn't even think that the ISS would have a radar. I don't think there's any reason for it, but it could be cool if it had one. Then it could see that space junk coming, so that would be kind of neat.

Anyway, VLT -- it sounds like a veal, lettuce and tomato. BLT, obviously, bacon, lettuce and tomato. This is a very large telescope in the Atacama Desert in Chile. This is some of the coolest video you will see all day. I wish there was audio or something, some kind of music going on with this.

You can go on YouTube, type in "VLT," Atacama Desert, or whatever it is. I think it's called high-def time lapse.

GRIFFIN: What is that? MYERS: These are big time telescopes. That's why they are called VLT, very large telescopes -- in the Atacama Desert, 5,000 feet to the sky. So, there's not much atmosphere, there's no humidity, you don't have any cloud cover here, and big desert. It never rains here at all.

And they took this time lapse video of stars. And at times, you can go and look at this yourself, because it's about eight-minute time lapse, I can't show it all. But you can see the Milky Way Galaxy come by, look at that. Sometimes, you can see the Milky Way even if you get away from the space or the lights of the city and stuff like that.

But other than that, this is some cool, cool stuff, and we have found on YouTube and coming from NASA and all of that as well. But I have never seen video like this during the day where you can see some of the Milky Way Galaxy and the sun comes up, and it's all gone. But if you want to get on there and take a look at it, it's cool stuff.

GRIFFIN: Wow. That is V.C., very cool VTLs.

MYERS: VLT, very large telescope.

GRIFFIN: And we're going to be V right back after this.

MYERS: Very telescope large.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg a butcher? Well, he is when it comes to his diet. We'll have that story in a moment.

Just into CNN, Jared Lee Loughner has been moved to a federal hospital in Springfield, Missouri. He's expected to spend four months undergoing mental evaluations. This comes after a judge ruled Wednesday he is not competent to stand trial right now for the mass shooting that killed six people and wounded Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in January.

In Arizona, a decorated marine is killed in flurry of bullets during a drug raid. An internal investigation revealing he never fired a shot. In fact, his gun's safety mechanism was never unlocked. The Pima County Sheriff's Department released the details following an internal investigation.

Officers say Jose Guerena gestured at the SWAT team with a semi automatic rifle. The report says the SWAT team then unleashed 70 bullets, killing Guerena with his family nearby. Investigators alleged Guerena, who served in Iraq, was involved in drug smuggling, strong arm robberies and human smuggling. But police found nothing illegal inside his home.

Some signs of hope and recovery from Joplin, Missouri, today. The number of people missing from the tornado is down. Since yesterday, authorities and families were able to confirm at least 90 people on the missing list survived. But more than 150 people are still unaccounted for. Emergency management crews are working around the clock to recover more victims. The death toll at 132.

And we now know why an Air France flight plunged into the Atlantic Ocean two years ago. French investigators say pilots lost vital air speed data and plummeted 38,000 feet in under four minutes. Information retrieved from the plane's data recorder showing the pilots got conflicting air speeds from the plane's speed sensors.

A report by France's Bureau of Investigation says the pilots slowed down the plane instead of speeding it up. That moved caused the plane to roll before stalling and literally falling from the sky. Air France has replaced the speed sensors on its Airbus fleet since that accident.

Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg is taking his diet into his own hands. He says he only eats meat from the animals he kills himself. Zuckerberg revealed this goal on Facebook, posting, "I just killed a pig and a goat." It may sound odd and extreme, but the 27-year-old says he eats a lot healthier as a result and he doesn't take food for granted.

A few smiles, tough words. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in Pakistan, did she help to ease tensions with a key ally in the fight against the Taliban and al Qaeda? We'll find out after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: New information: Osama bin Laden at least considered seeking protection from Pakistan for himself and senior al Qaeda leaders.

And here to talk about it is Michael Holmes.

Just the fact that he thought he could talk about it with Pakistani officials is interesting to me.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: Exactly, no, it is. And, of course, this came after the raid, and they picked up all of the documents there at his house where he had been hiding out all of this time, and some of the documents seem to indicate that he'd been in touch with his own lieutenants to -- well, raise the idea of doing a deal with Pakistan. We won't attack Pakistan as long as they leave us alone.

An extraordinary idea, but there is no evidence that it actually went any further than that, that Pakistani officials knew about it, in fact, they say they didn't, of course, and the U.S. also is playing it down, just saying it was musings. But yes, extraordinary (INAUDIBLE).

GRIFFIN: Yes. Can these two countries get over this, Pakistan and the U.S.? I mean, here in the U.S., people are saying, look, we don't trust the Pakistan government, we don't want to give them anymore money. And the Pakistan government is saying, we don't trust the U.S. coming here to pull off the military raids.

HOLMES: Yes, you heard former Pakistani President Musharraf, what he called, he said it was an act of war to go in there and do it, and said that President Obama is being arrogant in his attitude towards Pakistan. And Hillary Clinton now being there was an attempt to sort of smooth it over, but she offered a bit of an olive branch in a way by saying we don't believe that senior people in the Pakistan administration knew that Osama bin Laden was there, but also saying that they need and the U.S. need to do more to battle the Islamist threat there.

One thing, I thought was interesting, too, is she did express frustration at the rampant anti-Americanism that does exist in Pakistan, and the fact that no one in Pakistan seems to realize that the U.S. is the biggest donor of aid to Pakistan. They have -- nobody there seems to realize it. It's the third biggest recipient.

GRIFFIN: I think that the Pakistan government realizes that, which is why they are over there shaking hands in the first place.

HOLMES: Absolutely. They need the U.S., they do. But, you know, this is frosty at the moment.

GRIFFIN: But we're not getting anywhere near close to the answer of whether or not anyone at any level of the Pakistan government knew OBL was there?

HOLMES: No, no, we're not. I mean, they got investigations going, and the U.S. has suspicions, but the ISI in particular, their secret -- their CIA, if you like, that they knew that they were active in hiding him all along and, in fact, active in hiding senior members of the Taliban as well who are living pretty fairly openly in Quetta, you know, which is in Pakistan.

There is suspicion that the ISI at some levels, and some people within the ISIA are involved, but not an official level, no.

GRIFFIN: I just -- point to that because you've been to Pakistan, right?

HOLMES: Yes.

GRIFFIN: They know everything about you.

HOLMES: They sure do.

GRIFFIN: They know what you had for dinner, where you're going.

HOLMES: From the minute you arrive, yes. Exactly.

GRIFFIN: So, it seems inconceivable.

HOLMES: It does seem inconceivable. But the ISI is a strange beast and they operated independently of the government and for years and years. And you got to remember, too, that the military is so all powerful as well. It's pretty much the situation they let the civilian government looked like it's running things. But the military is really behind it, and the ISI is running its own show, doing a lot of deals with a lot of these groups that are now blowing up Pakistanis. GRIFFIN: Complicated situation. Let me talk to you about this Air France crash. You know the speed sensors don't work, classic, the pilots went up instead of going down.

HOLMES: Yes. I guess the big question is why did they do that?

GRIFFIN: Right.

HOLMES: And the problem with these speed sensors, once they ice up, and that you're getting indications of speed, the temptation or the danger is either to fast or too slow, and then the plane obviously plummets. What happened here is it went like 13, 16 degree angle nose up, and then when the stall happened, basically, went to the ocean backwards. At that incredible rate of 11,000 feet a minute, took 3 1/2 minutes to go down.

GRIFFIN: So, out of the French investigation, there's no indication as to why the pilots did exactly what you were not supposed to do?

HOLMES: And you got to remember, too, this is the first report. There's probably going to be three of these reports. It's not going to be the end of the year until some sort of definitive or as definitive as it can be report.

At the moment, you don't want to leap and say it is pilot error. You don't want to leap and say, it's this or that. What we have here is data, and the data raises some questions. We are getting information, but it's not the final report. It's still a fair way to go, and they had something like 1,300 bits of information they got to go through out of these boxes.

GRIFFIN: Yes. I want to ask you just real quick about Yemen. That situation seems to be getting worse.

HOLMES: It does. What's happening at the moment is illustrating the tribal nature of Yemen. I mean, there's few countries more tribal than Yemen.

And what we've been seeing is outside of the capital, Sanaa. We saw a big tribe there in the one area about 35Ks outside of the capital clashing with the government forces, actually took over a few government buildings, including military buildings. And what does the government do, they have sent in fighter bombers. They've been bombing their own buildings because these guys are in there.

But what it shows now, you know, President Saleh, he has fought for 35 years and has done a pretty good job of navigating this complex tribal society, it's over. He's not doing it anymore. They've one by one turned against him. And it's just extraordinary that he's still there now, but he can't last for long.

GRIFFIN: And I guess the bigger question is, in Yemen, in Libya, in these tribal societies, without a strong man, quote-unquote, "ruler," is it governable at all?

HOLMES: Well, this is the problem we are seeing now. The opposition, if you want to call it that, that in itself is a very fractured little group of people with different ideas. And the big fear and Saleh himself has warned about this, if he goes, all these competing diverse interests are all going to say, well, we want to run it, we want to run it.

And al Qaeda is already there in the country. They can step in and have a role. The place could go the chaos very, very easily. Yemen is that kind of place. It's already the poorest country in the region, one of the poorest countries in the world.

GRIFFIN: Michael Holmes, when is your next vacation?

HOLMES: I'm going to a wedding in New York next week.

GRIFFIN: It figures that a foreigner would do that and I'm going to tell you why.

A new poll shows that 57 percent of Americans use their vacation days. It's ridiculous. Isn't that ridiculous?

HOLMES: That is ridiculous.

GRIFFIN: Coming up after the short break, we'll show you how far behind we are in the world when it comes to taking some time off.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: It is Friday, the Friday before Memorial Day. Now, if you are not going on vacation, you know you really should go on vacation and I'll tell you why.

Today's big breakdown where you can take time off. According to a new poll by "Reuters," 57 percent of Americans did not take all of their vacation time. Let's talk about why. We're going to check out the numbers.

From CareerBuilder.com, 25 percent say they can't afford to take time off. Twelve percent of you can't foot the bill for a trip out of town, so you just don't go.

So, when you add up these numbers, 37 percent of Americans won't take a vacation this year. That's more than a third of the people in this country.

Talking about how much vacation time we all get. According to the survey by Expedia.com, Americans get on average 18 days of vacation every year, and we only use 14 of them. And we aren't even close to the top of the list when it comes to the amount of time that we get off.

Let me show you what they do in the United Kingdom -- 28 days of vacation on average every year and twice as much here in the States. They use almost all of their vacation, and normally leaving only about three days leftover.

Seriously, if you want to really live, check out France -- 37 days of vacation every year. And France, on average, they use all but two of those days every year. So, that the moral of the story is: use your vacation time, and even if you are sitting on your keister while on your porch with a cold beverage, dog, your kids, go on vacation -- relax, take it easy. You'll feel better at work.

So, we want to know, do you take vacations? And if you don't, why not? Post your comments on our CNN.com/Ali site. You can also post on Ali's Facebook and Twitter pages.

Is Ali on vacation today? No, he is apparently working -- Ali.

Well, should parents behind on the child support payments have car tags revoked, passport suspended or cars impounded? Our Stream Team is going to tackle this topic right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: You know, states around the country have tried any number of creative ways to get parents who are behind in child support to pay up.

Illinois, for example, puts up this Web site which shows the worst offenders. Other states seize tax refunds, report it to the credit bureau, or refuse hunting or fishing licenses.

But some of these enforcement laws affect the way parents get around. Some states are revoking car tags, impounding cars, or requesting that the U.S. State Department deny or suspend that parent's passport. So, while no one can deny the importance of obtaining child support payments, could some of these measures have an unintended negative effect? Do some of these contribute to a person losing their job and with it, their income, go too far?

We ask the question for today's Stream Team.

Lisa Bloom, an attorney and author of "Think: Straight Talk for Women: Stay Smart in a Dumb Down World." Hi, Lisa.

Robert James is the DeKalb County, Georgia, district attorney.

And Glenn Sacks who is executive director of Fathers and Families.

And, District Attorney, let me begin with you. Your county is about to target late parents by having them lose their tags. Why have is you come up with this idea?

ROBERT JAMES, DEKALB COUNTY, GA, DIST. ATTY.: Well, we have a very serious problem, not just in DeKalb County, but throughout the state of Georgia and, frankly, throughout the nation. And that problem is parents not paying child support. If you look at the facts, we're not dealing with parents that are just a few days late.

In our instance, we are dealing with parents who haven't paid in as long as two years to never. And it's is time for that to stop and it's time for parents to support their children.

GRIFFIN: So, this is a last resort for those truly, truly dead beats. Let's try to hit them at the car?

JAMES: This is absolutely a last resort. We have gone through amnesty days. We've gone through hauling these people into court. We've gone through calling their homes, bringing them down, trying to set up payment plans, and they just absolutely will not pay.

And children need support.

GRIFFIN: Glenn, is that a good idea to go after their cars?

GLENN SACKS, FATHERS & FAMILIES: Well, I agree with Robert, let's look at the facts. The facts are very clear. Overwhelming majority of these parents are not deadbeat, they are dead broke.

Federal government's own research shows before the recession over 2/3 of the people behind on the child support earned poverty-level wages. That's before the recession.

During the recession, it's gotten far worse because courts and the child support enforcement agencies are very, very slow to give fathers and mothers who are behind on their child support downward modification. So, you have people who are forced to pay child support on an income that they haven't earned in a year, and when they can't afford it, then they get to be called deadbeats and publicly humiliated by programs like this.

And a program like this even for the people that, you know, they are trying their best, perhaps trying to work, trying to get jobs, whatever, you are taking away their transportation, making it even harder for them. You mentioned earlier --

GRIFFIN: Hold on. Lisa -- hold on. Lisa -- excuse me, sir.

Lisa, I can't believe that the people that the district attorney are going after are trying their best, but I want to ask you if you think that this is the right route, because potentially, you take away somebody's job. I mean, you take away somebody's car, you could take away their way to get to a job. So, they might pay in the future.

What's your thought on this?

LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: That's right. Look, children need love and support and attention, but they also need money. Children need shoes and food and tuition, and so child support is very important.

I support wage garnishments. I support tax liens. But I don't support this particular proposal, because it doesn't make sense to make it more difficult for a parent to get to work, and in most places in this country, you need a car to get to work.

We need to help them to get to work and help them earn an income and garnish the wages, pay them directly to the other parent. It seems to me that's a much more effective way of supporting their kids.

GRIFFIN: Mr. District Attorney, can you just -- without naming a name, give me an idea of the person you are going after and whether or not he fits into this category of somebody he's just really trying to find a job or get work, but he just can't because of the circumstances?

JAMES: Certainly. We have one parent in particular that is $104,000 behind, and that parent has never paid child support. We have offered that parent amnesty on three different -- during three different years. We have made phone calls. We have tried to work things out. We have hauled that parent into court. He is --

GRIFFIN: And does that parent have the ability to pay?

JAMES: Yes. Yet that parent can pay for gas in their car, which at this point unfortunately, if you have a SUV, it's up to $100 --

(CROSSTALK)

GRIFFIN: Hold on a second, sir. Let the district attorney talk and I'll let you respond after.

JAMES: It's $100 filling up. In Georgia, we have an extremely expensive ad valorem tax, that person can renew their tag and pay a lot of money. That person can do everything that they need. But when it comes to supporting the needs for their child, they refuse to do so.

And, frankly, you know, if you're not using the money from the employment to pay for your child, then I don't have an issue with perhaps interrupting or compromising that employment.

GRIFFIN: Glenn, let me just ask you, you can say what you want, but, hey, man, take a bus, pay up for your kid.

SACKS: The fact is that these guys can scrounge together money to fill their gas tanks doesn't mean that they have money, enough money to pay whatever the child support order is.

I'd ask this gentleman. He says he has a most wanted deadbeat parent list. I've been looking at those lists all over the country, the states and counties doing for years and years. You never find anybody on the list who's got a decent job. They are day laborers, construction workers, cashiers, roofers, who owe these fantastic sums of money and we are supposed to believe are these wealthy guys who ran out on the kids and now have the trophy wife and the Porsche.

There is no evidence that these guys do.

(CROSSTALK)

GRIFFIN: Well, wait a minute now. Wait a minute. They are plenty day laborers, roofers who are supporting their families, sir. I don't think that just because you are poor doesn't mean you cannot support the family.

BLOOM: I have to jump in -- because what about the single mom?

(CROSSTALK) GRIFFIN: Right, the single mom --

BLOOM: What about the mothers who are also working lower level jobs, and we are also supporting our families. You know, it doesn't matter if you are working as a cashier or laborer or whatever you are doing, you need to support your child, because ultimately if that child grows up in a one-parent house home with a very low income, they are not getting the support they're entitled to by both parents.

GRIFFIN: All right, guys. We got to leave there. Lisa Bloom, Robert James, Glenn Sacks -- thank you so much.

Interesting conversation. We probably will get a lot generated on the web and the social media about this conversation. Thanks guys.

JAMES: Thanks for having me.

GRIFFIN: Well, how do the Republicans feel about their current crop of candidates? And what is that crop by the way? Paul Steinhauser joins us with a brand new CNN poll. That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Brooke Baldwin -- Brooke.