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Mitt Romney Announces Presidential Campaign; Chris Christie Under Fire; Rihanna Video Depicts Murder; Mind of Mladic; Deadly E.Coli Outbreak; Anthony Jury Hears Interrogation; Lawyer Objects to "Busty" Paralegal

Aired June 02, 2011 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, my goodness. Somebody put it on YouTube now.

Wolf Blitzer, thank you. We will see you in another half-hour.

Now, watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Another Republican joins the race for president. Mitt Romney tells the country why this campaign will be different than his last. But will this new strategy work?

I'm Brooke Baldwin. The news is now.

(voice-over): Inside the mind of one of history's biggest villains. A former American diplomat will tell me about his private dinner with Ratko Mladic, including what the accused murderer did to a pig and what his clothes revealed.

Plus, she is the victim of domestic abuse, yet Rihanna is releasing another violent music video, and this one shows rape and murder. Now one critic is getting threats from her fans.

And Casey Anthony caught in a web of lies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All the people coming out there are going to crucify you for this because of all the lies that you have been telling us.

BALDWIN: We're hearing these private conversations between Anthony and investigators. And the grilling gets heated. We're on the case.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Hour two begins right now. Hi, everyone. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Want to begin with some live pictures. Here's what we're for -- I should say who is what we're waiting for, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie. Here's the news that's been made just in the last half-hour or so. We have learned that he has already reimbursed New Jersey taxpayers for those two helicopter trips he took Tuesday night, both to and from his son's high school baseball game -- a lot of news and a lot of criticism stemming from that on Tuesday night. I also want to quote something that his spokesperson has released to us, saying the governor -- quote -- "understands the sensitivity about this kind of thing and believes he owes it to the public to ensure that this is not a distraction."

As soon as we see the governor there in Denville, New Jersey, we will bring it to you live.

(MARKET UPDATE)

BALDWIN: And more news unfolding right now rapid fire -- let's go.

I want to begin with a devastating 24 hours for the folks there in western Massachusetts. Look at these pictures. They're cleaning up after twisters slammed across the state, killing four people, 40 injured.

One of the hardest-hit areas is the town of Springfield. There are reports of Damage from every corner of that city. In total here, 19 different municipalities in the state are reporting some kind of tornado damage. In fact, it's so bad, Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick has declared a state of emergency.

Phillip Garrido is expected to spend the rest of his life in jail. He was sentenced to 431 years to life in California today. Garrido pleaded guilty to kidnapping and keeping Jaycee Dugard kidnapped for 18 years. Nancy Garrido, his wife, was sentenced to 36 years to life in prison. Dugard was snatched out of her home back in 1991 when she was 11 years old.

Uncle Sam wants you to pay more attention to what is on your dinner plate by looking at their plate. Here it is. By the way, no sliver of sweets -- I looked. The Department of Agriculture unveiled the new plate icon that is replacing the food pyramid today.

About half of the plate is covered by fruits and veggies. Plus, there is a glass icon to indicate a dairy serving. First lady Michelle Obama helped launch the new design.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY: When it comes to eating, what's more useful than a plate? What's more simple that a plate? This is a quick, simple reminder for all of us to be more mindful of the foods that we're eating.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: A New Jersey teacher got schooled, so to speak, when she tried to pull a fast one on some elementary students. The employee reportedly told the students she knew Lady Gaga and that she had been performing after their statewide assessment tests.

But the teacher really doesn't know Gaga, instead asked an impersonator. When the impersonator failed to speak during a Skype session, students became, hmm, a little suspicious. And one Gaga fan called her out on a phony autographed photo. No word how the teacher will be punished by the school district.

And now there he is, live pictures of New Jersey Governor Chris Christie signing a bill. Here's why he is in Denville, New Jersey. Let me give you some perspective. He is there signing this bill that will require testing newborns for congenital heart defects.

But that room there is packed with people. You see all the flashes? Huge media presence, because, presumably, he will be addressing everyone about the fact that he and his wife, Mary Pat, hopped on a state helicopter Tuesday night to attend his son's high school baseball game. Let's listen in for just a moment.

OK. Obviously, we can't hear him because he's just signing and saying hello and shaking some hands. And now here he is, as if on cue, Governor Christie.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: First of all, the bill I just signed is an extraordinarily important one.

It's A3734. And it requires that pulse oximetry screening for congenital birth defects be done a minimum of 24 hours after birth on every newborn in New Jersey. Now, this has been something that both Assemblyman O'Donnell, Assemblywoman Wagner have been outspoken advocates, along with others in the legislature, but I want to Assemblyman O'Donnell in particular.

His leadership, his vocal leadership on this, both in public and with me personally, on how important this is and the lives that it will save helped to convince me that this was not only something I wanted to support, but that I wanted to sign publicly, so that health care providers and parents all across New Jersey will know that we're taking another step, requiring another step, so that parents can have as much information as they possibly can and health care providers can have as much information as we possibly can to be able to --

BALDWIN: Chris Christie there speaking at a hospital. We're going to take a quick break here.

We do expect him to make comments about his use of a state helicopter. And he, of course, will be taking some questions.

Let's get a break in. We will be right back with more Governor Chris Christie after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: OK. Here is New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, known for being physically austere, cost-cutting, speaking there in Denville, New Jersey.

Let's listen in.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

CHRISTIE: For the people here at Saint Clare's, I know you probably do have questions on pulse oximetry. We will wait for your question. We have to deal with the media first.

So --

QUESTION: Governor?

CHRISTIE: Sure.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

CHRISTIE: There should be no additional cost. And we're happy about that.

And the health care industry across the state has been enormously supportive of this initiative as well. They understand that folks like the American Heart Association, the New Jersey Chapter of the American Academy of Pediatrics all have been very supportive of the legislation that Assemblymen O'Donnell and Assemblywoman Wagner sponsored.

And this is going to something that is going to be of no additional cost to folks, but something that could wind up not only saving lives, but also making more efficient, less invasive treatments available quicker, and save money in the long run for our health care system, in addition to saving odds, which obviously is the paramount concern.

Have we exhausted the pulse oximetry questions? This is restricted to just people in the media now. Sorry about that, sir. I didn't see your media credentials, so we will ask --

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

CHRISTIE: Oh, you will have to go upstairs? OK.

Any other -- OK, so we're done with pulse oximetry? You sure?

All right, Matthau (ph)?

QUESTION: Governor (INAUDIBLE) pay for the use of the helicopter (OFF-MIKE) and then you changed your mind?

Can you explain what's going to happen now and why you decided to change your mind?

CHRISTIE: Well, first off, my initial reaction to not reimbursing was because I was told there is nothing to reimburse for.

And I have been told this from the beginning of my term as governor by Colonel Fuentes, that those helicopters are up in the air, required to be up in the air, not only for various assignments they have, but also because hours are needed to be logged on a regular, weekly basis by these pilots in order for them to keep their certifications.

And so my initial reaction was, the State Police have said there is no reason, there's no expense, any additional expense to the taxpayers, so there's nothing to reimburse.

But here's the bottom line, David. You know, I'm governor 24/7 every single day, and -- but I'm also a father. And the fact of the matter is that, sometimes, when you're governor, you do not control your schedule. And, so, if you want to try to do all the things that people want you to do as governor, and also be a father and try to make sure that you get to as many of the things for your kids that you want to be at, there are times when it is literally impossible to do that by car.

And two of those instances came up in the last week. And, so, the reason they are unexpected is that -- because you don't know, with my son, how long you are going to be in the state tournament. You win, you're in. You lose, you're out. So, you know, we have tried to balance me being governor and the demands on that with my responsibilities as a father.

And I'm always going to balance that as hard as I can towards my responsibilities as a dad, not just because I feel responsible for it, but also because I want to. And my son enjoys me being there, and I enjoy being there for him.

And so those things are going to end pretty soon between me and Andrew. He's going to leave for college in a little over a year. And then those things are going to be gone. And it's not a good enough excuse for me to just say, "Well, I was governor; you have to understand," because I will be a governor for a lot less of a time than I will be my -- be a father.

But I also understand that this is a really fun media story for all of you. I get it --

(LAUGHTER)

CHRISTIE: -- and -- and that you like to write about these things.

And so, the fact is that I've got a lot of important work to do. I've got a $54 billion pension underfunding I'm trying to solve, a $67 billion health insurance problem I'm trying to solve. And if me writing a check for 2,100 bucks and a $1,200 check from the state committee for these two helicopter rides will allow us to focus on the really important issues to the people of the state of New Jersey, then I'm willing to do it.

But I want to make sure that the public understands that I'm doing this because of the duty that I feel to them to have my attention and everybody else's attention focused 100 percent on the real problems of the state and not the political theater and media theater that people enjoy at times.

And so, Mary Pat and I wrote our check today and delivered it to the Treasurer's office, the State Committee wrote a check for the leg of the trip that was from Montvale to Princeton, and those things have been delivered to the Treasurer's office and I'm sure Andrew Aristoff (ph) scurried over to the bank immediately to endorse them and put them in there so we could add to the state police budget surplus.

QUESTION: Sir, you've been cutting back you have a budget loss, so don't you think it's a problem if these choppers are always up in the air?

CHRISTIE: No. It's what is required.

QUESTION: Isn't that a waste of fuel?

CHRISTIE: No, it's not. It's what's required.

First of all, sometimes they are on missions, sometimes they are transporting people for health purposes, and there are requirements for these pilots to log a certain number of hours for them to be certified. When they are really needed, you want them to be really ready.

I'll tell you this, I'm sure glad that John Corzine was glad they were really ready when he got in his accident and those folks were there on the Garden State Parkway, picked him up and medivaced him to Cooper Hospital and saved his life. I'm sure he wasn't lying there thinking, man, were they up in the air too long, did they have too many hours.

I mean, the fact of the matter is, the state police decide what it is that needs to be done for those folks to be certified, as do certain national standards, and the colonel of the state police orders that they be certified, as I think everyone would expect they would. If we need them for homeland security purposes, for medivac purposes, for law enforcement investigative purposes, you want them to be doing it. As somebody that rides in those helicopters sometimes, I want them to be certified, too. I don't want them to be halfway.

Matt?

BALDWIN: So you could hear Governor Chris Christie known a little bit for his sense of humor evoking it there, saying he's focused on real problems and not all this media theater and that this whole story about him taking the helicopter was just fun for the press.

He and his wife, Mary Pat, as he said, have now written, today, a check for $2,100 to reimburse the taxpayers of the New Jersey. And he said he was simply trying to balance his life both as governor and as a father. And there you have it.

Coming up next, Fareed Zakaria joins me live. I'll ask him about the depressing reports on the economy and how this will play into next year's election. Also, talk about his special coming up this weekend. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Fareed Zakaria, host of CNN's "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS,," editor-at-large for "Time" magazine, talking -- joining me live, talking about the economy and also how it relates to a big special we're releasing this weekend.

And, Fareed, good to see you, first and foremost.

FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": As always.

BALDWIN: I do want to begin with something that I read in the paper this morning. This from one of the articles in "The New York Times," it was one of the lead lines. And they wrote, no American president since Franklin Roosevelt has won a second term when the unemployment rate on election day topped 7.2 percent.

Fareed, you and I both know where we are right now. How does President Obama tackle that challenge?

ZAKARIA: It's his biggest challenge by far. It's also, more importantly, the country's biggest challenge. If you look at where the unemployment rate right now is, you know, in the 9 percent range, it is highly unlikely to get down to that level. At this point, it is barely creeping down.

We're creating 250,000 jobs a quarter, but that barely takes into account the new entrance into the job market. You know, every quarter there are new graduates, new young people looking for jobs. That 250,000 is just barely taking care of those people. That leaves the seven million people unemployed.

By the way, there is many more who have stopped looking and don't have part-time jobs. This is a huge crisis. Nobody really has a solution yet and nobody really seems to see this. We're all assuming that somehow growth is going to come back and this problem is going to solve itself, but it's not going to solve itself.

BALDWIN: You know, maybe one solution, and this is, of course, why we're talking to you and you're launching this big special this weekend, it's a point you make in the "Time" magazine article that I read that is out today, you mention the word "innovator," "innovation." You know, the president mentioned it 11 times in his State of the Union speech.

And before we talk the specifics here, it's a question you ask in this piece and I want to pose it to you. When we say innovation, it's sort of this nebulas, intangible word. So what does it to you, Fareed, what does it encompass?

ZAKARIA: Well, that's a great question, Brooke, because a lot of people think it just means nifty research going on in labs or Silicon Valley start-ups that have gee-whiz software. But actually, think about Apple. Apple is probably the most innovative company in America. It wins all of the awards, it gets all of the lists that are about innovation and tops them all.

Apple doesn't spend a lot on R&D. It doesn't file for a lot of patents. It spent less on research in 10 years than Microsoft spent in one year. So why is it so innovative?

Well, it's all about how a consumer uses technology. How our lives interact with entertainment and technology. So it's more about the business process, the consumer experience, and very often that's what innovation is.

Innovation is not, there's an example in our special where we talk about the sewing machine, which was regarded as an extraordinary innovation, but not because of the technology but because for the first time, it was machinery for women. That was the innovation, that you would sell machinery directly to a woman. Never done before.

BALDWIN: So then connect the dots for me. How do we then take our economy and our unemployment rate as is 9 percent and connect that with innovation and somehow go up, improve?

ZAKARIA: Well, it's a great question.

So one of the things you've got to ask yourself is what creates a climate of innovation? And here's the big debate, and we air the debate in the special. There are a lot of people who say you just need the private sector, you need small businesses, that government should create a regulatory tax climate that makes that more likely.

But then there are a lot of people, including Eric Schmidt, the CEO of Google, who says no, historically the federal government has been massively involved. It's been federal spending, military spending that built the Erie Canal, the interstate highway system, NASA that created the computer industry, the Defense Department that created the Internet.

And so he says, forget about us, forget about this theory. Look around the world and you'll see that China is doing it, South Korea is doing it. No, he says we need a lot more government focus to create the climate that fosters innovation and leads to hundreds of start-ups with potentially thousands and thousands of jobs.

BALDWIN: Innovation, according to Fareed Zakaria, the magical elixir -- that piqued my ears.

Want to remind everyone where they can catch your special. Mr. Zakaria, thank you very much, by the way. You can catch the "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" special, he's calling it "RESTORING THE AMERICAN DREAM: HOW TO INNOVATE," catch Sunday night 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific right here on CNN.

Now to this, to a controversy involving a music video, and let me tell you this controversy is escalating as I speak. You have pop singer Rihanna releasing this video depicting rape, depicting murder, even though she in real life is a victim in real life here of domestic violence. Well, now she's taking aim at critics, especially the Parent Television Council. Guys, take a look at this tweet here, "The music industry isn't exactly parents 'r' us." This is from Rihanna. "We have the freedom to make art, let us. It's your job to make sure they don't turn out like us."

Well, one high-profile member of that very council, parent council, says Rihanna fans are now lashing out at him, sending him disturbing messages. In fact, he just got a direct tweet from Rihanna about his appearance right here on this show on CNN. Here he is. We're going to speak with this man next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right. The truth of the matter is pop star Rihanna is known as much for being beaten by her ex-boyfriend Chris Brown as she is for her music. But now she's the one being accused of enticing young women to turn to violence in this new video, it's called "Man Down." And one of those critical of her video is Dan Isett, he's the director of the Public Policy for Parent Television Council.

And, Dan, I want to watch part of this together. This is, I believe, the part that's gotten you upset and critical of Rihanna. Quickly, if I can set it up here, this is the beginning of the video, before the music starts to play. Rihanna, she appears in a doorway watching a man walk away. Let's watch this together.

(VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Certainly poignant images, but a lot of criticism at that particular that image. Dan Isett, before I get into your criticism, I actually want to back into this and just first ask you and confirm. I understand you are getting death threats because of your criticism. Dan, s that true?

DAN ISETT, PUBLIC POLICY DIRECTOR, PARENT TELEVISION COUNCIL: There have been a few. People on the Internet tend to say things online that they may not actually say in real life, and there have been a few unfortunate and, frankly, disturbing and violent things said over Twitter and some other avenues directed towards me and other people that have spoken out about this. And I think that's unfortunate. And I certainly hope that people will take the message or the would-be message of this video to heart and think about what is actually being said here.

BALDWIN: I want to talk about the message in a minute, but we've been following your Twitter account. We've been following Rihanna's. Guys, let's get a shot of this. Get a shot of Rihanna's Twitter account because she has just tweeted this in a matter of minutes. "Guys, please stop making threats. Not cool. We love it. They don't. That is all. And the world keeps turning."

Presumably addressing you, Dan. Back to you, back to your reaction, what was your visceral reaction to this video? What do you take up with it? ISETT: Well, let's be really clear here. There is nothing funny about sexual assault. It's a horrible and tragic thing every single time it happens. That being said, cold-blooded murder is also equally tragic and unfortunate and doesn't need to happen.

What's happened here is that in this video that B.E.T. chose to put on their air a couple of nights ago, you see a cold-blooded, premeditated murder ostensibly as a reaction to a sexual assault. We don't know exactly the set-up. The song lyrics are not completely clear on that, although it can be assumed that that is what is being talked about here --

BALDWIN: We don't know for sure. We don't. I can't sit here and tell you what this video is about. I didn't write the lyrics. Rihanna wrote the lyrics. And I'd love to have Rihanna on. Rihanna, if you're watching, since she's been following you on Twitter, call me at CNN. Come and explain what you meant by this.

But I do want to play just a bit of the song itself, some of the lyrics. Let's just listen, and Dan, we'll talk on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RIHANNA, SINGER/SONGWRITER: (SINGING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Dan I read the lyrics of this song after watching the video. Clearly she talks about some kind of altercation. We saw the murder, woman expresses the remorse over pulling the trigger in the lyrics. Do you take issue with that message as well?

ISETT: Well, certainly not. What is at issue is how this is depicted. You have a cold-blooded murder that aired on B.E.T. against what appears to be against their own internal policy against airing material like that.

BALDWIN: But what about the issue, Dan, that this is music, this is art? She's free to express what she wants. We see violent images on television. How is a music video any different?

ISETT: There's no question that our media culture is saturated in violence. But to single out this thing doesn't make the rest of it OK. It simply says that this instance, in this context, is simply wrong. We can all agree that a cold-blooded murder, no matter what the circumstances may or may not be, is not something that needs to be encouraged or in any way represented. Unfortunately, B.E.T. is responsible for airing that material.

BALDWIN: Well, I do know that there has been a back-and-forth with you and Rihanna on Twitter. What has been her - been to reaction to you?

ISETT: I actually asked her about an hour before we went on air here if she had anything she wanted to say before I went on the air, knowing that I'd have access to your audience here. And all she did was respond with a link to the video itself.

So, rather than addressing these issues, rather than actually engage with people who are concerned about this, she turned it into an opportunity to, once again, promote herself. And I think we can do better than that. I think we have to do better than that.

BALDWIN: Let me read a statement from B.E.T. We just got this from B.E.T. networks. "B.E.T. has a comprehensive set of standards and guidelines that are applied to all of our conduct. The Rihanna "Man Down" video complied with these guidelines and was approved for air. At the same time, it is clear that the "Man Down" video has sparked a passionate dialogue." Good enough for you, Dan?

ISETT: Also, in other words, B.E.T.'s own standards and practices include the graphic depiction of cold-blood murder? Apparently it does. So, again, we have another issue with B.E.T. here. What exactly are their standards? Why won't they make those public? Why won't they tell us what they are comfortable airing and not airing. In this case, they obviously seem comfortable with it and obviously there are huge implications here.

BALDWIN: "Complied with our guidelines." Again, to quote B.E.T. Dan Isett, interesting conversation. Thank you.

ISETT: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Now to New Hampshire where Mitt Romney has announced that he is running for president. But another high-profile Republican is also in that same state today. Who could it be?

And Sarah Palin didn't exactly hold back in her criticism of the former Massachusetts governor. You're going to hear what she had to say, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: For "CNN Equals Politics" update, let's go to CNN chief political analyst, Gloria Borger live from Washington. Gloria, the big day. Mitt Romney, former Massachusetts governor, former presidential candidate. We saw him kicking off his campaign today in New Hampshire, throwing his hat in the ring for president for 2012. And you know, he seemed to stay clear of bashing other Republicans, so to speak, and went straight for President Obama.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: He did.

BALDWIN: And I presume just looking forward?

BORGER: Yes, he did. First of all, he decided to take on President Obama because, of course, Mitt Romney is now the frontrunner in the race. And when you're the frontrunner, you decide to take on the man you know who is going to be your opponent, Barack Obama.

And for a Republican to win, Republicans believe, in this next presidential campaign, you have to actually make the race about Barack Obama, which is what Mitt Romney was trying to do in his speech today. And so the speech was about Barack Obama. He said that the country gave him a chance, and he clearly tried to make the case that Barack Obama did not have the experience he needed to get the country out of the economic ditch that it is in.

He said, OK, we gave Barack Obama a chance. He failed. America's broken. I'm the man with the experience enough to be able to fix it. So, that's what you're going to hear from Mitt Romney on the trail.

BALDWIN: Okay. So, we had Mitt Romney in New Hampshire at this chili cook-off.

BORGER: Yep.

BALDWIN: Sarah Palin, I think if I'm correct, at a clam bake.

BORGER: Right! There you are.

BALDWIN: Thank you! And she had some criticism for Mitt Romney. Let's listen.

BORGER: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH PALIN, FORMER GOVERNOR OF ALASKA: Health care plan, in my opinion, any mandate coming from government is not a good thing. So, obviously -- and I'm not the only one to say so -- but there will be more of the explanation coming from former Governor Romney on his support for government mandates.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, Gloria, if Sarah Palin gets in, how does that change the race?

BORGER: Well, it's interesting. First of all, isn't it interesting that she calls it a coincidence, right, that she happens to be up in New Hampshire on her family vacation, which is of course not a family vacation. And as she ends up talking about mandates, which is clearly Mitt Romney's vulnerability. That was in his Massachusetts health care plan.

Now, if Sarah Palin gets in the race, however -- and by the way, Mitt Romney said welcome to New Hampshire, right? Glad to have you there. You know why? Because he would be happy to have her in this race. The reason Mitt Romney would be happy to have her in this race, according to aides, it kind of freezes the field. It would take all of the oxygen away from all of the other candidates who might threaten him, like, say, Tim Pawlenty or Jon Huntsman, and then they believe that Republicans would start looking for somebody who's electable. And they believe that when Republicans look at Mitt Romney versus Sarah Palin and look at her unfavorable ratings, that they will, of course, choose Mitt Romney.

So in an odd way, he's sort of saying, jump on in, Sarah Palin. We'll see.

BALDWIN: Interesting. Gloria Borger, thanks.

BORGER: Sure.

BALDWIN: Inside the minds of one of the history's biggest villains. Coming up next, a former American diplomat will tell me about his private meeting with Ratko Mladic, including what the accused murderer did to a pig and what his clothes revealed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Accused war criminal Ratko Mladic is to make his first appearance tomorrow. The International War Crimes court in the Netherlands. It's only been one week since the former Serbian general was finally apprehended after avoiding arrest for nearly 16 years. Mladic is charged with the murders of nearly 8,000 Muslim boys and men and the forced relocation of tens and thousands of others during the war in Bosnia.

I want to bring in former U.S. diplomat Christopher Hill. He is one of the very few Americans t actually meet this man, to meet Mladic face-to-face. Ambassador Hill helped to try to negotiate an end to the Bosnian war.

Mr. Hill, good to have you on. Take me back to the night that you met this man. It was September 1995. Correct me if I'm wrong, you were in a hunting lodge? Tell me why, who you were with, and what he was like.

CHRISTOPHER HILL, FORMER U.S. DIPLOMAT: That's right. First of all, I was with Richard Holbrooke, who's the head of our negotiating team. And we went up to this hunting lodge to meet with Mladic, and the whole subject was to try to get the Bosnian-Serb forces to cease and desist. That is move away from Sarajevo and lift the siege of Sarajevo.

So, we sat down with Milosevic, he looked at us, and he said "No, I can't do it. There's someone else you need to meet." And we said who's that, and he said Ratko Mladic. And I said where is he? And he said he's over in the next villa. So we called a little time out, huddled up and decided to go ahead and do it.

So out came Ratko Mladic wearing his field uniform and looking very, very grumpy at having brought into this diplomatic discussion.

BALDWIN: Let me stop you there. You mentioned his field uniform. I mean, according to some of your military contacts, he didn't do so well in the military academy. Why is he dressed in the military garb and what did that say to you about his image?

HILL: Well, first of all, this is a person who just considered himself God's gift to the Serb nation. He was obsessed with his image as someone who is protecting Serbia. And if you look at, you know, kind of the right-wing view in Serbia that's very sort of extremists view in Serbia. It's always that somehow you need these heroes to protect you against foreigners, mainly Muslims.

So he was - he considered himself sort of character from Serbia's mythology or even going back into the middle ages.

BALDWIN: And as this to quote you, "God's gift," this tough guy image, remind us of that famous incident where he is slaughtering this pig.

HILL: Well, that's right. It was just two months before that in July 1995 and he met with the Dutch commander and in the course of the discussion, he actually slaughtered a pig. He took out a knife and killed this pig and it was not so much to get ready for dinner that night.

It was rather to show that he's a very tough guy and no one should mess around with him. You recall the whole incident was when there was -- there were, you know, various skirmishes going on around this Muslim pocket.

This Bosniac pocket of land and Mladic ordered in his troops and completely collapsed the pocket, arrested all of the inhabitants there and sent the men scurrying for their lives across the forest, during which he had some 7,000 of them killed.

BALDWIN: You meet him in this lodge, this is before he was indicted.

HILL: Yes.

BALDWIN: And now tomorrow he's at The Hague, day one. If you could just hazard a guess, what will his defense be?

HILL: Well, it's going to be pretty tough to say, you know, I knew nothing. I don't know what this is about. He was definitely there and he was very much directing operations. But, of course, I think the prosecutors have him present in a number of areas where there were attacks against civilians.

You know, often the job of his forces would be to surround an area, not let the civilians leave while various paramilitary forces went in and essentially murdered the population. You know, killed people's cows, poisoned the wells, cut down the fruit trees, et cetera.

He was very much part and parcel of this campaign of what we now know as ethnic cleansing. So I'm going to be very interested in an argument to the effect that somehow he didn't know this was going on.

BALDWIN: Well, as we start to hear that argument, Ambassador Hill, will you come back on?

HILL: I would be happy to. This was a very, very good for international justice.

BALDWIN: Historic. Ambassador Christopher Hill, thank you so much.

A massive E. coli outbreak is growing. Hundreds are sick and more than a dozen people have already died. We'll tell you why it is considered such a rare strain and who's being accused of causing the outbreak. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: There are some new concerns today over the deadly E. coli outbreak sweeping Europe and now, Elizabeth Cohen, you're learning about three likely E. coli cases here in the United States. Tell me about those three.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, the CDC official I was on the phone with today said that there are likely cases in the United States. These are three folks who were recently traveling in Germany, came back to the U.S. and have now been diagnosed with hemolytic uremic syndrome, which is a kidney complication of E. coli.

They tested them and don't have the regular form of E. coli that they see and they were just in Germany and you can put two and two together and they've taken samples from these folks and they are on the way to the lab here to the CDC lab in Atlanta.

BALDWIN: So this strain, which has been called a super toxic strain, how is this different, this outbreak different from other we've reported on the past?

COHEN: You know, they are seeing more of these cases of kidney disease. That's the big, bad thing that you don't want to happen with his disease, this hemolytic uremic syndrome. It can shut down the kidneys, Brooke. It's a really horrible disease.

I mean, I've talked to mothers who have watched their children die. It's awful and they seemed to be seeing more of these cases, 499 cases in Europe. OK, so keep that number in your head nearly 500 cases in Europe.

In Japan, which was the largest E. coli outbreak ever in terms of number of people way bigger than the one in Europe, but even they just had 120 cases of hemolytic uremic syndrome. So this is a lot of cases for an outbreak this size and they don't know why it's happening.

BALDWIN: How concerned should Americans be now that we're hearing about three major scares?

COHEN: That's right. It sounds scary, but Americans really shouldn't be very concerned. I'll explain why. These three folks, these likely cases likely got it in Europe, which is where they were. There is no tainted food here. It is hardly ever spread person to person. It's very rare for it to be spread person to person. So these folks got it in Europe, they are sick here, but they're probably not going to give it to anybody else.

BALDWIN: OK. Frightening, though, nonetheless?

COHEN: Yes.

BALDWIN: Elizabeth, thanks.

COHEN: Thanks.

BALDWIN: Now this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Remember what I told you about all of those people coming out, they are going to crucify you for this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That is a private conversation between Casey Anthony and detectives and today their testimony could be a huge blow to her defense. You're going to hear more of those tapes. We'll tell you why, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: On the case here today in the trial of Casey Anthony, she's described today by detectives as a convincing liar. The man on the stand today in Anthony's murder trial, a Florida detective.

Now the jury heard a tape of the detective interviewing Anthony. This was one goes all the way back to 2008 when her 2-year- old daughter just went missing.

Sunny Hostin is on the case. Sunny, let's both you and I together let's just listen to a little bit of what the jury heard today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DETECTIVE YURI MELICH, ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: Everything you've told us is a lie, every single thing. And you can't keep sitting here telling us the same thing and getting constantly over and over and over again. And you're telling us that you've lied to us, that you've given us this misinformation. Everything you've told us. This needs to end.

CASEY ANTHONY: It's truthful that I have not seen my daughter. The last time that I saw her was on the 9th of June.

MELICH: And what happened to Caylee?

ANTHONY: I don't know. MELICH: Sure you do. Something happened to Caylee. I'm guessing something bad happened some time ago and you haven't seen her. So that part is true if you say you haven't seen her because she's somewhere else right now.

She's either in a dumpster right now, buried somewhere, she's out there somewhere and her rotten body is starting to decompose and what you're telling us - here's the problem goes, the longer this goes, the worse it's going to be for everyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Sunny Hostin, that was quite a back and forth there. So this detective we just heard from, he's today saying Casey Anthony is a liar.

SUNNY HOSTIN, LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR, "IN SESSION" ON TRUTV: No question about it. I mean, that certainly was the theme today, lies, lies and more lies and I will say this. I was shocked when I listened to that interview because she lied about things.

She didn't have to lie about and she lied about things to people that were to people trying to help her find her little girl and I think really that's such a big problem for this defense because in order for them to defend her, they have to put her on the witness stand.

And how is the jury, Brooke, going to believe her after hearing this web, very complex web of lies. One of the lies she seems to have clung on to is this lie about Zanny, the nanny. She clung on to that for over three years.

We only really learned an opening statement that she veered away from that lie and instead of saying that she was kidnapped by Zenaida Fernandez Gonzales. In fact, she really drowned in a pool. So really just such a complex, complex web of lies coming from the mouth of Casey Anthony.

BALDWIN: We're following it, you're following it. Case number two. OK, where to begin? A Chicago lawyer accusing a rival attorney of using a busty paralegal to distract the jury. Here's the picture of this paralegal. I've seen other pictures of her. You know, she's pretty, seems to be dressing professionally. What's your take on this one?

HOSTIN: You know, I don't even know what to say. I mean, for a lawyer to say that a paralegal cannot be seated at counsel table because she has breasts is just so sexist and beyond the pale, it's almost difficult to comment about it.

I will say this. It turns out that this paralegal is the lawyer's wife and so certainly he has taken offense to this. The judge has yet to rule on opposing counsel's motion, but I also found out that the judge -- that the motion is appearing in front of -- is a woman.

And so certainly I think this lawyer needs to just go back to doing his job and stop concentrating so much about the paralegal's breasts at the counsel table.

BALDWIN: Stop looking at her.

HOSTIN: Exactly.

BALDWIN: What a story. Sunny, thank you so much. Thank you for watching. I want to turn it over to my colleague up in Washington. You have Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM." Wolf, take it.