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Battling Arizona's Wildfire; Casey Anthony: A Mom's Murder Trial; Bringing Jobs Back to America

Aired June 08, 2011 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it is 2:00 p.m. in the East, and 95 degrees as we speak in Washington D.C. And if you live east of the Mississippi, you are not far from it. Half the country baking, records melting in weather more suited to August while Arizona burns, still at the mercy of the unstoppable fire.

You may remember yesterday I told you about the so-called Wallow Fire in the Apache National Forest is bigger than the city of Chicago. Well, in 24 hours it has burned another 240 square miles so now it is larger than the city of Los Angeles, the second biggest wildfire in the history of Arizona. Another 3,000 people have packed up and cleared out. Our affiliate, KNXV, reports Arizona Senator Jon Kyl and his wife are among them.

CNN's Jim Spellman is on the phone with me now from the town of Springerville.

Jim, more than 2,000 firefighters have been out there for days. Still, the fire is zero percent contained. Is it that fast and powerful, or are the crews focused on defending specific areas?

JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a little of both, Randi. The main problem they are facing right here are these winds, sustained 25-mile-an-hour winds with gusts up to 35 and 40-mile-an-hour winds.

With that kind of wind, it just moves so fast, can send the embers two, three miles away that starts spot fires. They just can't get a handle on it.

Still, like you said, zero percent contained, despite being out there 24 hours a day. But like you mentioned, right now, here in Springerville, and Eagar, the town right next door, they are working on doing what they call structure protection, protecting homes. They've got bulldozers out building trenches around the homes, but they're still really having a hard time getting any kind of handle on this -- Randi.

KAYE: And give me an idea, if you can, since you're there on the ground -- I mean, how far and wide this fire has moved since we spoke to you yesterday.

SPELLMAN: Well, it was about 10 miles away from the town yesterday. Today, less than three miles away, and that is within the range where embers can fly and start these fires. We are starting to see ash fall here. It has been smoky here for days, but we are starting to see ash fall here right in the center of Springerville. So, definitely too close for comfort to anybody here.

And it's spreading on all sides. Their effort is here on the north side, where there is populated areas, but is definitely growing fast. I mean, it grew 50 percent yesterday, from yesterday to this morning. So really going fast -- Randi.

KAYE: And are these mandatory evacuations that we're talking about as we see so many people have been packing up? I'm just curious, is anybody staying behind as some no doubt do even in situations as dangerous as this one?

SPELLMAN: Absolutely, people are still staying behind. One of the fire authorities here today just told us, look, people have to get out. But they don't have the resources to go and get everybody out of their house and go search people's houses.

They do everything they can to encourage people to leave, but we spoke with people just this morning that are staying. And you've got to think that they might regret their decision, as well as their own personal safety. The firefighters here stress that they can't have people in the way creating more problems for them as they try to fight the fire -- Randi.

KAYE: Yes. And I think we were talking about gusts of 35 miles an hour today in terms of the wind. Is that still the biggest enemy there?

SPELLMAN: It is indeed. And when the wind gusts get to about 35 miles per hour, in addition to adding more fuel to -- to increasing fire itself, it keeps the helicopters and the airplanes that are dropping fire retardant and water, it keeps them grounded, they can't operate in those kinds of conditions effectively. So they ground that fleet.

They have about 12, 13 helicopters up right now doing water drops along the front line. That's a big help. When the wind gusts above that, they lose that tool in their arsenal -- Randi.

KAYE: And last we talked with one of the incident commanders just a while ago, and she telling us -- she confirmed that about 10 buildings had been lost. But is that a testament do you think to the firefighters, or has that fire really avoided some of the more populated areas?

SPELLMAN: Right. Well, it's mostly gone through the Apache National Forest, of which there are a handful of sort of vacation cottages, cabin-type places. But it has avoided that.

But they really put a huge effort on that structure protection. So they have bulldozers out, they backfires, where they intentionally light fires to eliminate some of the fuel to try to create boundaries around it. They've put much more emphasis on that than they do an open field or something. So I would give them all the credit in the world for keeping that number low. And they are focused on keeping that number as low as possible as the fire approaches Springerville and Eagar -- Randi.

KAYE: All right, Jim. Appreciate the update for us. Stay safe, please, there in Springerville. Thank you.

SPELLMAN: You're welcome.

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAYE: Amtrak is suspending service across much of the Midwest today because of the flooding Missouri River. All along the river, dams are releasing record amounts of water, and the high river levels are putting stress on flood-controlled levees, including one in Iowa that's threatening to fail near the town of Hamburg.

State officials are scrambling to get pumps, sandbags and drinking water to a half-dozen counties along the river. Flooding is likely to continue through most of the summer.

Accused killer Joran van der Sloot is in a Lima, Peru, courtroom today. He's charged with first-degree murder in the death of 21-year- old Stephany Flores. Her body was found in his hotel room in May, you may recall, of last year.

Well, today, his lawyers will try to convince a judge to consider a lesser sentence, claiming it was a crime of passion and not premeditated. Peruvian authorities have yet to file formal charges against him. Van der Sloot is also the prime suspect in the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway in Aruba back in 2005.

President Obama's counterinsurgency strategy is only meeting limited success in Afghanistan. That is a sobering assessment of a two-year Senate Foreign Relations Committee investigation. The report says the billions of dollars in foreign aid to Afghanistan over the past decade may have been spent in vain because the country may not survive the U.S. troop withdrawal that is set to begin next month. The report also urges President Obama to rethink his overall war strategy.

Mr. Obama is scheduled to have a teleconference with Afghan president Hamid Karzai today. We'll have more on this story in just about 30 minutes in our "Globe Trekking" segment.

On the hard court in Dallas, chalk up a big win for the Mavericks. They evened their NBA championship finals at two games apiece, with an 86 to 83 win over the Miami Heat last night. The big man for the Mavericks was their big man, Dirk Nowitzki. Fighting through a sinus infection, he scored 10 of his 21 in the final period.

Game five, tomorrow night in Dallas. Don't miss it.

What does man's best friend have to do with one of the most publicized murder trials in years? We'll get you caught up on the Casey Anthony trial right after the break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: The 13th day of Casey Anthony's capital murder trial continues in Florida. Chloroform searches and cadaver dogs took over much of the testimony today.

"In Session" on truTV is covering this trial, and legal contributor Sunny Hostin joins us now for an update.

Sunny, first, if you can, just break down what we've learned over the last day or so about cadaver dog searches.

SUNNY HOSTIN, LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR, "IN SESSION": Wow, we've learned a lot, as has the jury, Randi.

We've learned about the training of cadaver dogs. Apparently, different substances are used so that they can learn how to detect human remains, decompositional odor.

We've also learned a lot about the reliability of these dogs. We've learned a lot about their handlers. Apparently, the dogs are only as good as their handlers, their best friends, who are often detectives in a police force.

So it has been really a learning experience for me and also for the jurors, certainly, about just the world of the cadaver dog.

KAYE: Of course the defense is trying to knock down whatever the prosecution witnesses have said about what the cadaver dogs alerted to in terms of the smell of death in the yard, or possibly in the trunk. I mean, I've done stories on these cadaver dogs, and they're not always right.

So how successful do you think that was? And how reliable are these dogs in general, do you find?

HOSTIN: You know, I think that the defense, Randi, has done a very good job of calling into question the reliability of these cadaver dogs. Remember, in this case, the cadaver dogs, two of them, alerted twice to the Anthony back yard, but little Caylee's remains were not found in the Anthony back yard. They were found very, very far from that back yard.

So the defense has made much of what they are calling a false alert, which isn't really a false alert, but certainly the alert did not lead to the finding of Caylee Anthony's remains.

KAYE: Yes. And we heard quite a bit about these chloroform computer searches. Just tell us what the significance of that was.

HOSTIN: Well, this certainly has been significant. We, today, had testimony from a specialist who testified that they have found searches for how to make chloroform on the Anthony computer.

This is very important to the prosecution's theory of the case, which is that Casey Anthony chloroformed her daughter before she Duct- taped her face, thus suffocating her. So, the fact that this "how to make chloroform" search was found in a deleted space on the computer is instrumental for this prosecution's theory.

KAYE: Yes, it sounds that way.

But my question is, as we watch this all go down, I mean, what do prosecutors really have here? I mean, they have certainly caught Casey Anthony in lies, and certainly she had some odd behavior following the disappearance of her daughter. But any conclusive evidence that Casey Anthony did this?

HOSTIN: Not yet. And that's the problem with this case for prosecutors, Randi.

You know I'm a former prosecutor myself. This is a death penalty case. The burden is very high. It's beyond a reasonable doubt.

It's an entirely circumstantial case, so no one is going to testify that they saw Casey Anthony murder Caylee Anthony. No one is going to testify that they saw Casey Anthony place Caylee Anthony in a trunk, or her remains in the forest.

And so this is going to be a difficult case for the prosecution, and the picture certainly is incomplete, even on day 13. They have yet to tie, in my view, Casey Anthony to the murder of Caylee Anthony.

KAYE: So, what, in the end, do you think, Sunny, will determine whether or not Casey Anthony takes the stand?

HOSTIN: Well, I think it's already predetermined. And while I could be wrong, the defense's opening statement I think makes it clear that Casey Anthony has to get on the witness stand.

The theory of this defense is that Caylee Anthony drowned in the family pool at the end, that George Anthony, who had been sexually abusing Casey Anthony, helped her cover up that death. So, there is no question, in my view, that Casey Anthony will take the stand.

We are learning that the prosecution's case may be over on June 17th. So Casey Anthony could testify the following week.

KAYE: All right. Sunny Hostin, thank you, as always.

And a quick reminder, our sister network, HLN, is your destination for complete coverage of the Casey Anthony trial. You can watch special coverage of the trial throughout the day on HLN.

So, sick of America's jobs heading overseas are you? What if I told you that we know a place that is paying higher salaries to bring jobs home? Yes, it's true. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Every great bowler knows that from time to time you have to adjust to lane conditions, and with the latest unemployment figures suggesting the economic recovery is going slow, at best, one Kentucky company is pinning its hopes for prosperity on bringing offshore jobs back home, even if it means paying higher wages.

Here is Tom Foreman, "Building up America."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There are 7,000 places you can bowl in America, and they buy almost 250,000 sets of bowling pins each year. So in Hopkinsville, one company is betting big on bringing bowling pin manufacturing back to the States.

At Ebonite, the CEO is Randy Schickert.

RANDY SCHICKERT, CEO, EBONITE INTERNATIONAL: It always happens the other way around, but we really felt that with moving the product here, we'd have much better control over our manufacturing, our quality, and really our cost structure.

FOREMAN: When Ebonite bought this factory last year, it was in Mexico, employing 27 people. And the labor was cheaper. But company officials believed they could move all the equipment here, apply the latest time and labor-saving techniques, and a dozen American workers could produce just as much.

SCHICKERT: And yes, we do pay them more than what they were making in Mexico, but our actual dollars of labor per pin is less here in Hopkinsville.

FOREMAN: The wood for these bowling pins comes primarily from Pennsylvania and Ohio, so the move cut shipping expenses. And by bringing the factory under closer supervision, they've also improved their ability to make sure each pin is precisely like the next one. That's critical.

PETE MOYER, BOWLING CENTER DIRECTOR, EBONITE: You can't have different reacting pins on different lanes in the same bowling center, because that brings an inconsistency in the scorability of the pins.

FOREMAN: Ebonite, which has long been a giant in the manufacture of bowling balls, expects to make 150,000 American-made pins in the new factory's first year. And they're aiming for five to six times as many down the line.

Tom Foreman, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: Well, Meredith Whitney is best known for correctly predicting problems at banking giant Citigroup a few years ago, but lately the outspoken financial analyst has been getting attention for another warning. This time, on the market for U.S. municipal bonds.

Her comments to the CBS network in December caused quite a bit of controversy. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEREDITH WHITNEY, FINANCIAL ANALYST: There is not a doubt in my mind that you will see a spate of municipal bond defaults.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many is a spate?

WHITNEY: You could see 50 sizeable defaults -- 50 to 100 sizeable defaults, more. This will amount to hundreds of billions of dollars worth of defaults.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: CNN's Poppy Harlow sat down with Whitney, and she talked to Poppy about that quote, as well as her feeling that the states are far more broke than anyone is letting on.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WHITNEY: Because what you have had is, look, the consumer has done -- corporates have done a great job of delevering, and corporates now are in a great position. Consumers are in the process of delevering.

The states have not delevered. In fact, state spending has grown over -- in excess of 35 percent what consumer spending has grown for the last decade. So people talk about reckless U.S. consumers. The states have been far more reckless.

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: Last year you predicted that hundreds of billions of defaults is what we'd see in muni bonds over the next five years. Did this evidence from this report support that theory more? Do you still believe that that's the case, hundreds of billions?

WHITNEY: I think the number is going to be really big. I think that was what it looked like to me at the time, and things have gotten worse.

I'm not saying that the number will get worse. It's just there is not a lot of optionality for these states. Too much leverage was put into the system that cannot support the leverage anymore. And as I say, everyone is going to take concessions.

And you have already seen restructuring on a lot of bonds. We're not calling them defaults now. But, effectively, when you get reprofiled, like they're trying to reprofile Greece, and you get turned down on a bond, that's a default. So, you know, I wish I could say something in the last year has made me change my tune on this, but it doesn't look any better at this point.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: And Whitney also told Poppy to look for home prices to drop even further and for banks to do mass layoffs.

Triple digits in parts of the country, and it is not even summer yet. How long will this heat last? Chad will join me next, and he'll have an answer for us, no doubt.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAYE: Hey, Chad, before I let you go, we're going to go "Off the Radar." We have a little -- some cool photos from NASA.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I do.

Remember yesterday we talked about this Soyuz thing getting shot up into space? There is a cosmonaut, an astronaut, and a Japanese astronaut up in the Soyuz space capsule going up to the ISS.

Well, on the way to the ISS, they took some pictures, some fantastic pictures, where you can see the shuttle sitting there docked. There is the top of the shuttle on the left, docked to the ISS. And here comes Soyuz.

It's going to come in, it's going to dock as well. The Soyuz is going to bring three new people to the ISS, and it's actually going to -- this is the cool part -- the Japanese astronaut is going to go and grow things. Going to grow cumbers and tomatoes, and he's not going to be able to eat them though, because they don't know what it's really going to be like growing in zero gravity.

KAYE: Yes.

MYERS: But they're going to bring them back down, test them, and see what it's like growing things up where -- it could be more sustainable. They don't have to eat all that frozen packaged MRE-like food. You know?

KAYE: Yes. But those pictures are so cool. I mean, we never get to see something like that.

MYERS: Yes, I know.

KAYE: Very cool.

MYERS: The shuttle is -- well, you get pictures from the shuttle --

KAYE: Yes, but not from this.

MYERS: -- but you never get to see the shuttle because they're there.

(CROSSTALK)

KAYE: Exactly, not that angle.

MYERS: Yes, right.

KAYE: All right, Chad. Thank you.

MYERS: You're welcome. KAYE: Coming up, we'll look at a major renovation of Russia's public toilets. Yes, this is important stuff. Is it really possible to make them bombproof? We'll find out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Time to catch you up on stories that you might have missed. Delta Airlines today announced it is increasing its free checked baggage allotment for U.S. military traveling on orders. This comes after a group of American soldiers returning from Afghanistan were charged almost $3,000 to check a fourth bag Monday. Delta says it was an issue of miscommunication. The incident sparked outrage online after servicemen spoke out about it. The soldiers say they were charged $200 per extra bag. Delta says it will now allow four free checked bags for military travelers up from three.

And in Germany, two more people have died from the E. coli outbreak. That raises the death toll now to 25. Most of the victims have been in Germany. The outbreak has sickened more than 2,600 people in all. The cause of the outbreak still has not been determined. Today, the European Union agreed to pay more than $23 million to farmers who have suffered losses due to the outbreak.

Not let up in the massive wildfires sweeping through Arizona's Apache National Forest. Fire officials warn that unless high winds die down and low humidity rises, the blaze could continue to spread. It's already burned 389,000 acres and nearly 6,000 residents have been evacuated from their homes. Records show it now the second-largest wildfire in the state's history.

Listen to this. In Russia, the unveiling of what officials are calling bomb-proof toilets. They are to be placed in public bathrooms in Moscow by the end of the year. The toilets have basins made from ultra-strong fibrous concrete and fittings made from a mixture of steel and reinforced plastic. They will also be heated. That should come in handy during those cold winters. The move follows a spate of deadly bomb attacks in recent years.

Have billions of dollars of your tax money gone down the drain in Afghanistan as a result of the stinging congressional investigation? Right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Over the past decade, the U.S. has spent billions of dollars on nation building projects in Afghanistan. Add to that the $10 billion spent monthly on fighting the war there. Now, a two-year congressional report says that at best, success has been limited.

So, here to talk about all of this is Michael Holmes. The report is really a stinging report.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Just going back to what you read there, $10 billion a month. And I don't think that a lot of people get their head around that of how much it is costing. KAYE: Ten billion! That is why the report could be so damaging.

HOLMES: That's right. This is from the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. They put out this report, which is stinging. It took them two years to do this. what they found is that the aid programs and the development programs that have been going on for years and years and years now have not always worked. And a lot of them are just not working. In fact, they are a waste of money.

I mean, you have heard the old clear and hold and build, and that is what the military always used to do. Go in, clear the area of the Taliban, hold the area, set up a good security system there, and then rebuild the infrastructure. Rebuild programs. Aid the people with the hope of winning hearts and minds.

But what this is report is saying is that a lot of the money is not being well spent. And you are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars.

KAYE: So, hat would happen if they weren't getting that money anymore which is what some think is the best idea?

HOLMES: Yes, that's right. Well, you see, the problem is this -- that ongoing, once the U.S. does draw down to troops, which is meant to start this year of course -- once that happens, you are talking about maintaining the programs. A lot of the programs, aid programs have been set up, are going to require maintenance. Now, when we are not there, they are probably going to run down. Then it is a waste of money in the beginning to even have them there and counterproductive, too, because the people benefiting from the programs no longer are, and that creates resentment as well.

KAYE: And another thing that came up is the question of these inflated salaries?

HOLMES: Yes, that is right. The danger being that -- and I have been to Afghanistan four times. I have seen this, too, where people are put on the payroll by us, by NATO, and work for the coalition in various, various jobs whether it is construction or whether it is aid programs or whatever. And they are paid sometimes two to three to four times what the Afghan salary would be for that type of job.

And again, this has created an unrealistic attitude, an unrealistic expectation of life and what life will be like. Because once we are gone again, those salaries are going to disappear. So, it has been counterproductive and again, expensive.

KAYE: Let's switch to America's other war. These two Iraqi citizens indicted on terrorism charges. Their first court appearance today was in Kentucky.

I mean, this is sort of a scary proposition, because they were allowed here, right, part of the refugees that are allowed to come into the country and then, boy, what a surprise.

HOLMES: Exactly. It is the first time that Iraqis are resettled here as well who have been in the troubled areas - there, you see one of them there.

Now, both of them are charged with conspiring to provide material support to terrorists in Iraq. We are talking about things like guns and missiles and the like.

What is interesting here, too, is that Alwan is charged with conspiring to kill American nationals abroad. Why? Because his fingerprint was literally found on a bomb that was going to be used against U.S. troops.

KAYE: But they didn't know that when he was -

HOLMES: They didn't know that when he is allowed in, so, OK. But he gets allowed in; they didn't know about it at the time.

But being charged with conspiring to kill Americans abroad raises a legal issue: is this is a war? Was he an enemy soldier? And if you start charging people who kill Americans in war, charging the other side, and that opens up a hornet's nest legally.

Now, the prosecution saying, well, he is actually an enemy terrorist. He was an insurgent, he was doing IEDs. That makes him not a soldier per se. But it is interesting legal argument, because if you have a war going on over there and people fight you in whatever way they do, are they terrorists or are they soldiers?

KAYE: Yes. It is interesting because I know they increased the controls on these refugees from Iraq coming in after the attempted Christmas day bombing, but I think thre's another 20,000 that are slated to arrive this year.

HOLMES: Well, keep it in perspective --

KAYE: Only two.

HOLMES: -- the vast majority of these people are deserving of entry.

KAYE: Absolutely.

HOLMES: I know dozens myself who are here and here for good reason there. This are the first two that are from Iraq who have been caught up and alleged to have been involved in this sort of thing, so you have to keep it in perspective, too. I mean, tthere are a lot of Iraqis in Iraq that we owe, too -

KAYE: Right. Oh, of course.

HOLMES: So, but yes. Very serious charges and very unusual charges, too.

KAYE: All right. Michael, thank you.

HOLMES: Good to see you.

KAYE: You, too. Well, we are all worried about security and privacy when it comes to the Internet. Facebook has made a change to their settings involving your pictures. We show you how to opt-out right after this quick break.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

KAYE: All right. So you have heard about this I'm sure today, the Facebook facial recognition story. Well, let me break it down for you right now.

About six months ago, Facebook rolled out its (INAUDIBLE) with this new face identification software. Here is how it works. Let's say you go on the trip and you take a ton of pictures. Well, you want your friends to see them on Facebook, so you upload them. In the past, if you wanted to identify someone in those pictures, you would tag on them in the picture. You click their face and pick them from a list of your friends.

And let me take a moment here to let you know just how many people tag pictures everyday on Facebook. Yes, there is the number. Check it out. According to Facebook, more than 100 million tags are made by users every single day, 100 million. Great feature, but it takes forever to go through each individual picture.

Well, this new facial recognition feature, Facebook can help to speed up theatprocess. Facebook uses a program to identify the people in your pictures and then make suggestions for the tags. So, say, if your husband is in the picture with you -- and he is also your friend on Facebook, you would hope -- well, the software would try to identify him and then ask you if you approve. You can either say yes if it is really your husband or no, if it is a some other person, a stranger, perhaps.

So what happened today? Well, today, Facebook activated that feature for all of its users, and that is the sticking point. You weren't given the option to opt-out before Facebook activated the feature. So, right now your Facebook account is set up to automatically allow this facial recognition software to be used on pictures that you upload to the social media Web site.

So, let me show you how to opt out just in case you decide to. OK. Here is my computer, right here on set with me. You just go to Accounts, and it is right there on the front. And then you go the privacy settings, and then there's a customized settings button and then if you scroll down - it's real easy, you go to things others share. And right here, it says suggest photos of me to friends, and there is an edit settings button. You click that. Right now, mine is enabled, which means they would be able to find me, but I am going to disable it just to show you and then you just click OK. And then you are all set.

So, right now I'm disabled. So, that is very easy for you at home. If you want to try it, you can check it out.

Well, the whole Weiner debacle is raising the issue of social media and fidelity. Can tweeting constitute cheating? We are hash out that argument. You want to hear what one divorce attorney has to say. That's coming next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Of all of the questions that the Anthony Weiner scandal has raised - and there have been so many -- one seems to be pervasive, and it's not at all political. I'm talking about fidelity. Monogamy in particular and the wrench social media seems to throw straight into that debate.

Gone are the days of a fleeting, flirting moment with a stranger you pass. With social media sites like Facebook and as Weiner-gate has made clear, Twitter, there is much easier access to people. People we may find attractive, people that we may otherwise never get the chance to see or talk to in person.

So, that brings us to today's Stream Team and this notion of tweeting versus cheating. What constitutes a betrayal or deception online? Joining me to tackle this topic is CNN political analyst Roland Martin on the phone with us. Divorce and family law attorney Jennifer Brandt. And family therapist and bestselling author Terry Reel.

Thanks so much all of yuo for coming on and talking to us about this. Jennifer, I want to start with you. You are a divorce attorney. How many of your cases involve online cheating, and is there really a legal definition for this? Is tweeting cheating?

JENNIFER BRANDT, DIVORCE ATTORNEY: Well, I would say that nowadays about 90 percent of my cases involve some type of online cheating or online posting of pictures. It is not only cheating. Sometimes it is a custody case where people post inappropriate pictures.

But social media is pervasive. People have access to it; they are more familiar with it. And they are using it to get themselves in trouble --

KAYE: So, is considered cheating?

BRANDT: Well, I think that it is because it is a betrayal of trust. In the divorce world, cheating is not as important as people might think it is. It really does not make a difference in terms of the economic outcome of a divorce case. It may have some impact in custody, and now with most states have no-fault divorce, you don't have to prove that somebody did something wrong in order to get a divorce.

But from an emotional standpoint, and the reason why people might choose to get a divorce, cheating is one of the primary causes. And something like this situation where somebody is sending lewd pictures or having inappropriate chat with even an old boyfriend, that may be enough to put their spouse over the edge and cause them to file for a divorce. Absolutely.

KAYE: Roland, I want to bring you in. What are your thoughts about this? Is tweeting cheating?

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST (on the phone): Well, here is what is interesting when you begin to define what is cheating, and it is based upon frankly individual's morals and values. So, society can have their own standards as to what is cheating, but it also comes down to the individuals. If you look at the Christian faith, the Bible says that even if I may lust after someone, even in my mind, that is committing adultery, that you are violating the marriage covenant.

Now, I'm don't know necessarily saying that what it might be for other faiths as well, but that is how it is in the Christian faith. But it all comes down to individuals.

But also, think about it. When you talk about the whole notion, and look at Congressman Weiner's case, look at Tiger Woods' case. Guess what? Had Tiger had been a single man and Weiner been a single man, the reaction from the public would not be the same because we view a bachelor differently than we do somebody who is married. We view somebody who cheats on a girlfriend or boyfriend differently than cheating on a husband or wife.

So, society's standards really depends upon what they are doing, the actions -- if there is a grade level this might be on the scale of 1 to 5, a 2 or 3. But if it would be actually sexual intercourse, that is considered a five.

KAYE: Oh, yes.

Terry, I want to read one of our viewer comments and get your response to it. Jennifer Cohee says "Cheating is cheating whether you are physically sharing yourself with another or whether it is visuals. There are many different types of cheating from an actual physical affair to an emotional one."

So, Terry, I want to ask you. Do you think there's a divide between the sexes on this issue? Are men more likely to say, all right, this is OK. This really isn't cheating. It is okay to share pictures like this, more likely to say that than women?

TERRY REAL, FAMILY THERAPIST AND AUTHOR: Unfortunately, I think that is true. I think that men would be more likely to say sex is sex. If it isn't sex, it is not cheating. And the idea of an emotional affair is relatively new news to men whereas women will feel, if anything, more threatened by the emotional element of inappropriate behavior.

And to get to the question that you asked earlier, the rule is if your partner, being reasonable, would be enormously upset hearing you or seeing what you are doing, then you are over the line. Whether it is cheating or not, it is inappropriate behavior.

MARTIN: Terry, I disagree with one thing. I won't say that men would see it differently because if you also ask a man if your wife did it, how would you respond? I think that the person who is doing it is going to have the different reaction. Because they might say, well, no, I don't see it as that way. You can also ask, well, if you had some people who are married and they are flirting, how do you all sort of see how that is?

And so, I know people always assume that oh, men will see it differently. When you also look at the stats of women who cheat, a person who is doing it likely is the one who is going to say, I don't really see it that way.

KAYE: Yes.

Jennifer, let me just bring you in quickly here before we are out of time. I want your perspective on the comment from one of our viewers. "If you are married, it is cheating. If you and the lady are single and she's not offended, then there is nothing wrong with it." So, what are your thoughts on that.

BRANDT: Well, I disagree. I think what he did was wrong, whether he's on even a relationship, whether it is marriage or different type of relationship. If he has a girlfriend, I mean, again, it gets back to the trust issue.

And to comment on what was said before about the difference of men and women, I don't see that difference in my practice at all. In fact, there are many men out there who are highly offended and even go forward with the divorce just because their wife may be communicating with an old boyfriend and it doesn't even reach the issue of physical contact. It is just conversation.

Any time anyone feels threatened in a relationship and feels they cannot trust their partner, that is cheating in my book. And that may be enough for them to take the next step to actually go forward with the divorce --

KAYE: A very lively discussion. I heard you, Jennifer. And certainly very lively discussion. A lot of different opinions certainly from the men and the women on both sides here. Thank you all for joining it.

Time now for the CNN Political Update. Senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash joins me from Capitol Hill.

And Dana, the pressure continues to mount for Representative Weiner, who we have been talking about.

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That is right. Tim Kaine, who was a former Democratic party chairman now running for Senate now in the purple --conservative state of Virginia. He is the first prominent Democrat, Randi, to come out to say that he thinks he should resign.

Kaine told CBS 19 in Virgina that lying publicly about something like this is unforgivable and he should resign. Here in Congress nobody has said that yet. We did hear some pretty strong words from the Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid yesterday. And today, Randi, our producer Paul Corazon caught up with his number two, Dick Durbin, who also made clear he is not happy. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Any thoughts on Tim Kaine's position this morning on Representative Weiner. He said he should resign. Any thoughts?

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL), MAJORITY WHIP: (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, despite this mounting pressure, Randi, we are told from the Democratic sources that Weiner is still making clear behind the scenes he has no intention of resigning. He is making calls, and has been since Monday when he did that press conference publicly, saying privately to colleagues and friends and supporters that he is regretful, that he is so sorry about what happened. And one of the calls, we understand now, was to the former president Bill Clinton who married Weiner and his wife, who is very close to the Clintons. Both are with his wife, Huma.

Randi?

KAYE: All right. Dana Bash, thank you very much.

And your next update from The Best Political Team on Television is an hour away.

Also, we want to let you know on Monday, CNN will host the New Hampshire presidential debate. Join us as Republican hopefuls gather to size one another up, and of course, debate the issues as well. The New Hampshire Republican presidential debate happens Monday night only on CNN.

Well, Delta Airlines charged American soldiers for luggage. We are talking about thousands of dollars. It is today's "XYZ," and it is coming up right after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Time now for my "XYZ." And if you have ever been charged for excess baggage, well, you may relate to this.

A group of soldiers returning from Afghanistan were charged more than $2,800 -- $2,800 -- for excess baggage. Apparently, they were told by Delta Airlines they could only check three free bags and those with a fourth bag had to pay up. Those soldiers were charged $200 each for their extra luggage.

One soldier's extra bag was carrying his grenade launcher, a tool he can't just ship home and he has to use to protect himself and Afghan citizens while deployed. The soldiers say a contract between U.S. government and Delta allows them to check four bags when returning on military travel. As well they should. These men and women are putting their lives on the line, and an airline is charging them $200 each out of their own pocket so they can get home from the war zone?

Well, apparently, this happens often. "Stars and Stripes" says that the soldiers may have been misinformed about how many free bags they could check. Meanwhile, Delta has apologized and today increased the number of free bags allowed for the military on duty to four. So the soldiers do eventually get reimbursed by the military. We should point that out.

But that really doesn't matter to the guys who had to lay out $200 at the airport after risking their lives for this country.

But, Brooke, I got to tell you, it is that they, Delta did the right and they are helping these soldiers make it right.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Delta very quickly said, mea culpa, changed the rules, changed the policy.

KAYE: Yes.

BALDWIN: We have more on that actually later this hour.

Randi Kaye, thank you very much.