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Troop Withdrawal From Afghanistan; Casey Anthony Murder Trial; U.S. Legacy of Forced Sterilization

Aired June 22, 2011 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight is the night. In just a few hours, President Obama will deliver a highly-anticipated speech detailing troop withdrawals from Afghanistan.

How many are we talking about? Well, take a look at the numbers here -- 30,000 troops. That's the number of troops the president is expected to say will leave the region by the end of next year.

Ten thousand of those troops are expected to return home this year. Pulling 30,000 out would leave about 70,000 American troops in the region.

Now, if you're keeping track, this withdrawal plan comes 18 months after the president announced a troop surge in Afghanistan of 30,000 troops. It also follows a growing impatience with the war in Afghanistan, which we have been fighting for 10 years now.

Our CNN polling shows 74 percent of Americans are in support of some sort of drawdown. And I'll venture to guess that many are also in full support of saving a little money on defense spending. But when I say a little savings with that drawdown, I do mean exactly that.

In the first year, the Afghan withdrawal will save less than $10 billion. That sounds like a lot of money, I'm sure, but consider the costs of the war. This year alone, we're talking about $118 billion.

And since the first American troops went into Afghanistan, you and I, the American taxpayers, have spent about $443 billion on the war effort. Let me say that again, $443 billion on the war effort.

CNN Senior Political Analyst Gloria Borger joins me now from Washington.

Gloria, you wrote a fantastic column on CNN.com about this. President Obama's speech tonight, as you said, is not going to be a "Mission Accomplished" type speech, but more of a small victory speech. But is it really possible, Gloria, for Obama to claim success in Afghanistan?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, if you talk to senior White House advisers, as I've done, the answer is yes. They point back to the speech he gave at West Point in December, 2009, when he announced the surge of 30,000 troops. And at that point, he said, we have a few goals.

One is to diminish al Qaeda. OK. We all know that Osama bin Laden is dead.

The second is to reverse the momentum of the Taliban. They believe that they have done that.

And the third is to build up the Afghan security forces, which they believe they have done.

So while they're not going to hang out that banner, they are going to say the surge has achieved what it set out to do, and that's why you can begin withdrawing troops. I think the question remains about what you do with those other 70,000 troops, and I'm told that they say, as in the West Point speech, they're going to be withdrawn by 2014.

But they are going to say this is a steady president who, ironically, Randi, has become the national security president, which nobody expected when Republicans were campaigning against him as a community organizer. Right?

KAYE: But if President Obama is the national security president, what does that make the GOP?

BORGER: Right. Well, this is what's interesting. And I'm not sure whether this shift in politics is seismic or not yet, but if you watched our Republican debate, you saw a lot of those Republican candidates sounding a lot more like Ron Paul, who is clearly an isolationist. People want to get out of Afghanistan.

There's a little bit of an unsettled quality to Republicans on foreign policy right now. And inside the White House, they say, OK, contrast that unsettled feeling among Republican presidential candidates right now, as well as Republicans in the Congress, with, again, they call the steady hand of Barack Obama, who says this is what he wants to do, and then he does it.

So, you know, it's interesting, because Democrats have always been called soft on national security. And in this instance, it's a Democratic president who had a buildup and, of course, took on his own party and took on some Republicans who are very, very conscious of the extreme costs of this war, as you just pointed out a moment ago.

KAYE: Yes. So how much of this Afghanistan decision do you think, though, is really about money?

BORGER: Well, a lot of it. A lot of it is about money.

This is a president who understands very clearly that he's up for re-election. He's got unemployment over 9 percent. He's got a debt of, you know, $13 trillion-plus, that the American public is sick of this war, as our polls show. They want to spend money at home. They don't want to spend money abroad.

So I think you'd be foolish to say that a lot of this isn't driven by economics. However, the White House will also tell you that it's driven by the fact that some of the goals have been achieved. And, again, you know, you can't sort of overstate the achievements, because that would be wrong and that would be untrue, as was the "Mission Accomplished" banner. But they believe that they can now say that they did what they set out to do and they can start -- they can start leaving without claiming victory, but claiming some degree of success.

KAYE: Right, that they did something right.

All right. Gloria Borger, thank you.

BORGER: Yes, exactly.

KAYE: Thank you.

And as I mentioned, Gloria wrote a great column on President Obama. You can check it out at CNN.com/opinion.

And CNN is staying on the Afghanistan troop drawdown story throughout the day and right up to the president's address to the nation. It is scheduled for 8:00 p.m. Eastern, 5:00 Pacific. And you can watch it live, right here on CNN.

A pilot dodges disaster at New York's JFK Airport. A Lufthansa jumbo jet speeding for takeoff had to come to a screeching halt when an Egypt Air flight turned right onto the runway. It's not clear how close the planes got, but at takeoff speeds, the pilot would have had just seconds to react.

This near miss is today's "Sound Effect."

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

EGYPT AIR CONTROLLER: American 158 Heavy. You are ready to go.

LUFTHANSA AIR CONTROLLER: Whoa. Whoa.

EGYPT AIR CONTROLLER: Egypt Air 985 Heavy.

LUFTHANSA AIR CONTROLLER: Cancel takeoff plans. Cancel takeoff plans.

LUFTHANSA PILOT: Lufthansa 411 Heavy is rejecting takeoff.

LUFTHANSA AIR CONTROLLER: All traffic is stopped right now.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KAYE: After a brief inspection at the gate, the Lufthansa flight continued on its flight to Munich, Germany, and arrived safely, according to an airline spokesperson. The FAA is investigating.

Thousands of residents of Minot, North Dakota, are racing for higher ground today. They are being told to evacuate ahead of record flooding from the already swollen river. The river flows straight through the city, and officials fear it will breakthrough levees.

Fire is the story in other parts of the U.S. Crews are battling a stubborn blaze in east-central Arizona and west-central New Mexico. The so-called Wallow Fire is one of 53 wildfires burning in 12 states from Alaska to Florida. Blazes have scorched 1.4 million acres.

A daring, bloody prison escape unfolded for several hours in southern Yemen today. Dozens of suspected al Qaeda terrorists were among those who were freed when armed militants attacked the prison. They are linked to plots to kill Americans over the past two years.

Yemen TV says three escapees were killed. It is the latest example that al Qaeda may be trying to fill Yemen's political vacuum created by months of political unrest. The State Department says it has not been able to confirm any details of the prison break.

Incoming defense secretary Leon Panetta is touring the Pentagon today. He's making his rounds one day after the U.S. Senate confirmed Panetta in a rare 100-0 vote. He replaces Robert Gates, who is retiring at the end of the month. The current CIA director says he expects to be sworn into his new job sometime next week.

What was inside Casey Anthony's car, on her shoes? The answers, well, they may surprise you. You do not want to miss the latest on the Casey Anthony murder trial. We'll have it for you, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Chloroform gasoline, Casey's shoes and Caylee's hair. The defense for Casey Anthony honed in on those key things today that could help or hurt their case.

A chemistry professor found traces of chloroform, gasoline and other chemicals in Anthony's car trunk. Some of those chemicals are linked to a decomposing body, but the chemist said the levels were low and he could not determine whether Caylee's body was inside her mother's trunk.

So let's bring in Richard Herman, who is a criminal defense attorney and knows about all this stuff. He's been following this trial closely, and he joins me now.

Richard, this chemist was the one who took the air samples from Casey Anthony's trunk. The prosecution's expert used those same air samples, but testified earlier in the trial that there were shockingly high levels of chloroform. Those were his words.

So how do you think the jurors will make sense of all this?

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, Randi, the defense is trying any which way they can to discredit the prosecution forensics experts. This gentleman gave testimony completely contrary to one of his mentors and associates, Dr. Vass. And therefore, a juror is left with, who do I believe?

The prosecution put on one expert with outstanding credentials. The defense put on another expert with outstanding credentials. Who do I go with? Who am I persuaded by?

The judge will instruct these jurors, Randi, they do not have to believe any expert testimony. They can base it on their own analysis of the case. Experts are not definitive.

I don't know where it's going to go. For the prosecution, you know, you're going to find one way. The defense, another way. That's what these cases come down to.

KAYE: It feels like information overload for these jurors.

But the defense also called an FBI geologist who found that the soil on Casey Anthony's shoes and trunk did not match the soil where the little girl's body was found. But then she said this -- listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can walk across the scene and not have any soil transferred onto the shoes, in which case, when we do an examination, I won't see any soil and will not be able to connect you to the scene. You can also walk through the scene and have soil transfer which then later falls off.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: You know, Richard, it seems to me that the defense's own expert is hurting their case a bit here. What do you think?

HERMAN: Well, Randi, you know, it's all about preparation. In law, like in life, preparation is the key to success. And here, it really shows that Baez is deficient in preparing these experts to testify.

You've got to sit with them. You've got to rehearse with them. You have to give them sample direct and sample cross-examination questions so they're prepared. There really does not appear to be preparation here in the examination of these defense experts.

KAYE: Another forensic expert, Richard, today testified about Caylee's hair. What was the defense trying to prove there?

HERMAN: The whole defense is, look, she was never in the car, and all the findings of a decomposing body in the car are false. Remember, there was one strand of hair among all the strands of hair found in the trunk and inside the car that had some sort of decomposition death ring around it. There are other explanations for that death ring.

I think the defense has done a credible job on debunking that theory, but, again, that's the theory of the defense, that body was never in the trunk decomposing. Yet, despite the smell that overwhelmingly was testified by many prosecution witnesses.

KAYE: There is a great debate over whether or not Casey Anthony should take the stand. At this point in the trial, what do you think? Would it help or hurt? HERMAN: Randi, I've been saying this so early on, and I keep saying it. There is no way she can -- look, he can't prepare his experts to testify. He doesn't know where they're going.

If he puts her on the stand, I guarantee you this jury, any juror that is hanging, maybe not sure, maybe want to hang the jury on the forensics and on the first-degree murder, they will be persuaded to convict her because she will not be believable. She will antagonize this jury. She will infuriate the jury. And they will come back and convict her of murder, and they will convict her and give her the death penalty.

It is so overwhelming, that she cannot and must not testify. The best the defense can do here is a hung jury, two or three jurors may be holding out. There's no way they can get an acquittal on the first-degree murder. And this will ruin her chances of a hung jury if she gets on that stand.

KAYE: All right. I think we're pretty clear on where you stand on that, Richard. I will not ask you again. I promise. All right.

HERMAN: You can ask me.

KAYE: OK. Thanks for coming on, and we'll see you again tomorrow.

Forced sterilization in a bid to improve society. We're not talking about Nazi Germany. It was widespread right here in the United States. We'll hear from the daughter of the victim and what one state may do to try and make amends, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAYE: Now to a story that evokes memories of Nazi Germany, the forced sterilization of people in a bid to rid society of undesirable characteristics. It may come as a surprise, but a sterilization policy known as eugenics existed in this country for years. In fact, 33 states had a eugenics program in the 1900s. Most ended after World War II.

However, North Carolina's program ran until 1974. About 7,600 people in North Carolina were sterilized, many of them forcefully. Of those, about 3,000 are alive today.

North Carolina is now trying to determine how to make amends for its sterilization program at a hearing today in Raleigh, where victims had a chance to tell their stories.

And joining us now from Raleigh, Delores Marks, whose mother was a victim of the state's forced sterilization program, and Daren Bakst, with The John Locke Foundation.

Daren, let me begin with you. Why this hearing today, and what are the chances that North Carolina will make amends? DAREN BAKST, THE JOHN LOCKE FOUNDATION: Well, the state has been looking at compensating the nearly 3,000 living victims for a while now, and the state is getting serious about it. Unfortunately, North Carolina is one of the rare states that actually increased the number of forced sterilizations after World War II. So, where other states kind of stopped sterilizing people and learned the lessons from Nazi Germany, North Carolina didn't.

About 77 percent of those sterilized occurred after World War II. And with so many living victims, it's about time that we compensated those people.

KAYE: And these were people -- just so I understand, Daren, these were people who the state deemed, what, mentally unfit?

BAKST: The state deemed unfit, unworthy to reproduce. And what they would do is they would categorize them in a category called "feebleminded." And that was just a catchall phrase, just a way to make sure that some people didn't reproduce, a way to ensure that we reduced welfare rolls. Basically, it was a way to kind of get people that they didn't want to have reproduce not in the general population anymore.

KAYE: Delores, I'd like to bring you in here to the conversation.

I know that you're waiting and hoping for amends related to your mother's sterilization, your mother's case. Can you tell me what this would mean to you if the state did try and make this right?

DELORES MARKS, DAUGHTER OF STERILIZATION VICTIM: Well, it has gone on entirely too long. And my sisters and I, we've been working on this. And for the living victims, it would mean quite a bit of not only health care, but help for them.

For us, it would make us feel much better. It would amend something that was done to my mother years ago even though she's not alive today, but it would help us to go on, because we had to put our lives on hold to take care of what Cherry Hospital in Goldsboro, North Carolina, sent back home to us.

KAYE: What were the circumstances, just very briefly, Delores, of what happened to your mom? Why was she sterilized?

MARKS: After having my brother, she had postpartum syndrome. That's what it's called today. She was sent to Goldsboro Hospital, and she was put on very strong medications.

She was kept there for 12 years. She worked in that hospital. We are assuming that the medicine was -- you know, they would free up the medicine in order for her to work.

And then, in 1965, she was almost 40 years old. They put her on one medication, sterilized her, and sent her home. And she did --

KAYE: Daren, this sounds like Nazi Germany, does it not? BAKST: It comes from the same place, you know, the concept of negative eugenics, that we're going to try to control who's going to reproduce. So, it does come from the same place.

Nazi Germany certainly took it further than North Carolina did. North Carolina is not necessarily unique. Many other states, as you mentioned before, did sterilize many people. It just so happens that we have a lot of living victims.

It's also important to remember that this is not some long-ago history. This program lasted until the '70s, at least. So there's many living victims as a result of the fact that we have been sterilizing people for a long time. And it wasn't that long ago when this happened.

KAYE: So do you think we've learned anything from this, Daren? I mean, what lessons are to be learned from something so horrific in our own country's history, forced sterilization?

BAKST: That's the million-dollar question. I hope that -- I mean, certainly, we learned, don't forcibly sterilize people. But I think most importantly, we want to learn the lesson that the idea of pushing the greater good at the expense of fundamental rights is not a good idea. We have to be very careful.

And what happened here was the state, through the use of force, physically invaded the bodies of innocent people and took away their most basic fundamental right. And that never should happen. It never should happen again.

KAYE: Delores, I know you said that your mother is no longer alive today. But what would she think of this now that the state is trying to hopefully make this right?

MARKS: I think she would be happy about what the state is doing, but I think she would be very upset as to what they did to her.

KAYE: And can you ever forgive what's happened here to so many people in North Carolina and across the country, Delores?

MARKS: Of course I can forgive, you know, because I believe there's a God. And I can forgive.

And what will make my family feel better is that we continue to help with the fight. My mother's gone, but she still lives through us. And we will continue to fight this to see that justice is done not only for our family, but for all of the families, all -- over 7,000 or more.

KAYE: Well, Delores Marks and Daren Bakst, thank you so much, both of you, for coming on this show today and helping us shed some light on what's happened to so many of our own people here in this country all those years ago. We wish you the best of luck with getting some compensation.

First lady Michelle Obama in South Africa today. Why she's talking about U.S. civil rights, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke has downplayed the chances of another recession, but has acknowledged recent economic weakness. He is speaking to reporters right now, discussing the Fed's economic outlook. This is the second press conference for Bernanke since the Fed announced it would start holding such events earlier this year.

About half past the hour now.

First lady Michelle Obama today paid tribute to apartheid victims during a visit to South Africa's township of Soweto. She spoke to young women from across Africa in a church that played a key role in the 1976 Soweto uprising. She drew parallels between the successful fight against apartheid and the U.S. civil rights movement, saying both should inspire African women to overcome the problems of today.

The Republican race for the White House, well, it's getting sort of crowded. Minnesota Congresswoman Michele Bachmann will formally announce her candidacy on Monday in Waterloo, Iowa. Bachmann's run is no real surprise. She announced it at CNN's WMUR GOP debate last week that she's already filed her election paperwork.

U.S. Open champion Rory McIlroy is back on his home turf on northern Ireland. McIlroy showed off his trophy today at his home club in Hollywood, Northern Ireland. The 22-year-old led the field of golfers throughout the competition, finishing with a very impressive eight-stroke lead.

Tiger Woods, of course, not at the U.S. Open. Now he says he's officially out of the upcoming AT&T tournament, too. Here's what he tweeted just a short time ago. "Doctor's orders. Sitting out the AT&T National. I'll be in Philly to support the event. Feeling stronger every day but not 100 percent."

The tournament begins June 30th. Woods has been struggling with knee and Achilles tendon injuries for quite some time.

Two planes. One runway. A pilot has to make a very quick decision. See what happened in just 80 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: President Obama will deliver a nationally televised speech tonight on U.S. troop withdrawals in Afghanistan. He's expected to outline his plan to bring home 10,000 troops this year, another 20,000 in 2012. About 100,000 in all are now serving.

Initial recommendations from top brass pushed for smaller drawdown numbers, and Defense Secretary Robert Gates suggested a withdrawal of support troops only, not combat troops. CNN will cover the president's speech live at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.

Countdown is underway in Cape Canaveral, Florida, as the Atlantis crew prepares for its final launch in July. The crew rehearsed practice landings this morning for the 12-day mission where they will deliver vital supplies to the international space station. Reflecting on the significance of this final space mission, commander Chris Ferguson had this to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS FERGUSON, SHUTTLE COMMANDER: I don't think that the full magnitude of the moment will really hit us until the wheels have stopped on the runway. I'm not sure words will really be able to capture for the crew and for the entire shuttle workforce, you know, just how much the shuttle program has meant to us for the last 30 years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: The Atlantis crew of four, three men and one woman, will continue their training and preparations for the final space flight. Launch is set for July 8th.

Audio recording captured a close call at JFK Airport where a Lufthansa jumbo jet nearly collided with an Egypt Air flight when it veered into its runway. Listen to this.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

EGYPT AIR CONTROLLER: American 158 heavy. You are ready to go.

LUFTHANSA AIR CONTROLLER: Whoa, whoa. Hold up.

EGYPT AIR CONTROLLER: Egypt Air 986 heavy.

LUFTHANSA AIR CONTROLLER: Cancel takeoff. Cancel takeoff plans.

LUFTHANSA PILOT: Lufthansa 411 heavy is rejecting takeoff.

LUFTHANSA AIR CONTROLLER: All traffic is stopped right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: The FAA now investigating that incident.

Former vice president Al Gore taking a shot at President Obama for not defending the science of global warming. Gore wrote in a "Rolling Stone" article that President Obama has not made use of the bully pulpit to make the case on climate change. Gore did acknowledge the political difficulty on the issue and says Obama can expect a tough re-election.

We've got some incredible video of a fan in Fenway Park who catches a foul ball with his beer cup! Yes, that is right. With his beer cup. Take a look here.

Nick Hunley hit a foul ball in the top of the sixth. And there it is. As the ball came barreling toward the crowd, it leaps up and landed right in that guy's cup. Man standing, saluting as you see there. Takes a drink from the beer while the ball is still in the cup.

Here it is one more time. Oh, yes! We recently learned the fan is actually a former professional hockey player. Nice catch.

All right. Now a daring prison break in Yemen. Alleged al Qaeda members linked to plots to kill Americans. We'll have details for you on this right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Another blow to Yemen. Dozens of suspected al Qaeda militants escaped today from prison. Here to talk about all of this with us is the only and only Michael Holmes.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Good to see you, Randi.

KAYE: Good to see you as well.

HOLMES: In glasses.

KAYE: In glasses. I can see you better in my glasses.

HOLMES: I told you to wear them. They look nice.

KAYE: I know you have. My contacts just weren't working for me today.

So, let's get back to the Yemen story.

HOLMES: Yes, Yemen. Government officials are tells us there's no actual official confirmation yet. But we're told that dozens of al Qaeda militants got out of this jail in a place called Mukalla (ph) in the south of the country.

It really does show, yet again, that lawless part of Yemen where we said there is no government control, really. That al Qaeda is more and more emboldened to do such things. They had these guys apparently jumped the guards, took their weapons, got out through a tunnel. And at the same time as that was happening, there was an external attack launched as well with RPGs and small arms fire.

Yes, a few people hurt. But just a game. This sort of brazen thing.

KAYE: So, what does this say about the whole power vacuum in al Qaeda there?

HOLMES: Well, it says al Qaeda, as we always feared with this, when Ali Abdullah Saleh and they problems they've been having in Yemen that this would create an open turf, if you like, for al Qaeda to regroup, rearm, and become even more powerful. They are already - Yemen is the center for al Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula.

And the other thing, speaking of power vacuum, is that the government is saying that Saleh will return. Remember, he's in Saudi Arabia for burns treatment recovery from the bomb blast. They're saying he's going to come back on Friday. The opposition doesn't buy it.

So, we'll wait and see if he's got the nerve.

KAYE: And even if he does come back, we'll see if anything changes.

HOLMES: Yes, yes. The government saying he'll have a warm reception. But I'm not so sure.

KAYE: Yes. Let's talk about this food crisis. The world food crisis now appears to be the key focus of the G-20.

HOLMES: Yes. G-20 agriculture ministers are meeting in France and discussing this. It's a very serious thing. The president of the World Bank, in fact, says that volatile food prices is, in his words, the single greatest threat that developing nations are facing. The World Bank says that last year, rising food prices led to an estimated 44 (sic) more people in the world living in poverty because of the cost of food. There's already a billion people around the world who are said to go to bed hungry ever night.

There's also been warnings by the French agriculture minister that if they don't work something out at the G-22 to try to curb these rising food prices, you could see food riots again, which we have seen in other parts of the world.

KAYE: So, is this just a bunch of really smart people, they all come into this room and try to figure out how they're going to solve the world's food crisis then?

HOLMES: A lot of people say that about the G-20. You just get a lot of talking going on. But there is a sense of urgency there that they need to do something to control - in some food areas, there's speculation on food prices. They're like derivatives and things. And they're saying there needs to be tighter regulation of the commodity market to stop these food spikes.

Wheat is up 50 percent over the last year. Corn has doubled. That's a lot when you're talking about places that can't afford it.

KAYE: The story that I can't stop talking about today is this wayward penguin.

HOLMES: The march -- the swim of the penguin, shall we call it?

KAYE: A really long swim, right? This Emperor penguin.

HOLMES: Emperor penguin, normally in Antarctica, of course. they don't normally get to where you see there on the map. Took a wrong turn in the ice floes, they reckon. He was looking for some krill or squid and turned right instead of left and ended up in New Zealand, which is very attractive but not normally the home. There he is.

Three foot tall, by the way. They're not tiny. They can get to be four feet tall.

KAYE: And he's all by himself. And apparently Phillipe Cousteau was on the show with us last hour and he was saying that he might just be confused because of something that might be happening with the currents or --

HOLMES: Yes, that's right. Yeah, I missed that. I would have liked to have heard what Phillipe had to say about it.

But yes, the experts down there are saying he probably just took a wrong turn. People are saying, get him back. Let's take him home to Antarctica, to the very -- to the communities that they have down there.

And the experts are saying, actually, no. They're just going to let nature take its course. He got here on his own. If he wants to go back, that's fine. And they don't want to take him back. One of the reasons, on his journey through the warmer waters, he might have picked up a bug or two and then take that back to the colonies. So, they're just going to let nature take its course.

KAYE: Yes, I feel bad for him. He's eating wet sand. He's confused.

HOLMES: Yes, they think he thinks it's snow. Because they eat snow.

KAYE: I would go and save him if I could.

HOLMES: You would, wouldn't you?

KAYE: I would. That's how I feel. He's that close to my heart.

HOLMES: Four feet tall, again. That's pretty big.

KAYE: I know. That is pretty big.

HOLMES: About as tall as you!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: I don't know. Maybe I shouldn't go there so quickly.

All right. Michael, great to see you today.

HOLMES: As always, Randi.

KAYE: Well, you may have heard about the financial crisis in Greece, and be honest, you may not think it's important to you, right? Well, wrong. In two minutes, I break down how it's impacting us all right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Welcome back. Greece may be a country of timeless charm, but they are struggling to find a way to repay its huge debts. The state sector is heavily unionized. Companies face tax hike. They're leasing valuable ports and roads to other countries. And there is still the real possibility that Greece will default on its debt.

So, why does Greece matter to the rest of us? Well, let's start with exactly what's happening and the sheer amount of debt the country has. It is vast. They are more than 100 percent of what is called debt to GDP. This is more than $300 billion worth of debt, which is a lot for a small country. And, simply, they've been unable to pay their bills or turn around their economy.

Why does it matter, you ask? Well, it's causing uncertainty in the euro zone and concern over the euro. It's also led to two bailouts for Greece since 2010. Some fear what's happening there could happen here. Earlier today, I asked Richard Quest, anchor of "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" if it ever could.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": I suppose if I was being mischievous and apocalyptic, the answer is, yes. But the reality is, no. Let's look at the differences between the U.S. and Greece, for example. The U.S. economy, the largest in the world, has a debt to GDP ratio of about 75. It might be a bit higher than that. It might be up to 90 percent of the economy if you take everything in total.

Greece's economy is twenty-seventh, with a debt to GDP of 125. But the U.S. is the world's reserve currency. It issues debt in its own greenback dollars. It is still the favorite place to invest in the world because of the trillions and trillions of dollars' worth of size of the economy.

Even being mischievous, though, I would say the failure to raise the debt ceiling, along with an annual budget deficit of 9 percent and a trillion dollars, that should give American policymakers more than enough indigestion when they look at Greece.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Should state employees be subject to random drug tests? Today's Streem Team will tackle this topic right after a quick break. So keep it here.

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KAYE: Florida governor Rick Scott signed an executive order in March that would require random drug testing of many current state employees as well as those applying for government jobs. The order would make current employees and agencies that answer to the governor subject to random screening at least quarterly. The ACLU of Florida filed a federal suit seeking to block the order, arguing that at least part of the order is unconstitutional. While the case is pending, Governor Scott has directed his staff to suspend implemation, allowing testing to move ahead only in the Department of Corrections.

Now testing federal employees is not a new issue. It started under President Reagan, actually, whose executive order required that federal employees be drug free whether or not they're on the job. Well, in 1988, Congress passed the Drug Free Workplace Act. And since then, states have increasingly been adopting similar requirements for employee drug testing.

Scott said he plans to move forward with implementing the order once the lawsuit has been resolved. So, our question today for the stream team is this: Should state workers be drug tested?

Lisa Bloom is with us today. She's an attorney and author of "Think: Straight Talk For Women to Stay Smart In A Dumbed-Down World." Mark De Bernardo is the founder and executive director of The Institute for a Drug Free Workplace. Will Cain is the host of "Off the Page" on NationalReview.com.

Mark, I'd like to start with you. If you were advising the state of Florida, would you recommend that they try to randomly test employees?

MARK DE BERNARDO, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INSTITUTE FOR A DRUG FREE WORKPLACE: No. I think while I concur with Governor Scott's policy and his intentions, I understand what he's trying to get at, I think that's a tactical retreat that's entirely appropriate. Fourth Amendment is applicable. The Supreme Court decisions, which have upheld drug testing in the public sector, were limited to testing of employees in safety sensitive positions.

Now, I will say testing on a pre-employment basis, that's a different issue. And I would like to see in the public sector pre- employment drug testing and for Florida to go forward on that.

KAYE: Lisa, the Constitution does not prohibit drug testing. So can Governor Scott legally drug test all of the agencies that answer to him?

LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: The Constitution does protect against unreasonable searches and seizures. And the courts have held repeatedly if there's no nexus, if there's no connection between the drug testing and the job, then it is a violation of the Fourth Amendment.

We can understand drug testing for air traffic controllers or firefighters or even prison guards. But simply requiring a blanket drug test of all state workers is, in my mind, not only a slap in the face to workers but unconstitutional. I mean, hey, why not just drug test all Americans while we're at it? There has to be a place where we draw the line and we protect individuals' right of privacy.

KAYE: Will, I want to bring you in. Money is tight. Should Florida use its resources, do you think, to be drug testing current and potential state employees all across the state?

WILL CAIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, we're not talking about that much money here. It's not like we're creating a new entitlement or something. I want to respond to something Lisa said, though, Randi. The line that's being drawn here is the line of employment. To correlate this with testing every person in the United States is completely off base. We trade constitutional rights all day long for the privilege of employment. I can't assemble in the break room for five hours. I don't have the free speech to talk trash about my boss. If the boss in this case the taxpayers want to test their employees to see if they're on crank, that seems pretty reasonable.

KAYE: Lisa, you want to respond to this?

DE BERNARDO: It seems reasonable --

BLOOM: Actually, public employees don't forfeit their constitutional rights. And they do still have some shreds of constitutional rights left, although they're constantly being frittered away. And we're talking about not only testing for serious drugs, but testing for things like marijuana that stays in your bloodstream for 30 days.

You know, I'm surprised at a time of fiscal austerity that anybody would introduce a measure like this that would cost a significant amount of money. Because we're talking about testing a large number of people, at a minimum four times a year. And for what? Without reasonable suspicion. Are we to say to all state employees we think you're drug addicts? I think that's offensive.

KAYE: Well, the governor has said he owes that to the people there of Florida. But Mark, I want to give you a word in here.

DE BERNARDO: Yes, the cost issue is a red herring. The cost of drug testing is not very much. The cost of not doing drug testing is very expensive. According to Health and Human Services, those who engage in illicit drugs are one-third less productive. So, if you're the state of Florida, do you want your employees to be one-third less productive? According to HHS, again the federal government, 11 percent of those who are 18 and older working outside of the home are current illicit drug users.

In the private sector, we're addressing that and addressing it very effectively. Why shouldn't the public sector be able to address it as well? That's why I applaud Governor Scott's sentiment.

Now, you do have the Fourth Amendment applicability. I would rather and I would advise him to limit this to pre-employment testing, not post-employment testing.

KAYE: Will, we'll give you the final word here.

CAIN: I just want to say, this isn't some big intrusion on public employees' constitutional rights. They still have them. What they won't have if they fail a drug test or they don't want to submit to it is their job. They still have their rights.

KAYE: All right. All of you, great discussion. Certainly a hot topic. Glad we had you all here to talk about it with us. Thank you. Well, Bristol Palin will talk about politics and her pregnancy. Mark Preston will have all the details. The whole scoop for us, next.

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KAYE: Time now for a CNN political update. CNN senior political editor Mark Preston joining me now from Washington.

Hi there, Mark. Texas governor Rick Perry staying in the news for sure.

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLTICAL EDITOR: He certainly is, Randi. Yesterday we talked about how Rick Perry, who was seriously considering running for president, is going to appear at a conference down in South Carolina that's being hosted by Red State. Now we find out today that Rick Perry is going to be going to another very important early voting state in the Republican presidential primary process, New Hampshire. He's going up there for a fundraiser for The Cornerstone Group. It is a conservative organization in New Hampshire.

So, as Rick Perry continues to mull in -- whether or not he's going to run for president, it seems like he's taking steps that appears that he will. So, we'll hopefully find out by next month whether the Texas governor, in fact, will seek the Republican presidential nomination.

You know, Randi, one person who a lot of people have left for dead, even though he is running for president, is Newt Gingrich. But today in Atlanta where you are, he came out during his speech and he continued to vow to run for president even though he's had all these problems with his staff shake-up, a lot of staffers have left him. Just yesterday, it was announced that two of his top fundraisers were leaving the campaign.

But today during the speech down in Atlanta, Newt Gingrich talked about how at this time during the 2007 presidential election, Hillary Clinton was the favorite to win the Democratic nomination, John McCain was out of money, and Rudy Giuliani was expected to win the Republican nomination. Well, we all know how that all worked out. Barack Obama won Democratic nomination, won the White House and of course, John McCain went on to win the Republican nomination.

So, Newt Gingrich vowing to motor on despite all the problems facing his campaign.

And how about this? Bristol Palin, Randi, she's coming out with a book.

KAYE: Oh, yes, I read all the tidbits.

PRESTON: Not too much of a shocker. All the little tidbits. Kind of salacious. And I'll try to be family friendly here as we talk about it. But Bristol Palin has a book out where she talks about her life. In fact, listen to the title of the book: "Not Afraid Of My Life: My Journey So Far." Well, she's a pretty young person. A lot of years ahead of her. But a lot of people are going to wonder what she has to say in this book, Randi.

KAYE: I'll help you out there. She does talk about a lot of first times for lots of things. So, we can leave it there, Mark.

PRESTON: Yes.

KAYE: All right. Thank you. Good to see you.

Your next update from The Best Political Team on Television is just an hour away. CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Brooke Baldwin. Hi, Brooke.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Randi Kaye. Thank you so much.