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House Votes to Cut Libya Funding; Casey Anthony's Brother on Stand; Whitey Bulger to Appear Before Boston Magistrate; Mob Boss Arrested in Santa Monica; Cell Phone Clues on Bin Laden?; Historic Floods Slam North Dakota
Aired June 24, 2011 - 13:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Well, we are at the top of the hour here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
T.J. Holmes with you.
We are keeping a close eye on the Casey Anthony murder trial. It has been an emotional day of testimony. Her brother Lee is on the stand. He has given tearful testimony today. But that continues, being cross-examined right now by the prosecution.
We will keep a close eye on this, and we'll take you back to it here in just a moment. But we have other important news we need to get to.
This just happened up on Capitol Hill, and let me bring in Dana Bash for it, who joins me now.
Dana, we were watching a couple of votes there in the House today. This was the second one that would pull some funding, pull a lot of funding from the military effort in Libya.
What happened?
DANA BASH, CNN SR. CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is supposed to be a big double-barrel blow to the president when it comes to the Libya mission, but this bill, which the Republican leadership thought was going to pass, actually failed. So it turned into an "oops" for the Republicans here in the House.
What this bill was supposed to do was to take away funding for most of the mission, at least the combat part of the mission in Libya. And the goal there was to make it very clear to the president that the House of Representatives is not happy with the fact he has not come to Congress for consultation, and specifically authorization.
But we're told after watching people scramble to go to the House floor to try to figure out what was going on here in a moment of drama, that apparently there were enough Republicans who the leadership thought would vote for this. They actually thought -- what this ended up being was tacit authorization for the mission in general that they didn't support it.
So it was a little bit of a mess, if you will. Republican leaders are insisting that they did not actually whip this, which means they didn't actually know which way their membership was going (ph) to go.
But I can tell you point blank that the Republicans were pretty confident going in that this would pass and this would send a very strong message to the president that he's simply wrong on this. So, this is something that was not expected here. As one of my colleagues said, everybody is rewriting their leads.
I should also mention though, T.J., that earlier, there was a blow to the president. And that was there was a vote on a resolution to authorize the Libya mission, and that did failed pretty overwhelmingly.
HOLMES: All right. A little bit of confusion out there. And they were trying to send a message and it kind of backfired. We'll see how both sides now spin this.
Dana Bash, we appreciate you hopping in front of the camera for us.
BASH: Thank you.
HOLMES: Thank you so much.
And to our viewers, and as promised, we are keeping a close eye on the other live event taking place right now in a courtroom in Florida. Casey Anthony, the murder trial, continues. Her brother is on the stand.
I am joined in studio by Holly Hughes, an attorney here. We will be giving -- or she will give you the analysis as we continue to listen to this together.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY'S BROTHER: -- I was not being made a part of. So I'm not going to go out of my way to invite myself or to know everything that's going on if I'm led to believe that I shouldn't be involved with it. So if that hopefully answers your question on why I wasn't an attentive potential uncle, I wish I was, but I was not.
JEFF ASHTON, PROSECUTOR: But your parents weren't hiding this fact from their friends and loved ones. They invited them to a Party.
ANTHONY: No, they weren't.
JOSE BAEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Objection, Judge, as to this witness' knowledge of what his parents would do with their friends.
JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, ORANGE COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT: Sustained.
ASHTON: During this deposition, Mr. Anthony, we discussed the period of time leading up to the birth of your niece, and we discussed, in fact, whether you were present when she was born. Is that correct? Do you recall that?
ANTHONY: I don't recall if we did as far as me being present or not.
ASHTON: OK. Page 36, just for the witness, line -- let me just make sure this was already published to the witness. Yes.
Line 22, to the end of the page, for the witness. Do you recall that question and answer?
ANTHONY: I see the portion of my answer, yes, sir, and I recall the question.
ASHTON: Did you cry during that portion of this deposition, Mr. Anthony, to your recollection?
ANTHONY: I don't recall if I did. I don't think so.
ASHTON: What was different two hours ago in this courtroom about that question that caused such raw emotion today, which was not present two years ago when you were asked the same thing?
ANTHONY: There was other things that were asked in my deposition. Specifically, if I believed Caylee was --
ASHTON: Objection, Your Honor. Non-responsive. Move to strike.
PERRY: Sustained.
ASHTON: The question, Mr. Anthony, is this --
ANTHONY: Yes, sir?
ASHTON: -- what was different about the question being asked of you --
BAEZ: I'm going to object. I think we need to hear what the answer is.
PERRY: I sustained objection to the question.
ASHTON: The question before you, Mr. Anthony, is this: what was different about the way the emotion with which you answered that question two hours ago that was different than the emotion that you did not display when asked the same question two years ago?
ANTHONY: Two years ago, I did not 100 percent hold the belief that Caylee was dead. At this very moment, two hours ago, and during that two-year span, I've come to the place where I believe that she is. And my emotions are elicited from those facts that I have regrets, and I wish I could have been there a lot more than I was.
ASHTON: Mr. Anthony, you attended and spoke at a memorial service for Caylee in January of 2009, six months before this deposition was taken. Didn't you?
ANTHONY: Yes, sir, I did.
ASHTON: You -- no further questions.
PERRY: Redirect as to those issues?
BAEZ: Yes, sir.
Mr. Anthony, you were asked about -- you were asked about a stain somewhere in this vicinity the size of a basketball.
May I publish this, Your Honor, to both the jury and --
PERRY: Yes. What's the exhibit number?
BAEZ: Eighty.
PERRY: State's exhibit 80.
You may publish.
ANTHONY: Yes, I was asked about that.
BAEZ: Do you see a basketball-sized stain there or --
ASHTON: The photograph speaks for itself.
PERRY: Overruled.
BAEZ: Do you see any basketball-sized stain there at all?
ANTHONY: I see a few stains, nothing necessarily that's the size of a basketball, no.
BAEZ: Do you see white powder of some sort?
ASHTON: Objection. The photograph speaks for itself. The witness has no basis to answer that question.
PERRY: Overruled.
ANTHONY: I do, and that's not what I would even reference necessarily as the stain that I was referring to. A white powder is a lot different than a stain.
BAEZ: Point to me where you see a stain in that area where Mr. Ashton was questioning you, if you see one.
ANTHONY: I don't. In this section, I do not.
It's very hard to see from this photo, but there is a stain here and there's a stain here. There's also things that are circled right there at B that looks like a different color, maybe powder or some kind of substance. I don't know exactly what that is.
But the stains I was referring to were darker in nature, almost like -- I apologize. I'm colorblind, so my interpretation of it might be a little different. But more like a red or a black, sort of just a darker, deeper color.
BAEZ: Did you see your mother use an entire bottle of Febreze in the trunk of this car?
ASHTON: Objection. Exceeds (ph) the scope of cross.
PERRY: Overruled.
ANTHONY: Never.
BAEZ: OK. Did you see law enforcement spray the entire trunk with Blue Star (ph)?
ANTHONY: I don't even know what that is, and no.
BAEZ: OK.
Now, Mr. Ashton asked you about whether you had met with myself in reference to your testimony. Did you meet with the defense at any time prior to trial? Let me rephrase that. Let me narrow that down a bit.
ANTHONY: OK.
BAEZ: Did you meet with the defense prior to you testifying for the state of Florida against your sister?
ANTHONY: No, sir, I did not.
BAEZ: OK. Did you advise us of any testimony you intended to give for the state of Florida against your sister?
ANTHONY: No, sir.
BAEZ: OK. Did you testify truthfully when you testified for the state of Florida?
ASHTON: Objection.
PERRY: Sustained.
BAEZ: Can I bring up page --
PERRY: What are you publishing?
BAEZ: The question and answer asked -- during his deposition.
ASHTON: It was not --
(CROSSTALK)
BAEZ: I'd like to question the witness about it, Your Honor.
PERRY: You can question him, but show it to the witness. Go ahead.
BAEZ: Yes, sir. Page 31.
PERRY: What page?
BAEZ: I'm double-checking.
Can you go to 30? I'm sorry.
PERRY: Page what?
BAEZ: Thirty. I'm just double-checking. I want to follow up on a question. Thirty-one. I'm sorry, 31.
You were asked -- can you review lines 12 through 14?
HOLMES: Again, standing by here with attorney Holly Hughes as we watch this.
What was the prosecutor -- I guess that was a pretty dramatic moment a short time ago, the prosecutor asking of Mr. Lee, Casey's brother, why is it earlier today you were crying when you were asked about your sister's pregnancy? But in your deposition, the same question was asked and you weren't crying then.
What essentially was that prosecutor saying?
HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know the unspoken part of that question, T.J., is, you big faker. OK?
What he's trying to signal in his questioning to the jury is, consider what's happening here, people. He was asked this exact question after he already knew the little girl was dead. There was a memorial service in January. He didn't give his deposition until about six months later.
And when it's just a room, where nobody's watching, and it's just the lawyers and the witness, he's not emotional, T.J. He doesn't get all broken up about it. He's not crying and weeping.
And so the prosecutor, he says to him, hey, back when we asked you about this before, you weren't crying then, you weren't weeping then. So what's different now?
And that's a way for him to signal to the jury, you might be looking at a really good actor here. And that's what he wants to get across.
HOLMES: Wow.
We will continue to keep a close eye, and we are listening into this. We're going to squeeze in a quick break while they have a little bit of a lull here as he reads through some things. So stay here with us.
After this break, I'm back with Holly Hughes and more testimony from the brother of Casey Anthony.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Back here with attorney Holly Hughes as we watch this Casey Anthony murder trial. And we're watching the testimony from Casey Anthony's brother, Lee Anthony. Very emotional this morning. He is now being examined once again -- questioned once again by the defense.
We're going to listen in to this. And we have Holly Hughes here standing by with me for some analysis. Let's listen in right now.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
BAEZ: You were asked why you didn't cry during the deposition.
ANTHONY: Yes, sir.
BAEZ: Is sitting here today much different than sitting in the state attorney's office two years ago?
ASHTON: Objection. Leading.
PERRY: Overruled.
ANTHONY: Absolutely.
BAEZ: And can you share with the ladies and gentlemen of the jury why?
ANTHONY: I don't want to be here. I don't want, you know, my sister to be here and my parents to be here.
It's -- I'm also emotionally and all that stuff in a much different place than I was a couple years ago. And this is obviously just very, very emotionally draining and very difficult.
BAEZ: Mr. Ashton asked you about giving a speech at Caylee's memorial prior to your deposition. And you testified about not -- at your deposition, not believing Caylee was dead. Is that correct?
ANTHONY: I was not willing to write it off at that point in time. I didn't want to believe it. I couldn't believe it at that time.
BAEZ: So you were able, after having a funeral for your niece, to block her death out of your emotions for approximately six months?
ASHTON: Objection. Leading.
PERRY: Sustained.
BAEZ: Were you able to block that out of -- that emotion out of your -- compartmentalize it?
ASHTON: Same objection. Same question.
PERRY: Sustained. BAEZ: What were you able to do in regards to the death of your niece emotionally for six months?
ANTHONY: I don't know the exact time frame. I don't even know when I really came to the belief that I have now that she is no longer with us.
I mean, I could still tell you even with that belief, if there was someone that looked familiar to her today, I would turn my head, it would make me look twice or three times or a hundred times. I don't know when I really -- that really changed for me.
I know last year was particularly hard for me around Caylee's birthday and my birthday. But during the time of the deposition, specifically, and they had even asked me at one point if I believed that she was dead, and I remember it being a big joke to some people, that I didn't want to believe it or couldn't believe it.
At the time I didn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. And right now I do. So I'm -- I have a very, very tough time with that.
BAEZ: Who was it a joke to?
ASHTON: Objection. Relevance.
PERRY: Sustained.
BAEZ: I have no further questions.
HOLMES: All right. Again, I am --
PERRY: Re-cross.
ASHTON: Mr. Anthony, you remember when you testified for the state of Florida? Do you remember?
ANTHONY: July, 2009. I think you referenced it earlier. Yes, sir.
ASHTON: No, no, no. When you testified for the state of Florida, as Mr. Baez pointed to.
ANTHONY: Oh, yes, sir. I apologize. Yes, sir.
ASHTON: How many times did Mr. George have to step up to you and show you your deposition to refresh your recollection about --
BAEZ: Objection, Judge. The record speaks for itself.
ASHTON: It goes to bias, Your Honor.
BAEZ: On relevance.
PERRY: Overruled.
ANTHONY: Probably as many times as I've been shown something here today by yourself or Mr. Baez, a handful of times, two or three times. I don't recall. I wasn't counting.
ASHTON: In your direct examination by Mr. Baez, did he need to refresh your recollection at all?
ANTHONY: He did reference me to a few pages that he asked me to read. I don't believe he qualified anything to say that he did it to refresh my recollection, though. No, sir.
ASHTON: During his initial direct examination, your testimony is you recall him having to refresh your recollection?
ANTHONY: I don't believe so.
ASHTON: Your recollection was just fine for the questions that Mr. Baez asked you in your initial direct, weren't they?
ANTHONY: On all these I believe they were, yes.
ASHTON: But when Mr. George attempted to question you on direct examination, your memory was more troublesome.
ANTHONY: It's hard to remember something you did two years ago, absolutely.
ASHTON: Could I have just for myself and the witness page 31 of the deposition, line 17 through 24? I'm sorry. Line 15 through 24, please.
You were asked the question at the deposition, "Did you say anything to your mom, say, 'Hey, Casey's looking?'" And your answer was, "Probably. At a minimum, probably of passing. I don't think I ever made a big enough deal, because, you know, if my mom didn't make it a big deal or if she shrugged me off or whatever" --
BAEZ: Objection. This is not impeachment.
ASHTON: It is impeachment, Your Honor.
PERRY: Overruled.
ASHTON: "She shrugged me off for whatever reason, than either I was wrong or my sister was just getting fat, or for whatever reason, they don't really want me involved in it either way. You know, whatever, either way."
So, at deposition, your recollection was at best that you probably spoke to your mother.
ANTHONY: That's what this says here, is probably. I do remember speaking to my mother, but that says "probably."
ASHTON: So your recollection is better today than in July of 2009 at the deposition?
ANTHONY: If you assume that because I didn't say the word "probably" today, sure. ASHTON: Well, you will admit your recitation seems to be somewhat not a big deal. I don't really remember it very well, correct?
BAEZ: Argumentative.
PERRY: Sustained as to the last question.
ASHTON: You said "probably at minimum of passing. I don't think I ever made a big deal."
BAEZ: Objection.
Excuse me, Mr. Ashton.
My objection is, this has been asked and answered. He's read this already.
PERRY: Sustained.
ASHTON: If we could go to page 33, please, lines 1 through 8. Read that, please.
ANTHONY: To myself?
ASHTON: Yes, to yourself. And if you need to see the page before, I'd be happy to show it to you.
HOLMES: And quickly, Holly Hughes -- attorney standing by here with me -- what is the prosecutor trying to get at?
HUGHES: Wow. OK, it pains me to say this, T.J., because I think Jeff Ashton is one of the best I've ever seen in all the years I've practiced and I've been watching these trials and covered them. He's pushing the envelope here.
He's trying to prove that Lee Anthony has changed up his testimony. He's making it more dramatic, he's making it more positive toward his sister and his family.
He's trying to show the jury that Lee has a bias, and that bias is to help the defense here when he clearly wasn't trying to help the prosecution. He was called as a prosecution witness earlier, and it was very difficult for Mr. George, who was the prosecutor questioning him at the time, to draw that information out. It was like pulling teeth.
And he constantly goes, well, I don't remember. That was so long ago, I don't know. And so Mr. George, the prosecutor, kept having to say, look back at your deposition.
What Jeff Ashton is doing is pointing out to the jury, hey, but today, when Mr. Baez, the defense attorney, questions him, suddenly he doesn't have trouble remembering. He's much clearer three years after the fact. And that should not be the case. I mean, memory fades.
But he has got to be careful here. This is emotional testimony. This is a family, no matter what you think of them, in torment.
HOLMES: And we're watching now this video. It looks like they might be done with Lee Anthony, the brother of Casey Anthony. It looks like he has left the stand.
But as you say, it looks like the prosecutor made his point, was, hey, this guy, he didn't remember much when our prosecution talked to him. But when the defense got up, it seemed like his memory was just fine, putting in the jurors' minds that, hey, this guy is up here trying to help his sister out, put some doubt into that testimony.
HUGHES: Absolutely.
HOLMES: Holly Hughes, thank you so much for being here and sticking around with us and walking us through some of what we have been seeing in the courtroom. You're going to be with me, I know, tomorrow as well. Court is going to resume tomorrow, so you're going to be here helping us through it tomorrow morning on "CNN SATURDAY MORNING."
But, Holly Hughes, thank you so much for being here.
HUGHES: You got it. Thank you so much, T.J. A real pleasure.
HOLMES: We're going to take a quick break here, folks. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: All right. Well, he has gone from a notorious gangster in Boston to a reclusive retiree in Santa Monica, and now back to Boston as a captured mobster. You know this story by now.
James "Whitey" Bulger, now in the hands of the FBI after 16 years on the run. He's en route to Boston as we speak, going to face numerous murder charges, also charges of money laundering and several other crimes.
Now, Bulger appeared in a federal district court in Los Angeles yesterday. He was there along with his long time girlfriend, Catherine Greig. She's also facing criminal charges. The two, now headed to Boston, where they will stand trial.
Bulger had a $2 million bounty on his head. The FBI doubled the reward for his girlfriend's capture to $100,000 in an effort to catch them after all these years.
And what do they credit with bringing him to justice finally? This public service announcement.
The FBI started running this just this week. They were targeting older women. They aired this in places where older women might be watching. The thought was that this was the best way to get to Bulger, was through his girlfriend.
So it turns out maybe that worked, because some frequent trips to the beauty salon and some regular teeth cleanings may have been what led police to their front door.
So, what is next for Bulger?
Deb Feyerick is covering the story for us.
Deb, we understand he's expected in Boston. Any word on when he might get there? But he does have a court time at least set up.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, he does, and that's pretty much our barometer, our gauge.
There's a huge truck that just pulled up behind us, so I can't show you the barricades that were set up around the courthouse just a little while ago.
Whitey Bulger and his girlfriend, expected to be brought here under very tight security, transported by U.S. Marshals. They will not confirm whether, in fact, he has landed yet at Logan or one of the nearby airports, but we have seen Boston police, federal police who are also out here, a K-9 dog that is sniffing the perimeter.
As far as anybody knows, T.J., this is the first time he's been in Boston since he disappeared Christmas of 1994, when he were tipped off by a corrupt FBI agent that he was about to be arrested.
Now, he is supposed to be arraigned at 4:00. There are going to be two hearings. One is an initial appearance. The second is an actual arraignment, assuming he has time to meet with lawyers. There's a potential he could enter a guilty plea actuality charges against him, including the multiple counts of murder.
Now, I spoke at length to the FBI's top guy here in Boston, as well as to the U.S. attorney, both of them say they are really satisfied with the outcome. The FBI says that, in fact, they got thousands of leads of the last 16 years. This was an international case. He said finally, though, the right tip came in.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD DESLAURIERS, FBI SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: As it came in as a direct result to the campaign to us. It was furnished to our Los Angeles office and virtually thereafter was relayed back to our command post at the FBI's Washington division, that we set up contemporaneous with the initiation of campaign.
The tip was analyzed, vetted very rapidly and very quickly, but thoroughly. We determined it to have good potential and determined it to be credible. And so, we passed that information back to our Los Angeles field office, who deployed the agents and task force officers to the vicinity of the location in Santa Monica and were able to identify Bulger and Greig there and safely and quickly affect the arrests.
(END VIDEO CLIP) FEYERICK: And, T.J., take a look. That's some of the security. You can see some of the police down there, the barricades that have been set up. Cars, obviously, are slowing down to figure out exactly what's going on here at the courthouse.
But, again, he's scheduled to be arraigned at about 4:00. Security is very tight. At that time, as far as anybody knows, this is going to be the first time he's been back in Boston since he slipped away 16 years ago -- T.J.
HOLMES: All right. Deb Feyerick, thank you.
And, of course, our Deb Feyerick is keeping an eye on this story on one side of the country. But our Kara Finnstrom is keeping an eye on the story still on the other side of the country, in Santa Monica, California. That is where, of course, Whitey Bulger was caught.
Kara, hello to you. Are people still abuzz about what happened certainly in that neighborhood and that apartment complex, that area where this man was found?
KARA FINNSTROM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They are. That's the talk around here all day today. You know, when FBI agents finally got into apartment 303 in this complex behind us where James "Whitey" Bulger and Catherine Greig had been living for up to 15 years, they packed up and they carried off boxes of evidence.
Bulger, agents tell us, was known for wearing disguises, altering his appearance. In this Santa Monica community, he went by the name Charles Gasco.
This is a quiet community. We're just a couple blocks away from the ocean. There's lots of elderly people who live here. So, neighbors here say they were shocked when they found out what was in those boxes of evidence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVEN MARTINEZ, FBI ASST. DIR. IN CHARGE, LOS ANGELES: After the arrests, the FBI's evidence response team conducted a thorough search of the residence and found the following: over $800,000 in cash, more than 30 firearms to include pistols, rifles and shotguns, several types of knives, and several pieces of false identification.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FINNSTROM: Now, this apartment complex is also just five miles away from the FBI's Westwood office. The FBI has come under widespread criticism for its handling of this case for how long it took them to find them. So, yesterday, that FBI assistant director, Steven Martinez, you heard from, was also asked by reporters if the agency was embarrassed that he was found here in plain sight. And his response was that the situation wasn't embarrassing but that it was challenging. And then, of course, he stressed that now, he's in custody. HOLMES: All right. Our Kara Finnstrom for us, again, where Whitey Bulger was caught, now on his way to Boston. Kara, we appreciate you. Thanks so much.
All right. We're at the bottom of the hour now and we are keeping an eye on, once again, historic flooding that is threatening to wipe out a North Dakota town. We will take you there live, coming up.
But, first, she has been fighting to save sex trafficking victims for decades in India where she's raided brothels and patrol border crossings to rescue and rehabilitate more than 12,000 women and girls. Her amazing work earned her the title of CNN Hero of the Year in 2010. This year, she's working with actress and activist Demi Moore on a special project to save sex trafficking victims.
We want to reintroduce you to one of our heroes of the year.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDURADHA KOIRALA, CNN HERO: In the West, America, Europe, if someone comes and says, "I want to make your child a prostitute, they would give them a slap or shoot them." But here, families, they are tricked all the time.
Girls are brought from the villages by people who can lure them and tell them that they're getting a nice job.
The border between India and Nepal is the conduit point of trafficking. Once they're here, there is no way to escape.
I am Anuradha Koirala, and it is my strong hope to stop every Nepali girl from being trafficked.
When you go to the border exit points, we are intercepting four girls to five girls per day.
After the rescue, the girl is taken to Maiti, Nepal.
We started this to accommodate rape survivors and trafficking survivors. We take everybody.
The girls who come back from brothels, they are totally psychologically broken.
We give them whatever work they want to do, whatever training they want to do
One day, we will really stop it. The trafficking will end. These are all convicted. There is always a small scar that yes, one day, I was trafficked. But today, I'm something new in my life. They are my strength.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) T.J. HOLMES: Potentially damaging evidence has been discovered on a cell phone belonging to Osama bin Laden's trusted courier. According to "The New York Times," the phone was seized during the U.S. raid that killed bin Laden last month in Pakistan. "The Times" says contacts on that cell phone are those of a militant group that's an asset of Pakistan's powerful spy agency known as the ISI.
Let's bring in Michael Holmes here now.
Michael, good to see you.
Smoking gun or not?
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR/CORRESPONDENT: Not really. No. It doesn't actually prove -- of course, the big suspicion was whether the intelligence services, the ISI, had been protecting Osama bin Laden.
This group -- this group has links to the ISI. There's no doubt about it. The ISI helped set them up, monitors them and controls them to some extent. But there's no actual evidence, we're told, that links the contacts between the courier, to this group, back to the ISI.
It's significant. I mean, we'll give you background, of course.
The Navy SEALs ended up getting Osama bin Laden because of good intelligence of this trusted courier. They tracked him back to this place in Abbottabad and the courier was one of those who were killed.
They got that treasure trove of stuff, the computer drives and cell phones and the like. And when they went through the cell phone, which belonged to the courier, they found these contacts. The group is called Harakat-ul-Mujahedeen.
What it shows is that Osama bin Laden was using this group as part of his support system in Pakistan. The group has a lot of roots in this particular area, deep roots in the area, in fact. And so, they chose that. It doesn't necessarily show that the ISI was directly involved, although a lot of people believe they were.
T.J. HOLMES: But even not the smoking gun as you said. But at the same time in the next breath, you said this is still significant. But it's still raising some questions. The possibility is still there, there was that connection.
M. HOLMES: Absolutely. You know, the ISI, when you go back in time, OK, the ISI back in the '80s actually formed a lot of militant groups or groups that then worked as proxies, if you like, fighting in Afghanistan, fighting in Kashmir, basically doing the bidding of the ISI, doing the dirty work, if you like.
What has happened in recent years is a lot of those groups have come back and bitten them in the you-know-what because a lot of those groups have now been carrying out terror attacks in Pakistan. This particular group not so much accused of carrying out attacks in Pakistan, but they are very active and still link to the ISI.
So, the ISI is very a mysterious group. The government doesn't even know half the time what the ISI is doing. And that's what often been a criticism.
It would be like having the CIA running around and doing all sorts of things, and the government not being able to find out what it was doing. Very suspicious group. Very suspicious.
And, of course, you had Osama bin Laden living, you know, a two- minute drive from a military installation in an area that's controlled by or has links with this militant group, that has links with the ISI.
T.J. HOLMES: Last thing, are we getting any response to this "New York Times" reporting from the ISI or the Pakistani government?
M. HOLMES: Not from the -- well, they're denying it. They also have a group that's denying it. They say, we didn't have contact with him.
They did have contact with al Qaeda over the years. They set up joint training camps and certainly had a lot of links, and Osama bin Laden knew the leader of this group. But they're saying they had no contact with Osama bin Laden in recent years. You take that with a grain of salt.
T.J. HOLMES: Michael Holmes, good to see you as always, buddy.
M. HOLMES: Good to see you, mate.
T.J. HOLMES: Thank you so much.
And to our audience, we are going to be going live to a town in North Dakota, coming up -- a town that some will tell you is about to be wiped out by flooding.
Stay with us.
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HOLMES: We are closely monitors what's happened in Minot, North Dakota. The mayor says the flood is hitting the city deeper, faster and harder than they expected. The situation is growing more urgent literally by the hour. You see the river that we're talking about here. It's rising to levels never seen before.
The map shows how the river snakes its way from Canada right through Minot, North Dakota. It's just exceeded record levels set 130 years ago. A real threat now, the flood could wipe out North Dakota's fourth largest city, a third of the town displaced now -- 12,000 people already under evacuation orders, and more people could be forced to leave their homes soon.
Emergency crews are fighting to build makeshift levees and are fighting to save what they can of the town. But you can see, it is too late for some homes and businesses already. Let's bring in our Jim Spellman standing by.
Jim, even in the last hour since I talked to you, we're talking about this a, literally, a minute by minute, hour by hour. This thing is changing. I guess, how is it changing hour by hour?
JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, people are starting to call this Lake Minot, T.J.
We have been sitting here all day, basically watching this little part of Minot essentially disappear. This looks like a quite, this is one of the main intersections, right by city hall here. This is a road that went down underneath a railroad trestle here into the main part of the evacuation area here.
And we just watched the street signs and everything. You can see how high it is up to these traffic lights.
But what's really impressive, T.J., is even though it surpassed the record, this water is going to rise about another seven feet. So, I'm 6'3''. That means this much more water.
And that's really going to put even these makeshift dikes that have been built around city hall and the police station into jeopardy. They're just about at that level. They're shoring them up all day, adding sandbags around some of the buildings, plastic draping. But they're just running of time.
Originally, they thought that this river would crest on Tuesday, and then it was Monday, and then it was Sunday. Now, we're thinking tomorrow night. They're just running out of options, T.J.
HOLMES: And we talked about these evacuation orders. Are more evacuation orders possibly coming?
SPELLMAN: It's possible, but at this point, honestly, they've gotten everybody out of the valley of the city that they can. It's sort of a low area along the river right in the middle of city essentially dividing Minot in half. And so, they got everybody out of that low-lying area up.
They've known for at least a few days that this was going to be catastrophic there. Not a little bit of water on your basement, not even on your first floor, but water most likely up to the roof lines of most of the homes in the evacuation area -- T.J.
HOLMES: All right. Our Jim Spellman, keeping an eye on things for us there. Jim, we appreciate you as always.
We want to remind our viewers, remind you or tell you right now, we have been watching the Casey Anthony trial. You saw the testimony of her brother, Lee Anthony, a short time ago. Now, it appears they have called her mother, Cindy, back to the stand.
We are going to go and listen in to this now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it before or after Caylee was born?
CINDY ANTHONY, DEFENDANT'S MOTHER: Caylee was supposed to be born in September. We had the shower slated for August the 13th, and Caylee was born on the 9th. So I had to switch the invitations. I had to contact everybody and change the date of the baby shower.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just so we're clear, though, was the baby shower held before Caylee was born or after Caylee was born?
ANTHONY: I just stated it was after Caylee was born because Caylee came a month early.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand that. I just wanted to be clear about that.
Your honor, may I approach the witness?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You may.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that -- what is that a photograph of? Defense -- I'm sorry. Excuse me. I'm showing you defense exhibit E.R.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your honor, Mr. Baez has shown these series of photographs, and I have an objection to all of them in relevance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pardon?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Baez has shown these photographs to me and I have an objection on the series of them on grounds of relevance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. We'll wait until you set (ph) it all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I object to a description of the photograph prior to its submission.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. All you need to do is establish does she recognize it, and whether or not it adequately and accurately describes the subject matter therein. And you can offer them, and we'll see if they object.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you recognize the photograph, Mrs. Anthony?
ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it a true and accurate depiction of what it actually is?
ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this time, your honor, I would move exhibit E.R. into evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's E.R. I'm sorry, sir.
I would have an objection at this point as indicated on relevance grounds.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want to approach the sidebar, Mr. Baez?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
HOLMES: Well, it appears here we go again. We have seen actually a lot of this throughout the day today when her mother was on the stand earlier, her mother is on the stand again now. Her brother was on the stand a little earlier, but there were a lot of these sidebars with the attorneys discussing things -- things that we, the public, and the people, a lot of people in the courtroom, were not able to hear.
But Cindy Anthony, the mother of Casey Anthony, back on the stand right now.
We'll continue to keep an eye on what's happening there in the courtroom and certainly take you back to that as they get going again, if they get going again here in the next few minutes.
Quick break here in the CNN NEWSROOM. We'll be right back.
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HOLMES: All right. Again, the attorneys, the prosecution and defense attorneys huddling with the judge there on the side. We've seen a lot of these take place today, where they had a break in testimony so attorneys could get together and do what attorneys do over there on the side, talking to the judge.
But you're Casey Anthony, the trial continues. Her mother is back on the stand right now. We are expecting that testify to resume at any moment. We'll certainly keep you posted there.
Meanwhile, we're going to take a break here and go to some politics now. And we turn to our political update from our CNN deputy director, Paul Steinhauser, in Washington for us.
Paul, always good to see you.
What's going on with the president here? He missed a major Latino conference, and I assume somebody is letting him hear about that.
PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, I think there are some people that maybe a little upset with that. You know, Latino voters, T.J., we can't say enough of how important Latino and Hispanic voters are. And with every election, they become more influential.
The conference we're talking about is called NALEO or National Association of Latino Elected Officials. It's going on right now in San Antonio. We've got some representatives there from CNN covering the event.
The president is not there. He's got a lot on his schedule, the White House says. They say that, you know, him not going is not a reflection of him not caring at all about Latinos and Hispanics. And they say what he does every day when it comes to working on the economy and trying to progress immigration legislation is proof.
But let's be honest, there has been no immigration reform as he talked about when he was running for president. That has upset some Latinos.
We have Congressman Luis Gutierrez, Democrat of Illinois on CNN earlier today and he said, listen, you know, obviously still a supporter of the president, but he said appearances do matter. And the fact that the president isn't there, well, that is troubling to him, T.J.
HOLMES: All right. And you talked a second ago, and everybody understands how important the Hispanic vote is. But can you help put that in some kind of a perspective here? Just how important?
STEINHAUSER: Yes. Oh, yes. Let's look at some numbers.
First of all, let's take a look at the percentage of Latinos and Hispanics who voted for Democrats in the last couple of elections. And you go back to 2004. And you can see from '04 to '06 to '08, there was definitely an increase of Democrats voting for -- I'm sorry, Latinos and Hispanics voting for Democrats.
Look at that, going from 53 percent in 2004 to 69 and 67 percent. But look at that, it dropped off a little bit in the midterms last year. Only 60 percent of Hispanics voted for the Democrats, and I think that may be troubling.
Go the next graphic as well. This is the president's approval rating among Latinos and Hispanics. And look at that, look at the drop from 2009 to this spring, 63 percent.
But I will that 63 percent, T.J., is still higher than the president's approval rating overall right now among all Americans. That's in the mid-40s to upper 40s, to maybe right around 50.
And one more thing, let's look to next year. There are four states where the Latino and Hispanic vote could be crucial, crucial, in the race for the White House -- those battleground states. I'm talking about Florida, Nevada, New Mexico, and Colorado. Those four states, the Latino and Hispanic vote could be crucial.
These are battleground states that both the president wants to win and, of course, the Republicans like to grab back. And, T.J., These states are also important in control of the Senate as well.
HOLMES: All right. Well, Paul, appreciate you as always, the update from our "Political Ticker." Thank you so much.
And we're going to head back now -- we told you that Cindy Anthony, the mother of Casey Anthony, is back to the stand, testifying in her daughter's defense. Let's listen back in as she is -- it looks like the attorneys did break their huddle. It looks like the questioning continues.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this a photograph taken at your brother's wedding?
ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And is it a photograph of you and your daughter?
ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And at the time that that photograph was taken, did you believe that your daughter was pregnant?
ANTHONY: No, I did not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did anyone advise you that your daughter was pregnant?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Objection.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exception to the hearsay rule, Mr. Baez?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll withdraw the question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Judge, at this time I would move into evidence this as defense exhibit A.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: State?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Same objection as previously lodged on relevance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The objection is overruled. That would be admitted.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That will become defense number 66.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mrs. Anthony, who attended the baby shower?
ANTHONY: Casey's grandmothers, her aunts, some of my friends, Jesse Grund's mother, neighbors.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was Lee present?
ANTHONY: No, none of the guys were present.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have no further questions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You may.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No further questions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cross examination?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No questions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The witness may stand down.
ANTHONY: Thank you.
