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Atlantis Liftoff Bittersweet For Many; Tabloid Scandal Spreads; Is College a Waste of Money?; Shuttle Flies Into History Books; XYZ: When Did 'Compromise' Become a Dirty Word?

Aired July 08, 2011 - 13:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: For you folks out there who are under the age of 30, you have never known a time when America was not flying space shuttles. In just a couple weeks, you will. We are now about two-and-a-half hours into the 135th and final shuttle mission. If you didn't catch the lift-off live, you know you want to.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NASA ANNOUNCER: -- 2, 1, 0 and lift-off! The final lift-off of Atlantis on the shoulders of the space shuttle. America will continue the dream.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now, the weather was a big iffy today but when the big moment came the skies were fair and clear enough. The crowds were huge. The emotions were high and a sentimental journey into history, as NASA calls it, gets off the ground.

Now, right now, Atlantis is in round about pursuit of the International Space Station where it will drop off supplies and come back to Earth 12 or 13 days from now. What you're seeing now is a briefing that is taking place, some of the NASA administrators are giving the press an update on this.

Now, we're expecting the shuttle to come back and land on July 20th. That would be the 42nd anniversary of man's first steps on the moon. Since the first shuttle took off in April of 1981, five orbiters have flown 135 missions with 359 crew members. The final mission has just four crew members. That's the fewest we've seen in years. Shuttle fleet has traveled more than half a billion miles and that number, literally, is growing as we speak.

I want to speak now at Kennedy Space Center with CNN's John Zarrella as well as our meteorologist, Chad Myers.

John, let me start with you. Yes, you are covering this story. You have been covering these stories for a long time but you can't help but get a little caught up in the emotion of the day.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, there was no question about it, T.J., this being the last one. You know, I think I've said several times that every time before this I've know that there was going to be another one to come and now as the shuttle was clearing the tower, you know, it really hit me that, well, that's it. There won't be any more of these to see and, you know, it's still quite uncertain as to when we will see another U.S. rocket lifting off from the launch pads behind us here.

Hopefully, sooner rather than later but -- but that's still to be seen and, as you mentioned, the NASA management team is holding a debriefing right now, just around the corner from where we are here and Bob Cabana, who is the director of the Kennedy Space Center and himself a former astronaut, he talked about how -- and -- and really put it in real terms. Look, you know, we know there's going to be tough times ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB CABANA, DIRECTOR OF NASA'S JOHN F. KENNEDY SPACE CENTER: We're going to be going through a tough time. Change is hard and we're going to have more folks walking out the door here in a few weeks and, you know, they were and are performing their job absolutely flawlessly right up to the end and that -- that says a lot for them. It speaks to that professionalism. Change is difficult but you can't do something else, you can't do something better unless you go through change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZARRELLA: You know, and he mentioned the fact that people are walking out the door and that's very true. You know, you're going to be losing, just here at the Kennedy Space Center alone, a phase out of about 7000 jobs, mostly contractor jobs, United Space Alliance jobs and others but, 7000 here. I know over in Promontory, Utah, where they made the solid rocket boosters for 30 years, they've already lost over 2000 workers there.

So, the end of the shuttle program is affecting people all across the United States, T.J. and the sooner the United States gets back in the space business the better off, I think, everybody's going to be. T.J.?

HOLMES: John, help us understand here as well, this was the -- this is the last mission and we have seen crews, I think, roughly six or seven on a crew, only four on this one.

ZARRELLA: Yes, yes.

HOLMES: You -- you would think they would want to pack as many people on the last one as they could but, why only four on this trip?

ZARRELLA: Here's the reason. Because if they had some sort of an accident on the way to the International Space Station, an accident that would have allowed them to get there but say the shuttle was damaged and they couldn't come back on the shuttle, it would take -- it's going to take -- it would take a year, one astronaut every three months coming back on a Soyuz spacecraft and there wouldn't be enough consumables on board the International Space Station to sustain everybody if they had flown seven, plus the six that are on there, 13 people, for the year that it would take to get that shuttle crew off.

So, that's the reason they went with four instead of seven because with the number four there would have been enough consumables on board to sustain everybody until they could get all those shuttle people back home, back to earth, on Russian Soyuz rockets. That's the reason.

HOLMES: Well, they think of everything don't they there at NASA?

ZARRELLA: Yes, they do.

HOLMES: That is incredible. John, we appreciate you, we're going to be talking to you again, seeing you again soon.

ZARRELLA: Absolutely.

HOLMES: Chad, let me turn to you and this weather situation. They told us only a 30 percent, a 30 percent chance that the shuttle would take off today but it took off just fine so, it was just a lucky break in that one moment when they needed that lucky break.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Either that or you just think that 30 percent of the day was going to be good and 70 percent of the day wasn't going to be good and we got lucky and got in that 30 percent hole. The reason why we can't fly this thing through the rain is because of the tiles. The tiles -- this is a mockup that is at the visitor center but a real shuttle, a retired shuttle will be here within a couple of years for you to see live and in person. If the tiles get wet, water can get around them and in between them and then in just a few seconds after this thing goes through that cloud it's going to be 70 degrees below zero up in the stratosphere and all that water will freeze.

So, we had a cloud deck that looked just like this and it was bigger than this yesterday, a cloud deck just like this all morning long. Finally, at about 10 o'clock we saw some breaks in the clouds, the sun came out, the sun warmed the atmosphere just enough that more breaks came and the breaks and the thinning clouds went right over the shuttle launch station, right at the exact right time. We had just that small window to get it so it was condition red most of the morning. It was condition green for about 40 minutes, the right 40 minutes, and it's been red the rest of the afternoon because now showers are coming our way.

HOLMES: OK, what are they going to have to deal with on the wave back? How serious is the weather situation? How critical is the weather for the landing?

MYERS: Yes, no rain at all within a long -- I mean, hundreds of miles around. Because, not only when you go up you just have to go through one small hole. As you come down, you have to fly through the atmosphere and so as you fly through the atmosphere you're covering a lot more ground. You can't get that 1000, 2000, 5000 degree tile here wet with rain or it's going to crack. Now, that said, you couldn't reuse it. This time, we don't have to reuse it so maybe the criteria, you know, maybe they came down just a little bit to get them back down but, you know what, everybody wants them down safely. They're up there now. Get them back down. We've got them back down all the other times except for just for Columbia and that was just a -- a fluke of the ice on the -- the orange foam. This one here, they'll go up there, they'll check for that, see if any foam did come off as they land again here in just a couple of weeks, it'll be right back down there and there is a huge party. It's going to be a big celebration on the landing pad here at Kennedy.

HOLMES: All right. Chad Myers there for us. Chad, good to see you as always. Thanks so much. Well, it's 7 minutes past the hour now. We turn to our sound effect and today it is the U.S. Labor market. Have you seen this yet? The numbers are out and they were not pretty. The economy added just 18,000 jobs last month. That is far fewer than was predicted by those economists out there and also it's far fewer than needed for a meaningful jobs recovery. The jobless rate, that unemployment rate also went up from 9.1 percent to 9.2 percent. Here now, the President.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today's job report confirms what most Americans already know. We still have a long way to go and a lot of work to do to give people the security and opportunity that they deserve. We've added more than 2 million new private sector jobs over the past 16 months but the recession cost us more than 8 million and that means that we still have a big hole to fill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: The President now searching for a grand bargain with Republicans and Congress to slash deficits while raising the nation's debt ceiling. If the ceiling is not raised by August 2nd, the U.S. risks a first ever default on some of its obligations. As for unemployment, the Bloomberg poll from last month shows only 38 percent of Americans approve of the President's efforts to create jobs, about 6 in 10 disapprove.

Now some other stories making headlines. Now, in Alabama, civil rights groups filed a lawsuit today challenging the state's new immigration law, the law which is seen as the toughest in the nature was signed by Governor Bentley last month, said to take effect September 1st.

The lawsuit claims Alabama's law would subject residents to criminal penalties for innocent daily activities such as giving a ride to a neighbor, hiring a day laborer, or renting a room to a friend.

A spokeswoman for Alabama's Attorney General just issued this statement saying they have not yet received a copy of the complaint and have no comment at this time other than the state, under state law, acts of our legislature are presumed to be constitutional. In the British tabloid hacking scandal, now tied to the top tier of the government there. British Prime Minister David Cameron's former press secretary has been arrested in this case. Andy Coulson is his name. He has been editor of "News of the World," although he is a former editor. He resigned that position in the wake of allegations that the paper intercepted phone messages of murder and terror victims, politicians, celebrities, but he denied any knowledge of the activities. Cameron is now calling for a thorough investigation into the scandal.

Also, Britain's Prince William and his wife, Catherine, they're headed to the U.S. today. They wrapped up their nine day Canadian tour with a parade and a trip to the rodeo in Calgary, Alberta. That explains the hats there. The royal newlyweds have been a big hit there in Canada. Their next test is Los Angeles. They will spend three days in the U.S.

So, that's a handful of the nearly million people that packed the Florida -- the Florida coast to witness history today. The emotions as Atlantis blasted off one last time. We are taking you to Florida next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NASA ANNOUNCER: Two, one, zero and lift off. The final lift off of Atlantis on the shoulders of the space shuttle America will continue the dream.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES;: And, with that, Atlantis blasted its way into history and nearly a million people were there to see it. They packed the Florida coast to watch the end of an era, knowing they may never see a moment like this again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm glad to see that, you know, I got to be a part of history, you know, the beginning and the end because of something new that's coming after this and I got to be here with all these people here and wonderful Americans to experience that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: A lot of people were looking for the best way to put this moment into words and just moments before the Commander of Atlantis maybe said it best.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COL. CHRISTOPHER FERGUSON, ATLANTIS SHUTTLE COMMANDER: The shuttle is always going to be a reflection of what a great nation can do when it dares to be bold and commits to follow through. We're not ending the journey today, Mike, we're completing a chapter of a journey that will never end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Let's turn now to Port Canaveral, Florida. That is where our Carol Costello is. She was there with a million of her friends a little earlier today watching this launch and Carol, what was the mood? Was it excitement? Was it a little bit of sweet, sentimental, and even patriotic? What would you -- what would you classify it as?

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I would say most of all it was patriotic because when that shuttle lifted off, T.J., there were chants of U.S.A., U.S.A. We always talk about how, you know, the country is not unified but, today, just for a moment there was unity here because people came to Port Canaveral, about 15 miles away from Cape Canaveral. They pulled over off the side of the road because route 528 is right here. You can see the traffic.

People are still coming back from -- from where they watched the shuttle. But, people gathered from all over America. I met people from Missouri and Tennessee and Kentucky and Washington state and Texas. There were people here from New Zealand and Australia and everybody was here to share this beautiful experience. When that shuttle blasted off you could hear the joy emanating from people. Listen.

(VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: And everybody is in their car right now T.J. but earlier this spot was full of thousands and thousands of people. There were T-shirt vendors. One guy even had a telescope mounted on the back of his pickup truck. People were very excited. But, the only people left now are the people watching the dolphins. If you ever get a chance to come to Port Canaveral and I know there won't be any more shuttle missions but I'm telling you, dolphin after dolphin diving out of that water, another amazing sight for me to behold today. So, I'm one lucky person, what can I say?

HOLMES: Carol Costello there for us. It certainly was a day. Again, she was surrounded by people earlier, most of them on the road now. But, Carol, good to see you as always. Thank you so much.

Well, we are a quarter past the hour. We're going to have to turn overseas here in just a moment and rescuers are working right now. They are trying to find survivors of a plane crash. The latest on this crash in the DRC is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Well, 18 minutes past the hour. A couple of stories that are making headlines right now in the Democratic Republic of Congo, rescue crews are scrambling right now to save passengers from an airplane crash that has killed at least four dozen people. At least 40 survivors have been pulled from that plane. Airline officials say the Boeing 727 crashed today with more than 100 passengers on board as it was trying to land in bad weather. Also, a Texas Rangers fan fell 20 feet, head first, to his death at a game last night. The man was at this game with his son when he reached over the railing for a ball that was thrown into the stands by star outfielder Josh Hamilton. The fan was not immediately identified.

Also, as Casey Anthony waits for her freedom on July 17th, four states are already drafting legislation for Caylee's law, which would place tougher requirements on people filing missing reports. Lawmakers reportedly in Florida, Oklahoma, New York, and West Virginia are all proposing some form of Caylee's law. This comes after an online petition for a Caylee's law gained momentum with more than 300,000 signatures.

Now, the final mission to space will offer more insight into the world of medical science. Up next, we take you inside some of the research astronauts will be doing in space.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: And we're getting close to the bottom of the hour here on CNN. Here are some of the stories you may have missed. Ohio State University erasing it's 2010 football season from the record books. It was a 12 and 1 season. Well, that whole season is being vacated now as if it never happened. This is all a part of self-imposed punishment for big time violations of NCAA rules, violations committed by the school's former head football coach, Jim Tressel. OSU is also giving up its Big 10 and Sugar Bowl Championships and placing its football program on two years probation.

Return to Alabama now where civil rights groups have filed a lawsuit today challenging the state's new immigration law. The law, which is seen as the toughest in the nation was signed by Governor Bentley last month, said to take effect September 1st. This lawsuit claims Alabama's law would subject residents to criminal penalties for innocent daily activities such as giving a ride to a neighbor, hiring a day laborer, or renting a room to a friend. Alabama now joins Georgia, Arizona, Utah, and Indiana in defending their tough immigration laws in federal court.

The President is reacting to today's less than stellar jobs numbers. The economy added only 18,000 jobs last month. That is far fewer than expected. The jobless rate went up to 9.2 percent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've added more than 2 million new private sector jobs over the past 16 months. But, the recession cost us more than 8 million and that means that we still have a big hole to fill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: President Obama also urging Congress to work out a debt ceiling plan so more job creation can begin. In the House of Representatives, July recess has been cancelled in light of the recent debate on the debt ceiling. The House Majority Leader, Eric Cantor, informed the GOP Conference that the House will be in session the week of July 18th. Democratic and Republican leaders are still at odds on a debt ceiling deal. Both sides used today's job numbers to further state their cases to the public.

Also, Italian Prime Minister, Silvio Berlusconi has announced he will not seek another term. The embattled Premiere made the statements to a daily newspaper in addition to declining approval ratings, Berlusconi is also fighting charges of financial corruption and abuse of power.

And the Royal newlyweds, Prince William and his wife, Catherine, they are wrapped up -- just wrapping up their tour of Canada with a parade and a trip to the rodeo, explains the hats there. The next stop is Los Angeles. The couple with spend three days in the U.S. with the focus on spreading British social media to a U.S. audience. Police have already sent down warnings to Paparazzi who want to get close to the royal couple. Get licensed or get arrested. Your call.

And Jaycee Dugard, the young woman who was held captive by a California couple for 18 years is now speaking out for the first time. While in captivity she gave birth to two children and in an interview with ABC's Diane Sawyer she talks about how she felt when she first saw her newborn daughter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAYCEE DUGARD, KIDNAPPING SURVIVOR: She was beautiful. I felt -- I felt like I wasn't alone any more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now, Dugard has also written a book about her ordeal. It's called "A Stolen Life," set to be released this month.

And a high level arrest in Britain's own hacking scandal. The details for you as we go "Globe Trekking" next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: That British tabloid hacking scandal is now tied to the top tier of the government there.

British Prime Minister David Cameron's former press secretary, you're seeing him there, has been arrested in the case. His name is Andy Coulson. He had been editor of "News of the World." He resigned that position in the wake of allegations that the paper intercepted phone messages, of murder and terror victims, politicians and celebrities. He denied any knowledge of the activities, however.

CNN's Dan Rivers has more on the scandal that brought down one of Britain's oldest newspapers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(PROTESTERS CHANTING) DAN RIVERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a magnanimous way to end the 168 years of journalistic history. Protesters venting their anger at the antics of the British tabloid "The News of the World" as staffs prepared the paper's final edition.

It started with royal reporter Clyde Goodman, who was jailed in 2007, for hacking into Prince William's phone. Now, it's believed the paper was awash with illegal eavesdropping and bribing policemen.

(on camera): The practices of "The News of the World" in the building behind me here have been widely condemned by old political parties. But the focus on this story has now shifted onto the Prime Minister David Cameron and his decision to hire a former editor of "News of the World" Andy Coulson as his communications guru -- a decision that has come back to haunt him with a vengeance.

DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I'm not hiding from the decision I made. I made the decision. There had been a police investigation. Someone had been sent to prison.

This editor had resigned. He said he didn't know what was happening on his watch, but he resigned when he found out. And I thought it was right to give that individual a second chance.

RIVERS: Almost at the same time the prime minister was speaking, Andy Coulson himself was at a police station, answering questions about whether he sanctioned illegal phone hacking during his tenure at the paper -- a scandal that forced him to stand down first as a journalist and then as a government press adviser, even though he's denied knowing anything about hacking.

Britain's opposition says repairing the damage of Coulson's appointment means the government has a lot to do, like --

ED MILIBAND, LABOUR PARTY LEADER: Apologizing for bringing him into the center of the government machine. And coming clean about what conversations he had with Andy Coulson before and after he was appointed about phone hacking.

RIVERS: But it's not just the P.M.'s relationship with Coulson, it's his alliance with Coulson's former boss, Rebekah Brooks, both close to Cameron. But Rebekah Brooks hasn't been arrested yet, maintaining she knew nothing about phone hacking.

David Cameron has said her offer to resign on Thursday should have been accepted, but she's still in place. That's because Rupert Murdoch remains committed loyal to her.

A week ago, it would have been unthinkable that a British prime minister would suggest one of Murdoch's favorite lieutenants should stand down, such was his influence and power. But as the saying goes, a week is a long time in politics, and these past seven days have seen some tectonic shifts in press power, with many wondering if Murdoch's influence over British politics is now on the way.

Dan Rivers, CNN, London. (END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: And the familiar scene today in Egypt's Tahrir square. Tens of thousands of protestors gathered to pressure the interim government, to put reforms in place and do it now. The new demonstration came five months after it led to the ouster of President Hosni Mubarak. One of the founding members of that movement says protesters will remain in the square until their demands for faster reform are met.

And the U.S. Coast Guard is still searching for seven Americans who went missing when their fishing boat capsized off the coast of Mexico. One American was killed and more than a dozen others were rescued.

Our senior affiliate KRON talked to one survivor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARY HANSON, SURVIVOR: The back end of the boat was under water when I came out of my door. And I looked back, I'd say we were probably about 25 feet that the boat was under water on my side, and it was leaning further and further to port.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now, the Coast Guard says it's already searched 1,400 square miles of ocean and land.

As you may know by now, a historic day for U.S. space flight Atlantis. It blasted off today on the nation's final shuttle mission. We'll get reflections from a former astronaut and the first African American to take a stroll in space.

But, first, she to Thailand to search for her missing daughters who were swept away by a tsunami in 2004. Susanne Janson's life was shattered when she realized her daughters were gone, but she learned to live again by providing for poor children and families and she is this week's CNN hero.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSANNE JANSON, CNN HERO: My father called me and told me that something bad had happened. My daughters (INAUDIBLE) and Josephine (ph) went to Thailand for a vacation with my ex-husband. It was hard to get good information in Sweden. We decided to go to Thailand ourselves and look for them.

When I realized I wouldn't bring them back home alive, I wanted to die. But the Thai people that had suffered so much more, I felt a connection to them and I wanted to give something back.

My name is Susanne Janson. I moved to Thailand because I wanted to help poor Thai children, to make the most of their lives. We are not an orphanage. It's a home for children and families in need. We want to provide these children with their chance to make changes in their lives.

Love is the first thing they need. Second, food. And then get to go school and education.

We want to be as close to a normal family as possible. Of course, we are a very big family.

When something is good, we are happy together. If something bad happens, we cry together.

That's the most important thing working with children. Not so much from the head but a lot of heart. My daughters loved their life, and I wanted to show them that I would survive it, and if I could help my new children to love their lives, at least one good thing came out of it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: We're about 20 minutes at the top of the hour.

We are just getting a statement in from Major League Baseball we want to share from you. You have seen probably by now the story. Unfortunately, a man, a fan at a Texas Rangers game last night died when he fell from the stands. He went down head first some 20 feet as he was trying to reach for a baseball that one of the players just tossed into the crowd so the fans could have.

It was one of these foul balls. It was out of play and oftentimes they'll just toss them up and let the fans have them. He was reaching for it and fell over. He went down 20 feet. He was actually conscious, the players say, as he was leaving on the stretcher, but then died later as her was being rushed to the hospital.

Major League Baseball putting out this statement and I'm just going to quote here for you. It says, "All of us here at Major League Baseball are shocked and saddened over the tragic death of Mr. Stone, the evening, last evening. Our thoughts and prayers are with his son and his entire family. Major League Baseball has the utmost sensitivity to the safety of all the fans that come to our ballparks. Our players are encouraged to be fan-friendly and we will carefully review this incident with our clubs to continue to ensure a safe environment for our fans."

Now, they mentioned the son in the statement there. The son was right there with him and watched his dad go over the railing there. Some of the ball players report that even the man was asking about his son, saying, "Someone check on my son" as he was being taken out.

But an unfortunate incident last night, Major League Baseball alluding to possibly looking at changing not necessarily a policy, but of having the players toss the balls up into the stands, because oftentimes when foul balls, any time the balls go into the stands, fans oftentimes go after them pretty aggressively. We have seen incidents and accidents before, people being injured, but a death here, and it's certainly unfortunate one. But the latest there from Major League Baseball.

We're getting close to 42 minutes past the hour here now. Also, give you a live picture of Canada right now. Actually, Calgary, Alberta -- this is where the royal newlyweds have been in Canada for the past nine days now. They're going to make their way to Los Angeles for a three-day visit after this. This is kind of a going away ceremony. They have certainly been a hit there in Canada with the folks.

Some folks doing some protests against the monarchy, but still, for the most part, you have seen them welcomed in a big way. One of the latest ceremonies they had. They had -- they went to a rodeo, put on the cowboy hats and did the whole thing. Looked like cowboy and cowgirl, the royal cowboy and cowgirl there for a while.

But we're keeping an eye on this ceremony. They're saying bye to Canada, coming down to the U.S. for their first trip as a royal couple. They're going to L.A. for three days, so we'll continue to watch it.

Well, college -- not just a big waste of time and, is it a big waste of money? Our Stream Team, I wish they would have had this conversation with me about 10-plus years ago. We're going to take on this question next.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: College costs. Four years of college, pretty expensive. According to Collegeboard.org, you can expect to pay anywhere from $30,000 to over $100,000 in tuition and fees over four years. Your costs would vary according to whether you attended a public or private school, of course, and whether you stayed in your home state or not. That doesn't include books, supplies, a place to live, et al.

Now, when you look at the Forbes 400 list of the richest people in America, the list is littered with high-profile college dropouts. Folks like Bill Gates, Mike O'Dell, Mike Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs. With that in mind, an interesting argument is being made across the country. Some are saying that it may be better just to opt out of college and its bills altogether.

So that is the question for today's team. For some people, is college a waste of money?

Let me bring in Pedro Noguera, he's a professor of education at NYU, I'm guessing where he might come down on this argument. But also let me bring in Naomi Schaeffer Riley, she's the author of "The Faculty Lounges and Other Reasons Why You Won't Get the College Education You Paid For."

Let me start with you, Naomi. Did I waste my money going to college?

NAOMI SCHAEFFER RILEY, AUTHOR, "THE FACULTY LOUNGES": No, I don't think that you wasted your time. I think college is, for some people, it depends on what you want to do with your life. I mean, if you think about what people want from college, it's kind of a haphazard set of things. You know, one day you could be taking animal behavior and the next day you could be taking intro to psychology.

And basically, the way administrators sort of suggest, it's just an adventure. You know, choose anything in this catalog. We've moved away from requirements, from core requirements in curricula, and so the problem is that colleges really can't justify what it is they're doing with your time.

HOLMES: Professor, let me bring you in.

Would you ever go -- and I'm sure you talked to young people, high school students, maybe middle school students who maybe are thinking about going to school. Would you ever walk into a high school and talk to a group of kids and say, you know what? Maybe some of you all shouldn't be going to college, it's not for you?

PROF. PEDRO NOGUERA, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: Well, I would, because some of them are not ready for college. Some are not academically prepared or emotionally prepared for college.

At the same time, I would also say this, that the data is very clear, people with a college degree earn substantially more money on average than people without a college degree, and we shouldn't be fooled by a few exceptions there.

So a college degree generally is worth it. The question is, how much debt should you take on and how serious are you when you plan to take it? It used to be a lot of 18-year-olds would go off to college to grow up, and that's simply a luxury that many cannot afford and their parents certainly can't afford it.

HOLMES: And let's turn to some of those stats you were mentioning. Let's bring up the June unemployment rate by education.

All right, we know that the unemployment rate went up to 9.2 percent, but if we look at this, 4.4 percent is the unemployment rate for people with bachelor's degrees, it's 8.4 percent with people who have some college. It goes up to 10 percent if you just have a high school education, 14.3 percent if you have less than that high school diploma.

So, Naomi, let me bring you back in here. Is it just a matter of some people -- and he was right, the professor there saying, don't be fooled by that small list of people who have made it big. But for the most part, do we need to balance the cost of the college to see if it's really worth it, because we know a lot of people are out there with a degree and unemployed still?

RILEY: Right. I don't advise people not to go to college, if that's the question. But I do think that if we are going to go to college, we need to be wise consumers.

So the first thing I tell people is when they're going to visit college, they should think not just about the piece of paper they get at the end, but also about the education that goes on in those four years.

You know, go sit in on a class; don't visit college in the middle of summer. Ask yourself in that class, can I learn in a classroom of 600 people? Who is in the front of the class teaching me? Is it someone who cares about teaching or just someone doing obscure research?

So, you know, in my opinion, we just need to be sort of more proactive consumers and not just assume that the piece of paper that we get at the end is the whole thing. What are we doing with those four years of our lives?

HOLMES: And, Professor, I'll let you wrap this up for me.

Do we need to balance, though, how much we pay for college? People want to go to prestigious universities that cost a lot of money. Sometimes do you need to look into that and say, hey, maybe you don't need to go to the big school or the Ivy League school? You can get a good education and not end up with all that debt and maybe it's the school down the street in your hometown.

NOGUERA: Absolutely. I think when you look at this large debt that students are taking on and how long it takes them to pay off, then I really do think it makes us think about which schools we're going to, is it worth it and at what cost.

But I also think it's important to think about what you're going to study when you go to college and how likely are you going to get a job. It used to be that we used to tell students, just study whatever you have a passion for. Well, that might be nice, but maybe you have a double major and make sure you do something practical where you know there will be a job in the future, because we have a lot of people out there still today with college degrees who can't find jobs that are paying them a decent salary and they're frustrated because of it.

HOLMES: Pedro Noguera, again, and also Naomi Schaefer Riley. I wish I had had you guys on my speed dial a few years ago. We could have had this conversation, I could have used you.

Guys, good to see you, as always. You all enjoy your weekend. Thanks so much.

As we get close to the hop of the hour, we're going to turn back now to the historic day for U.S. space travel. The space shuttle Atlantis lifted off shortly before noon today in the final mission of the nation's space shuttle program.

Let me bring in now former NASA astronaut Dr. Bernard Harris. He knows what it's like on launch day, and he's the first African- American to take a stroll in space.

Dr. Harris, good to have you here joining me from Indianapolis today.

Tell me the truth, did you shed a tear today?

DR. BERNARD HARRIS, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT: Just a very small one. I was pretty excited to have they guys lift off.

HOLMES: Oh, come on, you boo-hooed today, didn't you?

(LAUGHTER)

HARRIS: Not quite, but it was wonderful to see that they did get into space.

HOLMES: You said it's wonderful to see, though, but everybody is using the word bittersweet. Is that the right word to describe it, or are you kind of sad to see it go, or are you happy to see NASA moving on?

HARRIS: I think everybody is right, I think it's both. I'm sad to see it go because that was the vehicle, the system that got me on two space missions traveling over 2.7 million miles and now we're coming to the end of that program, but it also marks a new beginning for NASA and where it's heading in the future.

HOLMES: Do we have a danger here, though, Dr. Harris, in that people know of NASA and we're not sure what NASA astronauts do on a day-to-day basis. There are thousands and thousands of people down there working in Florida, but day to day, we don't know. People know this day, and they can turn on the TV and get excited about this event.

Do we have a danger now that people lose that enthusiasm for NASA or space travel because they don't have these things they can see and get excited about?

HARRIS: Well, I think there always is that challenge that's going to occur, because now we're going to have this gap between our ability as a country to send human beings into space. But still, we'll be sending in upwards of five to six Americans every year going forward, and, I'm talking about this new beginning, there is going to be an opportunity for more innovation, more technology development, more companies involved in how we do that. And I think that's going to generate a different level of interest.

HOLMES: Now, before the American people, how long will it take? You're talking about that other interest there, but again, everyone gets excited about launch day. How long before we have something else like this, whether that's another vehicle taking off in the U.S. or any of these other innovations you're talking about? How long do we have to wait before we get that spark again?

HARRIS: You know, I think that you're going to see several sparks along the way. Already this week there is an announcement by Lockheed Martin of a new vehicle. I think as you see more and more of these companies develop their vehicles, they're going to be putting out press releases about the different milestones that they are accomplishing, and I think that's going to breed a different kind of excitement in the American people. In terms of a mission to the moon or a mission to Mars which generate the excitement, say, that the Apollo program did, you know, it will be a few years before that happens.

HOLMES: All right. Dr. Bernard Harris, it's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you today. I appreciate you composing yourself together, composing yourself after boo-hooing like you did earlier --

(LAUGHTER)

HOLMES: -- but it's good to talk to you, as always. Thanks so much, buddy. Good to see you. You have a good weekend, all right?

HARRIS: All right.

HOLMES: All right, our Political Ticker is coming your way next. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Our deputy political director Paul Steinhauser joins me now with our Political Update.

Paul, go.

PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: T.J., hey, listen, you've been talking all the last couple hours about that unemployment level up to 9.2 percent. So the big question is: Who is to blame?

Check out this poll, recent poll by CBS and "The New York Times" and you may find this surprising. Look at that. More people right there blame the pre-administration, the Bush administration then the current administration, the Obama administration.

You can see there about one in four blaming the Bush administration. One in four also blaming Wall Street, only 8 percent that say that the Obama administration is responsible for the current economic conditions.

But T.J., let's be honest, by next year, by next November when the president is up for reelection, this is going to be his economy pretty much by then. The buck stops at the White House.

Hey, one other thing let's talk about, Rick Perry, the Texas governor. Is he going to run for the Republican presidential nomination? He says he will decide probably maybe by next month.

But guess what? There is a group out there right now called Americans for Rick Perry. It's an independent group, but they've raised $400,000 over the last three weeks. They're going to spend that money in Iowa to try to convince Rick Perry to run for the GOP nomination.

T.J., that's what I got. Back to you, man.

HOLMES: Appreciate you, as always, get through that for us. Paul Steinhauser, thanks so much.

And your next update from "The Best Political Team on Television" is just an hour away.

And for the "XYZ" of today, you know the NBA and the NFL are both in lockouts right now. The lockouts threaten their seasons all because they couldn't reach a deal before deadline.

Minnesota's government is shutdown right now. They couldn't reach a deal before deadline.

Now a financial catastrophe is looming if Democrats and Republicans don't reach a deal on the debt ceiling before deadline.

What in the world is going on with us right now? We can't compromise anymore, it seems. At least we can't compromise until we take ourselves to the brink of disaster. Compromise for a lot of people these days seems to be a dirty word.

In the case of the NFL and the NBA, if they don't reach a deal, our lives are going to go on. Not compromising on the debt ceiling, though, and a lot of Americans will be affected.

Lawmakers not compromising in time in Minnesota, you know what that's meant? It means 20,000 state workers are out of jobs right now, it means benefits to programs for children and the homeless have been stopped right now.

So a lot of people like to celebrate people who are hold outs, people who go at it alone, people who stick to their guns. That's fine, but stick to your guns on your own dime and make sure it doesn't affect anybody else.

That's the "XYZ" of it.

Time for the NEWSROOM to continue right now with E.D. Hill who is in for Brooke Baldwin.

It's all yours.

E.D. HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Compromise -- you take last hour, I'll take this hour and share it with Brooke.