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Roadblock in National Debt Negotiations; Powerful Earthquake Hits Japan

Aired July 09, 2011 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, HOST: Good evening, everyone. I'm Don Lemon. We're going to start with breaking news tonight. We're starting with two big news stories. The first one, a roadblock tonight in negotiations over the nation's debt. The president and the House speaker both making statements in just the past hour. We're going to tell you what they said.

Also an earthquake, a powerful one has hit Japan. A tsunami warning has been issued and that's where we're going to start right now.

The Japanese coast that has just hit the hardest by the earthquake earlier this year is under a tsunami warning at this hour. It is a magnitude 7 quake. It struck off the coast just about an hour ago. The tremor was felt as far as far away as Tokyo. And we're going to go to CNN's Ivan Cabrera who joins us now, our meteorologist here.

Ivan, what does this all mean? And this an aftershock from the big quake?

IVAN CABRERA, CNN WEATHER CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely it's an aftershock. It's a 7.0. It's a pretty strong one here, but this is an automatic thing that they do here in Japan. When you get a 7.0 approximately 100 miles east of the coast, it was strong enough or it could trigger an earthquake. In the United States, we think of it as -- say you have a tornado warning as a result of a DOPPLER indicated cell. We don't know if the tornado is on the ground. Same thing here. We don't know if a tsunami has been generated, but certainly could have.

It's happened essentially 131 miles to the east of Sendai which is right where the Fukushima plant is, of course. And they are going to take all precautions there necessary.

They are expecting as far as a tsunami, if it does occur, anywhere within a few minutes here. And we're estimating just about three feet. So again, this is not going to be a significant situation here for the folks across Japan.

We have had this before. This has happened before. We've had these magnitude quakes after the big one here. We've had these tsunami advisories that have been essentially put on because these can generate a tsunami. And that's why they are taking all precautions necessary right now.

So what happens is, the alarms go off on the coast. There obviously, is going to be a lot of folks that their nerves that are going to be rattled, one, because they just went through an earthquake. You have to remember a 7.0 offshore is going to be felt in these buildings. And we are getting reports that folks in the buildings have been feeling the earthquake. The buildings have been shaking around and it is a strong earthquake.

Then there's the fear when you hear the tsunami warnings of that will impending tidal wave coming in. Of course, this is not going to be a -- this is not a 9.0, it's not going to be what happened with the Fukushima situation there. But even a small tsunami can cause localized damage along the coast there. So we'll watch that closely here.

But these things travel at jetliner speed, 500 miles an hour, Don. So if a tsunami was generated here, we will know rather shortly how bad, how big and whether it has arrived on the coast in just a few minutes here. And we'll keep you posted.

LEMON: We all remember what happened back on March 11th, that first -- you know, it was the earthquake and then the tsunami that really damaged so much of Japan and that Fukushima nuclear power plant. It was evacuated for a time earlier. We're hearing now that the workers had been let back in. Do you have information on that?

CABRERA: Well, that's the thing. And we've had these 7.0s where we have the big scare. A lot of folks not knowing when you feel the earthquake, you really aren't sure if it's a 7.0, is it an 8.0? And so the folks that are in and around the plant will take the precautions and evacuate.

If we're getting word that they're letting them back in, I think we are looking pretty good here along the coast.

LEMON: All right, Ivan, listen, stay on top of that for us. And as Ivan was speaking there, we did see some of the video coming from NHK which is there in Japan.

We want to go now to Dale Grant. He is with the USGS. He joins us now from Golden, California tonight.

Listen, sir, as we look at this video and you see the shaking there and you heard our Ivan Cabrera saying this is an aftershock from the March 11th quake, this is a pretty big hit even so.

DALE GRANT, USGS: Yes. This actually is one -- well, it is the largest aftershock since the 9.0 and there were a few 7s at that time, but since that time, this is the biggest quake that has occurred in the aftershock zone and it has been felt all the way north in Ayomori down south to Tokyo. So it's very widely felt.

LEMON: So listen, Dan, you're in Golden, Colorado, tonight. As we watch this, the possibility of a tsunami, there was a warning there. And we saw what happened when on March 11th when there was an earthquake and then all of a sudden, this wall of water just slams into the coast of Japan and took out so much. So many cities there. When might we know if or the possibility of something happening from this, not that severe, but when might we know something.

GRANT: Actually since tsunamis travel at about 450 miles an hour, if one would have occurred, it would have already been known by now.

LEMON: OK. So as we look at this, though, and all the buildings there that are still damaged and all the infrastructure, what kind of problem does this pose for the people of Japan?

GRANT: Well, it's just a continuing of the aftershocks of that devastating 9.0. And unfortunately, these kind of aftershocks are likely to occur for quite some time. It's just the nature of earthquakes that when you have a shallow devastating 9.0, you have aftershocks, or sometimes up over a year. In Sumatra, they did last over a year.

LEMON: All right. Thank you very much, Dale Grant is with the USGS. He's coming to us tonight from Golden, Colorado.

Again a 7.1 magnitude quake struck off the east coast of northern Japan. You're looking now at NHK, one of our affiliates there in Japan. And that is what they're reporting and exactly what went on when this struck a short time ago.

There was a tsunami warning in effect and you heard Mr. Grant say these travel at 400 miles an hour or faster. So, they would have seen it by now if it was going to occur but still from March 11th, we know nerves are on edge there considering there was a double whammy.

The earthquake tsunami really triple and then of course, the Fukushima nuclear power plant, which went offline and then caused radiation to go into the atmosphere and into the community.

We'll continue to follow that developing story with our folks on the phone and also with our Ivan Cabrera, our meteorologist here in the CNN severe weather center.

Also breaking news tonight, it is out of Washington. The debt talks in Washington to be specific. It now appears plans to ambitiously attack the deficit have faltered which isn't to say they won't keep trying but already, expectations are being lowered. We just got the breaking news a short time ago. We're going to go to CNN's congressional correspondent Kate Bolduan who is joining from us Washington.

We're looking at live pictures, Kate, of the Capitol and of the White House. Both sides tonight sending out statements, the president and the House speaker and they couldn't appear to be further apart.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the speaker on Friday, Don, he made it pretty clear there were still big differences that they need to overcome if they were ever going to reach a deal. But we know that there were conversations that both sides were going for this grand deal so to speak, something in the area of $4 trillion in deficit savings over the next decade.

But the House speaker John Boehner made very clear in this statement released this evening that he's not going for that deal. So he's now saying that something more in the area of the -- what was being agreed to or discussed in the Biden group talks that fell apart earlier, something in the area of $2 trillion in deficit savings over the next decade is something that he thinks that they need to now be focusing on.

Well, what this really is recognition of what was kind of what we've been hearing on the Hill, I'll tell you Don, is that $1 trillion in new revenue was being discussed in that grand deal was going to -- was a very tall order. Big problems within the Republican Party, especially in the House, over this idea of any kind of tax increases and at the same time, big problems among Democrats any inclusion of any kind of change or cutting benefits to Medicare and Social Security.

So this just shows we're told by Republican aide my colleague told my Republican aide this evening that the speaker and president spoke by phone earlier today and it seems that you know, the conversations that have been going on on the staff level over the past couple days have probably crystallized the fact that they need votes in order to pass this and right now that grand deal is probably a little too ambitious. And so now they're going for -- it's still a big deal, this $2 trillion, Don, if they can pull this off in order to agree to raise this debt ceiling, but that seems to be now where they're trying to focus their efforts.

LEMON: And Kate, I want to read you this, a statement coming from the president tonight. This came in tonight. The president believes that solving our fiscal problems is an economic imperative but in order to do that, we cannot ask the middle class and seniors to bear all the burden of higher costs and budget cuts. We need a balanced approach that asks the very wealthiest and special interests to pay their fair share, as well. We believe the American people agree.

It goes on to say both parties have made real progress thus far and to back of now will not only fail to solve our fiscal challenge, it will confirm the cynicism people very about politics in Washington. The president believes that now is the moment to rise above that cynicism and show the American people that we can still do big things.

And so tomorrow the president will make the case to the congressional leaders that we must reject the politics of least resistance and take on then critical challenge. The president will be addressing cynicism and show the American people that we can still do big things.

This is important, Kate -- this is important, Kate, because the Treasury Department has warned here that failure to work this out and to do so by August 2nd could lead to a possible default, which could push interest rates to skyrocket and cause the dollar to plummet. So this is critical at this juncture.

The president hoping that the other side will agree with him, but if you listen to what John Boehner, the House Speaker, saying he doesn't believe that's going to happen.

BOLDUAN: Well, there still is recognition on the part of everyone involved in these talks, the congressional leaders involved in the talks and the president and vice president that this is still, you know, this is pivotal. This is critical. And even in the statements that we've seen release this had evening following John Boehner's statement, still recognition that they do need to work towards a deal.

But the president has been calling for a balanced approach and the big question is, where is the balance? They seem very far apart on some key issues that are some fundamental differences between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats really wanting to protect the benefits to Medicare and Social Security, not wanting any changes there.

Republicans having a very hard time coming to be able to agree to anything that would increase taxes. And so that is where this big divide has really been from the beginning and it seems it's just now becoming more and more apparent as they're trying to get down to the details and really strike a deal. We're really coming up on that deadline very quickly.

LEMON: All right Kate Bolduan, a roadblock in the debt talks, not a good sign with the deadline pending. We appreciate it. Our two breaking news stories tonight. That was our lead stories tonight: what's happening in Japan, a big earthquake there and also a falter faltering in the talks on increasing the debt ceiling.

We'll continue to follow those two breaking news stories for you.

In the meantime, a tragic reminder for baseball fans to be careful.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: We ask that each of you join the Oakland Athletics, the Texas Rangers, and all of Major League Baseball as we observe a silent moment of reflection and respect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: A fan falls to his death after catching a ball for his son. Next, a friend of Shannon Stone talks about the victim who was a husband, a father and a firefighter.

Also, the world's newest country is born.

Ending decades of brutal civil war, killing more than 2 million people, what's next for South Sudan?

And if you want to send us information or get information on the stories we are following, check us out on social media, Twitter, Facebook, CNN.com/Don and also on Foursquare.com, as well.

My book is called Transparent.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: In Arlington, Texas, a father and son out for a night at the ballpark, then tragedy struck.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, this is it. That's why there was time taken.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: 39-year-old Shannon Stone reached for a ball only to fall head first over the railing, dropping 20 feet to his death. His 6-year-old son right next to him seeing the whole thing happen. A man beside Stone, Ronnie Hargis, tried to pull him back, but he slipped away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONNIE HARGIS, TRIED TO SAVE FALLING RANGERS FAN: Your first instinct is reach out and grab him. I tried to grab him. I couldn't catch him. He went down. As he went by me, I tried to grab him again and I missed. And it looked like in slow motion as he was going to the ground. I mean, there's nothing I could do except watch him fall.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The player who tossed Stone the ball, Josh Hamilton, beside himself now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH HAMILTON, BASEBALL PLAYER: It's definitely on my mind and in my heart. You know, like I said, you know, I can't stop praying enough for him and you know, my family is. And you know, I just can't imagine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The Rangers organization took a moment of silence the day afterwards.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: We ask that each of you join the Oakland Athletics, the Texas Rangers, and all of Major League Baseball as we observe a silent moment of reflection and respect for Brownwood, Texas, firefighter Shannon Stone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: This isn't the first time a fan has fallen at the Rangers ballpark. Another man fell from the second deck a little more than a year ago. He dropped 30 feet and fractured his skull, but incredibly, he lived.

Joining me now on the phone is Bobby Roundtree, he's a city manager of Brownwood, Texas, where Shannon Stone worked as a firefighter.

Bobby, my condolences to you. And I'm sure everyone there is horrified by this. How do you remember Shannon Stone?

BOBBY ROUNDTREE, CITY MANAGER OF BROWNWOOD: We're also very horrified. It's a tragic accident, and our concern is, of course, for the family, the wife and the young son. But Shannon was an outstanding firefighter. He was an outstanding person, but he was even more than that, he was a good dad. He was probably a better dad than he was a firefighter.

You never saw him off duty without you the little Cooper with him. Then on his days off when the staff meetings were held, Cooper would be sitting in the staff meetings with his dad. He had him everywhere.

He would bring him by city hall. He's been in my office. I have some miniature cars in my office and he would play with the miniature cars.

Shannon was just a regular guy. He was very respected amongst the firefighters and the community. He was an 18 1/2 year veteran of the Brownwood Fire and Rescue Services.

We're going to miss him. His firefighter brothers are going to miss him tremendously.

It was very difficult on them the night of the incident when you live, eat, work, sleep, play with someone you become pretty close. There's some of those guys he's been around for 18 1/2 years. So it's a very difficult situation for us right now.

LEMON: Mr. Roundtree, can you tell me how Shannon's family is doing, specifically 6-year-old Cooper having to watch all of this? I would hope, and I'm sure they are, receiving tremendous support.

ROUNDTREE: They're receiving tremendous support. I have not visited with the wife yet. I've been in conversation with one of her best friends is with her. I've been with her since the incident. And I think she's like any of us, she's having ups and downs.

Little Cooper, he's playing and I honestly don't know if it's really hit him exactly what's happened yet.

But those two are our main concern. You know, we're all saddened. We'll get by. Those are the two that need all of our prayers and our continuous prayers. It's going to be very difficult on those two, especially in the days to come.

LEMON: Yes, and also with the loss of income and just having to deal with it. Can you please tell our viewers about money being raised and funds for the Stone family and how they can help if they'd like to.

ROUNDTREE: Yes, sir. There's a couple of ways. You can go to www.brownwoodchamber.org and click on a link there for Shannon Stone. Click on that link and you can provide any type of contribution. It goes directly to the bank.

I understand too that Ranger organization has set up a similar account that you can click on their organization and go and provide some funding.

We sent ours up about 3:00 yesterday, just got started and you know, there was already over $8,000 in it by 6:00 last night in just three hours.

There's a gentleman who came by who he said I want to have a barbecue. I want to sell these barbecue wraps. He raised $9,000 in four hours right here in Brownwood, Texas.

LEMON: We are glad that people are responding and, of course, our thoughts and prayers are with Shannon Stone's family tonight.

Bobby Roundtree is the city manager for Brownwood, Texas. We appreciate it. Best of luck. And Godspeed, OK?

ROUNDTREE: Thank you very much.

LEMON: Let's move on now and talk about Casey Anthony. Acquitted this week of murdering her little girl, will be freed from jail a week from tomorrow. Straight ahead, a live report from Orlando with our very own Jane Velez-Mitchell who was there when the verdict came down.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: Caylee, Caylee, Caylee, Caylee, Caylee, Caylee. Justice for Caylee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, they're protesters outside. That's the scene outside the Orlando courtroom where Casey Anthony was found not guilty of murdering her 2-year-old daughter Caylee. Many people were outraged convinces the jury had reached the wrong decision. And you know what? That wasn't the worst of the protesting. Casey Anthony will be set free a week from tomorrow. So what happens then is anyone's guess.

Someone who has followed this from the very beginning is HLN's Jane Velez-Mitchell. She's the host, of course, of Issues with Jane Velez- Mitchell. She's been in Orlando. She was there when the shocking verdict came down. Jane, that was pretty mild to some of the outrage that you witnessed. I saw you there speaking to those folks. JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, ISSUES WITH JANES VELEZ-MITCHELL: I was there outside the courthouse and people were furious. This is the angriest I have seen a group of people since O.J. Simpson about a verdict. And I think part of it was the shock. They were expecting some serious conviction, if not first-degree murder then maybe second degree murder, if not second degree murder, maybe manslaughter, maybe aggravated child abuse at least. Nothing.

And so they were very, very shocked and I think that the prosecution made a mistake by emphasizing Casey Anthony's lies which they really drilled home on because what did the jury convict her of? Lying. Four counts of lying. That's it.

LEMON: That's it.

So Jane, listen, I haven't seen shock like this since O. J. Simpson. And let me get this in, Jane. I've heard a lot of comparisons to O.J. Simpson. I think this was huge, this was big, but this didn't go on nearly as long as O.J. Simpson. It didn't have the celebrity, didn't have the race, didn't have the class, didn't have all of those things -- jurors going to the scene and looking at evidence in the crime scene and then shows being created around it.

This was outrageous. But can you compare the two except for the shock of the verdict?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, this was the trial of this new century. It was the first social media trial where we were all watching it together. We were all tweeting. You and me and everybody else. And communicating and discussing everything in real-time as it happened.

And I think that the big shocker here was Jose Baez's opening statement which offered an alternative theory of accidental drowning and essentially pulled the rug out from under the prosecution because remember, in their opening statement, they're like where is Caylee? Day 24, day 25, where is Caylee.

Well, he acknowledged Caylee was dead. So it kind of offered an explanation for her going out because she knew her child was already dead.

LEMON: Hey, Jane, let me jump in here. I want to move this forward because this is serious stuff. We saw Casey Anthony come in when the verdict was read, after the verdict was read and they were going to sentence her, she was all dolled up so to speak, her hair fixed, makeup on, she was smiling till the judge said I'm going to put new jail for a year and then that worked out to be something different.

There's serious concerns about her safety because people are so mad. Some folks may be out to get her and her family's already had death threats.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. Her family has received death threats. And I can tell you that Orange County officials are absolutely determined that she will leave their control unharmed. And I do have sources telling me that she is going to leave through a backdoor on Sunday, July 17th. There are going to be numerous SUVs with dark tinted windows. You will not know which vehicle she's in.

And if they see media or anybody else following them, they're going to veer off in different directions so you will not know.

LEMON: This is like the witness protection program.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yeah, and now that I've said this they may alter their plans. But that's what I'm hearing at this point.

It certainly makes sense. They want to make sure that nothing happens to her. And the irony of this is rich, which is a phrase used a lot during the trial because her defense team accused law enforcement of not only sloppy work but a fraud and of lying and now they're going all out to protect her.

LEMON: There you go.

Jane Velez-Mitchell, always interesting and outspoken.

And Jane, you did you a great job this week. Thank you for your coverage. We look forward to seeing you. Make sure you catch Jane every night 7:00 eastern on our sister network HLN. It's called Issues with Jane Velez-Mitchell.

Britain's most famous newlyweds invade the U.S. Prince William and his wife Catherine are on a whirlwind tour of California. We'll hear about t heir day coming up next.

Plus eyebrows are raised over this image: a black man giving away scholarships to whites only. We're going to explore that straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: This is one of our breaking news stories tonight. The same region devastated by the massive earthquake that struck Japan last March is under a tsunami warning. That comes after a magnitude 7 earthquake struck offshore just about 90 minutes ago. The tremor could be felt as far as away as Tokyo.

Ivan Cabrera joins me now with more on the aftershock. Ivan, what do you know?

IVAN CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what I like is that we have had no news as far as a tsunami arriving. And it would have by now, Don, if this thing had reached shore. It happened essentially 131 miles east. Here's the earthquake here. Here's the Fukushima nuclear power plant which is obviously what we're worried about here.

If a tsunami had been generated by this 7.0 earthquake, it would have arrived already. We have not had any word from the Japan meteorological agency that that has happened. So I'm liking that. It is a strong earthquake. It was felt. We had buildings shaking, of course. And this is an automatic thing they do in Japan as a result of the magnitude of the quake, it's a 7.0, it's shallow so automatically they trigger a tsunami advisory.

There are different advisories along the coast. You can have essentially just like a tornado watch versus a warning. This was an advisory, not a warning. So we never expected this to be a major threat along the Japanese coast here, but it is a strong earthquake. And that's why they issued the tsunami alert.

But I think at this point here, we're going to be in good shape. This has happened before since that disastrous 9.0, we have had these strong earthquakes that have triggered the tsunami advisories, but essentially nothing has happened here. And we're hoping, Don, that that's going to be the case this time around. But if that changes, of course, we will let you know.

LEMON: CNN's Ivan Cabrera, Ivan, thank you very much.

Royalty in the room tonight, in Los Angeles. The duke and duchess of Cambridge, otherwise known as Will and Kate, take Hollywood by storm. We're live next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The royal newlyweds are going Hollywood tonight, rubbing elbows with A-list actors and paying tribute to up and coming British talent. It should be the other way around, they're rubbing elbows with royalty.

Before business today was about pleasure. Prince William played polo in Santa Barbara while his wife Catherine looked on. Our royal correspondent Max Foster joins us now from Los Angeles with more on their visit.

I like that title, royal correspondent. That's a nice gig. They're on their way to you right now.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they're getting changed on their way here. This is the big reveal as far as the photographers are concerned. This is the only night during the whole tour we're going to see Catherine in full evening dress and jewelry, we're told. So everyone is very excited.

A few stars have turned up: Tom Hanks, J-Lo, didn't stop by to talk to anyone, though, Jennifer Garner, a lot of young British up and coming stars. That's what the whole event is about, introducing those big A- listers to the young British stars.

So everybody pretty excited. A lot of people didn't know why they were invited in the first place. But they're all quite excited about meeting the duke and duchess. I'm not sure they're going to meet them, but they're certainly going to be mingling with them -- Don.

LEMON: So, listen, what did they do earlier? FOSTER: Well, earlier, there was a big polo match, and that was for charity. It's for William and Harry's charity. And it was a great polo match by all accounts. Everyone was playing really hard and tough because the American sport is a bit tougher than the more gentlemanly British version.

But William won in the end and he got presented a trophy by his wife and then there was a kiss. So everyone very excited about that. Today was all about glamour, glitz, and tonight's the night as far as that's concerned.

Tomorrow a bit more gritty. They're going down to Skid Row to meet some homeless young people -- Don.

LEMON: OK. Has this been -- this is almost like a PR tour, so to speak. It's like an ambassador tour. Has it been successful though thus far?

FOSTER: Well, yes, I was speaking to Nigel Lythgoe, who organized this event. And he -- it was his idea to have an event where you promote young Brits in Hollywood. He says it has been incredibly successful.

Yesterday, there was a new media event doing the same sort of thing. So it seems to be very successful in California. There is a bit of concern though about public access because in Canada, there was lots of handshakes with people and the crowds were up close.

Whereas here they're being kept at a firm distance. And a bit of concern that they're not meeting the royals. But I guess it's just a different setup. It's organized by the British government this trip opposed to the Canadian government over in Canada.

LEMON: Thank you, Max Foster, our royal correspondent. We appreciate it.

So when you think of the art world, maybe you think of the hip scenes in New York or maybe London. The white sterile galleries, the artists in the latest fashions. The rich appraising pieces for their walls. Well, Thornton Dial is about as far as away from all that as you can get.

Dial has a major exhibit opening right here in Atlanta this weekend. This is his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON (voice-over): To the casual observer, it's just art. To the critical eye, as shown in this Alabama public television documentary, Thornton Dial's work, brilliant art.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it asks all of us about genius, you know, and where does it reside?

LEMON: With no formal education, he can't even read, the 82-year-old began creating as a dirt poor child in the South whose family couldn't afford toys. Making his own out of cans and string. He worked as a steelworker, carpenter, and brick-layer. Then started a family business making painted steel furniture.

That gave him more time to create art. And then at the ripe age of 60, he was discovered by art collector Bill Arnett, a skyrocket ride to fame and wealth and controversy.

JACQUELYM SERWER, CHIEF CURATOR, CORCORAN GALLERY OF ART: It would not be a controversial thing to say that there has been racism in the art world.

DAVID DRISKELL, ARTIST, HISTORIAN: They wouldn't even look at a work by say Thornton Dial and consider it art were it in a museum.

LEMON: And in 1993, "60 Minutes" profiled Dial in a story that insinuated that Bill Arnett had been exploiting Dial. Both men took great offense.

THORTON DIAL, ARTIST: Mr. Arnett made me who I am and I really appreciate him for what he did for me.

LEMON: Dial has some trouble walking these days after a stroke, but he's on the rise again. More popular than ever, more prolific than ever. Finally landing a series of shows at major galleries and museums around the country.

Some of thinks work has sold for tens of thousands of dollars.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: And I had a chance of a lifetime to sit down with Thornton Dial, my in-depth conversation with him next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Before the break, we brought you the story of Thornton Dial, an artist who transcends racial barriers, his own lack of formal education, and the occasional snobbery of the art world, breaking many of the rules with his unique compositions.

My conversation with him is "What Matters" tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: You didn't go to school, did you?

DIAL: No.

LEMON: Did you learn to read and write?

DIAL: No, none of that, no.

LEMON: But you know how to be an artist. You're self-taught. How did you start, as a kid?

DIAL: Well, yes. Started as I was a kid and playing with stuff. Yes.

LEMON: Like what? Tell me.

DIAL: Well, you take right now, I used to play with a whole lot of cans and things and a lot of things I used to play with.

LEMON: This is your favorite.

DIAL: Right.

LEMON: This is "Tuscaloosa."

DIAL: That's Tuscaloosa.

LEMON: Tuscaloosa just happened.

DIAL: I was looking at that storm when it was going down through there. It's there for you to see, and see what the lord there did.

LEMON: Did you realize when you were putting all this stuff together that it was art or were you just messing around?

DIAL: Well, you just satisfy yourself. You know, you're doing things to satisfy your own self. And then after you satisfy yourself and it didn't hold up, well, I've got to make another one.

LEMON: What did you call it before art?

DIAL: I didn't call it nothing.

LEMON: Because you didn't go to school for art.

DIAL: Right, right.

LEMON: Right?

DIAL: Right.

LEMON: Do you understand that some people say things about that, they may be jealous?

DIAL: Well, I feel that way, too. I feel the same way you're speaking that way. Because some people are jealous of that kind of stuff. But you can't be jealous of what God got for you. You know? How? Because that's your mind.

LEMON: And your talent.

DIAL: Huh?

LEMON: And your talent.

DIAL: Oh, yes, yes. That's it.

That's the coal mine right there.

LEMON: "Jesus Christ in the Coal Mine."

DIAL: Yes, yes.

LEMON: Tell me about "Jesus Christ in the Coal Mine."

DIAL: Well, he's everywhere. You think after you go down in the mine, you're depending on the lord. And that's Jesus Christ. You can't depend on nobody else. Who are you going to depend on?

LEMON: So when people call you folk art and try to put you in a category...

DIAL: Right.

LEMON: There are some people in the art world say that's racist. It's art. What do you think?

DIAL: Right. Well, I think it's art too because actually, I think all art is art.

LEMON: It seems to me that you don't let any of it bother you.

DIAL: Nothing. Nothing, and never have.

LEMON: Not even the controversies?

DIAL: No.

LEMON: Not even when people write about you or say about you.

DIAL: Well, feel good about it. You know, you have to feel good about something.

LEMON: I'm just wondering if you look at this stuff and you go, me, all this for me?

DIAL: Yes, I think about it. I think about all of that, too, because it is amazing. It's amazing to see stuff that you have did and people have came and looked at it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Thornton Dial, so glad he opened up to me. Thank you so much, sir. By the way, the exhibit is running now through August 27th at the Bill Lowe Gallery right here in Atlanta, Georgia. Great stuff.

Coming up next, an entirely different perspective on Affirmative Action. Should a black man hand out scholarships reserved for whites only? That controversial discussion right after the break.

But first this. On the day after Christmas in 2004, a tsunami hit nine Asian countries, killing more than 225,000 people. Millions of lives were forever changed but this week's "CNN Hero" turned her personal loss into renewed hope and healing for children and families in need.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSANNE JANSON, CHAMPIONING CHILDREN: My father called me and told me that something bad had happened in Thailand.

My daughters, Eleanor and Josephine, went to Thailand for vacation with my ex-husband. And it was hard to get good information in Sweden. We decided to go to Thailand ourselves and look for them.

When I realized I wouldn't bring them back home alive, I wanted to die. But the Thai people had suffered so much more. I felt a connection to them. And I wanted to give something back.

My name is Susanne Janson. I moved to Thailand because I wanted to help poor Thai children to make the most out of their lives.

We are not an orphanage. It's a home for children and families in it. We want to provide these children with the chance to make some changes in their lives. Love is the first thing they need. Second, food. But then it's school and education.

We want to be as close to a normal family as possible. Of course we are a very big family. When something is good, we are happy together. If something bad happens, we cry together. That's the most important if you work with children. Not so much heads, but a lot of heart.

My daughters loved their life. And I wanted to show them that I would survive this. And if I could help my new children to love their life, at least one good thing came out of this.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Remember, "CNN Heroes" are chosen from people you tell us about. To nominate someone who is making a big difference in your community, go to cnnheroes.com.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Some could say these photos show scenes that turn civil rights on its head. These winners have just received scholarships for white men only. And a black man is part of the group giving the money out. His name is Marcus Carter. Carter is the vice president of the Former Majority Association for Equality.

He and the group's president, Colby Bohannan, spoke with me about their whites-only grants. And Carter acknowledged he has received criticism.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARCUS CARTER, VP, FORMER MAJORITY ASSOCIATION FOR EQUALITY: The overall feedback has been positive, say about 80/20, positive being the 80 and 20 being the negative.

LEMON: Yes. I'm sure you've been called names and I'm sure you've heard the Uncle Tom name and all that stuff, right?

CARTER: Yes, absolutely.

LEMON: Yes, and that's probably being kind.

CARTER: Yes. Well, I mean, it's kind of all the same when you're getting insulted. I don't really put one insult in a bag with different ones. It's all pretty much the same to me.

But it really gets at me when knowing our people, or my people, African-Americans in general, you know, know what it's like to be singled out and persecuted for 400 years or however many ever years it is.

They know -- we know how detrimental it is, you know, to go through something like that and knowing this is happening to a different subset, you know, you would think that we would get the idea, you know, how non-progressive this could be.

There are plenty of scholarships for African-Americans and plenty for scholarships for Mexicans -- or Hispanics, I'm sorry. There's plenty of scholarships for Asian-Americans. It's really not just helping a certain group but it's helping everybody at the same time because we all need help.

COLBY BOHANNAN, PRES., FORMER MAJORITY ASSOCIATION FOR EQUALITY: I did not ask Marcus to help me on this project for any reason other than I wanted this project to succeed. People love to think that we're trying to say more than just, hey, let's help out Caucasian families that are trying to send their sons to school.

But fmafe.org has nothing to do with any kind of harkening back to some past era where whites enjoyed more power.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Bohannan also told me one winner refused to accept the money. The group's Web site says an applicant must be 25 percent Caucasian to qualify.

A concert by one of the biggest names in music comes to a quick end when a fire breaks out. That and more, the hour's headlines straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Let's get you caught up on the headlines. Japan appears to have dodged a bullet after a massive aftershock struck offshore. The magnitude 7 tremor rattled the same area devastated last March by a deadly quake and tsunami.

There were no reports of damage or casualties immediately after the quake and no immediate problems were noted in a nearby nuclear plant.

Also, breaking news tonight. Talks to reach a more ambitious deficit reduction deal ran into problems in Washington. House Speaker John Boehner says the White House continues to push for tax hikes despite the Republicans' refusal to accept them. Still an official meeting among congressional party leaders and the president is still scheduled for Sunday. But Boehner says those talks now will deal with a less bold plan than what the Obama administration had wanted.

One of the poorest places on Earth is now a free and independent nation. South Sudan emerged today as the world's newest country. It successfully broke off from the rest of Sudan following decades of civil war that only ended in 2005.

The new defense secretary says victory over al Qaeda is within reach. Leon Panetta touched down in Kabul, Afghanistan, today. He said the terrorist group is on the run after the killing of its leader Osama bin Laden. Panetta is in Afghanistan for talks with President Hamid Karzai before NATO turns over control of several areas to Afghan security forces.

Reporters at Britain's News of the World have filed their last stories. And Sunday's issue of the tabloid will be the last one. Owner Rupert Murdoch ordered the paper shut down. The tabloid became toxic when it was revealed that reporters may have hacked the voicemail boxes of thousands of people while chasing stories.

Casey Anthony will be free a week from Sunday, but there are further signs her relationship with her mother may be fractured. A Florida correctional official says Casey refused to let her mother visit her in the Orange County jail Friday night. Anthony, who was acquitted of murdering her little girl, was sentenced to four years for lying to police but she was given credit for time served.

Betty Ford, one of the country's most beloved first ladies, has died of natural causes. Two services have been scheduled, Tuesday in California and Thursday in Michigan. Some of the speakers are expected to give eulogies are former first lady Rosalynn Carter and commentator Cokie Roberts. Ford was married to former President Gerald Ford for nearly 60 years. She was 93 years old.

Just hours from now, the Shuttle Atlantis will dock with the International Space Station for the very last time. Astronauts today checked the orbiter for any signs of damage to its heat shield from Friday's historic launch. This mission marks the end of NASA's long- time shuttle program.

Singer Rihanna said it herself on Twitter. She set the stage on fire in Dallas, literally. And one of our I-Reporters was there to catch it on camera. You can see the top of the stage in flames at the American Airlines Center. Many fans got out of there quick and the rest of the show was canceled. Affiliate KTVT is reporting that it had something to do with pyrotechnics.

Derek Jeter joined a very exclusive club of baseball's best this afternoon. The Yankee great got his 3,000th hit before a hometown crowd, and he did it with authority, reaching that milestone with a home run. The game came to a halt as the crowd at Yankee Stadium stood and cheered. Jeter is just the 28th player in history and the first Yankee to get 3,000 hits. Congratulations to him. I'm Don Lemon at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta. Thank you so much for watching. I'll see you back here tomorrow night, 6:00, 7:00, and 10:00 p.m. Eastern. Good night.