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Thousands of Airport Security Breaches; Murdoch Drops BSkyB Bid

Aired July 13, 2011 - 13:58   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: We have to be right all the time, terrorists only have to get lucky once. A stark reminder from the chairman of a house subcommittee faced with some eye-opening numbers.

Take a look.

Since November of 2001, the nation's airports have seen more than 25,000 security breaches ranging from trivial oversights to deliberate attacks.

More than 14,000 involve people getting into secure areas without authorization. Roughly 6,000 involve passengers or bags that weren't properly screened.

In more than 2,600 cases, people evaded screening to get into so- called sterile areas, though, again, it's not clear how many of these breaches were inadvertent.

Still it's fresh ammunition for critics of the TSA, including Congressman Jason Chaffetz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R-UT), CHAIR, NATIONAL SECURITY SUBCOMMITTEE: There's no end to the creativity of terrorists. And while I've heard press recounts say, well, let's remember the security breaches are 1 percent or less than 1 percent, unfortunately, we have to be right all the time, terrorists only have to get lucky once.

A lot of what we've been participating here, in my personal opinion, has been security theater and has not done the job to secure the airports to the degree that we need to. And I think one of the personal challenges we have as a nation is how do we become more secure and yet less invasive; that we don't give up every personal liberty in the name of security. And we have to find that proper balance. It's a difficult one knowing that the threat is real.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: I want to get some insights now and some perspective from one of our go-to experts on aviation security, Erroll Southers. He's a former airport security chief in L.A. and former nominee to head the TSA. He's now a consult and adjunct professor at USC.

Mr. Southers, what, if anything, troubles you about those numbers that we just saw?

ERROLL SOUTHERS, SECURITY CONSULTANT: Well, Randi, what troubles me most about those numbers are the 6,000 people that were able to access the airport, getting past government security screeners. Regardless of how quantitatively the percentage is, in terms of how low it is in being successful, the fact is they got through. So, that's 6,000 people that we need to be concerned about since 9/11 that were not subjected to screening, and we quite frankly didn't know perhaps where they were or what they were carrying.

KAYE: So, what's the problem here? I mean, are we talking about a flawed system or lack of resources or improperly allocated resources, poor training? What is it?

SOUTHERS: Well, I think it's an interesting combination. I think the first problem we have here is we have systems that are looking for what instead of who. And I think there's a human element that's being, if you will, not prioritized in a way that could be best utilized to determine who is accessing our aircraft.

We have the technology. We have the capabilities. And I'm a proponent of a trusted travel program, a secure global travel program, where we could use biometrics, we could have people in a line who have subjected themselves -- with all due respect to civil liberties and privacy -- to a higher scrutiny level with a biometric card, and then we could devote those scarce resources in the way of security staffing to address a high risk population, or higher risk population, in the travelers that we don't know.

KAYE: I've got to say, you know, I've been looking at these numbers for hours since they came out earlier, and this number of 6,000 breaches where a TSA screener failed to screen a passenger or the carry-on property correctly, how is that still happening?

SOUTHERS: Well, Randi, that is a very good question, and that is an alarming number, again, despite the percentage. We have to stop telling the American people that we're being risk-based and intelligence-driven when these kinds of things continue to happen. It needs to be explained.

We need to do a better job, it appears, in who we select to screen. We need to do a better job of who's being trained to screen. There is no excuse for that number.

And as Congress mentioned, the terrorists only have to be lucky once.

So, we have to do a better job, and there is a way to do it.

KAYE: I mean, do you think it's too much to expect that we can prevent breaches overall in general? That they would never happen?

SOUTHERS: I do think it is much to expect. I think that's another conversation we have to have with the American public about the fact that we are reducing risk, and 100 percent security is something that's unattainable. When you try to secure everything, you, in fact, quite often wind up securing nothing.

So, we do have to have a conversation with regards to how we can reduce the risk, how we can, in fact, make the secure -- the traveling more secure, but things will happen. As long as we're dealing with human beings, we're going to make mistakes. We should admit those mistakes and try to do a better job.

KAYE: Erroll Southers, always great to have you on the show, especially on an important topic such as this one. Thank you so much.

SOUTHERS: Thanks.

KAYE: In India, a series of explosions ripped through Mumbai today, killing at least 20 people, injuring 113. The blast occurred within minutes of each other in three areas of India's financial capital. Officials don't know what caused the explosions, but they quickly brought back memories of the 2008 attacks by Pakistani terrorists, which killed 164 people. The entire city has been placed on high alert, as well as the capital of New Delhi.

Our sound effect today is a new and unsettling glimpse inside the jury room in the Casey Anthony trial. As you probably know, Anthony was acquitted of killing her daughter who vanished in June of 2008 but wasn't reported missing for a month. Her mother spent those 31 days bar hopping and hanging out with a boyfriend.

And in an interview with FOX News, the jury foreman says that behavior troubled the panel greatly. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY JURY FOREMAN: Well, it disgusted us. We were all very disgusted with that between June 16th, when it happened, to the time that it -- and that's what makes this hard. It's what made it very hard for us.

It's something that, you know, I wish, because of that and seeing that, there'd been -- we wish there was something else we could -- we could look at that would be a felony, something where, you know, we don't have the power to do this. We don't have the ability to put the laws in place for this, but something where if you do not report a child missing, then it's going to be a felony. And for every hour or day whatever goes on, it gets worse and worse because her actions were disgusting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: The foreman says jurors were stunned when the prosecution rested, hoping and expecting there would be more incriminating evidence. The jury did find Casey Anthony guilty of lying to investigators, but she's still due to leave jail a free woman this Sunday.

Checking out some other top stories that we're following:

Under fire on a phone hacking scandal, media baron Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation dropped a bid to take over broadcaster BSkyB. This follows public outrage over allegations that journalists working for Murdoch illegally eavesdropped on phone messages of thousands of people and bribed police. The move also preempted by a few hours a planned vote in parliament that had widespread support for a nonbinding motion, urging Murdoch to drop the bid offer for BSkyB.

A stern warning today from Fed Chairman Bernanke: if Congress fails to raise the debt ceiling by the August 2nd deadline, the result could be a major financial crisis. Bernanke's grim prediction was part of his twice a year economic report to Congress. On the economy, Bernanke said the Central Bank would supply more stimulus if needed. He also said the Fed was prepared to raise interest rates if inflation does become a major issue.

In Germany, a huge victory for the American women's soccer team playing on a wet, slippery field. They beat France 3-1 in their World Cup semifinal match. The Americans advance to the World Cup finals for the first time since they last won the title. That was 1999.

Abby Wambach broke a hard fought tie with a big header off Lauren Cheney's corner kick in the 79th minute. Alex Morgan added an insurance goal in the 82nd minute. The American women will now play either Japan or Sweden in Sunday's final. And we wish them luck.

He was a genius when it came to economics, recognized for going from the dirt roads of Kenya to the halls of Harvard. Yet we're learning he may have come close to giving up his legacy, the president of the United States. Details about the other Barack Obama, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: He was part of Africa's independence generation and a brilliant economist, yet he was also a polygamist and an alcoholic who ended up becoming a father of an American president.

Barack Obama, Sr. has been somewhat of a mystery to most, even to his own son, President Obama. But biographer Sally Jacobs did the research and discovered unbelievable information about a man who lived a rather complicated life. Here to discuss her book "The Other Barack: the Bold and Reckless Life of President Obama's Father" is Sally Jacobs.

Sally, thanks for coming on the show.

First question to you: what inspired you to look into the life of Barack Obama, Sr.?

SALLY JACOBS, AUTHOR, "THE OTHER BARACK": Well, clearly, there was not a great deal known about him. As the campaign went on, it seemed that this was a person that we needed to know more about. There was a fair amount of information out there public about the president -- would-be president's mother, but the father was an unclear figure.

KAYE: You mention in your book that there was a chance, and actually some evidence, that he actually wanted to put his son, now President Obama, up for adoption. What can you tell us about that?

JACOBS: What I found is that in his immigration document, there is a memo in which Obama Sr. tells the foreign student adviser at the University of Hawaii, where he was enrolled, that his wife Ann Dunham was making arrangements with the Salvation Army to put their baby up for adoption. The baby was unborn at the time.

Did they actually do that? It's unclear. Ann Dunham had every reason to do it. She was 18 years old. She was having a mixed race baby at a time when intermarriage was very rare.

On the other hand, it didn't seem to be the kind of thing she would do. She took her responsibility seriously.

Obama, Sr. had every reason to put the baby up for adoption. At the time, he was renewing his visa or hoping to. If immigration officials saw him as a polygamist with a mixed race baby, that might not have been the best profile to put forward.

KAYE: Yet family members have said that they don't believe there was ever any evidence or any thoughts about putting Barack Obama up for adoption. But do you believe they were actually considering it, given the evidence that you've seen?

JACOBS: I think it's more likely that Obama, Sr. told them that to make them think the baby was going to vanish. It gave a cleaner profile for him to immigration officials.

The only thing I do wonder about is he said the Salvation Army. The Salvation Army did have a maternity home in Honolulu. It's interesting that he mentioned that. Maybe they talked about it, didn't go ahead with it. I don't think they made arrangements to actually do it, though.

KAYE: He speaks so sweetly about his mother. Do you think, if he was raised by his father, he would be president today?

JACOBS: You know, this is certainly speculative. Myself, it would be unlikely. Obama, Sr. was a very brilliant and brave person in some respects. He was extremely self-destructive also.

I think he wasn't a very nurturing person and was rather self- absorbed. I think Obama, Jr. might have chosen a very different life, would be a different person in many respects, if he'd grown up with that kind of a paternal figure.

KAYE: In all of your research for the book, what would you say surprised you most about Obama, Sr.?

JACOBS: Well, the two events in his life that I found most surprising and that were unknown was: (a), the adoption piece, and also that he was forced to leave Harvard before he really needed to go, and that had to do with his personal life and not his academics. He did quite well at the school but had to leave.

KAYE: Was there anything positive? I mean, we talk so much about the fact that he was kicked out of Harvard. He later died at the age of 46 in a car accident.

Anything positive? Anything redeeming about Obama, Sr.?

JACOBS: Absolutely. For starters, he was hugely successful in one sense. He made it from a very poor, simple childhood in Western Africa to Harvard. You know, he was really a brilliant economist.

Also, his story was deeply entwined with that of Kenya of the moment. He was a fierce advocate for the African people. He was not happy with the way the government was going, and he spoke out very boldly against the administration of Jomo Kenyatta. He did not feel that the little man was getting his fair due, and Obama, Sr. was very courageous about that at some personal risk.

KAYE: And just very quickly, what do you think President Obama will think of this book of yours about his father?

JACOBS: I think he'll find a lot that he didn't know in it. I cannot imagine it would be a very easy book to read, but I think any child who doesn't know their parent might want to know the true story about him. That's my hope.

KAYE: All right. We certainly appreciate you coming on and telling us about the book and sharing some of what you found. Thank you so much.

JACOBS: Thank you.

KAYE: Well, his books have titles like "God's War on Terror," "Satan's Footsteps," and "Why I Left Jihad." But is this reformed terrorist who he says he really is? We'll take a closer look, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: He says he was a terrorist claiming to have bombed an Israeli bank. He also says he's been a member of the PLO who attacked Israeli soldiers and grew up a devout Muslim who hated Jews. But now, Walid Shoebat has converted to Christianity and travels the U.S. lecturing churches and to the police about the dangers of Muslim. His message to them, American Muslims need to be profiled, all Islamic organizations, from doctors to engineers to students, ought to be investigated, and mosques in the U.S. should not be considered houses of worship but terror centers.

CNN's Drew Griffin joins me with much more on this.

Tell me about this guy. I mean, is this legit?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATION UNIT: Well, he certainly has a lot to say about Islam and terrorism. What caught our attention is who is saying this, too. He's teaching cops, Randi, which should mean his credentials have all been checked out -- maybe not.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALID SHOEBAT, TERRORISM SPEAKER: I think we are at war with Islamic fundamentalism and Islamism, which stems from Islam. You know, no historian can ignore that Islamists basically invaded Christendom.

GRIFFIN: Walid Shoebat's argument is the epitome of good versus evil. He has an advertise pedigree that makes him an expert -- Islamic-terrorist-turned-ultraconservative Christian. A U.S. citizen because his mother is American, he is a darling on the terror circuits, the church and university circuits. And, yes, he believes the war on terror is a holy war.

He portrays himself as a man converted and on a mission. Once a Jew-hating, bomb-throwing terrorist, now a devout Christian convert warning the world Islam is out to destroy you.

SHOEBAT: (SPEAKING ARABIC). That's how you recite the Koran. I know the Koran inside out.

English: if you believe the other believers, then smite off their necks. But what part of smite off their necks you Americans don't understand?

GRIFFIN: His message before a largely positive crowd of cops and emergency responders at this South Dakota homeland security conference, trust no Muslim, especially those who organize.

SHOEBAT: Know your enemy. Know your enemy. All Islamist organizations in America should be the number one enemy. All of them, Islamist organizations. Islamists in America should be focused on. You got that in (INAUDIBLE).

GRIFFIN: He is being paid $5,000 plus expenses to speak here with your tax dollars. He was also given a Rapid City police guard during his time in the city, a nice day's work. Judging by his Web site, where he highlights more than three dozen speaking engagements, Shoebat gets a lot of work.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: But the question we ask, Randi, is should anyone believe anything he says? We took our time with this investigation. We spent months trying to track down all of his so-called credentials, his being a terrorist, his throwing bombs, his being a member of PLO.

Our investigation was surprising and not unsurprising. He was very hostile when we began asking any questions.

KAYE: Oh, I'm sure. I'm also sure that anyone watching this at home is probably asking themselves, well, why did the South Dakota homeland security or anybody else hire this guy without checking out his credentials?

GRIFFIN: You know, we asked that of South Dakota, right? Number one, there's not a lot of Muslims there. There's not a lot of terrorism centered in South Dakota. So, why is this guy speaking there to begin with?

KAYE: Right.

GRIFFIN: He spoke there last year. He's back by popular demand. He was voted one of the most popular speakers there.

The Department of Homeland Security in Washington said, hey, we don't do the vetting. We leave that up to the states. But if anybody's teaching profiling, we don't go with that.

KAYE: Well, I'm certainly looking forward to finding out much more about what you found out in the investigation, Drew. Thanks so much for coming on.

Drew Griffin will have much more on this investigation tonight on "ANDERSON COOPER 360." That is at 10:00 p.m. Eastern. And you'll find this investigation only on CNN.

It is about 20 minutes past the hour. Here's a look at today's top stories.

The body of former First Lady Betty Ford will be flown to Michigan today. Tonight, there will be a private memorial service held in her honor. She will be buried next to her husband in Michigan. Yesterday, friends, families and first ladies past and present gathered for her funeral in Palm Desert, California.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai led thousands of mourners at his brother's funeral today. Ahmed Wali Karzai, a council chief in Kandahar, was killed Tuesday by one of his security guards. The guard was shot dead by other guards. He had worked for Karzai for the last eight years.

The Taliban have claimed responsibility, saying the guard acted under their direction.

The jury has been seated in the perjury trial of baseball great Roger Clemens. The 11-time all-star pitcher is on trial for perjury. The charges stem from his testimony before Congress when he said he never used any performance-enhancing drugs.

Some 140 witnesses could be called, including fellow athletes, trainers, and managers. One of the expected star witnesses is Clemens' former teammate Andy Pettitte, who has admitted to using the drugs and says that Clemens told him that he did as well.

The fallout from Britain's hacking scandal may extend across the Atlantic. Did Murdoch's journalists target 9/11 victims? The call for an investigation heats up here at home. We have the very latest for you, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: In the CNN "In-Depth," we're taking a close look at the exploding fallout surrounding the hacking scandal in Britain. Rupert Murdoch's News Corp dropped its bid to take over British broadcaster BSkyB today. Murdoch's withdrawal comes as Prime Minister David Cameron blasted Murdoch's company and launched a high powered investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Well, I think this is the right decision. I've been saying that this company clearly needs to sort out the problems there are at "News International," at "The News of the World." That must be the priority, not takeovers. So the right decision, but also the right decision for the country, too. We've now got to get on with the work of a police investigation and the public inquiry that I've set up today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: But Murdoch's troubles may extend far beyond the English Channel. As the pressure builds and more investigations are launched, there are now serious questions as to whether Murdoch's News Corp broke U.S. law by bribing foreign officials. U.S. Senator Frank Lautenberg from New Jersey is urging Attorney General Eric Holder and the head of Securities and Exchange Commission to launch an investigation. His comments echo warnings from Senate Commerce Chairman Jay Rockefeller, who voiced concerns over if Murdoch's journalists targeted and hacked 9/11 victims as well.

I want to bring in Richard Levick who specializes in crisis management, as the president of Levick Strategic Communications. He joins us now from D.C. via Skype.

Richard, you've been following this very closely. How deep do you think this all really goes?

RICHARD LEVICK, LEVICK STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: This is not about a lone reporter. This is about a business practice. You have 40 years of Rupert Murdoch intimidating politicians, and now it's a payback time. So, I think that's a challenge.

The other challenge is this is not a British or Australian company, it's a global company. And the questions in a very anti- Machiavellian way, by that I mean bad news overtime is being leaked out over time, we're learning new revelations, and all the optics are bad -- hacking into the phone of the 13-year-old girl who was later found to be dead, hacking into the phones of 9/11 victims apparently, hacking into the phones of deceased British Afghan and Iraq war veterans.

All of that speaks to a way of doing business and for Rupert Murdoch, for the entire enterprise, those are very difficult questions to deal with. They're not going away any time soon.

KAYE: Questions and allegations, we should point out, as the investigation continues. But I do want to ask you about this civil lawsuit against News Corp that was filed in Delaware. We also have the senators now wondering whether or not U.S. law might have been broken.

I mean, is this just the beginning, do you think?

LEVICK: I think it is just the beginning. You know, if you ask the question, is this pattern of practice -- and it goes back at least six, seven years in Britain -- what about his other properties? "The Wall Street Journal," who I might add, has been tepid in its coverage here. You know, if this was "The New York Times," who was alleged to have done this, I don't imagine there's enough news print in the world for them to have put out their coverage.

And yet when it's one of their own, when it's their owner, we see about one story a day on average. What about FOX? So, does Roger Ailes have investigations to do on his own?

Is this what journalism has become? You know, the question for Rupert Murdoch when he was asked yesterday morning what his first priority was, he put his arm around his number two, Rebekah Brooks, and he said she's my number one priority.

She's not his number one priority. The value of the fourth estate is what his number one priority is. Is this what journalism --

KAYE: How do you think he's handling this? I mean, what would you advise him? Is there something he can do better?

LEVICK: One, this is known as a tsunami. You know, unless you've been in this kind of storm before, he's not only dealing with legal issues and investigations in Britain, he's now being called before parliament. It's not mandatory, but he needs to decide if he wants to go. I think he's hard pressed not to go with his son and Ms. Brooks.

He's now being investigated for what's known as FCPA, for Corrupt Practices Act investigation. He also has stockholder litigation, which you alluded to. So -- and the list goes on. This is just the beginning.

How has he dealt with it so far? Usually, when you make a sacrifice -- in the old saying, in crisis, the gods of Washington and London demand the sacrifice. Usually sacrificing the "News of the World," sacrificing the BSkyB deal would have been enough.

But in this case, they may be enough for some audiences, but because he's dealing with 40 years of having offended and intimidated large numbers of politicians, competitors, and others, it's going to go on for sometime. It's historic in nature. And no, I don't think he used his weekend very well. I don't think he realized Monday morning just how significant this crisis is.

KAYE: If you had to bet, do you think he'll appear before Parliament or no?

LEVICK: I think he has to. If he doesn't, he's showing himself to be frightened. If he does, that's the moment where he needs to pivot and use it as a platform.

One of the things that's been missing through all of this is him announcing a top-to-bottom investigation. You know, I'm not so sure that "News of the World" was much of a sacrifice. It's a 168-year-old enterprise, highly profitable. But how much of it is he just shifting over to "The Sun" newspaper which has been historically underperforming?

B Sky B, significant sacrifice, but for how long? It clears up, it frees up an immense amount of liquid capital for him right now, which means in another year or two, he'll be in an excellent position to decide what to purchase at that point.

So, what have been his sacrifices? He has not announced the kind of deep investigations, and he's not made any human sacrifices. You know, his son James is still there, who signed the checks for the investigators. Miss Brooks is still there, who knew or should have known the kind of behavior that was being engaged. You cannot hire investigators for $100,000 a year and say, go find this story and then not ask how it occurred.

KAYE: All right. Richard Levick, appreciate your insight. And certainly this story isn't going away. I'm sure we'll be talking to you again soon. Thank you.

Well, you don't need me to tell you it is hot out there. But in some places, it's a bit more stifling than others. Chad Myers joins us in the CNN Severe Weather Center. Chad, a lot of folks asking, when is this going to end?

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAYE: Excellent advice, Chad. Thank you.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: You bet.

Well, explosions leave at least 20 dead in Mumbai, India. We'll have all the details for you right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Thirty-five minutes past the hour. Let's take a look at some of the other news and the headlines you may have missed.

Disaster in Mumbai today. At least 20 people were killed, more than 100 others hurt in a series of blasts in India's financial capital. Police say the triple blasts occurred within minutes of each other in several busy commercial areas. New Delhi and Calcutta have been placed on high alert. In it a statement today, President Obama condemned the attacks.

Since November of 2001, the nation's airports have seen more than 25,000 security breaches, ranging from trivial oversights to deliberate attacks. More than 14,000 involve people getting into secure areas without authorization. Roughly 6,000 involve passengers or bags that weren't properly screened. In more than 2,600 cases, people evaded screening to go get into so-called sterile areas, though again, it's not clear how many of these breaches were actually inadvertent. Top lawmakers are meeting with President Obama at the White House for the fourth straight day today. Leaders from both political parties still struggling to reach a deal to raise the nation's debt ceiling. Administrative officials have warned that failure to raise the current $14.3 trillion ceiling by August 2nd could trigger a partial default.

Speaking of the debt ceiling, how much clearer does Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke have to be? Today he repeated the same warning he has issued to Congress over and over. If it fails to raise the U.S. debt ceiling by August 2nd, the economic fallout could be, quote, "catastrophic." Bernanke also points out that a U.S. default would increase interest rates and send economic shock waves throughout the entire global system.

A three-judge federal appeals panel says Tucson shooting suspect Jared Lee Loughner can refuse anti-psychotic medication. The court ruled that forcing Loughner to take the drugs would violate his rights because he's not been convicted of a crime. Loughner is being held in a federal mental hospital after an earlier court ruling found him incompetent to stand trial.

And the U.S. women's soccer team is one step closer to partying like it's 1999. They defeated France a short while ago by a score of 3-1 to go to the World Cup final. They will face either Sweden or Japan. They play later today. Abby Wambach broke a hard fought tie in the seventy-ninth minute. Alex Morgan added an insurance goal in the eighty-second minute.

What more must Japan face from the nuclear plant disaster? Contaminated beef? Details with Michael Holmes, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: The CIA now involved in a secret mission in Somalia. A U.S. official tells CNN it involves the interrogation of terror suspects linked to an al Qaeda terrorist operation in Somalia.

Here to talk about it, of course, is Michael Holmes. So, I guess we're talking about, what is it, it's Al Shabab, right, in Somalia?

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's the organization that's in Somalia. And the U.S. is worried they're getting more and more comfy, if you like, with the al Qaeda affiliate in Yemen. So, there's been a lot of concern about this.

Now, "The Nation" magazine was reporting that the CIA has been involved in the interrogation of terror suspects, both at a little compound at Mogadishu airport. Also in a secret prison are they say, in the basement of the national security organization in the capital.

Now, Barbara Starr's contacts are saying that this has happened very rarely, that the CIA agents are there as observers. They might get the interrogators to ask a question, they're not directly involved. It's only happened a couple of times. But what it really does point to is growing concern in the U.S. intelligence area that they're getting too cozy, and they're worried about more terror coming out of Somalia.

KAYE: I mean, it really says something about how concerned they really are and how serious the situation is if they're putting CIA members there in Somalia. We know how dangerous it can be for our own people.

HOLMES: Absolutely. It's one of the most dangerous places to be. It's still a country largely run by warlords and clans and militias as well. So, to have CIA sending people in there to even observe interrogations, it says a lot about how worried they really are.

KAYE: I can't imagine what they really expect to find out. I mean, how forthcoming are these people really going to be?

HOLMES: What we've hearing is they haven't had a lot of success. Not a lot of actionable information has come out of these interrogations. But the fact they're happening is the relevant thing, which is interesting.

KAYE: Yes. I also want to talk about this story out South Korea. "The New York Times" is reporting just an alarming number of suicides. It's really a tough story to talk about. But I believe, if I remember correctly, three time the rate of suicide there than here in the U.S.

HOLMES: Yes, 30 people a day are committing suicide in South Korea. Very worrying statistics. It is three times -- it's the highest in the industrialized world and three times the U.S. rate, as you say.

And the thing is that it's covering all facets of society there, from rural farmers who are depressed about poverty, right through to athletes and entertainers and politicians. Very disturbing stuff.

The other thing that's linked to it -- it's the usual sort of reasons: poverty, stress, workload, all that sort of stuff. A couple of other factors come into it. In South Korea, it's almost a cultural thing to not be open to the idea of mental illness, not to go and get treated. The idea they normally end up down in the pub or talking to shamans.

KAYE: It has that stigma pretty much everywhere, sadly, which is why a lot of people don't get help. But I think there, I think I read also they're paying in cash when they do get help, so there's no record.

HOLMES: So it doesn't show up on their insurance. And South Korea, of course, one of the wealthiest, most advanced nations now in the industrialized world. Before they became wired and modernized and the way they are now, they had one of the lowest suicide rates in the industrialized world. Now it's the highest.

KAYE: Oh, that is very interesting.

HOLMES: Yes, that cultural side of it too, people not getting help. KAYE: Right. Another issue I want to talk about Japan.

HOLMES: Radioactive cows, yes.

KAYE: Yes. Whoa, this is not good.

HOLMES: No, it's not good. They found that radioactive meat from critters like those have actually reached consumers in eight different prefectures. They think it's meat from six cows, just six cows at the moment.

Now, yesterday we were going to talk about this on "Globe Trekking," but the president was on so we didn't do it. What we were going to talk about the fact that 11 cows had been found with elevated levels of radioactive cesium, three to six times above the safety standard set in Japan. But nobody knew whether the meat had actually gotten to consumers.

Now we're hearing today that meat from six cows has actually gotten through to consumers. What the Japanese officials are saying is don't panic. The levels they have set as safety levels are set for continued consumption, exposure over a long period of time. And that if you have a couple of steaks, you should be fine.

But it also does concern people because it's showing the food safety net, if you like, that they set up following the radiation crisis after the Fukushima plant isn't working. The meat got through. They think the cows got radioactive actually from eating hay.

KAYE: I'd like to be optimistic, but I remember last time the Japanese officials said don't worry, and look how bad it got.

HOLMES: Yes, well that's true.

(CROSSTALK)

HOLMES: Glad we had you on today, Michael. Good to see you. Thanks.

Owning a home doesn't stop when you close on the property. Find out how to keep costs down, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: In today's "Taking the Lead," a few tips to help you keep your home owning expenses low. When it's time to fix the roof or maybe finish the basement, it's always a good idea to negotiate with a contractor. The real estate market is in a slump, and some contractors will strike a deal to get your business. According to the consumer Web site Angie's List, 81 percent of contractors said they'd be willing to negotiate labor costs.

Keep your borrowing costs in check. The average rate on a 30- year mortgage was 4.7 percent in May, down from February's 5.1 percent. It's expected to creep back up next year. So, you've got a window here to refinance. You can also negotiate fees and other lending costs associated with a refi.

If you need new furniture, well, now might be the right time to buy. Furniture sales typically slow down in the summer, and some retailers might cut you a deal to move some of the stagnant inventory. But don't settle for the advertised deals. Sometimes you get more off by just asking. Floor models can also save you cash, up to 25 percent off in some cases.

So here's a question for you. Should parents lose custody of their kids if the children get too fat? Our Stream Team will tackle that question next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: In a handful of cases across the United States, morbidly obese children who were at risk of serious health problems were taken away from their parents. A Harvard pediatrics professor and obesity expert thinks this is a good idea. He says that the benefits that child protective services typically provide, such as in-home social support, parenting training, counseling, and financial assistance may address the problems of childhood morbid obesity.

But if none of this works, he says. then foster care is a viable alternative. So, the question for today's Stream Team is this: should morbidly obese children be taken from their homes, taken away from their parents?

Lisa Bloom is an attorney and the author of "Think Straight: Talk for Women to Stay Smart In a Dumbed-Down World." Gail Saltz is the associate professor of psychiatry at the New York Presbyterian Hospital. And Dr. Melina Jampolis is a physician nutrition specialist. Thank you all for coming and being part of the Stream Team today.

Lisa, I'd like to start with you. Do you support this recommendation? Do you think this is a good idea?

LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: If all else fails, yes. Parents are entrusted to protect the health and safety of their children. We wouldn't allow a child in a home that keeps a loaded gun on the table. We don't even like it when parents smoke frequently in front of their children. A child morbidly obese means that child is at serious risk of disease or even death because the parents aren't able to feed that child properly. They're overfeeding that child.

So, if parents can't get that under control via parenting classes or some other less restrictive alternative, the child has to be taken out of that home.

KAYE: Melina, if getting child protective services involved helped the majority of these kids, these morbidly obese kids but led to a few being pulled out of the home, do you think the program would be worth it?

DR. MELINA JAMPOLIS, INTERNIST, PHYSICIAN NUTRITION SPECIALIST: Well, I think this is a really complicated question because childhood obesity and obesity in general is so complicated. And there is a genetic component. We know that less than five percent actually have a genetic component, and we're learning about genes and their interaction with the environment. So, it's very complicated and it's a really loaded issue, and I don't think we've exhausted even remotely any of the societal things that should be in place to address this.

But as a last resort, because of the things that Lisa mentioned about the psychiatric impact and the health impact, if all else fails, for the sake of the child, if there is a sign of abuse or neglect from the parent, I would resort to that. But it would be a very, very difficult decision, and I think a lot of different experts would have to be involved to make that call.

KAYE: And Gail, I want to ask you. If you can pull a child out of the home for malnutrition - I mean, a lot of people would say, well, shouldn't you be able to pull them out for morbid obesity as well and return them when they get healthy and when they can get the support they need at home?

GAIL SALTZ, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF PSYCHIATRY: I think the instance of this being a positive is vanishingly rare. There are, of course, going to be bizarre cases.

But removing a child from a home is really traumatic. And the idea that you're going to stick a child in a foster home, which often, quite honestly, is not a great environment either and that that's going to keep them from eating, overeating, is frankly an oxymoron. It doesn't even make a lot of sense.

There are many factors that lead to childhood obesity, but emotional factors are one of them. So the idea that you're going to traumatize a child who doesn't have the experience at that moment of being abused, by taking them away from their family, is going to create another cascade of problems.

So, while I appreciate the fact that morbid obesity can create terrible problems, I think we have to look for other solutions. And I think that's different for malnutrition in the sense that that is a deprivation. That is a taking away and denying a child. This, in a roundabout way, I guess you could say is, but it's really more of an overdoing it, usually due to lack of education or emotional issues that are going on, like a replacement of love with food, lack of money and certain things that it seems to me really could be tackled in other ways.

KAYE: But, Melina, I mean, this really does come down in a way to economics. I mean, in a way, isn't this punishing poor people who may not be able to afford healthier, more expensive food, and then you take their children away?

JAMPOLIS: Yes, I think that's an excellent point. I think we have to face the fact this is much more of an issue in low-income minorities and that that's where the resources need to be focused. And these people often don't have the budget, the time to come home and shop and prepare healthy meals and get exercise for their kids. They're not exercising themselves. They don't have the resources to go to a gym. And if they live in a community where it's not safe to walk, they can't walk in the evenings with their kids.

So I think we need to focus much more on the resources to these type of parents. And it is, we cannot just say that these parents have their children taken away because they're not trying hard enough because it is such a complex disease, obesity, that we cannot just blame the parents. We have to support them and do whatever they can financially and emotionally to get them on the right track for their kids.

KAYE: All right. We are going to have to leave it there. Lisa, I'm so sorry. I know you wanted to add something in. I could continue to --

BLOOM: No worries. I just wanted to stick up for foster parents.

KAYE: OK. There you go! All right. You got the last word.

Thank you all for coming on. Appreciate it. Very important discussion. Thank you.

Time now for CNN Political Update. CNN's Joe Johns joining me from the political desk in Washington. Joe, the Republican party has new ads out slamming the president. What do you know?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Randi. Do you remember the speeches by President Obama a while back comparing the economy to a car stuck in a ditch? You know, I remember them. It seems to me he said this repeatedly.

Well, it's no secret that the Republicans have picked up on that theme, sort of expanded on it, actually to the point now that their first ad uses a car metaphor. The car lands in the water at the end of the spot. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDDO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You see, we Democrats have a very different measure of what constitutes progress in this country. We measure progress by how many people can find a job that pays the mortgage. Whether you can put a little extra money away --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: Well, it looks like we're not going to get all the way to the car there. But -- didn't quite get all the way to the car there. Probably needed to cue it up a little later. The spot is supposed to air mostly in battleground states that the president won in 2008. Where the time around, the GOP is hoping they're going to be competitive. The second try is a charm, Randi.

KAYE: All right, Joe. Thanks so much.

All right. You've only got 140 letters to convince a university to admit you as a student? What would you say? My "XYZ" is next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Time now for my "XYZ."

Here's a question for you. Could you land a scholarship in 140 characters or less? The University of Iowa is challenging prospective students to submit tweets in place of a second application essay. The person with the best tweet gets a scholarship, a full scholarship to the university's business school. That means that tweet is worth about $37,000.

The school is reportedly doing this because it says the application essays were becoming unoriginal. The tweet has to answer this question: what makes you an exceptional full-time MBA candidate and future MBA hire?

In case you're wondering, the University of Iowa is not the first to do this. Kentucky Fried Chicken offers a Colonel's Twitter scholarship. Scholarship.com also does it. It helps students find money for college and offers a "Short and Tweet" scholarship by asking student to sum up their college experience in a tweet to win some money and a Kindle.So, instead of an 800-word essay, they have to come up with a 140-character tweet.

Boy, have times changed since I applied to college all those years ago. I didn't have to sweat those essays. Wouldn't that have been great, Brooke?

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Essay after essay after essay. Where were the tweets when we were coming along, Randi Kaye?

KAYE: I don't know. It would have been a whole lot easier.

BALDWIN: I know it.

Randi, thank you so much. Have a great rest of your day.