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Rupert Murdoch Scandal Escalates; Clock Ticks Toward Default; Debt Ceiling Negotiations Continue; U.S. Doctors Learning to Treat Battlefield Injuries; Emmy Nominations Announced

Aired July 14, 2011 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: And hello to you all.

We start anew at the top of this hour. And the news we're just getting in might not be good for the Rupert Murdoch empire. Word now that the FBI is looking into this whole hacking scandal. You know the scandals now of News International started in Great Britain, but it has now a chance to possibly make it over to the United States.

But we have confirmed through the FBI that they are now, there's law enforcement sources that the FBI is now looking into this hacking scandal in which journalists who worked for News International and tabloids over in Great Britain possibly tried to hack into the phone numbers of 9/11 victims and possibly some other U.S. citizens.

So now this scandal that started over in Great Britain has a chance to make it to the United States and the FBI it appears right now is getting involved. We will have much more on this still developing story throughout the next couple of hours here on CNN.

Also coming up for you this hour, the man accused of killing and mutilating an 8-year-old boy is arraigned in court, the charges, first-degree kidnapping and first-degree murder. We will take you there coming up.

And as Randi Kaye just mentioned to you a moment ago, L.A. is gearing up for gridlock. You might be thinking, well, what's the big deal? It's L.A. They are used to gridlock on their highways. But this is different. They are calling it Carmageddon, and it's set to begin soon.

But first, let me give you a update about where we are on these debt negotiations going on in Washington, D.C. At 4:15, that's a little more than an hour from now, the talks are set to resume right there at the White House. Now, it was this time yesterday we told you that these talks were getting a bit testy.

The two sides, why not be getting testy? They are under pressure of an August 2 deadline to get a deal to raise the debt ceiling or risk a U.S. government default on its bills. Well, last evening we are told things became even more testy, extremely heated. We will get to more on that in just a moment, but first an extremely urgent call within the past half-hour from the treasury secretary himself. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIMOTHY GEITHNER, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: The eyes of the country are on us, and the eyes of the world are on us, and we need to make sure we stand together and send a definitive signal that we're going to take the steps necessary to avoid default and also take advantage of this opportunity to make some progress in dealing with our long-term fiscal problems. We don't have much time. It's time we move.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Yes. He said they are running out of ways to try to find Congress more time. He said there's no way to give them more time to try to come to an agreement on this debt ceiling. Coming up in just a few minutes, we will be talking to a key Democrat, Democratic Congressman Sander Levin. He will join me in just a moment.

What you're hearing and seeing here is a family's heart-wrenching goodbye to their 8-year-old son. Thousands gathered. They gathered there to say goodbye to Leiby Kleztky. His funeral was with his family. You're seeing some of the video of it here.

Now, Leiby was brutally murdered and his body found in pieces yesterday -- 35-year-old Levi Aron is charged with kidnapping and murder in the case. Police say Leiby was walking home alone from day camp for the first time Monday when he got lost, and he stopped to ask for directions, and that was the last time he was seen alive.

What you're seeing is surveillance video of Aron, the suspect, and the boy outside a dentist office. Now this clue at the dentist office helped them track down their suspect.

Now Levi Aron made his first appearance in court just a few minutes ago. He's just been formally charged with murder and kidnapping in the first degree.

Our Deborah Feyerick joins us now from New York.

Deb, how did this all go down in court?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was very brief.

Levi Aron has been ordered to undergo a two-week psychiatric evaluation. He's also being put on suicide watch. His defense lawyers in court saying that he told them that he hears voices. Now, Aron has been charged with kidnapping and murdering of that 8-year-old little boy, Leiby Kleztky. Surveillance video shows the child walking home by himself, a backpack slung over his shoulder.

He was walking home for the first time from day camp. He had arranged with his parents to meet them halfway. Again, every parent wrestles with this. How much freedom do you give a child and at what age? They had done a dry run, but apparently he took a wrong turn, and police say that he met Aron and then they went to a dentist's office, where he waited for the man. This wasn't technically a stranger because he looked like all the other men in his community, conservatively dressed. He was kind, offered to take the boy home, but the child never made it home. There was an all-out manhunt, and Aron says that when he saw what was going on, saw the search for the boy, he apparently panicked, and that's when he dismembered the child, putting his body parts in a suitcase and some in a refrigerator in that home, this according to police.

But, again, the tragedy for this family, especially because it had been a topic of conversation, and you can see the suitcase there where the child is said to have been put or parts of him put in there. Anyway, they're looking in the dumpster there. Again, a real tragedy for this family this, for this community, for this neighborhood, T.J.

HOLMES: And you said there technically a stranger, but is there any indication that the suspect knew the little boy at all?

FEYERICK: No, none at all, and that's what is so shocking to members of the Jewish community, that -- that -- the randomness of the act, that of all people this child would have encountered, that he encountered somebody who -- who could do something like this, again, the kind of thing that in your mind you go over and over and over again with what if, what if? I knew I shouldn't have, so really just a tragedy, a big tragedy for this family.

HOLMES: Yes, the family and the community as a whole, what -- I mean, that was an overwhelming response when the boy went missing in the first place and like you said the suspect is saying that's what kind of first scared him, but what's the reaction, and what has it been now after the fact, after not just to find out the boy has been killed, but to be killed in such a graphic manner?

FEYERICK: Well, what we're being told is actually at the family's home there were signs that were put up clearly saying that the family had not been told of the details, because you can imagine a number of people going to try to figure out what their response was, but the family apparently has not been specifically told of how the child died, just that he died.

So, again, they had to have been kind of aware because the child was put in a casket. And so -- but again, it's just so horrible that it's not the kind of thing you can talk about, much less imagine.

HOLMES: Yes, and the video to our viewers you're seeing there is the new video we're just getting in. That was the suspect, Aron, that Deb has been talking about getting in the vehicle there, but, again, making his first court appearance, now formally charged. But you see the press just all around. This is a story that has really shocked the story, but really a nation to hear some of the details.

And, Deb, it's a pretty good idea that maybe some of the family members being spared some of those details.

Deb, we appreciate you as always, just a horrible, horrible story. Thank you so much. We will turn live now to a live picture I will be looking at with you. For the first time I'm seeing this with you, folks, this just in to us from our affiliate out in Seattle. This appears -- we see these every now and again and you can see there a man there struggling a bit. This is apparently a window washer out there in Washington State. He had a bit of an incident on the side of that building. He is stuck.

He has a harness there, so he's holding on for dear life. I don't think that is an overstatement to say. It looks like they are trying to reach him, the firefighters there, reach him by ladder. Now, I'm told this is a window watcher. And we -- again, we see these incidents. It's amazing that these guys do what they do sometimes as high up as they do it.

But it looks like a firefighter is making his way up to this gentleman. But who knows how long he's been stuck here. I don't have that idea. But still we're getting this live picture in. This has been going on for a minute here, and you know it probably felt like quite a long time to that window washer to be hanging there, stuck, not able to get off the side of the building.

I don't have good perspective here. Again I'm seeing this picture with you folks for the first time, so the perspective of just how high up he may be on the side of this building. Now, you don't see a scaffolding, anything under him. Maybe that fell. Maybe he lost that somewhere in this whole process of his job today, but it looks like they have made it to him.

Now, from this picture it looks like things will be fine for the gentleman, but I assure you he probably doesn't feel the same way until his feet are on solid ground. You see the firefighters there up top.

We will get some more perspective of this building and make sure my man is going to be OK here. But it looks like they are -- feet on something solid. That feels good, doesn't it? It looks like he might be all right and be able to climb down that ladder. So we will try to get some more details to see exactly what was happening to him out there. Again this is in Seattle.

We're 10 minutes past the hour, and we will have to turn back on to this story, this horrible story out of New York that's just shocked the neighborhood, shocked the city, shocked the nation really, and now there's a man accused of killing that little boy, killing him and dismantling his body. We're talking about this case of the 8-year-old little boy, little Leiby.

But could the person accused now be behind other child murders?

Also, what does the stream of surveillance videos tell us about the crime and the suspect? Going to be talking to a criminal profiler coming up next. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HOLMES: All right. We return now to the story we have been following about that gruesome murder of an 8-year-old boy. There he is. Police say Leiby Kleztky was smothered and mutilated by 35-year- old Levi Aron.

I want to bring in now Pat Brown, founder and CEO of the Sexual Homicide Exchange, to talk about this crime.

Pat, we appreciate you being here. A horrible, horrible story. We will listen to the suspect's ex-wife in just a second, but before I get to that sound, I want to ask this question of you. Before you even know anything about this man or even any history, to hear this crime, you don't start your criminal career with a crime like this, do you?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Yes.

Well, there's probably something in the past. I mean, he's not that young, so he's been an adult for a good 12 years. So it's possible that there are other crimes and he's lived in other places, so they will start backtracking and seeing if other little boys have gone missing wherever he's lived.

HOLMES: OK. Let's take a listen now to what his ex-wife actually giving us some insight maybe into this suspect. Let's listen. I will ask you about it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEBBIE KIVEL, EX-WIFE OF SUSPECT: Nobody knows what's going on. I'm just now finding out information. I have been in total shock since my phone has been ringing off the hook at 8:00 this morning. I had spoken to him not long ago, and everything seemed to be fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Total shock. Everything seemed to be fine.

Is that really possible that sometimes it happens and we have no idea about people and what they are capable of or you think there had to be a sign of something?

BROWN: Well, there's always a sign of psychopathy, but a lot of times we don't recognize it's going to lead to this, and a lot of times we minimize behaviors or sort of accept them and say, well, they're just odd.

And believe me, this guy is a serial killer. He's an unknown serial killer until now. The question is has he done something before and would he have done something in the future, but the answer is absolutely yes. And what he's telling us, what Aron is saying is a pack of lies. First of all, he's hearing voices now so he can try to get the insanity defense and he's also blaming the community for dismembering that little boy.

In other words, he's saying if it weren't for the community, I wouldn't have done that. And that is garbage, because he's pretty much like Jeffrey Dahmer. When he took that little boy, he had a plan for that child, he did something horrible to that child, and he probably -- and he smothered that child and he dismembered him either because he liked to dismember people, like Jeffrey Dahmer, he might -- unfortunately, cannibalism is in the cards, which makes us even shudder even more horribly.

He might have liked to keep the child around, who knows, but some people keep parts in the freezer of their victims. They enjoy that. And eventually he was planning to probably get rid of the body, dispose of the body in pieces so he could get it out of that third- floor house he was living in and not have anybody be suspicious. But I don't think the community had anything to do with it. He's just trying to blame them for what happened to the little boy. He's a psychopath.

HOLMES: OK. On that issue of the little boy, let's listen to police here and I will ask you about it on the other side as well, but police, more details coming out. They say the suspect actually left the boy at his apartment and went to work on Tuesday. Let's listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAYMOND KELLY, NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: The boy was in the apartment, that he came home after going to work. We know he went to work. We know he had changed his appearance somewhat. He shaved more closely on Tuesday than he normally does, and he did come home from work, or he left -- he left work at the usual time on Tuesday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: What does that tell you if someone did that? The suspect we're talking about here left the boy, came back home. What does that say to you?

BROWN: Well, first of all, we don't know what he actually did because those are Aron's words. He's telling the police that. He may be trying to indicate the child was alive until he was forced into killing him because of the big search.

In fact the child may have already been dead or it is possible he had him tied up there and duct-taped. That could be true as well, but we don't know that because it's coming out of Aron's mouth and nobody's else's. So I wouldn't believe anything he has to say unless we get forensics that prove a time of death or anything, but at this point I don't think they will find that.

HOLMES: And, Pat, so I want to go back to something you said a moment ago. You said this person, in your estimation, again, suspect right now, he allegedly or reportedly has confessed here, but you're saying or you said that he is a serial killer.

BROWN: Correct.

HOLMES: Now, are you saying he may have or may have not killed someone in the past? Are you just saying that that is in him to be a serial killer, no matter if he's killed someone before or not?

BROWN: Exactly. It's his personality. It's something he likes to do. You don't just wake up one day and say, look, I want to abduct a little boy and possibly rape the little child and murder the child. You just don't wake up one day and say that.

You are what you are. The fact is we just haven't found out what you're connected to. So it's a good thing they found him right now. Hopefully he hasn't killed before, but they might find out that he has a string of murders. But thank God he's off the street because he would continue doing exactly what he is doing.

And no community is safe. He was able to -- people say, how did this happen? Well, he's looking for a stranger, somebody he's not connected to, so any time there's a little boy just available for a few seconds, there's a window of opportunity, he can grab it, and he does follow some of the rules of the community. And that's kind of easy for him to mimic, because psychopaths are good at mimicking.

So if they can mimic some behaviors of a community, that puts everyone at ease and makes them think he's one of us, when in fact he is not. Thank God for cameras. Those cameras on the streets are the biggest thing we have in crime fighting today. Saved a lot of lives.

HOLMES: That's a good point and certainly in New York you can't walk two blocks without being caught on camera.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: He would have gotten away with this crime without that camera. He would not have been caught. He would not have been caught

HOLMES: Good point.

Pat, thank you so much. A tough story here to be talking about, but, Pat Brown, thank you, as always.

(CROSSTALK)

HOLMES: Well, 18 minutes past the hour now. We turn out to a mess in Los Angeles.

No matter how bad you think your commute was this morning, no matter how bad you think traffic is in your city, it is nothing compared to what's about to happen in L.A. Have you ever heard about this yet? I know sometimes they go over the top with the names of things, but this one might actually be dead on. It's called Carmageddon. A 10-mile chunk of a major interstate set to shut down tomorrow. Now folks are bracing for this gridlock. We will tell you all about this coming up. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: All right. Southern California bracing for what they are calling Carmageddon. This weekend, a 10-mile stretch of the 405 Freeway will close for 53 hours as part of a $1 billion construction project. Now any given weekend half a million vehicles use the 405.

The detour is expected to cause epic traffic jams between Burbank and L.A. Now, they are trying to get the word out, and look at who they dug up, Ponch from the old TV show "CHiPs." Yes, Erik Estrada, he has come out to try to help people and warn people to stay away. Look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIK ESTRADA, ACTOR: Hi. I'm Erik Estrada, and I'm here with real motorcycle police officers to remind you that the weekend of July 16 and 17, a 10-mile stretch of the 405 Freeway will be closed from the 10 to the 101 Freeway.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: What's he been up to lately? Other celebrities, including Ryan Seacrest, Kim Kardashian, Lady Gaga, they are actually tweeting warnings out there to their followers to stay clear of the 405.

Also, get this. JetBlue, they have come up with a solution to this traffic nightmare, just fly people around it, $4 flights, $4, folks, from one side of town to the other. Would you believe they have sold out?

Our Sandra Endo is in L.A. for us.

Sandra, it's tough sometimes to get people around the country to understand just how big of a deal the 405 is. You don't want to be on it when it's all good. So you certainly don't want to be on it this weekend. Help people get some perspective of just how big of a traffic nightmare the 405 is on a day-to-day basis.

SANDRA ENDO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, T.J., this is bigger than any Hollywood production.

Imagine a major artery servicing San Fernando Valley to Orange County completely shutting down, and local officials have been gearing up for this massive shutdown for weeks now. I'm here in front of the metro station servicing San Fernando Valley to North Hollywood.

They are encouraging people to take the train, also buses. They will have free buses over the weekend as well for people who need to get around, but, T.J., I have to say, this is a car-dependent town. This is kind of like shutting down the 75-85 in Atlanta or the Beltway in D.C. or the Long Island Expressway in New York.

It is not going to be pretty, and this is all going to take place over the weekend. As you mentioned, it will affect nearly half a million drivers and it's all for a $1 billion construction project to expand the 405, to add an HOV lane, and also they will be taking down a bridge in terms of dealing with this whole process of expanding the roadway.

So clearly it's a big undertaking, and transportation officials are saying to people, hey, look, just stay home.

HOLMES: We will see if that...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE MILES, DIRECTOR, CALIFORNIA TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT: We're expecting a lot of traffic, but we're hoping that we can manage it. But the biggest thing that's going to help is if the public stays away and stays home on this weekend. Most of the people go through their lives trying to avoid the 405. This is the one weekend we want to tell you really need to avoid the 405.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ENDO: Yes. So we will see how bad it is. It could be a traffic nightmare, or just easy-breezy, so we will see.

But I have to tell you, T.J., I'm a Valley girl. I grew up in Northridge. I'm living there right now. My family has to take the 405 every day. It's a major lifeline. We take it to grandma's house, and, unfortunately, this weekend I had to tell her I'm not coming over, grandma.

HOLMES: Aww. Well, instead, just go over the river and through the woods instead of down the 405. Only in the L.A. would you go on the 405 to get to grandma's house.

Sandra, good to see you, as always. We will talk to you again soon. Again, that is happening again this weekend, folks, the 405. We will give you some updates to see how goes it out there in L.A. this weekend.

Also, we will be getting back to the debt ceiling talks set to get under way again at the top of the hour, less than an hour away from those talks going into another day.

But up next, that gentleman will be talking to me. Democratic Congressman Sander Levin joins me about what's happening and what's the buzz up on Capitol Hill right now. He's with me in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Debt negotiations set to resume in less than an hour at the White House. Let's see, they told me 4:15 Eastern time, so certainly less than an hour away here.

There was some talk this morning about a possible weekend session at Camp David. It seems like that didn't get very far.

Let's turn now to Capitol Hill to Representative Sander Levin. He's a Democrat of Michigan, also a member of the Ways and Means Committee.

Sir, we appreciate you giving us some time today.

There was reports today that the meetings last night ended abruptly, and with kind of a tense exchange made between Leader Cantor and also the president. What is the buzz up there on Capitol Hill today and the reaction to what happened last night?

REP. SANDER LEVIN (D), MICHIGAN: Well, the buzz is this. There seems to be roadblocks. And I think some people here think the debt crisis isn't a real crisis, and somehow we can just let it happen.

That would be a terrible mistake. You know, the House Republicans talked a lot about the uncertainty in our economy, and I think because they are so obstinate, they are creating greater and greater uncertainty. And I wonder what it will take.

You know, last time we went through a crisis, not as great, we had to turn down something, and then the stock market went down almost 800 points. We should not go through that again. Everybody should understand that we have got to face up to this. We have got to -- we can't pass the buck to anybody.

HOLMES: And some are saying, at least the Republican side, are saying a part of this solution is you do have to make a change in the way you do business.

Debt ceiling is one thing, yes, but they are also saying you have got to make some changes. And part of this -- we just saw the Republicans come out one by one to the microphones and saying that part of it is a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution.

Would you be OK with that, and do you think Democrats could go along with that?

LEVIN: No way. Look, many of them talk about the sacred nature of the constitution, and they now want to change it and put in restrictions that would tie up this place really to carry out a budget plan that's very unpopular that would end Medicare. That's really what they are after.

No, they should not talk about changing the constitution. They need to change how they are approaching this and putting off I think a decision that simply has to be made. It has to be made. If our economy goes haywire, what's going to be the -- the results for our economy and throughout the world? We cannot play with fire. Sparks with already flying and there's a real danger here that we're going to burn up important parts of our economy. We can't take that chance.

HOLMES: Well, sir, do you think that the president needs to go this route? Apparently a part of this meeting last night, the reportedly, he and Eric Cantor, the majority leader, had a little back and forth to end that meeting. And he reportedly told Mr. Cantor, quote, "Eric, don't call my bluff. I'm going to the American people with this."

Now, in your opinion, can that work? Is that a part of the problem, that the American people need to be convinced that the president and the Democrats are right? Haven't the American people been educated to a good point about what's happening up there? But do you think that works for the president if he just forgets the negotiation and says I'm going to the American people, get them on my side and you'll have to come to my side?

LEVIN: He didn't say forget about negotiations. They are going back, as you said, in less than an hour, but what happens is that instead of buckling down and talking about alternatives -- savings, yes, and the Republicans willing to talk about some revenues, closing loopholes, taking on, for example, provisions for oil and gas that never should have been there in the first place, and also taking on tax revisions that help some people pay instead of regular taxes like everybody else does, capital gains taxes when it's their services that are being provided.

No, the president isn't saying let's forget about it, I'll go to the people. What he's saying is, look, you've got to understand what's at stake, and you've got to sit and put key issues on the table. Let's resolve it and not pass the buck. That's what he's saying. If necessary, if you just put a complete roadblock, I'll go to the people, but what would be the results in between? Now he was saying get sensible.

HOLMES: You talk about that complete roadblock and I'll let you go on this and Democrats came to the mike and a lot of them just let Eric Cantor have it calling him the one at the table who has yet to give any concessions and he's the one holding things up. Do you agree with that, that Eric Cantor doesn't need to be at the table and he is the one that is holding things up?

LEVIN: No. He should be at the table, but he should look at the American interests instead of the kind of dynamics within his own caucus. There are some people in the Republican caucus who think this isn't a crisis, that we don't have to worry too much about it, that somehow we'll limp through.

But they are really playing with fire economically, and all of the citizens of this country would be affected, and it would ripple throughout the world. Look, we're worried about the crisis in Greece or Italy, what would happen there. What would happen if full faith and credit of the United States is jeopardized? It would affect all of us on Main Street. That's what -- so I'm not saying to Eric Cantor don't go to the table. I'm saying go to the table with an open mind instead of kind of a closed fist when it comes to tackling these problems.

HOLMES: Representative Levin, we appreciate you taking the time.

LEVIN: Glad to be here.

HOLMES: We will see what happens when the meeting takes place here in less than an hour. Thank you so much, sir.

LEVIN: Thank you.

HOLMES: And as we were just talking about, some reports that President Obama has just about had it, that he has given both sides until tomorrow to decide what the next step is in these marathon debt talks. But will these Democrats and Republicans actually come together and just get this done? David Gergen's answer next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Well, late today the governor of Minnesota offered an olive branch in an effort to get his state government back up and running. Minnesota's government was forced to shut down two weeks ago when budget talks between Democrats and Republicans collapsed. Sound familiar?

Well, today the governor, Governor Dayton, sent a letter to GOP lawmakers offering to accept their latest proposal with three exceptions. Dayton is asking the GOP to drop social policy changes they added to Minnesota's budget as well as their call for 15 percent reduction in the state work force.

Minnesota's governor is also asking Republicans to approve a construction projects Bill totaling at least $500 million. It's a compromise that the governor says he does not believe in, but he says the shutdown is just too destructive and too many Minnesotans are hurting right now.

So will the GOP there in the state accept it? Will lawmakers in Washington also follow the example of Minnesota with potential compromise? Are any politicians these days ready to compromise? Let's bring in CNN political analyst David Gergen. David, good to see you.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good to see you, T.J.

HOLMES: Is it a dirty word, "compromise"? Is that a dirty word these days?

(LAUGHTER)

GERGEN: Well, it has become that in many circles, you know. Grover Norquist, who was featured here on CNN yesterday -- Wolf Blitzer had a live interview with hem last night -- has famously said in the past that -- that compromise is a form of -- and bipartisan is a form of date rape, form of date rape. I think they got a lot of hackles up.

But I'll tell you, you know, the kind of sentiment you saw yesterday in that room, the cabinet room. There are conflicting reports, but clearly these people don't like each other very much. The rumors circulated this morning that the negotiations might -- the president might call them to Camp David for the weekend, which used to be sort of a wonderful honor to be called to Camp David for a summit. That's where a Middle Eastern summit was held, very successful, by Jimmy Carter years ago.

And we have two people, two leaders, both Speaker Boehner and Nancy Pelosi said no, thanks, we don't want to go. They don't look like they really want to break bread together very often, do they?

HOLMES: OK, well, it sounds like, David, it seems like you have to make so many concessions to get elected and people have -- they are forced and put their pledges in their faces and sign a pledge not to do this and not to do that, and they are trying to stick to those pledges. Is that part of our problem? Are we seeing anything extraordinary necessarily up on Capitol Hill, or are we just going through another nasty cycle of negotiations for a big budget?

GERGEN: I think we've seen a deterioration over the years in the level of bipartisanship and the willingness to work together. I first came to Washington in the early 1970s and people were strong Democrats or they were strong Republicans, but the World War II generation, those folks thought of themselves as first and foremost strong Americans. And that feeling has dissipated a lot as the World War II generation has passed from the scene.

I can tell you on good authority that Barack Obama would love to have Bob Dole representing the Republicans in that room right now because he looks upon Bob Dole and Pete Domenici and Howard Baker as the kind of Republicans you can do business with. Well, there are a lot of Republicans in there who would like to see some of the kind of Democrats they used to have to deal with, like Tip O'Neill, Speaker of the House, a Democrat, he was willing to compromise with Reagan on many occasions.

HOLMES: OK, you talk about Republicans he can deal, and we heard Democrats come out, maybe about an hour ago, and one after one, including Leader Reid, Dick Durbin as well, and they were blasting Eric Cantor, the majority leader, saying he is the problem at the table. You've heard the president come out and say that Boehner is someone he thinks is sincere and can work with. So is Eric Cantor the problem?

GERGEN: No.

HOLMES: No.

GERGEN: And I think the politics of another era always said don't demonize the other side. Don't personalize this. Try to stick to the issues and see what you can work out. When Eric Cantor come to the table, does he feel strongly about what he's saying? Yes, obviously. But he also represents a very strong sentiment within the Republican ranks, you know. He's -- you know, he represents a lot of people in the Republican Party.

There are deep conflicts between these two parties philosophically. Can they find a way out? Yes. CNN has just posted a blog I wrote today in which I argue it's time for a truce. It's time for a cease-fire in place. I believe that the items are there to get a deal if people put aside their personal animosities and look at what they have achieved so far and agree on some things, that I think both parties can find something that was in there for them.

But most importantly it would be good for the country. We have to avert a default on our national debt obligations. The latest country to send that message is China, for goodness sake, holding $1 trillion worth of U.S. debt. They sent a very clear message -- hey, guys, get your act together. You must not go into default. Bernanke is saying this. Everyone who is serious about the future of the U.S. economy is saying the same thing.

The most important thing right now is forget about everything else. Make sure we get past the default deadline and handle it well and then let's move back to some of these really significant issues on the debt crisis we're facing as well as a jobs crisis we're facing.

HOLMES: David Gergen, good to talk to you.

GERGEN: Thank you so much.

HOLMES: Thank you so much. But you said it, David. It seems like they don't even like each other. That's a big problem when you're trying to compromise.

GERGEN: It sure is.

HOLMES: We'll direct people to the blog that we posted. Thanks so much.

We're about a quarter off the top of the hour now. And can traumatic injuries American troops are suffering in Iraq and Afghanistan, can they actually help people here at home? Our Barbara Starr has a fascinating look into medical breakthroughs doctors have discovered from the battlefield. That is next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Well, this fall marks 10 years the U.S. has been at war in Afghanistan. There's a strong connection between the care that troops receive on the battlefield and medical care here at home. In fact, some innovative techniques for treating traumatic injuries were developed on the battlefield out of pure necessity.

Our Barbara Starr joins us from the Pentagon. Barbara, always good to see you. It seems kind of odd here. It seems like tough to get training here that will prepare you for the battlefields, and then you go to the battlefield and it actually trains you to come back here and be better at your job as well. But you spent some time with doctors, medics and nurses that were going to be deployed?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Yes. You know, it really is a medical two-way street, if you will.

HOLMES: Yes.

STARR: A lot of techniques being developed in the war to help people back home, if they suffer trauma, accidents, injuries here back home, there's been an awful lot of learning, sadly, about how to deal with all of this after all of these years of war.

But for the Sanjay Gupta show we went to the Baltimore Shock Trauma Hospital quite close to Washington here to have a look at a very unique training program that they have there where medical personnel, military medical personnel, about to go to the warzone first go to this local civilian trauma hospital to learn how to deal with some of the injuries that they will be treating once they get to the warzone.

Here, a lot of them are doing the sniffles and the sore throat treatment. It's bomb blasts, burns, and other trauma injuries when they get to the front line. So I want you to have a little look at some of what we found when we went there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: Lieutenant Colonel Allan Ward is an Air Force flight surgeon who normally certifies air crews are healthy enough to fly.

LT. COL. ALLAN WARD, U.S. AIR FORCE FLIGHT SURGEON: Even as a flight surgeon, expect to be a jack-of-all-trades. But really in garrison, when we're not deployed. I'm an outpatient internal medicine guy.

STARR: Before getting to Afghanistan, he says this will help him learn to prioritize multiple critical patients under battlefield conditions and sharpen his ability to make rapid decisions.

WARD: I expect to see gunshot wounds. I expect to see traumatic brain injuries from explosive devices. That means burns as well. A lot of orthopedic injuries, and, really, some horrific stuff. And what I'm doing here is getting exposure to a lot of the things I'll be seeing over there. It's an immersion really in a high-volume trauma center.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: So we certainly hope, you know, people here don't need to go to their local emergency room for any kind of critical trauma care, but if they do or their family members do, these days there's a pretty good chance that either the emergency room doc, the nurse, the medical technician may have served in the warzone, may have been a reservist who has come back home, may have been on active duty and is now retired and gone into private medical practice, if you will.

Thousands have served in medical jobs over the last ten years, and they are now spread out across this country sharing what they have learned. T.J.?

HOLMES: All right, Barbara Starr, great stuff. You can more of this this weekend of course of "SANJAY GUPTA M.D." You're teaming up with the good doctor this weekend. So thanks so much, Barbara. Good to see you, as always.

STARR: Sure thing.

HOLMES: And did you hear folks. There is this new list now, this year's Emmy nominees. That list is out. Some surprises in there. Also, another surprise of you. Have all of you "Gleeks" out there heard about the major shakeup on your favorite show? Kareen Wynter is going to join me next and explain to me exactly when a "gleek" is in the first place. Kareen is with me after the break. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Well, Hollywood woke up extra early morning, or maybe stayed up late for the 63rd primetime Emmy nominations. There were some surprises, some new shows, new faces, all going for TV's top honor. Also, one of primetime's most popular shows may be losing some of its bigger characters this fall. It's time for trending. And for that let's join Kareen Wynter. She was up early as well. Kareen, good to see you as always.

Tell us, even before the winners are announced, who is the big winner as far as the nominations go?

KAREEN WYNTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: My goodness, a shining morning, T.J. for HBO. It led the way with the most nominations of any network again this year with a whopping 104. Last year they got 101. So they're doing better this year, right.

And the spot light was on two of their new series, this in the drama category, T.J., "Boardwalk Empire" and medieval fantasy show "Game of Thrones." Those two series alone earned 31 nominations this morning. But they'll have to battle it out with AMC favorite "Mad Men" which earned 19 noms and has won the best drama Emmy three times before.

The other contenders for top drama include "Dexter," "Friday Night Lights," and "The Good Wife." A snub really for "The Closer's" Kyra Sedgwick. She took home the big Emmy last year in the lead actress drama category, but didn't get a nod this year. A few of the nominated leading ladies include, however, "The Good Wife's" Julianna Margulies, Kathy Bates, and "Law and Order's" Marishka Hargitay.

As for the leading men, we can't leave them out. Look for a possible Emmy win for "Dexter's" Michael C. Hall, "Mad Men's" John Hamm, or even "Boardwalk Empire's" Steve Buscemi, one of my personal favorites.

To the comedy category we go. The nominees to watch will be ABC's "Modern Family," which of course won last year. And we're wondering, will this funny family beat out "Glee" and "The Office" again this year? Speaking of "The Office," Steve Carell got his sixth leading acting nomination this morning. But T.J., get this. It's really hard to believe he's never won. So the buzz is that Steve is the funny man to beat, especially since he won't be returning to "The Office" next year. This was his last season. So wouldn't that just be absolutely spectacular and fantastic for Steve to go out this way?

HOLMES: So this is his last shot at it. Before we came to you, "Gleeks," I swear I did not understand what this was about, but Gleeks out there big into the show "Glee" they might be upset. Might be big changes to the show.

WYNTER: Well, you know, even in the world of TV, television land, we all have to grow up at some point, right? So the big three stars we'll be leaving the show, Leah Michelle, Chris Colfer, and Cory Monteith, they still have one more season, so don't shed any tears just yet. They have one more season of singing on "Glee." But it will reportedly be their last. Their characters will be seniors.

And you know how the storyline goes. They're going to be graduating next season. Leah tweeted about her departure, saying, quote "We always knew we would graduate in real time. It's all part of the plan and it's all good. It's going to make season three amazing to gleeks everywhere. You're in my heart now and forever, love you all. This is just the beginning."

But not to worry, as we say out there, "Glee's" executive producer says the show will go on. And it has to, because what would we do if "Glee" didn't exist anymore? What would we watch?

HOLMES: Um, sports?

WYNTER: There you have the whole wrap-up for you.

(LAUGHTER)

Reality TV? Hello, my favorite.

HOLMES: Goodness. Kareen, appreciate the education, as always. Kareen Wynter in L.A. thanks so much.

WYNTER: OK, anytime.

HOLMES: We're getting close to the top of the hour. Paul Steinhauser will be joining us in just a moment. He's standing by with your Political Ticker. That's next.

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HOLMES: It is not time for your CNN = Politics update. Paul Steinhauser joins us with the latest from the CNN Political Ticker. Paul, hello to you, sir.

PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Hey, T.J., how are you? Listen, Sarah Palin weighing in on the negotiations going on right here in Washington, D.C. Of course, the deadline August 2nd. Palin critical of the president. That's very understandable. She's always critical of this president.

But she also had tough words for Senator Mitch McConnell, the top Republican in the Senate, kind of going after him for proposing a short-term deal that would give the president the authority to raise the debt ceiling and of course avoid a government default.

Here's what she said in an interview last night was "We cannot default, but we cannot afford to retreat, either. Now is not the time to retreat. It's the time to reload, and we reload with reality." So there she goes with some tough talk. Palin also talked about whether she will or won't run for president. Her timetable, she's considering she says next month or September maybe she'll have a decision. T.J.?

HOLMES: All right, I know you keep an eye on numbers, a lot of the debate that has to do with taxes. Where are Americans right now? STEINHAUSER: Yes, that's one of the big sticking points, right. Republicans are saying huh-uh, no way to taxes, not even on the wealthy. Check this out. A Quinnipiac University survey national poll came out this morning. That's the question they asked, what do you think, should it be part of the deal or not? And 25 percent say spending cuts only, but 67 percent, two thirds of the people who were questioned here said that taxes on the wealthy and corporations could also be included in any kind of agreement to race the debt ceiling.

T.J., Republicans and Democrats in that poll definitely had a difference of opinion. Back to you.