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Murdoch Scandal Escalates; The Shocking Murder of Leiby Kletzky; Clock Ticks Toward Default; GE CEO Immelt Weighs in on Debt Ceiling Talks; FBI Looking Into News Corp; Interview With Rep. Bruce Braley; Alleged Rapist Can Watch Child Porn; White House Press Corp Versus Jay Carney; Congress Steps Up to the Plate
Aired July 14, 2011 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: But right now, watch this:
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES (voice-over): A boy is brutally murdered walking home from day camp alone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is like a horror story in your own backyard.
HOLMES: Raising America's credit limit.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: High drama and high stakes.
HOLMES: The talks are tense.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The pressure is building. Tempers are flaring.
HOLMES: The clock is ticking.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Tensions are soaring.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Toe to toe with the president.
HOLMES: And lawmakers are moments away from meeting again. We're all over it.
This man is accused of luring young boys to his home, raping them and videotaping the attacks. Now he's allowed to watch those videos behind bars.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This makes me grind my teeth.
HOLMES: All because of a shocking loophole. Sunny Hostin is on the case.
Plus, anger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Name the day.
HOLMES: Accusations UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Illegal activity.
HOLMES: And outrage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Order! Order!
HOLMES: The investigation into Rupert Murdoch's empire could soon reach the U.S.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: And hello to you all, top of the hour here now in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm T.J. Holmes. Brooke Baldwin is off today.
And just moments from right now, we're expecting congressional leaders to walk into that place, the White House, and once again face President Obama and each other and negotiate over the nation's debt ceiling.
Meanwhile, the treasury secretary, Timothy Geithner, made a rare appearance a little bit ago, warning Congress to act now or this economy will face severe consequences.
We are live outside the White House just minutes from now.
But first we are getting still more disturbing details of that 8- year-old boy's gruesome murder. You're seeing his picture there, Leiby Kletzky -- or Kleztky -- excuse me. The 35-year-old, the suspect in this case, 35-year-old Levi Aron made his first court appearance this afternoon. You're seeing him there.
He is charged with first-degree kidnapping and first-degree murder.
Aron allegedly suffocated Leiby Kleztky. And we're learning that the boy may have fought back for his life. The boy's neighbors and friends devastated by this crime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is like a horror story in your own backyard. It's crazy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's all about submission to the will of God. We accept what comes, but there is a strong, palpable sense of anger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Well, Dov Hikind is an assemblyman from New York. He helped with the massive search for the little boy after he disappeared on Monday.
Sir, we appreciate you giving us some time. And given all that the community poured into trying to find this young man, what has the reaction been not just to his death, but some of these gruesome details about what happened to this young man? DOV HIKIND, NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLYMAN: Well, the reaction in my community and way beyond my community has been total shock.
People are walking around like zombies. They can't believe what happened to this very innocent 8-year-old coming home from day camp, like millions of children, coming home from day camp. Hoping to see their parents. You know, he walks to meet his mother two blocks away from the day camp, never meets his mother, and ends up meeting this individual who ends up murdering him in the most gruesome way.
People just can't believe it. And I think there's a recognition by everything that this 8-year-old boy, this is not a story just about Brooklyn, New York, Borough Park, New York. This is a story about every single family in America and throughout the world. It's about protecting our children, doing whatever we can to make sure that they safe, not scaring them, not being overly protective, but it is a message for everybody.
HOLMES: Sir, would there ever -- this is an issue that parents deal with all the time. At what point, at what age do you let them out a little bit on their own and walk to school on their own and walk back home on their own?
And would a parent -- besides that fear all parents will have, was there anything about the neighborhood that would have given a parent pause, and say, you know what, I don't want my child walking alone in this neighborhood? Or was this a neighborhood you would have felt comfortable and completely safe with your children walking down the streets?
HIKIND: This is a neighborhood that is one of the safest neighborhoods in New York. There would be no reason to think twice.
Crime is almost nonexistent in our neighborhood. Violent crime, forget it. So there would have been no reason to -- give the child a little bit of independence. In fact, that's what he wanted. He was waiting for the moment to be a little bit free, to meet his mother two or three blocks away.
There were people in the street. This was 5:00 in the afternoon on a sunny, warm summer day. People were out in the streets everywhere. So, there would have been no reason to be afraid. And, look, we don't want to scare people. We don't want to tell people don't let your kid out of house. Don't let him -- don't let your child walk more than 25 feet from the house.
I think every parent has to make those kinds of decisions, but in this particular case, there is no crime. There would have been no reason to be concerned with regard to this child walking a block or two. Needless to say, the mother, you know, who now has lost her child, the child would come home with the bus every single day, every single morning, go with the bus, come with the bus, now she obviously feels like, God, what did I do, letting my child walk even those two or three blocks?
HOLMES: Yes, it's a tough part of this story. You can't imagine what she's going through because of that decision. Like you said, he just wanted a little independence.
And hopefully this won't change -- or maybe it should. I will let you go on this, sir. Do you think it will change people's attitudes in the neighborhood? Maybe they will start to look at some people in the neighborhood they don't know as well with a little more suspicion? Maybe people won't be letting their kids out and the neighborhoods won't look the same? Are you concerned that the neighborhood will change in some way and not be that community it used to be?
HIKIND: Well, I think it will remain the beautiful and wonderful community that it is, but there's no question that this is a wakeup call for every single family.
This is the only thing people are talking about. This is the only thing people are living. People are not sleeping. I can tell you that my own daughter, who has five kids, her daughter who is 8 years old came home yesterday and asked her, mother, mommy, I -- I heard these different stories about this child.
You know, how do parents deal with their own children in terms of explaining what happened here? Children know everything. They're smart. And I think one of the things that's definitely happen in my neighborhood and it should happen everywhere to protect our children, and kids have to be street-smart. And we have to teach them, we have to talk to them. When you meet someone -- Borough Park is a largely Hasidic orthodox neighborhood.
HOLMES: Yes.
HIKIND: Most people have beards and side curls. Often kids will trust someone who looks like their father or like their friends or like their teachers, and say, oh, this guy must be safe. He looks like my father.
HOLMES: Yes.
HIKIND: I think that is not the case, never should have been the case. You have got to be very, very careful. You have got to teach your kids. You have got to talk to your kids.
HOLMES: Boy, it's a good -- I mean, it's an unfortunate, unfortunate reminder here, but still for a lot of parents a reminder. Like you said, make kids a little street-smart sometimes and teach them best you can.
And Dov Hikind, assemblyman from New York, sir, we appreciate you taking the time out. Know it's a tough time your community is going through right now, but we appreciate your time.
HIKIND: Thank you very much.
(NEWS BREAK)
HOLMES: All right, we're 11 minutes past the hour now, another live look at the White House, where, at any moment, supposed to be just within the next four minutes, President Obama expected to host once against the congressional leaders for another round of negotiations over whether to extend America's credit line.
But, suddenly, the White House is now saying the focus may need to shift in these negotiations. We are all over this story. Stay with me -- next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: All right, those crucial debt talks are about to restart at any moment at the White House -- 4:15 Eastern is what we were told they were scheduled to start.
The warnings now becoming increasingly dire and the rhetoric getting much more heated. Listen now to Senate Democrat Dick Durbin. This was just a short time ago before leaving Capitol Hill to attend those White House talks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D-IL), MAJORITY WHIP: My message to the Republicans who are stopping us from extending the debt ceiling is, if they bring this economy down, they have broken it and they own it. America can't stand for that kind of political strategy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Now, that's some of the strongest language we have heard yet, at least publicly, Senator Dick Durbin essentially accusing Republicans of being willing to bring down the economy for political gain.
Let's turn to our chief White House correspondent, Jessica Yellin.
Jessica, always good to see you. Is that the tone they're walking in there with now? Is that the atmosphere of these talks?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, T.J., it's no secret that yesterday's meeting broke up with tension and no small amount of acrimony.
So now, from the White House's point of view at least, the question is, they walk into this meeting with a big uncertainty about whether Republicans will put on the table a willingness to talk about revenue, which for the president has been an absolute must, if they're going to cut a deal, Republicans must put revenue on the table; or will Republicans give up this demand that for every dollar the debt ceiling must be raised, one dollar in spending must be cut.
For the White House and the Democrats, that's the big question going in today. And you know, Republicans have expressed equal frustration with a lack of progress in these talks. So there's a big question mark -- will there be any progress today?
HOLMES: OK, Jessica, it caught my attention when I saw the headline a little earlier that said there was a Friday deadline. And I thought, wait? What? A deadline for what now? I had to read some of the fine print.
YELLIN: A deadline for progress, agreement. You know, they've been talking, but they're not sort of locking in one decision and then moving on to the next . So the White House has said, they have to assess by Friday if there's movement, and if not, then they have to move on to other options.
So what else is out there? The White House hasn't spelled it out, but essentially there are other ways to raise the debt ceiling without this exact process going on. And one of the concepts floating out there is these discussions that are going on between the two leaders in the Senate, not the House, but the two leaders in the Senate, the Democrat and Republican leader that would raise the debt ceiling with some combination of the White House, the Treasury making a request, some kind of deficit commission, some kind of cuts. It's complicated, maybe it could be done.
HOLMES: All right, one other thing, the president reportedly from this meeting last night said, hey, if you take me to a point then I'll just go to the American people and make my sell and my pitch.
What is the president hinting at? Do we have any more details about exactly what he has in mind?
YELLIN: Well, what I think this is referring to is he's done a series of interviews with affiliates, local television channels around the country. And we don't have the interview transcripts yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see him saying in those interviews why it's so important that the debt ceiling be raised and maybe what we've heard him say to date, that playing politics with this issue is not good for the American people, that it's maybe Washington at its worst, essentially making the case that all leaders should step up to the plate and be leaders and not play for their own political gain on this issue. He's drawn a line in the sand on this.
HOLMES: Jessica Yellin for us at the White House. Jessica, we appreciate you, as always.
And something we haven't yet seen are big business leaders weighing in on the potential harm to them and the economy as a whole should the government default on its debts.
Today, we're hearing from Jeffrey Immelt, the CEO of General Electric. He sat down with CNN's Poppy Harlow.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFFREY IMMELT, CEO, GENERAL ELECTRIC: I want to ask people, don't think about GE so much. Think about a small businessperson who really do create a lot of jobs in this country. They're petrified right now.
POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: What are they scared of?
IMMELT: What happens if the government doesn't roll over its debt? Why would you invest into that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Poppy joins me now from New York.
Poppy, am I hearing him right? He's like, hey, the big companies like mine, we're going to be all right, we're going to make it through, but the little guys are the ones who have it bad right now.
HARLOW: You're hearing him exactly right. And this is interesting, because we haven't sort of heard big business leaders weigh in on this. The reason it's particularly interesting to hear from Jeff Immelt is because, T.J., not only is he the head of GE, he's also the president's right-hand man on jobs. He sits at the head of the presidents' Jobs Council.
What he's saying is, look, companies like GE that have hundreds of billions of dollars of cash and are global companies, GE has 60 percent of its workforce outside the U.S., they can get through this. They can get through things that may cost them a bit more money in the short term.
Small businesses, what he's saying, cannot get through this. And let's not forget, these small businesses employ more than half of Americans.
You just heard Jessica Yellin at the White House saying that the president is making really a plea to the American people now, many of them small business owners or employees, talking to them directly about what not reaching an agreement on this debt ceiling would mean to them.
He's saying this isn't so much as big an issue for big business, this is an issue for you, the small business owner out there. How are you going to have faith in the U.S. government, the full faith and credit of the U.S. government, when it can't pay its debt -- T.J.
HOLMES: And, Poppy, some would say that the business leaders, like him and like others, maybe some small business owners, if they came out, maybe they could make a better pitch to the American people why this needs to get done. They could put a face on it, if you will. But some of the largest corporations, the argument goes, well, they've got business before Congress, you don't want to upset the folks you're up there lobbying on Capitol Hill, do you?
HARLOW: That's a great question. I tried. You know, I said, look, Bernanke, the Fed chairman, said yesterday it would be catastrophic if we don't see an agreement reached, what do you think? What's your plan? And he said to me twice when I pushed him on it, I'm going to leave that to lawmakers.
And I want to play you a bit of sound from our interview on what he said when it comes to getting legislators to come to some sort of compromise, some sort of agreement on this. Here's his answer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IMMELT: Legislators legislate. This is what -- they need to come together and -- this is what they're supposed to do, is to legislate, and I just think we need that kind of leadership right now.
HARLOW: What we pay them to do, and we're in a jobs crisis. So if we don't see a deal by August 2nd, what happens to jobs?
IMMELT: Again, I just think -- I'm going to stay focused on GE. We're going to keep powering through. But I do think that at the end of the day these people have to get a deal done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: At the end of the day, these people have to get a deal done. T.J., what he said it boils down to confidence and the lack of confidence that we have right now as small business, middle-sized business owners in America, the lack of confidence they have right now each and every day that a deal doesn't get done in Washington, that confidence falls. And that's a fact no matter who you ask on Main Street or who you ask in the corner office.
So again, a man who not only leads one of the biggest businesses in the world, also now the right-hand man to the president on jobs.
Interesting to see if as we a approach that August 2cd deadline if we see more business leaders and push the administration and Congress one way on this.
HOLMES: All right, Poppy Harlow for us today. Good stuff today, Poppy. Thanks so much.
(VIDEO CLIP, BRITISH PARLIAMENT) HOLMES: Well, will this be the kind of reception that Rupert Murdoch will get next week? It's now been confirmed the media mogul will sit in the hot seat, testifying about the phone-hacking scandal that's threatening his empire.
But here in the U.S., some lawmakers are calling for Washington to investigate Rupert Murdoch's empire, News Corp, and whether Americans were targeted. Congressman Bruce Brawley is one of them. He'll tell me about it when we come back, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Well, a law enforcement source telling CNN the FBI is reviewing questions raised over whether employees of Rupert Murdoch's News Corp tried to hack into 9/11 victims' phone records. This follows allegations in Britain that reporters and managers with Murdoch's News Corporation bribed police and hacked the phones of crime victims in the U.K.
Now another U.S. lawmaker is calling for a House investigation into Murdoch. That's Bruce Braley, he is here with me, joins me from Capitol Hill.
Sir, I appreciate you being here.
Can you tell me, though, at this point, do you have any evidence or information to lead you to believe that in fact phones of American citizens were hacked?
REP. BRUCE BRALEY (D), IOWA: Well, T.J., I recently visited Ground Zero, where the Twin Towers fell, and we have enough information based upon the reports coming out that if there's a possibility that the phone records or voicemail records of 9/11 victims were hacked, that is definitely a serious violation of federal law and something that we as an oversight body have to investigate, which is why I called upon the chairman of the House Oversight Committee, Darrell Issa, to begin such investigations.
HOLMES: And, sir, you mention 9/11 victims. It has been reported that some of the possible victims of the hacking, they were going after 9/11 victims, but folks who were British citizens. Does that make a difference to you one way or another? Even if the folks were 9/11 victims, but they were British citizens versus American citizens, you still want to find out?
BRALEY: Well, we do, because we don't know where those intercepts occurred. We don't know if they occurred on U.S. soil. We don't know what the full range of the involvement is, and whether any of that effort took place in the United States.
Plus, there are also federal criminal penalties for attempting to engage in corrupt activities on behalf of U.S. businesses with official representatives from other countries.
So because of the uncertainly nature of these allegations, I am certainly not rushing to judgment against News Corp, but I think it's important for the American people to get to the bottom of this and find out what was really going on.
HOLMES: And, Congressman, we hear now the FBI is going to be looking into it. We talk about a possible investigation by the attorney general and maybe a couple committees up there on the Hill. I guess, who should? What's the difference between all of these investigations? Should they all be looking into it? I guess we're trying to differentiate one from investigation from another.
BRALEY: It often depends upon what exactly is under investigation.
If it involves domestic spying, which is part of the charges that could be involved, certainly the FBI investigation requested by my friend Peter King, Republican from New York and chair of the Homeland Security Committee, that is an appropriate use of federal resources.
But there are other implications in terms of what was going on. That's why the House Oversight Committee that I serve on has very broad jurisdiction to look into the possibility of wrongdoing that could violate federal law. And that's why I've requested that we take action independently of what the FBI may be undertaking.
HOLMES: And, sir, maybe an important question here, is that this News Corp, it spans the globe, certainly crosses the pond here. Are you just trying to look into the British operations of this huge empire, or would you like to look into some of the U.S. holdings of Rupert Murdoch's as well, some of the media outlets here based in the U.S. to see if they maybe tried to do some of these same practices they're accused of doing over in the U.K.?
BRALEY: My number one priority is to protect U.S. citizens from violations of the law by anyone, especially a business headquartered here in the United States. And that should be the focal point of this investigation, not to engage in some political witch hunt, but get to the bottom, find the facts, allow for due process, but get to the truth of what happened and whether it is rights and privacy of U.S. citizens were violated.
HOLMES: But again, on that question, are you just focusing on what it appears that British journalists were doing, or are you looking -- he does, he has U.S. holdings, "The Journal," the FOX News, and whatever else it may be. And again, those accusations are not there at this point.
But are you wanting to expand and at least look into some of those U.S. holdings?
BRALEY: Well, as you know from your network, T.J. --
HOLMES: Yes, sir.
BRALEY: -- this is a worldwide media marketplace. That's what makes this challenge so significant. Because what may be happening in Great Britain that's part of an ongoing news operation, or with employees employed by this group, certainly can have implications here, and that's why I have to put the pieces together.
HOLMES: All right, Congressman Braley, we appreciate you taking the time out with us today, I'm sure this won't be the last time we end up chatting about this topic, sir. Thank you so much.
BRALEY: Look forward to it. Thanks, T.J.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have been practicing what I called reverse Robin Hood for eight years. Nobody remembers that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we're going to have to extend the space shuttle for an extra day to retrieve that thought process, it got so far out there in orbit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Play nice.
We may not be able to see the tensions inside the White House negotiations, but they sure are on display in Congress.
Up next, some political analysts are wondering who is leading the Republicans against President Obama. Is it Leader Cantor or the House Speaker Boehner?
We'll break it down. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: All right, time now for a CNN Equals Politics update. And we bring in Gloria Borger. She has the latest from the political ticker. Gloria, good to see you, as always. Democrats and Republicans spending an awful lot of time together. That sounds like a good thing, but listen to some of the stuff they're saying about each other. Listen to Chuck Schumer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: It's time for leader Cantor to make some concessions. He's the only one at the table who hasn't yet. Speaker Boehner entertained the grand bargain President Obama offered. Even Leader McConnell has put a proposal on the table that at least recognizes the urgent need to avoid default. Leader Cantor has yet to make a constructive contribution to these discussions. More than anything else, he is holding up an agreement at this point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Wow! Gloria, pretty strong words essentially pointing at Leader Cantor and saying you are the problem. But doesn't leader Cantor represent a lot of the Republicans in the House?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think - if you talk to senior administration officials who are in that room, they will tell you they believe that they are witnessing a fight for the control of the Republican party before their very eyes. You know, at the start of these talks, T.J., it was the president of the United States trying to strike a deal with Speaker Boehner. Well, that didn't work out.
Now I'm told that the verbal one at the meetings from the Republican side is in fact Eric Cantor. That it's not speaker Boehner and it's not Senator Mitch McConnell, the leader of the Republicans in the Senate. He's been kind of quiet. He's trying to work a way out of this quietly. And when you talk to Senate Republicans, they say look. We would vote for closing some of these tax loopholes, but the House Republicans won't do it. And that's where Eric Cantor is coming from.
So, I think you have a sense, at least from the Democrats in that room, that the Republicans are having kind of a hard time figuring out where their votes are and what they can get.
HOLMES: Are they also having a hard time figuring out who's in charge? We saw a little moment in their press conference where they almost hugged each other, saying -- BORGER: They did.
HOLMES: You see that? It was close to a hug, wasn't it?
BORGER: You know what? When they hug each other in public, you know they're not hugging each other in private. Right? They doth protest too much. Obviously, there has been some friction between Boehner and Cantor.
But essentially what I think we are seeing is leaders auditioning publicly. In talking to one senior administration official, he put this way. He said, you know, we're watching the tail wagging the dog. And this is what happens when you have a large group of freshmen Republicans who were elected essentially by the Tea Party, which is an outside Washington movement. And now you have leaders inside Washington trying to herd them all together.
So, it's a little more difficult when they're actually not your guys to begin with. You know, the movement started outside of Washington. So, they're all trying to figure out right now how to deal with each other on the Republican side.
HOLMES: All right. We are told - do you have any indication - we're told the meeting was supposed to start about 20 minutes ago. Is it underway? Have you heard?
BORGER: Haven't heard, but I do know they're trying to figure out a way to get some so-called revenue neutral deals in there, you know. In exchange for closing of tax loopholes, for say, reducing the payroll tax cut. That's top of the agenda today. So, we'll see what happens.
HOLMES: All right. Gloria Borger, good to see you, as always. Thank you so much.
BORGER: You too.
HOLMES: Also coming up, the Fed chairman. Ben Bernanke. He's testifying again before Congress, and it's having an effect on the markets. So, what is his warning today? Stay with me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Well, the stock market was optimistic after Fed chief Ben Bernanke testified before Congress yesterday.
Let me bring in Alison Kosik now. Alison, that was yesterday. Today a bit of a different story.
ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: What a difference a day makes.
HOLMES: What happened? Yes. How big of a difference are we talking about here?
KOSIK: A big difference. We saw the market end higher on what he said, and we saw the market lowered today based on what he said. So, yes, Fed chief Ben Bernanke was back on Capitol Hill for day 2. He sounded a more cautious tone about the possibility of more monetary stimulus if the economy slows even more. He said today that the Fed is not prepared at this point to do anything, so traders I talked to called it backpedaling from what appeared to be a more aggressive stance that he took yesterday when he opened the door to the possibility. We saw stocks pop on that news yesterday. But the reality check put stocks in the negative column today. T.J.?
HOLMES: All right. Let's turn to Minnesota. We know some 20,000 employees, government employees in Minnesota have been affected by this government shutdown. Services have been cut to places that take care of the homeless and children.
But the thing that might actually get a deal done is when the shutdown impacts people who like their beer. Explain.
KOSIK: Beer! Yes. Go figure. If you want a cold one in Minnesota, T.J. you'll have fewer choices. What's happening is 39 brands of Miller-Coors beer are literally being pulled from every store, every restaurant, every bar in Minnesota. I'm talking about Coors, Miller, Fosters, Blue Moon, Milwaukee's Best. It's all because of the Minnesota shutdown. The government's shut down there.
Miller Coors didn't wind up get its brand licensing renewed in time before the state government shut down on July 1. What had to happen is the label on each brand of beer has to be registered with the state. The company actually put the application in, but the government shut down the next day.
And you know, we're chuckling about this, this is kind of funny, right? But it's a real big deal for small businesses in Minnesota. It's serious business. Miller-Coors supplies almost 40 percent of the beer sold in Minnesota. But you know what? It's holding back the beer, certainly ends the budget stalemate, I'll go for that.
HOLMES: You know, and since this news has come out, we got the news from the governor that he has said he will accept some of the compromises from the Republicans. He'll accept their deal with some concessions, so many there is some movement there.
Alison, good to talk to you as always.
KOSIK: Maybe it was over a beer summit.
HOLMES: Maybe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARC GILBERT, DEFENDANT IN CHILD RAPE CASE: I'm asking for both the copies of the hard drives, as well as the copies of the videotapes to be released.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: OK, you all aren't going to believe what he was requesting there. The man was acting as his own attorney. He's accused of raping young boys and videotaping the attacks. And now he's watches those videos behind bars because of a legal loophole.
Sunny Hostin will unleash on this case after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: OK. You're not going to believe this one. An inmate in Washington State can watch child porn while in jail. Sunny Hostin is on this case for us.
Sunny, this is one of those stories that everybody is just crashing their head. Now, let me set this up for the viewer a little bit. The guy is Weldon Mark Gilbert. He's in jail in Washington State accused of raping young boys.
Let's listen to him, and then I'll bring you in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARC GILBERT, DEFENDANT IN CHILD RAPE CASE: I'm asking for both the copies of the hard drives, as well as the copies of the videotapes to be released.
MARK LINDQUIST, PIERCE COUNTY PROSECUTOR: We don't like it. So the fix here is to change the law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: OK. Sunny, follow the law. What is it in the law that allows an accused child rapist to be in jail watching the videos he allegedly made of those actual attacks?
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, well, this is in Washington State. There's a Washington Supreme Court decision that says that a defense team can look at all the evidence that is going to be used against that team.
Typically it's a defense attorney, right? That looks at the evidence in preparation for a trial, in preparation to defend his or her client. In this particular case, this defendant decides to represent himself.
That is why we are in the position that we are in defending himself. He's allowed to look at the evidence against him and as you just mentioned the evidence against him is the very porn that he is now looking to see.
HOLMES: Sunny, that's not right.
HOSTIN: I know. It doesn't make feel good, right. I mean, certainly it's not something, a fact situation that I think the law contemplated. I think it's the right thing that prosecutors have to give over the evidence that will be used against someone, but this particular fact situation is something that I don't think was considered, T.J. HOLMES: All right, let's listen to how law enforcement feels about this then I'll ask you about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF PAUL PASTOR, PIERCE COUNTY, WASHINGTON: Make no mistake. I don't like it, but it is not my choice whether to do it or not to do it. There's no question that I don't like it. There's no question that this makes me grind my teeth.
CRAIG ADAMS, SHERIFF'S LEGAL ADVISER: We want to facilitate this even though we don't like it and don't think it's a good idea.
QUESTION: So he can just sit there and watch pornography all day.
ADAMS: Yes, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: What do you do here? Do you try to change the law? It sounds like they understand that the law needs to be there, but this specific case, do you change the law in some ways for one guy in case this comes up again? What do you do?
HOSTIN: You know, I don't think you change the law, T.J., because again this is a good thing. It's a good thing that a prosecutor has to turn over the evidence that a prosecutor will use against someone. I think what is being done is appropriate in the sense there are parameters that have been put in place.
I don't want our viewers to think that he's sitting in his jail cell looking at child pornography. That's not what is happening. He's in a viewing room in full sight of jail house officials.
He has a defense investigator in the room with him, and he's not watching it all day every day so there are time constraints on it as well. That is in some small measure I think a way of controlling this situation, but changing the law I'm not sure will happen here.
HOLMES: It might just be one of those cases that comes along. We might never see this again, but certainly just rubs some people the wrong way. Sunny Hostin, good to see you as always. Thank you so much.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're leaving this area. There's gunfire all around us, so we are rushing out of this area.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: CNN's Ben Wedeman and his crew caught in the middle in Libya. You will see this play out, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: All right. This is dramatic new video out of Libya, where our own crew, including Ben Wedeman, got caught in the middle of crossfire between Gadhafi loyalists and rebels. Take a look and listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wait, wait, wait. Wait!
WEDEMAN: We're leaving this area. There's gunfire all around us. We are rushing out of this area.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: We can report to you that everyone made it out safely. Again close to the top of the hour almost time for "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer. He joins me now with a preview.
Wolf, hello to you.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": Yes, we're going to check in with Ben Wedeman live in Libya to see what's going on, on this day after that dramatic video we shot. His camera crew Mary Rogers, our photographer there that was a really, really scary, close call, T.J., as you know.
We're going to have all of that news, what's happening with Rupert Murdoch's empire, the FBI as you know, now launching a formal investigation, an initial probe at least into any of the allegations that some of the 9/11 victims and their families here in the United States had their phones hacked, if you will, their voicemail.
We also have a special interview with the chairman of is the House Budget Committee, Paul Ryan, a Republican of Wisconsin on what's going on with the debt ceiling negotiations.
And even as we speak, the negotiations are under way over at the White House, another day of talks, the stakes, T.J., enormous right now. We're all over that story as well.
HOLMES: All right, Wolf Blitzer, we will see you here in about seven minutes. Wolf Blitzer for us, thanks so much.
We were showing you video a little earlier of a guy who was in a bit of a situation. Went to work today and got stuck a few stories up. He was a window washer who had to be rescued. He was dangling. He had a harness. You could see he was caught, but still stuck.
Fire fighters were trying to reach him from the roof of that building, but then they ended up having to take a ladder up and I'm told this is video of him actually making it down.
So he probably wasn't relieved until feet got on solid ground, which happened it looks like right about there, but yes, a window washer got stuck there. This was in Seattle, but he made it down. Looks like he's doing all right walking away, but we'll see if he shows up for work tomorrow.
The White House, press secretary and reporters in a bit of a tiff, find out what Jay Carney asked them not to do.
Plus, just a couple hours from now, lawmakers will square off in the annual baseball game. Joe Johns has your starting lineups in the "Political Pop." He is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Let's say hello to Joe Johns right now. Here's here with the "Political Pop." Joe, this will get some people's attention. The White House upset with reporters for asking questions.
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: I know. It's like men bites dog, right? This story is really about access to the president during the time of a big story, which would be the debt limit negotiations.
TV cameras were not allowed in to take pictures at the top of the debt limit meetings yesterday. Still cameras allowed in, but not TV cameras. Now the press secretary said, well, it's because of the circus atmosphere created by reporters asking questions. Listen to what Jay Carney said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I would remind you that the last time we had TV cameras in the meeting it was less than three hours after the president had given the press conference.
And people shouted questions at him, including people who had just had questions in the press conference. So, you know, the main purpose is not to create a circus, but to negotiate. So today we're doing stills only.
QUESTION: Are you telling us we can't ask questions -- ?
CARNEY: I'm not saying that's correct chip. You had questions that day, and he took 70 minutes of questions the day before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: All right. So -- which led us to ask, OK, just how bad really was this media circus Jay Carney was talking about? Here's the videotape of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: This is the same shot you had yesterday, except we're wearing ties today. All right, thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: OK. Media circus or not, you tell me. You don't have to answer that, T.J. I don't want an opinion.
HOLMES: The humanity. My goodness, you can't get those people under control.
JOHNS: I know.
HOLMES: They practically rushed the congressmen and women.
JOHNS: Poor President Obama, right.
HOLMES: Stop it. Stop it.
JOHNS: The White House told me today it's not the president who says the cameras can't come in, but no idea whose idea it was to exclude the cameras. By the way, the president is not the first president to get these kinds of questions. It's a time-honored tradition. It happens on Capitol Hill.
HOLMES: It happens. If he just answered an hour and a half of questions, as he's walking away, another question will be yelled at the president. That's just how it goes. All right, I got one minute here left. Tell me about this. Can I call this another partisan event in D.C., this baseball game?
JOHNS: It's a bipartisan event.
HOLMES: Bipartisan event.
JOHNS: Yes, it's great. It goes all the way back to 1909. This is the Annual Congressional Baseball Game. This I think is video from maybe a couple years ago. They dress up in whatever uniform they want.
So if you're the congressman from Cincinnati, maybe you wear a Cincinnati Reds uniform or whatever. So it's a little bit of this, a little bit of that, Democrats versus Republicans for charity.
It's at Nationals Park in D.C., which of course is our professional baseball park here, and the money goes to a good cause, Washington Literary Council and Boys and Girls Club. Cool game, who said the Ds and Rs can't get together sometimes even if they can't get an agreement on increasing the debt limit.
HOLMES: And tell me where they play this thing? It looked like they were at a major stadium there.
JOHNS: Right. Believe it or in the -- I mean, how much would you like to do that, right? Nationals Park. This is where the nationals, the Washington Nationals Baseball game actually plays. People pay. Last year, they had something like 7,000 people or so. So it's a good thing.
HOLMES: Good stuff. Joe, good to see you as always, buddy. Thank you so much and let me hand this thing over right now to "THE SITUATION ROOM" and Wolf Blitzer.
