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Debt Ceiling Negotiations Stall; Concerns About Casey Anthony Prior to Jail Release; Casey Defense Attorney Hesitates on Joy Behar Question; Multijurisdictional Criminal, Civil Suits Could be Filed Against News Corp, Rupert Murdoch; Expected Carmageddon in L.A. Doesn't Happen; Media Mogul Runs Ads Saying, "We are Sorry"; Los Angeles Closes One of Busiest Freeways; Brooklyn Boy Murdered After Seeking Help from Stranger

Aired July 16, 2011 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Right now on CNN, well, the story that isn't, with scenes like these on L.A. freeways, what happened to the so- called Carmageddon, where everyone including us thought the closing of the interstate, one interstate would lead to chaos. We're going to find out, we're live.

Plus this. That outbreak probably won't help her case. The woman accused of attacking her husband caught on tape attacking the judge sentencing her and her husband is right there watching. You're going to see how the whole thing played out.

And this for you. One more bit of news in the unfolding saga that is Casey Anthony. As people turn out at a memorial for her murdered daughter, she prepares to get out of jail in just a few hours. We're live in Orlando for you tonight.

Plus, the pictures, you have to see to believe, a giant Television tower goes up in flames and what happens next and people scrambling for their lives as it all played out on their TVs at home. You'll see it.

Plus, the president's debt talk deadline, a Friday has come and gone. He and Republicans still don't agree and Republicans can't even agree with each other. We'll tell you the big obstacles to the deal and how you could end up paying the price.

I'm Don Lemon at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta. Thank you so much for joining us, the news starts right now.

And we begin with this. We have been paying a lot of attention to the contentious debt negotiations going on this week in Washington, but the real fireworks has been across the pond, concerning a major U.S. media company specifically the one that owns FOX News, accused of despicable acts. And it's widening from the "News of the World" to the "Sunday Times" and now even the FBI is opening an investigation. The allegations, hacking the personal phones of public figures and the not so public from murder victims to dead war heroes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: And that is a firestorm, if you like, that is engulfing parts of the media, parts of the police and indeed, our political systems' ability to respond.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Shame on you! Shame on you! Shame on you!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The company's founder, powerful media baron and once untouchable until this, Rupert Murdoch forced to shut down the paper and do something he's not used to doing, apologize.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUPERT MURDOCH, FOUNDER, NEWS CORPORATION: I am the founder of the company and I was appalled when I found out what happened. I apologize. I have nothing more to say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, today, Murdoch apologized to the British public with advertisements in seven national newspapers, topped with the giant, "We are sorry." Murdoch's News Corp, the parent company of the FOX News Channel, also owns 20th Century FOX movie studios, the Ethics Network, the "New York Post," "The Wall Street Journal," Harpercollins Publishing and probably your local FOX affiliate, among many others. The charges against the company are criminal and could have dire implications not only for Murdoch and the people under him, but for the British prime minister himself.

David Cameron's former communications director Andy Coulson is also a former editor for "News of the World." The Murdoch paper at the center of this scandal. Coulson has been arrested for his alleged role in all of this. So the question is, what did his former boss David Cameron know and when did he know it?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAMERON: Let me say once more, if I was lied to, if the police were lied to, if the select committee was lied to, it would be a matter of deep regret and a matter for criminal prosecution.

SPEAKER: Order! Anybody might think some orchestrated noise is taking place. Order! Order! The House will come to order. And these order - and these exchanges will continue in an orderly way. Mr. Ed Miliband.

ED MILIBAND, LABOUR PARTY LEADER: Mr. Speaker, the prime minister has just made a very important admission, he has admitted that his chief of staff was given information before the general election that Andy Coulson had hired a man, jailed for seven years for a criminal conspiracy who made payments to the police on behalf of the "News of the World." This evidence casts serious doubt on Mr. Coulson's assurances that the phone hacking over which he resigned was an isolated example of illegal activity. CAMERON: Do you know what, Mr. Speaker? I think the public and the victims of this appalling scandal want us to rise above this and deal with the problems that this country faces.

SPEAKER: Mr. Miliband.

MILIBAND: Mr. Speaker, he just doesn't get it. He just doesn't get it.

CAMERON: I'm afraid, Mr. Speaker, the person who is not getting it is now the leader of the opposition.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The unfolding firestorm was brought to light by Hollywood actor Hugh Grant, a Brit himself who secretly taped this former "News of the World" reporter talking about the unsavory practices that he says everyone in his organization condoned and even encouraged. We're going to Paul McMullan live in just a moment. But first, here's Hugh Grant on why he did it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUGH GRANT, ACTOR: It began with just a personal grievance because I was a victim of phone hacking. And then I had this extraordinary piece of luck where I ran into an ex-features editor from the "News of the World" itself, and this unlikely scenario where my car broke down, it's a long story, but anyway, he started boasting about hacking me, hacking everyone, all the dirty tricks of the "News of the World," the sinister relationship with the Metropolitan police, the relationship with the Prime Minister. And I thought it was all both fascinating and utterly repulsive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Paul McMullan is the bragger, Hugh Grant is speaking of and he joins us now by phone. So Paul, was this type of hacking business as usual, even expected at your paper and even at others?

PAUL MCMULLAN, FMR. "NEWS OF THE WORLD" JOURNALIST: Sorry, that was very unclear, was that question to me?

LEMON: Yes, was this condoned? Was hacking condoned or even encouraged to you and at other papers?

MCMULLAN: Yes, I mean -- I mean, the public has long since been hacking people like Hugh Grant up until about few weeks ago, they think that this guy earning five million pounds a picture actually taking Rupert Murdoch's money and then turning around to complain about Rupert Murdoch's employees, you know, investigating his private life, and there seems to be little bit of hypocrisy there. And, you know, there's money other examples. In fact, Murdoch's empire is so big, I, myself, I remember when...

LEMON: But my question to you, Mr. McMullan, if we can stick to this, because I know that you and Huge Grant... (CROSSTALK)

MCMULLAN: I was by Murdoch. Again, little sympathy for stars who take the money for a 20th Century FOX picture...

LEMON: Mr. McMullan, can you hear me?

(CROSSTALK)

MCMULLAN: ...analyzing their private life, it hasn't caused change. This week, markedly, but when Hugh Grant turned me over in the same way that I had...

LEMON: OK. Producers, hang on. Can we stop this, please? Yes, I would like him to be able to hear me, so we're going to bring him back after the break, because he's not answering my questions. Apparently, he can't hear me. That's Paul McMullan, he is a former "News of the World" reporter who has been saying over the last couple of days that that type of behavior hacking has been condoned and even encouraged at his newspaper and others. When he can hear me, we'll going to bring him back right after the break.

Let's move on now and go to our tease. A Kentucky woman is told to stop speaking in court and goes after the judge, it's all caught on camera, you're going to see how it all played out. And if you haven't heard of Southern California's one of the major highways is shut down today prompting fears of a Carmageddon. So, how's traffic, it looks pretty good to me.

We've got reporters covering just about every angle of this story in L.A. The Carmageddon. That wasn't. Too many of you have been asking about information online through social media. You can reach out to us on Twitter, on Facebook, on CNN.com/Don. Also on Foursquare. You can check out my book "Transparent" available in E-version right now. And when we come back, we'll going to have Paul McMullan back in the phone and had those questions for him. We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: OK, back now to our "News of the World" story. I want to get to Paul McMullan, he is a former reporter for the "News of the World." So Paul, listen, I want to ask you about this type of hacking because it's been said by some that its business as usual and even encourage at "News of the World" and other papers, did your higher ups and people around you know about these practices?

MCMULLAN: Yes. I mean, actually everybody knew, I mean it started from the time way back in the '90s when you could actually buy a scanner in a shop and sit outside a star's house and actually tape record their entire conversation, when that became illegal to buy a scanner, all you were left with was getting into the voicemail box of the celebrity or the politician or whoever was being targeted. I mean, everybody knew, I mean it was common place, it wasn't just doing it with kids in a schoolyard, it was just a very common trick, all you have to do was hit nine and put in the pin code. They didn't even change those pin codes from four zeros. So, the problem is, people got just such good results from early on. I mean, there's an example, (INAUDIBLE) someone on a fishing expedition hacked her phone and listened to three messages and the last one was (INAUDIBLE) saying, darling, we had such a good night last night. When you get that quality of information, instead of being a one up every now and then, it started to be done routinely and not just to the Hugh Grants and Nicole Kidman's of the world, but to our readers and worse than that, sadly, to you know, the mobile phone of the girl who was in fact murdered and died. And that was really where it came to a head because private detectors who did that deleted some of the messages. It looks like her phone come back to (INAUDIBLE) to her parents.

LEMON: OK. Yes. OK. So, listen. You talked about Millie Dollar (ph) and her family. This is what I want to know. Were people as high possibly as Rupert Murdoch complicit in any of this? Would Rupert Murdoch know about these sorts of practices? Would people under him have know about these sorts of practices?

MCMULLAN: Yes. People under him certainly -- I mean, when Rebekah Brooks who was his right hand woman in Britain, (INAUDIBLE) looking at the same book that we both had. And we were spending 4,000 pounds a week on private investigators doing these kind of practices and they just extraordinary, you know, if she was the department boss, she then moved up to be editor. I mean, how could you not notice the spending of over 100 grand a year on this kind of thing and not even ask what it's for. I mean, her position is ludicrous, and even worse than that, and for her to turn afternoon and initially, to turn around and say we don't know about it, it was a rogue reporter acting on his own. And now, five reporters have been arrested, I was taken into Scotland yard and threatened with being arrested three times. And they were still the same. We didn't know, it was just reporter acting on their own. And incredibly -- a general saying it wasn't me, it was the soldier.

LEMON: OK, Paul, for those of us who are on this side of the pond, right? As you say, we're learning that there's now an FBI investigation, also "The Wall Street Journal," the person who heads "The Wall Street Journal" and was a "News of the World" editor at one point and also a News Corporation executive as well, Les Hinton has had to resign. We're wondering about exposure here in the United States.

MCMULLAN: Yes, well, you see I actually was under the misunderstanding that it was legal in the states because they were sharing leads around as friends where Courteney Cox hacked into her new boyfriend's phone to listen to his ex-girlfriend's messages and everybody made a big joke about it and I thought, huh, but it must be legal in the states, but clearly it isn't. I have worked in America, but I certainly have never done it myself in America, can't speak for American journalists, but if your TV show is making a big joke about it, it's got to be pretty common practice in the states as well.

LEMON: Actually it's not and when it comes to journalism here, it is not common practice. At least I don't know about it. And people I work with don't do it. But these are serious allegations and we appreciate you joining us, Paul McMullan is a former reporter with "News of the World" and he said, everyone knew about those practices and it was even encouraged and expected. So, this story is going to keep going for a while again. Our thanks to Paul McMullan.

You know, we were all led to believe that the roads in Los Angeles would be some kind of gridlock hellscape right about now, cars going bumper to bumper. A sea of red taillights, drivers pounding their horns. All because of a 10-mile stretch, the 405, that's what they call it. The 405, one of the busiest freeways in the country shut down until Monday. But the warnings, well, they must have worked. Because the so-called Carmageddon really isn't at all, it's not that bad right now. And Paul Vercammen is driving from Long Beach, from the airport to the Burbank airport. And our Sandra Endo is live on the Ventura Freeway. And let's start with Paul. So, Paul, I see you driving there, be safe. But how is it going?

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN SENIOR PRODUCER: It's going really well, Don, just look around me, I mean, this is wide open freeway, see all the empty spaces? You just don't see that in L.A. In fact, we have made almost I would call it a 75-mile roundtrip and I would say this is probably the best I have ever seen traffic in L.A. In fact, you know, they talk about Carmageddon, this is breezy and light and fluid, it's almost like that boy George song, Karma Chameleon because this is a piece of cake.

LEMON: All right, Paul. Thank you, again. Keep your eyes on the road and be safe. We're going to go to Sandra Endo now, is it any worse where are? Things look pretty smooth actually.

SANDRA ENDO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, yes, Don, smooth sailing here on Ventura Boulevard, we have been trying to find people figuring out ways to get around town with the 405 closed. We have seen some people walking around, some people on their bikes, the city has been encouraging people to take mass transit. Buses are free for the affected area. Also more trains, they're free as well. But take a look at Ventura Boulevard, this is one of the major streets here in the San Fernando Valley, if there was a Carmageddon, if there was a car populous, you would see the traffic backup on this boulevard. But clearly, it's smooth sailing, a lot of people just minding their business, going about their day like it's any old day, and actually this is pretty light for an average Saturday. So, clearly, everyone took heed of the warning and stayed home or just not getting into their cars.

LEMON: Pretty light for a Saturday. I don't know if I have ever seen traffic that light on Ventura Boulevard. It's pretty light for anytime. Thank you. We appreciate it Sandra. And also, thanks again to Paul Vercammen.

When we come right back, trying to make sense out of a senseless murder that has rocked the Jewish community in Brooklyn, New York.

How do you give your child the independence to walk home alone without keeping him or her at a harm's way? I'll ask our human behavior expert, Dr. Wendy Walsh right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: It's so hard to listen to that, you can see, you just hear how distraught he is, the father speaking Yiddish, but you know, his sobs really need to translation. He grieves for his boy, Leiby Kletzky. That's an 8-year-old boy coffin that mourners are carrying there. And New York police arrested Levi Aaron for allegedly murdering the child when he asked for help after getting lost.

I want to go now to our resident human behavior expert, Dr. Wendy Walsh. He joins me now. Wendy, it is so hard to listen to that man, he's just grieving for his son. The boy was an Orthodox Jew and we believe the murder suspect is also an Orthodox Jew as well. But do you think that played a part in the boy asking for help because he felt comfortable, he's in the confines of his community, and the sheltered community pretty much at that?

DR. WENDY WALSH, HUMAN BEHAVIOR EXPERT: I think certainly there's this false sense of security in small towns, in small communities and communities of faith who are faith-based. But, you know, mental illness knows no religion. And in fact, many people with mental illnesses gravitate toward religious communities because of the nurturing supportive communities that they are. So, I think the important thing here is that kids have to be educated in a different way than we did it a long time ago. It's not about stranger danger, in fact the majority of strangers might be perfectly safe. And in fact, some people very close to us might be dangerous. It's about telling kids to maybe, to listen to their stomachs more, and worry about tricky people who are trying to trick them. It's a little different.

LEMON: Yes. I don't know at a certain age if you can really teach children and I think that comes with maturity. I think you just have to maybe watch your child. And maybe a better question Doctor is, what's a better age or a better time or maybe it's just maturity wise, when you can leave your child home alone or let them walk home, and it probably has to do with individuals rather than an age.

WALSH: I think it has to do with individual kids, their maturity level, their gender, and it has to do with communities. What communities? I mean, I walked to school along like half a mile. I went back there recently to visit, and I was like I couldn't believe I walked that far alone starting at Kindergarten. But it was a small place in Nova Scotia, Canada. So, depending on where you live. I also think kids should always start out with the body system, no matter their age. They need to walk with a group of kids where it's much more safer. And it has to be done gradually. I mean, these parents did everything they could. This is in no way blaming those amazing parents who tried to prepare them as best they could. But it's really information for other parents who are trying to make these decisions.

LEMON: Yes, it's a different day in time. I actually took a city bus, my smaller cousin and I across town to go to school. It's a different day and age now.

WALSH: Yes. LEMON: Let's go on now to another parent issue, something brought up by the respected journal of the American Medical Association. These two people, I want you to take a look at. A pediatric endocrinologist and a public health researchers say that kids who are morbidly obese should be put into foster care, and when did the point to stretch here that these are kids who are severely overweight we are talking about. The example to cite is a 12-year-old kid who was 400 pounds. Is this a good idea?

WALSH: Well, they are speaking from the place of their disciplines and I have great respect for medical doctors. I speak from the place of psychology, and I think an attachment injury, tearing a child away from their parents and somehow making the child blame themselves for their behavior because kids always blame themselves and then suffering in a sense of longing, can create a great attachment injury that can even lead to a certainly relationships problem as an adult but even personality disorders. So my, if you know, in a perfect world, if medicine and psychology could get together, it should be a family intervention.

LEMON: But aren't this kids, when they say morbidly obese, I mean, really...

WALSH: They're in danger of dying?

LEMON: They're in danger of dying.

WALSH: Yes.

LEMON: So, these parents are really, I hate to say it, killing their kids because they're not given the right nutritional information. Why shouldn't they be taken away?

WALSH: I guarantee also that if a child of that level of obesity in a house, there's got to be at least one obese parent. So, everybody needs an intervention, everybody needs help. But tearing kids away from families sometimes adds a greater injury. I wish we could do more interventions in families and keep them intact. That's the goal of my community.

LEMON: All right. Dr. Wendy, thank you very much. You know, a possible reason there's no deal on the debt talks might be because Republicans aren't on the same page themselves. I'm going to talk to CNN contributor Will Cain who's been following debates on the debates. Right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The sounds of gun fire on the streets of Damascus, Syria. And you can see armed men in civilian clothing, firing weapons. It's not clear if they are security forces, but the violence against anti- government protests show no sign of easing. Activists say, Syrian troops spadely shot a demonstrator today, one day after 21 civilians died in protests across that country.

A private meeting at the White House today between President Barack Obama and the Dalai Lama. There's a picture right there. The White House says, the president repeated his support for a direct dialogue between China and Tibet. He also praised the Tibetan spiritual leader for his commitment to nonviolence. U.S. support for the Dalai Lama has often anger Chinese government officials who considered Tibet to be a breakaway province.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: I want to get there, I want to do what I think is in the right -- the best interests of the country. But it takes two to tango and they're not there yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Republicans like House Speaker John Boehner had big differences with President Obama over raising the debt ceiling, but one reason there's no deal yet, as Republicans aren't 100 percent in agreement with each other. We asked CNN contributor Will Cain to join us and talk about it. He's plugged in to the internal debates on the political right and really on the political left and inside and outside of Washington. So, Will, I understand that you see several different factions dividing Republicans here, what do you see?

WILL CAIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, this is how I see it, Don. I see that you've got about three different groups on the republican side. First you've got the populace. These are the people that can read a poll and see if the American people wrongly, aren't that excited about raising the debt ceiling? This is like Michele Bachmann and Tim Pawlenty saying, I pray we don't raise the debt ceiling. This is just incompetent.

LEMON: OK.

CAIN: This is just incompetent. So a second group would be just as stubborn. That's Eric Cantor. They want to live up -- Cantor wants to live up to his 2010 promise to get big spending cuts. But he doesn't seem to understand that you can't govern from one branch of the government, just controlling the House. The third group would be the deal makers. These are Boehner and McConnell, the guys who really know how to make a deal. They are all really motivated by the desire to reduce the size of government. Some are just being smarter about it than others.

LEMON: OK. What's the sticking point here? It sounds like it's Eric Cantor?

CAIN: It's not just Eric Cantor. People are saying, what's the sticking point, why aren't Republicans taking the big grand bargain that Obama is asking for, the $4 trillion cut that has tax increase and supposedly cuts entitlements. But there's bigger issues than just what's going on on the Republican side. I think there's a trust issue. I think two months ago, when we averted a government shutdown and by -- getting $38 trillion -- billion in cuts that turn out to be nothing, Republicans can't do that again. They can't go back to their constituents with cuts that turn out to be bogus. So what does the president mean by -- (CROSSTALK)

LEMON: OK, well, Will, let's talk here. Let's talk here. We really don't know what the deal is, right, because they haven't even come close enough to let the cat out of the bag, so to speak?

CAIN: Right.

LEMON: Here's what I'm wondering, and I think a lot of people are wondering the same thing. Have Republicans, because of the extremes in the party, the Tea Party and what have you, have they really backed themselves into a corner, so much so that, no matter what the president proposes, no matter what he proposes, that they feel obligated to say no because the people at home, the Tea Parties, the extremes are going, why are you agreeing with President Obama. , they don't like him and they're never going to agree with him?

CAIN: No, I -- well, look, Don, I think there could be an element in the Republican Party that has some kind of reactionary position like that. Do I think that is the pane (ph) of the entire Republican Party? No. I don't think that's why guys like Mitch McConnell and John Boehner aren't able to come to a deal with Obama. I think the deal is they don't know exactly what he's proposing. As you just said, he gives lip service to entitlement cuts, Don, but we don't really know what that means. And because they were burned two months ago, it's really important that we find out.

LEMON: Yes, and I'm talking about the extremes in the party and also, as I said, the Tea Party as well.

CAIN: Yes.

LEMON: And it's because of that, because of that loud uproar that they sort of backed themselves into a corner, saying, you know what, we really can't agree with the president because we have to appeal to this element in the party.

But let's move on now because Democrats also face their own divisions. Nancy Pelosi has warned the president to leave Social Security and Medicare alone. But the president said again on Friday that entitlements are on the table. So what's going on here?

CAIN: That's what I'm getting at here, Don. You've got one of two things here. Either the president has his own faction that he's dealing with, which is Nancy Pelosi saying, no way, no how, on Social Security and Medicare, or the president isn't offering real cuts to entitlements behind those closed doors to Boehner and McConnell. One of those two things is happening.

Now, the fact that there's not a huge uprising on the left, just Pelosi making a statement a week ago that nobody listened to very extensively, suggests to me, this is why we're not getting a deal done. I don't know that there are real cuts to entitlements to be had. This is why, Don, also, we're going to fall back on a smaller deal.

LEMON: OK.

CAIN: And look, we will raise the debt ceiling.

LEMON: I was just going to ask you, deal or no deal? And you say yes, and it will be by the deadline, correct?

CAIN: Yes.

LEMON: OK, great.

Will Cain.

CAIN: Don, the first rule of politics is always get re-elected. Republicans can't get re-elected if you raise taxes. Democrats can't get re-elected if they cut entitlements. Nobody gets reelected if we default.

LEMON: Yes.

CAIN: There will be a deal. It'll be about $1 trillion, $1.5 trillion in cuts. It'll follow McConnell and Reid's plan. That's where we'll be.

LEMON: And beyond being re-elected, if we default, it's not good for any of us, any America.

So, thank you.

CAIN: No. No, it's not.

LEMON: Appreciate it.

All right, let's move on now.

Casey Anthony soon will be a free woman. Her defense team celebrated her acquittal, but there are concerns about her future. We'll take you live to Orlando where her release, just hours away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: You thought the story was over. It's not. Casey Anthony will be free from jail in a matter of hours. In fact, she could be released any time after midnight. All day today people have been visiting the wooded site where the body of Casey's daughter, Caylee, was found back in 2008. As you can see, it became a pretty elaborate and public memorial site. Another sign of how this case captivated so many people, of course.

Let's go back to Orlando and our Martin Savidge, who is live for us there.

Marty, any word on how or when this release might happen?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's probably the most anticipated release from prison that certainly anybody has seen from the Orange County Jail here, which is in the background. And possibly one of the most anticipated that's been seen from any correctional facility for quite some time. You point out, and it's very true, she could be released on Sunday. Well, Sunday begins 12:01. And so, essentially from that point on, the watch begins to see when she could come out of the facility.

But we also know it's not going to be her walking out the front door, which would normally be the case of anybody released from this facility. Instead, they have gone to great lengths to try to protect her. In fact, the sheriff's department said, due to the high-profile nature of this case and intense emotional upset over of the verdict, they have decided that they are going to release her at a point away from here.

But that doesn't mean we won't get to see it. There's a pool camera video that will be inside. There's a stills camera that is part of the same pool that will be inside. And then there is a print report that will be inside, all of them will be able to witness as Casey Anthony is processed out, and then she disappears.

What will happen is they are then sequestered, meaning the pool, for about another couple of hours, and we expect somewhere in the middle of night, they come out, they release the video, they release what they saw. They tell everybody else and then we transmit it to the rest of the world. And it's anticipated she'll be picked up by someone with her defense team and driven to points unknown, Don.

So we don't expect to see her from this vantage point. But we're covering as many exits as we can all through the night just in case.

LEMON: So we're there anyway.

All right, thank you very much, Martin Savidge.

And right after the break, former prosecutor, Holly Hughes, weighs in on the Casey Anthony case. How do these releases work and will it happen in the dark of night? She's going to join me live right here.

But first, hit hard by the recession, this week's "CNN Hero" turned to her backyard to put food on her family's dinner table. Seeing that other families were also struggling, Holly Hirschberg decided she needed to help them too.

(CNN HEROES)

LEMON: Remember, "CNN Heroes" are chosen from people you tell us about. To nominate someone who's making a big difference in your community, go to CNNheroes.com.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOY BEHAR, HOST, THE JOY BEHAR SHOW: Let me ask you something. Do you have children?

DOROTHY CLAYS SIMS: CASEY ANTHONY DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. BEHAR: Would you let Casey Anthony babysit your kids? You say she's innocent.

CLAY SIMS: Well, you know, my kids are older.

BEHAR: Let's say they were younger. Would you leave her with your children?

CLAY SIMS: I -- I -- I liked Casey Anthony. I came to trust her. And that's a really -- I felt -- the Casey Anthony that I knew, I felt very comfortable with her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I watched that live. That was great TV.

(LAUGHTER)

That was great TV.

(LAUGHTER)

And that was a really great question. That was Casey Anthony's attorney, seemingly at a loss for words on Joy Behar's show on HLN. A revealing answer, for sure.

Holly Hughes is here. She's a former prosecutor and a criminal defense attorney as well.

So, listen, as I said, that was a great question by Joy.

(LAUGHTER)

You'd think she would dance around it better. What did you make of her answer?

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY & FORMER PROSECUTOR: Wow.

LEMON: Yes.

HUGHES: She had to know it was coming, Don, and yet, she's like a deer in the headlights.

(LAUGHTER)

All I kept thinking --

LEMON: I don't think -- I don't -- see, that's not an obvious question. That is a question --

HUGHES: You --

LEMON: I think that that question, Joy Behar -- and that comes from -- that's like someone who will ask a political question who's outside of the Beltway, where everything thinks, who asks -- journalists think to ask questions in a certain way. HUGHES: Right.

LEMON: Would you let her babysit your kid, that's a simple human mother question. It's not a journalist question.

HUGHES: Right. To me that is the most obvious. People have got to be asking her that. She spent all this time with her. She was the one -- remember, Dorothy Clay Sims was the one who was mothering Casey throughout the trial. she didn't do a whole lot of lawyering, but she did a whole lot of mothering her, hugging on her and -- in front of the jury and petting on her hair, and really treating her like a daughter. So when you're asked the question --

LEMON: But then she doesn't know.

(LAUGHTER)

HUGHES: Right. Exactly. When you're asked the question, would you -- you should have an answer prepared for that, because everybody wants to know.

LEMON: What does that say about here? What does that say as an attorney? Did she believe her own client?

HUGHES: I don't think so because here's the deal. The non-answer speaks a lot louder than if she had just flat-out answered the question, and said, you know, I'm not comfortable with it because she's a party girl, leave it at that. You don't have to infer that she's a murder.

LEMON: Or I would prefer someone a little bit more mature or --

HUGHES: Right. Exactly.

LEMON: -- older, who I know better.

HUGHES: There's a million reasons where you can answer that and still now implicate your client and still not say I think she's guilty. But I'll tell you one thing, Don. If she does come to your house, you better lock up your children, your check books and your chotzkies (ph), because she'll steal anything.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: OK. So listen, everybody's talking about here release. She's not going to be seen in public. How's this going to happen? And why do we care so much?

HUGHES: We can't get enough of this trial --

LEMON: OK, so how's this going to happen?

HUGHES: -- and it's because of the different humanities that are involved. We talked about that, the different personalities, the dysfunction. They're going to release her in the dead of night and probably -- LEMON: We're not going to see her?

HUGHES: No. what's probably going to happen, Don, is they're probably going to send five or six dark-tinted windows suburbans or cars out so that the paparazzi or the legitimate press does not know which one to follow. Because they do not want any harm to come to her on their watch. Remember, Princess Diana was killed when the paparazzi was chasing them and they were trying to escape from the paparazzi.

LEMON: OK.

HUGHES: So they don't want that on their watch.

LEMON: OK. All right, let's move on because I want to talk to you about this story.

(CROSSTALK)

HUGHES: Yes.

LEMON: I'm obsessed with it. Rupert Murdoch, News Corps, News International, "Wall Street Journal," Les Hinton --

(LAUGHTER)

HUGHES: Big news.

LEMON: They own "FOX News."

HUGHES: Yes, half the world.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Yes, "American Idol."

HUGHES: It's an empire.

LEMON: So now there's an FBI investigation here in the United States. This guy at "the Wall Street Journal" had to resign. Rebekah Brooks also had to resign.

HUGHES: Yes.

LEMON: The former -- David Cameron's PIO, who also worked for the paper --

HUGHES: Exactly. He's the prime minister, right.

LEMON: -- he is -- went to jail, right.

HUGHES: Absolutely. He was under arrest. This thing is so far reaching, it's -- think of it like the tentacles of an octopus. It's completely circular and it's going to reach all over the world. What we're going to see here, Don, is multijurisdictional suits, criminal and civil suits, because they have -- you can establish legal jurisdiction if something happens in a particular area or location, like, Fulton County, say. Well, OK, then Fulton County can prosecute. If they did, in fact, hack into the cell phones of 911's victims or families, then the jurisdiction will lie where that was done.

LEMON: And that was here in the United States.

HUGHES: That's right. Absolutely.

LEMON: And let's not forget, News Corp is a U.S. company.

HUGHES: Absolutely. That's right.

LEMON: It's a U.S. company.

All right, I got to go, but does Rupert Murdoch have any exposure legally, any criminal or any sort of exposure himself personally?

HUGHES: Absolutely, he's got civil exposure. It depends on how much he knew, if he's going to face criminal charges, because, remember, Rebekah Brooks was implicated back in 2005 and Prince William's people broke it wide open, and he stood by her and said I'm keeping her on.

LEMON: And the prime minister supposed, what did he know and when did he know it as well.

HUGHES: Yes. He could be facing charges.

LEMON: This is not --

(CROSSTALK)

HUGHES: Oh, no.

Thank you, Holly. Appreciate it.

When we come back, a well known sculptor makes a courageous come back from a career-ending stroke. He's amazing story after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Kevin Robb is a well-known metal sculpture who reached the height of success in the art world, but a stroke in 2004 cost him his career and nearly his life. Now he's back and creating art again. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta has his remarkable story in today's "Human Factor."

(THE HUMAN FACTOR)

LEMON: Very nice.

When we come right back, we'll go and check out the so-called Carmageddon. Take you back live to the 405, right after the break, in Los Angeles.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: All right. Look at that. You're looking out of the window of a helicopter. That gentleman sitting right there is Antonio Villaraigosa, the mayor of Los Angeles. He has been saying that L.A. would survive Carmageddon, the shutting down of the 405. There he is taking a tour high above that interstate. The warnings to stay of the roads in Los Angeles must have worked. L.A.'s car-obsessed culture was expecting a Carmageddon, as we said, this weekend, because a 10- mile stretch of the 405 is shut down until Monday. But, so far, seems like, oh, a lot of Hollywood hype.

Paul Vercammen, driving from Long Beach Airport right now and our Kareen Wynter is above the 405 at Mulholland Drive.

We're going to start with Paul.

Paul, you're on the road driving. You saw the mayor.

If Paul there?

Can you hear us, Paul?

Let's go to Kareen. Kareen Wynter standing by patiently.

(LAUGHTER)

What's going -- I mean, it looks like nothing's happening? It's like the best I've ever seen on the traffic on the 405 ever.

KAREEN WYNTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I know. You can hear a pin drop out here. Don, you sound disappointed, but this is an actually good thing. You can't underestimate how huge this undertaking is, a $1 billion construction effort, and the fact that motors heeded all the warnings is great, that we don't have that traffic nightmare some were insinuating. It's not that things didn't go right. Things worked out well. So it's a lot of celebration. But we don't want to celebrate too early, because it is still early in the weekend. We don't know what could happen tomorrow or Monday morning, although things are expected to open up then.

Here's the short and sweet update from California transportation officials. They say things are moving ahead really well. All the construction crewing behind me, have been at it all day long. And to put it in perspective, Don, they're knocking down a portion of the bridge, not the whole thing, just the south side of the Mulholland Drive Bridge.

LEMON: Yes.

WYNTER: So basically what you're seeing right now, so they're ahead of schedule. No major traffic backups to report. And a short time ago, we had a chance to go down on the 405 freeway and see how basically clear it is down there. Things look really well from our standpoint -- Don?

LEMON: Yes, there's a sequel, because they'll have to do the north side and we'll be repeating this all over again. Hey, Paul Vercammen, quickly, I have about 10 seconds left. How's the traffic?

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, we are now on the U.S. 101 going eastbound, very close to the 405 interchange. This would be a horrendous mess under many circumstances. People going down to the beach. Also a mess going the other way. Wide-open freeway here on the 101 here as well. So it's looking like southern California is surviving Carmageddon -- Don?

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: I don't think we can call it Carmageddon since nothing actually happened. But anyway, it's an interesting story, and it's good nothing's happened, I guess.

I'm Don Lemon, CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. See you back here in one hour.

"THE SITUATION ROOM" begins right now.