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In Depth: Parliament Pressures; Debt Deal Now, Cuts Later?; NFL Sued For Concealing Brain Injury Data; Starvation Drives Somalis to Kenyan Refugee Camps; Education Budget Cuts; End of Bookstores?
Aired July 20, 2011 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: A new hour starts with this breaking news, word that the U.S. Justice Department plans to meet with families of 9/11 victims over growing suspicions their phones may have been hacked by reporters working for Rupert Murdoch. The FBI plans to meet with those families, too. No dates have been set.
Now, then, if you think the British press is rough and tumble, you got to love parliament. Welcome to an uncommon session of the House of Commons where the phone hacking scandal that began years ago in a new defunct tabloid today fell dramatically and noisily in the lap of the British Prime Minister David Cameron.
Imagine for a second if a U.S. president had to stand on the floor of Congress and defend his hiring of a newspaper man suspected of eavesdropping.
This is that man -- Andy Coulson, former editor of Rupert Murdoch's "News of the World," later, David Cameron's communications director. Coulson quit the job under a cloud in January and was arrested this month.
Cameron says if he'd known then what he knows now, Coulson never would have worked for him. But now, he's in no mood to apologize.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: What the public expects is not petty political point scoring --
(JEERS)
CAMERON: -- what they want, what they deserve is concerted action to rise to the level of events and pledge to work together to sort this issue out once and for all. And it is in that spirit that I commend this statement to the house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: It's no exaggeration to say Britain's very foundations are shaken by the lengths to which some London muckrakers allegedly went to find the scoop.
Just yesterday, Rupert Murdoch, his son James and News Corp former top British executive, Rebekah Brooks, you see them all right there in the center behind me, they were hauled before a parliamentary committee. This followed the resignations of Britain's top two police officials whose own phone hack investigations went nowhere and were blasted today by parliament.
And then, of course, there is the prime minister, David Cameron. He is facing the single biggest crisis of his 15 months as prime minister.
My colleague Dan Rivers has been watching the latest spectacle.
Dan, a lot of people are wondering, is Cameron's leadership really under threat here?
DAN RIVERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's certainly under pressure.
And the House of Commons, at its worst, can be a real sort of bear pit. It's noisy. It's rowdy. It's impolite.
And that's exactly what it was like today with David Cameron facing some 130 different questions about phone hacking and specifically about his hiring of Andy Coulson -- something that the opposition just went for time and time again.
Now, the leader of the opposition party here, the Labour Party, is Ed Miliband. And he wasted no time in going straight in for the jugular, asking the prime minister why he ignored neared repeated warnings not to hire Andy Coulson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED MILIBAND, LABOUR PARTY LEADER: He says in hindsight he made a mistake by hiring Mr. Coulson. He says if Mr. Coulson lied to him, he would apologize.
Mr. Speaker, that isn't good enough. Because people -- people -- it's not about hindsight, Mr. Speaker. It's not about whether Mr. Coulson lied to him.
It is about all the information and warnings that the prime minister ignored. He was warned. And he preferred to ignore the warnings.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIVERS: Ed Miliband didn't quite go as far as calling on the prime minister to resign, but he did call on him to say sorry.
David Cameron, on the other hand, said he had nothing to apologize for. He wanted to give Andy Coulson a second chance. He believed him when he said he knew nothing about phone hacking.
Now, we know that -- well, we don't know for sure what Andy Coulson knew. He's been arrested. It's all rather embarrassing.
The prime minister still sticking to this line, look, he's not been tried and judged yet. Let's wait and see what the police find out.
KAYE: It is incredible, Dan, to watch this all unfold, you know, between the hearings yesterday and everything that's happened and all those who have resigned and been arrested. What does parliament say about how all this has been handled so far?
RIVERS: Well, there has been withering criticism from all parties about how the police have handled this. Don't forget that they looked into this initially back in 2006, '07, looking first of all into the hacking of members of the royal family's phones and concluded that only a handful of people had had their phones hacked into.
Now, they're saying 4,000 people and upwards may have had their phones hacked into. And that has been roundly criticized that they didn't go back and look properly at that evidence first of all. They had 11,000 pages of evidence which they simply didn't go through meticulously enough. They didn't pick up on the fact that the finance minister, even here, had his phone tapped, and the former prime minister, Gordon Brown.
So, the police have had an absolute kicking -- so has Rupert and James Murdoch. And today, so did the prime minister, David Cameron.
KAYE: Dan rivers in London -- Dan, thank you.
If close ties with the Murdoch crowd are now a liability in the U.K. government, they didn't begin with David Cameron. Rebekah Brooks told lawmakers yesterday that she visited Cameron's predecessors a lot more often than she ever saw David Cameron. Brooks is the long-time Murdoch protege who rose to become his British chief executive until she resigned and was suddenly arrested.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REBEKAH BROOKS, FORMER CEO, NEWS INTERNATIONAL: The fact is I've never been to Downing Street while David Cameron has been prime minister. And yet under Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Prime Minister Tony Blair, I did regularly go to Downing Street. Strangely, it was under Labour prime ministers that I was a regular visitor to Downing Street and not -- and not the current administration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: At least six investigations are now under way into phone hacks, bribes to police and government conflicts of interest. We will, of course, keep you posted on all of that.
Checking some other top stories that we're following:
President Obama says he'd agree with short term extension of the debt ceiling. The White House says it would happen only if there's an agreement on a significant deficit reduction plan by Congress. Until now, Mr. Obama has opposed any sort short-term deal. The president has responded favorably to a news bipartisan plan from six senators to reduce deficits by nearly $4 trillion over the coming decade.
Time is running out before the August 2nd deadline to raise the government's $14.3 trillion debt ceiling.
Mr. Obama is meeting with both House and Senate Democratic leaders at the White House in less than an hour from now. More on this in ten minutes when we speak with former secretary of labor, Robert Reich.
In what he calls the, quote, "largest commercial aircraft order in history," American Airlines is replacing its fleet with hundreds of new airlines from Boeing and Airbus. AMR Corp, the parent company of American, says the new aircraft order will replace its current fleet with more fuel efficient planes. The order calls for 460 Boeing 737s and Airbus A-320s.
Boeing says the new planes are 5 percent more fuel efficient than older generations that were built back in the 1990s.
Seventy-five former football players are suing the NFL claiming the league purposefully concealed the harmful effects of game-related concussions. The lawsuit filed Tuesday claims the NFL knew as early as 1920s about the dangerous effects of concussions on a player's brain but did not disclose the information before 2010. Riddell, the company that makes helmets for the league is also named as a defendant in the suit which seeks unspecified damages.
League spokesman Greg Aiello told the Web site profootballtalk.com that the league was not aware of the claims of the suit but would vigorously contest any claims of that kind.
We'll talk more about this with our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, in just about 20 minutes from now.
School children being used as pawns in a budget battle in Memphis. The first day of school put on hold indefinitely. The vote was 8-1. We'll talk to the only school board commissioner who opposed the shutdown, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: School children in Memphis could be getting a longer than expected summer break. The school board voted last night to delay the August 8th start of school. The board says the city has shorted the district about $150 million over the last several years. And classes won't start until they get $55 million the city owes the schools for this year.
The school board commissioner who proposed the shutdown says schools could be closed indefinitely.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REV. KENNETH WHALUM, MEMPHIS CITY SCHOOLS COMMISSIONER: The school board on a vote of 8-1 decided -- on a vote of 8-1, decided we're no longer going to wait for funds that the state says we are rightfully due. And 8-1 was the vote to delay indefinitely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: Here now to talk about the school funding battle in Memphis is the only school board member who voted against shutting the schools down. He is Martavius Jones.
Mr. Jones, thank you so much for coming on.
I want to ask you first, why did you oppose this? You were the only "no" vote in this case.
MARTAVIUS JONES, PRES., MEMPHIS CITY SCHOOL BOARD OF COMM.: In principle, I support the decision of the board of education. My "no" vote was merely based upon the amount that we are expecting the city to provide Memphis City schools before we open schools.
Now, in principle, I fully support that we should not open schools without having assurances that we will have the sufficient funds in order to conduct an academic school year. We had no assurances going into last night that we would have enough funds to operate the school year.
KAYE: So was your concern about the kids if you didn't get the money to put these classes on hold indefinitely, you didn't think that was a good idea?
JONES: Absolutely. Professionally, I'm a financial adviser. I wouldn't tell a client to go out there and by a new house without having sufficient funds to pay for it. We should not open schools and provide an enriched academic environment that we strive to do without having sufficient funds to do that.
We have worked with the city council over the past -- well, since 2008. And we have $73 million in arrears from our city council right now. And we've relied upon our savings account -- the equivalent of our savings account to fund Memphis City schools since 2008. And we just don't have the money to do that anymore.
KAYE: The mayor, I spoke with him last hour. He blames property taxes. He said the money just isn't there.
But he also says that he's confident the school will open and the kids will go to class on August 8th. Do you believe that?
JONES: I am hopeful and I'm going to do all that I can to make sure that teachers who are to report on August 1st will be able to report August 1st, and a week later, August 8th, that the kids will be able to report to school.
However, I have to take back to my board of education, my colleagues -- I have to take back something that's agreeable. And I would not vote for us to open schools if we don't have any type of payment arrangements, which we've not had in the past, of when we can expect payments to fund Memphis City schools and receive everything that's required by state law in order to operate Memphis City schools in this fiscal year.
KAYE: Help us understand what is so bad about what's happening there in that district because -- I mean, if you're talking about keeping these kids out of school indefinitely, what's so bad in terms of the situation there, how bad is it for the children in school that you would actually consider this?
JONES: We -- we would -- we could inherently be looking at a situation where we started on August 8th. Kids report on August 8th. And without any assurances of payment, we could be at November 15th, and we -- because we don't have any payment arrangements, the city council has not -- up until now, the city council only yesterday gave us a date on which we could approve a budget or present a budget to be approved.
So, we could have been looking at November 15th without any funding and we'd have to close the doors of the Memphis City schools. Instead of doing that --
KAYE: Just quickly, tell me, if the children can't get to school on August 8th, what's going to happen? Will they have to make up these days?
JONES: By law, we have to provide 180 days of instructional days. So, we would have to extend the school year into June next year. Normally, we get out right before, right after Labor Day. We would have to extend the school year to make sure they have 180 days of instructional time.
KAYE: Martavius Jones, I appreciate you coming on and talking to us about this. And please do keep us up to date. We're going to continue to follow this. We want to know if those students are going to school on August 8th regardless of what the mayor says.
So, please check in with us. Thank you.
JONES: Memphis City schools wants the children there. Thank you.
KAYE: Thank you.
Everybody talks about the deficits. Now maybe, just maybe, Washington will do something about them and that pesky debt ceiling as well. I'll get the views of a guy who's been there, Robert Reich, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: In a little over half an hour, President Obama will sit down again with Democrat leaders of Congress on the debt ceiling crisis. And though time has grown shorter since last they talked, the prospects for real action seem greater. Keyword, "seem." Months of behind the scenes work by senators of both parties is suddenly emerging as a possible way out of a standoff that could lead to the first ever U.S. government default in just 13 days.
A blueprint from the so-called "gang of six" would aim for $3.7 trillion in deficit reduction over ten years and $500 billion in immediate savings. It would rewrite the tax code, lowering income tax rates, but closing all manner of loopholes and write-offs. It would force down spending on entitlements, Medicare and Social Security.
And while there's no way a bill of that size could get passed by August 2nd, just having it out there may be enough to get an increase in the debt limit before the Treasury has to start stiffing its many creditors.
Watching all this from a safe distance is former labor secretary, Robert Reich, now professor of public policy at U.C.-Berkeley and author of numerous books, including "Aftershock: The Next Economy & America's Future."
Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for your time on the program today.
ROBERT REICH, FORMER LABOR SECRETARY: Hi, Randi.
KAYE: If you were in that White House meeting in just about a half an hour from now, what would you tell both sides?
REICH: Well, I would say very simply that a failure to raise the debt ceiling is not a small matter. It means that we are not paying interest on our obligations. It means, therefore, that any further loans and lenders are going to demand huge interest from the United States. It's going to hurt our future faith and credit. In fact, it really would bust the faith and credit of the United States altogether.
And every American would suffer as a result. This isn't a matter of just a few people being out of Social Security or out of Medicare. Those checks would not go out, by the way. But all Americans would suffer because of the higher interest rates that would result.
KAYE: So many plans, so many numbers -- it's sort of getting hard to keep track of it all. But we have talked about the "gang of six" plan. But there's two more actually in the mix. We have the House Republican "cut, cap and balance" plan -- which just passed yesterday, as you know. We also have the McConnell/Reid Senate plan. That one would actually let the president raise the debt limit in three installments between now and the 2012 elections.
What do you think of that plan? Is that a solution or stopgap or worse?
REICH: It's a stopgap. It's not worse than a stopgap, Randi. But it certainly is way of kicking the can down the road a little bit.
Remember -- on the mind of most Americans today is not the budget deficit and it's not the debt ceiling. It is jobs and wages. Those are the big issues.
And most Americans are saying to themselves -- according to the polls and also just a little casual empiricism, talk to people around you, and they're saying when is Washington going to get on with the business of getting jobs and wages back on the front burner?
Well, Washington presumably has to get by this impasse, this debt ceiling impasse, before it can turn to jobs and wages. And hopefully it will.
KAYE: What is the best case scenario, do you think, as you look at all of this on the table? What's the best-case scenario for the country and really also for the president?
REICH: Over the long term, we do have to bring down the budget deficit. There's no question about that.
In the short term -- that is over the next year -- we should not be doing budget deficit reduction because, remember, businesses are not spending. Individuals, consumers, are not spending because they're so worried right now about their own plight. They're having big mortgage interest that they have to pay. Not only that, they also are worried about their jobs and wages. They're still not out of the gravitational pull of the great recession.
Government spending -- whether you like it or not -- is necessary to make up for the reluctance of individuals, consumers and businesses to spend. Otherwise, we're going to be mired in the recession for years.
But I would say once we get by the recession, in fact, hopefully next year, maybe the year after, once unemployment starts coming down, then by all means, let's focus like a laser on getting the budget deficit down.
KAYE: Robert Reich, thank you for your insight and your time.
Take a look here. This is where it all happened. First, a millionaire's girlfriend is found dead hanging from a balcony. Then his son dies after falling down the stairs. It all happened the same week.
So, are the two connected? That story is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: It is a bizarre story out of the wealthy town of Coronado, California, that involves two deaths at the same mansion. The first, a 6-year-old boy, son of pharmaceutical executive Jonah Shacknai. Max Shacknai died over the weekend after falling down the stairs six days earlier. The second, just two days after Max's fall, Jonah's girlfriend Rebecca Zahau. She was found hanging off a balcony at the home naked with her hands and her feet bound.
Now, investigators have said they believe the little boy's fall was an accident. But they are investigating whether the two deaths are possibly linked.
Joining me now, forensic psychologist, Dr. Kris Mohandie.
Kris, thanks for coming on to help us break this down a bit.
I know you're not directly involved in this case, but I want to ask you what you think investigators are doing right now to try and figure out what happened -- at least to Rebecca, the woman.
KRIS MOHANDIE, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, in any death situation, they're going to be looking at one of four possibilities. Is it natural? Is it an accident? Is it suicide or homicide? What we call NASH, the acronym NASH.
You can rule out that it's natural. So, the possibility could be, not probable, an accident of some sort during some sort of extreme behavior. But more likely, they're going to be focusing in on evidence to support or refute whether it's a suicide or some sort of homicide.
So, right now, they're doing a victimology analysis, looking at everything they know about her, trying to figure out if she was a high-risk victim, if there was any kind of changes in her life that might point towards a suicide or any other kinds of situations that could have brought her on a collision course with somebody who might have victimized her.
So, they're exploring all these possibilities and especially focusing in on the suicide versus the homicide types of scenarios. They're keeping an open mind and they're looking at the evidence, talking to people and going at it from that framework. KAYE: And you have, though, this little boy who had fallen down the stairs in this home just a couple of days before she was found. So, how much evidence might there be in his case and how important would that be, compared to what they might find surrounding her case?
MOHANDIE: Well, the tragic death of this little boy could just simply be a coincidence. But to have two of these events happening in such close temporal proximity is certainly worthy of looking at hard and long. That may be, for example, a motivation for why a person, if they feel guilty or responsible, might want to take their own lives.
On the other hand, if somebody is blaming a person for having been part of the circumstances leading up to a tragedy like that, that could potentially lead to somebody having a motivation.
On the other hand, maybe there is some diabolical plan targeting this family, this household, completely apart from all of this. They're going to look at all possibilities here and keep an open mind and see what comes up.
KAYE: All right. Dr. Kris Mohandie, appreciate your insight. Thank you.
Up next --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRED MCNEILL, FORMER NFL PLAYER: I was actually considering not living. I was actually considering that.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You wanted to end your life?
MCNEILL: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: But instead, that former football player is now one of dozens who has just sued the NFL. We'll have his story and talk much more about the lawsuit with Dr. Sanjay Gupta, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: Breaking news.
According to a GOP aide, Speaker Boehner, House Speaker John Boehner, and Minority Leader Eric Cantor will be meeting with the president today at 5:00 p.m. at the White House. That'll be just a couple of hours or so after the president is expected to meet with the Democratic leaders. So there you have the picture there in Washington, the White House and Congress, certainly the focus today.
The NFL has just been hit with a lawsuit by 75 former players. The claim? The league has known for about 90 years that there's a link between concussions and brain damage but intentionally concealed that information from players, coaches, trainers and the public until last year.
We reached out to the NFL for a comment on this, and received this statement. It says, quote, "We have not seen the complaint but would vigorously contest any claims of this kind."
We should also note that Riddell, the company that makes helmets for the NFL is also named as a defendant in the lawsuit. We have reached out to them for comment but so far have not heard anything back.
Last fall Chief Medical Correspondent Doctor Sanjay Gupta spoke with former Vikings linebacker Fred McNeill who is now suing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, he got drilled at the five!
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They are thrilling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Came in with a stinger.
GUPTA: And terrifying. Watch a football game, and you can't miss that. The hits. But what is the real impact? What is happening to the players' brains? (on camera): How many times you take a hard hit playing football?
FRED MCNEILL, FORMER NFL PLAYER: There was one time that I had a real serious concussion. And it was so serious that I was -- I was dizzy for, like, you know, for, like, two, three weeks.
GUPTA (voice-over): 30 years ago Fred McNeill was a linebacker for the Minnesota Vikings. He played for 12 seasons and in two Super Bowls.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He takes a big shot!
GUPTA: Relentlessly hitting opponents was his job.
MCNEILL: You got to be able to move, right?
GUPTA (on camera): Right.
(voice-over): No question McNeill is robust physically.
MCNEILL: And you can control it.
GUPTA: But you can tell his brain has paid a price.
(on camera): What has it done to you?
MCNEILL: Well, the impact is on memory. I see people and they talk about the conversation that we had, you know, two weeks ago, or three weeks ago, or a month ago, or whatever, and I don't remember.
GUPTA: If we saw each other again, would you remember me?
MCNEILL: Sanjay, I don't know.
When I started out --
GUPTA (voice-over): The not knowing that happens often. There was also rage.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It got to where I would say things that really shouldn't upset him and he would get angry really quick. His temper was very short.
GUPTA: Followed by remorse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that was the biggest thing for my dad. He felt like it was all his fault.
GUPTA: It wasn't. But there was no doubt he was different.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a moment where I realized I wasn't living with the person that I knew and married.
GUPTA: No one seemed to know what was happening to Fred McNeill. Until reports about other former NFL players who had been through similar issues. Like McNeill, they had memory problems, rage issues and depression. Most disturbing? All died young. Could concussions, the common denominator, be to blame?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that a little bit different on this side?
GUPTA: Researchers at Boston University Medical School are looking deep into the brain and spinal cord of former athletes to find out. What they are seeing is startling. This is a normal brain. This one a 45-year-old former NFL player. See the brown tangles? That's brain damage. It looks a lot like this 70-year-old brain, with dementia.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To see the kind of changes we're seeing in 45-year-olds is -- is basically unheard of.
Reporter: it's called chronic traumatic encephalopathy. Here's the kicker. Those changes are directly associated with rage, memory problems and depression.
MCNEILL: I was actually considering not living. I was actually considering that.
GUPTA: You wanted to end your life?
MCNEILL: Yes. I was just thinking that would be so much easier.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE: And Sanjay Gupta joins me now.
Wow. I mean, that is just so hard to watch. Clearly, he's struggling. I know you've been in touch with his wife today about the lawsuit. What is she saying?
GUPTA: I think this was a process of deliberation for her. What she's basically said is, look. Look at him, he's a physically robust guy. Charming certainly when you meet him as you saw there. He is unable to do anything, Randi. He is unable to continue any sort of life after football. That's the first point. The second point is that she has looked at the evidence along with a lot of these other plaintiffs, and said, who knew what when? And it seems like, at least according to her, there was a lot more information prior to last year, 2010, when this was first officially acknowledged by the NFL.
Let me just tell you really quickly, Randi, what we're talking about here with regard to concussions. A quick animation might demonstrate this. You talk about the brain sort of moving back and forth in the head. It's sort of a fluid medium, moving back and forth. Lots of chemicals released in response to that quick movement, that damage. Those chemicals essentially will stay in the brain and cause forms of brain damage. But the brain can potentially heal from a single concussion. The real problem for a lot of these players is that the brain doesn't heal and they're back on the field and get a second concussion. It can be exponentially worse. That's been an issue for a long time. A lot of scientists have made this particular claim. KAYE: What have the NFL's doctors been saying about concussions?
GUPTA: I've interviewed them as well. Doctor Ellenbogen, he chairs a committee that oversees this issue specifically. He has talked about this. And he released a statement some time ago when this issue started to come up last year. He says, "What we're trying to prevent is multiple concussions" - for the reasons I just mentioned, "without recovery. We know there are long-term effects of concussions but they have not been fully characterized."
As you mentioned, Randi, they haven't looked at the report as well. They say they're going to vigorously contest, you know, this lawsuit.
KAYE: So what is the outlook for Fred McNeill?
GUPTA: It's tough. I mean --
KAYE: Is there any way to get that memory back?
GUPTA: I think that you'd have to almost characterize Fred McNeill is someone that you characterize with dementia, with almost an Alzheimer's like disease. As you know, the outlook is not good right now. There's lots of research taking place, but right now it's more in the category of diagnosis and prevention, than in treatment.
So for Fred McNeill, you know, while he's conducting his life, he's able to interact with his wife, his memory, his short-term memory is just quickly disappearing. As well as the depression issues, the rage issues, so it's not good right now. But, you know, that's part of what's driving them.
KAYE: What struck me was that question you said to him. I took a deep breath in when you said it, when you went, would he remember you if he saw you again. He said he didn't know. That just breaks my heart.
GUPTA: It gave me chills. We're sitting there having this long conversation just like you are now. At some point I realized, he is not really remembering much of anything here. So I just asked the question and it was a moment of extreme candor. As soon as he walked away from me, there was a good chance that he had forgotten about me.
KAYE: I would also imagine the doctors who are studying this, they must be shocked by what they're seeing.
GUPTA: I think when they first -- when you saw those slides, when they first saw that evidence of encephalopathy in a 45-year-old, the same sort of thing they see in 70, 80-year-olds, I think it was a moment for all of them to say there is something happening here. Now we have evidence of it.
KAYE: I mean, you're a brain surgeon. Would you ever imagine that something like this would be the result of a professional sport? It just seems so wrong. GUPTA: You know, I think, for example, in boxing there's been literature for some time in boxing about something called being punched drunk, for example, after developing this dementia after matches. The same sort of forces possibly taking place on the brain in younger and younger players, who are bigger and stronger and faster than ever before, it's shocking to see.
But I guess not entirely surprising. As some football players have said to me when I really press them, how do you make yourself safe, why do you do this, isn't this hurting your brain? They say, look, if you don't want this, don't play football. It's going to happen to everybody. That's been the attitude.
KAYE: They're ageing decades before their time.
GUPTA: After football they don't have the life they anticipated.
KAYE: What do you have this weekend?
GUPTA: We'll talk a lot about this. We're also going to talk to Max Page. You may remember him. He was the boy from the Darth Vader commercial.
KAYE: Oh, yes!
GUPTA: He has been a Children's Hospital in Los Angeles having, you know, he's had an issue with his heart. He's doing great. I want to take about how his life has been since all of that.
KAYE: Is he has adorable in person as he was in that costume?
GUPTA: He is an unbelievably-he came right up to me, this six- year-old kid and said, "I hear you have three daughters. I'd like to meet them." He's six years old.
KAYE: Oh, I can't wait.
GUPTA: He's going to have quite a career.
KAYE: We'll tune in, "SANJAY GUPTA, MD", this weekend.
Thank you, Sanjay. Appreciate it.
Hundreds of thousands on a desperate search for food and water. The U.N. declares famine in Somalia. A live report from a refugee camp, coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: For tens of thousands of desperate people in Somalia, each day is now one of life or death. The reason? What the U.N. describes as the worst drought in more than half a century in the southern part of the country. Hundreds of thousands of Somalis have fled to refugee camps in neighboring Kenya or Ethiopia.
CNN's David McKenzie joins us now from one of the camps in Kenya. David, tell us what the conditions are like where you are.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the conditions are horrible, Randi. Basically what we're having is up to 5,000 people a week streaming into these camps. This is the Dove (ph) Camp in northern Kenya. It's really the main point where refugees who are coming out of that famine zone in the southern part of Somalia are where they come to here in Kenya.
When people arrive, Randi, they come into this camp. They go to the reception area. They get two weeks of food, which I saw that amount of food, it is a tiny amount for people to survive on. They don't get shelter. They don't get initially registered as refugees. They go to the outskirts of the camp, to areas that are terrible conditions. They don't even have proper shelter. They don't have access to water easily. And literally we saw a father burying his four-year-old child yesterday. She died of hunger even though she'd already made it to Kenya to safety, Randi.
KAYE: What is the status, David, of the international aid that's coming in? What are they receiving and is it going to be enough?
MCKENZIE: Well, groups say that there's a shortfall in funding. The U.S. government announced today that because of this call by the U.N., that there is a famine in two parts of southern Somalia, Randi, that they are going to bolster funding. Other governments have also promised to fund. But that just isn't enough at this point.
However, one thing is the money. The other issue is the access. In southern Somalia al-Shabab, the Islamic militant group, which has links to Al Qaeda is effectively stopping aid groups from going in. They threw out the World Food Program, some years ago, Randi, and effectively now you have this situation where aid groups want to go in. Even USAID says they want to work with the U.N. to get into these areas controlled by this militant group.
They say it's OK. That they'll allow safe access. But the U.N. wants assurances that aid workers are not kidnapped or killed if they go to these people, and give them that assistance. With that assistance in southern Somalia, you would see a slowdown in the flow of refugees here to Kenya. And you might see quite a quick end to this crisis. But that's the $6 million question right now. Will al- Shabab let the aid groups into the south?.
KAYE: David McKenzie, in Kenya. David, thank you for your reporting.
Education budgets on the chopping block. Are we sacrificing our future or is it a necessary evil in tough economic times? Our Stream Team will tackle that subject right after the break.
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KAYE: Last week, Memphis City school superintendent Kriner Cash was directed to cut $78 million from the current budget. Entire budgets for non-mandated programs such as junior ROTC, school security staff and early childhood education were cut.
The Memphis City School's Board held an emergency meeting last night. The board claims that the city owes them over $151 million, dating back to 2008. And that it would be, quote, "irresponsible" to open schools while cutting all of these services. So, the board voted to indefinitely delay the school year until the city of Memphis pays up.
Meanwhile, in Minnesota, legislators agreed on a proposal to end the state government shutdown. Part of the deal would require the state to raise $700 million by delaying state aid checks to school districts.
And while you can find reports of delayed payments to school districts all over the country, all of the budget battles have one thing in common: when public sector spending needs to be reined in, education becomes a major part of the equation.
So, the question for today's Stream Team is this: are education cuts sacrificing the future or a necessary evil?
On the team today: Jeff Gardere is a clinical psychologist. And Steve Perry, he's on the phone with us. He's a founder and principal the Capital Preparatory Magnet School. He joins us also.
Let me start with you, Jeff, if I can. Are you in favor of the steps that the Memphis school board is taking? Do you think this is a good idea to delay school indefinitely?
JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I think it's a horrible idea. It's a horrible message to the kids. We are telling them we're playing politics with their education. Education should be the last bastion that should be touched.
And I just think they're being forced -- in their own minds, they feel they're being forced to take this drastic action.
But, again, I just do believe that it's going to have a very deleterious effect on the minds of the children knowing that this is going on.
KAYE: Steve, what are your thoughts on the recession and how it is impacting education reform?
STEVE PERRY, CNN EDUCATION CONTRIBUTOR (via telephone): The recession has been one of the most important things to happen to public education. Because what it's done is it's shown us that we've overspent and underperformed. And it's now created an opportunity where accountability can be the order of the day.
It's also presented us with the opportunity for governors to lead. They've been given a mandate to make certain decisions to just get done.
And, finally, what it's also shown us is we as educators have a responsibility to make sure we are fiscally responsible. We've seen for too long that in public schools, we've had whatever we wanted. As often as we talk about the problems of underfunding and over- expecting, we've had an average class size for very long of about 22. As a result, we've gotten -- we've become one of lowest performing public school systems in the world.
KAYE: So, it sounds like you're saying that you do believe that schools can actually run more efficiently. How much of a problem is it for schools to not have their whole budget?
PERRY: Well, it's a problem for them to not have their whole budget. It would be foolhardy to say you can operate without the budget that you need. But the problem is we don't often need the budgets we're often given. We are overspending.
When you give everyone in the school a raise simply because they lived another year, then you're not being fiscally responsible. You have to give raises based upon a person's ability to perform and more importantly, the ability of the organization to pay.
You cannot simply give a raise because it's another calendar year. That's what we've done for too long. You simply cannot give bloated benefits because people want them.
If you can't pay for them, you can't give them. It doesn't matter if they're educators or eye doctors. It doesn't matter.
KAYE: Jeff, who really loses out here? I mean, when you think about school not opening on time and then also, of course, having to extend to make up those days, what happens to the kids here?
GARDERE: Well, these are kids now who see adults as playing with their future. It's like all of us as adults who are so through with Washington, with the partisan politics over the raising of the debt ceiling. We now feel that this is just a big game and we're pawns in it. And the kids see the same thing.
And even though Steve is giving some very wise words here, I really do believe that he's mixing apples and oranges. This isn't about paying for performance that's not being delivered. This is about closing down a school system because you're owed money.
And at the end of the day, the ones who suffer the most, as you're saying, are the kids who are going to have to start school late, perhaps, and then have to work through the summers. It's just not fair to them that the adults are playing politics and I understand that they may have to, but that they are still playing politics with the futures of our children, with the education of our children.
KAYE: Steve, I have 20 seconds for you to have the final word here.
PERRY: Call it politics or whatever you'd like to. In the end, no government entities can run without money. And we are schools and we are government entities. And in order for us to be able to run effectively, we need to be able to pay people.
If there's no money to pay people, it doesn't matter what they do, police, fire or educators. We have to have enough money to pay.
Memphis Public Schools has a particular set of circumstances that extends beyond this conversation, not the least of which it's already been taken over by the county. It's a bigger problem. And it's one of the lowest performing school systems in t country.
KAYE: Right.
PERRY: Much bigger problems than we have the opportunity to discuss here. More important, we as educators have to pitch in and understand that we have a responsibility to be responsible in our spending and in our product.
KAYE: All right, Steve. That was more than 20 seconds, because it's such an important topic, I'll let it go.
PERRY: My bad.
KAYE: Steve Perry, Jeff Gardere, appreciate both of you. Thank you.
GARDERE: Thank you.
KAYE: Planning on picking up the latest copy of "Harry Potter" at your local bookstore? You may need to hurry up. The nation's second largest bookstore chain is closing. Why and what this means for the price of books, next.
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KAYE: Bad news for book lovers this week. Borders, the number two bookstore chain after Barnes & Noble, has announced it will liquidate its assets after efforts to find a buyer have fallen through. Pending bankruptcy court approval, Borders' liquidation could begin as soon as Friday killing 10,700 jobs in its remaining 399 stores.
Martin Savidge has more on the battle of the bookstores.
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MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Once upon a time, all books had pages, and were only bought in stores. What a fairy tale.
Today, we read things called Kindles or Nooks and books are downloaded anywhere, any time.
To see how much things have changed, just peer into John McClure's front window as he runs his publishing company from a spare bedroom.
JOHN MCCLURE, SIGNALMAN PUBLISHING: This is actually a book we published, "Get the Job You Want in IT."
SAVIDGE: He used to go to Borders, then saw the writing on the wall and gave up his IT job to begin a Signalman Publishing. So far, he's published 200 electronic books and seen his business double each year.
MCCLURE: I think publishing is undergoing a huge change not unlike the whole record industry with downloadable music.
SAVIDGE: So, is it the end of paper books? McClure says no. Not even close.
MCCLURE: Just in the last three years, it's literally come to about -- about this point where e-book sales are about on par with the paperback sales.
SAVIDGE (on camera): But you don't think paperbacks are going to go away?
MCCLURE: No. I think it's going to level off somewhere in the middle.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Marketing research expert Britt Beemer agrees. He points out only 11 percent of readers say they would buy an e-reader.
BRITT BEEMER, MARKETING RESEARCH EXPERT: So, you still have -- 90 percent of Americans are still going to buy a book.
SAVIDGE: Beemer says it would be wrong to think Borders went bust because bookstores are obsolete.
BEEMER: You can't look at Borders to me as a failure of the book industry. You have to look at Borders as a failure of a retail concept.
SAVIDGE: So if borders got it wrong, then B&L Books could seem to have got it right.
JAN PACKWOOD, B&L BOOKS: This is romance. This is just regular romance.
SAVIDGE: Jan Packwood has 38,000 books and 4,000 loyal customers. Daughter, Dina (ph), manages the place.
DINA PACKWOOD, B&L BOOKS: We're here! We're here to stay!
SAVIDGE: So far, they've been around 24 years. And despite all the changes in the book business, their readers keep coming back.
Packwood says their secret is something you just can't download.
J. PACKWOOD: Customer service.
SAVIDGE (on camera): Knowing your customers?
PACKWOOD: Yes. Being able to build rapport with them, knowing what they read. And also, our customers go way back as far as -- they've grown up in the store. When they were children their mother brought them in. And then they come back and bring their children. It's sort of family like.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE: And Martin joins us now live.
Martin, how are the customers and the employees taking this news?
SAVIDGE: Well, those inside of Borders when you walk into the one that's just behind us here, actually, they're still open. There are still people going in the doors, but a much different attitude. I think sadness is the greatest feeling you get when you talk to customers inside there -- and, of course, trepidation on the part of the employees wondering what they're going to do next for a job.
KAYE: Martin Savidge -- thank you, Martin. Appreciate that.
And CNN NEWSROOM continues with Brooke Baldwin right after this very quick break.
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