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Debt Plan Faces Do-or-Die Votes; Debt Deal's Military Cuts; Markets React To Debt Deal; HSBC Bank to Cut 25,000 Jobs; Casey Anthony on Supervised Probation in Florida
Aired August 01, 2011 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Well, a deal is a deal, but it's not a law until both Houses of Congress pass it and the president, of course, signs it. And that's why the drama, anxiety and suspense is as thick as the August humidity this hour. Lawmakers are gearing up to vote on the last best chance to raise the U.S. debt ceiling before the treasury defaults on some of the government's debts and obligations as soon as tomorrow. The House is expected to vote first. The Senate and then sometime tonight.
What are they voting on? Well, I'm so glad you asked. The plan worked out over the weekend by the House and Senate leaders and the White House calls for up to $2.4 trillion in new borrowing, and slightly more in long-term spending cuts. Now the process, for all that, I want you to take a look here. It's all mapped out behind me, if you can make any sense of it, I'm not certainly even going to try to walk you through it, it's a mess.
The bottom line is this, $917 billion in spending cuts, now with a special committee in charge of finding $1.5 trillion in long-term cuts by the end of this year, the debt limit rises by $900 billion now, and $1.5 trillion next year if the equivalent spending cuts come through, or Congress passes a balanced budget amendment to the constitution. Those asterisks mean a lot. Already, there is one potential wrinkle here, the nonpartisan budget Congressional office says the plan that's fully envisioned would cut spending only by $1.5 trillion over 10 years, not $2.4 trillion plus as claimed. We are following all the developments, all the repercussions, as only CNN can.
My colleague, John King, joins me from our D.C. bureau, Christine Romans is watching from New York, and if you still don't believe this is a huge story, well look at Richard Quest, all the way from London on the doorstep of the U.S. capitol. John, I want to start with you. Tell us first how this deal came to be, and what are the prospects here that it will actually bring an end to this crisis?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: First, I want to give you some credit, you think you could explain it, you explained it about as well as it can be explained up to this point, Randi. It is a bit of a mess that was the right choice of words there. How did it come about? You know, even as we went through what we saw last week, the House voting and the House Republican plan, then that was rejected in the Democratic Senate, then the Democratic Senate plan is rejected in the Republican House, it looked like a day care center here in Washington.
Even as all that was playing out, we did know what the rough pieces of an agreement would look like and over the weekend, the Republican leader in the Senate, Mitch McConnell, worked with the White House, they came up with this framework, some other voices involved as well. The question now, and you asked the right question, can it pass? We are seeing criticism from both extremes in politics. On the left, Nancy Pelosi, the Democratic leader in the House just said, there's some things I like in this plan, but her people, especially the liberals, are upset, not one red cent was her word from wealthy Americans to contribute to this, so you will lose some liberal votes in the House.
On the right, a lot of conservatives are saying, yes, there's no tax increases in the first round, but it creates this super committee in the Congress that has to come up with this $1.5 trillion worth of cuts, and there are no guarantees there won't be revenue increases or tax increases in the second round. So, conservatives don't like it there. The question is if you peel off the far left and the far right, do you still get enough votes from everybody else to get through the House? That is why the House will go first likely sometime late this afternoon into the evening hours, then there are enough votes to pass this in the Senate, we know that, the question is will somebody try to use a filibuster, other procedural hurdles in the Senate, to at least drag that debate out. Here is one safe bet. It will start to get dark in Washington, that deadline - the midnight deadline will be approaching, and then we'll sort all this out.
KAYE: Yes, certainly, but you know, John, we hear so much about the word 'compromise', I mean, is this really the mark of a good compromise when you look at all the people that don't like it? I mean, you have the liberals hate it, the Tea Party hates it, the deficit hawks aren't real happy about it, is this really compromise?
KING: Well, there's two ways to look at that. Since the extremes - since so many people are unhappy with it, does that make it a great deal because nobody thinks it's perfect, or does it make it a really bad deal because nobody really loves it? There are two ways to look at it, and you'll hear that debate to play out this afternoon. It was the compromise that was available. The president of the United States gets, at least in the first round, almost nothing that he wanted in this.
Remember, he said it should be balanced, he said there has to be revenue increases in there, but what the president wanted most of all as a candidate for re-election next year as some one that does not want the economy to take another hit, he wanted a deal. And he was - he was willing to compromise probably more than most to get a deal. But again, Randi, you've been watching this over the last few weeks, they think they have a deal, they think they have the votes, we are at a very unpredictable time in Washington, D.C. Don't bank on it until you see the roll call.
Well John, because it's so unpredictable, we're glad that we have you for this hour hanging with us so keep it right there. Richard Quest is also with us, as I said. Is the rest of the world any less appalled, Richard, by the ways of Washington than it was on Friday?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think the rest of the world is relieved and we certainly saw that in the initial market numbers that came out from Asia and Europe. But those market gains, as you're to hear in a second or two from Christine Romans, those market gains have just about evaporated largely because of problems of manufacturing numbers here in the United States and worries about jobs in Europe. I'm afraid there are so many unknowns, and not only that, the mere uncertainty that John King eloquently was describing about today's process. What the markets and what the rest of the world wants is for this nettle to be grasped firmly and rooted out once and for all, and so far that doesn't appear to have happened - Randi.
KAYE: And what are we seeing in terms of the overseas market? Are investors calm or are they pleased with what they are seeing out of Washington?
QUEST: You know, it's denoted (ph) analogy is this, an inch think and a mile wide. Everybody was so dreading a debt ceiling crisis or default that the mere fact that they came to a deal and that we're back from the brink of that is seen as being a tremendous benefit. But I remember TARP, you remember TARP, the second that the first vote in the House that went down unexpectedly, the Dow dropped many hundreds of points. If the House decides to kick it out of the window, or the Senate, but more likely the House, then I think you're to see pretty much some very, very colorful (ph) reactions on the -
KAYE: Richard, let me stop you there because Senator Harry Reid is speaking on the Hill, let's listen to what he's saying.
(BEGIN COVERAGE)
REID: ... some on the other side, not so enthusiastic. But generally speaking people realize the situation we're in and the alternative.
This legislation is typical for compromise legislation. Neither side got what they wanted, but it's the essence of compromise. I am told the House will be voting on this sometime this evening. I am going to work to see if we can vote today. That's not all assured, but we're working on that.
It would be nice to be able to get this bill from the House and start the process. There are ways that we can work simultaneously, and I hope that we can work that out. As everybody knows here in the Senate, all this takes unanimous consent. And we are going to do everything we can to see if I can get that.
We need to send this to President Obama as soon as we can. It has been a long process. I am confident we did the right thing for the American people. The solution cuts the deficit now, lays the groundwork for Congress to do much better work in the months ahead, and clears the way for us to look up at the bright sunshine and get rid of the clouds of default that have been hanging over our country for far too long. But our work is far from done. I am hopeful and confident that we can get this done very quickly, this work -- this legislation we're working on now. But we still have to do things. Many people in Nevada and around the country are struggling for the essential -- that is, a job. And we have to move to a jobs agenda.
We need to move to that as quickly as possible. So we need to put this debate behind us as soon as we complete the legislation, and put Americans back to work.
QUESTION: Senator Reid, after this deal gets done, is there still a need for a comprehensive deficit reduction?
REID: The question is, after we get this done is there need for comprehensive deficit reduction? And the answer is not only yes, but hell yes. We not only have -- we've made a step forward and that's good. And as everyone knows, the idea of the joint committee was my proposal, I am glad that Senator McConnell has put his arms around this.
I hope that we can get something done. I was just told as I was walking out of this -- I hope it doesn't affect the vote over there today, but I was told that Representative Cantor said that he -- look, I just walked out of here, and maybe I am wrong but somebody just told me that Cantor said that revenue very well could be part of what we do with the joint committee.
So, yes, deficit is still a problem, going to be for the long term. When we started the last Congress, we found ourselves in a hole that the country has never seen before. We lost 8 million jobs with the Bush administration.
To show the difference, President Clinton created 23 million jobs. We had a surplus when he took office of $7 trillion over 10 years. We're now, because of the unpaid for wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the unpaid taxes and drug programs, we're now $14 trillion.
So, yes, we have to do a lot more on deficit reduction.
QUESTION: Senator Reid, the joint committee (OFF-MIKE)...
REID: What? Pardon me?
QUESTION: The joint committee, there has been some concerns (OFF- MIKE) both to the left and right, do you have any ideas as to who you would like to see on the committee? If not, what would be a timeline as to when we'll see (OFF-MIKE)?
REID: Senator McConnell and I have talked very briefly about this. I will be interested to see what ideas he has for his own people, the decision is totally his. But I am going to make that decision at a subsequent. I have two weeks to do it after this bill is passed. And it's extremely important that I pick people who are willing to make hard choices but are not locked in. One of my friends asked, (INAUDIBLE) he said he would like to be on the committee, but I think it doesn't bode well for me to choose somebody that the world knows how they feel about it before they go into it.
I think we had better look at other avenues, and I am going to do my best to pick three people, including the co-chair, that will work towards a solution to the long-term debt of our country.
QUESTION: Do you think anyone should be (OFF-MIKE) who voted against (OFF-MIKE)?
REID: I had not thought about that.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: No, but that should have no bearing, because people could vote against this bill and think the joint committee is still a good idea.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) do you think it will pass the Senate, this deal?
REID: Listen, I am a long time member of Congress, and I never count my votes until they are cast. So I am hopeful, but, you know, we will have to see. The Republicans are going to have to produce some votes and we are going to have to produce some votes, but I am not here to declare victory. We have to get this thing passed.
QUESTION: Leader Reid, (OFF-MIKE) are you suggesting that people who were part of previous commissions or (OFF-MIKE) or (OFF-MIKE) put their ideas out on the table should not be part of the commission?
REID: No, I was more referring to people who said the committee is a waste of time, nothing will happen there. I just think we have to go into this with people with our eyes wide open, willing to make difficult choices but yet understand the political reality of the world we are in.
QUESTION: Senator Reid...
QUESTION: Senator Reid...
REID: I think that's enough, guys. I have been standing for two hours, and I feel like I am 25 but I'm not.
(LAUGHTER) (END COVERAGE)
KAYE: And there you have it, a very tired Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, speaking there. I'd like to bring in John King who's with us in Washington, and also Christine Romans who's still with us. Christine, let me start with you, because you heard Harry Reid say, and I'm quoting here, "This clears the way to get rid of the clouds of default." True? CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It does, actually. I mean, you've got - if they do this and they get it done, default is off the table. And there who have said, Randi, as you know, that there is no way the United States government was not going to pay the interest on its bonds, and that was something that is sacred that even - no matter what, that that wasn't going to happen. And - but it's the question of a downgrade is still kind of hanging out here.
We've reached out to Moody's, Fitch, S&P, and they are not saying anything today about whether they will still be downgrade in the U.S., but a lot of big international investors are saying, the U.S. is not behaving like a AAA credit rating, behaving more like a AA, and there are still a lot of political uncertainties out there to death with.
One thing interested that Harry Reid said, the Senate majority leader, they talked about jobs. The conversation needs to start move back to jobs, and it will, I think, by Friday, and we have a jobs report expected in pre-anemic (ph). But this is a debt deal, this is a debt ceiling deal, this is a down payment on real debt reform, and bending the curve on our unsustainable deficits. This is not a jobs package, make no mistake.
KAYE: No, and what happens to the economy, and what happens to the jobs and all the people looking for work when you make more than $900 billion in immediate cuts?
ROMANS: There are programs that will be cut. There are programs that will be phased down or out. They are going to try and the (INAUDIBLE) abuse they abuse they can, but as you know, that's a lot, but it's only a little tiny piece of the pie when you look at overall government spending. There will be cuts felt probably in the military, probably in your school lunch program, maybe. I mean, who knows? Maybe the number of FDA inspectors, all of that has to be worked out, and I can guarantee you that every one of those agencies is lobbying very aggressively right now to make that they are - they don't feel the pain as badly as they fear. But $917 billion in cuts and another $1.5 trillion after that over the next 10 years as well, I mean, that's something that every family will feel.
KAYE: John king, let me turn to you. When you look at the key players here. You have, obviously, Harry Reid who just spoke, you have speaker of the House, John Boehner, President Obama, who would you say comes out the least tarnished in all this?
KING: Oh boy, that's a tough one. Mitch McConnell, the Senate Republican leader, I think that he laid back all along and said we will not default, and I will help negotiate a deal, and if they pass this, we will not default and Senator McConnell will have helped negotiate the deal. So, I think that if he is -- he is the person who has, in terms of investment in this deal, been consistent throughout the process, I think you would have to say Senator McConnell. As I say that though, Senator McConnell is an establishment conservative Republican, some of the grassroots of his party, his own Republican party, the Tea Party, they don't like Mitch McConnell, so he will catch a lot of harpoons (ph) here, he will probably come out least tarnished in the immediate. He will probably come out least tarnished in the immediate. The president's bat (ph), Randi, is that maybe he takes some heat now, maybe liberals don't like this, maybe liberals say, Mr. President, you said there would be revenues in this deal. There's no guarantee of revenues in this deal. What the president is hoping for is just what Christine talked about, that the markets rebounding, that, yes, there will be a loss of some government jobs here.
The big bet here is that the private sector will say, finally they got along in Washington, finally they gave us some certainty and the private sector starts creating jobs. That is the president's biggest hope. Both as the president of the United States, someone who would like the unemployed to be able to find a job, and as a candidate for re-election, because he is going to be campaigning for re- election, trying to do something that has never been done before. No incumbent president has ever won reelection in this country since FDR with unemployment above 7.2 percent. It is a guaranteed fact. We don't know exactly what the number will be, but there is no way it's going to get from 9.2, where it is now, down below 7.2 by the time this president runs for re-election. The last thing he needs is another hit on the economy. That's why he wants this deal, even if he has to give a lot to get it.
KAYE: All right, John King, it's great to have you with us this hour. I know we're going to check back with you in just a little while. So, thank you very much.
And also, of course, we're waiting for House Speaker John Boehner. He should be coming up to speak here in just about 14 or 15 minutes at about 1:30 Eastern Time. We'll hear what he has to say about the current deal that's on the table.
Up next, though, the very real possibility that military cuts could happen automatically as part of the debt deal. We will explain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: If the debt deal being debated in Congress is passed, members of the U.S. military won't have to worry about getting paid, they will continue to get a paycheck, but that doesn't mean military programs are off the chopping block. In fact, according to this deal, there's actually a possibility of automatic cuts down the road if a panel created to come up with more cuts can't reach an agreement. It's part of the deal's so-called trigger mechanism.
Joining me now from Washington is Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr, and from Los Alamitos, California, Sandra Endo. She's at a homecoming ceremony for California National Guard's 140th Aviation Battalion.
Barbara, let me start with you here. Tell us how the military would be affected by this deal in Congress.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Randi, you're absolutely right. Late last week there was massive concerns amongst the troops that they might miss a paycheck if Congress didn't act. Now that Congress is appearing to act and the president will sign this into law, that will calm some of that immediate concern down. But what they are facing here at the Pentagon is some $350 billion in defense -- Pentagon spending cuts over the next decade.
That's not all that different, actually, than what they had already been ordered to come up with by the White House. But hanging out there in the future is this notion of a $1.2 trillion across the board cut. The Pentagon would be responsible for half of that. Some $500 billion if the Congress cannot agree on how to get through this deficit reduction problem over the long term. If it comes to another $500 billion in Pentagon spending cuts, that's the problem commanders say they can't have across the board cuts they contend of that depth right now. It might be a real problem for the force.
Randi.
KAYE: All right, Barbara, thank you.
Now let's head west. I want to turn to Sandra Endo, now at a troop homecoming ceremony in Los Alamitos, California.
Sandra, what is the reaction there today to today's possible deal?
SANDRA ENDO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Randi, first off, very touching, emotional reunions as 200 the men and women return from their yearlong deployment in Iraq. And I have to say, to be honest, talking to them, they have not been up-to-date on what's going on in Washington, obviously. They have a very important mission to accomplish. They came home today, wanted to reunite with their family members and very heartfelt emotions.
But clearly there's concern because they're coming home to the announcement of a deal of possible cuts, as Barbara outlined. And I'm joined now by a group of veterans who -- you guys have been keeping up on what's going on in Washington. What do you think of the proposed cuts to the defense budget?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I'm -- from what I understand, the cuts aren't really as deep as they appear because they're counting on the money that's going to be reduced anyway when we pull back from the war.
But I think we would be making a very, very poor decision if we were to do that. If you cannot protect America, then everything you have here will go away. Someone will come in and they will just take it from us.
ENDO: Yes, obviously it's too soon now to know exactly what cuts are going to be made. It's obviously a big proposal out there right now with the potential of $500 billion more to be cut down the road. You're kind of saying, hey, the military shouldn't be involved in trying to balance the budget.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's correct. There are much better places to cut. If we're studying a gnat to see where they go poop, we need to cut that. Those kinds of frivolous things we need to cut. Certainly the congressmen and senators don't want to do that because that's how they get re-elected, by sending money back home. But they have to start thinking about the country as a whole and not about their individual wants or needs.
ENDO: So you're sick of this whole political fight in Washington?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty much. As I view it, our president has the leadership skills of a one-week veteran of the Marine Corp.
ENDO: All right, well pretty strong emotions there, obviously. A lot of different opinions here, Randi, as troops come home after their deployment. But clearly the concern is out there and they're just waiting to see the details of those defense cuts.
Randi.
KAYE: Sandra End. Thank you, Sandra, very much.
So, how is Wall Street reacting to the debt deal? We will check in right after the break.
And, of course, we are still waiting for House Speaker John Boehner to come out and make some comments. We heard from Senator Harry Reid just a few moments ago. And we'll see what Mr. Boehner has to say as soon as he takes that podium here. In just about seven minutes or so, we're expecting to see him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: We are covering all angles of the debt deal today. Last week, U.S. stocks didn't react well to all the uncertainty, you may recall. They delivered their worst weekly performance in over a year. All three major indices fell about 4 percent and $700 billion in market capitalization was lost. Alison Kosik joins me now from the New York Stock Exchange.
Hello, Alison. How are the markets reacting today?
ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Randi.
We are in the negative column. The Dow down 94 points. You know what, at the open we had a really strong open. That's thanks to the pending debt deal. We saw the Dow pop 120 points. But then the Dow pulled back shortly after the opening bell because of a much weaker than expected manufacturing reading. What it shows is that we had practically no growth last month. So, yes, investors are happy about the pending debt deal, but these other signs showing the weakness in the overall economy, that's what's weighing on the markets today.
Randi.
KAYE: Do you think investors are looking at this as a little too late?
KOSIK: Yu know what, analysts say that any gains that we see related to a debt deal could be short lived and, yes, you know what, this really has really hurt confidence overall because it's taken so long for, you know, lawmakers to get their act together. And, you know, there's a lot of worry that this has reached real deep into the economy. It certainly held back companies from hiring and kept Americans holding back their spending because they just didn't know what was going to be happening.
Randi.
KAYE: And what areas would you say, Alison, have actually been hit the worst here?
KOSIK: You know what, believe it or not, the travel industry is pretty worried about it because people are going to hold back on traveling. You know, everyone's going to be staying home. Small businesses would be even harder hit. Lack of spending could take a big bite out of their bottom line. And also railroads may be hurt. And if companies stopped buying big products, like lumber, that need to be shipped across the country as well. So you see sort of this domino affect just because Washington, D.C., dragged its heals, dragged its feet on a debt ceiling deal.
Randi.
KAYE: Yes. And we've talked so much, too, about this possible downgrade, if the U.S. doesn't hit its $4 trillion mark. Certainly none of the numbers say $4 trillion to many of us.
KOSIK: Exactly.
KAYE: Are investors worried, do you think, about still this possible downgrade that's looming out there?
KOSIK: There is a worry. You know what, S&P, Standard & Poor's, especially made it no secret that a deal does not mean that the U.S. is out of the woods. You know that it may still downgrade the country's pristine AAA rating. I talked to one trader earlier who told me, you know, he thinks that it's too late for S&P not to downgrade. And, actually, S&P wanted to see much bigger cuts than lawmakers have come up with. And even with an agreement, the long term outlook is still a big concern to the agency. But you have to remember that a downgrade is not the same thing as default, which is much, much worse. And that's what's most important to investors today. The reason we are seeing stocks in the red is because of this weak manufacturing report that we got.
Randi.
KAYE: Alison Kosik there at the New York Stock Exchange. Alison, thank you very much.
So a possible break in one of the oldest open cases in FBI history. The search for D.B. Cooper. We'll tell you all about the new evidence next as we sit and wait for House Speaker John Boehner to take that podium. That's a live picture. We'll wait for his words on the debt ceiling negotiations. We know that the House Republicans are meeting, the Democrats are meeting. A lot happening on Capitol Hill. We have our reporters all over it there. We'll bring you the very latest as soon as it happens.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: Once again, we want to remind you, we are waiting for House Speaker John Boehner. He's expected to take that podium there any minute now to tell us what his thoughts on the current deal, on the debt ceiling that is on the table.
Of course, the deal calls for the $2.4 trillion in savings over the next decade and it does needs to reach President Obama's desk by Tuesday night. We'll see what he has to say. We will bring it to you live as soon as he starts to speak there at the podium there.
Now, let me tell you about this story. It is one of the most talked about crimes in American history, the hijacking and escape of DB Cooper. We're coming up on the 40th anniversary later this year. But now, the FBI says they've got new evidence in the investigation. It's an item that they've sent to the FBI lab in Quantico, Virginia, to check out.
They're looking at the fingerprints that may match the few prints left behind when a man jumped out of an airliner and into history. It was the night before Thanksgiving, way back in 1971, when a man calling himself Dan Cooper boarded a plane from Portland to Seattle, he hijacked the plate with a note that said he had a bomb in his briefcase. They landed in Seattle, he let the other passengers off in exchange for the FBI handing over $200,000 and four parachutes.
Then, they take off again. Around 30 minutes later, over rural Oregon, the man put on the parachute and jumped out of the plane, never to be seen again. But the crew didn't realize he was really gone until they landed in Reno, Nevada. Like I said, the man called himself Dan Cooper. Investigators went to the house of a man named DB Cooper who lived in Portland at the time, he was cleared but for some reason the name stuck in the public's mind.
There have been numerous books and songs about the saga. In 1980, a kid actually found some of the money buried on a beach near Vancouver -- $6,000 and a parachute, but that was all. Not a single other clue. Some believe the hijacker died during the jump. The FBI lists the case as open but not active. But this new evidence, certainly very active.
Interestingly, this new revelation comes from an article in "The Telegraph" newspaper out of the UK. A reporter from the paper was talking to the agent who handles Cooper inquiries out of the Seattle office. She told them they had this new suspect they had never looked at before and said their evidence was their most promising lead to date. That agent said she thought the article wouldn't be published until the anniversary in November, so seeing it now may have caught them just a little bit off guard.
So we will just have to wait and see on the fingerprints being examined in Virginia. Maybe they match the ones taken from the plane in 1971 or maybe they don't. Either way, the DB Cooper story will live on for sure in American folklore.
Today, Minnesota is remembering the victims of an event that took the lives of 13 people. We'll have much more on this right after the break.
And, of course, we're waiting for House Speaker John Boehner to take the podium there and tell us the very latest on negotiations and a possible vote today on raising the debt ceiling and cutting the deficit. We'll let you know as soon as he starts to speak.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: Thirty-eight minutes past the hour. Let's check some of the news and some other headlines that you may have missed today.
President Obama and congressional leaders have agreed to a plan that would raise the nation's credit limit. But in order to avoid an unprecedented default on the national debt, Congress has to approve it today. The Democratic official involved in the effort to secure votes for the deal says there is more concern about the vote tally in the House than the Senate.
There's a new report about the man who admitted staging last month's Norway terror attack. Britain Sunday Telegraph says Anders Breivik used eBay to by supplies to make explosives. He also reportedly used the internet web site to order a drill press vice (ph), a full-faced respirator and a hazmat suit. Breivik mentions eBay repeatedly in his 1,500 page manifesto, even saying, quote, "EBay is your friend."
Banking giant HSBC says it will cut 25,000 more jobs around the world even though profits are up. These new cuts come on top of thousands of cuts already underway. The banking company was not specific about where the new cuts will take place, but it did say it will be selling 195 U.S. branches to First Niagara Bank. The job cuts will be taking place between now and 2013. They're part of the plan to save the bank around $3 billion.
Minnesota today is remembering the victims of the I-35 West bridge collapse. That was four years ago today. Governor Mark Dayton requests the flags at the state capital be lowered as a tribute to the 13 people who died and 145 injured. A memorial garden will be dedicated later today.
And Casey Anthony may not be able to hide from reporters much longer. A Florida judge signed court documents today requiring Anthony to serve one year of supervised probation in Orlando for check fraud. The judge said that she should be reporting to probation officers within 72 hours. Check fraud case is unrelated to Anthony's recent murder trial. Last month, the jury found her not guilty of killing her daughter Caylee.
It is the network that has brought you the "Jersey Shore," "Teen Mom," and even some music, too. Yes, that's right. We are talking about MTV celebrating its 30th anniversary today. MTV launched on August 1st, 1981, at 12:01 a.m. We all remember that. The first images on the network were the launch of the Apollo 11 spacecraft, followed by a video for the Buggles song, Video Killed the Radio Star."
If Congress can't agree on specific spending cuts, why would a smaller group of lawmakers do much better? We're digging deeper on the bipartisan panel that would be created as part of the debt deal being debated today.
And once again, as we've been telling you, House Speaker John Boehner expected to take that podium truly any minute now. He's just a few minutes late. We are watching it and as soon as he starts to speak we will bring you his comments live, right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: It's dominated our headlines for weeks but this debt debate is nothing new. Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. WILLIAM GRAY (D), MAJORITY WHIP, 1985: Will there be compromising? Absolutely. I think that there will be. There has to be.
RONALD REAGAN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, 1985: The next time one of those folks gets up and complains about the deficit, they'd better have a smile on their face.
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, 1992: The deficit, the big spending deficit is a dark cloud hovering over the future of these kids.
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, 1996: You have to get the debt down because the interest payments eat you alive.
REP. NEWT GINGRICH (R), HOUSE SPEAKER, 1997: Interest now cost more than the Defense Department. So literally you will pay more taxes when you go out and get a job just to pay interest on the debt than you'll to defend the country.
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK, 2003: The president has asked Congress to raise our nation's debt limit by nearly $1 trillion. They don't want a debt limit, they want unlimited debt.
GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My budget will maintain strict discipline in the spending of tax dollars and keep our commitment to cutting the deficit in half over five years.
SEN. HARRY REID (D), MINORITY LEADER: The Bush plan would take our already record high $4.3 trillion debt and put us another $2 trillion in the red.
(END VIDEO CLIP) KAYE: Boy, that looks all too familiar, doesn't it? Well, it is not a done deal yet but if Congress passes the debt plan negotiated over the weekend, it will essentially take effect in two stages.
First, the debt ceiling will be raised immediately so the U.S. doesn't default tomorrow. And about $1 trillion of spending will be cut right away.
Then, and this is what we want to dig deeper on here, a bipartisan committee of Congress, will be created to come up with a plan by the end of November for even more cuts. Congress will vote on it and if it passes, the debt ceiling will be raised again.
Joining me now for much more on this committee is CNN chief national correspondent John King, the host of "JOHN KING USA" as well. John, good to see you again. Tell us about this committee. Who do we expect will be on it, and how will they be chosen?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they will be chosen by the leadership, Randi. It's 12 members. The speaker of the House chooses three, the Democratic leader chooses three, the Democratic majority leader in the Senate chooses three, and the Republican leader of the Senate chooses three.
Now, you just heard Harry Reid in the last hour saying he'll make that choice down the road. He gets two weeks. Each of the leaders gets two weeks once this deal, if it passes, tonight or early tomorrow. And they get two weeks to name the members.
You would you think they would put on the panels, people who would want additional spending cuts, people from the Budget committee or people from the Appropriations committee. But you will hear a lot of people say in the next 24 hours pass this compromise, and we will set this aside this fierce political debate until after the next presidential election. Don't believe that part.
When this super-committee gets together, all of this is going to be stirred up again. Because the Republicans say they want six members who will hold the line, no tax increases. The Democrats say, well, there is no tax increases in the first installment, $19 billion in cuts, about $900 billion in new borrowing ability for the government. The Democrats want some tax increases, some revenue increases in the second part.
So, you will have six and six. Six Democrats, six Republicans, and they have to negotiate a deal. And then, Randi, when it comes out of that committee, assuming they get a deal, and that won't be easy to get agreement, then Congress has to vote up or down. They cannot amend it. It cannot come to the floor of the House, the floor of the Senate and change. You vote yea or nay.
KAYE: But when you think about this committee, John, and the work that it has to do, I mean, a lot of people might look at this and say, well, this is just putting off the key decisions, the big decision, and we will just be deadlocked again in December. Is there any way to get around it? KING: There's no way to get around it now because it's a negotiated part of this deal. So, if they pass this deal, this will be the next step in deficit reduction.
And think of the calendar you just outlined Their goal is to come up with recommendations to the Congress sometime around Thanksgiving, So then in December, they are having this vote. If you don't think that's going to involve huge politics -- already today, Randi, people on the left coming out against this idea because they say it's a recipe to have Social Security and Medicare cuts. People on the right saying it's a recipe to have either big tax increases or defense cuts or both. Already we're seeing the politics.
Imagine when they come forward with their recommendations, Thanksgiving, December of this year, which happens to be, what? Oh, a couple weeks away from the Iowa caucuses, and a couple weeks away from the 2012 and a presidential election. Anybody that tells you this compromise is going to turn the volume down on the politics here is crazy. It might turn down the volume down for a couple weeks, but that's about it.
KAYE: Why do you think President Obama agreed to this? Because last night he came out and said he wishes he could have made the tough choices on entitlement reform and tax reform right now. So, why would he have agreed to put this off? Did he not have a choice?
KAYE: It's the best deal he could get at this moment. The Republicans did not want to give the big crease in the debt ceiling, $2.4 trillion, $2.5 trillion. Let's deal with this next in 2013. They wanted to see a first round of cuts, then they want to see a second round of cuts.
And look, let's be honest. They also hope that when they get the second -- when that committee, that super committee is meeting closer to a presidential election, if the Democrats on the committee are hung up because they want bigger tax increases, a Democratic president running for re-election, does he want to be running on a proposal that says, re-elect me, I want to raise your taxes.
And so they think President Obama, the Republicans do, will pressure the Democrats on the committee, if you are going to have tax increases, make them modest, make them politically sellable and only if you can get it through the committee.
So, the Republicans think the timing of having the second phase could work, could work to their advantage. Now, when I say Republicans, I'm talking about Speaker Boehner and Leader McConnell. Read all your e-mails, Randi, from the Heritage Foundation, Red State, people out in the conservative grassroots, they're worried about this. Nobody likes this, which I guess could be the definition of compromise.
KAYE: And just one more quick question for you. What happens if Congress rejects the whole plan? Where do we go from here?
KING: Well, if Congress rejects the plan today or tomorrow then we're dealing with the question of will we have default. How will the government decide? The government is going to take in about $172 billion in August. It will have about $306 billion in bills. The government has to make a choice if you don't get this deal passed today. If they get pass the deal, and then the committee gets locked in, there are provisions in the agreement that say if the committee cannot come up with cuts, then the Congress is supposed to act on a constitutional amendment to balance the budget and to force this down the line. We'll have to deal with that down the path, and it's pretty confusing.
KAYE: This is all very confusing. I am glad we have you with us to make sense of it. John King, thank you so much!
And a reminder, of course, that we are waiting for house speaker, John Boehner, to take to the podium. Right there you see it. We have been waiting here for just a little while. But we are expecting he will come out and speak about the debt ceiling. He told his caucus that the deal represents a sorely needed compromise, but did claim a GOP victory for the greater fiscal restraint.
We're very anxious to hear what he has to say about all this. We'll bring it to you as soon as he takes the podium. Keep it here on CNN.
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KAYE: I want to get you now to Gloria Borger who's in Washington, D.C. Watching all of these debt ceiling talks along with us.
Hi there, Gloria. First, your take on the current deal that's on the table and its chances of getting passed through both the Senate and the House.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLTICAL ANALYST: Well, I think obviously - well, I think the Senate is pretty much a done deal. I think that the House, as usual, is the place what you have to worry about.
And my mind takes me back to 2008. Remember when we're in the middle of the economic crisis and that whole T.A.R.P. bank bailout proposal came to Congress, and it failed? It was a deal that had been reached, and it failed. The market dropped 700 points. Then they had to come back the next day for a do-over. And they did it.
This time, I think House speaker Boehner's speakership is on the line again. He has got to be able to deliver votes. He doesn't have a lot of moderates in the Senate anymore, but say he has about 25 in the Senate. I presume he's going to lose about 80 conservatives, many of those freshmen. So, it's going to be interesting to see if Nancy Pelosi can give him the votes that he needs.
I was talking to a Democratic official in the administration close to the budget talks who said to me today that they're feeling, quote, "pretty good that the House will be able to deliver this vote." But nobody really knows what the final count is going to be. Maybe John Boehner will tell us something in a few moments. But he's got a tough job, Randi. Really tough job.
KAYE: Do you get the feeling, do your sources tell you, that there are negotiations under way still here to get this through?
BORGER: It's interesting. I think probably, yes. I think right now, it's all about the convincing. Because you have to convince Republicans that it is in their self-interest to get this done. There are lots of Republicans who believe it's not a good deal for them. They're word about the potential defense cuts, et cetera, et cetera.
But what John Boehner is saying to them is look, there are no tax increases in this bill. This joint committee will be able to shape it the way we want. And by the way, if the country goes into default and the House is the place that does it, they're going to get blamed and that probably wouldn't be a good thing.
So I think the speaker, at this point, has got to make the political arguments to these people that whatever you don't like, we'll be able to deal with down the road. But right now, we're up against the wall and I need your votes.
That may not be enough for lots of Republicans. But we're just going to have to wait and see. It's going to be close.
KAYE: Yes, it certainly sounds that way. Gloria Borger, we'll continue to check in with you. Thank you very much.
BORGER: Sure.
KAYE: Tanks, machine guns and snipers, all part of the latest Syrian government crackdown against anti-regime protesters. A live report on that right after this.
And we were just talking about House Speaker Boehner. We are waiting for him to start talking. He should be taking that podium this hour, any moment now, really. We're expecting him to talk about what's on the table and how his caucus feels about it. We'll bring you that comment from the House speaker right after this quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: The people will not surrender. That's the rallying cry of anti-government protesters in the Syrian city of Hama. For the second straight day today, government tanks and troops opened fire there. Human rights groups say at least four people were killed. The bloodshed far worse yesterday.
More than 70 people were killed across the country yesterday. Most died in Hama. The crackdown is the latest attempt by president Bashar al Assad to crush a four-month uprising against his government.
Arwa Damon is covering development in Lebanon and joins us now from Beirut. Arway, what do we know about the situation in Hama right now?
ARWA DAMON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Randi, it seems as if the military at some point overnight largely withdrew from the city. But then two residents who are also activists that we spoke to said that they heard tanks going off as well as what they described -- one of them described as being intense gunfire that lasted for around 20 minutes. Presumably that is what caused those casualties that we were then hearing about.
Residents also saying that even though the military had largely withdrawn, snipers continued to man positions on rooftop, which is making it incredibly difficult for people to continue to move around the city.
Yesterday doctors we were talking to at hospitals were describing how they were having to tend to the injured on the hallways because they quite simply could not handle the volume of wounded that were coming into the intensive care units. Now we're hearing about the beginnings of shortages in medical supplies and in food supplies.
Hama very much remaining a city under siege. At the same time, residents fearing another military incursion. And also, we are hearing begun to set up a makeshift barricades to try to prevent that from happening.
KAYE: Arwa Damon, thank you for the update from Beirut.
