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Indiana State Fair Reopens Today; Norway Suspect Reenacts Massacre; What Happened to Kelly Thomas?; Guatemalan Court Returns Kidnapped Child in America to Mother; American kidnapped in Pakistan; Rick Perry Enter GOP Race; Economists Point Out Benefits of Stimulus

Aired August 15, 2011 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Three days, three states, five little towns, a very big political spotlight. President Obama has just wrapped up his remarks in Cannon Falls, Minnesota, stop number one in what the White House is calling an economic bus tour.

Republicans have other names for it, of course. Mitt Romney calls it a magical misery tour. The RNC points out -- and I quote -- "It just happens to crisscross several battleground states critical to the president's reelection."

He'll be in Iowa this evening and tomorrow. Illinois on Wednesday.

Cannon Falls, just south of Minneapolis, hasn't hosted a U.S. president since Calvin Coolidge back in 1928. In his outdoor town hall, President Obama reflected on a more recent event, the U.S. credit downgrade and the issues behind it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That problem is real and the deficit problem is real. But as I said before, it is actually a manageable problem. And if you don't believe me, think about it. Even after the downgrade, the next day, when the stock markets were going haywire and everybody was thinking what's the best risk-free investment, what did they invest in? They invested in treasuries.

So the market said this is -- America is still one of our best bets. They're betting on us. And that's why you have to recognize this is not a financial crisis, although it could turn into one if we don't do anything about it. This is a political crisis. This is manageable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: A presidential road trip always comes with baggage, and Mr. Obama is weighed down with a fragile economy, an exhausting fight over debt, and now this -- take a look -- a job approval rating below 40 percent. This is from the Gallup daily tracking poll. It's never been lower.

At the same time, the anti-Obama pre-2012 campaign rhetoric has never been higher. Fresh off his seventh place finish in the Iowa Straw Poll, Mitt Romney said this today in New Hampshire --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president has set about a bus tour today going to swing states. And frankly, I think the American people would rather see him in Washington working on getting this economy going again.

He seems to be more intent on trying to save his job than to try and create jobs for the American people. I saw this morning that his approval ratings are at an all-time low for him. That is not because he's not campaigning. It's because he's not leading.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: I mentioned the Iowa poll. It was narrowly won, as you may know, by Minnesota Congresswoman Michele Bachmann, now one of three apparent front-runners for the GOP nomination. The others are Mitt Romney, despite his showing in Iowa, and the newest horse in the race, Texas Governor Rick Perry.

I spoke last hour with a Republican leader who's not running for anything but has a huge role to play in the year ahead. Reince Priebus heads the Republican National Committee, and he, too, is in Cannon Falls today, shadowing the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REINCE PRIEBUS, RNC CHAIRMAN: And that's exactly why we're in Minnesota. We're launching a dead end bus tour. We're doing new media, digital reach, commercials, radio ads, a text campaign to highlight to the American people that what this president is the king of, is not only the king of games, he's the king of debt, he's the king of failed promises, he's the king of saying one thing and doing another. And that's why we're here in Minnesota.

We're going to be in Iowa. We're going to be throughout the Midwest. And we're going to be highlighting to the American people that what this president is feeding us is a bunch of dog food, and he's trying to disguise it as some economic tour for America. It's a joke.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: The president returns to Washington Wednesday and sets out Thursday for a 10-day family vacation.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Just two days after that deadly stage collapse, the Indiana State Fair reopened today with a memorial service for the victims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): Amazing grace, how sweet the sound --

(END VIDEO CLIP) KAYE: Five people were killed and at least 40 injured when a huge gust of wind blew through the fair just minutes before the band Sugarland was supposed to take the stage. Take a look.

(SCREAMING)

KAYE: And that wasn't the only angle caught on camera. Here's another. Incredible pictures there.

Here's what one woman describes seeing as that stage collapsed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My main thing that I just remember is seeing the guy that was up in the lighting. And I just saw him completely just timbering down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: And then, of course, there are videos and pictures of all the people trying frantically to help those around him right after it happened. Many people rushing to lift up the fallen scaffolding to try to rescue people that were trapped underneath. And then working together, turning concert chairs into makeshift stretchers.

The governor of Indiana is calling what happened a freak accident, saying the focus today should be on grieving for the victims, not on looking for scapegoats. But we are learning more today about the weather at the time of the collapse and how much was actually done to keep the crowd of about 12,000 people safe.

Witnesses say the crowd was warned about severe weather right before the stage collapsed, but was also told that Sugarland would still take the stage as planned.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENN GIOE, WITNESSED STAGE COLLAPSE: They had come onto the stage and they had let us know that there was some severe weather coming our way. They were going to try to proceed with the concert.

They gave us an evacuation plan. And then they said to just hang tight, that they were going to try to continue on, and Sugarland should start in just a couple of minutes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Chad Myers joining us now with more on the weather in the area at the time.

And Chad, I understand the people in charge of the fair had been in close contact with the National Weather Service right up until this collapse.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes. Correct.

KAYE: So what happened?

MYERS: You know, the weather service put a warning on the storm about 10 minutes before the collapse happened. There was an announcement made about four minutes before the collapse happened to basically get away, to evacuate the area. And it just didn't happen. There just was not enough time.

Here's how it all happens. And this is the risk of looking at a radar when you don't know at home what you're looking at, especially if you don't have the Doppler signature to look at.

Here's where the rain was falling here, all the way down. And that's what the radar would show. It would show a big red blob right here. And I'll show you that red blob.

The problem is, when the rain hit the ground, it was like taking a bucket of water and pouring it on the ground. Well, the ground gets in the way, and so the water just goes "poof," and it goes right away from the center where the water is pouring down.

Well, the air does the same thing. When the rain pushes the air down so frantically, it will hit the ground and spread out like water hitting the ground from a hose. And so that front was about five miles ahead of where the rain was.

Let me make a dot right there. That's the fairground right there.

Here's where the weather line was. So, still, about 18 miles well west of the center of where -- now stop that right there, Dave. There we go.

I want you to look at this little tiny line. There's a tiny line of blue right through there.

That's bugs and dust and everything. That is the gust front. That's the air pushing ahead of the storm.

You could only find that if you were and the weather service was watching on the Doppler radar. Easy to find that line right there on the Doppler radar, and that's right through the center of the state fairgrounds.

Even though the weather, it looks like on the radar, is still 10 miles away, the wind was right on top of the fairgrounds, and that's when all of the bad stuff happened. It was one thing right after another.

There were plenty of warnings. There were watches from 5:30 on, all the way until about 8:30, 9:00. The warning was issued.

The stage issued the warning announcement, saying get out of the way at 45. But by 49, just four minutes later, that stage collapsed.

KAYE: Just a tragedy there.

MYERS: It was.

KAYE: Chad Myers, thank you.

MYERS: You're welcome.

KAYE: Take a look now at this haunting video. The suspect accused of killing dozens in Norway last month returned to the island where the shooting rampage took place to reenact the massacre. We look at what police chose in terms of doing this.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: We showed you this haunting video before the break. Anders Behring Breivik, the suspect accused of killing dozens in Norway last month, returned to the island where the shooting rampage took place to reenact the massacre as part of a police investigation. You can see him apparently wearing a bulletproof vest and a harness that tethers him to the police as they roam this wooded island.

Joining me now, police chief Bob Ricks.

Thanks so much, Bob, for joining us.

You were an FBI assistant special agent in charge during the Waco siege, and former FBI special agent in charge in the Oklahoma City bombing. So we're happy to talk with you. And you can share some of your expertise with us on this one.

The first question that comes to mind is, why have him -- why have this suspect, Breivik, return to the scene of the crime? Is this a usual practice?

BOB RICKS, FMR. FBI SPECIAL AGENT: I find it somewhat perplexing as to why they're doing this. We oftentimes do reenactment of crime scenes, and sometimes we even take suspects back to a scene, but usually it's for evidentiary purposes. We're trying to find perhaps where bodies are buried by serial killers, we're trying to find homes that have been burglarized by burglars when they're finally willing to cooperate. To actually take a killer such as in this case is really quite unusual.

KAYE: Why do you think they would have done this? I mean, to take him through there, apparently they spent eight hours there to watch him reenact what he allegedly did, is just very surprising to many of us.

RICKS: I think it is also. I know that they're struggling with this whole situation.

There obviously were some problems that occurred. Their response was not timely. It took them too long to get there. If this would have occurred in the United States, you would have a swarming of law enforcement from all sectors, regardless of even those in their own jurisdiction.

So I know that they're trying to kind of grasp and get a hold of this thing, and trying to get a picture of what actually occurred. There's nothing wrong with trying to gain as much information about what has happened here. The big concern I have, are you giving this person perhaps a forum in which he can continue to espouse his hatred?

And this is kind of falling a little bit into his trap. And that's exactly what these types of people generally are looking for, is more and more exposure.

KAYE: That's what I was going to ask you, because it seems if almost they may be giving him some sort of stage here. As you watch him walk around this island, he actually holds his arms up to show them how he allegedly pointed and shot people.

So that is a concern for you as well, then?

RICKS: It is a concern. We interview numerous serial killers, serial rapists. We try to find out their modus operandi, what motivated them, what caused them to do what they're doing, and what could we do to take steps to try to prevent or at least learn about techniques so that we can identify these individuals?

And I know this is probably what they're grappling with, is trying to come up with some logical explanation. And sometimes we have difficulty just seeing evil and identifying evil for being evil.

KAYE: And apparently he didn't show any emotion, according to those that were there. Does that surprise you?

RICKS: I don't think so, based on his prior statements that he's made. It does not appear that he would qualify in any way for an insanity defense. It looks like this was a cold, calculated action that he took, that he had been planning for some time, believes that he's in the right for what he did, and is typical such as a Timothy McVeigh. Up almost until the end did he express any remorse.

We have some indication Timothy McVeigh at the very end was at least coming around and showing some emotion, and at least some regret. But these people typically are so imbued with hatred, that it just is almost impossible for them to show the normal signs of emotion that you and I would express.

KAYE: Fascinating insight. Bob Ricks, thank you for your time.

And the time right now is about 20 minutes past the hour. Time to check in on some top stories that we're following.

Billionaire Warren Buffett making news today. In a "New York Times" op-ed, he essentially begs Congress to make the rich like himself pay more in taxes. Buffett, who paid nearly $7 million in federal taxes last year, says the super rich should no longer be protected like endangered spotted owls.

In a surprise deal that would be its largest acquisition ever, Google has agreed to buy Motorola Mobility for $12.5 billion. Google, the world's search leader, says it believes the mobile device maker will help it gain an even stronger foothold in the mobile marketplace. British Prime Minister David Cameron today blamed last week's riots on a "slow motion moral collapse." London police say they have arrested more than 1,500 people in charge of the violence, disorder and looting since the unrest erupted over the killing of a man during a police operation.

His alleged beating and death have ignited public outrage. The answers to why and how Kelly Thomas died could come down to the decision of a police watchdog. In a couple of minutes we'll talk to the man the city is now looking to for some answers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: We first told you about Kelly Thomas two weeks ago. We've been staying on top of the investigation into his death, allegedly at the hands of police. We want to update you now on the latest as the controversy and pressure builds for accountability.

The Fullerton City Council is now drafting up a contract to hire an independent consultant to review Thomas' alleged beating and the police department's response, along with its policies and procedures. This move comes after Thomas' parents filed a claim against the city and the police department.

The consultant called in to conduct the review, Michael Gennaco, will join us in a moment. The council is expected to vote on his contract tomorrow.

As we've been telling you, this story, this tragedy, and now investigation and review, center around Kelly Thomas. Thomas, who was 37, was homeless and schizophrenic. I want to warn you, this picture is graphic and hard to look at, but it's important that you see it.

This is Kelly Thomas. You're looking at what he looked like before and after the alleged beating by six Fullerton police officers. Take a look at that.

On July 5th, Fullerton police responded to reports of a man trying to break into cars near a bus station. Witnesses say what began with a search of Thomas' backpack ended with this: tasered multiple times, hog-tied face down, smashed against concrete, his head slammed with a flashlight. Thomas died from his injuries five days later.

And since then, Thomas' death not only has become the center of a federal and local investigation, but has ignited weekly protests outside the Fullerton Police Station. In the meantime, the city clerk says her office has received notice that residents are starting a petition to recall three elected city council members, including the mayor, and City Councilman Pat McKinley, who we spoke with on this program last week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Do you know any of the officers involved?

PAT MCKINLEY, FULLERTON CITY COUNCILMAN: Oh, I'm certain I do. I've probably hired them all.

KAYE: You hired them all, you think?

MCKINLEY: Oh, probably, I guess. Sixteen years --

KAYE: And how do you feel then considering that officers that you hired might have been involved in this, appear to have been involved in this?

MCKNLEY: Well, I'm going to guess now. I'm going to guess that there may be two that are deeply involved. The others I don't think will -- the investigation will show had any culpability.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: The six officers allegedly involved in the beating have been placed on paid administrative leave.

The police chief, Michael Sellers, took paid medical leave last week as calls for his resignation grew. Kevin Hamilton, who is stepping in as the acting police chief, says there is no cover-up and the police department is cooperating with the FBI and the district attorney's office in their investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. KEVIN HAMILTON, INTERIM CHIEF, FULLERTON POLICE: If the officers are culpable criminally, or if they're culpable internally, they are going to be held accountable. There's a notion out there that we are in some way, shape or form going to try to cover things up in the investigation or influence things with the D.A.'s office, or influence things with the FBI, or influence things with Mr. Gennaco's internal investigation. What I want the public to know is this: we are not going to influence any of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: But according to the "Los Angeles Times," the officers allegedly involved in the beating wrote their reports after police department supervisors allowed them to view a videotape of Thomas' beating.

That is just one of the things Michael Gennaco will be looking into if the Fullerton City Council approves his role as an independent consultant. He joins me now from Los Angeles.

Michael, thank you for coming on the show to talk about this.

What specifically will you look at as you start your review, assuming the city council signs off on this?

MICHAEL GENNACO, WILL CONDUCT INDEPENDENT REVIEW OF KELLY THOMAS' DEATH: Assuming we have a contract and can get started, which we will do right away once we get one, we'll be taking a broader look at this incident, taking a look at not only the incident itself, but using the incident and being informed by that incident to take a broader look at systems issues such as policies, protocols, training, the hiring practices, and the way in which this investigation began, how it was in fact investigated. That will all be looked at by our review.

KAYE: And speaking of policies, I want to ask you about these officers who allegedly were able to review the videotape of this beating before they wrote their reports. Is that unusual, or is that something that's considered standard procedure?

GENNACO: I'm not sure there is a "standard procedure" with regard to that. One of the problems with regard to video evidence is that many departments have not moved forward enough and considered what you do with a video when you have video evidence, and how you present or when you present or if you present that to witnesses.

That's something that certainly would be part of our review. And while it's premature for me to expound on that and come to a conclusion, that would be an example that's an illustration of exactly what we would be looking at. That, and a bunch of other things that I'm sure will enter into our focus.

KAYE: Have you heard of this happening before, or is that strange to you?

GENNACO: It's not strange. I have heard of it happening before. So that's one of the things that we'll be looking at.

And we'll also need to look at that with regard to whether that had an impact in the collection of evidence as it was developed. But, again, until I dig into the actual witness statements and those reports, I'm only sort of theorizing. Now, I certainly do believe that it has been identified and should have been identified and has been identified as an issue.

KAYE: Have you had a chance to see some of the video of this beating? And, if so, what are your thoughts on it?

GENNACO: I've sort of held back on actually reviewing the video, because the only thing out there is what has been portrayed in the media. But once I get a relationship, a legal relationship with the city, that would be one of the first things, of course, I would do.

KAYE: The D.A. told us that they are planning to interview a hundred witnesses. Will you plan to interview those same people, including Thomas' family.

GENNACO: We'll have to take the witnesses and the information that the D.A. has collected from the witnesses as a starting point, but because we have a broader focus, there may be additional questions that we'll be needing to ask not only the fact witnesses, but also the individuals responsible for the development of these systems that exist in the department, like training, like hiring, like the development of policies. Those are the kinds of sort of non-factual questions that we'll need to get into that aren't necessarily going to be part of the probe by the folks that are looking at criminality.

KAYE: So if you have the FBI already investigating, that's an external investigation. Then you have the D.A.'s office. What is going to be different about your investigation then?

GENNACO: Our investigation or our review will be a broader reviewer. It will take a look at not only the incident itself, but we'll be looking at it for purposes of improving and making recommendations on systems reform with regard to the way in which the city of Fullerton police department acts every day.

You know, these police officers didn't just come to work that day for the first time. Whatever they did was guided by the fact of their training, by the protocols and manual that was handed to them and a lot of other things. So what we need to do is pull that apart and see whether or not there is a better way of doing business with regard to the way in which the police are protecting the community of Fullerton.

KAYE: Just very quickly, how much weight will your findings have on the D.A. in terms of charges?

GENNACO: I think the D.A. will probably, if I was a D.A., and I used to be a prosecutor of police officers, I think they will rely on the evidence that they collect. But certainly, we will take advantage of that preliminary information as a starting point for our much broader, deeper review.

KAYE: Michael Gennaco, appreciate your time, and certainly if you can keep us up to date on what you find. Thank you.

GENNACO: We will keep you posted. Thank you.

KAYE: The race for president is taking shape with the GOP field thinning out. Who is in? Who is out? We'll have it all for you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: It' 32 minutes past the hour. Time to check the headlines and other news you may have missed.

President Obama kicking off a three-day, three-state bus tour across the Midwest. Earlier we heard him at his first town hall meeting in Cannon Falls, Minnesota, telling Americans that they need to work together to get ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You make responsible choices about you what you can afford and what you can't afford. America needs to do and can do the exact same thing. There are some programs that don't work. We should stop funding them. There is some red tape that needs to be cut, we should cut it.

But the fact of the matter is that solving our debt and deficit problems simply requires all of us to share in a little bit of sacrifice, all of us, to be willing to do a little bit more to get this country back on track.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KAYE: Later today, the president will hold a town hall meeting in Decora, Iowa. On Tuesday he heads to Fiasa, Iowa, before holding events in Atkinson and Alfa, Illinois on Wednesday.

Wolf Blitzer will sit down with President Obama in "THE SITUATION ROOM" on Tuesday. That's tomorrow at 5:00 eastern time.

In the GOP race for president, Texas Governor Rick Perry is in. Former Minnesota governor Tim Pawlenty is out. And Minnesota Representative Michele Bachmann topped the Iowa straw poll. She lead the pack with 29 percent followed by Texas Representative Ron Paul. Pawlenty came in third with 14 percent, but he says the ranking wasn't strong enough to keep him going in the race.

So with Pawlenty out, here's a look at who is in. Perry, Bachmann and Paul are all in. So is Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich, Gary Johnson, Rick Santorum, Jon Huntsman, Thad McCotter, Buddy Roemer, and Herman Cain.

The Indiana state fair reopened today with a memorial service for the people killed after a stage collapsed during a violent storm over the weekend. As you can see in this video, a wind gust took down the stage Saturday night minutes before the band Sugarland was set to perform. People in the crowd rushed to the rescue, trying to help those trapped under the stage. Look at that come down. Five people were killed, at least 40 others injured. Police say the stage collapsed minutes after a warning to concert-goers about the storm.

Protestors could disrupt the ride home for San Francisco's subway commuters today. Officials of the San Francisco Bay Area Rapid Transit system are warning riders of a protest at the Civic Center station later today. Members of the group Anonymous are organizing that demonstration. This after claiming they hacked the systems website MyBART.org on Sunday. The group acted out of response to BART cutting cell phone service at some of the stations last week. BART says it blocked service to keep potential protestors from coordinating their activities.

This New York bus driver who helped police during a hailstorm and got fired for it has been hired back. George Dau was driving a minibus with a teenage passenger and chaperone on board as a storm tore across long island. That's when Daw said he saw an unmarked police car stalled on the side of the road filling up with water. He pulled over to pick up the officers, and this act cost him his job. He was fired. Here's what he had to say on our show last week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE DAW, FIRED BUS DRIVER: When people are telling you they're police officers and they're asking for your help and they're in this situation and they're telling you they got to get to the precinct, and you're assuming that they're being called in because of this horrendous situation they're in with this bizarre storm, you know, what do you do? I did what I thought anybody would do. It's no big deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KAYE: The bus company says that Daw violated company policy but that they understand his decision to help the stranded police detectives and now applauds his instincts in doing so. Good for him.

An American kidnapped in Pakistan, a world renowned development expert abducted from his home. But why? Some answers right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: It is a kidnapping that makes no sense to Pakistani or U.S. officials. American Warren Weinstein is a world-renowned development expert who worked and lived in Pakistan for years. On Saturday, several men abducted him from his home in Lahore where this mystery begins. CNN's Reza Sayah joins us from the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, with the very latest on this. Reza, a lot of questions here. What are you hearing from officials today about this case?

REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Randi, at this point it looks like officials don't have much to go on. So a lot of mystery still surrounding this kidnapping. I don't think there's any question his family desperately wants to know if he's OK and where he is. But it seems neither Pakistani police nor the U.S. embassy here in Islamabad have any information about his condition and his whereabouts.

The only bit of new information that we received today was that Pakistani police are saying they've detained Weinstein's three security guards and his driver, but they are only been detained for questioning. They point out that they're not suspects in this kidnapping. They only want to ask him questions.

And in Pakistan the law does say that you can detain someone for up to 72 hours for questioning and we're still in that 72 hour window. Weinstein kidnapped early Saturday morning around 3:00 a.m. Assailants broke into his home, tied up his security guards, pistol whipped his driver, eventually left with him.

So at this point, Randi, the focus seems to be on the three security guards and the driver, but police point out, not because of necessarily suspects, but they seem to be the only witnesses to this kidnapping.

KAYE: He isn't new to Pakistan, Reza. He has been there for years. Was there something possibly about his work that may have made him a target?

SAYAH: It's tough to say. But he's been a long time resident of Pakistan, actually going back and forth. He's been in this region for a long time, well-traveled, he knows multiple languages. He worked for a company based in Virginia called J.E. Austin, a development company. They were involved in social and economic development, basically working to create jobs, get Pakistan's economy back on its feet.

One of the projects they were involved according to the website was Pakistani dairy farms to increase output and increase jobs. So he was doing some important work here in Pakistan and work that was funded by the U.S. government to improve relations in Pakistan and win some hearts and minds.

KAYE: Reza Sayah in Islamabad for us. Reza, thank you.

A gut-wrenching court ruling that could rip a little girl from the arms of her adoptive parents. We'll bring you that stunning story, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Advocates say she was stolen from Guatemala, kidnapped and sold to an adoption agency. But a judge's ruling may force her adoptive parents to say goodbye to her little girl. Rafael Romo brings us the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Loyda Rodriguez broke down in tears after hearing the decision. For the first time a judge in Guatemala is giving her the possibility of seeing her daughter, who she says was kidnapped.

LOYDA RODRIGUEZ, MOTHER (via translator): I have fought so hard for this. It's been almost five years, and the surprising ruling makes me very happy.

ROMO: It happened almost five years ago. Loyda Rodriguez told authorities she was arriving home in Guatemala City with her three children when a woman grabbed her then two-year-old daughter and got into a waiting taxi. The girl now six years old was apparently sold to an international adoption agency and eventually adopted by a couple in Liberty, Missouri.

RODRIGUEZ (via translator): All I want to tell them is to return my girl. I don't -- that's why I want to ask them to return her to me, because I have been suffering for five years.

ROMO: Rodriguez searched for her daughter, posting flyers, talking to officials and even staging a hunger strike at one point. Adoption reform advocates say this is an emblematic case.

USHA SMERDON, ETHICA: Just an absolute tragedy. But if something like this is what it takes for there to be real reform and oversight over the international adoption process, that portion of it is a good result. But I would never wish this on anyone.

ROMO: The American couple apparently had no idea that the girl they were adopting was kidnapped. A spokesman for the adoptive parents says "The family will continue to advocate for the safety and best interests of their legally adopted child. They remain committed to protecting their daughter from additional trauma as they pursue the truth of her past through appropriate legal channels."

MARCIE BABCOCK, LIBERTY RESIDENT: I would just have to think about like what if the situation were reversed and my only child were kidnapped. It's sad to know that somebody in our community is going through that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: Rafael Romo is joining us now. This is just such a sad story for both families involved here. So this ruling was made in Guatemala. Does it hold up here in the U.S. I guess is the question?

ROMO: It's uncharted territory when it comes to international law. I can think of at least two other cases in the past where you had an international dispute, for the example the case of Elian Gonzalez, who was brought here after she separated from the father and the boy was returned to the biological father. There was another case involving an American who married a Brazilian. The mother took the child to Brazil and eventually, when she died, the boy was returned to the United States. So internationally most of the time the children are returned to the biological parents.

In this case, however, it's so complicated because the family the United States, they thought they were doing everything under the law. They didn't know that this girl was kidnapped. And so you have two families facing a very similar tragedy.

KAYE: It is just awful to see this play out. What is the reaction in Guatemala?

ROMO: The reaction in Guatemala is that I was talking to one organization that monitors this kind of cases and they say, well, every country in the world needs to respect international laws. So what they're advocating is the United States to respect international law in this case and return the girl. But it's a lot easier said than done.

KAYE: Imagine if she has to go back. All right, Rafael Fomo, fascinating story. Thank you.

The White House says thousands of people have jobs because of the 2009 stimulus plan. But many Republicans say it was a giant waste of money. Up next, we look for answers from Professor Robert Reich, former U.S. secretary of labor under President Clinton. And you may be surprise by what he has to say.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: In 2009 a $787 billion stimulus plan was the largest one-time economic recovery effort in U.S. history and one of the most questioned decisions by President Barack Obama. The White House argues thousands of people have jobs because of it, but many Republicans say it was a giant waste of money.

Joining me now, Robert Reich, the former U.S. secretary of labor under President Clinton and current professor of public policy at the Goldman School of Public Policy at the University of California at Berkeley. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, for joining us.

ROBERT REICH, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF LABOR: Hi, Randi. KAYE: Let's get right to it. Did the stimulus plan work, do you think?

REICH: Most studies show that it saved about three million jobs -- three million that would now be unemployed are employed because of it. But the stimulus did not go nearly far enough given the size of the decline in consumer and business activity in 2008-2009, And also given the fact that the states and localities were cutting like mad, Cutting their budgets, And really basically overwhelming the impact of the stimulus.

KAYE: You say it didn't go far enough. Why do you think that is?

REICH: Because the decline from 2008 to 2009, 2010, the decline was so huge. The commerce department recently looked back on the data and revised the data. In the fourth quarter of 2008 for example, we saw a decline almost nine percent on an annualized basis. We haven't seen that since the depression. Consumer spending declined in 2009, 2010, about two percent, three percent. Again, huge. That may not sound like much, but that is huge.

Now, when consumers are not spending because they're worried about their debts, they're worried about their home values going down, they're concerned about losing jobs and their wages are dropping, and obviously the private sector is not going to create jobs without enough consumers, then the government has got to be the spender of last resort.

And this whole idea, Randi, that somehow by shrinking government we get more jobs is exactly the opposite of what mainstream economics, economic analysis, what anybody who looked at the last eight recessions -- in fact, if you include the great depression and the spending for World War II, the last nine down turns would conclude.

KAYE: When you talk about or when you think about a bigger stimulus, could we afford that now?

REICH: We could certainly afford it. We afforded it in World War II. We had by the end of World War II, our debt as a proportion to the national economy was 120 percent of the total national economy. But everybody was back to work and it laid the foundation for a huge growth in the 1950s. We would have otherwise still been mired in recession.

We do need to have, we can afford it now. Look at the ten-year Treasury bill trading at under three percent. If we want today right now, we could borrow very cheaply as a nation from international markets, put that money into all of the things that we're not doing that need repairs. I mean the deferred maintenance on highways and bridges and ports, airports, everything else. Just look around us, look at the congestion. Look what we need as a country.

I mean, there are so many people are unemployed right now, if we had a works project administration like in the New Deal, if we had a civilian conservation corps, if the government was actually having contractors go out and rebuild our infrastructure, we could put people to work. I mean, it now is the time to do it.

KAYE: What would you have advised the president on this one?

REICH: Well, I would have said to the president and I would say to the president right now, even though the Republicans are likely to oppose you, even though they're going to say no, you've got to tell the American people the truth. We are in a terrible economic fix and the only way out is through right now more government spending on infrastructure and more government spending like the WPA and the CCC, and also a government program to mitigate mortgages, to give people the opportunity to declare bankruptcy on their home mortgages so that they have an opportunity to have more bargaining leverage with lenders, with banks.

But Randi, the problem is a lot of people in the White House are saying the opposite to the president. They're saying don't do this because the Republicans will never go along. It will just look like an empty gesture. It's not going to change anything. We're getting into the election year.

To me, that is fatalism. That's resignation. That's saying there's no bully pulpit. There's no possibility of leadership. There's no possibility of leading the charge on a fight and mobilizing and energizing the country around something that must be done.

KAYE: Robert Reich, always appreciate your time, Mr. Secretary. Thank you very much.

REICH: Thank you.

KAYE: When Rick Perry announced his candidacy over the weekend, it changed the whole dynamic of the GOP presidential race. We'll have Mitt Romney's reaction next in our Political Ticker.

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KAYE: Time now for a CNN political update. The Republican presidential race is heating up now that Texas Governor Rick Perry is in the race. CNN political editor Mark Preston joining us from Washington. Mark, Mitt Romney was considered the only frontrunner until now. How is he reacting, I guess, to Rick Perry's candidacy.

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: What's interesting, Randi, is all he seems to want to talk about is the economy, the economy, the economy, which basically he's been on the same message since day one. In the couple of debates so far, he wouldn't attack any of the other candidates on the stage. All he would do is focus his sights on president Obama.

Now, when he was asked today at an event up in New Hampshire about Rick Perry getting into the race, this is what he had to say.

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MITT ROMNEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Rick Perry is now getting in. Good guy. Good governor. And he'll get a chance to be heard. We'll have a lot of debates, and we'll see where it goes.

I don't really measure the success of my campaign based on what other people are doing but instead based on whether what I'm telling folks is connecting and as seen by the American people as what America needs. So I wish Rick the very best. As the process goes on, we'll see whose background and skill most fits the need and the needs of the country at a critical time like this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PRESTON: And there you have Mitt Romney there talking about who has the appropriate background to not only be the Republican nominee but also to be the next president of the United States. He thinks it's him. He says he's got the business background to turn the economy around. I got to tell you, he was saying the same message on Friday night up in New Hampshire. That's what he's sitting home on, jobs, jobs, jobs.

KAYE: What's been the reaction to the corporations of people comment?

PRESTON: That was a dust storm we saw on Thursday when Mitt Romney was walking around the state fair. He was asked that by a Democratic activist. He said look, corporations are people too, which went over like a lead balloon for liberals and Democrats. However, he is embracing it. Mitt Romney has already put out a fundraising note. He's raised $59,000 as of this afternoon in an e-mail solicitation to Republicans, saying that he's going to stand by those words. We also expect him to put out a national direct mailer to try to raise more money. So he's trying to own it. He's not walking away, Randi.

KAYE: Doesn't sound like it, that's for. Mark Preston, appreciate, thank you.

And I want to let you know that Wolf Blitzer is interviewing President Obama one-on-one. You can see it all on Wolf's show tomorrow. "THE SITUATION ROOM" airs at 5:00 eastern, that is 2:00 pacific time, only right here on CNN.

Well, that is going to do it for me. I'll hand it over now to Brooke Baldwin. Hi there, Brooke.