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The Battle for Tripoli; Rebel Forces Gain Tripoli; Two of Gadhafi's Sons Arrested; Syrian President Offers Reforms; Gadhafi on State TV Says Will Continue Fight; Libyans Celebrate Arrival of Rebel Forces; Foreign Journalists in Libya Left in Hotel as Rebel Forces Advance
Aired August 21, 2011 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. We would like to welcome our viewers watching us around the world this hour with our breaking news coverage of developments in Libya this evening.
Rebel officials say Moammar Gadhafi's son Saif al Islam Gadhafi has been captured by rebel forces.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
GORANI: This is Sky News video from Tripoli from, our colleagues there. People on the street chanting Libya is free, Gadhafi needs to go. This all happening just moments ago. This all appears as though it is the end game for the rebels.
A spokesman for the Libyan government called for immediate negotiations and a halt to the rebel assault.
The big prize, Tripoli finally could be theirs. Rebel forces now surround the Libyan capital.
The government is conceding that parts of the city are no longer under its control. It says 1,300 people have been killed in fighting over the past 12 hours.
Now, what about Moammar Gadhafi? Where is he this hour? That's the question everyone is asking.
An audio message from Gadhafi earlier today on state TV vowed to fight until the last drop of blood. But now, there are numerous news reports out of Libya that some of Gadhafi's security forces have surrendered.
Some of the most intense fighting in Tripoli has been near the hotel where international reporters are staying.
Matthew Chance is there.
What is happening this hour, Matthew?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hala, it's still very intensive firefights on the street of Tripoli outside this hotel, but also in other areas of the city as well. We're hearing gun shots and grenade explosions coming from really all corners in the distance and some very close as well.
Yet, we have the multiple reports and rumors that are circulating about the fate of Colonel Gadhafi and why armed forces have not come out on the street. All we can tell you from this vantage point here and, obviously, our movements are very restricted by government minders and by the terrible security situation outside. All we can say is that the government is vowing that they will fight on, Gadhafi loyalists saying that they've got tens of thousands of professional troops that are committed to defending the city.
Within the past few minutes, Colonel Gadhafi has again appeared on state television here in Libya calling on his countrymen to march on Tripoli to defend the capital. So, no indication in any of the public statements that Colonel Gadhafi is -- his forces are surrendering, or any of the other rumors that have been circulating over the course of the last several hours, Hala.
GORANI: We're seeing Moussa Ibrahim, the government spokesperson, still address reporters from the Rixos Hotel where you are. What about all these government officials at the hotel? They are keeping a close eye still on what international reporters are doing. Are they still there?
CHANCE: Well, the minders that were here have largely disappeared and been replaced with security personnel. There was a sea change in the mood of this, you know, government-controlled hotel earlier on today.
Essentially, at one point, there were rumors circulating that the manager of the hotel had received a threat from the rebels that the hotel was going to be attacked. Within minutes of that, all of these government officials that were essentially using this hotel as a safe haven from NATO attacks outside, they packed up their bags, they took their family and left the hotel in a hurry, leaving us journalists here with a few other government officials like Moussa Ibrahim and his security staff.
More gunmen came in. Gadhafi loyalists, of course, and the whole mood of the hotel has changed and it's become much darker, much more tense. There are gun shots very close by. People are carrying weapons in the hotel.
You can see all of the journalists have put on their body armor and we also congregated in one area in the hope there will be safety in numbers, because outside the gates of this hotel, very close proximity again, there are fierce firefights, heavy machine guns, grenades exploding. It really does feel like the backdrop of Tripoli is being forced on the outskirts of this hotel in very -- in large areas across the city, Hala.
GORANI: Something very significant is happening in Libya today. Matthew Chance is in the Libyan capital in Tripoli, reporting on events there. Thanks very much. Do stay safe. All of our colleagues and friends at the Rixos Hotel in Tripoli there covering this story there for you.
This could be the big prize for the rebels. Will they take Tripoli tonight? It seems as though they have captured many significant neighborhoods of the capital but, there is still significant violence, gunfire occurring in Tripoli this evening. We are hearing reports of that as well.
So, nothing is said, nothing is done. We can only imagine what it's like inside Tripoli right now.
A resident joins us by phone with her perspective. We're not identifying her for her protection.
Thanks for joining us.
What is happening right now on the streets where you are in Tripoli?
RESIDENT OF TRIPOLI (via telephone): Hi. A bit earlier all of the males and men of our area -- I live downtown. They were chanting anti-Gadhafi slogans for the first time in 42 years. Finally, they feel like they're free and have some sort of freedom of speech. Right now, we hear some gun shots. Not sure where they are coming from.
A bit earlier, every one -- all of the men were outside on the streets. The women were outside from the balconies screaming, chanting anti-Gadhafi slogans and like we feel -- like it's so close. We're winning. It's the end.
GORANI: So really this is a day for you where you feel that this is it. That Tripoli will be liberated?
RESIDENT OF TRIPOLI: Exactly. I feel like it already is liberated. They just need to clean up a bit in some places, like the minority left of the Gadhafi loyalists need to be picked up. After that, that's it. We'll be in Freedom Square very soon, by Friday -- before Friday, Insha'Allah.
GORANI: Right, before Friday you are thinking. Let me ask you about the future, though. What's next? Do you have hope that what comes next for your city, Tripoli, for your country, Libya, is full of promise? Or do you think it will still be difficult?
RESIDENT OF TRIPOLI: Let me tell you, we lived 42 years of hell. Anything that's going to come after this is going to be better than what we lived in the past four decades. Anything that is going to come is going to be a lot better than what we went through. But it will be difficult and I'm not saying that it's going to be amazing and it's not going to be America tomorrow.
But it will -- we will see drastic changes in this country -- in the people and we grew to love each other. For the first time in 42 years, we feel like we're one country. Before, it was always like, oh, it's just me and my people. Now, we're loving each other. People in Tripoli are chanting for Benghazi. People in Benghazi are chanting for Zentan. People in Zentan are chanting for Misrata. And it goes on. It's like we're one united against this one person that made us live in hell for the past 42 years.
Finally, we can go out and say what we want, ask for what we deserve and get it. Right now, we can think without being shot. Before, you can't even think to yourself.
GORANI: Right. I know we're not going to say your name. But can you tell me how old you are?
RESIDENT OF TRIPOLI: I am 19.
GORANI: So you are the future of this country.
RESIDENT OF TRIPOLI: Yes, basically.
GORANI: All right. You are witnessing history for your country. Thank you so much for joining us.
RESIDENT: I am. I refuse to leave and this is not -- this is something that we've all been dreaming of forever. The second this started, everyone is o happy. It's what we've been waiting for.
We were living in fear for the past four decades. Now, all of a sudden, you can go out and say what you want, say what you feel. I can talk on the phone without being scared that they're going to come in and take me.
GORANI: Why don't you please stand by for a second? We're going to show our viewers some video that our colleagues at Sky News were able to shoot a few hours ago of people in Tripoli celebrating the rebel advance. Let's take a look.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
GORANI: So you are -- I don't know if you were able to see it, but you were able to hear it. What goes through your mind when you see celebrations like that in Tripoli?
RESIDENT OF TRIPOLI: Yes, it's amazing. Hello?
GORANI: Can you still hear me?
RESIDENT OF TRIPOLI: Yes, hi.
GORANI: What goes through your mind when you see images of people in the street tonight?
RESIDENT OF TRIPOLI: Finally -- finally, the freedom that we deserve. It's so surreal right now. It hasn't really hit me yet, like the second we hear the screaming in the streets, everyone just broke down into tears and we're all happy and screaming and we don't -- no one really knows how to react. It's just -- it's amazing.
GORANI: Thank you so much for joining us. Really good luck to you. All those young Libyans of the residents of Tripoli's generation there whose name we're not publicizing on air right now, a lot is at stake for them. This is really a turning point for Libya, and it will change the history of their country for them as they become older and as they become those who, hopefully, will have positions of responsibility in that country.
Well, the rebel offensive against Tripoli launched into high gear within the past several days. It all went very quickly. A key piece was the fall of oil town of Zawiya, which is 30 miles down the coast. You can see it there on the map we're showing you.
And Sara Sidner is there. Tell us what's going on in Zawiya right now, Sara.
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hala, you can hear the mosque blaring Allahu Akbar, "God is great." They've been doing that for the past several hours. It's something we also heard in Misrata and Benghazi during the major battles there. It went on until the battle was ultimately finished in those cities.
And so, what we're hearing is really almost a call to rise up and that we now know is happening in Tripoli.
Now, we got new information here in Zawiya. We are west of the capital Tripoli. The rebels now say the coastal road -- the important coastal road that helps supplies get directly into Tripoli, they have now cleared that road. They say they are now inside Tripoli from the west. The rebels saying they have made it into the city from the west.
That is new information that we have been able to obtain now from one of the rebels fighters at the front line, an important development. We do know the rebels were in the city on the eastern part and now, we know the rebels from this part of the country, from the western side of Tripoli have now made it into the city.
They say that they are planning on a fierce fight and are ready for it. But they have made it to the capital -- Hala.
GORANI: And the big question is, it seems as though as opposed to sort of the blood bath that was the expectation when rebels hit Tripoli, that it hasn't reached that level of violence that they are in many cases -- these rebels -- rolling in unopposed. But there still has to be some concern that it won't be so easy all the way through.
SIDNER: Yes. I think we have to be very, very careful because it is the dead of night here. We do know they were opposed just a couple of hours ago because we were going down that same coastal road just a few hours ago and we were turned back. We could hear the shells coming in from Gadhafi forces there and that was about 15 miles outside of Tripoli or exactly 25 kilometers outside of Zawiya.
So, halfway to Tripoli from here, they were opposed very strongly by Gadhafi troops, but they were able, in the last several hours, to push them out of that area, to push the Gadhafi forces back into Tripoli. What we do not know at this point in time, Hala, is what they could face in the next few hours. You see, with these battles sometimes there's a lull in the fighting. There's literally no fighting for a while and then, all of a sudden, it gets very, very intense very, very quickly.
We don't know what Gadhafi regime has in store for those who make it into Tripoli. We don't know how many rebels have gotten into the city. We don't know how many more may be coming behind them. They are very careful with their numbers as anyone would be for the defensive and offensive strategy. But we do know they made it into the city and that's a significant, significant development because they've now gone from the west and from the east into Tripoli and they said they wanted to surround it. It sounds like that is what they're doing at this time, Hala.
And this road from Zawiya and Tripoli and other roads leading into Tripoli, I imagine that these roads are essentially full of traffic, of rebel convoys heading into the capital. Is there morale right now, their enthusiasm for this battle at its highest that you've seen?
SIDNER: Absolutely. It's out of control the way they are feeling at this point in time. We've seen a lot of celebrations today. We heard them this evening. Lots of celebrations even fireworks coming from the city center here in Zawiya.
We are now hearing children even saying that we are the children of Libya. We're hearing the chants from the homes where we are in a residential area. We're hearing gunfire, celebratory gunfire throughout the night. We are seeing fireworks. We are hearing what sounds like women chanting as well.
So, there's definitely a sense that this is the end game. This is the final battle. But we all should be very cautious and careful not to say final battle when we don't know what the Gadhafi regime has in store, if anything, for the rebels who make it into the city.
This fight, the rebels were expecting it to be extremely fierce and perhaps bloody, depending on whether or not they got support from inside of Tripoli. The rebels are hoping that there's great support for themselves, great support to oust Moammar Gadhafi. But they just don't know at this time. They are going in the city.
But as you heard from Matthew Chance, there are a lot of blasts, booms and gunfire going on in that city, and it's dark. So, it's very difficult to tell where exactly it's coming from, which side is battling which side, whether it's Gadhafi forces or people shooting in the air. So, a lot of questions in the dead of night.
But, certainly, the rebels are feeling like this is coming close to the end of the regime and they are ready to try to finish it off as fast as they can -- Hala.
GORANI: Sara Sidner is in Zawiya, Matthew Chance in Tripoli. We have teams on the ground covering these fast moving developments in Libya. This could be day one for the rebels or it could be a fierce battle in store for these revolutionaries as they enter the capital Tripoli.
We'll continue to follow developments from Libya after a break, and we'll also bring you up to date on what may become the Atlantic's first hurricane of the season -- and a warning to anyone living along the U.S. coast that this could impact you.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: If you are just joining us, everyone, welcome. We're live on CNN and CNN international.
Breaking news out of Libya this hour: Rebel officials say that Gadhafi's son Saif al-Islam Gadhafi has been captured by rebel forces. Those forces now surround the Libyan capital and are moving into the city. This could be a significant development for rebels who could capture the city any time now.
However, we must be very careful. There is still fighting reported in other neighborhoods of Tripoli. This is not a done deal for the rebels.
Now, just moments ago, a spokesman for the Libyan government called for immediate negotiations and a halt to the rebel assault.
With me now, Sameh Abdelaziz, he's an Egyptian American who's lived in Libya, who has some contacts with the rebel movement.
Have you heard from rebel elements in Libya in the last few hours, as far as what's happening now and the significance of what's going on in Libya right now?
SAMEH ABDELAZIZ, EGYPTIAN-AMERICAN WHO HAS LIVED IN LIBYA: Hello, Hala. Thanks once again for inviting me.
GORANI: Sure.
ABDELAZIZ: I received a phone call actually yesterday in the morning from a very good friend of mine that I asked him to join me on previous interview on CNN, Ali Gibrel (ph). He's currently joining the rebels and he was moving with them towards Tripoli. That was yesterday morning.
GORANI: What was their mood yesterday morning? Because now we know what's happening, and we see the fast moving developments in the capital. But yesterday morning, were they full of that enthusiasm that this mission, their mission, could be completed?
ABDELAZIZ: Actually, to answer your question, I believe the best way is to tell you a little bit about Ali Gibrel, the person that is over there. He left Libya 30 years ago. This is his first time going back to Libya.
You can imagine the enthusiasm and how happy he was. He felt he is going to really make a difference along with all of the rebels that have been fighting for the last six months.
GORANI: Let me ask you, he'd left Libya 30 years ago. But when he saw the protests against Moammar Gadhafi, he thought to himself this is the time to go back?
ABDELAZIZ: Actually, for the last six months, the Libyan community and the United States as a whole have been working very hard, along with others that are looking for great change in the Arab world as a whole and Libya, specifically so they organize themselves and several of them left and went to Libya about a month ago.
GORANI: Sameh, let me ask you this. You're Egyptian originally. You have lived in Libya. So, you know many Arab Americans.
And for our U.S. audience, this might be interesting as well. What goes through your mind when you see these regimes, one after the other, fall, who have been in power for decades? Dictators who have been autocratic rulers who ruled over their countrymen and women for decades with an iron fist?
ABDELAZIZ: This is a wonderful question, Hala. My generation saw a lot of hopes being dashed over the years. Many of us left our countries. Many of us believed that our mother countries could have had much better opportunities for its own people and could play better role in the international community. However, these autocratic regimes really have been killing these hopes and dashing them over the years.
Now, today, I can say I have never been more inspired and never been more optimistic. I know it is messy. I know it will take time. However, this is hope -- we never had hope for the last 30, 40 years.
GORANI: You talk of your generation.
ABDELAZIZ: Yes.
GORANI: And these are the young -- Egypt, it was young kids and it wasn't your generation.
ABDELAZIZ: It was not. And this is the amazing story that I think that our generation almost gave up.
I was visiting Egypt several months ago and a friend of mine was telling me, you know, Sameh, I was starting to convince myself that Gamal Mubarak is OK. Convince myself. This is what our --
GORANI: Gamal Mubarak, the son of Hosni Mubarak who was the heir apparent of many in Egypt.
ABDELAZIZ: Exactly.
GORANI: Your friend was saying I was trying to convince myself that would be OK.
ABDELAZIZ: That shows you that our generation was about to give up. These kids really did what we couldn't imagine through the new media, through their ability to communicate with other people across the world. They did something beautiful.
GORANI: Sameh Abdelaziz, thanks so much for joining us. It's nice to hear the voice of an Arab man who has immigrated to the United States, watching all of this unfold in the country he comes from and in a region he comes from, too. Thanks so much.
ABDELAZIZ: Thank you.
GORANI: We're going to take a short break.
Our senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman, who spend months covering the Arab uprisings and many weeks in Libya as well, is going to join me live after a short break.
Stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Welcome back to our continuing coverage of breaking news out of Libya. Five months into the NATO air strike campaign to protect civilians but also to help rebels reach their big prize, Tripoli -- it appears as though they are making huge gains.
Ben Wedeman has been inside Libya in Tripoli, Benghazi, in Zawiya. He is in Cairo and joins us on the phone.
When you see this rebel advance, reports of these rebel advances into Tripoli, what goes through your mind, Ben?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): The incredible progress that's been made, I remember when we went into Libya six months ago almost to the day, there was an expectation that the Gadhafi regime was in free-fall. What we saw in the subsequent six months was really a difficult and long struggle by the rebels against the Gadhafi regime and a struggle to organize themselves, because initially, they had a lot of enthusiasm and a lot of determination to bring down the regime but very little in the way of organizational ability, weapons, battlefield experience.
And we've seen over the last six months that they have gained all of that and, really, the fruit of that is apparent on our TV screens right now -- this dramatic push toward Tripoli. There is so much talk about an inevitable blood bath in the capital. And, of course, there have been casualties over the last 24 to 48 hours in Tripoli. But certainly, what we've seen is it appears just an evaporation to some extent of what was one of the Arab world's most enduring regimes -- Hala.
GORANI: Right. Since 1969, Moammar Gadhafi in power in Libya. He took power as a result of a coup. Right now, it appears as though his days, if not his hours are numbered.
Let's talk about rebel advance and the NATO airstrike as well. This is an entirely different battle, Ben. This isn't a battle that NATO can help with. Street to street Tripoli fighting. I mean, this could get extremely bloody. WEDEMAN: Certainly. We need to realize that there are people who until now support Moammar Gadhafi. But I think what we are seeing right now is a tipping point has been reached that many of the people who had supported Moammar Gadhafi until now have come to the realization that this is a man on his way out. He's falling. His regime is collapsing. And whether they liked him or not, I think the realization is that there is nothing to be gained by remaining with the collapsing regime.
As far as NATO is concerned, we have seen really a change in their approach over the last few weeks. I think as a result of mounting political pressure on the main NATO participants in this operation, particularly France and Italy, there seems to be desire to get this thing done and over with. Initially, the mandate and, of course, until now the mandate is to protect Libyan civilians but it also appears that they decided that they just simply have to play the kind of close air support role that the rebels were calling for all along.
But now that they are in the city itself in Tripoli, there is not really much NATO can do. This is really a fight between the pro and anti-Gadhafi forces -- Hala.
GORANI: I have one more question for you, but I just want to update viewers on news coming in from our producer, Karim Qatar (ph), who is, I believe, in western Libya. The rebel spokesman for the military council of the western mountain region telling CNN, "We confirm the arrest of Saif al Islam and Sadi (ph) Gadhafi in Tripoli," his brother, so two of Moammar Gadhafi's sons apparently captured by rebel forces in Libya.
I want to ask you not just about the fighting here, Ben, but about really the political organization of this rebel -- government. Once they take control, then what?
WEDEMAN: Of course, that's the big question. We've seen that this is very much -- even though it's a countrywide rebellion against the rule of Moammar Gadhafi, in every area, it's a local initiative. And Libyans seem to be very focused on their town, on their region. It's -- we've seen gradually that the various parts of Libya that under rebel control, the western mountains, Misrata, Benghazi and that area, it's been a slow process where they've learned to coordinate. Because initially, each town would rise up against Moammar Gadhafi and do what they could to expel his forces from the towns, from the regions, but there was very little in the way of communications and cooperation between the different areas. We've seen that they have developed a modicum of communications. The question is, can they form a national government, a transitional government that will represent as many Libyans as possible. because there will be those Libyans who will remain loyal to Moammar Gadhafi in much the same way, for instance, some Iraqis remained loyal to Saddam Hussein.
GORANI: Let me ask you quickly about Syria. The president of Syria gave a, quote, unquote, "interview" to two journalists on Syrian television today, saying he's not going anywhere, saying nothing Western powers can ask him to do will have any impact, promising reforms and committees and reworking of legislation. This all plays into the Arab uprising story, Ben. One can imagine the Syrian president probably watching television right now and watching Tripoli fall to the hands of rebels.
WEDEMAN: Yes, well, this is what we're seeing is sort of the harder nuts in the Arab world to crack are beginning to crack. Moammar Gadhafi, Bashad Alota (ph), these were hard regimes, hard regimes to resist and hard regimes to bring down.
In retrospect, if you look at Egypt, if you look at Tunisia, these were governments tied to the West who received political and economic and military support from the West. And the West had a lot of strings to pull, so to speak, in the cases of Tunisia and Egypt. But in the case of Syria and Libya, it's very much -- of course, in the case of Libya, NATO played a huge role in making this possible. But at the end of the day, it's the Libyans who did it and the Libyans who are doing it at the moment.
And certainly leaders like Bashar al Assad would like to point to Western pressure but the real pressure it's not from the West. The pressure is from the streets of homes in Lepo (ph) and Damascus and Latakia -- Hala?
GORANI: It's the people of these countries who are doing the work. It's those people who go out, despite the fact that it is dangerous, that it is often deadly for them, who continue to demonstrate against the regimes, these fast-moving developments in Libya, in Syria, in other parts of the Arab world.
We'll continue to keep our eye on it and bring you the latest headlines in two minutes. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Welcome back, everyone. We continue to cover the breaking news out of Libya. Rebels advancing into Tripoli, the big prize for revolutionaries in Libya, in their sights and within their grasp. We're hearing reports that are coming to us from rebel organizations in western Libya that two of Moammar Gadhafi's sons have been arrested by the rebels, including Saif al Islam.
It's now half past midnight in Libya. That is where we're following our breaking news.
Now just a recap. Rebel officials say two of the sons of Moammar Gadhafi have been captured. This is Sadi Gadhafi and Saif al Islam, captured by rebel forces.
Take a look at these images.
(SHOUTING)
GORANI: This is "Sky News" video from Tripoli. People on the street are chanting "Libya is free, Gadhafi needs to go."
Just moments ago, a spokesman for the Libyan government called for immediate negotiations and a halt to the rebel assault. Now, those forces surround the Libyan capital now. The government is conceding that parts of the capital city are no longer under its control.
Moussa Ibrahim, this is a government spokesperson that we've been used to seeing over the last several months in this Tripoli hotel, housing most of the international reporters covering the Libyan conflict from Tripoli, said that 1,300 people have been killed in fighting over the last 12 hours.
And where is Moammar Gadhafi? That is the big question right now, this man who has ruled Libya for 42 years. There was an audio message from Gadhafi earlier on today state TV. He vowed to fight to the last drop of blood. But there are numerous news reports out of Libya that some of Gadhafi's security forces have resigned.
We now have another resident in Libya on the phone. Bassem al Mansouri is in Janzour.
I understand, Bassem, that you are really only about 15, 17 kilometers to the west of Tripoli. What have you seen over the last few hours?
BASSEM AL MANSOURI, LIBYAN RESIDENT: I just came back home from outside. I was cruising around through Janlor (ph) and Saraj (ph), which is the area closest to Tripoli than Janzour. Everything is fine. People are happy. They said that have never been this happy before. Now revolutionaries along with residents in those areas are doing checkpoints to keep -- make sure things are safe. Because, as you know, Gadhafi had thrown a lot of weapons in the streets in the past six months. And now it's an effort to keep the residents safe and their belongings, so they are doing that while everyone is celebrating. Everyone is on the streets. They're waving the flag. They are happy. Everything is just fine.
GORANI: So people in Janzour, where you are, on the outskirts of Tripoli, we're talking for U.S. viewers -- I'm trying to quickly convert 17 kilometers into miles, but basically eight or nine miles from Tripoli, so it's like a suburb of the capital city. People are right now celebrating at half past midnight?
MANSOURI: We've been celebrating since, I think, 8:00 p.m. And because around that time, we were just being liberated by the revolutionaries and then we heard the speakers asking us to -- or telling us it's OK to come out. And we went out and we exchanged hugs because we were really happy that they are there -- they are here finally. And we went together to the power station, which is 18 kilometers west of Tripoli. It's a really famous power station. We went to it and had a big celebration there. And we saw a lot of revolutionary people coming, going towards Tripoli to liberate it as well. And we had the happiest times of our lives there.
GORANI: The happiest time of your life today, Bassem?
MANSOURI: Yes. Because I was born when Gadhafi was in power and I have never seen anything different about Libya in my life. And I've always dreamed of something different in Libya. And now this is it. So this is the happiest time in my life basically.
GORANI: These revolutionaries, the rebels, whatever you call them, are you hopeful -- do you trust that they are going to lead the country, that they will -- well, that it will become a Democratic country, that it will reach its full potential, or if you look at what's going on in Egypt or elsewhere, do you have doubts?
MANSOURI: Well, I will tell you something. The revolutionaries, those brigades are us. They represent us. Because they haven't been paid. No one asked them to do this. They volunteered. They wanted to develop this -- this brigades (ph) to defend the country. So this represents Libya. No, the other side, which was Gadhafi's side, those people are paid. They are looking for extra cash or power to have. So like today, one of them is my brother. He came today and I saw him today before heading to Tripoli. I trust my brother. I trust the others.
GORANI: One of your brothers was one of the fighters, is what you're saying, Bassem?
MANSOURI: The fighters, yes. The freedom fighters, yes.
GORANI: Bassem al Mansouri, joining us from Janzour, which is about 10 miles or less that from Tripoli, calling this the happiest day of his life. The day that he says his country has been liberated from Moammar Gadhafi and those who protected him.
Thanks very much for joining us.
Well, the State Department has reaction to all of this. Let's -- I believe we're going to a break right now?
We are going to a break. We'll have reaction from the State Department and speak with Nicholas Burns, the former U.S. undersecretary for political affairs. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Matthew Chance joins us now from Tripoli, Libya. Matthew is at the Riksos (ph) Hotel where foreign journalists are gathered, covering the conflict from their vantage point
What's happening right now, Matthew?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a very delicate situation. Within the past few seconds really, or past few minutes, we've learned the security that's been so prevalent around this hotel has all of a sudden decided to leave, essentially the government minders who are armed with Kalashnikov assault rifles and things like that, have departed the hotel now. And it's pretty empty in the lobby apart from a few hotel staff. There are a few hotel staff. Apart from that, it's completely empty, which makes it kind of an uncertain time. Because obviously, while we don't know the exact reason why the minders have left with their weapons, the assumption is it's because the rebels are very close by. What we're expecting there -- we can't confirm this is going to happen, but what we're expecting now is that the rebels will come into Riksos (ph) Hotel and take over control of it. See, what we're doing is all of these journalists have corralled themselves onto this upper floor of the hotel, which we decided was the safest place for us to be. We have these flags. Look. There you can see, saying TV, just to give an indication, if any rebels do come in. It's high emotions and -- the adrenaline is flowing after these battles they've been fighting outside, perhaps they will pause and see that the international press is in this hotel -- Hala?
GORANI: So you are sort of putting the word "TV" on white flags just to make sure when the rebels make sure that if and when -- I suppose we can when, at this stage, Matthew, the rebels make it to the Riksos (ph), that they know who they are dealing with?
CHANCE: Exactly. Actually -- I mean, obviously, these are very dangerous times. We don't know whether it's going to be as clean as I've just sort of indicated or whether it will be a simple swap over with these minders and government Gadhafi loyalists leaving, and then the rebels move in. We actually don't know what's going to happen. It's a very volatile and very dangerous situation. Outside of the hotel for the past 12 hours or so, we've been hearing ferocious battles that have been continuing on the streets of Tripoli between the various armed groups, the Gadhafi loyalists and the rebels that have come in from various different directions. 1,300 people, according to the latest government estimates that we have, have been killed in the past 12 hours, another 5,000 injured. So it's obviously a very dangerous situation and we're sort of, as I say, all gathering here in the corridor of the Riksos (ph) Hotel. We sort of have a safe room as well at some location on the top floor. And we're waiting for the next development in this fast-developing story -- Hala?
GORANI: Well, it's an uncertain time for you, a very tense situation, I would imagine. Are you still hearing gunfire outside of the hotel and explosions, Matthew?
CHANCE: No, no, it's all gone quiet. It's funny because, up until a few minutes ago, the gunfire was very intense indeed. We were hearing (AUDIO GAP). Until a few minutes ago, a few minutes ago, there was very intensive gunfire outside of the hotel. We heard grenades exploding. There were obviously fierce battles going on. Since the minders have left this hotel, the gunmen have left this hotel, it's gotten a lot quieter. It's a bit -- (AUDIO GAP). My colleagues are already taking photographs of themselves, so they're making the decision reactively perhaps that this situation has come to an end. But that's -- I can tell you from experience, that's not the situation we're in at the moment. We're in a very uncertain situation and we don't know what will come next.
GORANI: I can see some of the kitchen staff behind you, it looks like. And people are gathered there huddled together. Perhaps safety in safety in numbers, is that the calculation you're making there in this very uncertain time?
CHANCE: Yes. And the fighting has been so ferocious outside that we were worried that the hotel may be mortared. We had to find a sort of relatively safe place within the hotel. It has also been important for us to coordinate our efforts as much as possible in terms of our security. There are a number of media organizations are here, and we will be trying to coordinate our efforts, because we want to do one thing and that is cover this story as safely as possible. And so that's what we're trying to do right now.
The situation is developing at such a fast pace around us, it's difficult to know what steps to take next. So what we decided to do -- (AUDIO GAP). We're going to stay put. We're going to wait to see what the next stage in this story is -- Hala?
GORANI: So you're saying that the government minders, that the hotel security has all basically left, and now you and other journalists gathered at the Riksos (ph) are gathered and huddled together, waiting to see what happens next. Now, technically you're not under government control anymore? I mean, you are sort of unlike the situation for the last five months, I imagine, not under the control of these government minders anymore?
CHANCE: Well, not directly, no. But I understand from one of my colleagues who's just been telling me that there are still government outside of the hotel. There are still Gadhafi loyalists on the periphery of the hotel. It's not as if we can wander around. Remember, the security situation outside this Riksos (ph) Hotel is very unpredictable as well. It may not be altogether advisable, from a security point of view, to be out wandering around when the situation is so volatile as it is.
As I say, we're just waiting now -- you see all my colleagues behind me -- waiting now to see what the next develop is.
There's some movement downstairs. It's hard for me to see what it is from up here. And a lot of the government downstairs, the Gadhafi loyalists, have been very sensitive about us filming them, so I am reluctant to go downstairs in case I am inadvertently, as this pressurized moment, broadcast the fact of one of them, which they might take exception to. So I'm being quite careful and sort of staying up here in the corridor as much as possible.
GORANI: Right. Of course. You don't want to take any risks at this stage, especially considering how volatile it appears the situation is. Let me ask you about developments over the last few hours and the reaction from pro-Gadhafi elements inside its hotel. I'm sure they're seeing images on television we've been seeing over the last few hours, of rebels advancing in Tripoli, of people in the streets of the capital celebrating. What was their reaction when they saw all this?
CHANCE: The people we've been dealing with in the hotel, their reaction has been quite down. They've been very concerned about these developments. Many of them have family ties to the Gadhafi regime. They put their eggs in the baskets of Colonel Gadhafi, as it were. They're pretty much hard-care loyalists to the regime, so any development like the kind that we've seen of these very significant rebel advances in the west of the city, particularly in the east of the city, government officials confirming that the government lost control some hours ago of the eastern suburbs of Tripoli.
As I say, fierce fighting across all areas, including the center of the city as well. These have been perceived by minders, by the people, the contacts we've had, even the hotel, as very negative developments indeed. But obviously, the situation outside in Tripoli is much more patchy, much more varied.
We're having these reports that in the west of the city, as the rebels have come in from Zawiyah, they've been greeted by some of the residents and fireworks were launched and some celebrations that the rebels have come in. Obviously, that's not the case for many -- obviously, that's not the case for -- obviously, that's not the case for many of the residents, so --
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: If you need to stop, Matthew -- Matthew, if you need to stop and listen to what's being said, please, do so. We want you to be safe. We don't want you to broadcast live any images that might get you in trouble at this very crucial stage in this story in Tripoli.
CHANCE: Actually, there is still one gunman downstairs and he's got a green bandanna on. And he is one of the people who's been very sensitive about being filmed. You can hear him shouting downstairs. I'm going to tip my camera and you might be able to see him in the corner. He's got a Kalashnikov. He's got two Kalashnikovs, in fact. And -- he's staying downstairs, so I think we're going to be -- we'll be able to talk.
GORANI: Is it still quiet outside, Matthew?
CHANCE: Yes, it is still quiet outside, yes. We came into the center of the hotel to sort of try to protect ourselves from the potential of being hit by any of the stray bullets or any of the bullets that may have been directed towards the hotel because it's been so tense outside. But, yes -- surprisingly, it's gone very quiet. As I say, as we see these government minders move out, these pro-Gadhafi government at its hotel -- but you know, I have to stress that's -- they've not entirely left as I just mentioned. There has been a significant decrease in the amount of firing we've been witnessed in the immediate vicinity of the hotel -- Hala?
GORANI: How far are you from where the fighting did take place, or from where the rebel advance did occur today in Tripoli? In other words, just trying to figure out the number of miles between where we know the rebels have managed to advance and where you are right now?
CHANCE: Not far at all. We're talking about just a few minutes in the car. Maybe 20 minutes in the car across town, in traffic. It's not very far at all. Its' not that big a city. It's a city of two million people. But in terms of its size, it's not that large in terms of its land mass. You can get from one side to the other relatively quickly.
But when we're talking about rebels coming into the western fringes of the city, we're talking about a 20-minute drive. When we talking about rebels holding the eastern suburbs of Tripoli, we're talking about another 20 minutes in the other direction. We're smack in the middle.
But again, it's not just all those outer suburbs we've been hearing the reports and hearing the evidence of the gun fights. It's been all over Tripoli over the course of the past -- for the course of the past 24 hours or so. And it's been that heavy death toll, 1300 people killed, 5,000 injured. As the night goes on, obviously, the expectation is, as the fighting continues, the death toll will rise as well.
GORANI: I think for people watching this around the world -- and we're continuing to hear, by the way, that gunman you were describing earlier yell. I'm not sure what he's saying. Is he having issues with anything that the journalists are doing? I just want to make sure you're as safe as possible, Matthew.
CHANCE: Let me just take a listen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
CHANCE: I can't really make out what he was saying, but he was talking about Gadhafi son. He was talking about Colonel Gadhafi.
What's he talking about?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Downstairs?
CHANCE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Basically, he was talking about having the TVs --
CHANCE: OK. He was upset about the fact that we had TV signs up there. He took exception to that for some reason. But he seems to have been talked down. There's a few journalists downstairs talking to him there, but he seems to have backed off from that.
GORANI: Describe, again, for all the viewers who are just joining us, Matthew, exactly what the situation is right now at the Riksos (ph) Hotel. For all those who haven't been following as closely as we've been reporting this story, the situation in Libya, the Riksos (ph) is where international journalists are gathered, very heavily monitored by government minders in Libya. This is where the Tripoli side of the story is being reported from.
Tell us against what's happening at the Riksos (ph) Hotel right now, Matthew.
CHANCE: Can you repeat that question? Do you want me to tell you the situation here?
GORANI: Bring us up to date once again on the situation inside the hotel for you and your colleagues, the other international reporter, at the Riksos (ph).
CHANCE: Well, it's not a good situation. It's very -- it's very tense indeed. Over the past couple of -- a half an hour or so, we've seen that the majority of the minders, who have been heavily armed, have left the hotel and it's been replaced by a sense of insecurity in the hotel. There are a few gunmen still wandering around with green bandannas on and green flags attached, but, you know, at the moment, we really don't know what's going to happen next.
Hala, I think I'm going to have to leave it there. I'll get back to you as soon as I can --
GORANI: All right.
CHANCE: -- with an update on the situation.
GORANI: Thank you.
Matthew Chance reporting live from Tripoli.
