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Libyan Rebels Seize Most of Tripoli; Social Media Reaction to Libya Across the Middle East; Libya's Democratic Challenges; Gadhafi's Family Tree; Talk Back Question

Aired August 22, 2011 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour, I'm Suzanne Malveaux. Want to get you up to speed.

Rebel fighters poured into Libya's capital for a second straight day today, largely unchallenged. They claim to control 80 percent of Tripoli. Moammar Gadhafi's loyalists are putting up spotty resistance, but Libyan exiles say this is the end of Gadhafi's hold on their country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've been suppressed for 42 years. Now we're testing the freedom, the freedom of speech, the freedom of movement, the freedom of everything. That means the Libyan people are free, no longer suppressed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: The rebel surge into Tripoli lead to wild celebrations all across Libya. Now, this video is from a CNN iReporter in Benghazi, the city that nurtured the revolt. NATO air strikes turned things around for the rebels just when defeat appeared certain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERS FOGH RASMUSSEN, NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL: The Libyan people have suffered tremendously under Gadhafi's rule for over four decades. Now they have a chance for a new beginning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: National security advisers updated President Obama today on the progress of Libyan rebels. He is at Martha's Vineyard for a few days away from the White House. And in a written statement, the president says, "Gadhafi needs to acknowledge the reality that he no longer controls Libya. He needs to relinquish power once and for all."

Well, Moammar Gadhafi has now slipped out of sight, but the Pentagon says it has no reason to believe that he's actually left the country. Sunday, Gadhafi remained bitterly defiant, urging Libyans to flood the streets against the rebels.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MOAMMAR GADHAFI, LIBYAN LEADER (through translator): This destruction by NATO (ph), get out and lead. Lead the people to paradise. Get out. Get out of the mosques. These pure people, get out of the mosques and lead the people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Gadhafi was heard on Libyan state television, which actually went dark today. Rebels say that they are now in control of that station.

A popular Libyan TV news anchor who angrily flashed a gun on the air has been arrested. Hala Misrati (ph) told viewers Sunday, "I kill or I die today." Rebels say they discovered Misrati (ph) in her car outside a Tripoli coffee house.

Rebels say that three of Gadhafi's sons are in custody today, including Saif al-Islam, the son groomed to succeed him. Fighters grabbed another son, Mohammed Gadhafi, early this morning. Now, he was on the phone at the time for a live interview with the Arab language news network Al Jazeera. You could hear rebels burst into his house.

And Gadhafi's regime, on the brink of collapse now. Rebels battling the takeover remain in areas of the capital. They are dramatic events that are reshaping the future of Libya.

Well, CNN's Sara Sidner, she is on the ground in Tripoli, filed this report just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're not in Green Square. Actually, we're about a half a mile from Green Square. We've been driving through the neighborhoods because we saw Green Square yesterday, with the rebels in that square, although thy were a little bit tense because they said there were snipers, although we did not see evidence of any at that time last night.

However, what we are seeing in the streets of Tripoli, all over the streets, are rebel fighters driving through the streets, honking their horns, waving the rebel flag, which was the flag that was in place in this country before the Gadhafi regime came to power about 42 years ago. You're hearing honking. You've been hearing that, too, every now and then from gunfire.

One thing that we should definitely note here is that we are in a basically residential/business neighborhood. This is -- there's bank. There's a store here that's selling clothes. And every single shop is shut down at this point in time.

We're seeing very few residents in the street. And we're talking about -- we're in the early -- late morning now here, in Tripoli, and normally there would be traffic, there would be people on the streets. We're not seeing that. We're seeing rebels in the streets, we're seeing just a few residents who have come out to cheer the rebels on, but a very interesting scene here in Tripoli.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Well, now it's your turn to "Talk Back." Today's question: Is U.S. involvement in Libya even worth it?

Carol Costello, she joins us from New York.

Hey, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Suzanne.

There is no question now Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi's reign is just about over. Thousands are reportedly dead, and it's likely more will die. But thanks in large part to NATO forces and the United States, Libya will likely be free of a cruel dictator.

Libya is celebrating.

Here at home, in the United States, the celebrations may be satisfying to watch, but the feeling is tempered. Like everything else, U.S. involvement in Libya was conflicted.

Liberal Congressman Dennis Kucinich accused President Obama of an impeachable offense because Mr. Obama moved forward on Libya without congressional approval. Republican Senator McCain was critical because he said President Obama didn't move fast enough to prevent a long, drawn-out fight for freedom.

And Americans weary of war were also concerned about the cost. According to the Obama administration, the Libya mission will cost American taxpayers $1.1 billion by September 30th.

Still, in just six months, Gadhafi is just about gone. Remember, he was slaughtering his own people. Al Jazeera estimates 13,000 Libyans have died in this conflict.

So the "Talk Back" today: Was U.S. involvement in Libya worth it?

Facebook.com/CarolCNN. I'll read your comments later this hour.

MALVEAUX: All right. Thank you, Carol.

We want to go to Tripoli. That is where our own Sara Sidner is. She joins us by phone.

Sara, first of all, excellent reporting. We have seen you really in the midst of much of the chaos and the celebration. Very dangerous circumstances that you're in.

Can you describe for us what is happening now, where you are, and what is the state on the ground there with the rebels?

SIDNER: Yes. Let me say it this way. What was dangerous yesterday seems to be getting more dangerous today as people become a little more emboldened. We have seen a bit of looting around the town. We've seen people getting more tense, because what they thought was going to be a very quick move into the center city, just like they did last night, has actually been stopped. There is now some fighting going on near the city center, according to the rebels.

We were not allowed to go down to the same area where we were yesterday, in Green Square, because we could hear gunfire coming from that area. We know that that gunfire was an engagement of the rebels against the Gadhafi supporters, and what they called mercenaries. They said that some of the folks were on tops of buildings, shooting downward towards anyone in the area that moved.

So, a very, very tense situation has unfolded this evening in the capital of Tripoli. But, still, there is a lot of celebration going on in the streets.

And as it gets a little bit more towards dusk, as people get ready to reheat their Iftar meal, which is what Muslims have once the sun goes down, there is a little bit more jubilation in the streets. Some of the residents coming out chanting, shooting, dancing, quite happy, because they now feel that even though there's still a bit of fighting in the city, that they really feel that the rebels are going to be able to take full control of the city in a matter of days.

MALVEAUX: And Sara, it may be difficult to tell, but you said that there was some looting taking place, that there was some more tension and violence. Do you have a sense of who is actually in charge on the ground? Is there anyone in charge, or does that change from hour to hour?

SIDNER: Yes, it is very difficult to tell. We do know there has been quite a bit of coordination, though, because when we tried to go down to the city center a couple of times today, we saw a group of the rebels coming back, and then all of a sudden, everyone, including us, was turned around and sent back, sent away, saying that we had to leave the area.

So there is some kind of coordination. We're not sure where exactly that's coming from.

However, now, with some of the checkpoints, there's confusion about who can come and go. There's a little more aggression.

We had our camera -- someone put their hand on our camera and pushed our camera down because they didn't want us to shoot an area that we had been shooting all day long. So a little more confusion, a little bit of aggression, and there's definitely some folks that are becoming emboldened.

I mean, remember, there are folks in here who have disliked Gadhafi and felt terrorized by his regime for many, many years, for decades. And now, suddenly, they have been given the chance to say what they want, do what they want in a city that really isn't under anyone's control, though the rebels probably control about 80 percent of the city. There's a certain amount of wildness and of freedom that can be exercised here, and we're seeing just a little bit of that.

And I don't want you to think that people are going wild in the streets, but I want you to understand that there's a little bit more of a sense that we have to be very careful, and that women and children and families have to be very careful, because you're not quite sure what's going to happen, where families may think, wait a minute, weren't you the one that supported the Gadhafi regime, how they're going to be treated each others as neighbors. Those questions will start cropping up more and more as the rebels gain more control of the city.

MALVEAUX: And Sara, you bring up a good point, and you kind of hint to the possibility of Libyans turning on each other. Have you seen any evidence so far? Have you seen any kind of tension between those who support Gadhafi and those who are now moving through Tripoli?

SIDNER: No, and that is because, for the most part, as has been in every city we've been in, anyone who has supported Gadhafi when the rebels came in had either left or they keep their mouths shut. But these families generally know each other, although this is a bigger city. But generally, people know who did and who does not support the regime, and so there is a little bit of tension here in the sense that if you did support Gadhafi, at this point I think their feeling, it will do best for them to be quiet.

We do know there was a significant arrest today of a broadcaster, a very well known broadcaster, and you had her on CNN air. She was the one holding the pistol. Her name is Hala al-Misrati (ph).

She was arrested today. She was the one that was talking about the Gadhafi regime, that she would die as a martyr before she let the rebels take control of the city. And so there was at that point a bunch of people trying to get at her, angry with her, wanting to get to her. We don't know what they wanted to do to her, but they certainly wanted to get to her, very, very angry with her, because they felt like she was a mouthpiece of the Gadhafi regime.

MALVEAUX: And Sara, when you say she was arrested, who had the authority to arrest her? Who had arrested that anchor who was loyal to Gadhafi?

SIDNER: She was arrested by some of these rebel forces. And we have seen this in other cities as well, that they know certain people get targeted. They were able to find her.

What they told us was she was parking her car in the city, near a coffee shop in a neighborhood. And her brother was in the car with her. They came up to her, a rebel got in the car, basically said, "You're under arrest." They took her down to a building, not a jail, but just a building that they chose, and they put her into a room.

Now, we were unable to see her. We're not sure what her condition is, but they said her condition is fine, that she does not want to talk to the media, and that she was there with her brother. So there are these groups that kind of form to become almost a justice arm of the advancing rebels. They said that they will take her to the court system, and they said they still trusted the court system, which is an interesting note, even the same system that was in place when the Gadhafi regime had full control of the country.

MALVEAUX: Sara, we couldn't help but hear gunfire in the background from where you are, I believe. Is there gunfire from your location?

SIDNER: Yes, there is quite a bit of gunfire. And, you know, unfortunately for us, we have actually become accustomed to very loud bangs and booms coming from the cars driving by, because nine times out of 10, the rebels are celebrating who feel good about today, and that is one of the ways they enjoy celebrating. So, yes, there was gunfire, but no, it was nothing that anyone needed to worry about, except for the fact that those bullets have to go down somewhere, and we do know that in other countries around the world, people have been killed by that sort of celebratory gunfire.

MALVEAUX: Sara, please be safe. You've done an excellent job bringing the story to us and around the world. We really appreciate your reporting, and we'll get back to you as the news warrants.

That is Sara Sidner out of Tripoli, Libya.

We're covering every angle as this situation continues to unfold in Libya.

First, the reaction across the Middle East. Mona Eltahawy hears from the world of social media.

And then, Michael Holmes. He's breaking down the Gadhafi family tree.

Plus, Libyans have had the same leader for more than 40 years. We'll see what's next for the nation if Gadhafi is forced out.

And then, the people lining up to lead Libya. We're going to take a look at potential transitional government.

And journalists, including a CNN reporter, stuck in a hotel, forced to fend for themselves. The government protection flees as rebels try to take Tripoli.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Actually, there is still one gun man downstairs, and he has got a green bandana on. And he is one of the people who has been very sensitive about being filmed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For us, as long as (INAUDIBLE), so many lives being ruined. The whole country, history, really. Forty-two years have gone by, and we've missed out on so much. So people's morale is still really high, and we're just waiting for it to all be over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Libyans look to the future after 42 years under Moammar Gadhafi's iron-fisted rule. The rebel advance into Tripoli has brought Gadhafi's regime to the brink of collapse now. Tunisia, Egypt and now Libya, the revolution spreading across North Africa and the Arab world, is reshaping the region.

Mona Eltahawy, she's an Egyptian journalists. She's a columnist and international public speaker on Arab and Muslim issues, and she joins us from New York.

And Mona, it's good to see you. Obviously, you've got your finger on the pulse here. You've got a massive following of the Arab world through social media.

What are folks saying about what's taking place now in Libya?

MONA ELTAHAWY, EGYPTIAN JOURNALIST: Well, first of all, they're ecstatic at the crumbling of the Gadhafi regime, because this is the longest ruling dictator in the world. And to imagine Gadhafi gone is just an amazing thing.

And then, secondly, and I think this really speaks to just how everybody in the region feels, this is something that is being passed on like a baton. Libyans in Shordar (ph) Square, or the Martyrs Square, which is what used to be called Green Square, are now chanting to the Syrians to tell them, never fear Syria. After Gadhafi, Bashar will fall.

So they are always looking to the Syrians and seeing (INAUDIBLE) inspired by us. And the Bahranians are saying, we should be inspired by Libya. The Palestinians in Gaza are saying, we should be inspired.

So it's a feeling that the entire region has benefited from this, and that this is a great boost to all the revolutionaries in the region.

MALVEAUX: Do you know, Mona, using Facebook and Twitter and all these other things, if rebels or protesters are using social media in Libya to galvanize this movement?

ELTAHAWY: Well, you know, the Internet was cut for the past four months now, so it was just -- Libyans just got back online yesterday. So many of the voices that we had been following at the beginning, when the revolution started in February, had gone completely silent.

So, clearly, social media is not such a big tool for the Libyan revolution. But you are seeing some voices come back now, and I'm following some Libyans who are telling us what it's like to be in their homes as they hear gunfire outside. And you are seeing more communication between people, so you're seeing it -- for example, Yemenis writing to Libyans and saying, thank you for what you're doing, because you're making our president/dictator, Ali Abdullah Saleh, tremble. So you are seeing the voices come back now.

MALVEAUX: That's really incredible, the way everybody is talking to each other and communication.

You know, the protests, the Arab Spring, it began -- the home country, your home country of Egypt inspired protests in Libya shortly afterwards. Do folks like yourself, do you think that Egypt is headed in the right direction, that life is better without Mubarak?

ELTAHAWY: Well, you know, it began in Tunisia. It began in Tunisia, in December, when that young man, Mohammed Bouazizi, set himself on fire, and really, literally, set our imagination on fire in the Middle East and North Africa. Liberated our imagination, if you like. And I think when you look at Tunisia and when you look at Egypt, and now, as we begin to Libya, every country has a struggle ahead.

I was in Egypt last month. It's clear that we have a long way to go.

We replaced one Mubarak with a supreme council of Mubaraks. That's the military junta that runs Egypt right now.

They're putting civilians on military trial. They refused -- so far, they haven't set a date for the elections.

So, clearly, we have a long way to go in Egypt. But, during that week I spent in Egypt, I picked up an amazing amount of optimism. Everybody has an opinion, everybody has a view of where Egypt should go, and that, to me, is what is the most important reward of these revolutions. Our imaginations have been liberated. We can dream again of the kinds of countries that we want to live in.

MALVEAUX: And Mona, you covered Libya as a journalist. Does it surprise you? I mean, did you ever think that you would see this day, the possibility that Gadhafi's regime, 42 years, would end?

ELTAHAWY: It's unbelievable, Suzanne. I was in Libya, along with other journalists in 1996, to celebrate the so-called revolution of basically the coup that swept Gadhafi to power in 1969. One of his male bodyguards twisted my nipple in the middle of a news conference, so I have no fond memories of that trip in Libya.

Other than that, I just remember the tremendous amount of isolation that Libyans were living under. It speaks to the power and the courage of Libyans that, despite that isolation and despite the sheer brutality of the Gadhafi regime, and despite the fact that the world would look at him as a clown, they continued a revolution that began many years ago. This didn't happen -- this didn't start in February. And so we must employ (ph) the courage of Libyans who, for decades, have been trying to end this brutal dictatorship.

MALVEAUX: All right. Mona, thank you very much. We appreciate your reporting there.

I also want to let you know here that Matthew Chance, our own Matthew Chance, who is at a Tripoli hotel, is reporting that there's intense gunfire around where he is. As soon as we can get him, we're going to try to bring him up and give you a live report from there.

But what we do know is that he is reporting that there is intense fighting and gunfire that is taking place where a group of journalists have been trying to report the story. That is our own Matthew Chance in Tripoli. And as soon as we can bring him, we're going to actually bring him to you to give you an update of what's happening there.

We're also exploring who is going to take charge in Libya if and when we've heard the last of Moammar Gadhafi. We're going to look at those possibilities up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: If rebels succeed and drive Moammar Gadhafi from power, they are halfway to their goal. Some might argue the next step, putting together a Democratic government. That's going to be the hard part.

Well, Foreign Affairs Correspondent Jill Dougherty, she's at the State Department.

And Jill, we know that Libyans are a tribal society. They've got rivals, competing goals. Do we think that they can work together to form a democratic society?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That is going to be the ultimate question, Suzanne, because, after all, when the fighting is over, and even now, you can say that the transition has begun. They do, according to -- I should say "they," being the National Transitional Council, the NTC, does have a series of detailed plans, we are told by U.S. officials, in place for what will happen next, when Gadhafi goes.

Now, essentially, what they are trying to do is make sure that security will be OK, and then move on to other really structural things. How do you make sure that everybody is brought into the process? How do you make sure, as you mentioned, the tribal groups are not alienated, that people don't start a civil war with each other?

So the NTC would in turn create an interim authority, and that interim authority, we're told, would be made up of experts and what are called technocrats, people who have some expertise in governing. They would put together groups that would work on a new constitution, work on the elections that still have to take place, because the NTC is not a government in that sense.

And then, finally, when you talk about the things that can divide them, good things can divide them. In other words, they, if they take over, would have the oil revenues from Libya, which are really huge.

They would also have those frozen Libyan government assets that are now being unfrozen. Remember, the United States froze about $30 billion in Libyan money. That will be unfrozen and given to the NTC.

So money sometimes can divide people. So there are really serious challenges, not to mention just the insecurity of the situation.

The plans, we are told, look good on paper, but can they actually be carried out? That's the question.

MALVEAUX: All right, Jill. Thank you.

Libya, after the uprising. I'm going to talk with Ambassador Nicholas Burns about what's next for Gadhafi and the country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: So, what ahead for Gadhafi and the rebels fighting to break his 42-year grip on power? Well, joining us with some insight on that is ambassador Nicholas Burns. He is former U.S. undersecretary for political affairs and former State Department official.

Nicholas, good to see you. First of all, when you look and see what's happening on the ground, I understand - Nicholas, if you hang on with us for just a moment here. We are getting some news. My colleague, CNNi international colleague Hala Gorani is interviewing our own Matthew Chance, who is in Tripoli on the ground at a hotel where journalists are covering the story. Let's take a quick listen to this interview.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on the phone): -- over by the rebels. There are still some pockets that remain in the control of the Gadhafi loyalists. And it seems that we're well and truly in the middle of one of those areas that is still controlled by the government of Colonel Gadhafi.

The hotel we're staying in has been virtually abandoned. It's in darkness; the electricity has gone off in the hotels. The generators have run out of fuel. And so communications have become very difficult. There's still some armed Gadhafi supporters in the hotel lobby, around the perimeter of the hotel. There are Gadhafi loyalists as well.

And so we still feel very much under the control of the Gadhafi supporters, these members of the government of Colonel Gadhafi. And even as much of Tripoli falls into rebel hands, I can tell you, there has been fierce gun battles over the course of the last several hours. Outside the hotel, on the parameter of the hotel, and near the compound of Colonel Gadhafi, which is a short distance from here. It's all in this area.

So while there are pockets of rebel control, perhaps the majority of control of Tripoli elsewhere in the city, again, this is one pocket which remains firmly in the hands of the Gadhafi loyalists. And there are fierce battles underway between them and the rebels to try and wrestle control of it, Hala.

HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: And it's a high-profile target. It's the Ricksos (ph) Hotel. We've seen it, mentioned it on air for more than five months nowI imagine you in the hotel are expecting any minute a fight to get close to you or one of these two sides to take control of this hotel, Matthew?

CHANCE: Yes, it has a certain symbolic value to both the government and the rebels. Perhaps that's one of the reasons why there's such ferocious battles underway right now, outside the hotel and in areas close to it for control of the area.

And perhaps that's one of the reasons why the government have posted their security forces in some numbers around the perimeter in the hotel, in the area in general. Because they want to hold on to this kind of symbolic target in the middle of the area, which also contains other symbolic buildings, like the compound of Colonel Gadhafi. Even though that compound has been heavily bombed over the course of the past several months.

But yes, it is quite disturbing. As I mentioned before, very precarious situation that we've found ourselves in. It's gotten slightly worse because of the electricity going down. Food is running very short as well, and water. I think we have enough supplies for a few days, but after that things are going to get, you know, pretty difficult for the few thousand journalists that have still continued to congregate in this hotel.

We're not being permitted, Hala, I have to say, by the security forces downstairs, by the Gadhafi loyalists. We're not being permitted to go outside of the hotel or to leave it. That means that we have to stay here. But they are not allowing us to go outside.

GORANI: So, is the firefight ongoing outside of the hotel right now?

CHANCE: It is ongoing. And it's not just the firefight. We're talking about heavy explosions, artillery shells, rocket-propelled grenades exploding, heavy machine gunfire. You know, this is not just a little rat-a-tat-tat, it's a huge all-out battle of control of this area.

And you know, it's - occasionally, we're getting stray bullets come into the hotel, and we are having to stay away from the windows right where we're sort of congregating in the central sort of lobby areas because it's just become so dangerous being here. Many of us are sitting here in the dark because of no lights in the very hot heat because there's no air-conditioning. You know, kind of staying away from the windows in case we get struck by a stray bullet. So, it's a pretty disturbing experience, Hala.

GORANI: All right, Matthew Chance, best of luck to you, to all of our colleagues and friends at the Ricksos (ph) Hotel on (INAUDIBLE) in Libya. A very uncertain and dangerous situation. Matthew describing a fire fight outside of the hotel, still in government hands. The Ricksos (ph) Hotel, where so many of the international journalists reported from and are still trying to report from in Libya, in the Libyan capital.

A fire fight ongoing. Loud explosions in the dark because power has been cut off and there is no more fuel for generators. With very little food; perhaps a couple days left of supplies there at the Ricksos (ph).

The battle for that symbolic target, Matthew saying, still very much ongoing. We thank our senior international correspondent in Tripoli.

For our U.S. viewers, thanks for joining us. It's back to Suzanne Malveaux at the CNN Center.

MALVEAUX: Thank you, Hala.

I want to bring in our ambassador, Nicholas Burns. He's a former U.S. undersecretary for political affairs, a former State Department official.

Nicholas, you heard Matthew Chance inside of that hotel. When you hear that, the situation that he is in, what do you make of what needs to happen to turn that around? The symbolic importance of them taking that hotel and making sure they hold on to that hotel, Gadhafi forces?

NICHOLAS BURNS, FORMER U.S. UNDERSECRETARY FOR POLITICAL AFFAIRS: Well, Gadhafi's forces all but lost the war, but there are remaining pockets of them, Suzanne, as Matthew showed in Tripoli. Obviously job number one for the rebel alliance is to defeat the forces or convince them to surrender.

Because until that happens, there may be a suspicion that Colonel Gadhafi could continue to launch an effective insurgency against the rebel council, the presumably new government of Libya. Like Saddam Hussein before him, he's in hiding. He may be in hiding for quite a while if he's not found out.

So, it's really imperative that they are able to defeat those remaining Gadhafi forces in Tripoli. And then of course, they will have the major, major battle of forming government, of gaining public acceptance, of trying to unify this very badly fractured and badly damaged government.

MALVEAUX: And Nick, you having worked at the State Department before, is there anything that you think the United States could or should be doing right now to help bring Gadhafi's regime to an end?

BURNS: You know, I think the Obama administration has really done a fine job of leading in terms of the combat support, the air support in particular over the last couple of weeks. And NATO has really stepped up its air attacks, as you know, Suzanne, in the last several days and weeks. The U.S. had a lot to do with that.

I think there must be a certain amount of vindication that the administration deserves to have. Because it's stuck with this policy now for nearly 6 months. They had a lot of critics, some who argue the constitutionality of whether the president could even order our forces in this conflict. Others who argued it was a stalemate.

But the president stuck with his policy, and it appears to be succeeding. I think, obviously, the United States as the leading country in the world, will have to give a lot of political support to this new government. But it should be the Europeans, and it should be the Arab countries that do the most in terms of economic assistance to this fledgling government when it is established.

MALVEUAX: What could the United States do to actually support this transitional government? Should there be some sort of civilian force on the ground from the United States and other countries to help them manage this transition?

BURNS: Well, I think as Jill Dougherty reported from the State Department and the earlier report that you had, the United States will have the ability to release the embargoed funds, the frozen funds, the nearly $30 billion from the Gadhafi regime. That will be a shot in the arm to the new government.

Obviously the U.S. can use its political influence with our NATO allies, particularly France and Italy and Spain, all of whom have vital interest in Libya to encourage them to be on the ground and to lead in economic assistance.

And the wealthier countries of the Gulf, the Arab -- the Persian Gulf, they ought to step forward. And they ought to lead the Arab League to embrace this government and to help it get on its feet and to help put itself on the road to developing a constitution. Very slowly, obviously, and leading to new elections.

So, the U.S. can play a very pivotal political role, but I don't think that the U.S. needs to shoulder the economic leadership here.

MALVEAUX: And the Transitional National Council, very quickly here, has said they think it could take up to 20 months or so before they could stabilize the government and the region, provide services for folks.

Do you think the Libyan people have that kind of time? Do you think they will be patient enough to hold on?

BURNS: I think, Suzanne, it will take a long time because this is not Egypt. Egypt had a civil society. Egypt had political parties. Libya has had none of that under the brutal rule of Moammar Gadhafi. So, it will take a very long time for the country to get back on its feet. There are poor people there, there are damaged cities, and cities blown apart where the infrastructure has been destroyed. And so I think all of us will have to be very, very patient and not expect immediate results as this government takes power.

MALVUEAX: All right. Nicholas Burns, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Good to see you.

Well, toppling Moammar Gadhafi is only part of the regime change. He has quite a large family. Seven living sons and a daughter. So, what about them? We're going to talk about that next.

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MALVEUAX: Right now, everybody is wondering where Gadhafi is, and how much longer he can hold on to power. And then there is the family. Our Michael Holmes is here with us to explain a little bit to explain a little bit about the family and obviously your own experience having just come back from that country and from the region.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I had a couple of weeks there with the western rebels in the western mountains. These are the guys that actually made it to the coast.

But when it comes to Gadhafi's family, I mean, this is a guy who had nine kids, had eight wives. I mean, it's a big extended family. Not all of them heavily involved in the running of the country. Several of them were, however. Three of those might be in custody.

Have a look back.

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HOLMES (voice-over): Sixty-eight-year-old Moammar Gadhafi has been married twice and has eight biological children and two adopted, one of whom died.

His first wife, Fatiha, was a schoolteacher. They were married only six months. They had a son, Mohammed, who is now 40 and the head of Libya's Olympic Committee. He's also chairman of the company that offers cell phone and satellite services in Libya.

Gadhafi's second wife, Safia Farkash, was once his nurse and is the mother of seven of his children. 38-year-old Saif al-Islam maybe the most recognized and outspoken of those offspring. He attended the London School of Economics and now heads a global charity. Once seen as an advocate of reform, more recently, he has a vocal defender of his father's regime.

SAIF AL-ISLAM GADHAFI: We have plan A, plan B, plan C. Plan A is to live and die in Libya. Plan B is to live and die in Libya, and plan C is to live and die in Libya.

HOLMES: Another son, Saadi, is a former football player. He played for Perusia in Italy for one season, and now runs the Libyan Football Federation. Leaked U.S. diplomatic cables posted on WikiLeaks claim he had, quote, " scuffles with police in Europe." Mutassim is Colonel Gadhafi's fourth son. He's national security advisor and a commander in the Libyan army. He visited Washington in April, 2009, when he met with the secretary of state, Hillary Rodham Clinton. Leaked diplomatic cables described an intense personal rivalry and power struggle between Mutassim and his brother Saif.

Mutassim has also attracted attention for this party habits, including this lavish New Year's Eve party on the island of St. Barts in 2009. Diplomatic cables describe it as a million dollar personal concert with Beyonce and Usher performing.

Ayesha is Colonel Gadhafi's only biological daughter. She's trained as a lawyer and served on former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's defense team. She also defended the Iraqi journalist who threw his shoe at the former U.S. president, George W. Bush. The United Nations recently terminated her role as a goodwill ambassador for her role in supporting the Libyan regime. She quickly responded to that decision.

AYESHA GADHAFI, DAUGHTER OF MOAMMAR GADHAFI (through translator): All the Libyans who know me and I knew them, they know that I'm a goodwill ambassador with or without the United Nations.

HOLMES: Another son, Hannibal, is also in his 30s and no stranger to controversy. He's been arrested several times, including in 2008 when he was arrested in Geneva for allegedly beating two of his servants. The charges were later dropped, but the case caused an international uproar. The Libyan government threatened to punish Switzerland with sanctions, including cutting off their oil supply, unless he was released.

And then there's Khamis Gadhafi, said to be in his 30s as well and a military commander. According to leaked diplomatic cables, his 32nd brigade is, quote, "widely known to be the most well-trained and well-equipped force in the Libyan military." That same brigade may have been involved in attacks on protesters.

Gadhafi adopted a nephew, Milad, who is said to have saved Gadhafi's life in the U.S. bombing of his compound in 1986. Hanna, an adopted daughter, was killed in that bombing when she was just 15 months old.

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HOLMES: Yes, there was one other son, too, Saif al-Arab. Not Saif al-Islam. And he was killed in a NATO bombing back in May. And three other sons are said to be in the hands of the rebels at the moment.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: And, Michael, do we have any idea where any of the other siblings might be hiding?

HOLMES: No one knows. And it's like -- it's like hunting for Gadhafi. I mean there are stories that he was in Tunisia. No, he's not. He could have gone to Algeria. Well, maybe. Chad, where he got a lot of his mercenaries from, he could have gone there. There was rumors he was in the basement of the Rixos Hotel, where all the media are. No one knows for sure.

MALVEAUX: And what was your impression having just come back from Libya?

HOLMES: Well, in terms of the rebels, we were with the western rebels, the western mountain rebels, out in the Nafusa Mountains. These are the guys who did the big push off those mountains, across the plains, headed for the coast. It was like being with a Mad Max army. But these guys did know what they were doing.

One of the rebel commanders was an x-ray technician in Bistad (ph), but he knew what he was doing, calling the shots up there during what was a ferocious battle for Biralganam (ph). So they obviously were on a steep learning curve and it showed. When they got to the coast, they headed straight for Tripoli.

MALVEAUX: All right, Michael Holmes, thank you very much.

HOLMES: Good to see you.

MALVEAUX: Glad to have you back.

HOLMES: Thank you.

MALVEAUX: Well, reporters in a war zone. A day on the job in Libya can be a very tense ordeal.

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MALVEAUX: Gadhafi loyalists are still holding a hotel in Tripoli that is home base for international journalists. Now outside, intense fighting as the rebels are trying to move in. Inside, CNN's Matthew Chance is describing some very tense moments as Gadhafi's men roam the hotel with guns.

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MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Because what we don't know the exact reason while the -- why the minders are blessed with their weapons. But the assumption is it's because the rebels are very close by. What we're expecting now, you know, we can't confirm this is going to happen, but what we're expecting now is that the rebels will come into the Rixos Hotel to take over control of it.

It is a -- see what we're doing here. All these journalists have corralled themselves onto this upper floor of the hotel, which we decided was the safest place for us to be. We've put up these flags, look, over there you can see, saying "TV," just to give an indication if any rebels do come in, there's high emotions, if they're, you know, the adrenalin is flowing into these battles they've been fighting outside. Perhaps they can pause and will see that the international press is in this hotel.

HALA GORANI, CNN: And we're continuing to hear, by the way, that gunman you were describing earlier, yell. I'm not sure what he's saying? Is he having issues with anything that the journalists are doing? I just want to make sure that you're as safe as possible, Matthew.

CHANCE: Let me just take a listen.

I couldn't really make out what he was saying. He was upset about the fact that we had "TV" signs up there. He took exception to that for some reason. But he seems to have been talked down. There's a few journalists downstairs talking to him now, but, you know, he seems to have been -- he seems to have backed off now.

Over the past couple of -- half an hour or so, we've seen that the majority of the minders who have been heavily armed have left the hotel and it's been replaced by a sense of insecurity of the hotel. There are a few gunman still wondering around with green bandanas on and green flags attacked to them. But, you know, at the moment, the -- we don't know what's going to happen next.

Hala, I think I'm going to have to, you know, leave it there. I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

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MALVEAUX: Wow.

We want to know what you think. Today's "Talk Back," is U.S. involvement in Libya worth it? Carol Costello is up next with your responses.

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MALVEAUX: You've been sounding off on the "Talk Back" question. Carol Costello is here with your responses.

Hey, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Suzanne.

Today's "Talk Back" question, is U.S.'s involvement in Libya worth it? Was it worth it?

This from Nathan. "Worth it to who? I mean it was worth it for the rebels. And it sure made America look good. But America has its own problems without trying to deal with the rest of the world's issues. I am so sick and tired of USA being the world's police."

This from Maya. "President Obama handled the Libyan conflict in the west way possible. Instead of pledging a full war effort, he took a stance to promote freedom and the rebels, while allowing NATO and nations like France to take a more prominent military role."

This from David. "No, the U.S. government is bankrupt and all this does is add additional deficit and debt to our economy. It has already wasted $1.1 billion of our tax money. It's money that could have been better used to fix our roads, schools, and other infrastructure to help us compete better in the world."

And this from Marcus. "I don't think we'll truly know if it was worth it until we see who comes to power after Gadhafi. The Middle East is one big mystery, no matter how much we claim to know about what's going on over there."

Please continue the conversation, facebook.com/carolcnn. And thank you, as always, for your comments.

MALVEAUX: Thank you, Carol. Good seeing you.

CNN NEWSROOM continues right after this with Randi Kaye.

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