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Libyan Regime Collapsing; Battle for Tripoli; New Search For Missing Woman; Serious Violence at NFL Game; Hurricane Irene A Threat to U.S.

Aired August 22, 2011 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Republican presidential candidates have been out of the spotlight just a bit today obviously because of the news in Libya, but they are still getting in their two cents. Joe Johns is in Washington with our check of the news percolating on the Political Ticker. Joe, let's talk specifically about their reactions on the situation in Libya, muted comments from most of the main players in the GOP field.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you get the sense their advisers politics ends at the water's edge, which has been sort of traditional in American politics. Statements with more focus on Libya, less focus on the administration. A typical example of that is Mitt Romney calling on the new Libyan government to arrest the mastermind behind the bombing on Pan Am Flight 103, also said the world is about to be rid of Moammar Gadhafi, the brutal tyrant who terrorized the Libyan people, expressing hope that Libya will now move toward a representative form of government supporting freedom, human rights and the rule of law.

Texas Governor Rick Perry and former Utah Governor Jon Huntsman also put out slightly more muted statements, if you will. Perry said events in Libya are cause for cautious celebration, but the lasting impact will depend on ensuring rebel factions form a unified civil government that guarantees personal freedoms. We're hearing that again and again, builds a new relationship with the West, where we're allies, instead of adversaries.

Jon Huntsman said the expected fall of Gadhafi is one chapter in a developing story of a nation in turmoil, and he called Gadhafi a longtime opponent of freedom and said he's hopeful his defeat is a step toward openness and democracy and human rights -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. So these are all reactions from some of these guys who have definitely thrown their hat into the ring. What about a potential contender, Paul Ryan? What news is he making news today?

JOHNS: Right. That's the House Budget Committee. This is the youthful, charismatic conservative who came up with that big idea, plan to cut the budget and get rid of the federal deficit or at least some of it.

He is telling people out there, supporters and non-supporters alike, that he will not be a candidate for president of the United States. He said he appreciates the support from those who are eager to get him into the race. And he's humbled by the encouragement. He's not going to change his mind and going to keep his focus on the Budget Committee in the House of Representatives.

A lot of conservatives really loved Paul Ryan, but it's quite clear that many Democrats out there were planning on using his budget plans, especially for entitlements, as part of the coming campaign. He would have had a lot of polarization issues, if you will, if he were to have run for president.

BALDWIN: So a no go for him. Joe Johns, thank you so much here.

And as we are now at the top of the hour, I want to get back to the top story, a breaking story here -- 42 years of Moammar Gadhafi's tight-fisted control over Libya appear to be nearing an end. Anti- Gadhafi rebels rolling into Tripoli over the weekend now control 90 percent of the capital.

Gunfire can be heard in pockets of the city that are still in the hands of Gadhafi forces. Sara Sidner also reporting not too long ago from Tripoli she saw some tracer fire, but the big question this hour, where is Moammar Gadhafi?

Let's go to Wolf Blitzer, who has been part of our team coverage here of this story.

Wolf, I was watching you for hours on end last night here as the story has been developing. And I want to talk specifically about Libya and Washington because I know the State Department, also the Pentagon have reason to believe that Gadhafi has not left. They're tamping down rumors that perhaps he had left. He has not.

What are you hearing as far as where they think he is, in Tripoli? Might he be still in hiding and what are the odds he will be taken alive?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": Almost all of the experts here in Washington I have spoken to over the past several hours, Brooke, believe he is someplace in Libya, that he has not left the country. And they base that on this notion that, if he had gone, let's say to Chad or Zimbabwe or Venezuela or South Africa or some other country -- Algeria has been mentioned -- U.S. intelligence would have gotten wind of that.

There's no way that could have been kept secret. And remember there's this no-fly zone that NATO has imposed for months over Libya, so you can't just get into a small plane and fly out of there. Somebody would notice.

So the working assumption he's hiding out someplace in Libya. They assume -- a lot of people assume he's in Tripoli someplace. But they don't know that for sure. Maybe he went to one of his other homes in Sirf (ph) or some of the other places in Libya.

But they believe he's hiding out someplace in Libya, and they also believe it's only a matter of time before the rebels find him, capture him and arrest him. BALDWIN: We know that the president several days into his vacation to Martha's Vineyard, he did step out. He spoke just a short time ago and I wrote down specifically describing the transition as looking ahead there in Libya using the words must be peaceful, inclusive and just. Here is part of what the president said this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As we move forward from this pivotal phase, the opposition should continue to take important steps to bring about a transition that is peaceful, inclusive and just.

As the leadership of the TNC has made clear, the rights of all Libyans must be respected.

True justice will not come from reprisals and violence. It will come from reconciliation and a Libya that allows its citizens to determine their own destiny.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So Wolf as we talk about the TNC, or the NTC, this Transitional Council, how involved will, how involved should the U.S. be in that process and also a post-Gadhafi Libya as well?

BLITZER: Well, the senior U.S. diplomats, U.S. diplomats, senior U.S. officials have been meeting with leaders of the TNC, the Transitional National Council, or some people calling it the National Transitional Council.

There's been high-level meetings, including this past weekend. The Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs...

BALDWIN: Jeff Feltman.

BLITZER: ... Jeffrey Feltman, he was in Benghazi meeting with the leadership and I think it's fair to say that they are encouraged, U.S. officials are encouraged that many of the leaders of this transition are responsible and do, in fact, want to lead a transition to some sort of democracy in Libya along the lines as envisaged by the president of the United States.

But the caveat is that they are not all of the transition. There are various elements of the transition and some might not be as courteous, shall we say, as the leadership, some of these experienced Libyan diplomats who defected to the rebel cause.

And so there's deep concern that there could be recriminations, revenge, violence and it could get really ugly in terms of looting and things like that. So they don't just speak with one voice. And as we have pointed out over the past 24 hours, there is no single Nelson Mandela who can do in Libya what Nelson Mandela did in the post- apartheid era in South Africa, lead a smooth, quiet, peaceful transition from a racist policy of apartheid to democracy. And there's no one leader in Libya who is capable of doing that right now. There are teams. And many of them are highly qualified and talented and patriotic Libyans. But, on the other hand, there are some that are not necessarily all that good.

BALDWIN: Yes. And when we talk with these different countries, certainly the situations are not analogous. When you talk about these different -- the Arab springs, different iterations that we have been covering over the past six months, let's just remind everyone how far back it goes. It goes back to December, protests following the death of that street vendor in Tunisia who set himself on fire to protest his treatment by local officials.

We have provided this map. And I just want everyone to take a look here, because you have the presidents of Tunisia, and then we all watched Hosni Mubarak go down in Egypt. We have also watched uprisings in Bahrain, Yemen, Syria. There have been significant protests also in Algeria, Iraq, Jordan, Morocco, Oman, just to give you a big picture of this part of the world.

But now it looks like we're very close, Wolf, to seeing Libya's leader removed from power, reporting just a couple of days ago that President Obama calling for that. Do we think as a direct result of what we're seeing in Tripoli that we might see the heat ratcheted up in Damascus, perhaps the uprisings strengthened there?

BLITZER: I think what's happening now in Tripoli will send a powerful signal to everyone in Syria, and I write about this on my CNN.com/situationroom blog today.

It will embolden the demonstrators who are trying to get rid of President Bashar al-Assad. At the same time, it will embolden President Bashar al-Assad to get tougher with the demonstrators.

But here is the question. How does the military in Syria react to what's going on? Will they continue going ahead and killing unarmed demonstrators, peaceful Syrian civilians who are simply out on the streets protesting the Assad regime? At what point will they begin to question what they're doing?

Will there be cracks, defections? And that will be key, because, in Syria, unlike in Libya, don't expect NATO to get involved with the no-fly zone. Don't expect the United Nations Security Council to impose a no-fly zone or NATO airstrikes in Syria. I don't think that is going to happen, but I do see a powerful message coming from the streets of Libya to the military in Syria potentially telling these officers, you know what, time is not on your side. You better stop killing these unarmed civilians because it's just going to be bad for you, for Syria when all is said and done.

I think the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad, looks with a very nervous eye at what is going on in Libya right now and is deeply concerned. My gut tells me he's just going to crack down even more aggressively.

BALDWIN: You think. We have all been wondering if President Assad will come forward and speak. Have yet to see that.

Wolf Blitzer, thank you so much. Wolf, as always, check out your blog.

Coming up, I will speak live with retired General Wesley Clark about concerns Gadhafi may have -- perhaps that he may launch this last-ditch attack against civilians in Tripoli and what NATO could possibly do about that.

But first we will go live to Tripoli to the streets, where CNN's Sara Sidner standing by live. She has been riding alongside the rebels. Stay right there -- back in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right, as we continue to watch the story here developing out of Tripoli, it appears 80 percent to 90 percent of the city has fallen to rebel forces in that capital city.

Let's straight to Sara Sidner, who has been covering the story. She drove into the city. She is out of the city.

Sara Sidner, excellent job. Just set the scene for me. I understand you are in Zawiyah, which is, what, just a town west of the capital. What have you seen tonight?

SARA SIDNER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right.

We have seen and heard fighting in the city center, more so actually than yesterday. And so things are always changing with these conflicts especially in an urban setting because there are going to be some of these rebels who are coming from all over the country literally coming in to Tripoli. Some of them know the city very well. Some of them do not, and have been training to try to learn the city, to know where to go, but we do understand that there have been some teams of journalists who even have turned corners and found themselves face to face with what could be Gadhafi forces and had to turn tail and run, so a very difficult situation especially when it gets dark.

Hard for the rebels to figure out just what they're dealing with. The one thing to note here is that for days, months really, the Gadhafi regime, Gadhafi himself has said there that would be thousands of people who would rise up, that there was an army waiting for anyone who was going to try and come into the city or try and take back Libya.

That is just not what these rebels or anyone else going into that city has seen. The question everyone has on their minds is, where are all these people who are supposedly prepared to fight for Moammar Gadhafi? There is always going to be the concern that there is something lurking, that there is something that we don't know or something that the rebels don't know.

As you go into a city like that and it's very quiet, it does give you a bit of an eerie feeling to see a capital city with the only traffic being those of the rebels speeding back and forth in their trucks with guns blazing, celebrating and yelling God is great and free Libya.

That's all that we were seeing in the streets for the most part. And then in the evening as it started to turn to dusk and people were about to take their one meal a day, as it is still Ramadan, we noticed some families coming out and they, too, began to celebrate, but, still, mostly the streets are quite empty, all of the businesses shuttered, most of the homes closed -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Sara, I know you have been covering some of these rebel groups for a number of weeks. And just looking back to months ago, when we were reporting on them, the last adjective you would use to describe these men would be sophisticated.

But I want you to characterize for them for me. As we have seen them take down this capital city, how do they appear?

SIDNER: Yes, it's very interesting, because we met a lot of different kinds of rebels, if you will. I mean, they are human beings, they are people who lived in neighborhoods. Some of them, many of them live in Libya. They are people who were planning on trying to protect their families, protect their homes, protect their neighborhoods, and indeed, protect their cities.

Some of them are Libyans who lived outside of the country. There are ex-patriots who decided that they were going to leave their comfortable lives and return to Libya to fight what they felt like was the good fight to try and rid this country of the Gadhafi regime. They came back into this country and had to learn, for example, how to shoot a gun, never having touched a gun before.

And so, within the few months that this has gone on, we're talking about an army that really doesn't have that much training. And that is pretty concerning when you think about what they thought they were going to encounter when they got to Tripoli. And that is why there is a lot of surprise here in the minds of a lot of these opposition fighters. They cannot believe in some ways that they have done this so quickly and just basically 24 hours from getting to the edge of the city they've pushed their way all the way in and have taken over most of the neighborhoods -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: So quickly and as you have, Matthew Chance have been echoing, almost seems too easy. Might Moammar Gadhafi have something up his sleeve, but as you mentioned, those professionally trained troops nowhere to be found in Tripoli.

Sara Sidner, thank you so much. Still the question remains, where is Moammar Gadhafi? And if and when he is captured alive, there is a rising debate about where he might go? How he could be prosecuted? We're getting answers at the United Nations on that one.

Also, the uncertainty in Libya, it's about to have a huge impact on gas prices here at home. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The head of the United Nations says it is time for a peaceful transition of power in Libya. But is that what will happen there? We're all watching the story play out in real time.

And as rebels are solidifying their own control of the capital city, what will Moammar Gadhafi's next move be?

Our Richard Roth live at the U.N. with some answers.

And, Richard, first off here. We know the ICC, International Criminal Court, issued arrest warrants for Gadhafi months ago. What are they saying today about moving forward with the case against him?

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR UNITED NATIONS CORRESPONDENT: Oh, there's many aspects to the international system and the international criminal chief prosecutor, Luis Moreno-Ocampo, he spoke with Libyan transitional council officials by phone to try to go over, is the next stop for Moammar Gadhafi, if apprehended, The Hague to face charges? Those arrest warrants were issued against Gadhafi and his son, and the intelligence chief. That is still unknown whether Libya will set up its own tribunal or whether he, indeed, Gadhafi will be sent to The Hague, like several other former leaders, Milosevic or Charles Taylor, who ended up in The Hague, though justice has been quite slow and deliberate there.

Here at the United Nations, Brooke, Secretary General Ban Ki- moon, in effect, warning or reminding U.N. member countries of their obligations to live up to this International Criminal Court treaty system where he can't be allowed to really stay in a country if they're a party to this International Criminal Court system. Gadhafi could be seeking refuge elsewhere -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: We heard and I took note of the president speaking earlier mentioning the U.N., the next general assembly, asking that next month's meeting support the specific transition and when it comes to this transition because there are a lot of variables still, how can the United Nations help moving forward?

ROTH: The U.N. may not be very good at preventing conflict but it does seem to specialize in post-conflict discussions, improvements, getting a country back on its feet. From East Timor to Sierra Leone, Liberia, the United Nations put personnel in to talk about de-arming, disarming people, demobilizing armies, post-conflict resolutions. The secretary general talked about it. He's had teams working on this issue for months. They were anticipating what occurred in Tripoli overnight.

And, basically, the U.N. is prepared to go in. The secretary- general is calling a big summit later this week with regional organizations. It certainly is, he said, still, there are challenges ahead. It's a hopeful situation there, but there are risks going forward. The U.N. still has to see things stabilize on the ground there.

And you mentioned the general assembly, Brooke. I think we all remember almost two years ago now, Moammar Gadhafi, in front of the U.N. General Assembly, instead of speaking the required 15 or 20 minutes, going for 90 minutes --

BALDWIN: Yes.

ROTH: -- as diplomats dozed off, fidgeted and left Gadhafi ranted about the United Nations and denounced the Security Council.

BALDWIN: Yes. I think it was Jim Clancy who said he sat down with him for two hours in one of the towns in Libya and they could barely string together a sound bite. So, yes.

Richard Roth, thank you so much at the U.N. there.

And we can't talk about Libya without talking about oil. You know, as the situation unfolds, oil prices plummet, the markets will rise.

Let's get a quick look here the big board. Let me look with you. The Dow up a smidge, up 37 points at 10,854, this after four straight weeks of big losses. We've all been watching this together, as has Alison Kosik live for us there at the New York Stock Exchange.

And, Alison, how encouraging is this -- is this rally on the street today?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know what? The rally fizzled out real fast. I mean, we saw the Dow jumped as much as 200 points today. It fizzled out and then it came back, and now, we got some modest gains.

What's happening is here is investors are still tormented by the problems that rattled them last week -- fears of a possible recession here in the U.S. and the big bank problems in Europe. And so, that's why you see this rally that we had really fizzle out because it's not really based on anything concrete. You know, the problems that we had last week, they still remain and until some of these problems are solved or until the market gets some good news, you're really not going to see much of these gains stick -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: With regard to Libya, I know it's the 17th largest, you know, oil producer globally here. So, does that really translate for us? Would it mean cheaper oil, cheaper gas prices?

KOSIK: You're really not going to see it here, because, you know, there are different types of oil and they're traded in different places. You know, oil traded in Europe known as Brent crude sell today about 1 percent. But oil traded here in the U.S., it was up over 2 percent.

So, analysts say what you saw happen in Europe with the prices was really more of a kneejerk reaction and it's expected that prices there are going to go up again because we're not really going to see oil flow right out of Libya right away. It could take months or years because we don't know what kind of shape the infrastructure is in. You know, we really need to assess the damage first. It could be pretty extensive.

Also, the political situation in Libya remains uncertain and that means with uncertainty, you're going to see that fluctuation in prices as well and you're going to see the trade continue to trade on that kind of fear about what will happen with oil out of Libya.

So, at least here in the U.S. you're not going to see prices drop, especially today with prices up over 2 percent -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Yes, wishful thinking I suppose. Alison Kosik, thank you very much.

Behind the Libyan rebels all the way is the international force commanded by NATO. They have monitoring every move of Gadhafi's forces for months and months. Yet, no one knows still where Gadhafi is. We'll speak with former NATO supreme allied commander, Wes Clark, next and I'll ask him about the concern Gadhafi may mount in a last ditch effort.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: OK. As I am taking a look over my shoulder, we have senior international correspondent Matthew Chance. He's been covering what's been happening out of Tripoli, as have many, many international journalists there at the Rixos Hotel, which is the international hotel in the capital city.

And it has been difficult to stay in touch with him simply because the power has been out. He has been seated away from a window on the upper levels of the hotel because there are Gadhafi forces, gunmen on the lobby of the hotel essentially not allowing these journalists to leave. And he has been tweeting, that's been the best way we have been able to keep in touch with his movements, certainly his security is priority number one for us at CNN.

Let me read for you this second to last tweet. First, he says, "On the bright side and with excellent group of journalists at Rixos, we are feeling our way around corridors with candles. No power." And his most recent tweet as four minutes ago, let me just read for you over my shoulder, says, "Very dark, very quiet at the Rixos, some gunshots cracking outside, we raided the hotel larder and got tons of cheese!" So, some humor amidst difficult situation for these journalists there, Matthew Chance.

And I encourage you to follow him and his movements there in Tripoli at this hotel -- MChanceCNN is his handle.

Keep in mind the time there, it is well after 10:00, just about 10:30 in the evening in Libya. Rebels in control of most of the capital in Tripoli. In fact, the numbers of reporting, 80 percent, 90 percent in control. Still no word on the fate or the whereabouts of Moammar Gadhafi.

Joining us now from Quebec City, former NATO supreme commander, General Wesley Clark.

General Clark, let me just begin with this. Can NATO help the rebels find Gadhafi? Can the CIA help? Because we know they're in there somewhere.

WESLEY CLARK, FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: If he's talking, yes. But if he's just in a bunker somewhere, burrowed down underneath a house in some nondescript part of the city, probably not. But he's going to have to have communications in and out one way or the other. People will be coming in and out. And given enough time, yes, he'll be found.

But it seems to me unlikely he's going to simply hold out there. The way this has to work is the rebels have to find exactly where their limits of control are in the city. They have to push Gadhafi's forces back into a perimeter and continue to constrict that perimeter. And if Gadhafi's not there, that perimeter is going to collapse pretty quickly. If he's there, putting his personal charisma on the line behind it, then that's how you'll know.

BALDWIN: I know as you were on last night, we were talking and you could see the pictures of the rebels out in Green Square, Martyr's Square, the momentum was palpable. But they do appear to have lost the momentum, at least according to Sara Sidner who's been reporting in and out of Tripoli.

My question is this: did that allow Gadhafi a little time. Let's say he is in Tripoli, as per what the State Department and Pentagon believe. Is that buying him some time, General Clark, to dig his heels in and --

CLARK: Of course.

BALDWIN: -- and hatch a last-ditch effort attack?

CLARK: Yes. And that's exactly what shouldn't be allowed. Just as a for instance, remember when we invaded Iraq and we went into Baghdad, the U.S. 3rd Infantry Division busted into the city with an armored column and completely prevented the organization of any coherent defense. And it was over in a couple of days.

And in this case, although it's not a whole city, whatever district it is that Gadhafi's forces are in, the rebels have to have enough organization to push into that district to --

BALDWIN: Do they have that?

CLARK: -- isolate their spots.

That's the question. Last night, obviously it wasn't clear they had much organization and that's not surprising. But what we would hope is that over the next day, they would get that organization again. They would assign distinct sectors of responsibility to subordinate commands, that leaders would be told to move in a certain direction, report what you find. Report any resistance, and would eventually bump into whatever stronghold Gadhafi has.

BALDWIN: We know that NATO can only do so much from the air when it comes to this battle in Tripoli. What kind of help will these rebels have on the ground if Gadhafi is holed up somewhere ready to attack?

CLARK: Well, it's not clear they'll need any help on the ground if Gadhafi is held up there. If it is a command-and-control headquarters, then NATO could strike it just as it's struck previous command-and-control headquarters. It is easier to pick out armored vehicles.

It's always tough when you're striking at a city, but NATO has the precision strike equipment to be able to hit a building and not hit other buildings around it.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you about this. Speaking of NATO, we have just learned here the U.S. and NATO for the last up couple of weeks have been speaking with the National Transitional Council about securing Libya's stockpiles. It's well-known that Gadhafi stockpiled mustard gas, saran gas the Libyans have. What can be done, General Clark, to secure those stockpiles?

CLARK: Well, it's not clear where all of the stockpiles are. And what's going to have to be done is immediately upon the surrender of Gadhafi and his forces, an inventory is going to have to be made of the remaining locations, who is in charge of them and so forth.

There were rumors months ago that terrorist organizations were trying to smuggle that nerve agent out of Libya, that some of it was stored in eastern Libya in the Benghazi area. And that terrorists had already located it and tried to move it through Sudan. I've been unable to confirm the accuracy of those rumors.

BALDWIN: Safe to assume that NATO has very much surveilled these stockpiles and knows exactly where they are and that no one has touched them in?

CLARK: I think that that's - I wouldn't make that assumption.

BALDWIN: Really?

CLARK: What I would hope there would be immediately upon Gadhafi's surrender that there would be a U.N. Security Council resolution. And in that Security Council resolution, NATO would be authorized to send a survey team on the ground to find those special weapons.

BALDWIN: As that is, then I guess still one variable in this story. Former NATO supreme allied commander General Wesley Clark, thank you.

Coming up next, even if Moammar Gadhafi relinquishes power in his home of Libya, it would certainly not be an easy road ahead. That's because Gadhafi has stripped that country of any kind of political structure. Keep in mind, he's been in charge for 42 years. There's not even anything close to resemble a constitution there.

So, what will it take to rebuild and how involved will the United States be? We'll talk about that with P.J. Crowley, former spokesperson for the State Department, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BALDWIN: It is now well after dark in Libya. It is just after 10:30 at night there. Western-backed rebels are in control of most of the capital. And the White House calling on Moammar Gadhafi to give it up, give up the fight.

Joining me from Carlisle, Pennsylvania, former State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley.

Mr. Crowley, nice to have you on. We know that the United States vowing to stand by Libya during this hopeful, peaceful, inclusive transition -- all these adjectives we hear from the president, the State Department when it comes to this transition, this democratic transition.

Do the Libyan people know, though, given the history of the 42 years, do they even know what democracy is?

P.J. CROWLEY, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: Obviously, they don't have any tradition with this or the institutions that can contribute to a participatory government. This is the primary challenge that the TNC will face, assuming they're able to finally locate and depose Moammar Gadhafi.

For 42 years he hasn't allowed any kind of a rival power center to develop, so that some of the institutions that we take for granted are institutions that will have to be built more or less as the airplane is in flight.

BALDWIN: This despot, this totalitarianism regime, you know. Been in power for 42 years. So, when you look at nation building, P.J., what needs to be done?

CROWLEY: Well, I think first of all, it will be institution building. There is a tribal structure within Tripoli that will provide some support and structure to what happens going forward.

The first challenge for the TNC is to prove that it's more than just a regional entity. That it can, in fact, become a credible national force and vehicle to move Libya through this transition. And there's a lot of history that says that that's going to be difficult for the TNC to do. So, there will be this window of opportunity -- perhaps look at Tunisia, for example, where the people gave the interim government an opportunity but have been challenging that government for months now to do better at transforming the society there and transforming the daily lives of those citizens. That would be the same kind of challenge for the TNC going forward in Libya.

Unfortunately, Libya does not necessarily have the strong institutions like you see in a country like Egypt. Egypt could fall back on a respected institution like the military, which has been shepherding its transitions. So, Libya is going so need a lot of support, but by and large this is Libyans coming together, recognizing the opportunity that they have.

BALDWIN: We do know, though, that thus far the U.S. obviously is involved. Your former State Department colleague, Jeffrey Feltman, has been in Benghazi talking to the opposition, to the the TNC, asking they be democratic, asking that they be politically and geographically inclusive. Going forward specifically in terms of the U.S., how involved will we be in the transition?

CROWLEY: Well, certainly the United States and international community will be in the way to help. One of the things that Libya will need very quickly is money. And one of the central actions by the U.N. will be unlocking the funds that have been frozen for some time to make sure there are resources available for the Libyans to move forward.

Then there will be this technical assistance. What kind of relationship will the security forces have with the people? What kind of rule of law will be developed? What kind of electoral support would be required for what kind of system that the Libyans want to put in place? These are areas where the international community and the United States have expertise. That's the kind of support that the TNC will need.

BALDWIN: You mentioned those frozen assets. I know, I've seen figures $33 billion to $36 billion in frozen assets that the U.S. has. But what about just in terms of the U.S. taxpayer, how much more will we pay to Libya?

CROWLEY: Well, Libya has resources. They have energy. Their energy can provide them assistance. Tripoli is a - you know, don't want to overstate this but it is a modernizing city. So Libya has capabilities.

One of the key questions will be, is this thing quick and relatively peaceful? If that is, the transition will be relatively quickly, and the humanitarian situation will be fairly manageable. If there's a fight to the death between the rebels and those forces that are still loyal to Gadhafi, then obviously the prospect of greater damage is likely and the humanitarian crisis, the flow of people leaving Libya for neighboring countries, that's where the crisis could develop and that's where significant international support will be required.

But going forward, it will be less about money and more about the kind of technical assistance that enables Libya to build a civil society.

BALDWIN: P.J. Crowley, former State Department spokesman, thank you very much, sir. Appreciate it.

CROWLEY: All right, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And now this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARA SIDNER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We are here in the middle of Tripoli.

(CROWD SHOUTING) (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN's Sara Sidner just bracing for cover there. Caught in the midst of the chaos in Tripoli. Zero hour, hit this capital.

Coming up, a behind-the-scenes look at how the past 48 hours unfolded and what happened. This is brand-new. Don't miss this.

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BALDWIN: Just two days ago, CNN's Sara Sidner was embedded with rebel forces just 30 miles outside of the Libyan capital. As they began to advance on the city, she was there every step of the way. Watch as she takes us to the front lines, her journey into the battle for Tripoli.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We are about 30 miles outside of Tripoli so we are very, very, very close. Last night, the rebels were telling us that they got help from NATO and that is one of the ways that they were able to secure this refinery.

There are rebels inside the city of Tripoli. They are beginning the uprising there. Now these are rebels that were already placed inside the city just waiting and watching for their time to begin wreaking havoc on the city and trying to get Gadhafi forces out of the city. But we are now just a few kilometers away from the capital.

FATHI BAJA, LIBYAN NATIONAL TRANSITIONAL COUNCIL (through translator): A lot of Gadhafi troops are withdrawing and giving up their weapons outside of Tripoli, but inside the capital as well. It's going easily. It's easy.

SAIF GADHAFI, MOAMMAR GADHAFI'S SON (through translator): There's chatter in the raising of the white flag we will not talk about. It is rejecting completely and not because of Moammar Gadhafi or Saif al Islam. This is rejected by the people of Libya.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's difficult to give an exact kind of a scale of how much territory is still in the hands of Colonel Gadhafi, but clearly his forces are on the back foot at the moment and it all seems to be crumbling rather quickly.

SIDNER: We are in Green Square here in the middle of Tripoli. What we're seeing are rebels are all over the Square. There are really no civilians, mostly men with guns in the square. But we're also seeing people running, there's a lot of gunfire, they say there are snipers, we all had to pull back. The situation is very tense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We are now liberated.

UNIDENTIFIED RESIDENT OF TRIPOLI: Today, people are going out. People are talking on the phone. We couldn't even talk on the phone before. Most of us had our phones closed because we were scared, but there are no more fears. No more. Gadhafi is gone. We don't have him anymore. Game over!

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Sara Sidner covering that battle in Tripoli, Sara, thank you.

President Obama is weighing just this afternoon from vacation on the ongoing situation in Tripoli, giving a statement on the situation there. Is the administration worried about who takes over once Gadhafi is out of power? We will take you live to Martha's Vineyard next.

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BALDWIN: All right, back to the situation in Libya. President Obama did speak a short time ago from his vacation in Martha's Vineyard. Let's listen quickly to the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The situation is still very fluid. There remains a degree of uncertainty and there are still regime elements who pose a threat. But this much is clear, the Gadhafi regime is coming to an end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now from Martha's Vineyard is Dan Lothian. Dan does the White House believe all these Libyan rebels, the National Transitional Council can actually establish order in Libya, and is there any talk at all of an international peacekeeping force?

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, on your first point, you know, I think the White House has now for some time been putting its full support behind the rebels and you heard from the president today that the administration will continue.

And the U.S. and its allies will continue to provide the support as they try to make that transition a peaceful transition, as the president put it, to democracy. How much and how big the involvement of the U.S. will be is unclear.

The administration, top aides making it clear that no U.S. boots will be on the ground there. That the strategy for U.S. boots on the ground remains unchanged, but there are a lot of questions about whether or not the rebel groups will be able to carry out that transition and certainly carry it out in a peaceful way.

BALDWIN: Also, Dan, when the president was talking about how initially the United States took the lead militarily last spring, and then handed things over to NATO, what about the rebuilding process, this hope for democracy in a nation that has not known that in decades? Who foots the bill for that? LOTHIAN: Well that's a very good question as the president himself pointed out that this situation is far from certain. There are a lot of challenges that remain, and so this will be a long process in terms of how Libya is able to rebuild that next government.

And what exactly the role will be of the U.S. One thing I can tell you is that this future process is part of the discussions that the president was conducting with his top aides. He had another high level conference call with his national security team.

This follows another one that he had yesterday, and that is part of the focus, figuring out what the role of the U.S. will be in helping these rebels rebuild the government there in Libya.

BALDWIN: Dan Lothian, thank you very much with the latest there from the administration. Also, any minute now, switching gears here, forecasters will be releasing the updated path of Hurrican Irene. We'll tell you where it's heading now and if the U.S. Coast is still in the bull's eye.

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BALDWIN: We'll check in with Chad Myers in just a moment with the latest developments on Hurricane Irene. But first your top stories as we're learning some new developments in the search for that missing woman, missing for multiple weeks now in Aruba.

For the very first time police have searched the northern part of the Dutch island interviewing several new witnesses. They had been looking in the southern part of the island where Robyn Gardner had been traveling with her companion.

They disappeared according to him while they were snorkelling. Police say they did not find anything new in this new search. The 35- year-old Gardner was last seen back on August 2nd. Her companion, Gary Giordano is in custody in suspicion of involvement in her presumed death. He says he's done nothing wrong.

And serious violence breaking out at a football game. Look at this video. Men throwing fists, San Francisco 49ers fans and Oakland Raiders fans clearly beating each other up in the middle of the stands.

Where did this happen, a pre-season game, just this past Saturday at Candlestick Park, but it gets worse. Two men were shot and wounded in the parking lot after that game. One of the men now being treated for life-threatening injuries.

A police sergeant told local papers the man was wearing a t- shirt with a derogatory comment about the 49ers. The second man suffered less serious injuries. Another man was beaten unconscious in the stadium men's bathroom. Police are investigating whether team rivalry is to blame for these incidents.

And as we mentioned a lot of eyes on this hurricane, the very first hurricane of the Atlantic season is officially here, could take aim at parts of the south eastern United States. Here is the radar, Irene churning through the Caribbean right now. Maximum winds 80 miles an hour.

In Puerto Rico, Irene has already visited there, early this morning. You can see all the rain, more than 10 inches on that island. Now that Irene is back into warmer water, it is gaining strength not good news for areas in its path.

CNN meteorologist, Chad Myers, joins me here and tell me where she's headed?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: We are still days away from that. I'm getting a lot of tweets, people asking can I go to Disney World? There's no chance that I can tell you that today.

BALDWIN: What is the now?

MYERS: There are models that go all the way to Miami, all the way to Cape Cod with a major hurricane in between, 120-mile-per-hour land falling hurricane anywhere Miami to Massachusetts. It's that wide right now.

That's what you get when you're talking four to five days out, Brooke. It's a big storm. It's gathering strength and you just showed the radar. It is no longer over land. Now there's a little bit of influence from the Dominican Republic getting some dry air and it's mixing in with some of these big high mountains there along Haiti's ridge there on the south part of the country.

The entire area though is going to turn to the right. This is going to be one of those right-turning storms and where does it finally not turn right any longer and go straight into something? Go straight into land?

Why I said Massachusetts because there's a potential this stays on the right edge of the cone and makes landfall somewhere up in the northeast. I talked to Rob Marciano on the tweet he said maybe Iceland if it keeps going to the right.

They can do that. They can keep turning to the right because by the time you get up here to Georgia and the Carolinas, the wind aloft is from the west so that's why it keeps wanting to turn to the right because the wind comes from the west.

If you've been to the British Virgin Islands, the wind is from the east and that's why hurricanes come from the east, those are called trade winds. The trade winds eventually turn as the storm turns and that's why Miami is still in, Jacksonville still in it, Charleston, Wilmington, anywhere up the east coast all the way to Oakercoke Island, and even to Long Island, remember the storm that rolled through, and all the way up into Massachusetts as the potential.

BALDWIN: For now it's Puerto Rico and Haiti.

MYERS: It is moving out of Puerto Rico, Brooke, but there's significant rain. You just came back from Beicas, did you not?

BALDWIN: I did. Good for me.

MYERS: The ferries to Beicas and back were completely shut down. People were stuck out on that island. That wouldn't be fun out there with all this rain coming down and there is flooding going on in San Juan and there were be flooding in the D.R. and Haiti.

BALDWIN: You're watching it, we'll be watching it. We're also, Chad, thank you, watching the breaking news here out of Libya.

I'm going to hand it over to Wolf Blitzer. "THE SITUATION ROOM" starts right now.