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Gunfire, Mortars Echo Over Tripoli; East Coast Inspects Quake Damage; Why Earthquake was Felt Up and Down East Coast; Escape from the Rixos Hotel; Celebrations of Freedom in Tripoli; Mad Dog Of The Middle East; Loose Weapons In Libya; The Hunt For Gadhafi; Hactivists Versus BART

Aired August 24, 2011 - 12:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We're going to get out of the White House briefing.

Top of the hour. I'm Suzanne Malveaux. Want to get you up to speed.

Journalists held inside a Tripoli hotel for five days got out today. Gadhafi loyalists had refused to let them leave.

CNN's Matthew Chance was among some 35 journalists who were detained at gunpoint. He says the demeanor of Gadhafi's men changed once they realized that the regime was finished.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): We've been living in fear for the past five days because we've been, you know, really being held against our will by these, you know, crazy gunmen who were in the lobby of our hotel wearing green bandanas, waving Gadhafi flags, wielding around their Kalashnikov assault rifles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Celebratory gunfire in Tripoli, but sniper fire and mortar rounds are still flying at Moammar Gadhafi's compound, even though rebels seized it 24 hours ago. Rebels who hold Tripoli International Airport are also taking fire. They think Gadhafi's fighters are trying to clear a path for him to escape.

Our CNN's Arwa Damon is there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARWA DAMON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Rebel commanders say that they actually believe that the battle is shifting its focus to the airport and its vicinity. They were telling us last night that they believe that this is possibly where we could be seeing the final stance between Gadhafi forces and these rebel fighters. They have really been struggling to try to take control over this area, even though they did manage to get their hands on a significant amount of weapons that they found buried right next to the tarmac here. (END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: The United Nations says it's going to take steps to turn over frozen Libyan assets to the rebels' political leadership now. There are estimates the value of those assets, they vary widely, into the hundreds of billions of dollars.

Well, rebels who ransacked Gadhafi's compound found a whole lot of weapons, but not Moammar Gadhafi. He has not been seen. But Libyans have heard from the fugitive dictator. Gadhafi called Libyan radio stations and other broadcasters. He called his withdrawal from his compound a tactical move.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOAMMAR GADHAFI, LIBYAN LEADER (through translator): I call to all Libyans, tribesmen, youth, seniors, women, and loyal fighters to clear the city of Tripoli and eliminate the criminals, traitors, and rats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: In Libya, gunfire, mortar rounds, they're in the air again today. Fighting intensified in several places, including the airport, Moammar Gadhafi's compound, as well. That's in Tripoli.

CNN's Sara Sidner, she is joining us live from Tripoli.

And Sara, give us a sense of what is taking place on the ground where you are.

SARA SIDNER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's been a combination of calm and unsettling. People start celebrating again, and off goes the gunfire, and they're using heavy arms fire. You can hear some of it going off now.

The cars, going around and around what is now being called Martyrs' Square by these -- by the opposition. And what we're seeing is fewer and fewer residents.

I did today see for the first time somebody break down in tears. There was a mother who was walking along the street, and all the gunfire began to just overwhelm her. She says she was afraid, and one of her brothers came and picked her up and took her home. She started crying because it was just too much for her.

The whole ground shakes when some of these -- like that -- I'm not even sure what that is. All right.

I want to give you this picture. Can we -- I'm sorry. Let's turn the camera.

We are seeing them break down buildings now. We are seeing them break down buildings here in Martyrs' Square. If you'll look straight back, they're blowing through that building.

I have a guest with me today. His name is Salam Ali (ph).

Salam, you're from Tripoli, are you not?

SALAM ALI, RESIDENT: Yes, I'm from Tripoli.

SIDNER: Can you tell me what that building is that they are blowing apart, the one with the green sign on it? What does that say?

ALI: They are the government departments (ph). Now, I don't know what's happening there. But maybe --

SIDNER: Is that a government building?

ALI: Yes, this is government building before. But now it's -- the government is gone now.

SIDNER: OK.

So what he's saying is that there is a government building there, and they're blowing it apart. It may be just -- he said there's nobody over there, there's no snipers over there. They're just blowing it apart out of frustration and to get rid of that sign, basically, that green sign there.

And so the situation here, obviously one where people are trying to show the regime, again, especially after hearing from Gadhafi on the phone, trying to show the regime who is really in control. And if they can blow apart buildings like that, then certainly -- and there's no one there to stop them -- then certainly the rebels seem to have it here in the city.

MALVEAUX: Sara, explain to us the significance of that, if you would, blowing up -- blowing through a green sign. What does that mean?

SIDNER: Gadhafi's color is green. He had this green book, there are green flags. If a flag is just green flying, that means you support Gadhafi. And so that is a government building.

People frustrated with the Gadhafi regime have decided to turn their guns on that building. They also ended up shooting a bit of this building.

This is the old city. And behind the old city, just down a little very quaint corridor is where they used to sell a lot of Gadhafi paraphernalia.

People just showing their frustration here, but it's unfortunate because the opposition really wants Tripoli to be its capital. They want this to be the capital of the country.

They said they want this to be a united country. If they start breaking apart their own infrastructure, of which there is not enough in this country -- everyone complained that during the Gadhafi regime, that they didn't have the things that they would normally need in a society, like really good schools. Most people can't even get mail. They don't have addresses.

But they do have some of these old, lovely buildings from the time of the Italian invasion here that are left behind. If they start breaking apart their own city, there's going to be a lot of cleanup to deal with.

MALVEAUX: And Sara, just if you could, tell us, what is taking place behind you? I know there seems to be cars passing by. Are there some folks who are just living their life, going about their life? Or is everyone now on the ground engaged in what is happening here?

SIDNER: Everyone's engaged in what is happening. And by engaged, I don't mean that they're all taking part in shooting and fighting and blowing off rounds, but families are coming out to see what's going on. Very few families, I might add.

They're coming out to see what's going on. They're in their cars, driving around the square to celebrate.

This is a gentleman here. He's not holding a gun.

You're a resident here. Why did you come out today? Why did you come out to see what was going on, even with all of this gunfire?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First of all, I would like to say that now we go out because we need to see my family and my cousin because, Tripoli, many people, they leave here. They just live in Tripoli. But actually, they come from Zawiya and Benghazi.

SIDNER: So they come from different places.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

SIDNER: Are you worried about all of this gunfire? It is not safe with all the gunfire going.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, I'm sorry, I couldn't --

SIDNER: Are you worried about the gunfire, all the shooting in the air. Does that scare you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, I'm not scared. But this is just a feeling about the risk (ph). Many people, they explode (ph) here, and they're very happy. Many people are very happy. But I would like to say something inside the country here.

I would say about the water, when you drink. The water, it's thick with trixin (ph). It's a trixin (ph), you know? Gadhafi put trixin (ph) in the water.

SIDNER: OK.

So there are people that are very scared, he's saying, that the water has been contaminated by Gadhafi. That was a rumor that went around other cities, as well, people afraid that, suddenly, the water was contaminated, that there was some sort of chemical agent in the water that could hurt people. And so that is obviously another one of those rumors that has resurfaced here in Tripoli.

Now, we heard that same rumor when we were in Misrata, and another rumor similar to that when we were in Benghazi. We don't know if there's any validity to that. We do know that no one has seen Gadhafi or his sons in the past 48 hours, and everyone is wondering exactly where he is.

MALVEAUX: Sara, thank you.

I want to go directly to sound that we have from a White House briefing from Martha's Vineyard. This is one of the deputy press secretaries. They have talked about Moammar Gadhafi, saying there's no evidence that he's left the country. Let's listen in here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: You know, what I can tell you is the developments that we're seeing are an indication that the Gadhafi's regime's 42-year grip on power in Libya is slipping.

And that is, frankly, a testament to the resolve and courage of the Libyan people, that over the course of the last six months, that they've been able to make significant progress on that front. And that progress has no doubt been aided by the efforts of NATO and our partners in the region who have provided some pretty significant support on that front.

QUESTION: Where does the U.S. think he may be hiding? Do you think he's still in Libya, not in Libya?

EARNEST: As I mentioned on Monday, there's still no evidence to indicate that he has left. All right?

QUESTION: Thanks.

EARNEST: Alistair (ph).

QUESTION: Thanks, Josh. What can you tell us about --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: So the White House making it clear they believe that Moammar Gadhafi is still in Libya. The big question, whether or not that he has any power that he can hold on to, as the developments there, urban warfare, the compound taken over. And still, no known whereabouts of that country's leader.

Want to take a look at what's ahead "On the Rundown."

First, a rare earthquake strikes in Virginia. No major injuries reported, but there is a lot of cleaning up to do.

And two national landmarks closed now as inspectors consider how to repair earthquake damage in D.C.

And then, Libya's oil. As the Gadhafi regime falls, what happens to the country's biggest asset?

And where is Moammar Gadhafi? We're going to take a look at the potential hiding places.

And finally, Hurricane Irene, powerful, destructive, getting stronger. Much of the United States' East Coast is now on alert.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

MALVEAUX: We're going to talk to a seismologist about what happened on the East Coast right after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: Well, they're used to getting all shook up in California, but not on the East Coast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID HARMON, GENERAL MANAGER, G&C TIRE AND AUTO: How you doing? I'm David Harmon. I'm the general manager of G&C Tire and Auto. Just thought we'd take this opportunity to show you our new customer waiting room -- did you feel that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Today, people are inspecting the damage from an earthquake that was felt from Georgia to New England. Now, this video was shot when a TV commercial was actually being taped.

Now, the quake was centered about 80 miles southwest of Washington, D.C., but it was felt in more than a dozen states. Its epicenter was the tiny town of Mineral, Virginia. There was some damage there in the nation's capital, as well.

And our CNN's Brian Todd has that report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There may be an aftershock, but you're allowed to go back in the building at this time.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): To millions of people on the East Coast, this was the big one.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Can you believe that you've just witnessed an earthquake in Washington, D.C.?

TODD: It's the strongest quake to hit the Virginia area since 1897, a 5.8, rattling nerves and shaking buildings in the nation's capital. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I really and truly thought it was some kind of bomb because I never felt nothing like that before in Washington.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was on the bus, and the bus did a shimmy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know what was happening. I thought the building was about to collapse.

TODD: The quake was centered near Mineral, Virginia, about 40 miles from Richmond and 83 miles from D.C. The quake could be felt all the way in Martha's Vineyard, where the president is on vacation.

Shaking was felt in more than a dozen states in all, even into Canada. NBC's cameras focused on the White House caught the shaking as it happened. Some of the masonry of the National Cathedral fell off.

And the National Park Service says engineers found a crack near the top of the Washington Monument. It will be closed indefinitely to keep visitors safe.

Many government buildings, including the Pentagon, were evacuated, but no major damage was reported. Further north, in New York City, people ran from skyscrapers, down flights of stairs as they swayed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The building just shook back and forth. It actually rocked.

TODD: Near the epicenter of the quake, the North Anna nuclear power station, the earthquake triggering an automatic shutdown there. Diesel generators kicked in to keep the reactor cores cool, but I spoke to a plant executive who wanted to make sure we knew everything was under control.

(on camera): What do you want to say to the public as far as right now?

DAN STODDARD, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, NUCLEAR OPERATIONS, DOMINION VIRGINIA POWER: Well, the power plant is safe, the operator responded well. Both units are shut down, maintaining a safe shutdown condition. There was no release of radioactivity.

TODD (voice-over): Overnight, Tuesday into Wednesday, power from the main grid was restored to the plant. That power fuels the cooling systems for the reactor and the spent fuel pools, but both reactors remain shut down.

Brian Todd, CNN, Mineral, Virginia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: There are national landmarks that are being inspected today for earthquake damage.

And Chad Myers, he's joining us again. Chad, what do we know? We know that there are some cracks that are actually in the Washington Monument, and the National Cathedral is extensively damaged, as well.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: A lot of things are closed in D.C. today because of the inspections going on and because of the damage that actually occurred. So, yes, a 5.8, probably not a big deal, or so much of a big deal in California. But the buildings that were doing the shaking yesterday, not made to withstand that. They're not insulated or isolated from the ground.

First thing we take you to is the Capitol. The Capitol was evacuated. People are allowed to go back in today, get their stuff, and get out. A limited time there.

The Smithsonian Institution, that red brick building that is outside, that is closed for the day. Interior cracks in that building. The entire Smithsonian, all of the museums, are closed today for inspection, but not because there's anything that's been seen so far. That's all really -- literally for just precaution.

And the top spires, three of the four of the top Washington National Cathedral, falling off. They're five to eight feet tall. Just the shaking, literally, just took it out.

Now, the Washington Monument area is open, other than the 100 feet around kind of that radius, because there are cracks in some of the rocks. I've been told stones, and before that, I was told only the masonry, only the grout between the stones. We'll have to see as they get up there and take a look at it.

The Lincoln Memorial, Jefferson Memorial were closed for a while. They're back, reopened again.

And, of course, what's going on this weekend back in D.C., right here, the Martin Luther King Memorial. They say everything is OK, everything is good, and all of the celebrations will still take place -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Oh, that's good. I know they're also waiting to see what Hurricane Irene does, whether or not that's going to be flooded out in the East Coast, as well. So it's going to be really interesting to see what happens this weekend.

MYERS: Certainly.

MALVEAUX: But I want to talk a little bit about the earthquake with an expert, Glenn Rix. He's a professor at Georgia Tech.

Thank you so much.

PROF. GLENN RIX, GEORGIA TECH: Nice to be here.

MALVEAUX: You know what? You think about it, it was kind of amazing, right? When it happened yesterday, it was hard to believe, because you had people -- it was New York, it was here in Atlanta, it was up the East Coast.

Why was it so widespread? How did that happen?

RIX: It has to do with the difference in the bedrock between the eastern United States, east of the Rockies, and the western United States. In the eastern United States, the bedrock is a lot harder. Earthquake waves travel much further, and therefore people feel them over a much larger distance.

MALVEAUX: Do we -- should we be worried about some of the things -- when you here in Washington, right, the Washington Monument, with the cracks and the cathedral -- that there might be serious structural damage to some of these monuments and buildings?

RIX: I think there is cause for concern. I mean, that's the type of building that is most prone to damage in an earthquake, are these older masonry and brick structures. They're very brittle. The earthquake shaking really affects them quite severely, and we see the kind of damage that has resulted.

MALVEAUX: We're tag-teaming you. We've got Chad here to ask some questions.

MYERS: People have asked me about this aftershock/foreshock thing. And I've described the foreshock as, if it's going to be a bigger earthquake, it's usually quite quickly, an hour or so after it. We are just going to see aftershocks now, correct?

RIX: I believe so, yes. Exactly. I think we're likely to see them for weeks, even months. Many of them will be so small, that people won't even notice them, but, yes, there will be a fairly long aftershock sequence from this earthquake.

MYERS: And they are shorter in duration. This was almost a minute for some people.

RIX: Exactly.

MYERS: An aftershock is seconds?

RIX: Yes. The smaller the earthquake magnitude, generally the shorter the earthquake is, as well, yes.

MYERS: But things are broken now. Buildings are cracked. And a little bit of shaking can do damage, because there's ready some cracks in the foundation, cracks in places. So if it starts to shake, it's time to either get under the table, do whatever, if it shakes.

RIX: That's true, yes.

MALVEAUX: And Glenn, what about people's homes here? Because should they be checking things like if pipes are cracked or wood split on a deck or something, things that might cause problems later on down the road?

RIX: Yes, they should look for those things. What you have to be aware of, though, is those things may, in fact, have existed for many years. And after the earthquake, your awareness is just heightened, and you go looking for those things. So you just need to be careful that those may have existed before, but it's prudent to go check and make sure your house is safe.

MYERS: If you smell gas anywhere, you need to call the gas company, because the infrastructure -- things could happen that we don't even know. And things could still happen in the next couple of days that you can't smell yet. But if you smell gas, you need to make sure that you know that that's a possibility.

RIX: Absolutely.

MYERS: Get out of the house and get to the gas company.

RIX: Yes, that's true.

MALVEAUX: All right.

Thank you so much, Glenn. Appreciate it.

Thank you, Chad.

RIX: Thank you.

MYERS: Sure.

MALVEAUX: We're going to go back to Matthew Chance, who was actually released. He was being held by Gadhafi loyalists. We're going to be able to talk to Matthew Chance after this very quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: I want to go live now to a picture that we have all been waiting to see. That is our CNN's Matthew Chance. He is live in Martyrs' Square.

And Matthew, it is so great to see you right now. We've been talking to you throughout the last couple of hours. You're now in front of the cameras.

And just describe for us -- I know you've got a big crowd behind you. What's going on?

(SINGING)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they're celebrating their freedom. They're not celebrating my freedom, they're celebrating Libya's freedom, obviously.

But I've been given loads of flowers. I don't think they realize we've just gone through this ordeal of being held captive, essentially, in the Rixos Hotel. And it's only now that we've come out to speak to you because we've been essentially set free. It's amazed us. The whole country, the whole city is celebrating its freedom. And, you know, I feel sort of a connection with them. I feel a connection with them, because I'm celebrating mine, as well.

MALVEAUX: Matthew, you look great. You know, give us a sense of where you are, how you got there. Have you had a chance to talk to your family?

CHANCE: No, I haven't yet. No, I haven't had a chance. I know that the desk, my foreign desk -- thank you.

My foreign desk in Atlanta has spoken to my family so I know they're aware that I'm OK. They'll also be watching this, obviously.

But, you know, it's been such an amazing roller coaster experience for this country, really. I mean it's been incredible.

One of the things -- guys, guys, please, just one second. One of the things that was so amazing about what happened today is that the guys that were holding us hostage, essentially, they didn't know that any of this had taken place outside the perimeter of the hotel. They thought that the country was still in the control of Colonel Gadhafi. They didn't realize that outside the hotel doors the whole world for these people has changed.

And when they finally realized that, when they finally realized that there was no reason for them to stay there and carry out these bizarre orders to sort of keep the journalists in the hotel and not let them out, when they accepted that, they literally cast away their weapons and said they were sorry to us and said you're now free to go. And we just organized these vehicles, these cars, and they took us out. It was the international committee of the Red Cross. They took us out to a safe location somewhere else.

And it's just been amazing coming out of Tripoli because all these people are so happy. They don't even know about our situation obviously. They've just focused on the fact that their country, their entire country, from their point of view, is now free.

MALVEAUX: Matthew, do you believe those guards? You know, you said that they seemed happy. They didn't have any idea that Gadhafi's regime was in the state it was. That it had, in many ways, it had folded outside of the hotel. Are these the kind of folks that are going to take off their uniforms and meld back into the crowd? How do we know that they are really happy about what is taking place?

CHANCE: It's a good question. It's a good question. And I think the answer is something like -- hold on a second. Guys, guys, please, let me just -- let me just answer the question, please. Guys. I think the answer is that, you know, I came down here a couple of weeks ago to Green Square and nobody wanted to talk to me. Nobody wanted to have the camera pointed at them. Nobody wanted to speak to a foreign journalist because they said that, you know, oh, you're all liars, you're all NATO spies. Look what you're doing to our country.

But look at them now. These are the same people. These are local people. These aren't people that have come in from another place. These are the same people that we saw in Green Square, more or less, a couple of weeks ago. But look at the mood change. It's entirely different, you know.

And I think once people in this country having experienced 42 years of Colonel Gadhafi, that autocratic, you know, dictator, it's going to take them a long time before they accept -- it maybe took them a long time to expect -- maybe not a long time, but it was a sort of a big step to accept that that figure is no longer calling the shots in this country. And once they accept that, this is the reaction amongst these people, the reaction of our guards was to throw away their weapons.

MALVEAUX: Matthew, we are so happy to see you there that you are well, that you have a smile on your face, that you have flowers in your hand, that clearly the crowd is also happy to see you.

We're going to let you go. But, again, excellent reporting. We are so glad that you are there, that you're brave, you're courageous, and you do such a good job at what you do and that your family is aware that you're also just fine.

Thank you, Matthew.

Moammar Gadhafi says that he's going to fight to the death to stay in power. But while his regime is crumbling around him, he's still hiding. That's a far cry from the dynamic leader, right, who first appeared on the world stage more than four decades ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice-over): In 1969, a handsome 27-year-old army officer named Moammar Gadhafi vowed to change the world. Overthrowing Libya's king, he immediately took control over nearly everything -- business, media, military and oil. As he grabbed more power, he expelled American and western gas companies and investors, tortured and assassinated Libyan opposition. By 1980, the U.S. had severed all diplomatic ties.

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Gadhafi is an irresponsible animal who has no scruples. He has no morals.

MALVEAUX: In the early '80s, tension between the U.S. and Libya intensified.

RONALD REAGAN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: We know that this mad dog of the Middle East has a goal of a world revolution. Muslim fundamentalist revolution.

MALVEAUX: After years of miner skirmishes between U.S. and Libyan aircraft, Gadhafi turned into public enemy number one. Bombings in Rome, Vienna, and then a disco in West Berlin frequented by Americans, all linked to Libya. The U.S. retaliates.

REAGAN: At 7:00 this evening Eastern Time, Air and Naval forces of the United States launched a series of strikes against the headquarters terrorist facilities and military assets that support Moammar Gadhafi's subversive activities.

MALVEAUX: That attack left a hundred Libyans dead, including Gadhafi's daughter. Some believe, for revenge, Gadhafi responded with a bomb aboard Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, killing 270 people. The U.N. Security Council answered with crippling sanctions.

After years of refusing, in 1999 Gadhafi final relented, handing over the Lockerbie suspects. And following the September 11th attacks and the Iraq War, Gadhafi went even further. He took responsibility for the bombing and agreed to compensate the victims' families. The U.N. lifted sanctions. And that same year, Gadhafi abandoned his efforts to develop weapons of mass destruction.

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Colonel Gadhafi correctly judged that his country would be better off and far more secure without weapons of mass murder.

MALVEAUX: The U.S. eased travel restrictions and western oil companies returned. The U.S.'s close ally, Great Britain, took the lead.

TONY BLAIR, FORMER BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I am conscious of the pain that people who have suffered as a result of terrorist actions in the past must feel. But the world is changing.

MALVEAUX: In September 2008, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice met with Gadhafi in Libya. The first such meeting between Libya and a high U.S.-ranking official in more than half a century.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I thought he was serious. He said at one point that it has taken too long. That the lessons of history had to be learned.

MALVEAUX: But the very next year, with Great Britain's cooperation, Scotland released one of the Lockerbie bombers on humanitarian grounds, which sparked outrage. Scotland allowed the bomber, who was said to be terminally ill, to go home to Libya to die. But he is still alive today. His release has raised questions about if there was something else at play behind the deal, further complicating the thawing (ph) relationship between Libya and the west.

Now things have taken another turn as the Arab spring engulfs the Middle East. Gadhafi slaughters his own people to stay in power. NATO and the U.S. respond with air strikes. Now, the conflict could bring the end of Gadhafi's 42-year-old regime.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Well, now Gadhafi's regime is up against the wall. But if his forces are run out of Libya, what happens to the weapons? The stockpiles of guns, missiles, chemical weapons even. Well, Representative Mike Rogers, he's chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, he joins us now to try to make sense of a lot of this, to answer some of those questions.

And, Congressman, you know, you and I know, we've been watching, it's a very volatile region, you've got these dangerous stockpiles of weapons. What specific threat does this instability in Libya pose now for our security?

REP. MIKE ROGERS (R), MICHIGAN: Sure. Well, it's very real. These weapon systems are dangerous. They have -- he has literally thousands of anti-aircraft missiles, shoulder-fired missiles. He has about 25,000 pounds of mustard gas. Now there was a group there that was exterminating it or incinerating it, rather, and they ended up leaving because of the turmoil. We hope that they can get back and finish that job. But right now, those are in the hands of the Gadhafi regime, that mustard gas and other chemical precursors.

So you have all of this going on all at the same time. And my biggest fear is that once Gadhafi falls, you're going to have all of the adjustments that will happen when you have a revolution like this. You'll have tribal interests struggling for power. You'll have ethnic interests and political interests. Those weapon systems, that's the exact time that al Qaeda and others -- and we know that they're interested in these weapon systems -- are very eager to get their hands on them. And that's what concerns me most, and why it's in our national security interests to make sure that that doesn't happen.

MALVEAUX: Sure. And you've talked about that concern about al Qaeda. That perhaps they could take real advantage of a chaotic situation. Our Fareed Zakaria has a different take on this. I want you to listen to what he says about the threat of al Qaeda.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST, CNN'S "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": I don't see anything in the Libyan case that suggests that we should worry that there's going to be some kind of takeover by al Qaeda. They seem very few, very far between. We haven't heard much from them. And I think it says more about the kind of demons we worry about than anything on -- listen to the reporters on the ground. CNN has such good ones. None of them are detecting any great al Qaeda presence there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Congressman, what do you make of that? He doesn't really believe that al Qaeda is necessarily a threat.

ROGERS: Well, when I say al Qaeda in Libya, I don't mean to take over the government. They want those weapon systems to go off and leave Libya with those weapon systems. They're trying to get those weapon systems out of Libya for obviously nefarious purposes. That's why al Qaeda is a threat.

MALVEAUX: How do we know that? Sure. Sure. I mean you're in charge of intelligence --

ROGERS: We have very good intelligence -- that's right, we have very good intelligence that they're very interested. And they understand where there's chaos, there's opportunity. And they're not the only group. There's other groups that concern us that we know have communicated that they've been very interested in trying to get their hands on some of this equipment.

There's also open source reporting by other countries in northern Africa that have said, hey, some of these weapon systems we think are moving and are coming here and that worries them. So some notion that this is pie in the sky just is not reality. It's happening. In about two weeks, I argue, after the actual fall of Gadhafi, when he is brought to justice in some way, that's when all of the pressure is.

And, remember, the economy there is going to be pretty awful for some time.

MALVEAUX: Right.

ROGERS: And it is very tempting. These are very tempting things to try to sell for cash or other things. And that's what concerns me.

MALVEAUX: And real quick here -- sure, real quick here as well. There's been a lot of talk about the capability -- nuclear weapons -- the capability of the Gadhafi regime. We know that he has mustard gas. Do we know if he has kind of the -- a delivery system to actually use that mustard gas? Is he at that point?

ROGERS: Well, most of -- thankfully, most of it -- and, remember, we took the nuclear components of his program. We have them. We brought those to the United States in about 2004. Right after the invasion of Iraq, he picked up the phone and said, I don't want to be next. And he had a more sophisticated program than we realized. He had Sarin gas capability. We're not sure what status that's in. But he did dismantle a lot of the delivery systems for the mustard gas. We don't know if any is left, number one. And, number two, its real danger is not only its use in a delivery system, but as a terrorist weapon can be, as you might imagine, devastating.

MALVEAUX: All right. Congressman Rogers, thank you so much. Really appreciate your perspective.

You know, days of fighting inside Tripoli, but, you know, the big question, of course, where is Moammar Gadhafi? Could he be even hiding underneath the city? We're going to explore the tunnels of Tripoli.

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MALVEAUX: We're going to get some -- we're getting new video right now of some emotional reunions that were taking place. Hostages who were just freed from the Rixos Hotel in Libya. Journalists who had been held there for five days. You can just see the sense of relief, the tears, and the hugs as people have just left that hotel. It was so uncertain. Our own Matthew Chance was there and he told us the story about those journalists who were there. They were Gadhafi loyalists, armed men, who had basically -- holding them. Telling them that they could not leave.

There's -- I believe that's our own Matthew Chance on the phone there. Yes, it is. He's describing what had taken place. He might have even been on air there describing to us the ordeal. But just look at the smile on his face. It says it all, really. We're so pleased that they're all safe, that they're well, and still a very serious and dangerous story to tell.

The rebels, they are actually tightening their grip on Tripoli, but so far there is no sign of Libya's long-time leader Moammar Gadhafi. You know, some people believe that he could even be hiding underground. Others say that he could be right under our noses, hiding out right in that same hotel where dozens of foreign reporters were held for days by Gadhafi loyalists. It's still speculation. But Chad's here to walk us through some of these potential hideouts.

Chad, it's fascinating when you take a look at the ground and what's beneath the ground, yes?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, we know there are tunnels. We know there are some tunnels. We don't know how many. We know there are tunnels because western companies built some of them. We know there are big tunnels. Tunnels big enough to move trucks underground. So literally there could be an underground city between where our Matthew Chance was, the Rixos Hotel, and where Moammar Gadhafi's compound really was.

There's Libya. Go right into downtown Tripoli. And we'll go into the compound. Our Sara Sidner was right there. You saw it yesterday. It was the most dramatic pictures I've seen on CNN maybe since the first Gulf War. And she was right here. And now the people are in. The rebels are in the compound here.

Now, let me take you just one half mile away where Moammar Gadhafi was actually taped in one of the hotel rooms on one of his speeches that he made months ago. How did he get there? We didn't see him come in. we didn't see him come out.

Here's the Rixos Hotel. This Rixos Hotel was the premiere hotel. Let me tell you, this, years ago, you wanted a Porsche and you wanted a helicopter. Whatever you wanted, the people at the Rixos Hotel could get it for you. Now it's been a compound where the journalists have just been all kind of just wound up and held up. But we do know that on the backside of the Rixos Hotel there are loading docks. The loading docks have elevators that can take trucks and go below ground. Where they go after that, we don't know. So, simply, we've seen it. The people there at the hotel says it's there, but no one can tell you because at some point in time where the people have gone in, they have found big, metal doors without handles and no way to get any farther. We'll figure it out.

Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Yes, a big mystery. All right, Chad, thank you very much. Appreciate that.

Transit police in San Francisco may have been able to stop cell phones from working as a security measure. But it certainly hasn't stopped the protests.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We think that censorship affects everyone. That when BART shuts off cell service, that really is disturbing.

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MALVEAUX: San Francisco's transit agency is holding a public meeting today on whether or not there should be a policy on cutting wireless access to its stations during protests. Well, BART did that earlier this month to thwart a planned protest over a police shooting. The so-called hacktivist group Anonymous has organized a couple of demonstrations since then, including one Monday night. And several people were arrested at that protest. Our CNN Silicon Valley correspondent Dan Simon is joining us live.

Dan, tell us what's going on. What is the purpose of this meeting with BART?

DAN SIMON, CNN SILICON VALLEY CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a meeting that BART called, Bay Area Rapid Transit. They called this meeting to address some of the criticism head on. And this is an issue that just won't die down. There's been one protest after another. Dozens of people arrested. Websites hacked. And it all had to do when BART shut down the cell phone communication to thwart a protest.

Well, what did that do? It caused even more protests and it caused Anonymous to get involved. It hacked some websites. It has organized all these different demonstrations. And it's not often you get a chance to talk to somebody who's in anonymous. And I had a chance to talk to an organizer and I asked him why Anonymous has been so relentless at going after BART and here's what he told me.

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SIMON: What was the point they were trying to make by getting into the BART website and publishing some of that personal information?

PETER FEIN, "ANONYMOUS" ORGANIZER: Sure. The attitude on the part of Anonymous is that if you silence us, we will silence you. That's why they take down websites. And if you spy on us, we will spy on you. And that's, I think, what motivated those people.

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SIMON: And that guy you just heard from, Peter Fein, he wanted to make it clear that he himself has done nothing illegal. That he's not a hacker. But he is affiliated with this group.

And what Anonymous wants is a formal apology from BART and for BART to say that they'll never shut down cell phone communication again. We'll just have to see what happens. But BART itself has been facing, you know, a serious image problem.

MALVEAUX: Sure.

SIMON: There have been a couple of high-profile shootings involving its police officers. And we'll just see what happens here. But short of that apology, Anonymous says they're going to keep up the heat.

Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: And, really quickly, has there been any response from BART?

SIMON: Not yet. And we should point out that they do face, you know, some additional trouble here. The FCC is investigating their decision to turn off the cell phones and so we'll see what happens with that. And again, Anonymous planning even more protests. And, you know, we'll see what comes out of this meeting today, but I -- you probably won't see BART change their policy just yet. They've been pretty firm in their approach.

MALVEAUX: OK, Dan Simon, thank you.

Well, dodging bullets in Libya.

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SARA SIDNER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're have to run out of the compound now. We see gunfire coming from outside the compound and it's getting -- it's getting too close. So --

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MALVEAUX: CNN's Sara Sidner in the middle of the chaos. We're going to talk about the dangers facing reporters in the war zone.

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MALVEAUX: Western journalists, including CNN's Matthew Chance, were freed today from the hotel in Libya where they were held for five days. Well, Matthew described it as a nightmare for some. It's just one of the dangers of reporting from the war zone. Our CNN's Sara Sidner has been in the middle of all of this dodging the danger.

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SIDNER: Yes, it's getting a little bit too loud, so you might not even hear me. And a little bit too much (INAUDIBLE), but we're trying to get away from the -- just got hit a little bit with from one the -- one of the shells from one of those guns. We don't want to --

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Sara, we can hear you -- we can hear you just fine, but maybe you should take some cover here.

SIDNER: Yes. Yes. We're OK. Please don't shoot, sir.

We are in between two walls, so we're fine.

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MALVEAUX: At one point Sara and her crew did have to move to another location when that gunfire got too close.

Well, an earthquake causing some damage in parts of the East Coast. That happened yesterday. The late night comedians, they think they know what caused the tremor.

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MALVEAUX: So an earthquake hit the East Coast. So what caused it? Well, David Letterman says he knows the answer.

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DAVID LETTERMAN, "THE LATE SHOW" HOST: They traced the epicenter of the earthquake to Governor Chris Christie's aerobics class. They traced the epicenter of the earthquake to Kim Kardashian's honeymoon suite. You can tell the earthquake. I mean Donald Trump, you could see the ripples going through his hair. The undulations.