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Rick Perry Front-Runner Among Republican Presidential Candidates; Devastation in Vermont From Tropical Storm Irene; Many Stranded in Outer Banks of North Carolina

Aired August 29, 2011 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: So there's going to be a back and forth. There's no doubt about that. But when you're the governor of a major state like Texas, and you constantly get re-elected -- he did well with Hispanic voters in Texas last time around, he had some stiff challenges -- you know, you're going to be noticed.

He's got personality. People like him, or some of them don't hike him. So he's doing well right now, and we'll see how he does in the weeks and months to come.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, certainly a little bit of time left between now and the election.

Wolf Blitzer, thank you for --

BLITZER: I just want to say, plenty of time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- time to recover from a storm of this magnitude, the effects are still being felt across much of the country, including in New England and states like Vermont, where there's been an enormous amount of flooding. So our response continues, but I'm going to make sure that FEMA and other agencies are doing everything in their power to help people on the ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: That's President Obama speaking just a short time ago. It was just after he declared an emergency for Vermont in the aftermath of Irene.

Today, people all along the Eastern Seaboard, into New England and even Canada, still dealing with what the storm left behind -- water, lots of it. Vermont really seems to have gotten the worst of the flooding.

Check out this video from one of our iReporters in Lincoln Vermont. Take a look there. You can see the rushing water, which has knocked more than a few buildings off their foundations. Towns across the state are under water.

And now take a look at what Irene did to one of the state's treasures, a covered bridge that has stood for more than 140 years. Watch it crumble there, pushed around like it's made out of popsicle sticks. Gone.

And here's the biggest impact of Irene. The storm is being blamed for 24 deaths in nine states. And then, of course, there's the price tag, expected to be around $10 billion for the disaster.

Take a look at this amazing video shot by one of our iReporters in Manville, New Jersey. These military vehicles were actually heading out to help people who were stranded, stuck in the flood zone. They can normally make it across rivers, but this time, as you can see, they didn't have much like. The water was just too much and they got stuck.

And the water isn't necessarily going anywhere. These are pictures from just a little while ago in Lumberton, New Jersey. That's not far from Philadelphia. You can see what people there are dealing with -- lots of water.

Millions of people still without power for a second straight day. Fleets of repair vehicles have descended on the affected areas to help try and get that power back on.

Last hour, I talked with the governor of Vermont, Peter Shumlin. He told me the National Guard is on the way with high-water vehicles to rescue people trapped by the flooding, but he also said there are hundreds of others that they just cannot reach. Creeks, brooks and rivers have swelled to levels unseen in 70 years.

Our Gary Tuchman is in one of those hard-hit communities, where a seemingly harmless brook has caused some pretty major damage.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This place of business in Brattleboro, Vermont, in southern Vermont, was condemned on Monday afternoon. The reason it was condemned is because what happened here and what was a very gentle brook before Tropical Storm Irene moved through Vermont.

It is now a rapids. Powerful water came through here, expanded this from 10 feet wide to about 40 feet wide, eroded the ground. The energy basically exploded the land here, and you can see this building, which was an art studio -- 15 artists, sculptors, painters, a yoga instructor -- their office building is now hanging precariously over what was the Whetstone Brook. The Whetstone Brook, just a couple of days ago children were swimming in it.

It was actually a swimming hole right here. For generations, children have swum in it. Old timers tell us they've never seen anything like this, and this is all from the power of the storm.

They knew that Tropical Storm Irene, or possibly maybe even Hurricane Irene would come through Vermont, but no one anticipated the devastation here. More than 260 roads in this state were under water. Most of the floodwaters have receded. As you can see, the brooks, which were just overflowing with water, many of them still look like rapids. And it's caused mud to go into people's homes. There's lots of damage, and at least one person died from it.

That's about 15 miles west of here. A woman somehow ended up in a creek, and her body was recovered earlier today.

A very sad situation here at Vermont. It's an interior state, it borders Canada, it's known for skiing and its mountains. It's not known for its tropical storms. But they've experienced the fury of Tropical Storm Irene.

This is Gary Tuchman, CNN, in Brattleboro, Vermont.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: And one of the other major effects of the storm has actually been on travel. But today, much of the travel tangle is being smoothed out with trains and planes back in service. That doesn't mean, though, that the travel headaches are exactly over.

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAYE: Well, we've only shown you a fraction of the great video and the pictures that a lot of you sent us, our iReporters. Thank you for those.

So be sure to log on to CNN.com for more images and information on Irene's effects. Plus, you can check out how you can impact your world and help those devastated by the storm. You can find it all at CNN.com.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Hurricane Irene left a path of destruction from North Carolina to Maine. Many people still recovering from the damage.

In North Carolina, as many as 2,500 people are still stranded in the Outer Banks. The road along a narrow strip of land connecting them to the mainland has been wiped out.

CNN's Brian Todd rode along with a National Guard chopper to take a look at the situation there, and Brian joins us now from Stumpy Point, North Carolina.

Brian, what is the situation for these folks?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Randi, many of them are still stranded, but there is a lifeline, and you're looking at it behind me. I'm going to take a walk back a little bit. Our photojournalist, Oliver Dandy (ph), is going to follow me.

This is the Stumpy Point Ferry. This is really the only way that people in Hatteras Island are getting supplies, highway repair equipment, food, water, things like that. Even some doctors have been kind of shuttled back and forth if people have a need.

They just pulled this in a short time ago. They're going to be loading vehicles on to this ferry shortly.

We're told that they leave here about every two to three hours. And it takes two-and-a-half hours each way for this ferry to go to Hatteras Island and back with supplies. That's the only way they're getting them right now. The only other way to get to Hatteras Island is by helicopter.

We went there with the North Carolina National Guard yesterday to check out some of the damage. The most serious piece of damage is that breach on Highway 12 which connects Hatteras Island to the other islands of the Outer Banks, right at the town of Rodanthe. That part of Highway 12 has just been decimated by Irene's storm surge.

It was chopped up, waters from the Atlantic Ocean is completely flowing over it. There are downed power lines there. Part of the road just seemed to have caved in as if it had been hit by an earthquake.

Given that and the risks, and the fact that the 2,500 people there ignored the governor's mandatory evacuation order and never left here, we asked one of the residents kind of what the philosophy was about staying versus going.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD: What's the philosophy? Why do people like you stay through this?

MATTHEW WILLIAMS, HATTERAS ISLAND RESIDENT: Again, I'm going to guess. I don't know.

You know, we grew up here. That's the main thing is getting back. When you're gone, you're wondering what -- your belongings, your property, you're wondering how it is. You know, it's your whole life here, so it's kind of hard to leave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TODD: Now, other residents told us that at the same time, they thought they could ride this out because of the degree of the storm. These are people who are used to going through hurricanes.

Another gentleman who lives on Hatteras Island said, look, this is a Category 1, we've lived through much worse, 2, 3, and 4 level hurricanes. But he said -- he did admit that the flooding from this particular hurricane was worse than they ever imagined -- Randi.

KAYE: And Brian, just very quickly, we do have to get going here, but how long can they stay there in case they can't rescue them very quickly? TODD: They were told to have enough food and water for three days. Now, that period is almost ending. Some of them have food and water for longer.

But the governor is now saying, you might need it for as long as two months. And this is a slow boat, getting food and supplies there. So some of these people may have a tough road to hoe for a while.

KAYE: Wow. Two months.

All right. Brian Todd, appreciate your reporting. Thank you.

And this is what families are dealing with in towns throughout upstate New York, and it is destroying the only way out for a number of families. We'll tell you where this is all happening. We'll bring you the very latest, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: The powerful floodwaters from Irene have washed out hundreds of roads and bridges in a number of states. For many families in upstate New York the flood has actually washed away their only way out, destroying roads and bridges into and out of several towns there.

This is video that we're getting in from the area. You can see just how bad the flooding is right now. Look at that water rushing.

Seven families who thought they were escaping Irene are now stranded in New York's Catskill Mountains. Among them are two pregnant women, seven toddlers, and three babies. They are still stuck in a vacation home with no electricity, no water, and they say their food supply will run out today.

But that's not all. New York Governor Andrew Cuomo took a tour of the area this morning. County administrators estimate the volume of water coming off of the Catskill mountaintops is exceeding the flow from Niagara Falls. Exceeding that.

Megan Cruz from our affiliate YNN is in Prattsville, New York, which is near the base of the Catskill Mountains. The town is one of the hardest-hit areas. She's on the line with us.

Megan, first of all, we understand that the two main routes, both bridges in and out of the town, are badly damaged. Are residents and emergency crews able to get in and out some other way?

MEGAN CRUZ, REPORTER, YNN: Hi there.

Yes. I mean, it's not that they can't get into town. Right now there are, like you said, two bridges that go in and out of this main town. And one of them, no one is being allowed near it at this point.

Even myself and my photographer, we have crossed it at one point to get into the town, had left to go back to our livestock, and we were turned away when we tried to pass there again because they're really worried that it might collapse at any point. So, for that entrance into the town, no one is being allowed near there.

There is one other way. You have to go around quite a bit of a drive. It's probably about 10 miles, but then you come to another bridge, and it seems like that they're even concerned about, because we were being brought had via an ATV, because, really, they don't want too big vehicles crossing it as well. And they actually asked us on the ATV to stay a little bit more to the left side of the bridge, because I think they're concerned about the stability of the right side.

KAYE: So, with access so limited, what does that mean for rescue efforts and emergency crews?

CRUZ: It does delay it, like I said. I think most of the, like you said, rescue crews are on the other side where the bridge -- no one can cross. So it does delay them, because they have to go all the way around. But they are getting in among the main street of Prattsville right now, and it's bustling, but like I was saying to someone before, not like you'd want it or expect it to be.

You do see ATVs with fire officials, emergency management. National Guard has actually arrived this afternoon. That's what you see on the main street. And like I said, only delayed, but there are efforts being made to help this town recover.

KAYE: And you and your photographer, I understand, you guys actually got stranded, right, and had to spend the night in a shelter there?

CRUZ: Yes, we did. We had to stay at a Red Cross shelter in a town just -- one town over, five miles out of Prattsville.

And we were there in Prattsville earlier when a flood first started happening yesterday. I'm telling you, the water, it's like an established community wasn't even there. That's how bad it was. It was all under water.

So when we were tried to figure out how we were going to get out, everybody laughed at us. Honestly, when we were at the Red Cross center, there was like -- they said there is no way out. All of the surrounding roads are flooded.

And the power is out, so it's too dangerous to drive. So we decided to stay at the Red Cross shelter and come here again this morning.

KAYE: Well, that was probably a smart move. Play it safe, like many suggested.

Megan Cruz with affiliate YNN.

Appreciate your time. Thank you very much.

CRUZ: Thank you. Thank you.

KAYE: Well, the U.S. could lose an important tool for predicting storms just like Hurricane Irene. We'll tell you why right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Breaking news now. Let's bring to you the White House press conference taking place right now -- the White House briefing.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He held that position until President Obama asked him to lead FEMA. He is here to take your questions and give you an update on Hurricane Irene and its consequences.

So why don't we have Mr. Fugate make a few points, take your questions on all issues related to Irene, and then I will take your questions on other issues.

Thanks very much.

CRAIG FUGATE, DIRECTOR, FEMA: Well, good afternoon.

I think, first, our condolences for the families who have lost loved ones. Unfortunately, Irene was a deadly storm. Reports are still coming in. I think open source, I perceived in the media about 21. We also know that there are several people still missing.

And one of the things about these types of storms we know, unfortunately, the death toll may continue to go up in the recovery phase through accidents and other things that happen. This has been my experience from Florida, where, again, as we urge people to use common sense and be cautious, don't drive through flooded areas, we've got a lot of power lines down. And as crews are re-energizing, again, be very careful. We don't want any more people to lose their lives.

But to the families that have lost ones, our condolences and are prayers are with them.

Tropical Storm Irene dissipated and moved into Canada. But in its path as a hurricane we started out in the Virgin Islands of Puerto Rico, which most of the damage is from Puerto Rico. The president has declared Puerto Rico a major disaster area. We are providing assistance there.

And then our attention turned to the Carolinas, as the storm began moving towards the East Coast. Prior to the arrival of Hurricane Irene, we had what we call an instant management team. These are federal employees of FEMA that are trained to go in, link up with the state prior to the storm getting there, so that we are prepared to support them both in the preparation phase, but also in the immediate response phase.

Eighteen of those teams deployed across the East Coast, as far south as Florida, all the way up to Maine. And again, as we saw the track of the storm adjust, we repositioned teams and we became increasingly concerned about possible impacts in the New England states. We put liaisons into those states as the storm moved north.

We propositioned water, food, generators, tarps and other supplies in incident staging bases based along the path of the storm. We were sitting ready to activate our urban search and rescue teams. We put our teams on alert.

Three of those teams have actually been now activated, on standby and support in New York and in Vermont, based upon the flooding there. But again, a lot of the rescue operations are being conducted by state and local officials, National Guard, men and women that were called out by their governors, Coast Guard and other rescue officials in those areas.

As it stands now, we are still supporting in North Carolina requests for assistance as they go to the recovery phase and begin damage assessments. A lot of power outages. Roads that were heavily damaged by storm surge, particularly in the Outer Banks, as well as a lot of debris in the eastern part of the state.

As you move up the coastline, I'm sure you're all aware of the large number of power outages. Those numbers have come down since yesterday. The Department of Energy is working with the private sector as they track those numbers, but we went from over six million down to five million.

And again, those numbers look to continue to come down. But some areas are going to have some time to get all of the power back up.

But probably the real story was, as Irene was exiting and many people were focused along the coast, we did get some impacts of coastal storm surge, but not to the degree that we were concerned about. But heavy rain did a occur along the interior parts of path.

That was a big concern we had as the storm moved north. And so we have seen record flooding in Vermont, record flooding in New York. We still have rivers that have yet to crest.

The river forecast center for the Northeast was reporting that some of these rivers may not crest for two to three days. So the extent of impacts we still won't know.

But again, many of these areas have been dealing with very dangerous flooding. Some of it has resulted in the loss of life.

To give you some idea of how fast this occurred, the rivers and the flooding were so intense, that the Vermont Emergency Operation Center, their state emergency operation center, had to evacuate last night and relocate. We had already been working disasters in Vermont, so we had a joint field office that they were able to relocate to. And so they were able to continue their operations after moving, but they did experience damages, and they are working to get their center back up.

But again, from a storm that I think from a lot of folks on the coastal areas, also showed that inland, the heavy rains produced quite a bit of damages and are continuing to produce damages. So we're working with the governors now as they begin the assessment.

The question I've been getting a lot is, how much damage? We don't know. We're still assessing. A lot of the states are just finishing their response operations or beginning that, particularly the further south you are, as you move north. But in Vermont and in New York, they're very actively still engaged in response operations, as well as Massachusetts and New Jersey, which are also experiencing flooding, New Hampshire and Maine.

So with that I'm open for questions.

QUESTION: Do you have any figures to attach to the damage yet? Any idea how much the storm will cost?

FUGATE: No. And I don't really estimate.

I don't like to give estimates because one of the things you're looking at is a lot of power outages. You see a lot of damages that are not going to be covered by federal dollars.

We don't cover insurance losses. So some of the numbers you'll get from, like, insurance industry projections, or actually what their exposure will be. Those won't translate into what the federal costs will be.

So this will be -- we do formal damage assessments with the states. We go in and look at those things that would be the responsibility of state and local government. We look at those damages. We look primarily at the uninsured losses.

So until we actually get out there and do damage assessments, we won't have numbers. But also understand, that's not the total dollar figure. So you'll get lots of impacts.

You're also going to have significant agricultural impacts in North Carolina and other states. And so, the USDA will be working with the state ag commissioners as they compile those costs. So the total dollar figure is actually from several different sources. What we will report will be the damages that would be eligible determine is there was a presidential disaster declaration for major reimbursement assistance.

QUESTION: What's the total number without power?

FUGATE: The total number -- and again, this number is fluctuating and it's coming down. But the Department of Energy at our 12:30 conference call was reporting a little over five million.

And that number had come down from a number that was a little over six million. But Department of Energy is tracking that very closely, working with the states and utilities and putting that number together as it changes through the days.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

FUGATE: No, we knew they were in the area of heavy rainfall. And this is one thing that Director Bill Read was trying to get people not to focus, just on the center circulation or on the coast. The heavy rainfall, particularly that this storm had a lot of rain ahead of it as it's moving ashore, the concern was where we could expect rainfall. In fact, if you went back to the Hydromet (p) Prediction Center, they were putting out forecasts of these types of measures that we could see as far as rainfall.

So, it was something we were expecting, but the reality is, with flash flooding, much of this occurred very quickly. In fact, in many of these rivers in Vermont, they've already gone back down. It was just a very quick response rate from the rain, the flooding. And now we're looking at the damages.

QUESTION: What happened to the winds in New York?

FUGATE: I don't have any specifics right now.

QUESTION: Given that this is the anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, and you've talked about some of the lessons of Hurricane Katrina, can you speak specifically about what was learned then that helped you and the federal government to be better prepared for Hurricane Irene?

FUGATE: Well, you've got to give credit to Congress who, one, passed the post-Katrina Emergency Reform Act that clarified and gave clarity to FEMA's mission, but also cleared up some issues that were considered issues. Should we wait until a governor has exceeded all of their resources to then ask for federal assistance? And at that point, do we respond? Or are we able to get things going earlier, not wait for that declaration, without waiting for the state to be overwhelmed to get ready?

And this is, I think -- one of the keys we've learned is, when we know there's a disaster that could occur -- and, again, we're working off that forecast -- is not to wait until the state says we're going to need help.

Farthest (ph) by getting our teams into the states, with the counterparts of the governor's team working early, not only are we there in case they need our help, we have a better idea what to anticipate, and we have built that team so if we do have the impacts, we can go right to work.

That as well as the ability to pre-position resources, move them into areas before the states make formal requests, a lot of this was the mechanics we learned from Katrina. But I think some of the other things that was directed in the legislation was we need today look beyond just what FEMA's role is, that we're not the team but part of the team.

We really had to look at things, such as how do you better integrate the volunteers and the NGOs and their capabilities, as well as to private sector?

I mean, I was in Florida during a lot of hurricanes and, quite honestly, when you get to the point where you find yourself setting up distribution points in the parking lot of an open grocery store, because they brought a generator in, brought in emergency crews and got their store open, but you weren't talking, I could have probably gone where there was a greater need.

So right now, one of the things we've done in this administration is we've brought the private sector into FEMA's headquarters. We have a representative on a rotating basis in the private sector representing them. So we work as a team.

And so right now, we're getting reports of stores opening, first in Puerto Rico, when the initial storm hit. You know, look at the big box stores that were able to get open.

Had a better sense that a lot of the things that we were concerned about, the private sector was able to get up and running, so we could focus on the areas that were flooded, mainly smaller towns and communities and the more mountainous areas of Puerto Rico.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And six years ago today, when Katrina came ashore, FEMA's reputation was not enhanced by the operation. All right? There's one single lesson from Katrina that has kind of reshaped FEMA and their response to this?

FUGATE: We can't wait to know how bad it is before we get ready. We have to go fast. We have to base it upon the potential impacts. That's why we look at these forecasts we get from the hurricane center. And we make decisions based upon what the potential impasse could be. If you wait till you know how bad it is, it becomes harder to change the outcome.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And how good was the forecast? Did you expect Hurricane Irene to be what she turned out to be? Was the forecasting good enough?

FUGATE: The track of the forecast, I think they've looked back and their -- the National Hurricane Center will give you that update of what they saw. But I think the track was only about 10 miles off of where they actually thought it was going to come ashore.

But the intensity of the wind speed -- but that's something, I'm going to -- I'll be honest with you folks. Of all the things we know about hurricanes, the track forecast, we have the greatest -- we've seen the response has really improved that, in my career, to where if this had been 10 to 15 years ago, Florida would have had to evacuate, based upon this track.

You remember seeing the satellite, how big that storm was and how close it was to the state of Florida? We would not have been able to not evacuate. But the size is that good on track. But where we know we still have a lot of work to do is intensely forecast what goes up and goes down.

Remember Hurricane Charley in Florida? It went from a Category 1 in Cuba, crossing over, it became a Category 4 in less than 24 hours. We've seen a lot of these storms, that the smaller storms, rapid intensification. We also see storms that weaken. And that is an area that, that skill, we still need to work on. But based upon the forecasts, that's what we prepare for.

QUESTION: Can you correct (ph) scenarios? Does Vermont need more federal resources?

FUGATE: Again, the response phase -- and we were talking to the -- I -- we have a conference call each day with all of the state directors that are impacted. The state director reported they have what they need.

They're beginning to look at their damage assessments, and it is likely we'll be doing assessments with them to determine if they're going to need more assistance to recover. But in the response phase, they advised us they had what they needed, and appreciate the fact that we had resources standing by.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: April (ph)?

APRIL (?): Mr. Fugate, since you worked on Katrina six years ago, and this hurricane, what did you personally see the differences? Has the red tape actually been cut enough where you felt easy to be able to maneuver, to get assistance to people this hurricane versus Katrina?

FUGATE: You know, you talk about the processes and a lot of the mechanics behind it. I think in this administration, from my earliest events when I came on board, America Samoa (sic), supporting USAID in Haiti, the floods in Tennessee and, obviously this year, the one thing that's been impressed upon me by the president is, we go as a federal team, and we bring all our resources together.

I think there's a lot of things that, when we do it as a team -- and we understand that you cannot have separate -- you can't look at local government, state government, federal government, the volunteers and the private sector as distinct entities and be successful. You got to look as a team.

And so one of the things that's been impressed upon me, and the thing that we've learned and try to practice here is we're not a team. We're part of a team. We have to bring all of our -- all of our resources together.

We have to work as a team. We have to be focused on the survivors -- and the emphasis on speed, to get there, get stabilized, to figure out what's the next steps or without waiting to ask all the questions.

Well, how bad is it? What do you need? We know generally, in these types of events, what most likely is going to be required. Let's get moving. If we don't need it, we can turn it off. But you don't get time back in a disaster.

Look at what was happening in Katrina and the first 72 hours, that once you got past that point, there was not much more you could do to change that outcome. And then things were just cascading one on top of the other.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, would you say that six years ago people were working as a team?

FUGATE: I think there was a lot of things that the federal level, that Congress addressed in the post-Katrina emergency management format, and certainly made my job easier to work in that team environment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible)?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have a better (ph) figure on the (inaudible)?

FUGATE: No, not today. I think earlier in the week. We had gone below a billion dollars and we're around 900. And I'm not sure what today's figure is. But that's one of the reasons why we implemented immediate needs funding, was to preserve funding for the existing disasters.

This is one thing I want to make clear. We said we went to immediate needs funding and a lot of people thought, well, the people that have been impacted by the tornadoes and floods were going to take that money away from them.

The survivors that are eligible for assistance are still getting funds. Individual assistance programs were not affected by this, nor was any protective measures or any debris clearance or any project that had already been approved.

The only thing that we have postponed is new projects that are permanent work, that had not been started when we go into immediate needs funding. And that is to ensure that we still have funds to do this response, continue to meet the needs of the survivors of the previous disasters, as well as supporting the initial response to Hurricane Irene.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So the criticism from out of Missouri is inaccurate?

FUGATE: Well, again, for the individuals that we're helping, for the cleanup and for the emergency costs, we're continuing that. But for any projects that have not come in for approval, we're not going to be able to fund those at this point. We're going to postpone those. They're still eligible.

But we won't be able to start new permanent work, such as permanent construction, repairing damages from those tornadoes.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: And there you have it, FEMA's Craig Fugate speaking there, answering reporters' questions at the White House briefing today. He's saying that the Vermont emergency management team actually had to relocate.

We've been showing you all afternoon the major flooding there in Vermont. Record flooding in Vermont, he says, and New York. He asks -- he was asked about the lessons learned from Katrina, and I'll leave you with this. He said you can't wait to know how bad before you actually get ready. That was the key lesson learned.

Meanwhile, coming up, Libyan rebels are still hunting for Moammar Gadhafi, but we now know the location of some of his family members. The Algerian news agency says Gadhafi's wife, Safiya, his daughter, Ayesha, and sons, Hannibal and Muhammad, along with their children, crossed into Algeria from Libya today.

Another key development, the discovery of the Libyan man convicted of Pan Am bombing Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, an attack that killed 270 people, we'll have all of this for you, including our Nic Robertson live, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Libyan rebels are still hunting for Moammar Gadhafi. But we now know the location of some of his family members. The Algerian news agency says Gadhafi's wife, his daughter and sons, Hannibal and Muhammad, along with their children, crossed into Algeria from Libya today.

Another key development, the discovery of the Libyan man convicted of bombing Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, an attack that killed 270 people. He was found by CNN's Nic Robertson. Here's Nic's exclusive report.

NIC ROBERTSON,CNN REPORTER (voice-over): We found Abdel Baset al- Megrahi's villa in an up-market part of town, at least six security cameras and flood lights outside.

ROBERTSON: This is Megrahi's house. This is where he's been living for the last couple of years. We're going to knock on the door, see if we can get any answer.

Hello?

ROBERTSON (voice-over): For 15 minutes or so, nothing.

ROBERTSON: I'm not sure if they've heard me. So let's try the last- ditch means, which is shout over the wall. Hello? Hello? Hello?

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Then all of a sudden someone comes. Nothing prepares me for what I see: Megrahi apparently in a coma, his aging mother at his side.

HAJJA FATMA ALI AL-ARAIBI (through translator): We just give him oxygen and --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doesn't -- nobody give us (inaudible), and some food by injection (ph).

If you see, his body is weak.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): He had been expected to die almost two years ago. But convicted Pan Am 103 bomber, Abdel Baset al-Megrahi, lives, only just (ph).

This wasn't the way he looked when he was released from a Scottish jail two years ago. He came home to a hero's welcome, freed on compassionate grounds, because doctors said he'd be dead in three months.

Almost immediately, he began renovating this palatial house; money, no object.

ROBERTSON: It doesn't take long walking around this building before you begin to realize -- and looking at the marble here on these expensive fittings -- to realize that it appears Megrahi was being paid off handsomely for all those years he spent in jail.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): In the two decades since the bomb exploded on board Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie, killing 270 passengers, crew and townspeople, it seemed the secrets of the attack would die with the bombers.

Megrahi always maintained he was innocent. Just a month ago in a rare public sighting, Moammar Gadhafi had him literally wheeled out for a pro-government rally. I'm seeing here now, for the first time in two years, he appears to be just a shell of the man he was, far sicker than he appeared before.

ROBERTSON: Has he been able to see a doctor?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. There is no doctor. There is nobody to ask, and we don't have any phone line to call anybody.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible).

ROBERTSON: What's his situation right now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He stop eating and he sometimes is come in coma.

ROBERTSON: Coma. He goes unconscious?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. We just sit next to him and...

ROBERTSON (voice-over): All that's keeping him alive, they say, oxygen and a fluids drip. I asked about demands he return to jail in Scotland.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My dad, he's still in the house, and if you send -- and if you send him to Scotland, he will die by the way, here or there.

ROBERTSON: Do you know how long he has left?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody can know how long he will stay alive. Nobody know.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): It seems I have arrived too late. He's apparently in no state to talk. Whatever secrets he has may soon be gone.

KAYE: Nic Robertson joins us now from Tripoli.

Nic, incredible reporting. My first question to you, is there any chance that al-Megrahi could be sent back to Scotland?

ROBERTSON: Well, it seems unlikely now, because the Scottish first minister, Alex Salmond, has actually seen this videotape and has said that he is not breaking -- Megrahi is not breaking the conditions of his release, that he would be confined to his house. But he is a very sick man, that he is going to be dead soon. So it seems like the Scottish at least are dropping their demand.

KAYE: And why is the rebel leadership so adamant about not handing him over to the west?

ROBERTSON: They're not saying specifically, other than they don't have an extradition treaty.

However, there may be another reason, and that is that Megrahi is from a very powerful and important tribe. And that's why Moammar Gadhafi put in so much effort to bring him back to Libya, to get him freed from jail, because Gadhafi himself needed and continued to need the support of that tribe.

So now the National Transitional Council also won the support of Megrahi's tribe. And by not extraditing him, they hope to be able to win this tribe over, perhaps to support them, to help build their government.

There's a lot of politics going on in the country at the moment. The National Transitional Council has got to convince a lot of tribes in the south to team up with them and form a new government, and Megrahi's tribe is an important one of those tribes.

Randi?

KAYE: Nic, just very, very quickly on the other news today, that Gadhafi's family has crossed over into Algeria, what is the very latest on that?

ROBERTSON: Well, National Transitional Council says they want the family back so that they can stand a fair trial in Libya. They say that they haven't heard this officially yet about the crossing from the Algerians.

Indeed, interest in the Algerians do not -- do not see the National Transitional Council as being the legitimate representatives in Libya. They still see Gadhafi as ruling Libya. However, what the National Transitional Council is saying is, that if the Algerians don't hand them back, that they will see this as an aggression, they say, against the will of the Libyan people.

Randi?

KAYE: Nic Robertson, once again, congratulations on that great get there in Libya. Thank you very much.

Blindfolded and beaten by Gadhafi forces, and then the promise of freedom, but that's not exactly what happened. The horrifying outcome, as our exclusive reporting continues, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Libya rebels still haven't found Moammar Gadhafi. But thousands of rebel fighters have massed on the outskirts of Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte. They've warned loyalist forces to surrender today, or they'll take the city by force.

As the rebels push ahead in their campaign to gain control of all of Libya, we have new reports of how brutal this war has been. In an exclusive report, CNN's Arwa Damon tells us what happened to scores of Libyans, recently captured by loyalist forces. We have to warn you: some of the images are very graphic.

ARWA DAMON, CNN REPORTER (voice-over): They heard screams, gunshots. But it would be days before people discovered the magnitude of the horror within these walls. Muneer Own was picked up by Gadhafi's forces, along with his younger brother in early August.

"My brother and I were in the street. They grabbed us and blindfolded and cuffed us," he remembers. The detainees ranged in age from 17 to 70, Muneer says. They were beaten, penned up like animals, and in their last days, deprived of food and water. He says he survived by dreaming of freedom, "that one day I would leave this place."

Early last week, he thought that day had come. "The last day, they informed us that they are going to release us. We all started planning," he says, "preparing to reunite with loved ones."

DAMON: This warehouse is around 15 by 10 meters, 45 by 30 feet, and Muneer says there were 175 people crammed inside here. At sunset, he says, the guards came and opened the door. He and the other prisoners thought they were going to make good on their word and set them free.

DAMON (voice-over): Instead, he says, the soldiers threw a grenade through the door and opened fire. Muneer made a run for it.

"I ran away. I jumped over that wall. But I don't remember anything else."

Though he survived, his younger brother and most of the others trapped in this hell did not. The warehouse is located in a lot on the back end of Khamis Gadhafi's 32nd Brigade headquarters, the most feared and loathed unit of his father's military.

When rebels finally secured the area, and people felt safe enough to approach the warehouse, this was all they found. Volunteer workers say they've pulled out the remains of at least 150 bodies.

RASHIR OMM: Some of the bag are more than one body. Some of them four. Three in one bag.

DAMON: Because the bodies, you can't -- you can't recognize the bodies?

RASHIR OWN (ph): It's difficult. But they are burned. We can't recognize them. So we have some papers, we can't...

DAMON (voice-over): The I.D.'s of people from all over Libya.

DAMON: Do you know why these men who were here were detained?

RASHIR OWN (ph): They were detained for -- some of them for nothing, just to say Gadhafi (inaudible), or just to raise the flag, the new flag with the different -- new color, different color, the green -- not the green flag, this one.

DAMON (voice-over): And in another corner of the lot, the people who have gathered report yet another atrocity.

DAMON: We're being told that a number of bodies were also dug up right here, and the dirt, it's just -- it's filled -- it's crawling with maggots.

DAMON (voice-over): The cost of freedom in Libya: many of the victims will remain unknown, their families left without answers to their fate. Arwa Damon, CNN, (inaudible), Libya.

KAYE: We'll have more news after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Check out this dramatic video from Vermont. I want to show you specifically here what's going to happen to that bridge. There it is. It goes right down. It's now underwater.

The state is experiencing some of the worst flooding in 84 years. Powerful floodwaters are washing out and destroying bridges like that one, buildings and roads.

To bring us the very latest from Vermont, Peter Coffey, the deputy director of Vermont's Office of Emergency Management, joining us from Burlington, Vermont.

Peter, can you tell us what the situation is like there right now? Are the water levels actually receding?

PETER COFFEY, VERMONT EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT: Yes, they are. We have two rivers that actually have not crested yet. They should be any time now, and we don't expect any more flooding from those. All the other rivers are receding.

KAYE: And how are the rescue efforts going? We understand that there was one young woman who lost her life by wading into that area, and was swept away. Can you update us on the rescue efforts there?

COFFEY: We actually now have two confirmed fatalities, and we do have one individual that is missing and they haven't been able to find that person yet. So we have many people that are isolated, communities are isolated just because roads are washed out all around them.

We do -- we've Vermont National Guard helicopters doing flyovers, just to get some assessments of where we may need them. We have a state and a federal search-and-rescue team that have been deployed to, actually, this section of the state where the person is missing, to perform search operations.

KAYE: What were the circumstances of that second fatality? Did that also have to do with the floodwaters?

COFFEY: I am not quite sure of that. I just got the word from the state police a little bit ago, that there was -- that they had found a second person.

KAYE: I'm not sure if you had a chance to catch the FEMA Administrator, Craig Fugate, speaking at the White House briefing just a short time ago, but he had said that they are taking some more damage assessments in Vermont, and whatever federal resources might be needed, they will supply. What is it that you need? Or do you feel as though you have everything that you do need?

COFFEY: We're feeling right now that we have everything that we do need. We have put out a request for more helicopters from New Hampshire. They should be arriving in the morning, so we can utilize them, and that's just to get that overhead surveillance.

We also have medevac helicopters on standby for -- in case there's a medical emergency and for some of these people that are isolated.

KAYE: What do you want residents there to know right now?

COFFEY: We -- that if they have damage that they need to 2-1-1 so that we can get -- start the assessment on that damage. And if they are in danger, they need to call 9-1-1 so that we can get rescue personnel there.

KAYE: And the biggest challenge that you're facing today?

COFFEY: I think the biggest challenge today for us is we had to evacuate an emergency operations center overnight. And the entire state computer system is down. So we're back to pencil and paper like we did years ago. It's working fine for us.

But we've relocated, because FEMA already had a joint field office set up in Burlington, from flooding that we had in the spring. So they have graciously hosted us here, and it looks like we will be here for a while.

KAYE: Yes, it sounds like you will be there for a while, and certainly looking at -- looking at that floodwater, it's going to take a while to clean that up. We appreciate your time, Peter Coffey, wish you the best of luck in your recovery and your rescue efforts there. Thank you.

And that will do it for me today. CNN Newsroom continues right now, though, with Brooke Baldwin.

Hi, there, Brooke.